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Military and Morality

Ron du Preez

Hosting its seventh annual conference, GYC's 2008 theme this was "For This Purpose." How do we find this purpose? By listening to and studying God's Word. Featuring inspirational speakers such as Justin Kim, Randy Skeete, Radim Passer, Chelsy Jourdan, Alistair Huong, Doug Batchelor, and more, this conference leads us in studying how we can reflect Christ's character.



  • December 18, 2008
    3:45 PM
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him of all mankind the allure of life Redeemer restorer holy father we come before you not right now thank you for being such a wonderful guy bless us during this session as we dig into a radical talk a topic that divides families a topic that causes lots of consternation and conflict Lord help us to approach a primary Bible -based Christ centered practical perspective so that the day instead of just chic we can help to shed light on the subject so we can be kind and loving people in Jesus name we pray amen the military angle relative to start with our interview on the general question how many who has been in the military are in the military have a close friend close friend or relative who is or has been in the military raise and demonstrates how to get a quick overview and at like seventy percent of your objects that's the first question secondly second including yes I'm not talking here in a vacuum folks why do I say that things have happened to me one I have gone through a transition and change a transformation in my own perspective on this issue why I have to be faithful to the weight of biblical evidence to go to the argument applicable requirements of the fuzziness unifies it was there but you don't when you studied older old friend of the sculptures it becomes clear altogether so we looking at the Waco biblical evidence so I got to have go through a transformation or translation I change my thinking because of that object number two no I don't have anybody in my immediate family that I know who's been in the military I grew up in South Africa but in a I just see if I had the opportunity I'm not saying the privilege of hunting the opportunity I was called on that faith and a delivery when you come and help us what's happening this father said I have a son I have a son he joined the military during his time at one of our Adventist colleges he joined the military they agreed to pay for his education however you would think the solution is education he joined the father said the father is the sort he joined when he was having a personal spiritual struggle now he is at her right ankle reconversion he wants out of the military box the military has people always education and what needs out with the military right thing time why they training as a medical doctor he owed them big time the pharmacist can you please help us is what the right of his and we like to call you because my son is being court martial theater court-martialed on the letters yes I got inflammations they wrote that he is going to help us okay so I argued on the outside of a fluid ounce they flew me down to the place and I got right here and I haven't the entire statement of this young man on the sense of this year yes I was involved as the so-called expert witness on the issue in a court-martial on each of the military I had the chance of participating the entire story of how you ready at the background and yes I will go to put a lot of material year college or would you stop some of the tools apprise you of some of that might hurt you that might emerge Lewis will him was so David Gewirtz I've never letting identity nervously at the meetings he might be here he was the second combat engineer combat engineer with a second comment engineer Battalion etc. etc. and they asked him to pick up a weapon clinker which was military performance and personal life underwent a drastic and positive change after a Christian conversion he joined the Abbott search in October two thousand two then he reenlisted for another tour of duty after that time though then Lance Corporal learned that non- competency of the judge 's recommendation and upon personal reflection he came to the conclusion that he could not pick up a weapon to kill another person he then asked for assignments when consumed without carrying a weapon volunteering for example to work on clearing landmines in Iraq the Marine Corps refused his request culminating in the court-martial that reduced to the rank link which is linked and led to a bad conduct discharge and a felony conviction record following the jail sentence he spent seven months in jail out of the story them until the goods are not generated rather than they might but he spent time in prison because he refused to pick up a weapon because he had gone through a change of mind when he became an abolitionist and I cannot get enough you think that's unusual I have yet another report this was in the two thousand and three article by Bill Johnson editor of the review adhesive endless inquiry know what it means to software for their faith under the ongoing threat of war with the North North Korea the government forces enforces an uncompromising position on the three service for young men more than one hundred Adventists have gone to jail for refusing to bear arms the business today this is a joke I will not go to jail and the president of Korea has set up a thirty three month sentence other than being to work on the Sabbath I bear on my body the business in the Navy one pastor told me that opens onto note we all do and apart from physical beatings Adventists live with the stigma of being branded as a cult by all the questions so that's the question is what is happening about what is happening in the music of the lofty iBookstore easier for people who have suffered for taking the position now what is happening in the abolitionists did with him but that's not what opposition is recently in the two thousand and eight Avenue there was an article by the president all of the General conference all Seventh-day Adventists that Elder Paul pulls involving young Boston and the title of this article world to its leader we hope farms that are the real firms and vendors George is not competent position some people not in the web address and what is opposition they are from Boston so here it is clinically proven in the article and I have a copy of the article here the article was clear thinking about military service in the article the world church leader explains that deciding to carry arms puts on voiding the spiritual and moral foundations of your life in serious jeopardy referencing a resolution made by the judge in the first General conference session in eighteen ninety eighteen eighteen sixty seven Paulson the personal general conference says quote this has in broad terms being our guiding principle when you carry arms to imply that you are prepared to use them to take another's life and taking the life of one of God 's children feeling that all of our portable D'Antoni is consistent with what we hold to be sacred and right there on the president some of you might be aware but this is what we hold Bolton then said he admits he said although oh yeah on more and more teachers members who are taking combat positions violates in from the United States the seven thousand five hundred Adventists in the United States are how currently engaged in combat positions cinnamon at the house and Boulton maintains that searches position has not changed dealers as such that the President Obama does it with notes and publicity rights I have sent at times a certain ambivalence toward our historic position in a sense perhaps that was then and this is now all and hit on both of them know of no reason why this should be filled by the article that he wrote the article given says Doctor Bolton says both of the ladies storage position all powered search regarding service in the Armed Forces was clearly expressed hundred and fifty years ago the very early on in our history against the background of the American Civil War the consensus expressed in articles and documents of the time as well as an eighteen sixty seven General conference resolution was unequivocal in his voice quoting now booked from the general conferencing and sixty seven a position that has never changed officially but in practice of expediting our official view of the bearing of arms or in the antiwar is a direct violation of the teachings of our Savior and the spirit and letter of the law of God did you know that opposition on the Internet without vision composition ratio hence but I look around folks becoming people knew about the hands you know what opposition is somehow we don't know where opposition expect over the position of peers and those under Paulson says whether when you join the military him him him what the Sabbath and I left off the table I just thought with the chaplain last month I talk with parents of kids are going to the military I been told repeatedly when you go through boot camp you must break the Sabbath a legitimate nuclear get the humility that lets a little I've never been that would give an account of his advantage when elder Peterson wrote that all apples all the fault about that article particularly supplicants of it was Robert Peterson is also no day John Bolton when Aldo Bolton wrote an article that was a flurry of responses June July September October follow people didn't like what he said and it was so many people were complaining and I didn't like what is being said try to have assented to stop the chaplain and a former military chaplain was simply wrong if you are passive and on the chaplain and you're a soldier has to do something on some of the twenty minute sticking out of church even if this eligibility has to do something on the Sabbath because of that you are the same that you know nothing is going and what they didn't actually was the vision of a man who was what Duncan education keeping on an airplane of the pilot seems to the ground and all that and the sky became an evidence while he was in the military and of NBC's boss letting off every Sabbath except one Sabbath to I need to view the only one who can keep communication going toward having some exercises on field exercises coming up we need you on that Sabbath alone and with that vulnerability top of that we can't even announce a new sensor including goes look on that one seven because it's really needed I said look if one of my members looks at Walmart and that they needed to bring it seemed very important supplies to give the storm going for that one Sabbath on his act okay one seven is not a problem in the sky with Denise and I get your point is what the difference with the on breaking the Sabbath you are breaking the Sabbath how can you make a difference in the wonderful part of the problem would haven't such as an issue on the syllogisms caution is because our history has been read I was intrigued how does the heavenly wisdom unfortunately I know the guys but I know them personally they are personal friends of mine that historians in our church I feel them are rewriting our history client the actual article right here okay by the zero-sum article but that's all well you know it's all a matter of your conscience women unmarried if I see another young lady I like and I decide I'm going to sleep without they can out of conscience I decided suddenly we have the conscience idea when it comes to killing and when it comes to celebrate with metal positive in the military but they would allow me to do that when I see another attractive young lady noticed a metal concert of the meadow what does the word of God teaches me to get to that will get the look for the fourth command will get to the sixth commandment delivered whole lot were not the area is one of the given people latitude of causes you can steal you can live no no we think be faithful unto what to do so unfortunately obviously has been received within hydraulic with examples today right here I went to be the authors that she ought to examples in the Abbott 's review there was an article published checking nineteen of the year in nineteen ninety one doing what they do in the United States Desert Storm you write the first Gulf War had a lot of American young people went into the military then cancel what do they do and revisionist and other representatives of revisionists is an endless school rewrite our history to support out practice this week this is the Sabbath historian three -year-old autistic to support killing in war any trying to be concocted a history that is not sued by Robert all the documentation to show the actual story seriously evidenced by the way I talk with Eldon Bill Johnson the editor of the meeting at that time and I complain I think you guys are realizing I was disappointed on practices the practice of the church pencil I have the documentation here is not to buy the weights what is happening happens in time of war this guy claims that Helen Weitz is called going to solicit someone who they join the military is the own conscience and conviction there is no truth to that what's in documents like it is one of the delay don't think that just when I was talking to just the last month the chaplain quoted the story and I suggest I buy the documentation that site that's what the wrestling fiction this obviously okay they have to come up with the only story to support you anymore one example the second example another story goal the amazing life of eloquent writing the same thing they got tried to say that Ellen White supported to be more again a major problem I went to the author on this one as it thinks that Glanville built why do you like what you think he's it I didn't do that yet it doesn't really change my story so I call up into the visit of the oak AAA who edited with article ten of the B of a cousin of my wife one of the editors I know you might life my wife's cousin Isaac can you give me the article near the letter I wrote the entire story was a pleasant visit I'll send you my edited article here it is anything and I will send you the article by Gil friend Bill there is recently on bills and writings on it and if of the editor never changes it was built the road artistic discipline to be more fill either intentionally or events which gave me the wrong information and insight vitamins by Sergei and then I also went back and study the original documents I have all the original documents that Bill tries to twist the mystic principle of giving more about the original documents if there is no him all that he otherwise supported killing in war as the modern historians are twisting on this thing to do but listen to me I'm sorry to say both be careful what you mean in the average review update three runs in the careful I don't mean it for a coder to them and overcome the devil I was a little bit of a Congress where I complained about the listing of artistic to support this type of thing so what am I thankful we are in a dangerous position where our history has been called little that he wanted to support getting and what it's not to enjoy what's more dangerous is beside the post that I used to the support giving it more which is contradicting all positions are official position with the gentleman that I also met he is a practicing homosexual only one of the leaders in in a group called kinship international heavy heart of STA phase of international old FDA they are people who claim to be practicing advertisement they also actively practicing homosexuals Anderson was one of the leaders and I spoke with the height of the red light he told me about his husband Elizabeth I listen to me and he claims to be anonymous two seventy one for something and I when I was the agreement on economic I know we walk I interview you and I is that on condition they don't let people know right here because of high blood gratifying I'm not a advertising you are okay so I know I'm a elegant as a possibility what he does he's a practicing homosexual and he wrote an article about this in the military is what he says an entire article that was published in the Journal of the American Academy of religion secularism about and understand the military and the processor of sociology says that is what he says and listen to go strongly against the military the limited one killing number two celebrating singles for this event is all official doctrinal position depending nine hundred and sixty seven videos are limited however look around at what the practice people go to war with killing war and has no solid shipping we've changed our view not officially combining practice therefore the logic is just as we have morphed from being against killing in war and breaking the Sabbath if the article just as we obtain practice chains albeit not in the public out of the own theology and practice just as we've done that guess what we've been against homosexuality practicing homosexuals for all this time but let's keep up with the constant looking over the times we have a potato field research with this change in practice the following thing that's what he's promoting in this article I think that's what he said and easy-to-use auditing for consistency in all our mother and doctors working the way we ignore how visually was selected to be accepted and you can get practicing fully accepted Adventists that's what is trying to do when I read that I went to the general public I did research to collect the material for the last thirty years or more on this issue without saying some of my own views on the Ludwick five have to go through the exchange of views and called on the biblical material make a long story short a past okay not in the military key we start talking about in Michigan and when I found that he was in the military anyone the right of each of the views of invalidity was in it for seven years I talk with me and I said you know what equipment you are neglecting for thirty years if you're interested you can use it to buy candy with you I think it photocopies and peace he paid a hundred and twenty dollars photocopies four years of material and he went ahead and wrote his own book it's right here I pledge allegiance to Michigan from the Abbott is affordable I'm a recommend this book is just fine when recommending this book I pledge allegiance by Pastor Carl the public theaters and the man who is famous for us because he was in the military aspartame Phillips netbook now it is recommended to the General conference biblical research Institute newsletter to all pastors they are recommending this book and does what they say about this book was definitely the book deserves to be read widely the general principle of its sets forth I pledge allegiance to the book recommends you deserve to be taken seriously by any Seventh-day Adventists get this book provides a welcome challenge to some distorted perspectives on this issue and may help redirect some Adventist practices to be more in harmony with the supreme example of Jesus Christ that was the biblical research Institute they are recommending that other apologists for the utility doesn't violate biblical research also recommend another book object in a minute but I know this one of the debates open your Bibles to Exodus at the twenty one ago to the two main reasons we at seventh Avenue in eighteen sixty seven took a strong clear stand on the issue of the military records of those two reasons in Exodus twenty the biblical reason for this to reasons for this issue Exodus at the twenty five in the ten Commandments and you will get the usual war this morning some evenings and what about that in the bluegill glide will get that a lot okay let's go to let the passage in Exodus twenty in the process from verse eight through eleven what is it safe to remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy six they usually do all you worked for the seven phases of the Lord your God and continues right up to get the first reason we him him on the Sabbath how are you going to keep the Sabbath when you look at it and I just talked with a friend of mine but bullying the young Alex and I I know how its leaders to Alex I have is how you doing fine how you avoid well you one boy 's got the mental challenges and husband the boy well he pauses he finished Academy he was never baptized and is gone into the military to tell me about as well you see I is not conducted the father had focuses Alex I'm going to college and my boy when asked religious affiliation people that seventh Avenue S Alex tell me what is listening does your son and your son in the military keep the Sabbath and the father nudity parties it when you go to boot camp my son told me it's twenty fourth seven twenty four seventy two cannot be this no chance I get but I'm listening to people whose kids are there can't listen to chaplain up and listen widely are not Republican but I been told repeatedly by different sources when you go into the military you can't keep the Sabbath and leaves the boot camp especially now when you don't have a chance with the breath apparently I've been told in the draft even think I'm being drafted I don't want to go I got some kind of toys you buy that like but when it's a voluntary military I would repeatedly from that resource you have no choice you can end up breaking the Sabbath every interesting to the fourth amendment is crucial to believe that the fourth commandment is important to believe that rights how we're going to keep enough that please us a call by Doctor McBride five watts or why what sort of put California at the house on those polled the people of your type California have dogged to be careful not put a that I'm moving back to Michigan by the California ever since I was really down on note that the left coast in what we call it the West Coast and they fit you out whenever they go out to dinner on Claude Sabado at the Johnson and we don't have human beings are not as our example who is our example for stated that the team with twenty one for doing this you were called for Christ suffered for you leaving an example that you should follow his steps diseases as our example I think these are examples not California address General con about it it's so not to find excuses to do what you want to do the question is what should we do we need to keep this wonderful date the seventy seven holy that's a major issue the military and Elder Paulsen cc president has recognized that it is article clear thinking about military service but not good on the worst thirteen four thirty five I been looking since one of the contents is used a lot in order for the condensate I saw kill most modern translations say what they want modern translations say similar yes most modern franchises in order most old translations say kill which is like a very interesting make a long story short because here's an entire book on that one word all book written by none other than the Roman Catholic scholar the title of the book you shall not kill or you shall not murder there is a question of a judicial appeal or you shall not murder Wilma a lady Wilma and Bailey button had a definite about this book General conference medical research basin information about this book to all the pastors for the conference is to tell the passes about this because this book shows categorically what's happened in the Bible 's fascinating and scary enough before the bouquet not high over the written material I done with my own study with that and I want you to paper either the study of these a few orders of murder in verse it says of the three hundred well this is no visible to never write some of what Ron saw the zero very interesting the wood rot so if you think the word that is used for somebody who hates his neighbor or our neighbor who comes and stabbed him to death that's a whopping simple English order but the same wood rots off is used more often than you think it is more often by Moses to talk about a guy for example Deuteronomy nineteen was out in the woods and easily topping entity and as a stopping on the dude dude dude on the ninety pitches the exit flies off as I did on the Y said ninety it starts at the four forty two and nineteen verse three four and six interim before and recited it said the accident flies off and put on socks the other man didn't enjoy no the Bible is very clear and then you select fleeing where to the city of refuge numbers at the thirty five she flees the city of Everett Henry 's there to investigate and describe the contents of the old to the accident really five at no accidentally was an intentional accident of the second half when they find its accidental what do they do cynically know what you're getting was selected to do that number thirty five is categorically clear even in the Old Testament under the civil laws of Israel if you killed somebody accidentally ignited future funding eventually what happens on the old Old Testament civil law Matthew death penalty yes I'm diesel right about what they would put death penalty is a different Hebrew word from the optional not to complete the work so there's no confusion in their minds we need to get confused okay him fosters notably still don't know it says do not trust but when it says capital punishment is a different one completely English executes and it was always through these human the fungal new member over the priest always God who directs that will get to the foot because God knows when people really guilty note that nowadays people including the affidavit executed okay I got a problem with the death penalty a human life because we don't know when people up and you cannot okay and by what you know that the death penalty was definitely not just larger it was death penalty for homosexuality death penalty for kids who are disobedient to their parents okay so that the Camelot signature links in the open Old Testament times but I go back to what happens if it is proven that the man is innocent he didn't kill his neighbor fat man doesn't go for the trickiest to remain in the city of refuge until the high priest dies and when I despise the height was this for the on potential settlement halt killing accidentally life is so sacred that you couldn't we weren't supposed even took definitely felt like a replication when you drive down the road Drive carefully okay thank you the sacred right to just build on practical applications shall we find the wood rots off is you is both intentional killing and unintentional killing that's why the two thousand and one English translation which came up went back to you shall not kill and in the footnote they think the word covers both let's not pick and choose to know what happened in the United States as this book revealed it's a shocker I don't undermine you believe in your trusting God 's work on things be careful of translations this lady shows that after the second world war from nineteen forty six onwards him as thanks the translators team silly sayings from the also want to the ocelot motor on a cultural basis there is no linguistics has no semantic is no language reason whatsoever in saying that the document noted that an American can go to war and kill without the constant bombing this book shows approves it culturally theologically biblically semantically there is no support for you must not order is you must not kill that's what it is about it I just entered this in as as evidence in that court-martial case in which I was down in Biloxi Mississippi when I was at the court-martial case I took us along the lawyer who defends wife borrowed the book immediately want to get the evidence to get that type strongly that we would be getting freed from his commitment limited because he wanted out limited views he said I'm convicted that I shouldn't kill another human being and some of the book is not to thought motor cannot I said that young man is correct the word is not new someone noted that the time is you shall not kill he is taking a right standard to be involved in killing of human beings and felt the good news the prosecuting attorney a lady at a lawyer for the military listen to the case and it's gone all the way up upon the way although up to the Pentagon to release this young man goes he has a serious consciousness convictions based upon biblical data and so he is we're home by God 's grace are hoping he will eventually be set free completely from any of these obligations father is willing to repay everything is willing to do the service to go look at most Athenians as a community service for years he's not willing to get out he thinks he is a thing I cannot go into the military and participates in the top destroying another human being 's life I can't do that this vitally is the article said Google research from the General conference on that book about that book which I bought as a result so even that's all folks the author 's name is Lola and Bailey Wilma and mailing I got up Amazon.com for like ten bucks it's really worth that kind of the eye-opener additionally what happened how culture that's what translators do so the people want to think about this and anyone scary that's why before the movies old Bible of the update because the cold Bibles were not the culturally influenced has of these ought to make a long story short book is very clear we go back and I have an article in this book as well as in that book I pledge allegiance an entire chapter and get on with their usual season do not kill or do not learn so you go and get a copy of this book at Amazon for you would like it didn't get back chapter on visits Illinois and hundreds that I wrote were positive because I know that nuclear the evidence overwhelming about the self dealing anymore bodily British always comes up on what Israel did God send the name on a website to go to and there's an article there that I wanted to download it's only the Islamic faith of this article that I've ever accepted as they visited in eighty oh eight hundredth human you must have used books and articles is an eight page article called God and war in the Old Testament that's the main article because the website it's called a T I think on this evidence and atheists say a genius that exacts the authorities are atheists and atheism or go to the website click on their go to the archives and go to win on the W I N a N D Y is only one article by would not be there Doctor Pierre went on to retype sluice subliminals Professor W I in a MDY will go to the article God and war in the Old Testament he was in eighth grade so I appreciate you what they okay Doctor Manon shows clearly and without question that when you study the Bible comprehensively very interesting thing happens and goes back to the sport 's wealth and political robberies and he shows that it wasn't there the invention ever for Israel to fight Hitler absolutely excuse is that he showed the biblical to do and yellow my case is scheduled on the Bible God says I will tear all the enemy by life with a regular wife with the robot got any people Windsor Kawai dealer what is the result yes we know God will ultimately have these feelings are quite removing those cleaned and so the life you at the with the other on the right to remove the light from those who rejected right by the kind that would rock so as not to swing got excited and avoid the conflict in addition okay so God is the right to do that because God knows the heart of study God knows when people have totally ultimately fearlessly predicted in my right like the time of the flood like the final lots on the morrow and by the Garda Commissioner we know we doesn't but God does make a mistake and an angry move people can always resurrect the right is located directly but they give like I'll did not have thought you were already in a year in Iraq so God is the light giver and God can remove the life from those who rejected the argument it was never blogging principle is one ever to go to war however I'm paraphrasing remember when they want to the soul accumulated and he got soul you must achieve why so that we can be likely all the relations we want the team to lead up into walk-through IP although nations around us and God said basically you want to have a universal for all elected whatever he wants glad in a nutshell they want to be like everybody else and got been sick as a loving parent who says of the I don't like the way you know yeah but you know I love you so you can still live in the home even though it's your is outlandish I still love you located God like a loving God was enough badly as I said before I don't recommend any material any article enabled on a person except the word of God the Bible cannot examine what so Doctor went on his article again I do a lot of microfibers and endorsements always wanted two things that we might love about the big generics felt closer to the audience is wonderful so we did article it solves all the problems and you begin to understand why God allowed his recalcitrant party and able to do what they wanted to do impunity now love you and you'll see the results of this don't go this way we got about what the metaphor twenty minutes we ended the quarter the final believe the hype identical to the Clintons of the message is quite clear when we go descriptive and related well he was in a war I think you can want to the nose and is likely to be like other nations and got an okay one ago that you know I'm here as a loving parent he wanted to go ahead and often do that so they can invoke they had any luck is not to delete a parent God allowed his will to do this but Doctor wing on his article is clear conjoint he was always going to remember the time to hunt and eighty five thousand by the neck of the Army one angel care of them did not let the fame of the time it was that the that the hailstones and then the time of the flood and the time of some of the more called the free resources and scope to what God care about both who was at that that killed themselves in the morning I decided nobody saw that the lady the field looked like a blog and they can all have a all the stories about how people fought against each other because God would be in control if we would allow them to do that he will take care of the enemy we also have to step in I know good-looking but isn't it a direction what could happen the whole nation will be wiped acts all pause for a moment think call what I like is the essence of the three little time there I wanted to think about it because you know stories about how Esther and Mordecai at that point in their lives it laid decided to stand faithful though they haven't sold forty Cal refuses to bow forcibly before Haman Haman as a dip to be made for how many people and entire nation think about the speed organizations your whole nation can be destroyed something because he refused to how people want putting it affects the bottom understand how I can worship this man because I need to save myelination is that the Lord guided only listen to the folks more to get student for him as a rock and women and pilots in the edition 's existence was at stake and if God stepped into another way if his people let God take care of God is the giver of life he is the one judge of the naked came I we didn't God give God thanks awake blessed be the name of the Lord trust God that you think you have a mortgage arrested for Outlook and God took care of the situation really is in charge so that we afraid of that single I got to do this I've got to do that I legally do not again as I said in my area session printable graffiti posted if they were motivated while asking to do that without stepping on some toes here I'm getting a dongle questions at the end will spend a few minutes interesting dialog box so many times we have missed the mark and we don't understand the full story there is a conscientious objector nominally visual medics would talk about conduct and seek killing ten Sabbath keeping we dealt with that hopefully enough and by the way that the one of the most important pencils now if we look at this message the fibers forty four visited before opening I will send him five forty four and forty five through the exodus of the twenty first of May two eleven and verse thirteen cannot tell you why the evidence to officially took a position against war killing in war for Sabbath breaking under any situation now we're going to Matthew five verse forty four and forty five and within a look at what we often discussed as the issue of medics in the military conducted by verse forty four but I think to you love your whom enemies bless those who curse you do good to those who hate you and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you why is the reason that you may be sons of your father in heaven for he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good and sends rain on the just and on the unjust the issue of medics in the military are very very important issue years ago years ago there was a book that came out in the nineteen sixty seven if you were alive and I think is right around five people on number six thousand before your talk is a book called the unlikeliest hero the unlikeliest hero the story of Desmond Kinney else the soldier who women got to go Desmond Doss has vastly to three years ago public and what is unlucky to undermine this is that all I can read the start read a story like the despotic please watch the movie called the conscientious objector and what's the movie that is a Hollywood guys perversion of his February visit I'm here to preach the message striker it is not what the portrays this book shows Desmond Doss has a sake with always more so once so is the compromises that is the one point that glorifies a method according to the social of the many problems and the many compromises sometimes it is object of his conscientious compromiser and effect through the book but nobody talks about this book will deliver the starch under the working on a book on the thirty years of material and I'm a chapter in it that could be called the Desmond .ca hundred at the French would have folded military documentation on the work on that is the real story is not an unlikely spot for the Bible she says the Bible tells the true story could reveal both the faults and the righteousness all the characters we raise Desmond off optimistically zero with almost any problem about the story of Desmond Doss August nineteen sixty seven forty one years old is a different story I don't minimize the package if he was misused he was abusive people think she was booted in twenty tied up right title entitling that minimized his coverage I wish that I temper is another man's car it's okay with me we knocked on my discoloration and the way he was mistreated that's not the issue the question is what happens in the book according to the story that he tells Desmond Doss delegated in the multiple compromises and collecting other material costs are something you have to put those into the bay on stepping by right now stepping out of items that we don't feel the actually going to the material is not in this book I've another source want to go home on weekends on sabbaths they would let him of every Sabbath so he connived in organizing up on the board he cannot would like to think that he would every week and he would compensate my girlfriend Dorothy is six sites I could have sounds off on it how many something in it but wasn't it going to he was lying breaking the micromanaging the was saying something to president and an elephant if you break one for managing available on all when you read the story definitely find compromises yes right from the beginning is the DOS is motivation to be a magnetically readable directly is the most intriguing everyone to love your enemy 's enemy and the American soldiers and DOS delving this book the very first dynamic between enemy soldiers American GIs gone through that concept off hitting those soldiers both enemy and your man what exhaustive amount of cards going should be guys that I am to love my enemies and didn't even do that no he wouldn't you like to tell the rest of the story she compromised with the story for his work Mike from that point he got from the very first line invited to the income from that point deduction in the network treated any piece of himself from the twenty ninth from the beginning he was part and parcel of the military and digital clock so much so that they believed you would be reduced off to you you'll see that the point you are me instructors and instruction manuals point out that men willfully and killed with more enthusiasm and take more risks eat they note that a competent committee is backing them up infected in the story that even we won't go out to fight unless you there Desmond Doss was the backbone of the killing fascinating color you under the solution in a minute how can the things you do nothing get this material for the updates emitted just told that on the battlefield he should first attend to those most capable of returning to combat not the worst when I was in the dying letter to die on the altar guys that what to ask the guys who always wanted why and to return them so that they can go back to fight and kill the nucleotides and those who die your purpose of amenities to keep fighting and killing day although the Army does not deny the lifesaving role of the minute the language and blogging training strategies training stress is more far more active role in the maintenance Albany fighting forces both by bandaging wounds and by boosting morale before the consideration is that if the medical really in the Army for the purpose of saving lives he would have to give absolutely no consideration to be any kind of went off on the docs from the very first time he tried to be a too many the sad news is that Augustine was never into medic unit said never he was an American military morale booster I nonstop and I asked the utility consultants that it does come glad you did with the universe the news was not on some of those guys will join the mix this in the news two thousand and five okay what are they deposited a train the medics listen carefully one medic on his weapon now it is a trained medics the first thing they do is try not to kill a cordless article of one minute on his weapon returning fire can make the difference between the enemy spraying and continued to fire on us or saying hello I got a go so what do they do all new Army medics take civilian medical technician classes have a study they study title field techniques Master Sergeant Luis Rodriguez the noncommissioned officer and NCO in charge of the training at the school is a form of medic who was hit by mortar fire in Iraq in Iraq he lost his legs abuse of authority as I said he said the first thing he tells the Minix is playing them is that the enemy will fire at them you tell rendering aid and they must be prepared to fight the first thing many people get fight therefore by the something the United States the most important piece on the open door and the back keeps your rifle at the lunatic did you know that communism is the most important thing for the medication is a rifle in his event on the unit one hand to enhance student speculative one pixel click the recognizer is not stuck around and saw the medic is there to save life now committee 's most important is the rifle obviously for the frontlines and you can see the enemy then they argue until the enemy so that one should you largely affects more people logically make sense to buy reconnaissance if you do nothing what is a suggested solution for Adventists and redo one paragraph you in contrast however the Adventists and although noncombatants would be joining the international Red Cross is not the American Red Cross the international Red Cross floor a similar organization they would be offering their service system where ever and for whom ever they required making no distinction among nationalities international Red Cross they going to limit into the fighting as always I get my monthly subject and I think you want to do something in the war the website might join the international Red Cross Cleveland say like indiscriminately and help people the worst was to demo to get them out of the military given out of the fighting the worst was if that's what they do one more thing before the questions half the fun is really good to be a doozy what about military chaplains felt fall flood of military chaplains I was a civilian south and north of the companies working as a reaching out into the military to reach people in the military I was nothing military to civilian by the way working outside the screen ready at the May twenty nineteen forty three spring meeting of the General conference committee convening in New York City the following statement was the voltage coat military chaplains are ministers of religion to the men in the armed forces they chaplains are employed by the government and all remuneration paid for from public funds for the teaching of religion this is a practice which is in clear violation of biblical principles concerning the separation of church and state now we devoted a military separate paid by the military but I'm not the just the commission which act I just told I was a civilian capital but when you're paid by the mother I have friends who then will our military chaplains and it is a disaffected you know that they even tell evangelical chaplains who've been fired from the military for what for say in Jesus name amen they fired you can pray in Jesus name one that said Carrion you are allowed to you pay by the militant atheist inventory as they tell you what you fired video that so this is what was voted number three to the violation called the separation of church and state fees you paid by them how can you think to treats religion so that his appointment was made them interesting they told us that way back then let's finish up here let me just share with you again enclosing some of the questions to statements and then that we want to take those challenges that you migrate or support carefully the misstatements on war and sixty five eighteen sixty eight and eighteen ninety eight seemed to be the only bright spots of proactive code humans thought on war and military services in the early cabinet Tuesday at these times nudists the eighteen hundreds administrate strong unequivocal statements in opposition to war and any involvement in walk the path of us but I do like the provider to the IP for the peacemaking division is active the pacifist religion he says seems to be the only coherent the Christian position to pursue in this world on incessant violence and constant warning before you end up here on the one Bible picked up in the another writer is anonymous says this it seems a strange in the context of mathematics at the five forty four forty five letters love your enemies it seems strange to us that people who follow the greatest peacemaker all of all time should be so pro- war so militaristic good one personnel read Romans chapter twelve twenty one walrus and get the principle of year memories cause for any questions that you might want to ask as we close our session let's first have the sunroom it's up to twelve and it is the principal year and by the high blood stories and illustrations I can cheer for a lot more of the fit under the collecting materials that for thirty years and I been reading extensively in this issue and I'm talking to people listening to their stories and I myself am not involved in the issue to find a better way Romans at the twelve was nineteen beloved do not avenge himself but rather give place to rest footage of the vengeance is mine I will replay at the enemy got take care of it therefore this twenty eighth your enemy is hungry feed him if he is thirsty give him a drink point so doing you will heap the firings had do not be overcome by evil but overcome evil with what with good basic with the principle let's find ways to overcome evil with good we pay all others in the wonderful kind way I think of the Iraq war I say whether the wonderful if Agnes went over there to reach people and that was all mission is to go out there to kill people imagine what it seems that we could have made his we had the right mission had the right service in my going back to our official position of the eighteen hundreds and instead of folding the fact is as we followed as we formulate from all official position that we've never ever changed color price was fixed before we ask questions presented some of you might have believed so we'll cut around the self I note the challenging session I'll be willing to would looking for a little longer for question and answer but I just pray that God will continue to challenge us and guide us as we deal with is very very difficult topic because ultimately always events e-mail regardless of issues one to be faith found faithful to Jesus when he comes that's what I want to be looked for a holy father using the hands we wanted to be found faithful father he will change my view on the topic you've changed others' views including jolting pain with stepping into the beginning he was willing to spend seven months in prison over a hundred Koreans have spent time in prison unwilling to bear arms or to break the Sabbath father I pray that you bring about a genuine reformation and revival in the lives of many who were swept away from all voted position of being there to save life and not to take life at breaking the Sabbath instead of keeping it forgive us we've fallen short forgive us loose of the way thank you for being such a forgiving father thank you for being that kind of first welcome back the prodigal son Lord we love you keep us safe we want to be faithful we want to be found faithful when Jesus comes in his name we drag on and on and in this media was used by audio or is seem like a generation of Christ yeah you would like to learn more about Jim I think this is a done life back on and this is an online service www. audio versus nonwork


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