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The Desmond Ford Apostasy

Norman McNulty


Norman McNulty

Neurologist at Southern Tennessee Regional Health System, Lawrenceburg, TN



  • March 14, 2009
    9:00 AM
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how morning everyone to see MR and Mrs. require three hundred and the title for our class today it's maybe a little bit more on upfront perhaps that is the Desmond Ford opossums she gives three today's fit within the alliance for worker will get started on a heaven we thank you for this day we thank you for the opportunity to study a failure spirit would be with us now as we studied more about our sister he we pray that this would be an opportunity to learn more about what truth is and how to stay on the straight and narrow path that you've laid out for us I pray this in Jesus and the first thing that I will say is I'm not here to all sacrifice in particular with dozens for the person on from everything I hear about him he's a very nice person so I don't have anything against him as a person per se what were to be evaluating our his teachings so that's this one set that out there and the other thing that I will point out is that I wanted to clarify a couple things I said in the class last week when we cover the history and questions on doctrine there's a couple of things that were pointed out to me afterwards that I didn't say as clearly or it was an error number one archer why was the great grandson of Illinois Ashley the grandson of normal for those of either here or listen on the recording archer why it was alive during the time cutie was being published she was the grandson of the great grandson on my and also I made us in that room went to Social Security to get benefits because he lost his benefits from the church that's now is incorrect it was Andrea 's duty to die and I obviously meant to say Andrea some there were semi- names were thrown around lots week I made the incorrect statement on that but just wanted to clarify that now some people have wondered what the fruits of questions on doctrine have been analyzed I've actually had dialogue with some historians of the Agnes Church that I want a college with and so forth and they did not see a connection directly between questions on doctrine investment for an organized unit is shown some of that connection if you remember what we like that last week questions on doctrine undermines the traditional understanding of the remnant of Babylon the nature of Christ and the atomic with the remnant said hey Scott has his remnant in every church which then begs the question why do we have a message to call people out with Babylon they were saying that those your God 's people are not really Babylon even if they're in the Babylonian churches which Finnegan begs the question why call people out about why would God calls his people to come out of her here in her and you're not part about that it makes sense none of the nature of Christ shrimp check up all anonymous leaders most of them believed Christ on a fallen nature that he says not we has the leadership of the church we get a sinless nature and then he said that he believed he had a fallen nature constitute the lunatic fringe of our church of a problem and actually George nights on annotated edition he said several different ways Weld frame was less than transparent he wasn't completely forthright so forth and so forth he could never bring himself why to say that him why about that most additional nature first served and then in the atonement of the emphasis on the exam was shifted to the cross and so the question then is what what is the theological effect on Seventh-day Adventist and when you change those teachings around to the way questions on document was presented by Mike at that a hundred and fifty thousand copies of COD were printed and sent to the hand anonymous pastors and lay persons and the effects that I have theologically on the church is quite profound remembrance of one friendship Hall anonymous leadership about fun most of them believed it but nearly all of them only for a set of fallen nature now if you're to do the same most of them would probably say he had a similar nature COD says so I was sort of the shifting point in the history of atmosphere knowledge he now truths is still truth about her whereabouts says and there were synonymous leaders that God raised during this time namely Herbert Douglas Kenneth Webb Robert Pearson said Robert Pearson was the president of the General conference that the hijacking of the church for prices or later but when it comes to the leaders of our church General conference present as the highest leader and then Kenneth what was editor of the review Herbert Douglas was also working at the review Thomas Davis also worked with review and these men check issue with questions on doctrine and in nineteen seventy three and seventy four Robert Pearson Kenneth what on spearheaded what are known as the seventy three and seventy four appeals where they said Christ is waiting for a generation to perfectly reproduces character among we have a group of people like that of the common Russell mommy laundromat you can read that in the review and Herald and so forth and they were writing articles in the review that went directly contrary to what questions on doctrine published so now you have the leadership of the church is coming back against what Froom and the people of his time in the fit weight fifties that now the early seventies the leadership of the church is coming back in a different direction and something very interesting happened during this time I believe Robert Pearson was one of our most spiritual leaders of the Seventh-day Adventist church on this with respect your general conference presidents and Robert Shearson had an interest in the eighteen eighty eight mouse as we talked about that in the earlier class the messages given by Jonathan Wagner the message of Christ in you the power the indwelling Christ in his victory over also in this life and that of course was very different than the righteousness by faith being presented in questions on doctrine and questions on doctrine the emphasis is that were saved by justification only justification is a declaration by God it says were righteous even they were still signing and Robert Pearson and some of these other leaders were presenting a different view of righteousness by faith and Robert Shearson wants to shoot go back to the church studying the eighteen eighty eight message and he understood what the message was and he was going to give it a special emphasis receipts suck a look at the theological landscape of the church and he looked at the church and by then many of the key theologians in our situations had accepted the questions on doctrine understanding of righteousness by faith which is to say weird saved by justification on him fire and of righteousness it doesn't change anything and so Robert Pierson realized humanly speaking and that if they can any message which is an emphasis on victory ever send the power the indwelling Christ was placed prominently before the people it would split the church as probably true if as among the theologians of Hollywood in a big fight about manage your jungle minor they were trained theologians and how do they know what righteousness by faith as were the scholars and thus raising and so Robert Kiersten decided not to bring that message to the forefront I remember Ellen White said that this message was received in the fullness white meters with its glory and they did that Robert Pearson realized that if they brought this message to the front it would it would divide the theologian service fee and so he decided that he didn't want to see the church split now obviously I wish that elder Pearson had made it different decision that at the same time I'm here again I noticed that I think is one of the most spiritual menu letter church wished that there were more leaders like him I think he probably made a mistake in this particular case but we all are human beings that what happened as a result of Desmond Ford not bringing the aching a message of righteousness by faith the forefront in the mid- seventies what happened was the Devil came and went as informants for the church anyway so which would you rather if that's what the church the true message or of heretical message and on the other point is remember this about truth it's not shrews that divides its error that divides and let's not be a free the effect of truth your camera do not bring each well doesn't forthwith the church on okay one he clarify and thanks for your thing on wannabes make mistakes Robert Pearson decided not to bring a Canadian message to the forefront because he was afraid it would split the church and as a result of that decision just a few years later just before comes and split the church with the message is completely opposite and so what I'm saying his error is what divides not truth truth is what unites and in our ice after I've heard from people that Robert Pierce and his dying day regretted not viewing or bringing that message to the forefront because obviously he saw what happened afterward and hindsight is twenty twenty all bodies that we will see Robert Pearson in the kingdom and he truly believe that if they brought that message to the forefront of the Lord would've come in his lifetime so he went to his grave with that burden on his shoulders said again at us history lesson for us what we interview when we have an opportunity to bring truth to the forefront are we to be ashamed of it or weaken it or afraid of it or we get them bring it to the forefront so anyway so then you have during this time I mentioned Kenneth what Robert Pearson who were godly leaders Robert Pearson gave his famous retirement speech entitled out what happened you feel to the leaders of the church that we are the seventh that Mister styles of the evangelicals cannot we have a unique message Kenneth would retire in the early eighties he was replaced by William Johnson let's talk a little but more about William Johnson a clear time on the thereof other readers as well George Van amend or redone with Thomas Davis were affirming that righteousness by faith men complete victory over son wealth what is the length with questions on doctrine in the desk forward apostasy in nineteen seventy five Desmond Ford why Gillian Ford wrote a paper while they were still living at Avondale College and JoAnn Ford wasn't really known for being a theologian so when she wrote this paper may have dozens for its fingerprints all over it because he was a theologian a doctor of theology of course I'm on the anyway here's what she said her paper was entitled the search area logical implications of the human nature of Christ does not a big word that such area logical is salvation so the salvation applications of the human nature of Christ and her points in this paper were there were three main points she said that the idea that Jesus took a fallen human to human nature is totally wrong to hear she's an agreement with questions on doctrine then she says righteousness by faith is the finest justification alone meaning that one certification had nothing to do whatsoever with the salvation and of course they mean that it's a declared righteousness only and the last one which is very important the concept of character perfection in this earthly life was declared to be complete heresy so now you have fruits coming how does this questions on doctrine idea human nature of Christ could be fallen for cutie teaches justification by faith is the only thing that saves us and the declared righteousness only is not a transforming experience amounts totally wrong if you study the Bible from man the idea that we can have character perfection in this life she sang and she's the wife of the forties complete heresy the next thing that happened was in nineteen seventy six a conference was held in an Palmdale California not too far from here small out-of-the-way place to have a major conference of theologians and that's where they had it and as Ford was the key there are with the person that things percent earning around and they discuss the issues of righteousness by faith and the Adventists scholars came together and agreed that the only thing that saves us is legal justification the declared righteousness of Christ outside of us apart from anything that we need to does for goes back to Australia Victoria see the address theologians agree with me we are saved by a declared righteousness only and see him rot and so now Desmond Ford's maven is taking steam and Desmond Ford was a brilliant guy he was sort of like the Bible teacher at Avondale College the all the students wanted to be in his classes because he was so interesting a charismatic and loving and spend time and talk to you and everyone likes him and he was really starting to create some some waves where he was the general conference check a look at the situation they said you have is destined for guy he's a big fish in a and a small pond lots of vitamins of the big pond of North America and Hill Connors shrank in size so to speak so they may have Desmond four from Avenue a polished Pacific Union College and a set of becoming a little fish in a big pond he became a huge fish in a big pond so now the problem the writer and he starts making ways of thinking in college he has direct access to North America and things start to heat up well in the school year of nineteen seventy nine the Pacific Union College at the very beginning of the year the Association anonymous forms relief there calendar for the coming year and a meeting was scheduled for October twenty seven nineteen seventy nine in which Desmond Ford would be this featured speaker in here with this title the investigative judgment theological milestone or historical necessity so that starts to create some questions in your mind as to where he's gone before it happens and I'm to read the account of a student who was on campus the day that this took place the student at this time some of you may know his name his name 's Kevin Paul say here is his account it was a lovely autumn sabbaths working give get gotten around that doesn't forward was about to make a major statement the values of this theology gathered of the PAC campus from far and near one reported to me much later that the evening before Ford stated to her what I say tomorrow will be heard around the world more than a few seem to notice that same evening I spoke on the telephone with Doctor Herbert Douglas and serving as senior book editor the Pacific crest he was certain or would be extremely subtle in his assertions and would need in Douglas is worth to be close but out of his layer futilely to utterly out of the question that Ford would join friends needed directly attack in the historic as the century Doctor I Denzil Douglas I would calm the following evening after Ford's presentation but only if something dramatic occurred he seemed quite sure I would not be calling he was interested for I have three thirty the following afternoon she friends and I know for prayer in my dormitory room prior to leaving for the meeting site somehow we to some something serious was about to happen as we approached Paula Hall where the meeting was theater we saw the doors open and across start pouring out running ahead I learned that get overflow numbers the meeting was being relocated to Irwin Hall Kesey 's historic building which then overlook the lower expensive classrooms walkways and the college church complex my friends I turned around and hurried at the long staircase ancient anxious to find its feet at one class with a hint of sarcasm what are we running for so we can hear the message investigative judgment thrown away my negative negative promotions regard run stronger for beginners discourse with his own testimony describing doubts yet held for decades about the harmony of the sanctuary doctrine with the book of Hebrews he went on to discount the validity of the year day principal denied any linguistic connection between Daniel eight fourteen and the depiction of Leviticus sixteen of the ancient cleansing of the sanctuary and declare the book of Hebrews places price in the most holy place not in eighteen forty four but immediately at his ascension the crowd loved every word bringing forth message with enthusiastic applause at least one return North American division president was there rising to his feet are in the question with a choked voice and a breaking heart a group of us gathered in the back after the meeting hardly believing what we adjust her upon returning to my dorm room I called Herbert Douglas again as I promised to be in the event for its message was newsworthy I read him my notes over the telephone by the time I finished his sorrow was palpable taste of the meeting both of the world in days seen the General conference intervened arranging with Pacific Union College the Ford be given a six-month leave of absence during which time you are prepared of the defense of his views which would then be examined by a committee of persons from varied backgrounds Ford's manuscript held Daniel eight fourteen dammit man the investigative judgment totaled nine hundred ninety one pages and was eventually published in book form and then he goes on to say Agrippa hundred and fourteen scholars pastors and church administrators soon to be called the century review committee met to consider fourth case of the glacier view Ranch near war Colorado the week of August ten at fifteen nineteen eighty less than a month later following unsuccessful efforts by church leaders search for three consideration of the staff the General conference recommended to the Australasian division the fourth ministerial credentials be removed this was done the years that followed would see scores of pastors in a number of congregations exit the ministry as well as the denomination in the controversy that's ignited continues to this day it is enough if the church and dare not forget and one whose unfinished business remains essential to the task of contemporary in reading that account yes it's almost hard for me to to get through that account being emotional because there you see absences and nearly destroyed by one person they it started with the fruits of questions on doctrine you say what will happen that happen for someone or read a quote from Mayor and often page forty five and she says God will arouse his people if other means fail heresies will come in among them which will sift them separating the chaff from the wheat the Lord calls upon all who believe his word to awake out of sleep precious life has come appropriate for this time suits you notice what she says their heresies will come and assist the chaff from the wheat and this certainly would qualify and on a read to you send key points that doesn't forth in his shoes in defense of his voice and wool was point out a couple of of area I see our down time really have some time in the number one these are the points doesn't afford made number one in the focus of the judgment centroid cleansing in Daniel seven and eight is not the people of God but their enemies that he sang of the judgment and sat on the cleansing of the century January because of the enemies of God not because of God 's people and that 's back and be counted out we won't look at the verses now but if you look at Daniel chapter twelve verse one inch year in Revelation chapter three verse five talks about God 's people will be found written in the book Michael stands up at the close of probation and God 's people are found written in the book which clearly shows that God 's people are a subject of the judgment so that the person doesn't for a number chief he says the year-to-date principal lacks clear visit biblical support on enough pretty pathetic if you look at the seventy weeks I mean Christ came right on time according to the urinary principle on if you read some of his later works you try say what you can prove that Christ was baptized and twenty seven hundred and thirty one and Steve was done thirty four worth of historical uneventful anyway he strategies taking at straws and said he's clearly trying to destroy out in the theology stem is number three the Word cleansed in Daniel eight fourteen is not a correct translation after you actually look at the translation of it means to justify its from the Hebrew word NASDAQ and of course since he has a narrow view of an inch complete view of what justification means if there were justified is synonymous with cleansing and you think that just being justified is an outward process only you wouldn't see a connection between the enclosed words if you understand that to be justified means to be made righteous not just to be declared righteous and there is no problem with that translation for family because when the sons of God 's people are blotted out the end of the investigative judgment high-profile justification enough people honestly doesn't afford and understand that's now you start to get into some weak areas of her forces Antiochus at Tiffany's was the primary if not exclusive fulfillment of a little more prophecy in Daniel seven and eight I give me a break from the other Daniel eight the little horn gets some failure and waxes stronger than the powers that come before and Antiochus epiphanies which it was a much smaller power then media Persia and Greece and anyway the hardly bears even talking the stats Catholic theology 's number five the book of Hebrews teaches that Christ and the monthly place of the heavenly sanctuary at his ascension and doesn't forget the new international version approve this to get a key reason nine degrees nine in the unit of the national version this crisis entered into the most holy Place entire chapter and my father-in-law has written a nice paper showing that the correct translation of the word to have idea is holy places which means holy place and most holy place in the entire chapter of Hebrews nine and the one translation that really mutilates the translation of the new international version of the four dozen Ford used to prove this point number six he says the Bible teaches neither at your part heavenly sanctuary nor achieve phase ministry by Jesus in heaven once again Hebrews nine says that the sanctuary is that Moses made as it was a pattern after the one thousandth how much clarity you need to get I mean now you start to wonder if he's being intentionally dishonest number seven phrase within the Dell in the book of Hebrews which refers to the second real or entrance of the most holy place once again there's two males there is the veil under the holy place will my four five four fifty sincere number eight he says seven families are wrong in teaching the sacrificial blood defiled his sanctuary either on earth or in heaven and I can't trust some people out but let's think about this year the blood of the file of the sanctuary with one that was on from the sacrifices of this in the God 's people and tell them why make a comment about this point through crusty volume four page two sixty six uses as a sense of the people were initially transferred and figured to the earthly sanctuary by the blood of the sin offering Sue R sends in fact transferred to the heavenly century by the blood of Christ as a simple cleansing of the earthly was published by the removal of the sense by which it had been polluted so the actual cleansing of the heavenly is accomplished by the remailer blotting out of the sense which are there recorded out hello Mike obviously countering what does the fourth sense against the lady next number nine the writings of Ellen White have no right or authority in settling doctrinal controversy within the church Sophie Reagan ago with Desmond Ford acrylamide take effect because he's making you cheese go with him and the scholars are go with Alan why you receive light from God and the number ten the sanctuary darkness historically seven films contradicts the New Testament gospel of grace so there you have it what's the connection between questions on doctrine and Desmond Ford Desmond Ford says the sanctuary doctrine as historically taught by seven fans contradicts the New Testament gospel of grace well questions on doctrine validates Desmond Ford's New Testament off one graces he defines it and it goes against the sanctuary doctrine yet what doesn't forth absolutely right the way he defines the gospel in the way questions on doctrine to find the gospel would the D contradiction to the sanctuary message and you may disable what you mean well here's what Desmond Ford said about the gospel doesn't Ford said when he and and this is what questions on doctrine introduce them to have missiology for the first time this is covered document called originals in this concept is that when we year born we are born under condemnation without any choice at Mister not teach that before Adam is thought that we are born with a free will to choose to serve God or not to choose him and because of our fallen nature and heaven way we choose to go against God but we are not under condemnation for being bored born Desmond Ford says yes we are under condemnation for being born and white acuity say yes run economy for being one is they are trying to be appeased Calvinist who believe in predestination who also believe that you're in a condemnation for being born so that's the first point then because we are born sinners under condemnation the next obvious point is Christ clearly cannot take the nature that we have it as if he did he would be under condemnation and need a Savior as well so use Christ lived a sinless life and some as nature that does not prove that human beings in this life can attain character perfection and a fact because we have a sinful nature that's under condemnation we are to be sent until Jesus which is what doesn't for top and he said we send thousands of times a day without even thinking it is as you know Alan Weiss has perfect health requires perfect circulation therefore when you cross your legs resending because you're cutting off your circulation that's an actual stuff that doesn't work with that said he was trying to prove what we can not be perfect before Jesus comes that will only come when we receive glorified bodies him to want centers under condemnation crisis some with nature we can't have charity friction and then we are justified of art when we are justified that the only thing that saves Christ declares is righteous and because we are sinners by nature extending all the time we need Christ righteousness to twelve arrests because worsening all the time that Christ and his mercy covers us but we keep sending based the covering of his righteousness that will save us money comes while the Bible doesn't teach that the Bible teaches that we are made new creatures in Christ we are justified and it goes directly contrary to what is unfortunate is that he says that sanctification or justification of the hundred percent God for zero percent now think of Asia-Pacific is the amount for fifty percent God 's work which out of nowhere in the Bible says that first Thessalonians five twenty three and twenty four says God will sanctify us all week or complete so it's his work one hundred percent and that does before maybe can read that Bible verse on so is then when you get all of that then you say walls if I'm born under condemnation and I'm not in a be perfect in this life and I can't really keep the law and its price righteousness that covers me what's the full point of an investigative judgment because the investigative judgment which is supposed to be every man judged according to his works well according to this gospel work in a descending till Jesus constantly investigative judgment you look at the records everyone still sinning but were judged according to our works well but everyone still setting so what's the plan the investigative judgment the investigative judgment goes against this gospel of grace that I'm teaching so let's throw it out it doesn't make sense and that seed was planted back with questions on doctrine Russians are not the foundation for a brilliant logician theologian someone I feel addition some of these very logical to save what start with the premise of this argument and take a still want to take it to the logical conclusion and it does force credit he did that he takes it from its premise all the way to its conclusion and what you get is that you have absences and destroy and it all started with us trying to reach common ground which all the most evangelicals and the end result was a theologian might does forward to wife's health foundation and I'll say this I doubt that we reframe would've been happy to see Desmond Ford's theology come into the church I doubt that he'd written the prophetic faith of our fathers with the Senate the prophetic view making forty four and all of that so then for his benefit for them if he had been alive for him than to see the foundation that he laid eventually lead to the destruction of what your files along for sure would've been a sorrowful thing for him and yet I do have some questions about frame as well I've talked to two different sources who say that shortly before he died he had a son brought a lot of newspapers but he didn't want church historians again asked if he begins to knows what he did sit for the QD3 so that's unfortunate that he apparently did some things that you don't want to lie today to see now the question then is and what happened in Kevin Paulson mentioned briefly by the way this paper that I read from his front paper that he read a full eighteen forty four embattled yet endearing you can find it on a website called Ray controversy .org at the glacier view conference you Wilson was then by this point president of the General conference and the leaders of the church came to this meeting my father-in-law was one of the theologians who is there and the problems that was at this meeting was probably the majority of the theologians agreed with those before and about his doctrine of justification by faith that we are justified only in our salvation experience and all of that and so they get most of the theologians disagree with the fourth interpretation of Daniel eight fourteen Neil Wilson survey the scene I talk to Dennis Priti about this and he said he had this scenario is similar to the Sadducees and the Pharisees coming together to get rid of Christ saying that doesn't ford is the Messiah by any means is not that some similar principles were used to few remember the Sadducees and the Pharisees had bitter disagreements on a lot of things but they all agreed on one thing we have to get rid of Jesus Christ because he's got to take us down and address theologians realized it doesn't for gains prominence and to destroy the church and yet they disagree with each other on a lot of points so what's the one thing we agree on Daniel eight fourteen and eighteen forty four we got a say that they came together about one does Ford didn't back down and they said look if you got a hold on to the second eighteen forty four pricing in a mostly force were to get ready and that's what happened and I you know I am thankful that the church tickets and Henry made Desmond Ford but they didn't get some of the other issues at stake as well namely the salvation she's an as a result of that if you look at our church today a majority of happiness whether they know it or not believe in doesn't forth teachings on salvation we teach them early believe in the teachings that questions on doctrine laid down namely I can have victory over sin in this life so he it saves me is the covering of Christ righteousness even though I keep setting until Jesus comes the problem with that is if they goes directly contrary to the third Angels message which has a group of people to keep the command forgotten the faith of Jesus so how do you have how do you experience the three Angels messages when the very theology that you espouse goes directly against those messages and so you don't destroy the identity and the mission of baptism by doing sets and what's interesting is in a lot of ministers left the church because of Desmond Ford's teachings on most of our colleges have been affected by that theology most of our young people don't even know what the three Angels messages are my understanding is that at Avondale College or Desmond Ford had one it had a very prominent affect the three Angels messages are covered in a small part of one class N/A and covering theology further for ministerial students and of most of the ministerial candidates coming out of Apple don't even know what the three Angels messages are is as anadromous college and it sort of be logical though that if you accept doesn't foresee continued throughout the investigative judgment that you would want essentially much time talking about the three Angels messages which bring prominence of the investigative judgment and obedience and living by the faith of Jesus and that's all lopsided today with interesting also is that if you look at the editor that replace can afford it was a strong defender of the faith William Johnson she came in and see he was interviewed by Walter Martin remember Walter Martin he was the one if you instigated the cutie back to first place you on this television show called the John anchor Berkshire they bring on William Johnson 's you talk about happiness teachings and so William Martin Aslan Johnson questions and he says he claims that Helen why early in her ministry denied the full deity of Christ this is what Walter Martin the claimant now William Johnson discredit this way I've never heard of this that Walter Martin presses the issue and so then it is for William Johnson says all give you my answer why is not an infallible interpreter of Scripture that I have the editor of the items reviews and Eleanor thought an infallible interpreter of Scripture and then you go on down and they talk about the judgment in Baltimore and I think the judgment is just forgot to give this gives that has nothing to do with her salvation and then this is what William Johnson says well I don't believe that the judgment is for our salvation not all again our editor of the review and he's starting to sound a lot like this for now and shortly before William Johnson retired he actually allowed Mohan with me he allowed an article to be published that basically said justification only and we don't need to worry about the judgment MP4 like what this sounds like Desmond Ford in the fighting was the person who wrote the article had written a letter beyond Paulson president of the General conference thanks let's reinstate does not afford because as we can see now Adventism is really an agreement with the fourth water we get rid of him in the first place now what's interesting is that when Ford was here canceled church last September he said a couple of things I didn't get what I watched Eminem video clip is a couple of things of interest number one he said here's one thing that he said that I found interesting is that you don't have to be good to be saved but you have to be saved to be get what is not automatic secondly he said you can tell he's better for the ministry said you know the Pope has apologized him for how they have been persecuted Protestants in the dark ages that the Seventh-day Adventist church doesn't apologize to me removing my credentials and I say praise God he should still be outside of the church so so what we see today when the editing of the fourth that was piece of the scholars all agreed to be justified is to be declared righteous only well you know what Ellen why is says to be justified is to be made righteous as well as the third-largest holder with all my overdose is and any other scholar so I when I want to say in closing is that God is allowed here if you come into this church in this he is calling us to be faithful of the three bills must visit as if and when there's a group of people who will stand up for the message is coming across the hall on the delay was not me blown off by theologians you don't understand the methods must study for us also we know the truth this is


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