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She Said, She Said

Mark Howard
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Mark Howard

Director, Emmanuel Institute of Evangelism

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  • March 14, 2009
    4:00 PM
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heavenly father father we pray now for this last session that your spirit again would be with us would inspire hearts and minds give us understanding in the spiritual things Lord this is the most important topic and I just pray again the Holy Spirit inspired prophets would be with us this afternoon and give us illumination and spiritual and spiritual teachings and spiritual subjects we ask and pray in Jesus name amen okay couple things I want to start out with here first of all during a break as the process of the website went so eugenic even if you didn't get that currently my website is www. Coldwater one word STA as part of one word cold water in CA .com and then he just got online sermons you'll find the separate section for the spirit of prophecy series and the handouts and then somebody asked him an e-mail if you would like my e-mail if you have some he wanted to ask me or e-mail me about something my e-mail is an as in Mark M Howard H W a R D M Howard M I SDA or its Michigan SDA MIS DA .org and I can forget that are you losing some a your rabbit hole could help you with that this afternoon I want to spend some time talking about the different understandings and misunderstandings to when it comes to understanding Alan why they're there there are keys to interpretation for any inspired source hermeneutical principles take there's a right way and a wrong way that's what we covered in Sabbath school 's morning Bell or is not correct talked about time and place in context in these I think if a person doesn't follow those principles you can come to very wrong conclusion to talk about that this afternoon and unfortunately that's been the case in our church now for a nap Venice is been an activist for a while especially for one is grown-up Adventists you probably experienced this morning back sometimes we we we if we been in the church all lives we can get an isolated mentality where you know getting the over the head with Allen why is just an Adventist thing but the fact is that Calvinists get beat over the head with John Calvin Luther and sometimes I don't think it's any more get beat over the head with Martin Luther and everybody in Christianity gets beat over the head by Bible thumpers in sentencing and other words inspired writings can always be abused that doesn't make them less inspired you have to imagine that if the devil wants people to lose respect for and inspired writing he's going to have somebody misuse that inspired sort they understand that so that you feel in your espresso you've been beaten over the head with Alan light my answer to a lot of people when they tell me that he has quit getting beat over the head by her and start reading her for yourself and don't worry about some of the folk value pay the reality is that there are many avenues that don't spend a lot of time studying the writings of Ellen White and Ann you can come to all kinds of crazy conclusions especially what you know is mainly based on what people than a MS were to talk about this afternoon she said she said you're probably a no doubt heard the VI he said she said form of argumentation where you have conflict in opinions that are brought together you talk to one person they give you one story and another person to give you another story while that same thinking applies to one individual you know that he says that she said means any talk to you over here and and we have a conversation together and in a minute preeminent talk to you and then you say one thing and you say another thing and I'm in the middle of but the fact of the matter is that we can take one individual and just selectively take only some things that they say and even potentially put them against other things that they say they and when it comes to reading Ellen White's writings of years been the issue a key issue when people come to understand that her writings are inspired just like the Bible and that they have the same authority as the Bible as Bible writers its argument clarified a little bit of time together maybe I should clarify it right now so many asked me about this recently visit when you think about this this this dish is good inspiration any is Ellen White to be taken on the same level as the Bible are not issues inspired the same this is when somebody told me if he's inspired the same it would make sense that she would be regarded the same gears the only distinction I would make their while Ellen White was inspired like I said inspiration his inspiration while Ellen White was inspired as as as all other profits are inspired she's one as opposed to the collective group that we have in the Canon of Scripture only never expected to test the Scripture by her writings but that her writings would be tested by the Scripture are you following okay so in other words yes even that has inspired us he has the same authority but every prophetic utterance after the Canon of Scripture has to be tested by Scripture now the question is asking all the same thing had to come up in in Paul's day sparkling prophecy what happened there I mean there was a time when Paul was not in the Bible you understand that Howdy people regard him they had to test you once he was tested he was accepted some activists want to test Illinois until Jesus comes again to edit as you come a point where there's enough evidence there to say you know what she is inspired by God and and and and and and she be given the rightful place of authority but it's always to be tested by the Scripture because this is the collection the canon as it were a collection of inspired writings not that here's a question that needs to be asked if it be people either don't ask don't ask and that is when for example a person single zone length must be inspired that should be receiving me he regarded the same as the Bible if Alan light is saying the same thing as the Bible say what's the big deal the implication often times when people are asking that question is that that they see a contradiction if there is no contradiction between knowing the Bible who really cares you can regard the same because you see a pastor it is taking the same the people can have legitimate questions and issues not want to spend some time talking about I'm going to spend the time that we have trying to address some of the key questions and issues that come up incidentally Evan Hope is retweet retweet decided to have a co-op question-and-answer after this session if you read questions in the spirit of prophecy get them ready and will do our best to answer them after the session of course you're welcome to leave the best time to if you want but I've had a number of people come up with different questions and thoughts and sword and open at the time for that afterwards we share with you something where they put the leaders of this I just don't respect not sure what I the proclamation magazine this morning this is a butt out my for a group of former administrative reclaim happiness from the deception of Adventist and in the magazine is a testimony here by a woman named Karen Earp McCarran calls her testimony my steps to Christ and she is explaining how she came to Christ out of the evidence church knowledge to listen to this because I think this is indicative to a lot of experiences in the church today are a lot of cinemas in the church she says Jesus is coming back to pick up a spring that statement coupled with my desire to teach my children about Jesus started me thinking about New Year's Ainu religion I knew about the seventh day Sabbath I knew about our Sabbath rules and Ellen G White I knew about the state of the dead I knew about so many things associated with the seven bad as religion and I did not know who Jesus is it was my fault that I did not know who Jesus did I not know Jesus but I was a loyal and thinnest and never thought to make an in-depth intellectually honest study of the religion and how it measures up to the Bible my husband Royce and I began to study Rice was on his own journey having begun a dialogue with a Sunday keeping friends on his own his about the Sabbath in the new covenant so I began my own journey to know Jesus I was a fourth generation Adventist my family was instrumental in the founding of both the hospital and college in Madison Tennessee in fact my mother-in-law took some classes from my grandfather Madison College before she continued her education at Emmanuel missionary college our family worship was not a consistent or important part of our family life the only consistent part of our spiritual life was keeping the Sabbath and going to church we learned are really you school I went to Avenue schools in kindergarten through college and I even went to heaven the school to become a nurse anesthetist I graduated from Madison Academy nineteen eighty one and Southern College of Seventh-day Adventists or Southern in nineteen eighty six rice and I met the spring of nineteen ninety one we are married amount as the nineteen ninety two when our children were young we decided it would be best if we attended church more regularly we attended several of the Nashville area administered just never felt like any of them fit during this time I studied Adventism and love reading signs of the Times Magazine currently conquer lands praying to Jesus that he would lead us to teach our children about him I now want to jump ahead here little bit now they were going the small hurt her husband began studying with somebody else and she says all she met an alumnus of Southern who is no longer an asset he told me that he was not in evidence any longer but now a new covenant Christian I'm actually built he could tell by my expression that I did not know what he was talking about slowly over the next few months whenever he had time to explain the new covenant to me while I did not understand the new Bible insights all at once they did begin to make a study and pray this man was the first person the Holy Spirit but it might have to teach me about the new cup soon after I began my study the new covenant I father-in-law baited me with a question about where and many were ever had was when he took the fruit in Hades talking something about lunch about that lunch today with all touch and I had always understood that Ellen White story about Yves leaving Adam sighed then I read Genesis three six have to find my continues on that Adam was with the I knew then that I needed to investigate Ellen Wightman she received that proclamation and then she goes on to talk about how she found freedom in her new experience with Christ department have an assert them apply common in this I want to tell you something that there are many Adventists that share the experience of Karen her there are a lot of them and us that share the sentiments of Karen Herb about the rules the Abbott and his rules the Sabbath rules and Ellen White listen carefully there may have noticed that share the sentiments about the evidence religion because they share the experience of Karen or I want you to see what that experience is if you didn't catch it the first time through and she says I knew religion I knew about the seventh day Sabbath and I knew about our Sabbath rules analogy why I knew about the state of the dead and so many other things were associated with M&Ms revealed religion but I did not know who Jesus was it was my fault I did not know Jesus but I was a loyal advanced is no such thing brothers and sisters is a loyal advocacy does know Jesus it takes now you can find indicators on the China care this woman now and simply saying that I said I feel for her because I know they're having is that grew up in the system in a drop as cultural Christians it's not only Nana 's church that after they grow up in a culture of Christianity but they never make rice there'll say and and and and she myths about was her own fault it wasn't the church 's responsibility to teach in our parents at a role in teaching or they didn't but the point is when CB became older it's her responsibility the fact of the matter is that weird just like what Jesus said in the days of Noah were preoccupied with buying and selling planting and building our new computers and iPhones and all these other things and we don't have time to apply ourselves the one most important thing and that is where my daughter spend eternity in a lot of young people today who don't know Jesus not because they can own about Jesus because they're too busy with anything and everything even with school and let me say this maybe I'm not allowed to say this on campus that's okay I invite me back in school as he too busy for Jesus you're focusing on the wrong thing because school and Savior but Jesus done and Jesus would want to go to school not us that is a nice save writing but listen she says I I I was a loyal seven avenues and never thought to make an in-depth intellectually on a study of the religion and how it measures up to the Bible that's a loyal Adventist level however this does make an in-depth study of the religion that's why their amendment is not an Adventist because they join some groups on MS because I study the Bible and say this scourge was not able now she goes on to say our family worship was not consistent or important part of our family life the fusillade no any incidentally Karen if you've been reading when Ellen White said he would make it a point to have family worship as a consistent part of your spiritual life Donnie Andrews University study was done some years back on people Adventist people feminists who regularly read Alan White and Red Hat Dennis to get a big difference was astounding the animus to begin regularly read Ellen White read more of the Bible is an interesting than the nominal pastor and the people who didn't read much Ellen White read more the biological that some of the findings of the survey shall show that the minister read more Ellen White actually read more of the Bible than the people didn't realize they also were more mission minded we gave more to mission projects and the church they were more secure in their own salvation any assurance of salvation no no no it only takes away the assurance of salvation but the survey results show and some Karen shares his experience will aware in essence he's lacking this relationship with Jesus but it should be no surprise when a person doesn't have regular family worship they've never study the Bible to show themselves approved to find out whether the religion is biblical etc. etc. me doesn't it follow suit there personally that would know Jesus if you don't spend time in the words of Christ and so as I said the reason a lot of people today share the sentiments of Karen Herb is because they share the experience or the lack of experience of character and you'll find that a lot of the issues that people find with Alan why stems from an insecurity in their religious life because they've never learned what it means to have Jesus as their Savior and when you don't have Jesus as your Savior and you don't grasp that true that having a righteousness of Christ it skews your view on everything I brought my camera take a picture of you is it's a beautiful and if you hold still here you all look so small was wrong turn around I guess all my senator your viewpoint can change things in a lot of ways can it you look at something from the wrong perspective everything looks different and when a person doesn't have the confidence of knowing Christ everything they read in the counsel of God is that I have different slant to it the apostle Paul addresses and very interestingly in many speaking of the covenants in the book of Galatians he talked about a child how child is understood words and guardians even though he's an air evenly than inherit everything from his parents he still put under stewards and guardians until he reaches the age where he's old enough to receive his inheritance and he speaks of this in terms of the covenants that a person under the old covenant is like a child under stewards and Arnie and the point he makes their let me see if I can flesh it out for you as a parent I'm a parent of two small children my fact that twelve -year-old son and a five -year-old daughter there are rules that I make for the my children they don't always understand or appreciate the rules by the way anybody ever experience that sure you have Fraser hand I don't care if you're not a parent your kid your kid you especially your parents like I given my fear my dad they justify their I was always pleased with the rules he gave me a so I am rules for my children that bet for example I don't want them going out and playing in busy traffic now when they reached the age of maturity do I say okay now that that the EU got get hit by a car doesn't matter to me anymore you're of age or or or is the purpose of my rules when they're younger so that by the time they are older they'll understand this will make enough sense to them that that will outline by the rules without the restriction placed upon the whole idea of the alternatives some people teach a result of new clinical readable licenses I will not give a lot after Jesus came the loss not mine anymore and nothing at the polls say that some of all saying but call saying is that when a person doesn't know Christ the good old will no longer friendly the time at my child looks at my law nothing on the street damn woman you have any but when he gets older when he gets mature he realizes why that lies there and now he incorporated into his online and just like the converted presidency the law is there to drive us to Christ and what he do he writes the longer parks and now it's in my life to do is with Allah and so that is with all the Council got gives that if I don't have the conversion experience it's been askew the way I look everything to God tells me to do London feel like it's restrictive and carnal heart issues I talked about that last presentation another other things that contribute to a misunderstanding and here are some I will see what I can address your facilities and just got bumped through by one address them at least a little bit some of the main contentions you have with Ellen White some of these have to do with accusations people make about her and some of them have to do with the the way that we read what Ellen White wrote the first one is an accusation that probably every seven Baptist is heard and that is that Ellen White was a plagiarist how many of her okay let me make something very planes you see if you get on most in fact I can't say I have to say all Internet website antifeminist websites they will say things like element to play dress in the end Adventist churches never done anything to refute this they can't answer it and I've read that a number of sites and let me just enlightening okay in nineteen eighty nineteen eighty want to take any exact date back to have a paper here but I I am not her furtive sake of science of Warren John's who was the attorney with the general common seven badness decided because of anyone explain a little bit in nineteen eighty Desmond Ford was making his accusations against dolomite Mr. Coffee is a member name of Walter array who then was he wrote a book called the white lie and he is whole book was about how Ellen White plagiarized and here's the service bus saith the Lord but the Lord goodness that because you copied it from somebody else and so then the accusations were made in Illinois copy ninety ninety five percent of her stop and so Warren Johns undertook to hire an outside law firm he didn't hire it with Adventist church funds because Anthony was that was sure the church paid a month is no one higher than personal private fun to get some friends together hired an outside law firm non- Adventist that specialize in literary piracy copyright infringement etc. I was there with a specialized insulin just okay will take the case and and we know a little bit about plagiarizing that was their thing John's gave to cities and attorney addicts of the cases and him and him and Vince ran a Roman Catholic Remick said when he came to the case key he really didn't have much of an opinion but after he got the talking to several Adventist ministers were kind of in the fourth thing and reading a defense but he says was a very good defensive Elimite he said he actually became biased against her before he started his case is that this woman probably did everything she said they say he'd plagiarize incontinence is probably a a charlatan anyway they gave Remick Ellen White's books they Guérin make the books she copied from our borrowed from they gave Remick the accusations of the critics and said go to town and tell us we want to know two things there was more than two but I'm summarizing it number one could she be convicted of plagiarism for what she did number two even yes she couldn't because of some loophole was what she did unethical when Ramming got done with the case I wish I could take the time to share with you all that Remick said in response but basically RAM etc. I got some of it here but North American missile to what Ramming basically said is that on here you just got here this is absolutely incredible he interview the day interviewed up in ceramic and Vince Remick said it was reading how enlightened messages in her writings that changed my mind and I think there's a distinction a very salient difference here in the review and Herald who interviewed him several what would you how would you describe the difference is I believe the critics have missed the boat badly by focusing upon Mrs. White's writings instead of focusing upon the messages in Mrs. White's right now incidentally again I thought he is like a sunset when you find in her right messages Mister Ramage how do they affect you Mrs. White moved me in all candor she moved me I'm a Roman Catholic but Catholic Protestant incidentally the only book he read all the way through his gray controversy but Catholic Protestant whatever she moved me and I think her writing should move anyone unless he is permanently biased and is on swale where you explain what you being mean by this Mister ran well he says a person can walk this earth doing good deeds and saying to himself and maybe others I'm a nice person and after a time you really come to believe that you are but when was the last time you really look inside yourself and found out what you are really like now there are a lot of things that Mrs. White is put down on paper that will if read seriously perhaps called for to look inwardly honestly any of you do the true self comes out I think I know a little more today about the real Vince Remington I did before I started to read the messages of Ellen White not simply her right I'm jumping ahead in the interview to his summary of the whole thing the bottom line is this what really counts is the message of Mrs. White not merely the mechanical writings words clauses sentences of Mrs. White theologians I'm told distinguish here between verbal inspiration of plenary inspiration to many of the critics have missed the boat altogether and it's too bad to I personally have been moved deeply moved by those writings I have been changed by them I think I'm a better man today because of them and I wish the critics could discover that attorney RAM makes how would you sum up a legal case against Alan light as far as charges of plagiarism piracy and copyright infringement are concerned ran it if I had to be involved in such illegal case I would much rather appear as defense counsel than for the prosecution there simply is no case this is a professional law firm that specializes in those things if the delivery that I'm not anti- only website that you don't even know that answer that happened twenty years ago industry over twenty years ago Mister just pushing on thirty years ago that that case was solved and decided and so people today when intranet pages and thing around look there's just no basis for it people pull these the tickets draw because Illinois bar and and and Raymond makes the point that one of the books he encouraged people to one of the books he borrowed from Judah phrases and an end it was a book on the life of Paul I recommended the book to administrators and we sold it as an administered in our ABCs on Ellen White's recommendation will try to play dress recommends people to read the book they plagiarize from any ADA it is a ludicrous but the whole reason for these things is to heal the Dell has always followed all the same if you can't do the same the message you defang the messenger they call Jesus a wind ever and a lot they told Jesus he cast out devils by the prince of devils they told Paul he was a leader of the cult of the Nazarene any time a person can disapprove the message they attack the messenger the plagiarism charges have been dealt with you think they're going to go away the accusations of plagiarism no to be there but we all know that plagiarism is one of the charges that comes up against Ellen White I wanted to touch on that just because it's so common in fact came up at lunch today somebody brought it up and if anybody has any he liked the way at the Ellen White estate for the article that I have it I was reading from its entitlement only plagiarism and you can see that I copied it off the white estate will send that to you I may have it in a PDF form on the website I mentioned identified only can put it there I hear some other things that people get into a disconnect again I just have limited time to share with you some of the challenges that people have in a retail and whites right he mentioned there the difference between what he called on plenary inspiration and verbal inspiration K the Bible teaches that that that the prophets spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit the Bible understanding of inspiration there people have different viewpoints how is a man inspired verbal inspiration says that when God inspired prophet God dictates to the drop in other words when not when God inspired Jeremiah and he wrote something not young now on Jeremiah eight nineteen ninety my nineteenth is thus says the Lord God an inactive there are places where thus says the Lord God and then he would he would sell them in germ I would club there other places where Jeremiah would write something and at the verbal inspiration is believes that God dictated it he said Jeremiah Wright this the thought Lord Lord Sand said to Hugo Bell two two King King so-and-so and his word for word dictation that verbal inspiration in other words God has just inspired the concept of the thoughts God inspired everywhere the prophet wrote what that means is that there is any discrepancy in the words of the prophets then the false profits when we get a real common example the Gospels the guy did incidentally there other forms of inspiration just dealing with you right now for the sake of time this is a very verbal inspiration and the inspiration by Ms. Bryson says that God inspires the prophet with an understanding of truth and in the problem is led to put that into his own works the Gospels are the clearest evidence to us that God employs thought inspiration of verbal inspiration because of God implied verbal inspiration every one of the Gospels would be exactly the same but he instead they all read differently why because Matthew came from a different perspective than Mark Mark had a different perspective than Luke and so when they saw what God showed them they played into their own words God directed them putting into words but the words were not all dictated into the profit now the reason this is important is that there are people who have gone I liked writing and they get hung up because they believe in verbal inspiration which the Bible doesn't support here's an example paradise Valley sanitary in the San Diego area Ellen White had a vision regarding this sanitarium she gave counsel regarding it as she was describing the place she described that this air in a sanitary and had forty rooms in a somebody counts it and there are not forty rooms there were thirty eight rooms and because there were thirty eight Rosen not forty Ruth Ellen White was a false prophet because if she was a true prodigy were known it had forty room but the point is that God didn't show Ellen White the forty rooms of the point of the vision was not to say how many rooms the Paradise Valley sanitary manner the point was some other counts all is only how I was putting in your own words she went from what she heard other people say that it was a forty room sanitarium that wasn't even the heart of the matter no personal understands thought inspiration doesn't have a problem with that but a person who thinks inspiration his verbal inspiration has a huge problem Walter Ray who ended up leaving the Adventist Church in writing the book the white lie he saw inspiration his verbal inspiration in fact my dad has a book that Walter Ray published that it rose he wrote commentary on Daniel and Revelation before he left the church in one of the things he says in the introduction is I'm not going to add any of my own words the comments throughout this whole book because I don't want to take what God has said another word he was just conveying that he understood everything and there was dictated by God and said he and one at his words to what would happen when he found out that Ellen White actually would take up a quotation from for ours life of Paul in her book she couldn't be probably because gone what got done verbally dictated it and if she had taken from somewhere else it could've been verbal dictation open them in verbal dictation it was thought inspiration and a and incidentally the same person this same problem a person that might have with Alan light on that inhabit the Bible with the same the same concept if a person believes that inspiration is verbal you can have a huge problem when one of the Gospel writers said that there were two demoniac sitting at arenas and the other one says there was one demoniac you can have huge problems in less you understand thought inspiration the thought was given to the Prophet and for one of them as they viewed the scene one of those among access prominently him but for the other gospel writer he picked up on on the two demoniac they were contradicting each other it's the result of thought inspiration you follow that the question he can ask on that effort now this brings in a couple other things because of thought inspiration a prophet because the prophets words are inspired the prophet might wear use words that can be misunderstood of course that could happen anyway but words change phrases that people use can be misinterpreted and misunderstood something that somebody just wrote to me about last week regarding Ellen White was her statement about the amalgamation of man and beast that he heard this controversy it is only two statements they say the same thing that one of the reasons that God destroyed the flood the world and before the flood one of the greatest sins of the people was the amalgamation of man and beast now I was reading out some he sent me out one of these Internet critics is to quote sound like a mini says she was undoubtedly speaking about man's relation with animals undoubtedly according to this Internet critic what people don't understand is first of all the idea that not only does the same elevation of man with beast pieces of man and beast and according to the proper usage of the word amalgamation it has never been used in FB nickel and nickel brings us up in a paper he wrote it's available on the life estate website that amalgamation is never been used to speak of the relation of man and animals it's always between species not in other words animals animals people with people or what will Ellen White was likely referring to is some kind of genetic engineering and intermarry but the point is that as people and people will take these statements of Illinois incidentally in all of her writings if you look at all elements writings it there's their voluminous there's a tai chi and how many books and pages she wrote in the two paragraphs and people take it snicker and because they understand and interpret something they don't like yourself didn't you have different words in different historical dates for one is another thing some people get upset with the start was a well-liked historical dates were wrong it was not as historian Ellen White herself commented on and say look that is probably were taken from the best sources she had donned in short and historical dates and vision he wrote about the Waldenses and her whole point was their faithfulness not what time such and such happen the people will take those dates this historic date since they only didn't have the right historic date I mean let me give you one example Ellen White wrote a letter to her husband and she dated it like Tuesday March five and somebody actually went back that year and found out in March I was limited as it was on Thursdays that makes her false prophet seated in their hanging her up all my barracks backing of inspiration but the Bible does not teach verbal inspiration to spot integration follow that okay then the American are prophecies that God has given them conditional prophecies make some some people will will will say that well I have to say it in prophetic utterance was inaccurate is a false prophet because she said that something would come to pass that the food for worms vision is probably one of the key critics vehicles here whether some boxes tell my sites when an angel has spoken her she was speaking in a congregation she told the congregation the angel said to me about his congregation some of the people in this congregation will be food for worms some of them are going to live until Jesus comes over and they took this statement and in fact this and while some of the little Jesus comes and they follow the history of the people in the congregation the youngest person the congregation was really what I was a baby in her mind and his mother 's arms and and so they said the Lords good the time Willy dies because she said some of these people are going to see the coming of the Lord will he guide in the she's a false prophet because she said the angel even said that some will live until Jesus go but the Bible tells us and in a lot of people unfamiliar with this the Bible speaks of a certain type of prophecy that's called in and are a conditional prophecy that is their conditions to Jesus coming you know that you're the apostle Peter says that we can hasten the coming of Jesus that's speeded up you know we can also slow it down in some respects and we been told that's the case of some he asked me over lunch wow you know your prophecy is conditional sometimes the conditional element is stated to be of use in Scripture examples John is probably the best example .org Jonah Yugo prophesied in and about you tell minimal and forty days member will be overthrown there was not a fan about about there was no you don't about it if they don't straighten up on the destroyed in a Somerset the proxy was forty days is all you have forty days in your overthrown the reason John ran the other direction was because John knew God 's character an event leverage something to repent in dust and a change we go to do everything on a false proposition it would be to throw another not exactly what happened and don't I don't assault up on the hillside waiting for the fire to come down in ear member to read the story of John Lott flap of his conditional processing you need to state the condition but the condition was if they repent I'm not going to destroy it if a person finds fault with Ellen White unfulfilled prophecies that are conditional and I find fault with the Bible to because Jonah had an unfulfilled prophecy that was conditional there's also the prophecy were godfathers people going to the promise land and conquer the promised android citizen of the spots intensifies came back with a status report and God says in an stone Caleb and Joshua the debate the London celebrities and what because of your rebellion and wander in the wilderness for forty years and amounted to get most of the eleven hundred dollars for your fave I guess I will go now go again and now conquer him him him and got your stats and you prophesied we would conference over to go in and in incongruent and most of them going out to get wiped out no annoying that said he promised that when they went in and got wiped out why because God 's promise was conditional on their obedience to follow that Ellen White's prophecies of some of the prophecies are conditional prophecies and and generally in a situation where prophecy is conditional LA has stated the conditions somewhere else in her writing one of the greatest problems people run into in reading Ellen White's writings as they don't read enough of they take an isolated statement they'll read it in the fight to build everything on but Jesus said on that road to Emmaus he told his disciples saying you fools and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken you can they everything the prophet said on the subject not just one thing here's a for instance three statements from the pen of Ellen White three different statements first one says testimonies to page three ninety nine eggs should not be placed upon your table is pretty plain is and and and and as a prop in God and should not be on your table by his mother councils on diet Disney two o'clock while warnings have been given against the use of these articles of diet eggs in families where the children were addicted to yes steeped in habits of self abuse yet we should not consider it a denial of principle to use exit hands which are well cared for and suitably that will minute she just said very plainly and should not appear on your table and if I read only that statement under the come to the wrong conclusion evidently because elsewhere she says if the eggs are taken care of well taken care of and you don't have sex in such circumstances situation your home is not a denial of twenty eight NATO of the this one was written to let Doctor crass when he was in Australia when as a missionary and he was not getting in the in his diet he was not eating dairy any dairy products not eating any meat he was not getting his diet we needed to get by namely B12 and so she writes to Doctor Cranston she says pulling into your diet something you have left out is your duty to do this get eggs of healthy balance use these eggs cooked or raw and do not for a moment suppose that it will not be right for you to do this don't eat eggs of his okay to eat eggs yes you can see where a person can take any one of those statements probably the middle statement would be wanted they come out with a little bit better viewpoint because even if a person just takes an isolated statement let's could happen they can come to a very wrong conclusion and so it's important to take all that spin sat on a certain subject does that make sense and when you understand all the instead on a certain subject then you have to look for the principle but what that's not the guy in charge of the school by the way the principal PLE on the end there not the principality your pal again learned growing up the difference in principle and principality principle the principle that would be over the school he's your pow PAL and I guess I'm the only one heard them anyway so you've got these different statements you want to read all that sat on a subject to get the understanding and look for principal not explain this to you briefly hear the difference between what we would call policy and principle policy is a policy would be a rule okay let us look at this way they used to be and in these quickie Mart I don't know if there there are dead really don't pay attention but I remember growing up in abilities Greg Martin antiscience safe no shirt no shoes no service and you see that stuff that's a policy that the store policy that's a rule that state up principle is the reason behind the policy the importance of this is to know that Prince of unanswered policies can change over time the good principle is eternal so let's take the no shirt and an unlimited another when I was then eighteen years old as a young man I used to go and eat I used to go bowling and my brother when I turned eighteen in the laminate a bowling alley in the bowling alley there was a had up pool hall with my comp pool hall in fact it was sweet as he walked in the door here's a desk reading your dirigible issues and analysis little section quadrant off with a little half bombings against the walls like this you could see over it in their people playing pool over there there is no bar over there anything like that but that was the pool hall and I was yet to be eighteen to go over there I was making sites down the side wall but when I was eighteen now I can go over and put whatever talking to my brother surveillance will playfully experiment talking to the lady at the counter and his siblings to deal with eight one after the eighteen like I can be here I can be seventeen and three quarters and be right over here but I can't thought making I can go over here and she says well she says you know there's a lot of crazy books on the on law laws on the books today is a lot of crazy laws still on the books like she said along this telnet on the policy on the on the state law books that says that you have to have a horse watering trough every block course they didn't have them anymore but think about this for a minute now there's a policy on the books of law horse watering trough every block of why what would be the principle behind was the reason for that rule it what your horse gets thirsty when you ride him around town I saw Amanda makes sense doesn't that make sense makes good sense okay so we don't ride horses around anymore does that policy makes sense anymore in our day no nobodies the principal good okay so we were to take the principal and reapply the principal what might he have on every block a gas station maybe not every block is that as a parsing of further than I do and how long you'll come to Basra but he understand sank if you take the Prince reapply the point is the principles very good even though the policy changes there are a lot of things Alan white robes that were policy with principles behind them and sometimes it will say well times have changed and they have and Helen Whitewood it is a way expect us with the change of time to reapply the principle but not to throw away the principle stimuli people do it's a job duty for instance here is a policy principle thing the bicycle craze on the table when I get a pastoral interviewing on Alan the fastest in the minister director said he was testing me understand after Howard do you own a bicycle he really asked me that question I guess he wanted know if I understood the difference in policy principle or something the lesson outline says it in the councils of parents teachers and students up a three sixty seven the exhibitions in the bicycle craze are an offense to God 's wrath is kindled against those who do such things are looking on the Internet if you have no background with Alan Weiner unit your new administered arena since this woman's a letter to ride the bicycle craze is an offense to God 's Franciscan against people with bicycles but that wasn't her ploy now here's another statement in my flesh and it may flesh out just a little bit more reviewing on August twenty one eighteen ninety four instead of investing one hundred dollars in a bicycle now this was in eighteen ninety four I did some looking up in an equivalent if you are put that today would be somewhere around eighteen thousand dollars K instead of investing one hundred dollars a bicycle you would consider the matter well lest it might be at the price of souls for whom Christ died for whom he has made you responsible mother is a little bit of a reasoning could you see just a little bit of the principle there and and and here's what the point is not making we need when we see things in our life writings whether there things that we understand and especially things we know we need to begin looking for the principal and asking ourselves what is the point what is the point God 's trying to get across as a little bit more background bicycle craze is a target coming equivalent of eighteen thousand dollars for a bicycle got people were saying Jesus is coming soon and yet in order to keep up with the latest fad of owning a bicycling on things just come out the prices are skyhigh and in the comedown later like a few years ago right around Christmas time they had this Xbox is Xbox 360 was selling for I dismember hearing it on on on reading it on the Internet or something this and I pay ten thousand dollars for one they sell right now for around two to four hundred dollars ten thousand dollars for Xbox 360 life because he wanted his kid to have one of the first ones on Christmas morn is not wise stewardship now hope that it had been us but understand what is the same principle being addressed here with the bicycle thing it wasn't a people shouldn't ride bicycles it was that there were people that in order to be keeping up with the latest fads and fashions were going on in paying this money for a bicycle and they were not even putting them from the food on the table for their families let alone money and the cause of God because they had to keep up with the latest fashions is that right for a Christian to do now so is a good principle not only is it a good principle it's a great principle and Ellen White's writings are full of great principles that he understood if we read her messages like Vince Remick said to understand the principles and applied those principles those principles would help us to grow closer and closer to the Lord Jesus amen now here's another one education this is not bicycled by the education page two sixteen if the girls could learn to harness and drive a horse and to use the song in the hammer as well as to take the rate and the holiday would be better fitted to meet the emergencies of life how many you ladies know how to harness and IRS anybody is usually a couple I is one of their was wrong with the rest of you don't you believe in this prayer prophecy I think you get the point here and what's the principle described in the statement was the principal to be stated for the emergencies of lines okay so what how might you reapply their principal today what would it be well suited for a young lady to know how to change all attaches directly is how to find the oil change place right and unfortunately doesn't some guys to all hands and arms still for this using this on hammer on stuff for that I think that's back when my dad and I were down in San Diego yesterday and looking at the I haven't really had not been done I mean so yesterday that all the aircraft in the World War II were put together by the women because the memory of fighting the war so they were riveting and everything else in the anyway you get the principle the and if we take the printed principle is a lot of times people will take things Illinois is written thou take the policy part of it and make it sound as bad as they and like the bicycle thing whether you want to be anachronistic it even on a bicycle you may forgive that out you know people talk like that and him and people haven't done the research and be like that's crazy without understanding Ellen White was speaking from principal times of change the principal didn't change the principles though the principal if all that I hear zingers another event that one can't discover a couple more things in the cover here Sabbath preparation the violation of the fourth commandment is not confined to the preparation of food many carelessly put off blacking their boots and shaving until after the beginning of Sabbath this should not be if any neglect to do such work on a working day they should have respect enough for God 's holy time to let their beards remain unshaven their boots Robin Brown until Sabbath is passed this might help their memory and make them more careful to do their own work on the six working now you could say having I just take a moment to think about what was involved in shaping even delivered the Norelco help it was all charged up or even plug it in you had to get the straight razor you had to go see the water up there was more involved in the understand and say the food preparation on a people say well what about Mike writing something on the Sabbath in this is just I I I don't haven't us that the Lord that I say get real you know you can put the thing in the migrating ideas into the principle is being prepared okay it's not meant taking the little things it are you doing what you can to prepare for the Sabbath I have to throw this out here sometimes people say well the reality is that a lot of those things like a shaving used to take more time and now they take less time and then some might my kind of response to that is if they take less time than why don't we haven't done if it happened on the four in the old days like you have done now takes less time to do it and so I think that there is a principle there this is basically be prepared for the Sabbath why because you don't want to be busy with everything else you want to spend your time focused on the Lord and I'm currently I can focus on the Lord by your bustling hustling about doing this that the other a storyteller illustrates that is a story of Martha and Mary member that Martha was busy with everything else Mary was at the feet of Jesus and Jesus said Martha Mary can come and help you she's just that one thing which is good to follow that I think that's what it's like the Sabbath preparation we want to spend her time at the feet of Jesus not out doing this that and the other so we get a preparation done so we can spend the time these but the principal needs to be kept in mind and if we retain the principle in Illinois writings if we read them and seek to understand the principles we can apply them in any circumstance in our life and will have a balanced understanding of truth and let me just touch on that as I finish up here as far as a egg is this is this that this is a big word today balance beam balance I just have to throw this out here balance is not some point between two errors balance is not a halfway position between truth and error I may give you an example I had a lady that that my brother actually was was working with studying with who is also a pastor and the there were talking about ties and the typing ten percent we know that's what the Bible says but she has some friends of hers is that while you know you're with the sadness and anger always about legalism you know that everything you try to be so particular and you know you can be a legalistic ego and it think Anita type I'm not joking on this whole this is serious so she decided she would pay written eight percent the way she wouldn't be legalistic by paying ten percent okay she would be balanced and a lot of people 's understanding of balance is some possession be team between true with an cultural mower 's even in the church in other words this is what God 's word says or even this is what Alan White says that this is what my friends in the church do and I don't want to be so different from her friends in the church so I'll be kind of like here in the middle on this balance is not balanced that's unfaithfulness K balances taking all that the prophet has spoken to balances considering all his statements on eggs for example and formulating your opinion and your position based on all God says on the subject balances taking my daughter said in finding the principle in it and applying the principle and comparing that with Scripture and making sure that you're standing on scriptural truth the Bible 's not an unbalanced book truth is not unbalanced truth is balanced when there's an imbalance is because restraining out a part of the truth and magnifying it over other parts of the person wants to remain balanced with they want to do is want to take all that God said on the subject and applied in their life that way and be faithful to follow it out and ask God for the strength to carry it out in your life even if it's unpopular sermon today of the church at the University church made that brought up the state were Jesus and eight the world hated me those disciples and eighty two that were not have to be hated by the world but we are to be faithful to Jesus and so my time here this weekend is really with the hopes that we innovated I can investigate the subject of the gift of prophecy for you but I'm hoping in fact the receipt there is it a person here today shared with me that they have that relative that was in the church and is now out of church while these former happiness groups and invited them to come they want you to come today and hear about the spirit of prophecy and they said you know we leave we don't need to come there because we found the troops outside the evidence church and so we don't need what's being presented the time that you're not willing to investigate truth anymore is a time you better be concerned for your soul we need to always study to show ourselves approved and in way I can I can't do the studying for you and I don't think you expect that but I'm hoping the time you spend here today will help for some of you see how I want to really look into this more one understand the subject I want to know what God 's purpose for me as I want to know how God expects me to allow this gift of prophecy to guide me in my spiritual experience and the fact of the matter is that the there are some people that Ms. Riel and white and it misapplied and they beat people over the head and we experienced that and and and and and all kinds of other things but the reality is the probably biggest issue we have is not with people who been beaten over the head of big beat people over the head the biggest issue we have is that our hearts and we got admitted our hearts are not naturally inclined to divine and spiritual things my greatest enemy my greatest enemy and keeping me out of heaven is me my own front you know what the devil can keep me out of heaven and he can keep you out of heaven we do know that the only person who can keep you out having gone to keep God in heaven he's not trying to do that the only person keep you out of having to get heaven is as ourselves and God appeals to us he's giving us direction of the church he's trying to guide us in the right path as a church and my brothers and sisters be guided by lay down your opinions lay down on your understanding is at the foot of the cross allowed Jesus to be the Lord of your life Lord means he's in charge and when he gives you direction through his word when he gives you direction through the prophets pray that God give you a heart soft and responsive to his voice that you be willing to follow where he leads in the greatest challenger going to face is when Jesus calls you to go somewhere not that you want to go but you don't want to go people tell me sometimes faster I don't read them most of the big sense of my life is just a few little things and struggling with those little things are struggling with her the big ones because those were the ones or hard are hard to give up but the Lord Jesus can help you give them up you can't do if you're fighting yield yourself to the Lord Jesus we do that is it your desire to give yourself to Jesus and to heed the voice of his profits at least investigate the words of his profits with a desire to follow where he leads you that your desire to see your hands a man but heads father in heaven father I thank you for the short time that we've had here Lord Wheatley of all times in its history we need your divine insight you've described your last a church is a church that's blind but you provided I sat through the prophets the Sears of the church Lord help us to receive the eyesalve that we may see get is that spiritual insight Lord give us those humble hearts that are willing to receive your counsel that are willing to follow you where you read help us to realize father that if only humble hearth before you we can be assured of heaven in fact Lord even more if we're willing to have our hearts Humboldt we can be sure of heaven I just prayed he would give is that spirit of humility and desire to know you and follow your truth we ask and pray this all the name of Jesus and for his taking

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