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Questions and Answers: Adventist History Class

Tim Arakawa Norman McNulty Adrian Zahid



  • March 21, 2009
    3:00 PM
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so were going to bring us some questions now I believe that you have submitted some questions and there might be some more if you have a question go ahead and and raise your hand and someone will will pick up for you in the meantime I believe Paul you have a few questions we can start to answer some of those first question where can we find copies of the historical documents you have referred to and can we get access to them only have a few resources here in the table that you can come take a look at and the other obvious that Ellen G White estate has a lot of good resources as well but it's nice to have things in book form and a lot of the books I mean the questions on document you can some find copy of those all are the place there's also the new annotated addition the cells of the ABC the professor sues you can find several books that appear on the table the annotated edition of questions on doctrine you can get at the ABC some of the other books also are available at the ABC and the widest they would be a good place as well LA dispatch a couple things here on the on the table and and some of the committee missed a few of the resource that we use so that you want to say more you can you can do that of course there are original historical sources write the primary sources that are secondary sources we looked at both but you can see here some of the some some good sources for those who are just getting started and into studies of these things a book that sat that that everyone should who is a student analysis you should take a look at his book on hindsight exactly difficult to define and so we actually have some dirt on hope than if you're interested you can contact us but as written by David Beutler he's not just a church store historian and amateur storing his written this this book covers a lot of the things that we talked about here and we would recommend that another one accuses is a book like First Amendment by Schwartz is a lot of good information there and then if you are interested in some of the health health work the classic book that everyone should be reading is called the store of our health messages there on the corner all you hold that up and visit the classic story of how the health message came to be in the Adventist church there's a bunch more to come up and take a look at it after we finished agent if you want to achieve fewer talk about us was no okay so this is something to get you started the day next question how do you recommend studying the writings of eighteen eighty eight and how can I learn more about the eighteen eighty message well I do want you to learn more about the actual message out recommend that you you go straight to the writings of eighteen Josie J Wagner on anything that was written right after eighteen eighty eight and eighteen nineties has probably would probably be a good place to start there are some overviews as well of that time one that I just met recently that was quite interesting to me is this one here is actually via Wallin can as called whatever you haven't this should know about eighteen eighty eight and does a good job summarizing what happened in eighteen eighty eight gives you an idea of Main characters and storylines that are there hasn't been conclusions as well of course there are no legacy is also the least one eighteen eighty eight study materials and you can ghost and found by those measured on a CD-ROM you can get those at the any ABC and you can okay they are in it on the CD-ROM so you can get was he wrong or the ABC and you can go straight to the Ellen White materials from a Canadian at the four volume set my paperback darkish red burgundy cover to get resource I think for someone getting into the Canadian message it would be it would be good if you first kind of research so the biographies of other people that were involved such as AG John TJ Wagner was Butler Drive stepmothers so you can kind of see where these guys are coming from and if your sense of the historical perspective of it and you can also kind of get into to their theology aspect of it as well and that's how that's how I I start setting on the Canadian message and I just fascinated by not only the theological aspects of the other debate but also the human side of it and to be of the draw some of the principles of this whole of the other time is is good for them where does contact you about different works with EJ Wagner wrote a really good they're called Christ and his righteousness is still still available by various sources and an invoice learn more about geeky Jones heels of a lot of cookbooks and Goodwin 's lessons on faith of a good place to start questions am I now cannot I just you when added to his agent without messing the human side of Johnson Magner there are some historians that in my view vilified Johnson Wagner by saying things like the top the holy flesh doctrine in eighteen eighty eight and stuff like that is just much and to be careful flights you're just a minor in the early eighteen eighties early nineties what they were teaching was from God and search if you read a historian that says that what they were teaching in the eighteen eighties reaching nineties was that geology than the the problem is probably with a historian and Olive Jones a minors theology that's just something to keep in mind next question I have heard people say that it is good for us to question what we believe and why we believe it even when referring to Quixote what is your opinion while I disinvited acuity fossil answer that question so I guess it depends on what you mean by questioning our boat leaks the Bible says that we should be able to give them give a reason for the hope that is within us with meekness year so if you don't know why you believe what you believe then you should go back and start studying so that you can give an answer for why you believe what you believe don't just take your parents workforce at a speed that she would approach the doctrines of our faith that had been established clearly on the basis of the word of God upon the writings of Ellen White and shoots hates an approach to the doctrine him be open minded as to whether or not the teaching on the sanctuary is from God or maybe it's an error your putting yourself on the devils playground if you read the history of the development of her doctrines God clearly was in the development of our doctrines and to deny his presence in the development of our doshas is to deny God 's Spirit in the early phases of the asset management and remember Ellen White says that the white from the midnight cry shines at the beginning of the pathway and shines all the way to the second coming of you start reject eighteen forty four in the sanctuary which came out of the why of the midnight cry your re: falling off the stuff you have the mentality vomiting you're your cheering on the edge it adds that there is a slippery slope that are mentioned but I believe that that part of that is really what you're personal motivation is and only only you know inside what your reasoning it did there's nothing wrong with scrutinizing your believe Sorvino being able to to know what you believe but if you go to do something with the motivation of trying to justify her own your own perspective your own agenda perhaps finding something that that meets your own experience or somehow makes you feel better about yourself that's not that's something that is an inherently divine and see others keep that in mind what is my personal motivation for why I'm doing this is it just a doubt was it really to define truth as want to mention as well that there is a text in a first Timothy six versus four he says he is I is restarted proceed as if any man teach otherwise consent not to be wholesome words even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ and to the doctrine which is according to godliness he is proud knowing nothing but dotting about questions and stripes of words were coming up envy strife railings and evil surmising and then he goes on to talk about other stuff as well there's another place where it talks about ever questioning but never coming to knowledge and truth there is there is a place to ask what what you believe and why you believe it and it is important for us to do that but at some point you've got to come to a point where we understand what we believe and beard and be decided to to stand upon it and sometimes sometimes people will for ever want to keep asking questions keep asking questions about things but he never really take a stand on anything they never really know what they believe it up and they're always taking in more information but they can never come to a decision and that is that is dangerous because if you do not come to a decision about what you believe in you'll never sent for anything and then you'll be blown up by about by every wind of doctrine as it is important that you do that at the same time when like Jim alluded to what you have to question your motives for wider your studying these things up sometimes it is good to study to learn sometimes some people learn what they ask questions just to raise up strife and if your study is leading to a place where you are coming to conflict deep conflict with those who believe who are your brothers and sisters in Christ and different show you from the Bible where you are in error and you just keep on using our your your material or what you believe at some point is it is not to be conducive just Virgil Grote all doctrine is there for reproof and verification but it's also to bring us into unity the knowledge of Christ and if we do not come into unity with the rest of our believers then that they believe in Christ that some point our studies in the next question please tell us a little more about how absences involved with foreign missions was foreign missions the evidence church began with the viewpoint that that they were before they would recall that Mister state they believe that they were to be the only chosen few that were left at the great disappointment and they believe that that that that door probation had been closed and so no one else could be recruited and into the gates of heaven however over time the favor through the Bible and an bioassay there is a changed some of those beliefs to where they saw the greater mission purpose and as a result the day started the missionary tract Society which would send tracks all over the world of different materials and Mrs. White was also given instruction by God that they were present when she said that young men should study other languages so that they can go and and translate and also preach the gospel in other languages and other countries and as a result they began to do that the first evidence missionary that was sent officially was Jane Andrews and he was sent to Europe and shortly after that there are some others that were sent as well to other parts of Asia and later Africa as well question is what are some of the current geological factions in the ad in the SDA church and where did they originate complicated question I guess in others she just looked at things in the big picture God raised via maintenance and Adrian talked about the development of prison each race back in the early eighteen forties and fifties and so forth and our church was relatively ideologically united plus or minus a few points here and there for example the ten horns in eighteen eighty eight that theologically the church pretty much had a harmonious unit of the lease until questions on doctrine came and you may wonder what topic questions on doctrine alter the theological landscape of absences while it said ministry magazine which went all the ministers trumpeted this book is the official position of the Seventh-day Adventist church eventually the leading theologians that are at most colleges and universities started to basically take hold of theology in this document created several different things I suppose at our places of higher learning the the approach that we are saved by justification only therefore we never stops until Jesus comes became the hi your theology on our main campuses throughout Adventism must probably what most of our young people are taught as they get your schools of course obviously there were some happiness you are not happy with the theology of questions on doctrine and the way dissent was dealt with during this time is questions on doctrine wasn't necessarily the greatest in the general conference and soon some independent ministries grew out of that who call themselves historic Adventists and they maintained the theological beliefs of Adventism prior to nineteen fifty seven and so you sort of have she way split developed in the church ought there were some other issues down there was at the same time that questions on doctrine was was creating controversy Robert Whelen and Donald short your missionaries to Africa had found beautiful light in the Canadian message so to speak and they wanted more information released from the General conference on the right for him he was the same guy that the GC issue is spearheading COD wouldn't let Welland in short have access to the materials on the white estate that pertain to eighteen eighty eight which created this idea of a conspiracy in the general conference people are always quick to latch on conspiracy theories perhaps I don't have any way we want in short were doing a good job in trying to get the Canadian message out there for them was preventing that from happening and so you had eventually eighteen eighty methods study committee developed through adding a special interest in eighteen eighty eight message so you have historic atmosphere making a thanks many of course does for the lesson last time to the questions on doctrine further developed in those and he encouraged those you accepted his teachings to stay with in the church so that they can have an effect on Adventism that because the church needed to understand the gospel of grace we didn't understand grace and there are many people today who have a one theological emphasis which is grace and their whole thing is as do you understand grace order they mean by that it comes from the Desmond Ford teaching switched is basically that because of God 's grace we are saved and we basically will keep on sending that Jesus loves us so much that he will save us by his grace and no matter what we do nothing week the can cause us to be lost so that's one of the prominent theological factions in the church or the other some of the other theological factions that have come into the church in more recent years there is this and even sure where this originates from I guess I've than once that I've mentioned at least give you some idea where there's theological concepts originated from that there is also a movement in the church called the character of God movement which basically teaches that God doesn't destroy that he is so merciful that he will not punish the wicked for their sins now there are some conservative anatomist to take a very high than six oh yes people who are sinners will die you know the second death the own that God is an actively destroyed and he just withdraws his presence and it's the withdrawal of his presence that causes the people to be destroyed which kind is against the clear the Bible on Steve Goldberg did a nice job of covering those issues when he was here for four months again there's also some factions out there that believe in feast keeping about the way to heaven there is other factions out there that teach that there is no Holy Spirit others the father the son and Holy Spirit is just the spirit between the teeth which goes directly against the clear statements from Alan Wiedemann topic that I think the main theological factions in the church if you look at it today you have what you talked about the GUI seamen which is a movement of young people who are trying to be faithful to the doctrines and the three angels message that God gave to this church and there is another faction that has accepted that does for idea and they want everything to be under graceful steel way with eighteen forty four and on why monstrous all of each other and get along you can believe what you want way lovely what I want to believe all go to heaven and then there's some other various theological groups that are out there with many particular perspectives anyway long answer I can mention something eight oh you can you can not at this time in many ways and throughout the history of the church there always been you know there's always reading tears and there's always a truth and error right and and I wanted minimizing into theological differences because they are out there but I believe that a lot of what makes these things even worse is the way we treat each other at some of these facts I believe even stemmed from the and we talked about some of them in a new union and elsewhere helped a lot of of how we treat each other for instance in eighteen eighty eight I went with EJ Wagner was was getting his talks he was he was getting these beautiful sermons on the matchless charms of Christ right and their people that were not in agreement with with him on on the table on places whatever they were at a rowdy and while you speaking they would shout out from the audience new child we can't see you in a week and they were alluding to the fact that he was short and they are trying to get under his skin there trying to to distract him from from his preaching and those types of spirits I believe is directly from Satan because because it's one thing we have the auto difference is that we need to go back to work and study for ourselves is nothing when when the character of Christ is so absent from us that we would treat her brothers and her sisters in such such a way and so I'm not minimizing the theological differences what I'm saying is that we can't treat each other with Christlike love then they were going to treat a lot of of division as well next question that elders Spicer opposed the buying of CME and can you tell us more about him in I I was the one that did the history of CME and to be honest I did not cover any of the spices in our involvement in the so I I I do not know what dates for next question what became of Joshua Hines William Miller and SSL after eighteen forty four Hans William Miller Samuel Snow each played a key role in the Millerite movement as you know William Miller of course was the creature that God raised up to point to the twenty three hundred a proxy Joshua Hines was administered at the chart and street shop from Boston to basically brought that message that William Mueller was given the small towns into the big cities and make newspapers and attack off and Samuel Snow with the man he set the date for October twenty two none of those three nine accepted the present truth of the Sabbath of the sanctuary unfortunately and Ellen White writes about how William Miller was failing in health and he relied on those who helped him namely Joshua Hines and she said that the Senate 's rejection of the Sabbath message and of the third Angels message rested on those two kept him from accepting a huge delight and they would be it down and so she says that angels guard the precious dust of his grave Nike will be resurrected she also says that he accepted the third Angels message that he would been revived in the work women finish that I would've been we won't be here but I was the Lord 's original plan and she said just as Moses aired just before going to the promised land William Miller aired just about foregoing and heavenly Canaan said William Miller was a modern-day Moses so to speak so he died December twenty eighteen forty nine five years of trading forty four Joshua Himes lived many years longer and eventually came down with cancer in Canada the Battle Creek sanitarium to be treated he found exchange some correspondence with Alan why you can read this in the Arthur White six volume set which is a biography of Ellen White and in those letters he tell also like that if he were a young man again he would give all of his life and energy to the proclamation of the third Angels message that God is the judge not us but it seems that he accepted your in his dying days the third Angels message patterns were teaching and Ellen White was able to have some dialogue with and that may have brought him to the truth Samuelson to set the date for October twenty Kim was used by God in a powerful way as best as we can tell guide became engaged in fanaticism after October twenty two UN eventually departed from the faith about a minute I remember I've read some mathematical behavior that he engaged in them I would be sort of making it up off the top of my head if I were to say right now scientists say he was engaged in some kind of fanatical behavior after eating for a formlessness as we know he left the faith set to remind us that even though we may be on the straight and narrow now and we can give a message that begins the midnight cry the Bible says let him thanks and let him the things he stands take heed lest he fall okay isn't sure either Adventists develop their doctrines out of fanaticism in the early seventh century conferences in other are some historians to send out and they say that if you look at the history of Adventism fanaticism in error have always been around and somehow out of fanaticism in error came forth truth and at the risk of being straightforward you have historians like George Nike say things like this however if you read Ellen White's writings you read about her in James Wyden Hiram Edson and Joseph Bates can mathematics as they were promoting truth so to say that James and Ellen Warren Joseph is in her medicine were fanatics and somehow the Lord impressed upon their minds truth while they were engaging in fanatical behavior is pure revisionism of history as best as I can tell and Ellen White was always fighting against fanaticism the Millerite spot against fanaticism and soon insists and I've heard people say here what there is fanaticism in the early happiness out of sanctuary conferences but the Lord blessed out of the so what do you have a problem with questions on doctrine even the freedom intentionally lied to change the nature of Christ because that was good for the church also and I don't buy either of those arguments obviously dishonesty is dishonest in that never glorifies God and fanaticism doesn't glorify God either and God work through those mechanisms to bring forth the truth in our church okay what happened at the nineteen nineteen Bible conference in nineteen nineteen by law conferences one class that we weren't able to to cover we thought about it but eventually read we didn't cover that and just briefly it was if you look at a time on the conference was right after few years after Mrs. what had passed away and the churches try to come to grips with what exactly to do with her writings where to place her in terms of the Bible she had always said that she was a messenger of the Lord and she was a lesser lightning the greater light and so they were there talking about that they also had some questions about the great controversy and one of the key figures was Prescott he was one of the church and ministers of the time and he was one of the leading members and in that conference one of the things also that they could have discussed so that was that the issue of of the schools in accreditation and education and possesses a wide-ranging conference with a lot of issues fortunately we were able to cover a lot of those but one of the things it did come out of it was they were talking about the great controversy and especially some of the richest ever made and how Prescott said that he was with Mrs. White wind when she made those revisions and those revisions are made rare in some historical darkness where from which he took since material for the first edition of the great controversy some of it was in a later lighting have been shown to be slightly inaccurate or not as representative as she wanted to be so she added some materials in the nineteen eleven edition but each one of those she personally presided over those changes and he was there while helping her through the process so are some of that was brought up ultimately all three of us I decided to pass on that on a conference but these are some of the issues that they but they explored next question what is the best way to address misinformation about our history while slowing to foster don't just take the historians were for don't take my word for history you can read for yourself and go back and study the issues go back and study the Bible and the writings of Ellen why for example Johnson Wagner or higher Mesmer Joseph days or even read passages from questions on doctrine for yourself to I guess the other thing I would say is that as as alchemist we have become prone to just take the scholar 's word for it and even double glass and ammunition is to be like the Koreans the study whether or not those things are so we should save herself we shouldn't have herself and just because it doesn't forget the fence is the scholar halted all agree that's it to be justified is to be declared righteous only while I don't care if all the scholars agree when Ellen White says that to be justified is to be made righteous I'm here with Ellen why over the scholars so I guess the way I've always thought is the Bible and the writings of Ellen why are the authority when it comes to doctrine on the stick with that in effect theologian comes along and he starts she he or she starts to say things that go contrary to the Bible or the writings of Ellen White you have a choice as to which which side you're in a boat leave and I will all think is going on when the said that if you stick with what the Bible and the writings of Ellen White say you'll save yourself from a lot of theological disasters in our time and mouse the best way I can think of she would avoid misinformation about our history okay next question is Tim mentioned fifteen general conferences in three years what were those years these of these were not general conference sessions like were used to thinking about an hour you know we don't have been every year and so these are actually these are actually just general conferences conferences that were general and so on it was the leaders leaders from this happen movement that would get together after this happened primarily limited by having him my notes but it was primarily in the years between eighteen forty and eighteen forty four so let me see what I have a natural date on that the first was in eighteen forty and fifteen more the next three years between eighteen forty nineteen forty three or so and fifteen General conference with you can you tell us the story of JM off coral and wake in Iowa Walker one of the JAMA for was converted to the abstinence message shortly after eating forty four he became one of the great preachers in the Advent movement he went around ten was an itinerant preacher relying on the money of the believers in the town that he went to to make a living he wasn't paid very well his wife was in a self-sacrificing this he was she complained him about the back pay he was getting Jane Anders actually invited him to come work in walk-on I was a carpenter to make some money sick JM who would be the equivalent of a mark in the air that bachelors left preaching to go become a carpenter to make mom him in time we can have Facebook Internet e-mail phones and so James Malm white didn't know that he'll laugh until I want my son in the vision the Lord told her that she needed to go to walk Iowa and get them back the other part of the stories is that this happened during the time the James White wrote the article to the latest CNN about how averages for the Laodicean church and there were maybe five to ten thousand members they got several hundred letter saying we needed to hear this but the one place letters didn't come from was walk Iowa so James and alumni take the sleigh from Battle Creek to walk Iowa that's probably what three hundred four hundred miles on it that's a good it's a good clip over and they crossed the Mississippi River on December twenty four there is like a foot of water of Rashida vice they risked their lives to give find these people associate about the love they have for souls and they arrived in Iowa and their slave girls and jam of her standing on a ladder nailing nails into a board and he looks down and there is God 's prophet staring up at him and she says Elder what do US now here Elijah when she says again what gives thou your visor and he still hasn't said anything them and she says what do us out here you'll like no response he comes down the ladder and says let's go take you down on your place to stay were quickly set walk-on that James and alumni had shown up to town and the reaction was outrageous you have a vision give us a testimony of review sounds like fun that's ultimately what happened on they got together had meetings and Jason Aleman were determined not to leave until they got Elder back and he wasn't quite ready to come back the first night was interesting is that his wife repented first she stood up and said I have been a bad minister 's wife I'd encourage them in the work that he should've been doing she recounted the next night out of a first set up instead I've held my hand the hand the hammer of a carpenter for the last time and he went back to the wife the battle creek right after that to need is a powerful preacher in the church from that point forward and soon Mister reminded us that we may think were doing good things that is if we've lost our focus for white ricin madness you know where the Laodicean church and it's very very easy way to see societal to that series that Jan Andrews you initially had it was one actually invites on the rock to come to walk-on he was there during the lower violent people understood what they had done and they repented of that needed to his health was so good that it will a while to recover when he recovered he rejoined the ministry and he also resumed is itself the service the church and so many people were impacted by that that very sacrificial trip at all quite made next question what did Ellen G White mean when she said that much of the preaching before eighteen eighty eight was dry as the hills of your boy helped me apply this to me well I the easiest way to explain matters is that is something that I think all of us are as you do sometimes that is when we begin to see truth we can sometimes and we can get excited about a system of truth learning doctrines right and we can forget that at those doctrines actually should point somewhere right to the cross and to the Christ of the Bible and so is during this time in an accident probably partly with the latest in message was trying to tell youngsters as well was that in their zeal for four mapping out all these doctrines that were present truth to them they had forgotten to include price and that kind of the kind of took all the power of the message and ultimately got had to do something very drastic to bring them back and that's what he needs on the I think also it is very easy when you when you Marseille for example in the evangelistic series in your preaching while the Sabbath to go from one text another you know it just just proving that the Sabbath really is the seventh day and you notice that is a day that has been kept since creation and then this is one example but it is very easy to become good hard-nosed about it and and preach a very logical sermon and people by the logic and common to the church but if you if you don't have the softening experience of Christ in your heart then you can preach all all you want but it will not it will not be showing your life and the message of the eighteen eighties the conference accommodating the conference was not really a change of beliefs it was just putting Christ back at the center of what we all believe and that is and that is what I was missing in the earlier years after making fifties limit is read a quote the note of the Cold War context okay that quote is asked under your review and Herald March eleven eighteen ninety 's what don't I wrote to sit as a people we increase the law until we are as dry as the hills of Gilboa that had neither dew nor rain that you said this we must preach Christ in the law as there will be sapped and nourishment in the preaching that will be as food to the Samsung flock of God to help you understand what she meant by drive sales of the Kabbalah course how would you explain to non- areas that William Miller and Ellen G White or not the founders of the Seventh-day Adventist church but it was a movement led by God but that was a movement led by God you know what you need to do is you need to go back in and read the stories of how this movement started I think this is an example of misinformation that can be out there and people they just know the little details of stories but they don't really know the big picture if you go back in and you read any find out what exactly happened it will be abundantly clear that that William Miller that well part of it is that he was actually a little reluctant to share the message for along time when he finally did it took a lot of a lot of different people come together to to do this and also the fact that he was never an Adventist TE did never fully accepted all the truths I mean I think it's some a factor missing when people because there's like an organic office specifically as to whether or not William Mueller Alan why were founders of the seven ministers clearly well you was not he did not accept sound however it is a historical fact that James and Helen Y and Joseph Bates were founders of the Seventh-day Adventist church and a long white being one that is not the only founder of our church to say that she wasn't wouldn't be wooden square with the facts either I mean she clearly did play a role in the founding of the Seventh-day Adventist church along with her husband James Y Joseph dates and higher medicine also played a key role but it wasn't one person William Miller certainly wasn't one of those and maybe what they're getting at is that all quite definitely was was very involved in the beginnings of the Adventist church but she never held a leadership role and that she left that your husband and others and so hers her role was a little different than maybe some of the other founders so it's probably just semantics I just want after that that I even went out to church I was out of what the right word is incorporated or was organized on the General conference the first junk office present was not James White it was some outer Byington I think and a good reason for having him there he was a very capable man for the reasons was that to avoid the fact that of someone saying that the James Whitehead you know the church in an image taken the reins of power so it is something to keep in mind next question what was the role of Robert Pearson in the desert for crisis or Robert Pearson was actually he was still GC president when the Palmdale conference in nineteen seventy six to replace the by the time the full deletion review controversy Richard Neal Wilson was president however as we discussed in our history class elder Pearson before Desmond Ford came out with his theology that basically split the church elder Pearson have the idea that it would be nice to bring the eighteen eighty eight message in its original form given by John the minor to bring those messages to the forefront of the church and he looked at the theological landscape and realize that many of the theologians and the church would take issue with what Johnson Wagner said about righteousness by faith in eighteen eighty eight and even though elder Shearson believed those messages he was afraid of by bringing it to the forefront it would at that time split the church and so he figured maybe by waiting for another time the timing would be better but what ended up happening is just a few years later Desmond Ford comes onto the scene and splits the church anyway on debt on Robert Pearson regretted to his dying day that he didn't bring that message back to the forefront of the church obviously I believe he was a godly man will seem in the kingdom that was a mistake that he made that he probably wished he could have next question why isn't that the truth about the geology and doesn't Ford is not often talked about because of controversy and people disagree there's a lot of sadness today to actually agree with Desmond Ford's theology at least on salvation they don't see anything wrong with his teaching that to be justified is to be declared righteous only and that will reach perfection before Jesus calms and the longer time has gone on people wonder why he had his credentials removed and even more so in our current day it's become acceptable to be a Seventh-day Adventist not believe that aging forty four has any theological significance so to talk about those issues then becomes viewed as being divisive and controversy over the bottom line is I said this before truth is not divisive it's the error that has been brought into our church that has been divisive so let's not be afraid of the truth remember with Ellie Pearson 's mistake was he was afraid of the truth of the message from eighteen eighty eight at eighteen eighty eight would split the church wall instead of the air were from Desmond Ford split the church so what's never back down from preaching the truth in a positive Christ centered powerful way home and the issues of security and doesn't for me to be brought up so that we understand the geological landscape so be it I would also caution the sale is not have COD Desmond Ford Sabbath school class where we talk about acuity and Desmond four for the entire quarter M.D. assistant illustration and make a point almost talk about the truth medicine one class unto you just in one class and doesn't forcibly understand the issues that's fine but it's been an entire quarter and is probably excessive also want to mention that a lot of these things happened twenty years ago and a lot of the ministers of that time or even or even earlier are a retired and sold some of the warriors of the time are gone to their retirement or have passed up in a passageway some are still still around I didn't remember how things work and at the point I want to make is that when you have been immersed in in this this is what theology you grew up with it you went to school with it your professors preached at on you learned it then that it's hard to deceive and see the different side and I just want to point out something that out of room wrote regarding the education of our ministers especially he says how dare men contemplate or have the temerity to present the degree of a doctor of divinity gain in the universities of Babylon as a credential for teaching or preaching this threefold message the second stipulation of which is that one is fallen is fallen come out of her my people how dare we accept such a Babylonian credential in lieu of mastery of the truth show man going to buy one to gain strength and wisdom to call out men of Babylon to ask the question is but to disclose how far some have compromised with that one as they have gone back to Babylon to drink from her wealth of wisdom over the living waters of truth are fresh from the work so this is something that the hero and the reality today is that many of of our young archaeological scholars are going to evangelical institutions and getting their degrees advanced degrees pass Andrews and as a result when they come back the they do have a different frame of reference and a frame of reference when brought up by some of the soap units of the evidence who believe the way Mrs. White in the Bible were originally that we believe as a result what happens is they view it as divisive because the have grown up and they have studied it all their lives and they cannot see a different picture medicine that is one of the reasons why it is his divisive this one side when it's ironic that we referring to talk about going to the Babylonian institutions and to come back and teach the three Angels messages when eventually he compromised with the church is about want to gain acceptance with Babylon so we wouldn't be identified as a call center he was clear thinking on the earlier point and then later on security he clearly compromised okay our final question of afternoon do you think this this could be the final generation and what is our role in ensuring that it happens only covered a lot of that morning and and one of the reasons that I brought up and I believe strongly in this is that we need to have young people that truly study to Bibles and and though the church 's history and understand the prophetic identity and mission all of our church but I believe is one other thing actually I didn't have recovered this morning all the talk about now if you really look at what then this view God is in Revelation ten you'll find that it actually have a lot to do with unity in the church with how we treat each other and how we love each other as I believe and of course I'm Nina Jesus prayed for the scene in John John seventeen is that God 's people will have not only their theology correct but they also price character and a half his love for one another and obviously we do stand for the truth and we need to know we believe but we also need CU know how to act like Jesus did and so as we learn to do this we will learn to get along and I believe it will bring a tremendous amount of unity in the truth and faithfulness to God 's word and that unity will be a major component to add to the final generation as well but I can happen if I just also want to talk more about that that unity aspect so that some of the reasons for rejecting or having issues with the age needed message where it really trivial the issues of the horns and then you know the back and forth and that signs my magazine and the really weird Harold just did not did not serve any anybody and in the same way some of the issues with Elder Froom and and a luxurious and even though militarism is a very conscientious man he was God-fearing he had met Ellen White he had even gone and researcher writings at her house and all that I I feel I feel that had he been a little more Christlike maybe things would have been slightly different and four for his opponents today to take that aspect of his life and in turn it around and say will he really he was the one who who talked about the final generation but he never a simplified and his life is to is is really a bad argument because our example is not and will interest his Jesus Christ and we should we should look to Jesus who is a author and finisher of our faith he is the one who when he was assailed in his in his trial did not open his mouth not in anger and answered it with you with all respect and was Christlike and in the same way today as weak as you have this this question session this dialogue when we talk with our friends about the Bible about truth in Suffolk that we need to make sure that we and as fresh as when we do debate the nature of crazy to make sure that we have the nature of Christ and others interfere or want about the nature crisis look at foot since chapter two and really have the mind of Christ and the Spirit of Christ and that that spirit of compassion and worked wanting to work with people Jesus worked with Judas yup till the very last moment that he couldn't even though he knew that use is working against him he worked for had for his salvation and we should do the same in terms of respect for for church authority for people that are our leaders in our church today we must have been must have respect for them and we must find ways in which we can work with them and I think that USC movement on this youth movement that God has raised up is working with the church of the highest levels of the church customer family and others are involved with this movement and what we want to present is that yes I I personally believe that this is that last generation and each one of us has a chance to be part of a hundred forty four thousand to see Jesus come in her lifetime and we we should devote all her energies to working together praying together and asking the Holy Spirit to come and bring us and lead us into all truth and when we do have issues of young points of doctrine that we dispute upon that we studied together and when everything has in set on the table that we we ask God to give us guidance and be follow exactly what the Bible says and I think if we do that if we have the right spirit I think that we need than globules work mightily with his people on just a little bit I'll be brief the question is should this be the last generation I believe obviously the answer is yes it could be Elmore says in Christ object lessons page sixty nine the very famous quote when the character of Christ shall be perfectly reproduced in his people then he will come to claim the masses in the Bible you see the concept of the four wins in Revelation seven being held back until the servants of God through the hundred and forty four thousand are sealed and therefore heads and the interesting point is that the that you points in history that we are at in Revelation six and seven network the train is between the fallen of the stars in eighteen thirty three in the second coming of Christ and as some party mentioned in Revelation China ties about the mystery of God being finished while the seventh trumpet sounding the seventh trumpet in the sound October twenty two eighteen forty four you can see that Revelation eleven nineteen when you understand the prophetic type into TM mission of the Seventh-day Adventist church that our identity is the remnant people our mission is to receive the seal of God in our four heads or another way of saying his art purpose in life is to be translated without seeing death and no other movement in history was error ever raised up for that purpose and Major Hardy hit the key points that have kept Jesus from coming all these years the church was theologically here for the first hundred years of its existence it had a profit in their missed anything about L1 why was with Adventism from eighteen forty four to her death in nineteen fifteen and even with Alan White in their midst they couldn't cross the finish line so what about us unite it all comes down to a personal choice on each for each of us every day are we going to be surrendered one hundred percent to Jesus Christ so they heal lives in us so the mystery of God can be finished in Jesus and when God has a group of people that keep the commands of God in the face of Jesus and they have the love of Christ completely in their hearts then the coming of Christ will not be long delayed and all the things that we've seen happen in the last few years are evidence that God is working to try to bring that last generation together so we can go and said may we be faithful may we do all that we can be surrendered to Christ that he can come in our lifetime okay well that concludes our question and answer it for this afternoon I hope you enjoyed it and are blessed for being here this is close with one of her holy father we thank you for those that were faithful in the past that paved the way for us to pray that you'll help us to not forget what you've done in the past that may keep you close is the as we prepare for the future NSB allow you to work through us to finish the work we thank you for this time we thanks for being with us for this retraining was Jesus he


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