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An Answer to Cancer

Zeno Charles-Marcel
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Many physicians are so overwhelmed by the often irrational approaches to cancer found on the internet and suggested by patients and their families that they overlook the use of rational non-oncologic interventions and whole-person care to improve health outcomes and encourage disease prevention. Dr. Zeno explores ways to address these issues.

Presenter

Zeno Charles-Marcel, MD, is a medical missionary physician, health educator, and academic and hospital administrator. His research interests include lifestyle medicine, and the connection between spirituality and health. He studied physics and physiology at McGill University, and zoology and medicine at Howard University. He specialized in internal medicine at Loma Linda University. He is currently the vice president for medical affairs at Wildwood Lifestyle Center and Hospital, and holds academic appointments at Montemorelos and Loma Linda Universities. He and his wife, Anita, have three sons.

Recorded

  • May 12, 2017
    2:00 PM
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Let's start with a word of prayer. Our Father in Heaven Lord we thank you so much for giving us the opportunity to meet and to discuss and to learn from each other and to improve our service to you and to our patients. Tell you have worked at Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Institute in New York. I was the president of the student cancer society of three medical schools in Washington D.C.. I the product I have been the director of the lifestyle center of America in Oklahoma. And I've been involved with we more and Wildwood and lifestyle centers. For a long time. And people come to us in any of those settings. With cancer. But those who come to a lifestyle center often come with a lot of other issues. And I'd like to start off by presenting. A case now this is this is actually a real case. We'll call her Angela. Thirty nine year old white female attorney presented with a history of scanty whitest white dish discharge from her right nipple about six months duration. The discharge was barely visible and she had not yet noticed it in her undergarment because it would stick to her right nipple she came in to seek medical attention only after she developed itching in the right nipple and areola region there was no history of mass or pain in the breast and with no mass she thought it would just go away. Do you guys know anybody like that or have you seen in your practice somebody who comes in with with issues that are similar. The. Clinical evaluation did not reveal any mass in the underlying breast axillary or so books of the killer regions the discharge was thick and why Dish in color. But still scanty that we had to have gentle massage to extract material from making smear psychological evaluation of the nipple discharge me assured highly Pleo morphic cells with magic nuclei prominent nuclear life course chromatin pattern and increased nuclear cytoplasmic reach. That's the case and all of which indicate. Was wishing that we could cuz it's much nicer to give good news than to give bad news right. So the day. It's cancer. And somebody has to tell her it's cancer. Of Angela's a seven they're venting. And Angela says. I want this treated natural. Now if I have been. The Dr confronting this situation once it's been a thousand times. What does she mean by treating it naturally. What do you think. No chemotherapy. You think that's it that's all very I would also agree. I would know radiation. I would know nothing. How about Dr give me some Essiac. There must be some herb that's out there that will take care of this. Right. Now I don't. I want to polarize things just in that direction because this isn't always the case. But what do you do when this is the case. Now I wish we had the whole afternoon to be able to talk about how we would approach. Somebody like this but we don't so we have to move forward. But we need to understand cancer creates an existential crisis a spiritual crisis in just about anyone even someone who says I'm an atheist. There is something that happens with them. Because now the they feel. Mortal. And cancer has an uncanny way of doing this. To people. The diagnosis of cancer usually there is deep spiritual questioning about life and death even for people who say that they're not spiritual Now of course there are some people who just don't care I remember having one guy who said you know he was. He was culturally Jewish. And of all of the patients. Home with whom I had a relationship and would usually accept us to have a. Prayerful encounter with each other this man. Is one who said no. No. He used foul language. When his when he got the diagnosis of lung cancer. He was foul language when the therapy was not working. He used foul language when he had. Superior in a cave or syndrome and he came into the hospital drowning in his own secret missions. Before bade me to pray. I didn't obey. Because you don't always have to pray with somebody. You can pray for them. He fought big me and the rest of the team from calling any of his family members. We disobeyed. We called. He said he didn't believe in God. But nuclear cytoplasmic rich. This was all indicative of high grade malignancy so the mammogram was positive showing extensive microcosm vacations and I have those this is the site ology and you can't really see this but you can see some bills pickling there those are the microcode everything resolved and he died in peace I don't know if he died in peace. But he died. And he appeared to be. At peace. He had family in New York and San Francisco and they came down and they surrounded him. And even though he said I shouldn't and we shouldn't inform them this was therapeutic for him he had issues that he need to deal with. Cancer. The existential crisis of cancer is commonly referred to as a search for meaning the crisis is a psychological one in the spiritual one mixes psycho social psycho spiritual issue here's what one person says the tragedy of cancer often holds the seeds of grace that wakes us up. Farfel trauma of cancer can open people to really profound spiritual issues what does it mean to be human. Being one of my gifts what is my purpose why am I here. People go through some of this they won't always tell you and I would suspect that there are some people who probably don't go through this but I'll tell you. That most of the people that I have seen with a cancer diagnosis that. They go through some kind of questioning like this. And so to work with them is a very special. It's a privilege for us to be there with someone with cancer. So we had to discover. What people's questions are in Angela's case her question was why. Why do I have. Breast cancer. Why. Now do you think I can and I can ask answer that question. When I was a medical student. I remember with people with heart disease and whatnot you know I learn pathophysiology and I really like people saw I would explain to them and I draw you know those things out. All the. You know the the covers that we had on the paper covers paper the nurses would kill me if they found me writing anything else but the paper covers on the other thing I would draw. Pictures and whatnot and they really enjoyed that but but at the end of the day they oftentimes were not satisfied with my explanations even though I explained to them the pathophysiology and one day it occurred to me that I was asking or as I was answering a question that they were not asking they were asking a bigger What I question. They were asking a transcendental question why. I and I was giving them a pathophysiological that's. Why Angela's question I have no family history I live healthily I'm a Christian I'm a vegetarian I watch my weight I have a clean conscience regarding my work why is this affecting me. The answer you are a human being. Living on planet Earth. I don't know of any better answer. Of course I wouldn't say it that way to ensure. We have to approach it. But this is how it is. And we heard and so if it's going to it's going to grasp at things and she's going to go on the Internet and she's going to call up her friends and she's going to find some stuff OK that says this will give me hope there is something that I can do I don't have to suffer this thing and I'm not going to take those poisons if Angelo were to say that I should not be upset with Angel. I should in fact have compassion for her. But the medical literature is replete. With. Reports of doctors and their response to people who who are who who want to go this route of these weird their appease these these things that are unproven that they go on the Internet they find some kind of stuff and they go to the doctor's office and say I don't want to have the poison that you're going to give me give me this. And how do we answer that and however there Bendis who have a health message and all of this good stuff how do we approach someone who comes with a story and who wants to do things differently from what we might believe might be the best way to go how do we do that and what's the what's the issues that we have to deal with behind it well I. I've found that to understand some of the limitations of what we know and what we don't know and understanding what cancer is and how can so works it has helped a lot of patients. To come to a better understanding even though I can't answer that why question. You see we don't treat cancer. And we shouldn't treat cancer. Now before you. Before you think I'm not scientific or another doctor you see we treat people who have cancer that's what we do we're treating people we're not treating the cancer. And so our focus really has to be on people. And then we can explain to them the process of cancer the natural and unnatural things about cancer and that usually. Brings us to a better understanding as we move along with what we're going to do about this. Each patient is an individual. You cannot see. Because that person was treated this way and that's what happened then if I do the same thing here this is going to happen too. I'm sorry it just doesn't work that way. We might wanted to work that way. But it doesn't work. People have body mind and spirit. And when we are working with them especially with something as grave as cancer is. We need to take care of the whole person. We need to deal with them physically mentally and spiritually. Even if they deny the spiritual part. We have to be sensitive to it. I mean it. And sometimes the questions about what they will do physically have their origin. In what they believe spiritually. Additionally what they're going through with a cancer diagnosis is not just a body diagnosis. They have a spiritual issue and they have mental psychological issues that are happening with them as they're going through this. This is from an organization. And you can find on the internet this is copyrighted stuff but but the idea and the ideas here that they're expressed are very germane we need to be able to notice what's going on with the individual. We need to pre even if not with them pray for them we need to listen and I will talk more about that we need to ask questions that we need to ask questions in in a sensitive and meaningful way that will lead to either revelation on the part of the individual. Or getting closer to an answer that the person is requiring We need to love them we need to be welcoming of them we need to facilitate their doing better and working with their family and working out and for us in general in our offices and what we need to work together and serve together so that our staff is actually as sensitive to what's going on with our patients as we are and sometimes they might even be more. All right so now here we're going to go with the. The stuff cancer occurs or is as a result of a. Genomic abnormality mostly developed after birth and accelerated incidence after age. This is the reality this is the commonality of cancer. All of the things that we know about cancer this we can say for sure cancer is a genetic problem. But it's not a hereditary problem. In the sense that not most cancers most cancers are not hereditary in the sense that there is a genetic marker for this cancer and that passes on no. But I want to say that some of it is passed on. In families just the same. Some of it has to be passed on Epi genetically right and we talked a lot about that last night but some of it is passed on by the habits and the lifestyle that the parents have that the children grow up in and that becomes normal for the children. So if we have an uncle genic lifestyle by the parents they transmit an uncle genic lifestyle to the children. So we learn to live that way and that's normal. But we are inviting cancer. And this this process the older we get the more likely we are to get cancer. Because we have an accumulated effect over the years as our cells replicate and we're going to talk a bit more about that but I think a lot of mention it here every time our cells one cell replicates OK It leaves. Two or three. Miss. Or abnormal replica. D.N.A.. Replications in the progeny. So much so that right now I can tell you that. All of us OK since we're more than at least a year old all of us our selves are not equal to each other. Because the errors that their current. Are not systematic. So we all came Erich to use that nickel term because our cells are not really equal. We start off being equal but when they multiply. This one may have errors you know in you know chromosome twenty six and this one may have errors in gross on twenty nine but these things just accumulate over time. They don't necessarily cause any problem per se. But later on because of this accumulated genetic aberration we might end up being more prone to developing cancer. You see. I believe that when we were created not only the process of replication was perfect but God put in place and we have it up to today a system of checking to make sure that the replication is perfect OK. I know some of you may remember back when we used to have floppy disks anybody here remembers floppy this OK A few are correct and if you remember when we were when you had to make a copy of the disk it was at least a two stage process. It would have this thing going across the screen that looked saw LHO and he would see copying any of the five percent and six percent seven percent and you know and it's going across and cross and finally it gets one hundred percent but instead of your being able to dig that this code. There was another process that went through anybody right. Well there was very fine very fine and it was just as blistering the right until it was all done and now you can take the discard how do you think they learned that that should be the process for. From our D M E OK they were replicating a process a biological process that got put into place but here's a problem because of sin and this is now my my view if you want to see this in any science book or take my view is even the process of replication and the process of verification tainted by sin so verification is not one hundred percent anymore so what we end up with is a system in which it's certified OK yes this is the progeny but the progeny has some errors and it's not perfect. And therefore we have this problem. Because that will give a problem later on when we are transcribing genes if this is a part of a gene it can cause a problem later on right. OK so how do these mutations and these problems occur now most of you may remember this from medical school or residency or or somewhere but you know we can have deletions a piece of a chromosome it's just gone in the progeny it's gone it never got passed on we have duplications So we have one thing and it was copied twice so the next chromosome that is the progeny ends up with two pieces of that now if both of them get turned on. You have double the product. And that may be a good thing. As well as maybe a bad thing. We have in versions. So. Set of. Reading one two three four five it might be reading Five four three two one. And you might say well that's not a big problem. But yes it would be if you were to go and you were to try to find where I live and I live on one two three four five Oakwood drive. That is not the same as five four three two one zero could drive. You know what somebody else is else all right so so that's an issue and then. We have insertion so we have one. Chromosome here we have a piece that's put into it right it's going from chromosome four put in the chromosome twenty and now we have this this weird combination of things and these things happen with us and I want to see all the time. Every day the estimate is that we produce. About ten thousand abnormal potentially cancerous cells. Every day. But most of us don't get cancer. Because we have backup systems God put backup systems in place. OK So what happens we have environmental agents that damage the D.N.A. chemicals radiation viruses etc So the normal cell actually when it goes through its bombarded with this stuff. It goes through there's some D.N.A. damage and then there's successful repair but there's still a trace that there's a problem right. And then sometimes you might have a failed repair and that fail repair. Leads to mutations and somatic cells activation of growth promoting uncle genes impaired apoptosis In other words the cell does not die the way it's supposed to die it lingers on right and we may actually have him activation of tumor suppression genes and. And therefore we end up with these altered gene products proteins abnormal structure regular proteins and then we produce from that a malignant tumor. We're going to go through this process a couple of times but this is this is more or less a schematic of what happens when we form cancer we start off with normal cells and with a series of irregularities we end up with an abnormal cell and that's still does not die the way it should it doesn't listen the way it should it doesn't function the way it should it becomes Cortana MOUs it's a rogue OK. Now if we look at this from the point of view of what may do this what may cause this damage we have some and dodging us things over on this side and we have some exotic gardeners things of on the site smoke radiation metals viruses other Jeannot toxins can damage the D.N.A. and this committee passed on all we have been dodging is things that related things like buy a license microfiche a neutrophil produced reactive. Oxygen right species that can cause D.N.A. damage and what other things that will do this exercise or not exercise rest or not rest emotional distress all of which indicate. She has a problem. Now do you think when she came she really wanted to have this day losses. You know. Do you think the doctor who was taking care of her. Because there are some church attending people who actually have worse health because they attend church because their relationship with God in their relationship is a guilt laden do's and don'ts one and this has been shown to be actually detrimental to the health as opposed to a positive influence on the health OK So church attendance abstain. You know being a little bit choosy and not eating as much as we might often like OK even fasting co-morbidities if we have other illnesses these things will affect what happens with US Chemical Ali whether we're able to cope or we're coping well whether we have metabolic programming from when we were in mother's womb whether we have the metabolic syndrome what's happening with our micro biome all of these things are fact the chemical constituency of our bodies and this produces an environment in microenvironment around our cells and those cells will respond to that micro environment the cells exist in soup. And we have a part to play in making that soup. Where we live how we live what we do what we choose whether we exercise we don't exercise whether we sleep you know what's happening with us emotionally etc All of these things affect this and this will affect our ability to. Be able to produce. Several of our spring that are in good shape or not we have genetic predispositions we have life stresses we have prenatal insoles you know real life stresses if these things out way that we end up with this is if they don't we end up with no disease OK so if we look at this we can see. We have all these ingredients. These are all risk factor things and we put them in the pots and what we end up with is a soup and that soup is a migrant environment in which our cells live. That migrate environment. How we make it or how it is made makes all the difference in the world. Because what's in the migrant Vironment will influence. What that cell. Becomes exposed to and therefore the pressures on that cell for its replication. So. We could have called this one making good soup. Because the things that we can do to help make the soup better and there are things that we can do to help make the soup worse OK So we have a normal cell that cell because of what is believed in me have chemical carcinogens that will induce a change we end up with a tumor cell and then from there we have progression of that tumor so because it will have variants of that cell that will produce different cell lines because all of them will have offspring so we have proliferation of genetically unstable cells some of them will die off because they can't sustain. Independent life but some of them will move on to produce a tumor and that tumor may be a true intellects Panshin of surviving variants a little all of the cells in that tumor may not be the same. And that produces a problem for us when we have to treat it. Because we have something that will work for ninety five percent of the cells in that tumor. But five percent would be resistant to what we're trying to do you get the idea. So this is looking at what kinds of approaches we can use there are things that might be blocking agents that will block the D.N.A.. Repair. Process these things are chemo protective right we have things that might suppress going from initiation to promotion initiation and going back and D.N.A. repair this is a reversible process but once we get the promotion it's no longer a reversible process you see there are some things that you saw some things that you're going wonder. Direction you can't go backwards OK. I was going I like to tell this story I was going on and on a trip with some. With a group of young people and they said you know you're really going to enjoy this you're really going to like this OK. And yeah it was it was pretty good but we got to this this part on the trail where you had to jump over a waterfall. OK. It was about us I'm not exaggerating about that much OK I had to jump all right. And of course I was not as young as the other people who were with me and they said oh good choice and they went over right and I'm looking at this and I'm thinking. I wonder what's down there in the water. Well finally I did I jumped over everything was OK I got out of the water and they said good that's the little one. The little one all know where we're going there's a bigger one you were really like that right at which point I said it's OK I'm going back. Here was the problem how do you jump up a waterfall. You can't I couldn't go back. So I went on and I found another road. OK it took me quite a bit to get back. But I did I did not go over that other waterfall but the point I'm trying to make here is there are some things when you go one direction you can't go back you jump down jumping up that distance I can't do it I can't climb up a waterfall right and so something some processes in the cells when they when they move in one direction. When they get there there is. No process in that cell for it to go back to what it used to be before. Now some of you. If you're like me I've worked in the computer industry. You do something with your computer. And there is no undo. Have you ever experienced that no undo. This is what happens with cancer there is no known undo. So you move from here and you move on. And there has to be something else that has to work with this system once you have cancer what you're going to do with it right. Now God has put in us some really interesting systems to help deal with this I just thought we would talk about this little war here because we have to fight against this our bodies are at war against cancer cells and we're producing them all the time today you're producing about ten thousand I am to OK So if we look at normal cell life. And the cancer cell the normal cell is one that's for life the cancer so means death right and the normal cell is orderly the cancer cell is a rogue the normal cell is obedient You know ourselves as such so obedient that if we get a cut and we have to heal we heal up to the surface and no more it doesn't continue unless we have kilos or some of it just comes up then you know how it does that right it listens to the other cells that they have to hear no more right. The liver you can take a piece of the liver transplant it and it will produce a liver that seems about the same size of the liver that you originally had why is because it has programming to say it's up to here and no more. But when you have a tumor it doesn't respect any of those boundaries right. Not obedient are normal cells A team players cancer cells autonomous normal cells work for harmony they're harmonious cancer cells lack harmony normal cells are interdependent one depends on the other the cancer cells where they are pseudo independent because they are dependent on something right there dependent on the human being to live they're not very smart I mean their cells go they're not very smart because if they had their way they will win and when they lose their day. It's a stupid system somebody ought to talk to them and tell them Look this is this is not getting you anywhere. That we care. I want to tell you I see a relationship between the way we look at cancer and the way things are happening to what happens with sin can you see the similarity you know. Normal cells follow the rules cancer cells forcefully takes from others normal cells provide. For others cancer cells their success brings death and destruction. For the system. But God didn't leave us defenseless he gave us a cancer surveillance system but that too has been affected by sin so it's not perfect. I wish we had some little guys like this that we could just inject. That goes around look for the cancer you know gets rid of it right. OK Well because of genetically because of the genomic abnormality abnormal proteins are expressed on the membranes of cancer cells and can usually be recognized by immune cells such as T. cells site of toxic T. cells natural killer cells LAX or limb for crime activated case cells. E.C.C.'s or antibody payments I. Talks excels and macrophages or can identify which is a cancer cell and which cell is normal as a matter of fact they have even show on this and I wish I had some of those slides with the cells extending this to the boards touching the cancer cell or touching a normal cell. Looking for the markers and if. The markers are not there that are expected usually each early histocompatibility markers if they are not what they're supposed to be. Then those cells they hang on. They. Use a protein called micro pour in red and they make a space between themselves and the. And the tumor so they inject some. Toxic enzymes and then they pull back and of course they kill that So this is what they do. So they look for markers right this is a cell that has a marker for T. cells so the killer T. cells attach to see that marker they know this is a cancer cell they attack that however they don't have markers for the M.K. cells or the natural killer cells so therefore the natural killer cells cannot affect that particular cancer so on this side we have killer T. cells that don't have any place the dark so they they don't affect this cancer cell but with this one we have markers on the surface that are expressed where the natural killer cells can attach and once they attach they know so they begin to produce and the bodies that are against those markets other T. cells other T. lymphocytes and other mark of ages come and they see that and so now what you have is an army that's poised to see if you see this marker kill it OK and they go after it they go through the body looking for those things. Here we have a site or talk sixty so and they're performing on the ground as I am so what they do is they look for the marker they have the marker and therefore if there is a market they know that the target cell they inject their. Their. Enzymes and lo and behold. They can sell. In this case they're looking for markers on this side of toxic T. cells sees the markers that. The specific markers that they're looking for and they can kill the tumor cells that way however in the absence of that they don't have it but because of the other markers that they have the encased cells will be able to attack that and kill that so we have we have multiple backup systems for looking at cancer cells and destroying them right now there's a reason why I'm telling you this. Because on the one hand if we can prevent the cancer. From developing That's a genetic issue that we're dealing with and we can take care of the cancer that we don't have to have the cancer if we can prevent it Additionally if the cancer is being developed in the initiation stage in particular that's reversible if we can do something to intervene and make it go backwards then that will be helpful if we have another way something that's toxic to cancer cells and we give that we can kill the cancer cells without having to use the immune system. The other is of course to enhance the immune system in such a way that the immune system will be able to find these cancer cells and take care of them that way so we have one that's a defensive posture. The other one is an office of posture and then we have a third option which is to go after the cancer cells ourselves with some other kind of armamentarium. OK let me go to this one. So here is the schematic We have cancer how do we approach it. On one side we kill it. On the other side we support the killers. I'm I making sense so this is direct killing of the cancer this is supporting the things that kill the cancer and them how do we kill it we can either starve it or we can poison it. It can't it can't survive we poison it well it's toxic right on this side if we're supporting the killers what we're looking for is either to increase the numbers or to increase the function. Now here's what we shouldn't do while we're doing this we shouldn't feed the cancer. We shouldn't feed the cancer. And on this side we shouldn't tie the hands of the killers of the cancer. And here's the marvelous thing. The so-called natural approach that we use. Of using diet and exercise and those kinds of things. They don't feed the cancer. They starve the cancer. And they support the killers and they don't tie their hands. And we can do that lateral. Idea like that. Now am I telling you that we're going to cure cancer that we know but what we do is we give our bodies if fighting chance. So that whether we use this alone. Or we use it in combination with poisons toxins surgery you know. Now we have to deal with what is it that that person wants to do as they understand the context of what can be done. So what we say is we make good soup what good soup does is it strengthens the killers that is those say the toxic T. cells and the natural killer cells in the A.D.C.. C. etc and we inhibit the growth and the spread of the offender so we don't we want to stop it in its tracks we wanted to not produce the and your genic factors that would bring in the blood supply and therefore cause it to proliferate and spread elsewhere right away we're doing we're cutting off its supply right. Now how do we do that. Well these things here on the left. Either scientifically have been shown to affect. Cancer cell survival. In vitro and in laboratory animals and some in humans Here's what it exercise can you believe that that physical exercise but not too much. Actually helps in treating and preventing cancer. OK. A marathon is too much OK and here's the reason why too much becomes a problem when you when you accede. The the threshold you end up depressing the immune system. So that's a problem we don't want to do things we don't want to do things that will depress our immune system. Getting adequate rest. So you can ask me how much is enough right but not too much OK And and for most people we're looking at seven to eight hours for twenty four hours better at night. OK And again with the Chronobiology and what we mentioned a bit about that last night. This has been shown also in cancer because of the cancer cell cycles and even the therapeutic agents that we use. To treat cancer they have a crow pharmacology. There are some. Cancer treating agents that if you use it at the right time the amount that you use is much less and the toxicity is very little OK So that becomes an issue emotional distress. Being at peace anxiety depression guilt fear these gratitude forgiveness this is a big what I'll tell you. In my practice in lifestyle medicine where people come with with cancer I have found somewhere at least seventy to eighty percent of the individuals they can tell me within the last five years. Of some event some issues that occurred with them. That they haven't gotten over yet. They have this traumatic thing and they're holding on to it they're still holding on and sometimes when you talk to them their hands do this kind of stuff. And they get tense and their jaws tightens up right or they begin to cry or they shake. Or they get steely and they look into the future or they say I don't want to talk about it I do you guys know what I'm talking about you know. And I say that when you have to give up. You have to come to grips Yes yes he DID YOU HE DID YOU REALLY bad you need to forgive him. Because to not forgive him. Is like drinking poison and expecting him to die. Doesn't work badly. You. And if you're like me it's hard to forgive. And that's where being forgiven by. God. Through Jesus Christ makes all the difference in that. When we realize the depth of his forgiveness for us. Forgiveness clear conscience. Social Relations church attendance that's it you've seen this before we had it before right and then. Helping patients here are just a few things that I tell patients look this is not an exhaustive list and I'm not trying to exhaust you with this one but I tell them. Regardless of what kind of therapy you're going to use if you decide to use anything. These are things that have been shown to be helpful right so here are some of them one a total vegetarian diet or a pattern now I can show them the research that shows cells in. Vitro. That have the cancer cells that have been bathed with the. With blood from people who are vegetarian and people who are well total vegetarian of ours and. And lacto vegetarian etc Right and you look at the proliferation of those cancer cells. All of them are reduced OK by being placed in broth from people with these different dietary habits but it's most reduced in the people who are total vegetarian. That's. That's THEIR that that's literature you can show that right abundant vegetables. And then we're going to get into the debate about raw and cooked in juice and small the whole or right yes rah rah do roar right but there are some things that you ought to cook for instance are you aware that lycopene is you have more like a pin from the tomato if it's cooked and if it's cooked with some acid right and. It's not some magical turning on what it is it's a system transform of lycopene right and when you cook it and you have acid you get a form that is much more bioavailable to us so so there's some things that we need to cook or juicing and what I'm not going to get into that debate that's not the purpose of this talk we can do that some of the time much fruit specific foods herbs that we can use medicine early and there are lists of these things and there are books that deal with this. The things that have been shown in animals the things that have been shown in humans M.D. Anderson some years ago looked at something as simple as garlic right simple as garlic they found twenty seven. Organic compounds in garlic that were two months suppressing twenty seven. So I want to come around and I'm going to be not just looking and listening to you I'm going to be smelling you. If I can't smell the garlic then you're not doing what you know I'm just teasing you. But stuff like this this is this is the rigor All right we should fight health care Seventh Day Adventists health care providers is to help people with their hope and to keep them. With their eyes on the prize because we have a bless it hope there's a day when we'll have normal or pain no more sorrow no more crying no more dying no more cancer all of this will be passed only right so hang on until then. And yes. Some people die. They do everything that they can and they die. But we pray that they die with the blessing. And one day. One day Jesus. We'll call that any. And the trump of God will sound. I am looking forward to that. We need to help people to have peace and to make reconciliation with God and with others you know that famous story of Hezekiah when when the Prophet went to him and said Hezekiah this is on to death you know he gave prescription of what to do make right make things right because you're going to die get your your house in order well yes you know we need to tell people. We to help them. Sometimes Well of course you know they go through a whole cycle of denial and whatnot so so we work with them along with this we use motivational interviewing with them and we kind of get from them the things that they're willing to do at this time but we have to help move them along not saying that they're going to die but rather. To help them to make the decision as to what they want to do about this this invader that they have sleep rest recreation outdoor living God and spiritual nurture. And then of course the appropriate medical attention these are the things that we that we recommend for everyone OK. Now. We need to avoid answering the question What would you do if you were in my situation they are patients that ask you that doctor what would you do if you were me right what would you do. So how do you answer that. How do you. With If I were you I would Is that what was it. WILL BE VERY don't go that don't go don't. I usually say first of all you're putting me in an awkward situation. Because as much as I know about you. I don't know everything about you I am not really in your situation so I don't know what I would do if I were in your situation because I can't understand your situation. And what is important is not what I would do but. What you would. Would you like me to help you with that. Let's move to something else what would you do here some of the facts right. I have found that most people make decisions based on fear. So I try to find out what they're afraid of. When it comes to cancer fear what are your freedom. Pain suffering guilt. I may have caused this and I tell you our church is not. Easy on people who get sick. We're not easy. We're not easy and if you happen to be a church leader or a physician or health leader or some health person and you get sick in the church. You might want to change churches. I have known people who have done just that they can't face their friends and colleagues because they know they're going to be judged by them. We should create spaces. Where people are not judged but loved. And it's not to condone somebody who's doing the wrong thing or the bad thing or what they know they shouldn't do they. Already know that. They already know that instead we should help encourage them in doing something better that our speech be always with grace seasoned with a little salt so that we may know how we are to answer it. So listen respectfully with your ears and with your heart try to understand what is said and probe for what is not said. We should use motivational interviewing we should help them widen their consideration as appropriate sometimes people are too narrow in their view and they can't see. The horizon is there some people who are very selfish about what they're thinking. They don't realize that their decision and their whatever that might be actually is going to affect all of the people who they love and who love them. So somebody who says it's OK I can die I've no problem no problem with dying right who's going to come to your funeral Well everybody expect all these people to come to their funeral so what do you think they will be saying when you die. You think they'll be happy and say oh she's dead now everything is but I. Know there are people who miss you. Consider them too. That's what I mean by widening there there are races of that so they're making a decision that's not just. You know always me focused on on this. Alone Yet at the same time help them to keep their focus on what's important what is important and that's where motivational interviewing helps what is important you gently debunk the myths and the life commands not to convince them of another way. But to help them to find the truth and to be freed by that truth. And give the patient time to resolve. Issues and give the family time to resolve issues too don't over promise. No your own limitations. As a physician sometimes it's hard for us to say I don't know. But it's important when we don't know. That we at least know what we don't know. And we don't pull the wool over the patient's eyes as if we knew. But we can always find out and if we can't we can refer the person to someone. Help them cycles virtually and help them to use a biblical worldview. This is the worldview that we espouse and involve other professionals. And helpers as appropriate there are some people who are lonely. And you know what what they need. Someone to listen they need friends. And we can help supply them because we have a church filled with people. Sometimes they need counseling. We may be able to refer them to a counselor who will spend time with someone who is of the same mindset that we have in being able to care for people. And not just treat them like a number. And ultimately. Thoughts changes and I hope today both of us would change. Thank you very much this media was brought to you by audio first a website dedicated to spreading God's word through free sermon audio and much more if you would like to know more about audio verse if you would like to listen to more sermons leave it at W.W.W.. Or.

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