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Logo of Michigan Camp Meeting 2016: The Harvest is Great

Pioneers and the Trinity- Part 1

Daniel Scarone

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Recorded

  • June 12, 2016
    9:30 AM
Logo of Creative Commons BY-NC-ND 3.0 (US)

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I'll take you for a freshman morning here. In. Tray form movies. Make it. Stands to. Reason. This you race murder scene in this is. Like. I. Falls in Lawrence. Kansas and. The topic off of the. Of the Trinity. We are going to we're going to do something like this maybe it's better. I'm not up Tom interest but I think the contrast is better here now they're the topic of. Of. Of the Trinity. The second line of of of revival issue nowadays. So my idea is this with you in order to. To to a start working together or ponder this I prepared this work. On the Trinity essentially the title is The God we worship because every single moment in which we are. Worshipping the Lord we are are seeing in songs regarding dog regarding Jesus under God in the Holy Spirit you know and finally the world we worship. And that's a reason under Russia not for the title of of the book however in the book you're going to find out and please. Struck the references base upon first the Bible because I am trying in the book or I try in the book to. To work out the foundation of this is more book. Based upon a simple text coming from the Bible Old and New Testament basically that is that is the Russian or. Regarding the quotation filling she white I pulled them all of them in the back of of the book Why because if this is going to be shampoo in the hands of some Pentecostals eventually cols or somebody else they're going to say well so in the event is a base only in elenchi white writing and I am going to say no that is not truth what we are going to be days is upon the Bible and we are going to examine some of the information coming from the Bible saw in the presentation in the morning what we are going to do is I I am giving this to you to review and evaluate and if you have questions we're going to open a moment in the afternoon to do that today I'm going to start with a question I receive four for the topic or regarding the the Trinity and they got him. And we are going to evaluate what is the foundation of the topic in the Palio nears of the seven there then to chart. There is a kind of revival today. And this is not. And there were Angelica revival buddies that kind of revive of the topic of the. Question in regarding the topic of the got in the charts. Recent why here at the beginning I'm going to review with you and I've been telling him go when when I began to this say in go this is not a theology class this is for laypeople for if if I'm going to do my presentation in the charts I'm going to do it this way you know. This are our beliefs if you will into the Internet and you see and you ask yourself what the seven they have then to church believes OK these are our beliefs. And this is what we called the The twenty eight fundamental beliefs first is holy scriptures The second is the trinity with that name and we are going to explore by the way about the word Trinity what he said our belief in regarding our position to gether with the Kali system because some people say. Catholic ward and this then we are Cup in into the sun and then to charge something coming from Catholicism by the way it is an answer in the book and there is a section of question and answer and there is an answer for that but we are going to detail about that and you are going to see we believe in the Father the Son On Holy Spirit so when when you are or somebody stay now in the. The Trinity certain sense they are impacting the concept of holy scriptures is impacting our second point of belief on all the for all of defeats and sometimes all together so that is part of the problem that we are having here by the way there are some stores in the church in which there are people questioning the creation. Also. Years ago when I was in. California I was with one of the Eventually of the General Conference in one place in which there were several So in the event of churches and he says to me then when. You look around here there are several seven or so in there than to churches and I don't know how many of them believe twentieth when the middle believes. So one think in that diving in to say well maybe we need to review about about that so the nature of humanity the great control over C.C.A. life death and resurrection of Christ spirits of salvation rolling prized by the way this is probably the last one of the fundamental beliefs it comes in into the into the set of the twenty eight fundamental beliefs in send Louis in two thousand and five or zero in Christ. Are the charges to two of ruminant a nice mission unity in the body of Christ. Fourteen and the fifteen baptism in the Last Supper is the sixteen on Peter a gift on ministries and eighteen is the gift of prophecy and the law of God Sabbath is that twenty and the twenty first is to worship twenty second. Christian behavior morning on marriage and family twenty third twenty four is Christ ministering him only sanctuary and the second coming of Christ the under Sarette action million human and in seen a new earth is it twenty eight this is our beliefs and you'll go to the website of the cylinder that is charging the Internet you're going to find that that point is important maybe to review those things and to see that but we need to remember something. This fundamental beliefs that we call today fundamental beliefs were known and accepted by all the pioneers of the seventy seventy chart. Interesting question. Because when we go to the Pioneers what we are going to see is that. In the time of the pioneers the Paris. Is this Paris has been a nice as generic name to them to find a group of former seven they have then teased that began to give the first elemental the steps in what we know today Seventh Day Adventists by the way the power on earth they even know that they were pioneers. They dealing called then so of pioneers. Just they were starting a new movement and sometimes they call movement even though they didn't use the word church at the beginning I remember something. At the beginning there was a fight Big be written in the name. You remember that. So when you go to the history books of the same. They're going to charge what you are going to perceive is that thing and we need to to a more than say into this the pilots have a mole time then nomination a background behind what does it mean that they were coming in like every one of us. From different backgrounds. My wife for example she's she's with. What I would say. Switzerland Argentinian Italian background saw she's. Surf for Fortune aeration of sun there Ventus. And probably five began to ask questions here you're going to be going to say Well my background look my background's Catholic my background. You know other adversity of our. My background my myself is Catholic I used to be ultra boy when I was a kid. So the pioneers were coming pron a different. Sort of backgrounds and you are going to see that here Christian connection made to these Lutheran priestly Tarion and so on majority of them where Christian connection Christian connection and Christian connection was an independent movement and one of of the characteristic of Christian connection is that they do not believe in the Trinity here here this reference about the Christian connection so. Yes. Christian connection and. Connection. With eeks was a Christian movement in USA that developing similar place during one thousand nine hundred centuries by the way east disappear not any longer Britain connection I cannot tell to you go to Boston Massachusetts you're going to find out Christian connection base and from then on there is no they they disappear in history it was made up of suspicions from seven different religious the nomination it was influence by settling in different year as well as the formation of the new United State separation from Great Britain in the Christian connection claimed to have no creed in Steve professing to align his strictly on the Bible. So that you have here the picture of the Christian connection and one when you think here Christian connection with input names but there are a whole lot of power uniters connected with that where they asked me to change why you know it's some of them. A copy them Beatz another of those so so when when we are given those names probably you are going to see those names very were represented in the ruler here and articles and thinking so that kind of thing is quite interesting and I'm not going to bring some complexities here but remember something and if he was not Christian connection back from. US Middle East are so remember also that there was another thing in the power units that they did we today we do have. Fundamental beliefs OK they didn't they didn't do worse and. Not at the beginning a fundamental believes in the seven the inventive charge and you are going to some times when you visit places you discover sings when you go to Battle Creek by the way how many of you are Michiganders how many of you saw there are some decent terms here so. Take advantage of the time here if you can do it and go to a visit but the creek. And. For me. Is quite important experience from time to time to go to Battle Creek because there is a lot of pioneers in that place at some point some point there were he not returned walking in bottle creek and preaching in the churches. And teaching and writing and they were in the room your head out and they were going in General Conference and they were of traveling abroad and they were preaching their wealth to you know their places and they were eventually sent and they were all thoughts of writers you are going to find out the place of the grave of your rawest Meath chains why delis you quite and the kind of. And by the way you are going to find out that in the column of the center where nobody speak in any longer or shouting or preaching any longer there is a lot of people that sometimes we were with difference each other. And big difference I'm fighting for doctrines and teachings in the chart. And you are going to find also some kind of real cities in history for example the wife OK Oh. She was a seven day Baptist and you say. How in the world is that how is possible well it's part of the thing because in the moment in which she accepts this saga she was going to. Worship with a husband and there was not a problem for them so that is part of what I will say the creel city of the pioneers so you need to remember when we are speaking of the pioneers of the charter the parents were in a process of time in which every scene was evolving in. Every single US in turns from mation Every scene was in translation there were us and not everything settled yet. And we are certain since we are in that condition now are they normally a treaty appearing in the confession of faith and in the Articles of Faith of sun churches and systematic study since the Bible were not yet Defendo. That is maybe other details that is important by the way today when you are going to work with the Bible. You are going to see that technology is coming up in our in our research and when you open the Bible and you search one word for example you are going to find out that ward in across the whole Bible OK but there are programs in which you are opening that Ward and he's giving you the auditioner. And the time and the tins in the arena and the format Indonesian and the meaning Indonesian and you're going to compare they didn't have that chance. They they couldn't they couldn't wars. In that condition the pirates OK and sometimes they were fighting and he's very clear in some article that they were fighting articles of faith that sometimes were so confuse I let me share with you something important. The topic of God is not an easy topic. And I'm not going to to answer maybe all the questions that you my half. But let me share with you that I am more inclined to the Hebrew kind of thinking that to the Greek kind of thinking because the Greek tend to be more speculative What is the nature of God. What is the essence of God do defile other the son and the Holy Spirit shirt one person essence and that kind of thing that is part of the vision of the Greek philosophy and thinking that is not the Hebrew. The he really were more relaxed relational and they believe in the existence of the Lord in the relationship with God but there are you are not going to find out all dim the complexities that the Greeks come on when you are going to see that you are going to perceive that this happen in in the beginning of the big discussions about the essence and the person and the person who is of these and the other on the other. The Bible basically say something and that is the basic in that book that you. Half of my stuff the low SES. And the low safe for example lead us make men according to our we're. OK And you say wow. I never thought about that then puta. And you go to the beginning and say and the low SES is singular but when God they speak is pleura and after dark detects resumes and a good backs to the Single are again. And God made the you are going to see that kind of bouncing between the single layer on the pleura in the Bible. And my condition my reflection is this less accept the Bible as the Bible say. Do not enter into into this speculation accept the Bible as it is written. Probably what some of the problems that we're having today is big is about to speculation do you think that you are going to see in the Paris is charged versus movement. Even sorry for event even the concept of church was not well accepted early. Let me correct this because I prefer to do this. OK Even the concept I mean the concept of of charge was not well accepted early they were kind of movement and there is a Russian and for the The Book of their Orient with from movement of this remember you that book or book of of course saw the name chart. Westview. To Chanelle. There was a spirit of. Of everything that was institution. And we need to remember this for me this is a very critical topic that is the pioneers do not have. Or known the twenty eight fundamental beliefs of this and they have the interest charge I don't know if they were are are not there or going to to go forward because sometimes there are people to say what will happen if we put all the fundamental beliefs with the pioneers or the parents in a relationship with a fundamental beliefs and some people say slight like some authors famous not going to quote them some of them probably they were NOT be seven they have no interest. Of course there are something that is very clear regarding that are in discarding was part of the process they were praying fast in studying the Bible and they were more be bleaker than Philo Sheikha. I don't know if you understand what I'm saying. They are not. They are not going behind the great hill lotions they are they were going to the Bible. And they influence was the Biblical writings North theological pursue positions of men so this doctrinal evolving and changing produce sometimes conflict and discussion but there was one spirit among the pioneers that we need to have some times in the chart brain fasting and studying the Bible. Let me let me share with you that I am sometimes. I am. I am I am in pain sometimes in the charge for for the situation. Sometimes we need to intervene from the unease Tricia and I mean several times in in moments in which there are people fighting you know trying to convince one to change the law of of the others and this is beginning to prove use some kind of conflict in the chart and I've been charging and I've Scuse me I mean I've been seeing charges that I did this it maybe ten fifteen years ago in which there were a beautiful beautiful building beautiful community of people that in thing years disappear completely. Because of fighting a new fight in for this sometimes topic and I am paying for that believe me I question myself what what we need to do better for for a boy even that kind of of thing because that is that is not in this period of the pioneers by the way. If we need to recover something is that kind of spirit in which they were to integrate each other in the BE picture of the son they have then to chart. Of course the bigger thing in the in the vision last days that is in Yell of the Second Coming and the summer. Second Coming and the server. Second Coming and the Sabbath was so all over arching everything. That was over those all those things. Rick. Member if if we pull together all our backgrounds Catholics Presbyterian Jellicoe Baptist and Lutheran and. Whatever you know into the charge how many articles of faith we are going to have if we are going to bring all together and not a lot so if it is impossible for four for the power uniters to pull all the sings at the beginning so they didn't they were behind they were telling the prophecies and they discover through the prophecies that the coming of the Lord was soon. Learn in the process they discover them through things regarding the Sabbath and DOS teachings were the most important teachings for them to the point that deal today with YOU have their name in our what I wouldn't say official because it's not the official but it's the most important and influential paper in the seven they have N.T. charts at least I've been to review. Remember that it was review and here and of the sub account of the Sabbath. So that was of of the of the S. and for that for this reason the Miocene has been called and is review and some of here. So for the Pioneers there were center into that topic. So all the all the things were not in the essence of those things aren't we need to remember also all the things. And we are going to review that in a moment so they were in that concentration with no specific. The high level of concentration in those teachings may the not to put attention to other doctrines and teachings like Trinity the person of Jesus. The also distract off the end of this. You're going to see in the pioneers that that was a problem. Regarding that topic and the food and so on these are the sayings in which the power your nurse were you know later discussing about that. Remember something that is regarding this topic of. The importance of the. Of. Of one of the pioneers or what I would say because he never made the session for seven there and then to this you know. I am talking about William Miller William Miller. Until the end. He became a Baptist and he never took a decision regarding that but but he was they in spirit for the pioneers of the charge he converted his stuff he was at the state. A millionaire converted didn't the time in which US in the Army. By playing against the British in old you know the section of the North. On some things happen. One for him was a real miracle for him and he began to think is. Change regarding that he was thrown from a car reach a fever a shelf within a few feet from him all those were killed he was untouched. And he began to think they were they were you know number statistics they were about fifteen hundred regular troops plus four thousand volunteers to fight fifteen thousand first class troops coming back from you're a drone you know fighting against Napoli and and they won a victory or pulled those troops. And there were some sane. That was West and possible to explain rationale with the mathematics apply to the armistice. And in the body of one fellow soldiers he began to reflect and listen a reflection when he said that they soon have something to offer than they did not half you know. Basically finally he was called to do to preach the difference between they and. They East in the event that from the Latin word there was God. Philosophical position that combines a restriction of Revelation and authority as a source of religious knowledge and that is part probably that is in the mind of several of the founders of this country. They say. Remember remember that aren't there was a controversy regarding to Eastern. It is the belief in God as a creator of the universe that intervenes and sustain a personal relationship with his creators that is the difference. Regarding to the other. Meter. He believes in the Bible and he believes in the really the Bible is the relation front up and he believed that Jesus was a person of savior and friend and. And an on Saturday morning eight hundred thirty three. He Miller promised to the Lord that if you received an invitation to speak he will go and he was with a preconception that he will never receive that kind of imitation. One hour were later. One hour where later of that decision somebody comes and knock the door. And invite him to preach. So those sinks when you are you know when you are pulling all the information you are going to say how in the wall is post some of you visit those places in the state of Vermont up New York those those areas let me share with you that we visit the places of the of the miller and this in is not in Boston is eases fun away the downtown there is a reason the country. When you see that. He began to think Sun saying something was behind everything regarding his life and in eighteen forty. There was a fourth of the meter right other entities through the cylinder then to Baptist to promote the Sabbath among all the Christian denominations. And eighteen zero to remember the seven there then to General Conference was organized in eight hundred forty one they were five thousand five hundred members in fifty charges with about sixty two ministers seventy seventy is. A Baptist I mean by the way today there are a few of them in several places very close to three being very close to three even if there is a congregation in a couple of the coming of cream in one of those who are son of a pastor of seven the. Baptist seven they Baptist So certainly a dentist is accused with sin they Baptists still are alive and in place in in some places snow are growing congregation but they were related with those movements at the beginning so there was a double influence of Sabbaths and the Baptist trucked on the salad records and all. And I'm going to enter here. Into into the into this. But I am trying Indies in this point just to let you know that in the power your New Year's Day doctrines and teachings were in our if old beam process. That was not fixed yet. Professor Bart and use University say were not in front so that sections that considerable numbers of those who are looking for the speedy appearance of cries have embraced the seven day and come. Mensa dove seven it us this hour now the believers in this be the second coming. Of the nt stand in a position where they do not free but by any cream and having sufficient so of the Nile to lead them to practice according to their conviction of duty Archons to person to understand the requirements of the world in these modern board. In the stopping of the forty seven. We are. Seen around mid to the seventy's minister. Was the first summit keeping minister and let me share with you that. The way in which he learned about Sabbath was not an easy way because what it was in a communion service. He lead a service and invited. All the persons communion with Christ in such a service should be ready to follow Him and obey God and keep His commandments in all the things. Rochon Oaks was one of those members attending. And she was thinker and she say if you say and believe it you must do it. Is difficult to say that to a pastor you know in a release of service and. And lately explain and say I wanted to tell you that you will bear sad that communion table back and put a close over it until you begin to keep the commandments of God and the point what was the point. Sux. Yes. Doug was the point. And in that way he received the buy wistaria about the South are today we are more polite in doing you know the bible studies and we are not going to do the persuasion through these through these ways but. We are you know. In a more. Way in explaining and looking for the acceptance of the people that you know I I do have to commend the a spirit of these pastor because he accepted the topic and he followed. She said based upon the Bible because he discover that that lady was not speaking in a fight in spirit but she was based upon the Bible and she was telling place do what the Bible say's. Sometimes you know we're church we need to have more time of compassion in our words when we disagree sometimes. Loving Kindness is good to have in our presentation because sometimes there are too much. I don't know and. Not good the spirit. That is. Yeah. That's true that is true so those thing is just a Bates. Just a. This is an example of of Bates. He wrote and he preached and he taught that we need to keep some of us when he discovered by the way and maybe see the place in which that breach and when he discovered the South he began to observe stock that he began to. Finally. And put a beginning date and a finish date and that was from six P.M. to six P.M.. The beginning and the end so that was the vision so at the beginning you are going to find out the pioneers of the charge they were following a kind of fixed time in doing some things. Finally changed why. He wrote in this article some have the impression that six o'clock time has been taught among us by the direct manifestation of the Holy Spirit this is a mistake from even to even so he's quoting bible here Leviticus was the teaching from which six o'clock time has been in fair he says that and that he's a good correction and the charge began to follow that kind of direction by the way this is this is sometimes a living stop here for for a moment. This is a good practice of the receive in the silence. And dismiss in this hour how many of you follow this in your in your home. OK. Because let me share with you today this discipline is not. Kept any longer and for me that he said that he supports. Space and just bases. And. Start. If. You will. Yeah. Yeah well in him in the sea by the way in the sea it's not an easy thing to establish the time for a force for sunset and they've managed based on. The space. Station. Yes. Well in my understanding the people normally are are following descriptors from sunset to sunset and and there are indications and there is in the tell more Ingle please correct me if I am going wrong here of the seven I think that you are going to send me after that but they were one hour where I understand before before sunset they play they so far to call the people that were working to to leave the ward and an hour later just to tell them they made this sound of they so far to make everybody knows that Sabbath was beginning saw they were they were following some set. And there is that. There is a practice in general I know you've been in Jerusalem. In the in the of course in the conservative side of general Solenn. Well we are not permitted sometimes to enter in those places without risking our lives but there they are they are following very strictly that. And. Any comment about that. Was. It is it is quite interesting we do have by the way certain. Colonies in other places of Seventh Day Adventists people and one is in Argentina. And in the place of our university and there is a lot of commerce in the place and everything is close it's closed doors probably one hour before sunset and. No no dealings and no commercial open dude in the summer time and. That is but you know there are places in which we are beginning to receive. The blessing of the Walt put some rockets in lesson. In them. Recently they there is a McDonald's in the Melinda and. They were open you know on Sabbath and so on until about four or five years ago in I'm Alina the even the male did not distribute male pasta she didn't decide what time. But four years ago the they began to continue about that but that is part of our our problem in being in the in the wall with the know being off the war. But we need to keep. The boundaries whole even church organization was in evolution. And it is some of the the topic of systematic men Evelyn's. Change in those days in the times of the pioneers for example the plan to is predict the third ancients Missa in Battle Creek Michigan. And you are going to find out this in eight hundred fifty nine. Recommendations suggestion for systematic benevolence. The publish address including Russia say men from eighteen to sixteen word to set aside each first date for on of five to twenty five cents woman for on the same Grange of face where to put aside from ten cents. Maybe for a one cent scuse me to ten cents and finally those who all know a property where to set aside each week from one to five cents each on each hundred or prop of property they all. This is telling you that there was not our program. Be. They for their systematic benevolence regarding that So let's let's go. To the topic of the Trinity. Well Jane is why I called the Trinity in the dream Tarion absurdity. And in explicable Trinity and John endurance. The Son of God had a point to begin in the past times and Cornell said this is the fruit of a Great Apostasy one common element and is regarding. That people think that this was coming from on our catalytic or reaching let me share with you in the book in the book that ensure you have one book. In the book in the book. By the way that some people from time to time are accusing us of photo when. The catalytic believe regarding the Regarding the Trinity. And. An eye for God today to bring the Catechism but I am going to bring the explanation to you regarding this topic. And I mean let me find out this it is impatience one o two in the English version one and two on one of the three. Is the other piece understanding of the Trinity the same as that held by the Roman Catholics. And I'm saying noice not. There is a measure difference between Roman Catholics answer and their Then tissues regarding the Trinity. Catholicism looks to the authority of the man she's still human. OK Now she's Tyrian means pope Carling and bishops and all the others officers on the chart that he still even teach in office of the chart. And the catechism percent. A long and complex definition that estate I am patient one of three that the sun is be gotten not made by the way this is one of the Four Seasons very close to one of the pioneers of the center then to charge by the way and they say I goes on to say that and this is quote Since the father has through Sion aeration given the Only Begotten Son everything that belongs to the Father except being the Father the Son has also eternally from the father from whom he said Turner Lee born that the Holy Spirit proceeds from this so on. And you are going to find out the quotation again. And the quotation it is catechism of Catholic charge of leave it here the to reach about the Cana nine hundred ninety seven page eighty seven insert I put here the Catholic Church teaches I am not comparing here and not comparing But let me share with you that for my understanding that you. It is close I will say to this you hold my witnesses horses. In certain services. Because it's consumer the Catholic Church teaches that the Holy Spirit proceeds from this on under some from the father. This concept. Does not come from the Bible and it's not a teaching of this and. That's my and then sometimes I'm going to share probably I don't know maybe to morrow on or the other day I'm going to share with you in which point I am regarding the Trinity and regarding the Godhead and because I am continue studying about the topic. With the with the question coming you are going to prepare yourself for for the questionings and and every time that I'm going deep in the Bible I'm going to do search and find some things that he's good to share with for I were they sick position. First sync with my wife and I say I am an erratic if I'm going to do this and she at the beginning was shocked with that and she said I never heard that I say I know but what do you think and let me explain to you this and I began to explain and finally with McCain if I have again you know united in our conception that sometimes that is part of our problem regarding this topic and I'm going to share with you are probably about to morrow about this regarding the topic that got hit doctrine in the Seventh Day Adventist Church as we move in according to the origin of background of the pioneers even from the time of William meter and by the way. William Miller and here is the information with you remember he was converted from D.C. to Baptist. But these were three Taria and he said this is William Miller but they should i believe in one live in and through God and that there are three person in the Godhead the three person of the tree you and to try to you in God are connected. However this is the city regarding what you say a moment ago this is this is the point Himes. He was a close associate to William Miller and he the backroad of him was a Christian connection so what the was his believe regarding the topic he did not believe in the Trinity I think was a seal associated with with I mean. That is quite interesting for me because. That is the point in which the pioneers were at the beginning because when when some people say let's go to the faith of the pattern or the pioneers were not in this you know condition in which we are today. Yes. Yes yes. I'm going to enter into that. No tomorrow in the morning. There are several point why they reject but this is one of them and I'm going to. Two to search at that point I'm going to answer this in the presentation. Tomorrow in the morning in the presentation so. The pioneers the Depayin heirs regarding this topic were not like we are in this situation because they didn't have a fundamental belief or articles of faith by the way when you read when you read some articles of faith of the churches maybe one hundred years ago two hundred years ago there were very complex to accept by the way. Because even the Bible with the difficulties that sometimes may have are easier to read done doze complex articles of faith. Humility may think you know. Justice Bates another of the pioneers and followers of of Miller respecting the Trinity I conclude that it was impossible this is censoring your question in certain sense for me to believe that the low she's a son of the father was also the MIT guy. You are going to see that. James White for example. In next become treaty that makes the gods at three in one and one in three is bad enough but that but they all three Tarion Zz only Tyrion that makes Christ inferior to the father is Warse. So this is an interesting reflection coming from unchanged. And this is telling you that Western Not everything fixed yet. There were reflecting they were in a process of transition and they were. Are open to accept the movement of that to morrow we are going to enter into what makes the transition into that we are going to answer that questions to more in the morning OK See you tomorrow that God bless you. This media was brought to you by audio verse a website dedicated to spreading God's word through free sermon audio and much more if you would like to know more about audio verse if you would like to listen to more sermons Please Visit W W W audio verse or.

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