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24. Keys to Success

Jim Howard

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  • June 13, 2016
    7:00 PM
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Father in heaven thank you for this day and the blessings that are all around us thank you for the Spirit of God who has led us to this point has convicted us of our sin has washed us and has renewed us our hearts and our minds that we might be called the Children of God thank You that we can be missionaries for you and we pray that you would give us courage and faith that as we leave this place we might go forward with renewed motivation and renewed understanding of how we can reach souls for you bless us and go with us and encourage us along the way we ask Jesus OK so. We finish kind of quickly. But I do want to hand some. Just so you have it and I'll just tell you what it is but I'm not going to have much time to really go over it the see. It helpers couple helpers. Do. Just give everybody one if you came to any of the locker violation coordinator training this you might have gotten this but that's OK. I just pulled it from there. I wanted you to at least have something that would give you an idea of what's involved in preparing someone for baptism. And. I told you that for the Bible study offer dot com Bible school that we're developing a. Baptismal preparation guide and that baptismal preparation guide will be kind of a. A new and improved version of this OK so but I just wanted to give you an idea while I had you here of what's involved this. Happens to be what we used for baptismal classes with a lock revelation and you'll notice on the first page there it has ten different points broken down in different classes that you could have and then on the back of that is several more points getting to a total of nineteen different points those are taken straight off of a baptismal preparation card that amazing facts evangelists use I discovered it when I came into a district where they had just had an amazing fax of Angelus and they were using this little card I really liked it so I called out to Maison fax and they sent me more and this is just not in the cards forms is printed out it's sort of a summary of the commitments involved in baptism without necessarily having to go through the huge. You know the twenty eight are intended to leave no room for misunderstanding but they also can be a little bit heady. And you know a little technical and so this is sort of a simplified version but still gets the main points that you're trying to get the candidate to understand so it's still got everything there but it's in a little bit different format bottom line is. This is what we use for a lock revelation with these one thousand points if you did and baptismal. And use the baptismal class cards and then within Here are some instructions on how to do about his new class and we just have that all laid out. For a few pages and then. You come to a point where there's a little chart on the bottom of page seventy three again I the reason these are page the way they are as I just took it straight from our training him book for coordinated training but you'll see as a supplementary resources to help gain decisions you guys with me OK good. You need to understand the mystifying fun the point where really says this. Yeah. Flip to the other side of that on pay a number four on page seventy two. Where it says the baptismal classes are not intended to be a comprehensive explanation of every topic because when you about dismal class as a general it isn't a comprehensive type of thing. Going on it says most of the topics are already covered during evangelistic meetings in the baptismal class simply reviews these and fills in the blanks or certain other beliefs the baptismal preparation actually occurs in for complimentary ways evangelist meetings baptismal classes one on one baptism preparation meetings and carefully chosen books and other resources so let's say you're not having an evangelist meeting your disc giving somebody a Bible study Well the point here is the principle is the same and that is that you prepare people for baptism in more than one way and one of the primary ways that I would encourage you to be leading people toward decisions is by giving them supplementary resources on the very issues that they need to make decisions on for baptism so that's why this chart is on the bottom page seventy three of just give you an idea what I'm doing about seasonal class and I'm getting ready to cover the Bible and the Godhead I will give them a little pocket book for amazing facts on the Trinity urge him to read it and then before before I start talking about the Sabbath or what have you I'll give him a little Sabbath booklet pocket book and then when I start getting the lifestyle things before the you know if we're having a meeting and we're talking about a topic and I know that the next time we meet we're going to talk about unclean meats I'll give them a pocketbook like Og's and other hazards you know crews and I'll have them review it before we meet OK they should have Gardy probably if they're to that point gotten some exposure already but it's just what I'm trying to. Say is the more. People hear and are presented with something the more the conviction grows this same thing happens if you ever had somebody who was convicted on the Sabbath and then they didn't come you know you didn't see him for a while and so then you went to visit with them and they were you know kind of dismissing everything the first thing that I do is I just start to casually really give the Bible study on the Sabbath to them. I don't open up a study guide and what have you I just kind of say well. You know I can understand why you could have question but maybe it would help to just kind of remind you where we are coming from from the Bible on that and so we can have some talking points and then I'll begin to talk about you know remember that the Sabbath was not for the Jews it was given in Genesis long before there was a Jew And God set the Sabbath apart and made it holy and then in Exodus Chapter twenty we find that God gives the Ten Commandments and in the Ten Commandments it clearly doesn't say US seventh day but it says Remember thus seventh day meaning that it's a specific day and it says Remember to keep it holy and you can't keep a day holy unless you have it has already been made holy and then I kind of talk about it so that's why that Genesis was important if you remember we talked about that then you go to the New Testament and Jesus as his custom was in Luke for sixteen keeps the Sabbath and then you keep going in the apostles you find it all through the book of Acts been accepting it actually says it was Paul's custom to keep the Sabbath and then you go to Matthew twenty four and you find that Jesus says that even at the end of time when there's going to be great tribulation pray that your flight not take place in the winter or on the Sabbath so Jesus actually expected that his followers would be keeping the Sabbath at the end of time else he wouldn't have mentioned it to them. And then you look at Jesus' followers after his death and it says that the female disciples there in Luke twenty three verse fifty six they refused to continue their labor of love making those spices and they rested according to the commandment of the Sabbath and then all the way to Isaiah sixty six we find even in the New Earth from one Sabbath to another all flesh shall come together to worship before him now if I do that in about how long it takes me. Three minutes what it what am I doing what's happening what am I trying to do. What's the word I'm looking for. OK you're reviewing OK reinforced Yes Who said that that's what was the word. Were by what. Conviction OK No one makes a decision without conviction where does conviction come from. The Holy Spirit what is the Holy Spirit used for conviction the word every time OK so if you want to revive conviction what do you have to bring back the word you bring back the word you show the clarity of the word again the Spirit of God use it because the word is this sort of the spirit and he starts cutting right away and all of a sudden all those convictions start growing again you know and they were honestly when you sat down with them able to dismiss it and say I really don't think it's much of a big deal they forgot I mean quite literally they kind of put it all on the back shelf they kind of rationalized until they felt they could and then when you bring it all back to them you're reviving conviction and so you know the whole concept of soul winning really is allowing the Holy Spirit to work. In the Holy Spirit works through the word so you need to be people of the word and when you're wanting to revive conviction you. Bring that bring that on back so ultimately whether it's preparing them with pocket books that are full of the word or whatever you're trying to give them as many things that bring conviction as possible because that is what leads to decision in every case yes yeah. Yeah I mean the best thing to do. With something like that if they sometimes people let me say this. I hated to read I'm still not like a natural reader type of person like I was Cliff Notes in high school I didn't read anything I was so proud of myself in fifth grade I read Mrs Frisby in the rats in them and it was like the first full book I ever read and. But every other thing that I did was basically watched T.V. and movies I mean it was boring to read a book it didn't fly off the page it would took forever you know it just I had no interest whatsoever in reading. When at the age of twenty two just because there was no other way for me to meet my curiosity I just decided to browse a little bit in the Bible and the Bible gripped me with eternal reality suddenly all of a sudden I started reading like. You know I mean I was and it was because I was interested. You're saying I mean any way you talk to people who don't like to read they will read what they are interested in OK so I just bring that up to say it could be that this is just not a real kindled interest quite yet that reading will come around when they're that doesn't mean you don't have to you know people who are not natural readers have to fight to read as they get older and we have humans is something that's an intentional thing you have to do but but interest is what stokes that but what I would say is use the video. Oh the D.V.D.'s the grass the D.V.D. you know Vangelis experience D.V.D.'s or something that is very helpful is the anchor point film D.V.D.'s if you've seen those there's like they're like documentaries but they're very well done on Daniel to Daniel nine the Sabbath the state of the day. Anti-Christ they have like seven different topics and they're the power packed topics so if you look up anchor point films D.V.D.'s and Google that you can get at the A.B.C. as well unfortunately as Chad and forty acres are but they're like fifteen bucks of this out of four that's just what it is but they're very good and they did put a lot of money into developing them so I just checked one out and see what they want to Daniel nine is awesome and I really like is it really talks about the Messiah the prophecies the Messiah is very good for someone who's really knew or what have you anyway I just want to show you how that works that you give them resources to help people with decisions I was do that and then what you have here is a baptism a class outline and it just kind of shows you for each of those one thousand points the types of things you want to try to cover OK And you can just look at that at your leisure but let me just ask you to tell me. What are the different commitments where the oh here you can I get rid of my email address here you all wrote that down. What are the different practical. Commitments that someone should make before baptism Now why is let me let me say something about keeping the Sabbath when you go through a Bible study you do a Bible study on the Sabbath Don't you so that means you have that covered right no. Because when you do a Bible study on the Sabbath. It does not cover how to keep the Sabbath there might be a little mention here or there but as a general rule what I do is in evangelist meeting or what have you first you're convincing them of the fact of the Sabbath is still valid it's part of the law of God and it's the seventh day. Then when it comes time they want to be baptized and you come time to prayer the baptism or you're in no further development of the studying you're going to talk about how to keep the Sabbath and you're going to talk about various things one of the things we're going to talk about this but that down. Was that. OK That's right. So Sunday. Preparation Day and the importance of preparation and. You know we're. We would say also no no. I'm just going to there's probably a better word for it but contract work. Right right. Buying. Selling. No eating out. No. Michigan Michigan State I know. Little E.. Games when they're. No this is no yeah that's clear now. Let me Yes Karan. OK And. So then you. So there you go. This is very important thank you for bringing it up many people struggle with the idea that they can just keep the Sabbath at home and go to church on Sunday or what have you so they may be clear on this in fact every Vangelis experience I do I always bring it out myself I plant a question in a queue in a box. To answer this question and I simply say you know Leviticus twenty three three says the Sabbath the day of holy convocation is a sacred assembly Jesus not only kept the Sabbath as this custom was but went to church on the Sabbath which the synagogue and also. And also the. Sixty six which says that in the new earth all flesh shall come to. Worship before me so the Sabbath to keep the Sabbath requires not just. Something you do at home alone or resting but it also involves a gathering with like minded believers so gathered together for worship. Outreach and other doing good which means that you also have to talk to them about why building your neighbors deck is not necessarily what's meant by doing good right you have so you have to lay out the principles Well when Jesus said do good he was talking about urgent you know helping an ox and a dish so there was suffering involved and what have you so you have to look at the context and you know you're helping to explain what you know about keeping the Sabbath and then basically what I will do is I'll show them Exodus twenty and from Exodus twenty you can clearly talk about no word what different times of work I go to Nehemiah thirteen you talk about no buying and selling knowing our. Etc I go to Isaiah fifty eight to talk about the principles of spiritual versus you know my own personal hobbies or interests or what have you it doesn't say not to delight yourself not to take pleasure just as you're supposed to Delight yourself in the Lord so the Sabbath is a day where you're focusing on your relationship with the Lord so the yeses have to do with worship outreach and your personal relationship with God your relationship with the church and family. What's that. Right right yes yes to Raz. Yes to nature. We talk about that when we are in Exodus twenty so. The point yeah family thank you so the point is. That. The only way that they're going to know that is if you kind of Scripturally explain that to them and you're not going to get it from the bible study that you had in the set or say I'm saying that happens and when you're preparing for baptism. Probably wasn't the Jand which. Was it on the Sabbath. I was talking about worship Leviticus twenty three three and sixty six and look for sixteen. I don't recall using if each ns. OK this was Exodus twenty six this was Nehemiah thirteen I'm sorry that I have the verses memorized and there. This is as if the thirty forty OK So keeping the Sabbath that's good what other practical commitments are involved in preparation for baptism OK but that's not practical I'm looking for lifestyle practical OK so we could say I will say health. And I put those when I'm talking I put them into categories one is unclean meat. They it's time to say no to unclean meat right that's the big commitment that they make. Yeah thank you thirteen fifteen to twenty two on the buying and selling OK unclean meat and then. What I what I say here is mind altering. And addictive. Drugs. Oh no. That are non. Prescription. So what does that include. Alcohol's mind altering addictive right back Owen in whatever form caffeinated beverages mind altering addictive. Yeah. And there may be some here because of how. How. Little some places instruct on this that aren't even aware of that but some of the evidence have always held that caffeinated beverages and elements day it was tea and coffee primarily but today we have all kinds of caffeinated beverages that are very spiked and caffeine are very. Are are very addictive and though they are not you know I would never say that it's as potent as alcohol or what have you but it is mind altering and it is addictive and Christians should just not dally with things that can they can be mastered by it is no reason to so we would encourage at that time I usually give my testimony when I quit drinking coffee and what have you and we encourage. The drinking of drinks that might be alternatives like Roma are what have you or caffeine free types of things if you're going to drink pop here their drinks bright drink whatever and in the in the actual vows it states that we would not take other narcotics and other drugs and Ellen White's writing she actually speaks of caffeinated beverages like tea and coffee as narcotics. So you know some people say oh it's not in there but in reality it is and if you read the statements by Ellen might they're pretty pointed. To the point of saying it was clearly a sinful indulgence and she says these are things that should be discarded and they're not to be put on the same category and she's talking about. Coffee unclean meats you know tobacco alcohol she says these are not to be put on the same these are to be born in front and things like meat cheese etc are not to be put on the same level she says these things that are to be taken moderately are not the same as the poisonous narcotics which are to be totally discarded and and I don't know if I have that in there I've got some quotes in here I'm not sure if I have that in there but it. OK We're going to you need to go to the Spirit of Prophecy class that Pastor Howard had but. OK that's true let me I'll go ahead and try to answer quick but then our problem go into a lot of detail on a pastor Howard wants to clarify you can but I read those statements and my first reaction as a some of the evidence I really did put it on the same level when I read it because it how strongly it sounded then I came across where Ellen White talked about how she did here or there. Take cheese a couple of times and I thought to myself well why would she do that. When it sounded her her language sounded like it was on the same level as the totally discard like alcohol what have you but she said that occasionally when it was passed to her out of courtesy or whatever but are there times a couple times that she would take it that's interesting then you read the stories about her interactions and I was one case where somebody was trying to tag James white out trying to get him to things going to interesting but anyway read about the creation sometime but anyway it talks about this story and says yeah you passed it to my husband James or whatever and then you know he took it as we occasionally will do or whatever because what was happening was they were eating they had taken some and then people say oh a white eats cheese or whatever they start doing as he was trying to say that's not exactly the reality we did take some Then she said something about James not taking it if I remember right and then it mentions that they put it back in the cupboard and i've ever read that thing that's interesting because I don't but I wouldn't put cheese in the cupboard. I mean I just think that wouldn't work out. And it it dawned on me in that that there is a difference between. The. Preservation of and the. I don't know how you would word it but how they would you know the whole process by which they developed the cheese was different now is cheese a health food absolutely not is there a better way there absolutely is I do think a big died as a better diet and I do believe that God has provided ways for us to cook and prepare food so that we do not have to eat in any dairy really but ultimately it's not on the same level and she never put it on the same level and there's statements where I could show you where she clearly puts them in different tiers and she's in a different tier it's not in that same tier so I would just say taking the whole wealth of of insight that we have from her that it's something that we would not consider a health food is something that we should be trying to limit in our diet but it's also not on the same level as a sin if I could put it so bluntly you are saying what I mean Sin is not a sin but it is something that we should be as we get closer to the end looking to limit in our diet if we're going to be healthy so your hand up and she even says moderately. Which means that moderate use would not be considered sin. You know what I'm saying. And another point that is often brought out is when her strong statement in ministry of healing where she says. That it's unfair she's unfit for food it's not enter into the stomach upset or when they translated that into the German edition they it was such a staple certain types of cheeses in their diet that they asked Ellen White if they could. Translate it as they felt that the intent was which is strong sharp cheeses that the language strong sharp cheeses and she permitted and they and actually translated strong sharp cheeses should not so there was a difference even in the different types of cheeses that she made so anyway this is a good you know this is something for the Spirit of Prophecy but this is a good lesson for anyone who you know you obviously want to be wise in and you want to be obedient and you want to be responsive but you also want to take all that the counsel says and make sure that you're. Understanding it and in my personal case it took me a while before I even came across any of that I actually had to notice some people that are respected who are OK with a little bit. Less brothers are not as faithful of that. And and then I started exploring a little bit and if you ever have a question elder William Fadal at the White estate I mean boy Esther I wear it out his e-mail and email him and say what does Elam wife you know I'm hearing this and this is what I'm doing but I see this and you know is there some other statement or other things that I should be considering and he's heard just about every question the book. And he'll fire back different statements by Ellen White that will help add a little bit of insight it's the same thing with the Bible you know you could read. Yeah my questions on Ellen White and those are all responses that he gave to people who ask questions there's one on chocolate one on cheese one on you know whatever. But. He said that it was but I'd say some really important. Know that's what he said. Yeah it's on L. might. Anyway. Yeah I lost it so I'll go here. Yes thank you Ingrid That's right that's good and what just to give you an idea of what I'm saying here. Ultimately I get Jones a second. When I present health in preparation for baptism what I actually say is you know we believe that the body and the health of the body that Jesus cared about if you look at his ministry was a ministry of healing and he cared about the health of the body and as Christians we believe the Bible teaches that the body and the spiritual health physical and spiritual health go hand in hand and so we are strong supporters and educators on healthful principles on prevention of disease on all those things and we go over the eight you know doctors right new start nutrition and exercise and water and sunlight and temperance and air fresh air and rest and trust in God and then I say so we recognize that those things are progressive that somebody is making a decision to follow Christ and you know you you drink one glass of water. A day you know it's not like everybody has to me to drink eight glasses of water a day but we educate that you should you know begin to do those things however there are some things some areas that are. Contrary to the scriptural guidance given and. Those areas are ones that we should make a commitment to discard when we're making a decision to follow Christ and that would be that the meats that are clearly outlined as unclean and abominable in Scripture as well as anything addictive or mind altering that ultimately would be to defile the body temple that the Scripture says we should not defile and so those would be things like alcohol tobacco caffeinated beverages etcetera things that really are just addictive in nature and so we do say progressive but we don't say progressive with these two areas that's the point in other words these are the areas of commitment that's the whole point these are the minimum you understand I'm saying it's not like you're presenting it that way but you need to know what those decisions are that you're seeking to lead them to make as a starting point in their Christian experience and that's you know when they're yielding to Christ as Lord of their life OK Joel had his hand up. Well temperance is one of the eight Laws of health and when you give when you talk about the laws you basically usually talk about alcohol tobacco and cetera so it's part of it. Certainly it's out of there and if you look on the health one on the back as well then you'll see a lot more than what I have here all I'm showing you here are those areas that you're trying to get decisions on as starting commitment points OK so. I knew that what. This. If you're preparing someone for baptism. They need to make decisions to do these things so you're helping them as you're meeting with them when you're preparing for baptism and you're say OK well let's look at this one on health and you're kind of walking them through our understanding of health and cording to the Bible. And then you're helping them also to understand that there are some things according to Scripture that Christians should lay aside and if we're going to be obedient to Christ then we need to lay them aside and in as much as baptism is laying aside the old life being raised to a new life of obedience to Christ as Lord of our life those are commitments that we should really make before we wrap ties and you just share that with them and OK OK Now they have a struggle with something then you help them you know through the struggle obviously and that's a big part of process OK what else a practical stuff OK So dress in a dormant What is the. Minimum bar OK jewelry now are you going to talk to them about modesty in general yeah so what length of skirt do you tell them is good enough for baptism and what length is not good enough about this. Below that. Unfortunately you might give them guidance but but you're not going to draw a line for baptism that's the point you know why. Because the Scripture doesn't draw a line so if you're drawing a line for baptism you're doing it on your own OK you follow what I'm saying and that's why you know some people will say you know and understand you make a big deal about jewellery but there's these people these big fancy cars in the parking lot you don't make a big deal about that and they've got big fancy watches and whatever Well here's the problem in Scripture it tells us that we should not dress with costly clothing but it does not tell us how much is good enough and how much is not good enough and what have you so all we can do is teach on the principle right nothing in scripture says you know if you get a car that's nineteen thousand nine hundred that is OK but over twenty thousand is you know over the top I mean who's drawing that line when Scripture does not draw the line we cannot draw the line but when Scripture does draw the line we'd better draw the line that's the idea you understand so Scripture does draw the line on gold and pearls and precious stones which is representative of a dormant or jewelry it does not we do not believe address functional items like watches and things high clips or things that have a function although those need to be chosen with simplicity and modesty So anyway that one OK what else OK entertainment so what's the line what's the minimum when it comes to entertainment was the decision that you're trying to get before baptism or entertainment OK here's what I do when I'm preparing for someone for baptism with there's principles and stuff but I do draw a line here I just call it. Sinful entertainment. Now do some people watch too much T.V. Yes OK but. This is where there's some progressive stuff going on you know is is is news OK Is the Discovery Channel OK Is the you know what you know we're not going to draw all those lines but we do give principles and then we also say but when someone is baptized at a minimum they should make a commitment to Christ to eliminate any sinful entertainment out of their life. That means any music that is. Clearly suggestive or immoral or distasteful or what have you it clearly means you know movies that are shoot 'em up movies or movies. Adultery etc You know they're going to clean out their libraries and do but the bottom line is I mean I remember having to study with a guy and I said all that I thought he got it I was it I was having you know studies with he and his wife preparation Baptists and I would go over to their home and I'm never going over their home and right there by you know I've been studying with we're getting really close to baptism and they were like yeah yeah yeah ready to be baptized right by their T.V. was actually in the room that we were sitting in right near where I was was a a D.V.D. with you know commando or something you know some shoot em up thing that obviously had been watched here recently and they were sitting there and. And I did not feel cover I mean I was basically getting ready to go through the baths and they had told me verbal that they understood what I would say they had told me that they had eliminated sinful entertainment what have you and I. Just kind of you know sometimes you're in the middle saying like what's the use if they're playing a game here. Or whatever and I just knelt down and I picked that up and I said you know and we talked about this but this stuff is going to go. I said I mean this is incompatible with someone who is claiming to make a commitment to follow Christ as the Lord our life I mean these are the things that he died for. And suddenly he got it I mean like. God it and. Sometimes I'm just telling you. You need Ellen what uses some words which you talk about preparation for baptism She's these words she talks about people who are still attached the world etc And she says they should be faithfully dealt with. But I think that means they fully dealt with that means sometimes you have to shoot straight you have to be honest with them you have to appeal to their soul it does no good to baptize them and not tell them that and have them under the impression that they can go on that way I mean you don't care about the absence and you care about their Soul The baptism is only a value if they are surrendering their soul to Christ so that's what you really care about if if you start caring more about the baptism and you're just kind of sweeping stuff under the rug you know exists in their life then turn in your credentials. I mean you need to care about their soul that's what you're there for and it should bother you if that stuff is going on you know there's different ways to ask things I remember early on I would ask like Here I'll give you another one here. I would ask people if I was study tied and ask them. After the study on Tide I would say So do you understand does that make sense to you oh yes that's how I used to do it and then I started finding out the people were baptized and then they were during die. And so now I don't ask Does that make sense to you I ask so is that something you've begun to do. Those are two different questions those are two different questions lots of times people will you know they want to be baptized based on their intentions. You understand I'm saying you're not baptizing based on their intentions you're baptizing them based on their Mitt Mitt and this is not like you know they're these are these are not stop the world kind of commitments I mean we like to make them look like they're you know gigantic whatever but you know you can do it by the grace of God they can do this I mean these are things that just have to do with them making a commitment to follow Christ and they just test whether or not it's it's just intentions or if it's actual commitment so you need to actually ask people and if somebody says that everything's fine and you see him walking around with their necklace I hate to say it but when you get in the mating you've got to bring it up. I mean that's the tough part this is where the rubber meets the road this is where you know you have your or your soul is at stake as well as there is. And you know I've had many times where I've thought Someone's got it yeah I think they're there but then I'm watching it still and you know I got to say something I got to say something and you sit down with him you say you know you try to I try to do it many different ways like take I want you to take this card home with you and I want you to read it in the first person all these commitments read in the first person because like if you were to read the one. Page sixty nine number. Seventeen The last sentence on page sixty nine number seventeen says we will follow in the humble steps of Jesus and not wear jewelry or immodest clothing and I say I want you to read this whole card and I want you to put yourself in the first person and ask yourself. Am I comfortable making the commitments that are in this card if it's my name that's there and it is any. I think you have any question at all about that I want you circle that put a question mark and next time we get together with talk about so I give them a chance to you know let their own conscience deal with it instead of me having to deal with it but then they come back and say no passing over these foreign. You know they are. And then you've got to bring it up right you say well you know I notice that. That we've studied the issue on jewelry but I notice that you still wear your necklace do you want to talk to me about that is it something that. Is a struggle for you and then you let them talk and you find out where they're at and then you try to work through it but often times it comes down to the sole winner. Having a an uncomfortable conversation with the candidate. Happens I mean I've got some pastors in the room there are there many baptisms that don't have a moment of uncomfortable you know confrontation almost where you're having to make some discomfort and then lead them to admit something and then actually wrestle with the text and then make that decision right there in your presence I mean it happens all the time and it's the heart of soul winning. Yes and a frequent one a frequent one is the Sabbath the Sabbath you come to the Sabbath and they'll be you know well you know I don't know I mean in my situation like I've been working for this company for forty years and it's like Absolutely there's no if I don't do there's no one to cover for me and this is absolute whatever and you know so they kind of think that that's OK because you know I God wouldn't expect your exam saying so you then have to break the news too then. And we certainly explain that but if you have somebody who's who's deeply convicted like I had an E.M.T. and I said Well of course an E.M.T. you know no problem right he later came back to me and he said Pastor I just feel really funny because yes I'm an E.M.T. And yes we make emergency runs but the truth is I only make a couple emergency runs on Sabbath and the rest of the time they want me to be doing the laundry in the thing and sweeping the thing and whatever and he came to me under conviction and then end up going to his employer and saying look I'm willing to do this but this I'm just not comfortable with or what have you and the one thing about exceptions is Boy everybody likes to be the exception and you'll have people I mean people will say well what if what and what if I'm like look you know somehow I had somebody say what if you get off work at five o'clock Sabbath is right after that you can't get gas because you know they've given me this whole thing I'm thinking why is it that I never find myself in these strange situation. And I tell you why I don't put myself in these strange situations because I write I don't I don't want to be in those situations I try to avoid those situations and so there's always going to be exceptions but people like to make the exception the rules so you know as much as we'd like to communicate that there are exceptions we need we need to see that the spirit of someone is that they want to be obedient they actually are wanting to be faithful yes and then you show up at church have you read the baptismal vows Yeah I mean. What would you question I'm just asking which which which ones you know I mean what. What I'm saying is what would anyone question that should be OK OK. So so on this issue. Yes the World Church is very clear like if you were to read what the world church says about the wedding band where it allows for the wedding band Why is it saying that that a wedding band will not prevent you from church membership no jewelry would you. You know Sarah say Why so the world church is clear on this the latest statement by the World Church which was on jury was back all the way back in seventy two the end he affirmed it in one thousand nine hundred six and it basically states that we still believe that this is the standard that should be upheld and if you read more important to me is the inspired counsel so I went you know because as a pastor I don't look Believe me. The lower that the bar has to be for someone I don't want to make the bar higher than what God is making a bar your exam because then I'm getting in the way I'm causing problems and it's only making more difficult for me anyway so I don't want that at all so I had to for my own conscience sake just do some searching and I wish I had brought it now I didn't know we're going to get. I was out abroad now but I have a whole compilation spread across the compilation in which she speaks specifically about jewelry and she speaks about how those who maintain the fashions of the world she says they should not be allowed as members of the church. She's speaking about in preparation for baptism now now when she speaks about the fashions of the world I mean if there's one thing that you know and I've got other statements that kind of tied to it that she's very firm on it's that of jewelry so I believe that we're on solid ground there on the on this issue on clean meats I don't think anybody questions that one on alcohol tobacco and caffeinated beverages I stand on The Spirit of Prophecy statements let's put it this way she has two statements we shared one of them in which I spoke about each of those items as being sent full indulgences in one case the statement is even shorter. It says tea and coffee drinking is a sin and that's just you know so in my you know simple mind if something is sinful if it's a sin then it really should be laid aside before so when someone's making a commitment to Christ if it's a known outward sin then they ought to do that now we all have character flaws and none of us are perfect and we baptize people who are not perfect we know that but if it's something that's an action that's a clearly laid out thing that is sin for you to do then we should yield that prior to being baptized and you go right down the line not keeping the Sabbath. You know it all depends on if you want to say that that you know eating out and whatever is totally OK and I think again I just go to the Spirit of Prophecy the world church is supportive of the position that we've discussed so. When we talk in the mission conferences may sound a little bit of what you want to call it but we we. Try VERY careful to say basically our position is the world church position. That's our position. Not every place believes that because not every place is aligned with the world church unfortunately but the but we believe that this is the world church position somebody might argue with us but then we would go to those evidences that I've just shared That's what we do know one another one here let me just put something up here because I got all these questions going is Real quickly marriage you often study with people who are living together and I've had last series I did I had two couples who said yes we're living together but we're not having sex. We you know we made a commitment a decision a while back that we were not going to do it he agreed to it where you know genuine about it we're just waiting until such and such a time until we were. OK OK Number one. As as sincere as people sound. And as much as you want to give people the benefit of doubt we can't be totally assured of that but number two. There's a problem and I and I will express this to them the problem here is you know you live together and you're not married and when you come to church or you go anywhere you're not going to be able to go up to everybody and say hey by the way this we do that together but we're not having sex so it's good we're going to you know you're not going to do that so you're automatically putting a stain on the Christian name that you bear because you're not that people don't know what you're telling me and so it really the only. Appropriate proper thing for you to do if you'd like to be baptized is first be married. Or separate you know temporarily until you're married and find you no way to do that and then you can be baptized and then you can be married or what have you but but that living arrangement is just not appropriate even if they claim that they're not doing anything you say it. Anyway yes. You're saying that I'm the Bible worker and and the pastor. Yeah I would probably in that situation and I'm just being frank with you that I'm not already on this but I would probably study with them I would tell them what I believe what I believe the Seventh Day Adventist Church teaches I would say you know personally I do not believe that you are going to feel good about making a commitment to this Christ and this and becoming a part of some of them a church while being outside of what the seven believe is now you know I'm not here to say that the pastor will or won't back to you if you do that but I'm telling you that I believe that you're going to feel better about your commitment if you make this commitment I don't think you want to step in say I don't care what the pastor says I'm going to but I think that you can be honest about your convictions and appeal to them. You know without Because here's what happens if you are in a situation we have a pastor who is not thoroughly Seventh-Day Adventist forgive me for saying. If you're in that situation used to be faith. And and you are trying to build a relationship with individuals that will prepare them for heaven and that's your where your conscience and regardless of the baptism you're going to continue mentoring that person afterwards you're going to try to connect them to you know soul winning conservative minded people who are going to be active in the church and what have you so you're building something beyond just getting them ready for the baptism so you want to start building that right in them this is you're going to bring him to Michigan can't meeting you know you're going to all that stuff I brought people to Mission can't mean from Ohio anyway yes. OK I don't I don't fully understand the scenario but first of all I wouldn't call anyone a so-called evidence pastor I do believe that that there are Adventist pastors who have been just unfortunately taught in a system that has led them to not fully understand the church's position so you never know really where someone's at me because if about that but let's say that you come into a church and that is the culture of the church I mean look I was a lay person long before I was pastoring up I was a lay person for eight to ten years and I would have Vespers in my home I would have Bible studies in my home and I almost had and I don't want to make this sound wrong because I was very supportive of the church but almost a church within a church I mean I would have interests and study with them and get them ready for baptism and they would come to best at my home and we would all you know and I would basically be trying to develop disciples and disciple people I would speak positively about the pastor I would be supportive of the pastor but I would work in a way that I felt convicted was the best way to work and when you. First come into a place you don't have that so you've got to start finding people you've got to start building relationships you've got to win people's hearts you know you may have people in the car geisha who are very winnable I mean every car geisha has people who are not fully where you think maybe they should be but the reasons are not what you think they might be and they're very open and and honest hearted and it just takes a little influence and a little talking and a little what have you before you start building relationships and you know so it depends on the scenario depends on the people that you're with but you have to use what work wisely work supportively work faithfully in any setting there in so anyway OK I think we went through some of the big hitters but I would also put on here devotional life I always talk to them about the devotional life. And try to get them in their devotional life while we're still preparing for baptism and I will talk to them about forgiveness. I'm not talking about receiving it I'm talking about giving it I don't want somebody who's burying carrying around grudges being baptized while they you know whatever I want to make sure that there's that they're dealing with that kind of thing so these are some of the main ones I don't go through like a machine gun and say OK. With all these practical things I'm just telling you they come in the context of that entire nineteen points right but I'm telling you because you have to know that these are the areas where the rubber meets the road these are the areas where they're going to be tested in their consecration and their commitment and so you have to be you know clear on these areas yourself and then be full of sympathy and patience but the ability to you know really encourage someone to take a stand and God will bless you with it so I want you to see that we're going to be developing here in. Michigan a baptismal preparation guide. And it's going to cover all these areas and have a sheet in the end that will kind of you'll see it would look like when it's all done it will be a little booklet to help for those who would like it reparation or access this media was brought to you by audio verse a website dedicated to spreading God's word through free sermon audio and much more if you would like to know more about audio verse if you would like to listen to more sermons lead to visit W W W audio verse or.

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