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Clifford Goldstein


Clifford Goldstein

Editor of the Adult Sabbath School Ministries Quarterly



  • December 28, 2017
    9:15 AM
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This message was presented at the G twenty seventeen conference arise in Phoenix Arizona for other resources like this visit us online at W.W.W. dot. Org. A lot of like to say a prayer and then we can get started let's let's. Have only Father I thank you for the opportunity to be here and I thank you for just the wonderous message you've given us this present truth message which there is no thing else comes even close to it it's a privilege and it's a responsibility I to spray that when the seminar is done will come away strengthened in aspects of what we believe and why we believe it and I ask this all in Jesus name Amen. I guess you know my name is Clifford Goldstein I'm the editor of the adult Bible study guide the Sabbath school quarterly I've been I've been at the G.C. about thirty three years I've been editing the quarterly in about twenty nineteen years and I just wrote this book called baptizing the devil evolution in the seduction of Christianity and this seminar is basically based on things in the book if I'm not going to be able to cover everything that you could just read the book OK and. Some things I might be able to flesh out a little more because actually when I when I got done with the book I just I'm still reading and studying and always I'm hoping to get opportunities like this to talk about these things more and I want to go beyond what I just had in the book and the essence I did not write this book specifically for Seventh Day Adventists I wrote it for any serious Christian they take their faith seriously they take scripture seriously but they've been inundated by the very powerful and exceedingly affective propaganda coup. Of evolution it's become part of the intellectual culture and a lot of thinking people are going to struggle Well how could you know put it science and so forth and yet at the same time they see the contradiction and I spent about five years on this book three years reading and studying and then about a year and a half putting it together and I have been freed from this will just it's science and I'm going to be very careful read the book I'm not anti science I'm anti what they call scientism maybe some of you have experienced this you're talking to someone and they say but it's sunny hands never experience that and what's the implication the implication is we need to back out down and Jenna flecked before it and surrender any and all right Carol century views because after all it's sorry and it's and let's face it science is pretty impressive OK it's it's astonishing what science has done what it can do but it's also just as fascinating when you wonder stand what science has not done and what science cannot do and that's some of the things I want to look at in the seminar and you know I've given things like this a few times before and inevitably every time I. I don't get through a third of my material and I have even more material now so I'm going to I think that would be give a skill now that you know the different topics but I'm not going to lock myself in of that we'll just see how it goes and at some point maybe the last fifteen minutes if somebody could this goes from nine fifteen to what time ten fifteen right if maybe somebody at ten o'clock. You could just say to me hey it's about you know just point ten o'clock because I'd like to leave it open somewhat to some questions to have an idea of maybe some of the things that you're interested in that I might be able to address because I don't want sort of peer and wax eloquent about a bunch of stuff that I'm interested in and that might not be what you have but we've got five hours and I do think in five hours we could cover a fair amount of material and I don't and don't sit here and blindly accept everything I'm saying you know it's funny I've been publishing books now for decades there's a problem with that is I don't believe everything the way I believe to free their kids or go and yet it's imprint its imprint and sometimes In fact I'll tell one last story I used to do concerts tapes with American cassette ministries. And I started doing that like thirty some years ago and then I remember one day I want to say to the guy you know some of these tapes that I made thirty years ago or tapes that's how far back we're going I don't necessarily things see things this way and I thought about saying you know maybe be good if you could kind of pull them but then I thought about it later I thought no no no because maybe the stuff I'm speaking about today. There might be people that don't have the slightest interest in it that might not be where they're at Where's the cliff or Goldstein thirty years ago might be what they need at that time so anyway I. I don't know how I even got on that topic I mean I lost my train of thought I got to stick to my notes or else I'm going to go all over the place I want to spend a few minutes. Talking about how I became an advocate is because it's very to a certain degree related on a couple of levels to what I want to talk about. I grew up in a very secular Jewish home. I often joke I say in our family the Jewish holidays boiled down to they try to kill us they failed let's seat. That was if you have Jewish friends secular Jewish friends you're low that that's the essence of it right there now I had only just been lucky way because I was raised I was educated in a secular environment I was raised in educated on evolution I don't remember in my life ever questioning it I don't remember it being ever challenging it or ever hearing it challenge and I remember distinctly I was in the fifth grade and I remember I had this blue textbook and I don't really have a good of a member but I remember spin home and memorizing the different Aidan's of the Earth's history the angel with care archaea so it Cara protozoa Cara Paleozoic Mesozoic incentive Zoe I still remember that from the fifth grade and then I remember distinctly two they had of picture of like a shallow pool and then one cell creature then a jellyfish then some kind of and fifteen you know and then then so a marsupial or something and then a hominid and then at the end or thaw and then a human being and they drew a line through it and that was human history human evolution I remember that distinctly in the fifth grade then you jump together you jump to the ninth grade Nautilus junior high school and a little aside I found out a while back the dog bachelor and I were in that same junior high school in Miami Beach at the same time there was a Burger King everybody hung out with and did a lot of stuff on Mark and say what we did but but Doug knew the Burger King but anyway I remember in the ninth grade I thought I was hot stuff good that's working a little better. Because I knew what ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny. How many of you know that I was in the ninth grade and I knew what that was and that was the idea that a human embryo goes through the phases of evolution got a few look at it and you'll see fins and gills and so forth I was being taught that in nineteen sixty nine even though decades earlier decades earlier it had been known to have been a fraud even a hard nosed evolutionist the Stephan Jay Gould. Thought it was criminal the way this thing was being promulgated it was first promulgated around the turn of the century and in the ninth grade I was being taught it one thousand nine hundred sixty nine then jump ahead to the University of Florida Gainesville I had an anthropology course and nothing particularly stands out but I do remember how evolution was the all to MIT subtext of everything we had been taught OK now what happened was in one thousand nine hundred seventy nine in the fall of one thousand nine hundred seventy nine I had a very mostly dramatic I guess every conversion experience was dramatic but I became a born again believer in one nine hundred seventy nine. All I knew was this and I'm going to deviate on this now too far it hit me about twenty one year I was about twenty one years old this was a few years earlier and it hit me that truth had to exist truth with a capital T. There's a world there's a universe there something here something you have to explain it and it hit me at that age something and whatever explained it that is the truth with a capital T. now my realization that truth had to exist was a completely separate issue from whether I or anyone could ever know it OK totally separate issue the fact that it had I knew I could be wrong about that there's something here maybe we're all brains in vats fine we're all brains in vats maybe the universe always existed fine whatever it was there was something here something happened which explained it that had to be the truth. And I thought if it were humanly possible because again the fact that it had to be there and me knowing it totally separate things but I thought if I could know what I wanted to know and I didn't care where it led me what it cost me what I had to suffer what I had to give up I thought if I could know what I wanted to know it and all I know is of all the different ways I could have gone all the different paths I ended up becoming a Seventh Day Adventist OK now I'm jumped ahead a little there but I've got converted in the fall of one thousand nine hundred seventy nine and I had a born again experience I was born it was total experience there was nothing rational nothing intellectual about my experience I mean it was very much I don't like to compare myself to Paul but what did possible Paul's what did Saul of Tarsus a study get him to do I got him to kill Christians OK And then he's walking along and he has the supernatural experience he's born again and overnight he becomes a believer in Jesus that is something exactly what happened to me so I'm a born again believer and instantly it's like all reality changes for me is if it was if my whole life I was taught the earth was flat and now I suddenly discover it's round at the most it's it was amazing it was at the most fundamental level almost I realised almost everything I had believed and been taught my whole life was wrong and that was rough I was twenty three years old but there was one area in particular where instantly I sensed a clash I sensed a problem and that was evolution and my born again experience which is kind of fascinating because I know folks if you would have said to me the. Cliff you are a sinner. I would have looked at you like. What are you talking about. And I say that only to show you I knew nothing I knew nothing of the Bible nothing of Christianity I mean I knew nothing about anything I was green I didn't even the idea of being a sinner but for some reason at the most gut level I sensed how could this be true and evolution be true and I went to the Christians in the health food store where I first met they were admin it's at that time I didn't know they were Adventist it would have meant nothing to me had they said they were and in the beginning and then in the beginning they were just kind of brushed me off always not a big deal with illusions not true you know you know and so on and so forth and I. And I I struggled with that until finally finally they said they gave me a book to read and they said read this book and I don't even remember who the author of the book was it was creationist literature and quite frankly some creationist literature could be a speculative and as bad science as the quote Bona feely stuff but what happened was is the scales fell off my eye. I saw something that I had never seen before and little did I realize that what I was about to experience is a fundamental problem in the whole question of science that we will touch on later look the bones are in the ground. The fossils are in the ground no one's going to deny that they're in the ground and you know the Satan created the bones to test our faith please let's not go there OK let's not that's the kind of stuff that just makes creationists that's the kind of stuff where they justifiably put us on the class with flat earth others OK so the bones here in the ground but for the first time in My Lai. I was shown see all my life I was turpitude them through one power Adonai and we'll come back to this word later the bones are there my whole life I was taught well that was because of billions of years of evolution and suddenly I was shown for the first time hey there's other ways to interpret these things there are other ways you can interpret it to explain the phenomena in fact this is called in the philosophy of science is called the under determined determination of theory by evidence and it's the idea that it's the idea that you can. You can have any one of a number of different theories to explain phenomena and we'll look at that later on you could have any one of a number of things and they make accurate predictions I'm going to give you an example later specifically of what I'm talking about but the point was was that for the first time in my life I was shown wow there's another way to interpret this and you know I was pretty angry I felt pretty angry it wasn't you know it wasn't so much that you know it was a secular world view what else were they going to teach me other than evolution but what I was got angry about was the horde nose dogmatic way that it was taught I was taught it as an absolute fact uncontroverted unquestioned on challenge as I said I don't remember one time growing up. Ever ever hearing it being challenged I mean you can challenge it any more than you challenge that the earth was round after all folks this is science science and isn't science this rational objective unbiased view of reality and how reality works I mean this was the middle of the twentieth century and I was already in the late twentieth century C'mon science has proven itself over and over and over again I love this quote from the philosopher Bertrand Russell he says what science cannot tell us mankind cannot know. It's pretty heavy it's pretty heavy see the idea is that only science can reveal to us truth and that one day all that will ever need to know will be revealed to us through signs and again if you're ever in a debate with someone and what they'll say to you but it's science and the whole idea is while it's science we have to bow down and surrender before it and a lot of people feel that way and they're not dumb there's a lot of good reasons for people to believe that way doesn't Nestle one of the things I discovered in my book and by writing you talk about you can have a very very very good reasons. For believing in things that ultimately turn out to be wrong OK it's an important point you could have good reasons to believe in things that eventually you're turning out wrong let me read you another quote this was from an article called The folly of scientism somebody recently wrote a real nasty review of my book an Adventist today which but I expect a day to be positive and I'll you know I got so ticked off to see distorted that they let me write a response and they published the response and it got a little heated on their own on there but I wasn't going to just you know I said I would be very happy somebody to write a review of my book and point out faults and weaknesses because that could help me then hone in my arguments or if I had an argument that was wrong. You know it's one of these things you know you don't push it anymore but instead he twisted everything I said and attack me and all that but he was a he called me a scientific nihilist which means you know just reject science I don't reject I have my I'D HAVE a boy who'd be dead if it wasn't for science OK but what I am dealing with with what they call scientism and let me read you a quote from an evolutionary biologist. Both in the work of professional philosophers and in popular writings by natural sciences it is frequently claimed that natural science does or soon will constitute the entire domain of truth and this attitude is becoming more widespread among scientists themselves because it's the idea that you have a natural only universe and that science alone could answer the questions now it's very alluring. You know I mean it look what science has taught us you know a few hundred years ago some unfortunate old woman selling herbs in a market place could have been burned at the stake as a witch for causing a drought that now we could better understand came because of changes in temperatures in the ocean OK And sure the ancient isn't good is fear that Jaguars it attacking the moon at night were jaguars attacking the moon at night could now better be explained as as a lunar eclipse. And you could go on and on thanks to science we no longer bleed people we split the atom we've gone to the moon you know and build smart phones the list goes on and on and on we've extended human why if you know as we've known you know in other words and science and technology they've greatly impacted. Our life and how we live in They've opened up a whole new vistas of understanding of things that we people never understood before that's why should I have been taught evolution why shouldn't I have been taught evolution in any other way other than this unquestionable unassailable and unchallenged objective truth the kind of truth that science supposedly gives us and that's really what I want to look at because it's you know every age lives with its Smith's we tend to think well you know we're too sophisticated we don't live with myths for we we now have science but see that's the Metamath that's the great great myth of our age because it means it's got to be true and that I think can lead people to well I think it already has led people even in our day and age to police some incredibly foolish things and it's got some devastating effects in the church too you know a number of years ago I had a column in the Avenues review for. Since probably Bill Clinton was president. And. But ten years ago I wrote a column and I didn't think much of it I call that seventh day Darwinians and I took the position the cost of your or. Which I don't care I want to change one thing I believe it but I basically took the position which I thought was pretty on controversy Oh and if you're a Seventh Day Adventist seven day. But if you're Seventh Day Adventists and you believe in billions of years of evolution you're really I said Don't you think you ought to find another church to be a member of now and to this day and I hope we get through it put it this way let me fly me phrase it let me let me phrase it for you to let you understand least how I see the issues if the vast majority of some of the world's smartest people the Ph D. S. The Nobel Laureates the postoffice if the world's experts in physics chemistry biology particle physics. Astronomy astrophysics physiology if the fast majority of the of these people the vast majority of them are correct. Then I tell people we're not going to hell because there is no Hell if they're correct the world's some of the smartest if they're all correct in what they see the science proves I think all showing in our religion is a joke our religion cannot possibly be true you know people would debate this and I deal with this in the book I do with a whole section of the book trying to show the sad attempts by still stick evolutionists to make it fit with the Bible OK it's it's pathetic so I'm staked out a pretty heavy thing I'm saying if the world smart these people if they're right our religion cannot punish I'm sure there are people say oh no no no no but I would I would love to get a one on one with someone let's look at the text so we're dealing with a heavy thing here OK But anyway I took that point. That if you because my point here is and you would have thought of what the been a big deal but I'm telling you it could cost a bit I'm not going to get in all the details but it caused quite a few Your R. and I got left twisting in the wind and all that but that's another that's another story OK now but I want to take this question here for a moment when I when you make the statement that. If you believe in scientism that everything could be explained through science and science alone what kind of statement is that. What's that. OK No not necessarily what kind you see that's a philosophical statement that's not a scientific statement and see one of the things I discovered was. A lot of times just because scientists make a statement doesn't necessarily make it a scientific statement but do you realize though what I just said and this lure is so powerful I remember I kept on saying I need to stop this I just stepped into my own trap when I say it's not a scientific statement it's a philosophical statement what does that imply. OK OK but if I'm trying to basically I'm saying hey it's not as credible. As it would be if it were a scientific statement see I stepped into my own trap right there well that's not even a scientific statement it's a philosophical statement well so what just because it's a scientific statement doesn't necessarily make it true as well and that some of the things I want to I want to point out with but the point is it's not always easy it's not always easy to make those distinctions but anyway as I said I worked through I worked through the. When I met the have been is and I worked through that and I suddenly realized my whole life I had been duped but then anyway years later after I become an avenue ist and I write this seventh day Darwinians and I had no idea it would cause but don't kid yourself there are people who believe in evolution. Who teach in our colleges and I just find that I just I mean I I could it's the kind of thing I could see myself going to of some avenues college and dousing myself in gasoline and burning myself a love I have that's how strongly I feel about it it is on believe a bull to me that we had this is allowed to go on in our church I just find it in comprehensible and yet people will fight beyond it the guy that wrote this attack on a date is affiliated with one of our colleges I'll give you three guesses as to which one it is but I'm optimistic anyway anyway the point is but you know I didn't do this seminar for them I didn't write the book for these people. I try truly wrote the book for people my and I want to be careful who I think truly take scripture seriously and really say wow how can I possibly You can't harmonize these things how do I deal with this how do I deal with the facts again I'm saying if the world some of the world's smartest people the Ph D.'s biology chemistry people who spend their lives studying in this stuff people get into the most incredible specialized detail it's incredible the specialization in biology and stuff these people that are experts in it I think their foundation really fundamentally wrong and if they're not there's I just don't see any possible way our religion could be made any sense of it all and I hope we'll spend a little time towards the end looking at that so it's a fairly heavy issue but again for me having done the research I've done in the reading I've done so you're saying that the world's smartest people the Ph D.'s and all these people the wrong Yeah yeah and I don't have the slightest problem saying it and I'm hopeful when I'm done you might not agree with me but at least you'll be able to see. Where I'm coming from why I hold the views I do because very a lot of the stuff I didn't know anything about before till I started doing the research and really what I really deal with and what we're going to deal with here and what I deal with in the book more than anything it's a philosophy of science and I show people just because it's science and here's the thing too it's a theme that I touch on over and over well I'll give you an example I remember forty years ago Time magazine cover article on the dangers of saturated fat OK it was science the latest and greatest science forty years ago. Don't eat the fat back OK don't need your pork OK saturated fat would juicy Time magazine about two years ago the latest and greatest science well saturated fat might not really be so bad after all so it was science back then science now they're saying different things but now this but that's not my point because when you understand science that's happens all the time but this is the point and I emphasize this over and over again saturated fat they can stick it in a lab they could put it under a microscope they can dissect it they can bombard it with Proton be they can do all the stuff to would in a hundred different labs at the same time around the world they could do all the stuff to looking at the same thing scientists seeing the same evidence and they come up with contradictory or conflicting views or opinions this is about something that's here and now they could put it in the lab and yet when scientists tell us. That eight hundred million years ago the the Dyna saw evolved feathers eight hundred million years ago were s'posed were expected to bow down and accept it something eight hundred miss something that nobody has ever seen something that's completely out of reach she remember everything that they're telling us about evolution they're looking at things now and retro dicked the way they way back in the past but my point is if they're struggling over and disagreeing over what they could see in a lab now why should we still dogmatic Leigh except when they speculate about things they say happened things that no longer were in existence things that are not happening now happen else they say happened billions of millions or even billions of years ago before anybody was ever there to see it and these are things just to keep in mind anyway I want to look at some of this stuff and so I said I have so much material here and somebody can keep an eye on it. You guys remember the movie Apollo thirteen after the ship blew up there was this great scene where Ed Harris plays the head of NASA flight operations and they got a little white board and they got a picture of the earth the moon and the spacecraft and Ed Harris states finally decide what they're going to do is they're gonna let the the spacecraft go around the moon and let the moves gravity slingshot the capsule back to earth and guess what those of you old enough remember what happened it were. It worth the science word and the fascinating thing about the science. Is this was the science developed in the seventeen hundreds by Sir Isaac Newton if they could have taken Newton and transported him to NASA they coulda sat up in the room given him a sheet of paper and a pencil and a few calculations and knew could have told them exactly what they would have to do and they didn't need Newton they did it themselves and it brought it back what a powerful example. Of the success of science I mean it worked it worked I mean it did exactly everything that they said it did so it worked therefore if the site here's a crucial point and something I deal with in the book and I've written on this it's very very tricky it's very deceptive this gun is just about to start to taste like. Human I'll a rubber band scuse me and my wife would have a fit if she saw me doing this. And OK now it worked no no you could leave OK OK Oh don't don't bother with my God I don't want to be my girl on. The science worked what does that then tell us about the science now if you've read my book just out of curiosity because and I say this for a reason how many you have read my book yet baptized in the devil OK All right well all right well this once was not good that hardly anybody read it but good on the other hand as I just don't want to repeat stuff that you my if everybody would a razor hand I'd have to redo the seminar because I don't wanna. But the science works there for what you'd say the science is correct isn't right. That makes sense haha Well suppose I were to tell you that I believe in many ways that has that has absolutely nothing to do with it maybe maybe but I'm going to show you what the don't examples where the science works and the science works even though the theories behind the science have long been discarded but let's just take a look at the Newton thing for a moment OK first of all Newton they say to the discover of gravity well everybody knew what grad gravity was there they didn't you know he put it in mathematical eyes did but Newton had absolutely no idea what gravity was in fact he said that the idea of two bodies across empty space attracting each other he says it's so absurd I don't know why anybody would believe it Newton was talking about his own theory Secondly Newton built his whole theory on the idea of absolute space and absolute time space is the same everywhere time is the same everywhere no change those theories are now considered. Have been considered false Albert Einstein the general relativity the bung them and third Einstein's theory I mean Newton's theory I've heard some people say Newton's theory was overturned by Einstein and relativity I think that's too strong it was shown to be very much more limited than people thought it was it works that at slow speeds when you get up to high speeds his theory falls apart completely Now the point is he created this theory he had no idea what it was he built it unfolds premises and in a lot of conditions it absolutely falls apart the formula doesn't work this is true if you're finding this this is scientific truth c This comes to a fascinating concept that I discovered in the philosophy of science there are scientists and philosophers of science that when I was working on my manuscript. I gave it to a friend of mine who is a scientist and any time I was saying anything about science as a quest for truth he said to me he Mark did he put an X. and he said any on a scientist of tell you science is not about searching for truth he said all science tell you about is how the world appears to how the world appears to us and how we can make predictions about it but it really doesn't tell us anything absolutely true about it they say you know ped some people say no no science is there it's to tell us about the real world others say science is not about that cannot tell us what's out there all science could do was help us make predictions and if the Predict trims work that's all you need I mean Newton got the spacecraft back to earth what more do you want you start getting into the reasons why they say you're getting into metaphysics you're getting into philosophy you're getting in to a whole bunch of stuff so my point here is right off the bat that we see a science even as successful. As successful as Newton's law of gravity is it necessary what we're led to believe it's fascinating that on something so basic what exactly science God has what it can do what it teaches there's an incredible amount of debate credible now the lot of practicing scientists there's a saying they say shut up and do the calculations now there is a lot of practice since I don't care about the stuff and that's fine you don't have to care about it but then don't expect every schnook to sit down and Ballard down before your pronouncements as if they're absolute You Go ahead stand OK let me just put a little bit let me just see a little bit more all right look let me this is OK or you've got me questions you got any questions on anything so far we can plug on ahead go ahead. OK OK Yeah yeah OK this is good I'm going to repeat it he asked the question he was grew up in a place where they didn't do wasn't raised on what is evident what is the basic evolutionary theory OK here's the gist of it this is what and again from an Adventist perspective if you're a creationist and you really believe our stuff think for a minute you know I'm telling you folks are much going to get into this here. We have I've been and haven't it's now since eighty and some of the stuff I read in Alan why it's on believable We don't even begin to realize what we come up with her. In and the other day I was reading in patriarchs and prophets and it's facets I have spent years studying in the philosophy asides and then I'll remain things the lines from one point. But my goodness this the fact there's a paragraph in the book education that I was going to write one of my review columns on and I said I spend five year study on the philosophy of science on my own and here's Ellen White in a few paragraphs caught the essence of everything it took me five years to learn but the point is Ellen White makes a statement and again I read it just the other day because I've been most in the stuff for years and I read it the other morning and you know it's very heavy folks I told her I was twenty one years old and I thought I want to know the truth no matter the cost and then no other morning and I haven't read Ellen White for a long time I read something in patriarchs and prophets she was talking something about the end of the loop. And I thought where did she get us you know this had to have been inspired and it just hit me wow I wanted to know truth no matter what hit me man I found it I mean it just kind of I saw a little personal silly thing but like was well but she made a statement she said the Sudanese people start speculating away from the written word they get forgot what it was they're going to get into nothing but error upon error upon error so let me let's just talk for a minute about what some of the world's smartest people right now. The god of this experts the Ph D.'s You know the woman whom I could give you the whole it's like an Daniels It was a Daniel three with the Timbo the sack put the boom boom boom and then eight times to get to those eight instruments the some of the world's smartest people right now I have a book on my a paper called The Universe from Nothing from going them or tipping they're out of nothing now then you get they'll start quantifying it will it's really a quantum fluctuation or something so they don't say it's nothing OK it's a quantum fluctuation fine then word of a quantum but they'll say out of nothing you had the big bang and space time matter energy all instantly were created out of nothing OK or a quantum fluctuation I mean one of the dumbest quotes ever and Stephen what's the guy the guy in the wheelchair Hawking's. That's terrible the guy in the room and excuse me. Yeah that's terrible words Forgive me. He said because there such a thing as the law of gravity I'm paraphrasing his book The he wrote this new book on the about the year because there are such a thing as the law of gravity the universe will create itself out in nothing I mean come on come on gravity I mean what do you think gravity is real what do you think people are getting all this plastic surgery from you know it's gravity OK But anyway there are out of nothing the universe. Well we want to try to lighten things up a little the you that the universe the The Big Bang spent you know the big bang they teach space and time began at the Big Bang which is kind of fascinating and then you have these because of gravity these clumps of matter Cole last planets stars galaxies Bay and then the basic chemicals some of these basic chemicals that were there eventually some of these chemicals became organic chemicals that somehow then turn into simple life forms and there's life form was able to reply Cade itself and then it replicated itself and then it started to spread and then through the forces of random mutation and natural selection they first know you started out with this time and and oh I do with this book they say they have all different theories some still we often heard the shallow pool that's the common one some are saying no no no it was in clay some are saying it's in it's in thermal vents and some are arguing they're arguing that life began in molten rock at least a thousand degrees centigrade OK but wherever it was they admit they don't know they only know that it happened the simple life form started and then over millions of billions of years I thought a fascinating a simple life evolves into an eighty ton brontosaurus. And then the eighty ton brought venture really died off and because the dinosaurs died off that then enabled other creatures to exist and then over time billions of years in all that all that stuff eventually human beings came in fact I'm reading right now Charles Darwin's The Descent of Man and it's just the words that's basically the theory there was nothing planned nothing calculated just given enough time now but the thing is you know it can if you truly think about it. It's preposterous but it awful lot of people and it can I mean it's amazing how many people believe in it how many people kept it that's the essence of it that's what they taught the only thing I find sillier than it is the idea that Jesus did it. And that's what theistic evolutionists teach that Jesus did it go ahead. Well once it's a step of course species it daft Of course nobody denies that that's not an issue of course species adapt I don't think that's ever been a question but the fact that my check engine light goes on in my car doesn't mean that given enough time my car's going to turn into a Boeing seven forty seven OK no question species adapt God created it that way see one of the things to I this is a little bit deviation if I ever taught a class in philosophy of science or philosophy in religion I would start out I said I've creating a word I'm going it's my made up word I expect you to know it know what it means I don't care if you believe it or not that's a separate issue I would call it partial is. You know almost every heresy that I think we've ever seen in the advantage church is an imbalance of truth take one example there's a theology that came out of the Left Coast for forty years I kept on thinking after the guy who promoted it died it would have died with them but no such luck. But it emphasizes something true it emphasizes the. The subjective side of the Gospel we see what Christ has done for us on the cross and our hearts are changed we become friends with God. There becomes the whole Gospel is nothing about any kind of legal thing with God the whole book the gospels about our relationship with God and how we respond to God Well that's a wonderful truth and there's a lot of truth to it but that truth was taken to such an extreme that these people mock the whole idea of substitutionary atonement they do not believe Jesus died as a substitute or paid the penalty for our sins on a cross so you got an aspect of Karl Marx I believe Karl Marx was onto something how could you possibly deny the Raul and influence of economics in history it's there are Marx got an element of truth and what did he do he took it and he so over emphasized that we got the joys of communism for all this time and it obviously didn't work and with Darwin this comes back there's no question species adapt so you get an element of truth this is what I truly believe happened in fact I got these three great quotes in my book where people were saying it's amazing that Darwin's theory of like natural of survival of the fittest reflected the culture of Britain at the time with this dog eat dog mercantile capitalism and you know this whole idea of you know the strong overcoming the we and so on and they thought it was kind of amazing that Darwin that you know someone said it's amazing that God would just reveal His truth to eighteenth century Englishman you know or maybe the fact was the saint this eighteenth century Englishman reflecting on what he saw in his society applied it to nature so I think Darwin saw nature change there's no question it adapts you take an element of truth and you expand it to really get out right nonsense I mean think about it for a minute to folks if what we believe his career. Think about how utterly utterly wrong science is and all these scientists are they're not even you know there's a there's a thing they say when something is so bad and it deviates so far there's a book out about against string theory and they said it's not even wrong it's so far off it so far so think about this for a minute if we believe six literal day creation Adam God breathed in him the breath of life this whole thing and were correct Think about it just it's and again it's Ellen White said how vain and how to set them and how far off they'll get if they move away from what the Scripture teaches and that's what I believe evolution is yes sir go ahead. OK. Go. For. It. Yeah yeah. Yeah yeah oh. Well he's bringing up the question that I brought up earlier about saturated fat do you hear for that yes that's right you could look at the saturated fat now you could do experiments on it now you could do it now and the fact is they didn't they still debate over that and now they're speculating about things hundreds millions even billions of years ago and it's a totally different kind of science you know Richard Dawkins would say that evolution is uncertain if you can be sure that Paris is in the northern hemisphere we can be a certain that evolution is true. And the problem is a lot of people pick up on that stuff and they buy into it and they believe in it one of my talks I'm going to give later. They be will even try to do with this morning and I might even do it. After the break is Why does science put it this way or I am going to bring up that's not art that's good I'm going to talk next about why does science which teaches a so much has revealed to us saw me you so amazing and the technology that we're so again it's two different things are very quickly our cell phones and I use this example in the book our cell phones use two of the most successful technologies after this and we'll take a break they use general relativity and quantum physics they're my They're Vanno they both are digital special relativity is not that hard I mean I could do the math for special relativity general relativity Einstein can do the math he had to get an old teacher to teach Einstein the math for general relativity and quantum forget that but our cellphones use quantum physics and general relativity and yet if you Brian Greene wrote this book called The Elegant Universe and whatever read it Brian they'll again the bottom line is these two theories which produced the most incredible they say quantum theory could give you predictions like the length of the the with of the American continent compared to what hair. That's how accurate predictions quantum physics could give you a course of five we get time later accurate predictions are absolutely nothing to do with whether a theory is true or not you can I can give you an example I can make up the most ludicrous theory and I could give you accurate predictions from it but the quantum physics makes incredibly accurate predictions general relativity and you know what they're saying as they now understand these two theories they contradict each other they contradict each other our understanding now of quantum theory and our understanding of general relativity they're saying they both can't be right and yet they work they both work so this idea that the the theory works and you could get tech Now this was one of the eye openers for me and I'll leave with this as we go we go to the break The fact that a thirty works the fact that you can get accurate predictions from it the fact that you could create workable technology from it is a completely separate issue from whether the theory happens to be true or not and when that first dawned on me I thought wow wow that was fascinating and perhaps later we'll pick that up or look what how long the breaks are for fifteen minutes OK let's take a break and then I'll see you back here if you're going to come back in. This message was recorded at the G Y C twenty seventeen conference arrives in Phoenix Arizona. She Y.C. support the ministry of the Seventh Day Adventist Church seeks to inspire young people to be by will be East crisis entered and so many Christians to download or purchase other resources like this visit us online at W W W dot she Y.C. Web dot org.


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