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Logo of AdAgrA 2018: Something Better

Behold the Beautiful

Carol Sikora

Description

Flower growing is artistic and thoughtful. With invested time you can learn skills and knowledge to bless others with beauty.

Presenter

Carol has over 30 years of learning and exploring hands-on farming. Her will to succeed has overcome the personal challenge of no formal, agricultural education. Her 4 children were educated through farmers markets, managing farms, and experimental growing in Colorado.

Conference

Recorded

  • January 18, 2018
    9:30 AM

Series

Logo of Creative Commons BY-NC-ND 3.0 (US)

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Something even know about yesterday I'm getting into my sixty's. I'm going to try to share some of my victories in defeat through with you. And I'm really a small scale farmer really small. I don't do a large garden and I never have a farm but I've been really successful in what I've done and I would encourage people not to get too big. Step to try to stay small because if you don't have a workforce for those that have families you've got a little bit of a workforce you know having children and I used all my journey going to find out. This afternoon more about that but I had four children so they all helped me and everything that I did I mean his own six if anybody you know zones and sometimes seven depending on where I put them I'm a south facing hill side this is our third farm in the same valley and so it's. Very warm but I'm still only about Zone six with my greenhouses I probably can get away with zone eight at times because I can overwinter some things in there like Dal use Dell you bulbs I actually just leave them in there because it's a bedded greenhouse so there's lots amassing if you understand that there's a lot of heat retained in those beds we come from a little town it's about two thousand out hasn't grown much over the thirty five years that we've lived there I'm a high desert and considered a high desert we have to irrigate all are can you stop just a moment. If you will do starting I think we should wait on the photos. I have to irrigate everything we do not have William fourteen inches of rainfall in a year including snow and at fifty five thousand eight hundred feet in elevation above sea level the nights are very cool and the days can be very hot during the summer so there's a really extreme whether it's winter summer spring or fall there's really extreme on either end between. Morning and night. One thing I really want to highly recommend if you can at all and if you can hear my talk later you'll see how I progressed on my greenhouses but I really highly recommend greenhouses even if you kin. Bend get a bender and make your own bike and do it because there's lots of ways you can do it or even find ones in fields I bought things because someone wasn't using it and so because you're going to enhance what you can grow especially in my environment it's so exterior that greenhouse current cuts ultraviolent light because we're at fifty five thousand eight hundred feet it's really hard on plants extremely hard and. Greenhouses I really I really encourage you to use if you're going to do production. Or even vegetables because they just regulate temperatures better in we actually have to greenhouses and we don't have any heaters in I'm no fans they're basically just tunnels you know that we use one is a bed greenhouse but we were really really basic we're not high tech at all what we do which makes it really nice for you all because you can do it I'm just going courage in you that you can do it you get you know early early season production and late season production when you have greenhouses which extends the time that you can grow which means to extend the time that you can actually make some money off of what you're doing if that's what you're going with this. So there was a lot of. Footwork. In what I did as far as selling flowers because we're doing with flowers right now and this session I strictly went by word of mouth and everything I did at that time there was no computers there is no news feed there was no Internet that we really use so everything was done by word of mouth and a lot of the things I did. As showers baby showers wedding showers wedding I started to do funerals and I gifted these to a lot of people I would just make bouquets and bring them or say I do you want someone to do your wedding would you be interested in you know and because I got to know my neighbors in my. Where I live a lot and so people knew I did that and so I would gift a lot of things to people so that they could know what I was doing and I actually really like doing that it sounds like it's a waste of time but I don't believe that I believe everything is a ministry that I do and in a small town speaks volumes to when you're you're doing some of these things for people. And so I'm going to tell you some of the ways I marketed my flowers relatives Farmers Market my C.S.A. nursery. A local for my dahlias I do I do all all the flowers in the church every week whether it's winter or summer fall spring whether it's fake flowers or real flowers I do all of those it's great plan to practice Steven work with dried flowers because they used to look awful and now they look great they actually look real go to Hobby Lobby some time and walk down the aisles It's just amazing what they're doing with ours now restaurants I've sold the restaurants I've done festivals. I had a runner from Telluride used to pick up my children in my case when they were really young we make about thirty or forty bouquets and resell them to market there and we made really good money I was really surprised and it was great for my daughters because I have three daughters in the sun even my son kind of got into it he would go out and cut and stuff first but so we've done just about everything even edible flowers believe it or not there's a big market for edible flowers. In the health food store lines so and I also have lately the last two years just to be my third season to do bedding plants I've gone that extreme now where I'm doing some bedding plants I'm not huge but I'm probably doing five hundred to seven hundred bedding plants now for a local little nursery that actually hired me wanted me to be a part of their team between April and. June right in town in my little town they wanted an organic line so I bring them organic tomatoes in and everything all vegetables and some annuals that they can't get because a lot of the and I grow nurseries don't carry they're just really unusual cut flowers which you'll see they're really pretty but and so I have I'm doing that now and I'm actually doing the farm sales now that people know that I am so many plants and I have already have two women that are going to buy probably close to two hundred dollars apiece I'm betting plants just because they want to do their garden they want it they want it organic they want them they want to and usual they want some perennials I have a disco down the list and they just say I want this this that that So that's sort of been doing and it's kind of fun too because then I know what I need to grow and need on my on my perennial which I'm going to go through I actually go out there I mean. Because our weather's been really warm in Colorado unseasonably warm I'm going to go start. Going to go dig and then take a piece of that and put it start put it in a pot and put it in my greenhouse and by June they'll be beautiful they'll be flowering because that's what I can do in my greenhouse so most of my marketing has been done by exposure and just you know telling people what I'm doing and. I actually did a local farmer's market with my kids in the little town that we have and the nearby town and then an hour and forty five minutes away so I've done lots of markets I did this last market for seventeen years so people really knew me that it was flowers and veggies that I did but now you can do computer you can do web site you get your website together a local news feed like I said we have one in our little town to let you know what people are doing. I haven't even done it I haven't had to do it so I'm not getting it because I'm a one man show pretty much my husband does all the infrastructure and stuff but now I have I've lost all my kids I tried and in turn last year it was a male and it didn't work and so I'm kind of on my own I have a couple women my oldest daughter who's a nurse comes in helps me once a week and another woman that just wants a learn and I have another woman issue that just wants to learn so I kind of have to do everything so I'm kind of I'm actually scaling back a little now I'm getting the pressure I love what I do but as you get older the pressure wears on you I think. But it you know I want more time and more there's more that but I love a love it. Instagram is a great way to sell your flowers there's a whole form. That you really should get in touch with if you're really serious about this after you develop what your doing. I actually the last three seasons to this afternoon your pet understand. How where I began and where you've come from and what I'm doing now but right now I'm doing this year's day of twenty families which is about one hundred people I service with food fruits and vegetables and flowers but not so much flowers and you know I was praying to the Lord I said Lord I got all these flowers and she is a members don't really take too many flower bouquets and so it's interesting there was another grower in my valley have great women growers in my valley it's like amazing what's happening in our little valley she asked me because she didn't have enough for any of those three years ago she secured Do you have any printer because we get started in about May or may still or early for us and I did I have lots and the largest came through on the last three years for me because I I hate wasting all those flowers and you've got to deadhead you've got to cut if you want more so I sell probably three to six buckets a week and I get about sixty dollars a bucket for those and I don't have to go anywhere and she takes him and then she sends him over to Chris to be you. And I do I already have two weddings booked this year I usually have two to four to six weddings every year so I'm really busy that that's a lot for a first summer it's really busy in between the other things that I'm doing so it gets you know a wedding takes all day just to cut the flowers and if I have the bug you know whatever I have to do so. So I really want you to know who my clients are you have to know who you're selling to you have to know trends and fortunately you really do like the last couple years have been very light pastel flowers very light like flesh colored light. Do just a big rave on very light light pastels and so I kind of have to keep track of what's going on or at least grow a wider variety of kinds of flowers so that you can cover your bases because I actually like contrast I like darks and lights and so. The women I deal with are really ideally they they're very they're very dark but they like dark flowers and dark thing. But so you just have to know trends and know kind of what's going on and you can always talk to your florist there are a minute mention there at I don't know if you want to take some of these down there at S A I P U A Amy Americ. I can hardly read I wish it's more like it. At something flowers Kate at wild flowers Suzanne at the Blue Care these are all really top notch floral designers and OK. Sarah at S A I P U A Annie at Amy Merrick. There's Florette flowers too there's she's really big. M E R I C K Kate at wildflower Suzanne at the Blue Care So really get you know you can really see what the trend is by going to those These women are really expert I mean they're just beautiful arrangers. So one of the things you need to do is listen to your customers and when I I love doing weddings most of the people that I know grow for flowers. Are. I like doing weddings because I really like take care of these young women I really love it I just think that you know you hope this is the one and only marriage they're going to have and this is really special to them and so you really listen to what they want and so really a tune yourself to what your customers want you can make suggestions but and you get to tell what you have your product but you know you really need to listen to your customers because you know budget is always a concern color scheme is another and style I've had to do styles I hate basically I don't like it but that is what they want so I tweak it a little input my little signature on it but you know I do it they want. You have to know your flowers really well so start you know go go through catalogs and I mean this we have so much you know you can access to access just about anything so you have to know your flowers and knows as well as perennials as you'll find out soon you have to have a little bit of a portfolio you're going to see awful pictures on here and you can see some great pictures because I'm learning too with my i Phone I'll just be out I am so busy but I'll go out and I'll go the light is perfect you just get used to that usually now's the time so click take a few you'll see buckets you'll see bouquets and buckets I never knew dream very be standing up here but I knew I wanted something for kind of my portfolio or what I was doing and so. Make sure you have some good pictures and learn to take some good pictures. Even if it's one flower I mean just try and start practicing that. And continually keep taking them if you see the right lighting in the right you know just make sure you take some You're the artistic ability which I went through yesterday and kind of you kind of got to see some of that you got to practice on that because that's who it's going to be your signature. You're I totally book a totally different now than I used to totally different because I realize what people. Kind of what they want they want to see all the flowers is basically what I was talking about yesterday so work on your to stick ability. Work in different color combinations that you're not used to try to try to you know put pink through the red and purples with blues and purples with yellows and just really try to mix it up and it will become more more more fun to do to view not thinking always in such a box you know. So and grow different colored flowers that you may not grow so Foreman salmon tree which you all probably know. I still want to talk a little bit about marketing yourself how much your demeanor how you are towards people is so important when you're marketing what you're doing I've seen so much failure in this aspect when I went to market because people were cold and friendly so and not accommodating whatsoever and those are the worst things you could have the most gorgeous fires and people walk away from you because you just don't. You know are more intimate and friendly you got to be really friendly and accommodating generous but you know don't don't sweat the small stuff you know if someone wants you know what I always get these young women can you give me a deal yeah I can give you do you know so I take five dollars off I mean what do you know it's like you know it's like do i wanna help them make a beautiful wedding or in my county every penny that you know comes across what I'm doing so really joy to be helpful and if you're not if you're not a people person I would not recommend this to you or learn to become because it's really important and in fact I know I sold all my products at the market because I really love people I really want to see I'm healthy I want to see I'm happy I want to see and take something beautiful and enjoy my food and and I think that came across I think you really practice getting friendly you know was that I was a friend shows himself friend me I mean it says volumes. I think also because we were a family run operation that spoke volumes to people so if you've got kids or you working in teams people really love that they just do something about that they really really care about. I just want to caution you to take time for yourself that's something I didn't do in my early years I was raising four children I was working the farm I was basically a workaholic and I found my identity I'm working a lot and I just love the Lord because He transformed that in me to become more people orientated and more. Children friendly and thinking about their needs and more nurturing which I did not grow up with I mean I realize why I was that way but I just you know the Lord is really transform you know a lot of really great ways. And we're really busy but nurture yourself you know you can't give what you don't have so you've got to be filled think about this you're a complete and him you're a complete and him who's a talking about Jesus. Enter into his pool in this. We have all received you know the field I didn't take time to be filled take time if you mean if it's just a very small time to really give your heart to a lord before you go out there because he will do he will do things that are just amazing that we cannot do you know because of his spirit you know which we hope to receive so some of my perennials are and I don't know if you're going to know what these are but. These are perennials and print heels are plants that actually stay in the ground all year every year you trim back you cut them for flowers and they just grow bigger and they're there they're in the right don't because they're established in living so some of the ones I have received lavender which is a type of status in the morning in blue. I have butterfly we which I finally have successfully grown in Colorado if you knew our we have a very hard clay soils and we're constantly put in human and trying to break it up basically and it's a just to hold water not in the in the sunshine and we just got so much going on but I've finally three different types of an orange red and then a gold and that's actually in the greenhouse and outside it's slowly getting bigger I have some annual asters. To TAR's So Violet Blue comes on later in the season I have. I have Armenian basket flower it's a yellow I have Columbines which are really huge Now I don't know if you know that's Colorado state flower and I don't know if you can grow that everywhere but we can grow and they have really giant ones now that are great for cutting and I'm going back to replanting those I actually pull them all out but now they're really big so I'm seeding some out today this year and the party will be and those thing about perennials is they take about three years to really look nice and be big. To cut so you've got to if you're going to start this you should really start collecting perennials go to little ladies in the church who have the flower beds and ask Can I have a piece of the can I would piece of that just look at him and there's lots of people that love to share that kind of well to be surprised and so you don't have to buy everything I would ask people can i would you mind I was driving by one day and I really wanted white phlox I don't know if you know about flocks perennial phlox they're big huge heads are gorgeous they smell heavenly and someone have this white fox and I go can I come back and get some of this from you yes yes yes and I will bring you some tomato plants I brought him sent to me the plants and he gave me some some flocks plants white because I have about four colors but so you know you never know people love people people really like that. Sharing because you appreciate in people who love it so don't be so bashful going to add get out there bachelor buttons I have the big center center they're the real big ones and they actually over winter for me in the blue and little flowers detail they're a pain to snip and cut but even if you have a small bunch of them I use them as detail just details really important coreopsis there are some really great bigger varieties coming out now so check them out command is of all things I have this twelve shaking her head. Twelve it only gets to twelve feet but is a most beautiful purple flower and it will be actually one of those big purple flower I'm trying to think of the name. It's called blue light and it is gorgeous and I use it in bouquets but it's early so I'm always hoping someone has a wedding then so I can use it it's just I mean it's so beautiful and has several layers is just great Cupid's dart. Cornflower which is a bachelor button bells a virally because I have actually a maroon and then I have a blue. Blues hard color to get I actually it's a very hard but I love using blue is just so beautiful bells a virally which is actually an annual for me but they reseed Bellflower Campanella blue white balloon flower I love it's not rule there's not a lot of them but I really love a blue lace flower pink in and blue do Callaloo is inside the green out there on the edge of my beds and they actually over winter for me so I don't have the pool and I don't and I have maroon and white of those and I'm telling you you're going to there's a huge list here but I just have small beds of them don't think real large Don't you know six eight ten plants only you don't you just I want a variety and I want I want something blooming all the time in the perennial So this is the way I do that I there's actually chrysanthemums for our area zone six Robinson red I just painted daisies and then Shasta daisies. That painted daisies a new one for me but they're real pretty they're real tall they have a long stem and they're red which is hard to get in early production Dusty Miller is root works really well and I love Dusty Miller. It's not very long but you can actually put a spike on it when you're using when you're doing book A So you can do a lot of things with that because Midian carnations Diane this the large recent giant are wonderful they're there this one right here and they come in a. Cherry blue or Cherry Cherry rared and it's a big headlines are like huge heads. Diane this recession giant. Sweet William but you're not going to see him is that you're going to see him as Diane this OK. Then I have regular carnations which I've learned to love you know there in flower shops I never really liked those things but I'm now growing so I really like i'm white in yellow you know kind of the off colors delphiniums of all kinds make sure you have a nice bed and that I actually have a lot of really pretty blue ones purple ones and a light plum color that's really nice and I'm trying to propagate more that Fox which you saw Kirsten she had a whole photo her husband had up there those are really great they're biannual means only only last two years so if they replant. It can a show of all kinds and there's some new varieties out there orange ones in yellow ones in spirit. Marcella those are and then just the regular a can a people love it can a show they love it. Golden Margarete hydrangea I can only grow one kind of hydrangea in my air but I just try to second one and it's a white and a bill looks pretty much like that and they're a little smaller head on it tighter but I finally have successfully started I know everybody oh you can't mean everything grows everywhere even up north I was surprised but it's because you are so dry that they don't do well there were really arid and so it doesn't like it so I have it in the shade I have a kind of protected golden rod his I love using smells really nice and it's really as I don't know if you know a gash but it's really a fun flower because it's very interesting looking it has two colors and it's small and it's for detail work. Grasses oats straw looks just like a nice heated head you might see it in the I actually grow hellebores now that in the south they're like weeds but where I'm from They're hard to do so I have hellebores you can see I think catch some buton years I did with those. Glora. I don't care for him but people love them and so I'm started do some reds and different other colors forget me nots which received a really tall their blue which is coming back lavenders Larkspur feverfew of all kinds by actress Menard is there starting to have light pink minority I don't know if you know what I'm trying to think of the botanical me. Or the common name but now I'm starting to learn Latin so much because that's all you view. Hops oregano in my dried arrangements and my tables in the auditorium you're going to see him and they're gorgeous they just add a lot of detail for dried and regular they're real small but they were good hélène. The irises people love viruses especially the big ones Lamb's Ear In The MIT Nigella which received serious early print you know for me but it receives blue purples from whites and again it's the blues that I want ly lacks Shasta daisies peonies of all kinds I love peonies in fact all my dried arrangements over there have penises in them they dried beautifully so that's another thing when I do weddings I'm like do you want me to OK this and turn it upside and dried dry it for you and they're like yes that would be great it's kind of hard sometimes coordinating that when I'm not at the wedding but they love that so that's what I do for him too and I actually have a Bush peony which is a huge It gets very large as is my fourth year on two of them survive so I'm really excited they have a head like that like they're just beautiful absolutely beautiful get peonies I don't know can you grow peonies Does anybody Yes I'm seeing some you know Yes yes I mean they're just people go nuts over him I tried to get some for this and I just missed it by a day and they went from three seventy five to nine dollars apiece because it's out of season so they're really think about marketing those in a different way. Yeah all pretty as a take about three years to get big Yarrow of all kinds especially the past still shade you guys like I'm not talking about that really kind of gnarly yellow one that you always see these are real light real light oranges real light pinks real light yellows they're just really great filler and I get to cuttings off of those if I cut it early enough I get another second set of Yarrow for my Which is nice for my. Production and in the later summer pens demands of all kinds I don't think that available here but in Colorado they're really big they are look they're kind of a native species roses flogs I'm not too big on roses but I do unusual colors like flash and light light light pink and real light plum color just unusual but I'm not crazy about roses I mean they're just so common flocks purple pink white impeach these are the principles now they're real big they're about this high and Salvias of all kinds that are only large I only do stow keys is a really beautiful flower and it comes in white bluish color and a pink and it's a real frilly filer and you just have to it's actually what a bookcase if I can catch it I'll tell you. For being a bone heiress which is really an annual for us but over winters I don't know why it over winter is for me but there are tall spindly kind of purple I'm always trying to get purple probably has a hard color in the middle of summer and people always want purple It seems like and weddings and cut flowers for Bascom's I love them they're going to put some in my greenhouse because they do they just they're not as pretty out Simon to try and I love him. Which is that spiky things so flower in there which I really like just for change up in their bluish Veronicas see them they do all kinds of see them because for both for Button ears and everything so I just wanted a few things how to care for perennials OK. Again they're seasonal flowers and they're going to start mine start from April and go into maybe June ish and then I get a second some and then they're done so you've got to grow Anos with your premium so that you have flowers. Every third year I go through my beds and I cut out all the first group first years growth you really need to do this if you want to keep your perennials really nice and strong and healthy so you cut out all the old and then that just brings it just gives vigor to the plant any time you prune or you dig out or you can just think how much energy for that plant if it's three years it's this big that you cut off some then energy it will make that you always want new energy in your printer so make sure you dig it out and you kind of can I can remember what was old where was I don't know just gets in your brain. And you want to split. In a. Minute take fresh start I take pieces of the printer and I repotted for my markets for my resells So I take a little piece of it you can actually take a piece of it put it in a pot put it in your greenhouse and then it becomes a full plant you can actually do that with perennials and just make sure you get some of the root somewhere on the plant. I put different prey kneels the same printer in a different location in my garden because sometimes it does better and I'm nose or I keep it cooler and it comes on a week later so I get an extra week out of that saying if I really like something I move I so I have several sections where I have it's really pretty Now I love my God Is that going outside it's everywhere around my house I used to have linear rows and now they just kind of everywhere around my house which is really pretty I really really like that so if I ever quit it's just all there in the can pretty I don't have to yet so that extend your cutting time if you move some of those around. So if you're and if you're not you don't have no one's buying your flowers this time year you've got to cut them you still have to cut print off you want to deadhead or cut him down so that you get more bloom. OK annulus these are some of the annual Xy grow our year a dim plum colors I love those colors white blue Aster Tower series Amerinds of all kinds just to see because they're huge and beautiful I just did a wedding with green in maroon and she just went crazy she loved it so bells of iron Ireland wind everlastings are wonderful flowers if you don't know if you know what those in there AM It's a M M O B I U M What a great filler flower it's white it's like a little Daisy on the top of this tall Stam and you can dry it and you can use it for detail again putting in between the big flowers the small little flowers which need for for. A M M O B I U M And it's called Wings and everlasting really is the common name Callender was of all kinds. Cosmos of all kinds and one I when it's particularly bring your tend to do is called Zinder pop pop and Poppy Poppy socks these are new kinds of Cosmos that are coming out that are gorgeous they're a little shorter to get a really cut along and try to really get down there but there are beautiful beautiful Tiffany are Mexican some flour do the gold and the orange it's really a true orange I really love it dahlias of all kinds I have every color you can think of and I would suggest the ball series I know I need to get some. Ball series or the pompoms are the easiest to grow they hold the last the longest I can't guarantee but two to three days and I do weddings on so I kind of at the very last minute I even go in there and cut just right before I send them off sometimes because they they're really. Not long lasting you know so but the pompoms last longest and there are tighter head they're a tighter head in a smaller head but I have every color you can think of an especially purple maroon but I have oranges I have read I have yellows I have white flesh colors I have light pinks. Feverfew of all kinds any kind you can get your hands on grow they actually received really well Clay on me which most people don't grow it's a Spider Spider flower it's kind of different in your piece and why it's coming back it's an old Victorian flower I see a lady she can her head back there status of all colors but especially because you can draw I am I love growing flowers I really love it so and you can use those in there to the areas because they love them they just really like them so. Strong flowers Nick Oceana of all kinds taller varieties green slime greens Red I have this really beautiful red Bella baby. It's like a tube to go to a blue flower on a stand with lots of little two of flowers it's really quite beautiful. It's really the tobacco plant. When you dry your flowers us. Yet when you draw your flowers I just am yes I do I really busy so I going out there and if I see a fresh and it's perfect I'll go and cut it and go hang it on you know there's loads rack that have like for sixty years I've used it for multiple person that's one of them the purpose of just stringing them up and then just hanging them from there with I have these hooks and I just hook them on rubber band them and who come on you know you just make sure they have and we have a stairs to room in our garage where I can drive tons as many as I want. OK so unusual think about Barry OK and yes Or even even blackberries in raspberries printing in bouquets it's gorgeous believe it or not broom corn bamboo bamboo even grows by Lamb's Ear Dusty Miller succulents hops oregano any kind of grasses especially red grasses are really great Pods greenery I've even used they're coming out with tall bays that's really nice and I use Dill a lot you've got to get it cut it really early so they don't wilt we have a lot of wild asparagus fern. Command just like I said so do small flowers through detail on different material like Nigella even dries into these pods and if you know love in the midst Nigella it grows into these pods OK seed leans in plugs I'm just going to mention just a few things I do Lizzie and this I didn't mention that I must of I might have missed a paper but I do Lizzie's. They start their one hundred twenty days now you can get plugs too on certain plants if you have to you. But I don't like to spend the money and you now because you know at the tray is two hundred seventy eight Usually I would recommend using heating met the energy seeds yourself don't just get a good He-Man you'll be really glad you did and it just keeps an even temperature. There's other things. I missed skip because they were really run in a time my husband said so so the varieties and quality quantities you want lots of filler flowers you need striking Wow flowers you know they're really beautiful you need lots of different colors for all the whole season. You can even do successive planting which means you can plant more than one time if you have a long season something that's easy to grow has a long shelf space life which I told you a lot about is dependable and a long long blooming time stem length think about check your varieties because not all Salvias some Salvias are this high six inches so make sure when you go to look at your seeds go google it and really get the real specs on it because I've done a lot of seed work because I didn't check into that don't take their word for it this media was brought to you by audiotapes a website dedicated to spreading God's word through free sermon audio and much more if you would like to know more about the universe or if you would like to listen to more sermons believe this is W.W.. Or.

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