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Why I Left the Anti-Trinitarian Movement

Joel Ridgeway
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What would cause a staunch Anti-trinitarian to change his view on the Godhead? Discover light on this most confusing topic from the journey of one who has ‘been there and done it’. The author was raised a Seventh-day Adventist, and in his early teens accepted the Anti-trinitarian view of God. But years later he experienced some unease with these teachings, and chose to search out more thoroughly the Truth for himself. The result: he is now a confirmed believer in the Eternal Heavenly Trio, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

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  • March 17, 2018
    11:30 AM
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Father God won't we just pray that you'll be with us now as we insist explore this this deep deep topic of the going in and Lord I feel very in insufficient at this moment to share this there in you know how can we as it's created beings think to understand you I just pray that you will. You will stand here and speak and then it will be not my words but your winds I mean us this morning in the mighty name of Jesus and men so I don't claim to have to be any kind of authority on the Godhead I'm just a fellow traveler with you but I have had the unique experience of being in by sides of the can't I just pray that as I share with you these things with you I just share with you my experience my journey that you will learn something from my experience and not make the same mistakes that I might This is why I write my book here it is Talk of the press 1st edition. It has been over 10 years in the making but why write another book on the go and hit I believe this book is unique to I especially its my personal journey it documents the evidence that the Lord showed me as I sought to understand the truth about 1 and so it's really my testimony you can cite And secondly it's written by someone who's who has been an enchanted Tarion and therefore. I can see things from their perspective if you know what I mean often when I read books about the Godhead sometimes their arguments didn't make sense to me because they're coming from different angles now I have a confession to make the title is understanding the Godhead the more I study about the Godhead the less I feel like I understand God if you know what I mean the more you know the more you realize how much you don't know. But this picture that you see here of light coming into a Kenyan really sums up my experience because figure to be speaking why we're here on this earth we're all down in the canyon not until we are translated We will be able to bask in the under. The glory of God So then there are many things we must accept by faith this book has been reviewed by Pastor Ethel Tolhurst who was the former under secretary of the General Conference who has since passed away his insight was greatly appreciated and he's also written the forward for this book which I'm very grateful so let me now take you back on a bit of a journey just to show you my background where I came from I was raised by God fearing some attendants parents in fact I'm 3rd generation and I want to pause here to acknowledge the amazing job that my parents did in raising me it wasn't for their hard work I wouldn't I would not be standing here for you today again showing where I was rich Rice believing the traditional understanding traditional view of the Godhead which the church holds today 3 eternal persons so existant in 1 going Father Son and Holy Spirit but in the early days I never really studied these things myself I just accepted it because my church taught it as what my parents taught me and I just played then in my teens my family were introduced to this non Trinitarian view of God in this teaching God the Father was the supreme gone so if existant eternal The son was also a God but he was a lesser god in some way he was literally be gotten brought into existence by the father. Fall back in the ages of eternity any inherited all the titles of deity from His Father the Holy Spirit was not a person like the father in the son but he was but the Holy Spirit was the spirit mind and power of the Father in the Son I resisted the idea at 1st it just didn't seem right to me but I studied it I studied it and listening to the lots of videos D.V.D.'s starting with friends it didn't happen overnight it was a long process mentioning that my whole family changed view to the N.T. Trinitarian view of God I became a staunch any Trinitarian and I used to love to debate with people is to get on Internet forums and share my ideas and many people couldn't answer my arguments I thought I was closer to God because the N.T. Trinitarian concept of God seemed to help me to understand God more it appealed to my emotions more. The literal father son. Relationship was more realistic to my human understanding and I thought it seemed to help me understand the greatness of God sacrifice but it didn't last after the novelty of this whole idea and this new belief wore off I found myself no different spiritually than I was before in fact it developed a critical spirit in me of the church and of others and I actually ended up dragging me down spiritually and then there was I was nagging problems in the back of my mind problems like clear Bible and spirit prophecy statements that just didn't fit. Even we had to explain them away as less clear and start with with less clear statements or we had to we had decided the Quite said been tampered with and then there was that statement in what says that the nature of the Holy Spirit is a mystery. And he were trying to explain it. And then this it was claimed that this teaching brought people closer to God In fact this is 1 of the main arguments that it brings forth today that you can you can relate to him better when you believe this doctrine that will say that believing in a 3 person gone head means that you believe in a make up gospel an artificial gospel and I would say that if you accept their teaching the teaching of what's called the 1 True God movement is what they're calling it now that it will take your relationship with God to the next level this is what they teach and this is what I believe that it would do it for me but I did not see any proof of this in the lives of the people that held this doctrine true I saw many people that were godly and and sincere in their belief but I saw many people who were very dogmatic on Christ like in their behavior and then I looked at the youth of the people that believe this doctrine and many of them are just as worldly as a more liberal counterparts in my own life I 1st thought I was closer to God but as I said it was short lived and I met many many sincere upright godly people who believed in a 3 person got him much more in fact than were in the 1 true god belief so all these problems all these these problems combined with some providential circumstances that brought me in close connection in association with some godly people who believed in the 3 eternal Persons of the content and the ideas they shared with me really challenged my view on God and sent me back to the drawing board to study this topic myself now there is a rumor going around and that is that I was desperate to get married and I wanted to marry and the person I want to marry was a Trinitarian and so I changed my belief. To accommodate her now want to set the record straight that that is not true my wife to be had nothing to do with me changing my belief in fact I changed my belief before I fell in love with Hana by the white tennis birthday today so happy birthday day. In fact it was 1 of my Bible teaches that the school I was attending at high would that really impacted me the most it was not for his wisdom and encouragement and insight I definitely wouldn't even started on this journey the night that I started some going to share with you some trees that the Lord taught me. In my faith in my search for truth during this talk I'm going to be quoting a lot from the writings of Ellen White and I believe Elmore is inspired of God and I believe that in these last days the Lord gave the church the gift of prophecy because of all the winds of doctrine that were blowing we would need the extra guidance however the Bible will be the basis of our discussion today to tighten your seat belts as we go in 3 I journeyed back in time far beyond time in fact to a point that we don't know back in time to the question Who is God But 1st we need to realize the grand that we're about to tread is holy ground and I studied this topic I came face to face with my own inability to understand gone how can we the creation think we can understand God the Creator in fact Charles Wesley once said you show me when I understand man and I will show you a man understands God I think he was pretty right don't you but this was a tough pill for me to swallow in the early nineties because the I would all my questions answered. Don't we all we want our questions Anson but had to come to the realisation that some things are simply not revealed. Some things we have to accept by faith we win and most of all we need God to guide us in this matter this is the statement he gave us is the 1 the most humbling lesson that man has to learn is the nothingness of human wisdom and the folly of trying by his own and aided efforts to find out God he may exert his intellectual powers to the uttermost he may have what the world calls as a period education yet he still may be ignorant in God's eyes so without the aid of the Holy Spirit all our efforts in this regard I'm going to be nothingness if you only remember 1 thing from this talk today I want you to remember this don't ever think that all your questions about God are going to be answered the very fact that there are unanswered questions about God proves that God is God and that we are human and fact this I believe is 1 of the major flaws in the 1 true god movement that trying to explain things about God that is simply not revealed here are some examples why is Jesus called the son of gone we were given we are given a few clues which we will look at later on but the 1 true god movement tries to explain this by saying that Jesus was literally born of God in eternity past but God has not given us any clear light regarding Jesus' Son ship in eternity past we are told that he is the eternal Son and we do accept this by faith Secondly How can Jesus be God and yet die we're told that Jesus laid down his life how it is possible we're not told any Trinitarians will try and say that Jesus is not eternal God and therefore the father could just take his life away from him and in the same way that he gave it to him in the beginning. But once again we have nightly Biblical evidence that tells us this and we'll talk about this more Lighton and then there is what is the nature of the Holy Spirit once again we'll talk about this later but the 1 true God made that tells us that the Holy Spirit is the mind of Christ but we're told the nature of the Holy Spirit is a mystery so isn't that trying to define the nature of the Holy Spirit by saying is the mind of Christ and then we have God's eternal existence now this boggles and once we can understand God how can God be eternal in both directions this me must accept by faith you see God has not revealed to us every think there is to know about Him God only reveals that which is important for us in the plan of redemption in fact and might tells us that the central theme of the Bible the theme about which every other in the whole book clusters is a redemption plan the restoration of the human soul in the image of God He grasps this thought has before him an infinite field of study he has the key that will unlock to him the whole treasure house of God's word. And this is another very important principle that we need to understand when we study the Godhead and that is that God only reveals that which is important for our salvation all the names of God in the Bible a given to us to reveal something about the plan of redemption that is the focus so in my quest to understand God there were 3 key questions that I had to set straight in my mind 1st 1 was is Christ eternal God like the father Secondly is the Holy Spirit an individual person in his own right and thirdly is the Godhead part of the pillars of our faith which the Lord led the church or established in the beginning I'm going to try and cover the 1st 2 points in this session. If we could and said these 3 questions definitively we could put this going to debate to rest. So let's look at the 1st 1 is Christ eternal God like the father studying through the Bible from Genesis to Revelation I found Jesus very clearly portrayed as gone even as an N.T. Trinitarian I fully believe that Jesus was gone so the key question is not is Jesus gone this is a such a question that back sides agree on the question is What does it mean to be gone what does the title of God mean this is what I need sense I needed to answer and in my study I discovered 2 key attributes that separate gone from all other beings in the universe and they are number 1 that he is creator and sustainer of all life God made everything a sustains everything moment by moment and secondly that he is eternal existence in other words he had no beginning God exists independent of time space and matter he has always existed so let's start by looking at what God has to say about his creative power when we open the Bible the very 1st thing that God wants us to know about himself is the fact that he is our creator in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth it is a fact that the Bible writers understood that creation creating the world was a key attribute of gone in fact when the bobber ideas were seeking to establish the divinity of Christ this was often the 1st place they went to and here a couple of examples John 11 and 3 in the beginning was the Word and the Word was WITH God and the word was gone all things were made by him and without Him was not any think made that was made and. Collections 116 and 18 by Him Christ were all things created that were in heaven that reign earth visible and invisible when they be thrown or dominions or principalities or pounds all things were created by him and for him that in all things he might have the preeminence So Christ is our creator and if Christ created all things isn't it fair to say that he would sustain us moment by moment if his power brought us into existence could not his power sustain us let's prove this from inspiration collections 117 he Christ was before all things and by him do all things consist and John 155 I'm the vine you the branches he that abideth in me and I in him the same bring it forth much fruit for the out me you can do nothing listen this better prophecy all created beings and live by the will and power of gun they are recipients on the life of the son of gun how able and talented however large their capacities they are replenished from with life from the source of all life he is the spring the fountain of life only he who align has immortality dwelling in light and life can say I have pound to lay down my life and power to take it again this quiet tells us 2 things number 1 Jesus is the source of all life and secondly Jesus had the power to lay down his life and the power to take it again why emphasizing this 1 of the fundamental teachings of the 1 True God movement is that is summed up in its title 1 true God implying that Jesus is not the 1 true God that he is in some way a lesser god in the Father. And here is the main difference they believe that Christ derived his life at some point from the father therefore the only truly self existant 1 is the father but just shiny 3 inspired statements that clearly show that Jesus is the source of all life and there's more in fact 1 of my favorites is desirable ages page 530 now this was a groundbreaking statement from panis when it 1st came out in fact when M.L. injurious and read this statement he didn't believe it right so he went to its own cons and looked it up and he found that she had indeed read it written it and here it is Jesus declared I am not that would I am the resurrection and the life in Christ is life original unbarred underarms he that hath the sun have life the divinity of Christ is a believe is assurance of eternal life now think about that last sentence the divinity of Christ is the believers assurance return to life now if we lessen the divinity of Christ in any way if we say that he is a lesser god than the father the what are we doing when jeopardizing our own eternal life this quite tells us 2 very important things about God Number 1 that he is the I am and we're going to talk about the I am as we go along I thought when I was. Tearing that I believe that Jesus was God in every every sense of the word but when you start crunching the numbers you realize that it actually doesn't add up here's why this statement clearly links Jesus divinity with his eternal existence can you see that Ellen why is using 3 she is in this statement 3 words or meaning very similar things which describe the life of Christ now what is original mean. Original means and by the way these quotes these definitions come from Webster's 828 dictionary which is a good dictionary to years when you're studying them what because it's written in her era so. English language changes over the years but this is close to her era this is in her era original means the fountain the source the cause that which anything primarily precedes and on borrowed is not bar and genuine original native ones on and under arrived means not derived not received from any foreign source L M Y is placing triple emphasis on the fact that Jesus' life did not come from someone else in other words he is the source of all life he is God in every sense of the word Now if Jesus real life really did come from the father why on earth would God write something like that which is to confuse us this statement shows us that in order for Christ to be fully divine he needs to be eternal Otherwise you might as well class Christ with all the other angels and other created beings as any true Terry and I'd read this statement many many times and we tried to explain it away by reading this statement here in Him was life original and borrowed under our lives this life is not inherent in man he can possess it only through Christ he cannot earn it it is given to him as a free gift if we will believe in Christ as his personal savior so I say seat Christ we can receive it original unbarred on Dr life too so if Christ can receive it why can't we so if we can receive it why can't Christ but hang on is it really a regional unbar and under of life and we have it does this make any sense let's dig into this quite a bit more and see if we can fund Let me read to you the rest of the quote. In Him was life. And the life was the light of men this is not physical life as he specified but immortality the life which is the school is simply the property of God The Word which was with God and who was God had this life physical life is something here which each individual receives is not eternal nor immortal foregone the life give it takes it back again man has no control over his life but the life of Christ was what unbar and no man can take his life from him I let down of myself he said In Him was life original unbarred under rived this life is not inherent in man he can possess it only 3 Christ he cannot earn it it is given to him as a free gift if you will believe in Christ as his personal savior so in what is actually contrast L. life which is not original borrowed from Christ with Christ life who is original and barred under rived take a look at this Christ has immortality and I've come a cut of the quite down he so you can see where we're talking about Christ immersed talking about us Christ his immortality man does not have immortality the life of Christ was unbar and meant can possess this life only through Christ in other words it's borrowed no 1 can take his life from him and at death gone the lack of it takes our life back again in Christ is life original unbarred under arrives and this life is not inherent in men it was inherent in Christ wasn't it L. life is conditional God's cross life was unconditional Can you see that nowhere in the quote does it tell us the life of Christ was borrowed in fact it says it's under it this so-called proof text actually proves the opposite but don't take my word for it let the prophets speak. From Jesus is our life derived in him is life that is original and borrowed and derives in him is the fountain of life in us is the stream that from the fountain L. life is something we receive something they give it takes back to himself again so they have a plain and simple ally for equals derived Christ life equals under art when I read this quote It really made me stop and think as I'm studying this because 1 of the main problems that I see as I look I have a bite size of this debate is that the N.T. Trinitarians have to cherry pick Spirit of Prophecy picking out the ones that suit their agenda and then they use those less clear statements to explain the really clear ones but this is not good Scott scholarship is that we need to be out to find how many throughout inspiration there is much more evidence I could share with you but we must move on for the sake of time but the key thought here is that for Christ to be our Creator and sustainer he must be eternal his life original unbar and underarms He is eternal gone and so if I would look at 1 aspect of God's creative power and there's a lot more that we go into. We don't have time to talk about Christ power of a death but I show clearly in my book that Christ had the power to lay down his life and to take it again this is just 1 more clear evidence that Jesus is God in every sense of the word how God can laze life down and take it again we can understand but that's not for us to worry about let's now talk about another aspect of God and that is his eternal existence the Bible tells us before the mountains were brought forth or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world even from everlasting to everlasting that now gone. God is eternal This is perhaps the most basic fundamental principle that separates gone from every other created being we cannot understand it we must accept my faith there was never a time when God was not in fact the Hebrew word for Jehovah comes from the root word Ha yeah which simply means to exist so the most fundamental attribute that separates gone from every other being is the fact that he exists to deny the tell existence of God is to deny that he is gone no 1 disputes that this applies to God the Father the question is does this apply to Christ the 1 true god movement says no because I believe that Christ derived his life at some point from the father so what does a Bommel say about Christ's existence I need to clear this up so I spent a lot of time studying the divinity of Christ I'm going to share with you a few highlights if you want more you have to read the book let's start by looking at this word hi ya and see how it applies to Christ when to start with Exodus chapter 3 verse 14 when God appeared to my sis in the burning bush and told Moses to go only to Israel Moses asked God What is your name so that I can tell Israel what is your name and what God said God said to my sis I am that I am and he said that they are saying to the children of Israel I am have sent the UN to you now this is where I am is a very very important word it became 1 of the key named of God for Israel in fact the Hebrew word the word I am is how young that's that's what the word translated in English I am is high on which is the root word for Jehovah this word appears 3 times in this verse and an alternative rendering for I am that I am is I myself am. I exist that is the substance of who I am now the question is Who was it the spoke to Moses at the burning bush was it the Father the Son of the Holy Spirit Well let's see it from prophecy in the burning bush which who Christ appeared to Moses revealed god the symbol chosen for the representation of the deity was a lowly shrub that seemingly had no attractions this in shrine the infinite the all merciful God shredded his glory in a mice humble type that most is could look upon it and live so Christ was to come in the body of our humiliation in the likeness of men in the eyes of the world he possessed no beauty that could design him yet he was what the incarnate dawned the light of heaven on earth his glory was violent his greatness and majesty were hidden that he might draw near to sorrowful tempted men so this burning bush represented Christ this humble Bush in shrine the great I am and that I am with Christ he is no less a god than the father and this statement clearly shows this so the key I want to remember here is that I am represents eternal existence this is the whole Mark of God This is the original unbar it under Rob the life of Christ come with me to the New Testament and here a 1000 or so years later when Christ was incarnate he had a very interesting exchange with the Jewish leaders which in which Christ really confirms this truth we've just read the Jews were comparing Christ to Abraham and I said that they are greater than our father Abraham noticed in his response your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day he saw it and was glad. Then the jury said on him that 50 years old has now seen over him and Jesus said unto them Verily verily Truly truly I sound to you before Abraham was I am and then I took up stones to cast at him now tell me why did they pick up stones to cast at him at that moment. He was said he was God that's right he did a lot of things that really irritated them before then they could have started signs that him many times but that point when he used that word I am nice here is knew what he was talking about they knew that I am is the eternal God Now notice this coming on this verse in what sense silence fell upon the vast assembly the name of God given to Moses to what express the idea of eternal presence had been claimed as his own by this Galilean rabbi he had announced himself to be the self existant 1 he whose had been promised Israel his going for has been from old from the days of eternity can inspiration sight any clear Jesus stood before those Jews and he said I am the eternal self existant god Now if Christ was self existant that puts him equal with God in every sense of the word he does not always existence to the Father He is eternal Now notice how element links I am and so existence with Mark a chapter 5 Verse 2 but that Bethlehem effort other than the little among the 00s of Judah yet out of the South he come to me that is to be ruling Israel his going forth has been from 0 and from everlasting or as imagined says from the days of eternity now how many days are in eternity lots. Never ending exactly but if it says From Eternity What does that mean there's no eternity in the past. It's in the future boggles their memory but eternity in the past does not even compute with me but that God is far above our understanding now here a few more statements about Christ eternal existence from all eternity Christ was united with the father and when he took upon Himself human nature he was still 1 with a gun he was the link that unites God with humanity now some into Trinitarians affirm that Jesus was be gotten or birthed by the father back in the ages of we turn 80 and I say they claim that eternity is this invisible line that we can't see beyond and then Christ was came into existence inside eternity and he came out from behind eternity and here he is eternal but this quite tells us that Christ was from all eternity now and this is not just some of eternity if that's even possible it's even possible to have some of eternity but all means all without beginning this next 1 is really amazing I mean he that liveth and was dead behold I'm alive forever more and have the keys of hell and death these wonderfully solemn and significant statements it was the source of all mercy pardon and peace and grace the self exists an eternal unchangeable 1 who appeared to his exiled servant on the album is called pet mouse so here it is again Christ is so exist and eternal can the English language say it any clearer Jesus says I when Jesus says I And he that liveth he's saying I am that I am I myself exist so the eternal exult existant 1 dined rose from the dead and because of that he has the keys of hell and death if God raised Him from the dead how does that give him the keys of heaven death so far shared with you just a selection what's in my book but we need to move on. Now the question is how do you educate Terence the 1 true god movement how do they explain these clear statement when I say that Jesus inherited the titles of divinity from his father so Jesus is self existant because of his father now but this makes no sense to me think about it now if my father was 30 years old when I was born can I say that I'm 60 years old when I'm actually only 30 you don't inherit your age from your parents do you now God would not ask us to believe something that is illogical as this would be but to back up this idea of Christ inheriting all things from the father I will quote this verse here. The 1 verse is 2 and 4 to back up this idea and it says that God hath in these last days spoken to us by His Son whom He has appointed heir of all things by whom he also made the worlds and therefore being made so much better than the angels as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent 9 than DAY So let's dig into this quite what does this verse really mean when he says that he was heir of all things and he obtained a more excellent name than the angels to understand this quite we need to understand the time frame that Paul is speaking so let's look through the chapter and see if we can find verse 1 God it's Sunday Times and in darkness man is spake in time passed under the fathers by the prophets now verse 1 is obviously post incarnation verse to have in these last days spoken to us by His Son whom have appointed heir of all things by whom he also made the worlds. And this verse here we're not sure because it says but it has. And post and this 3 he being in the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person upholding all things by the word of his power when he hath by himself purged our sins and set down the right hand of the majesty on Hi I'm moving quickly guys because I've got a lot to cover but once again we have both post and print connection here so let's keep going and see if we can understand where this is going best for being made so much better than the angels as he hath by inheritance and 10 or more Excellent name the name and here's the key verse verse 5 for and which of the angel said he had any time that I had my son this day of I because in the and again I'll be on to him a father and he will be to me a son so Paul is actually quite in here from some chapter 2 so in order to understand the time from the pole speaking we need to understand the context of Psalms have to 2 So let's go to some chapter 2 and see if we can fund verse 1 why do the heathen range in the people imagine a vain thing the kings of the US it themselves and the rules take counsel against the Lord and against his anointed now at what time what point did the kings of the earth and the rulers take counsel and raise themselves up against Christ through and gone back in the ages of eternity No definitely not what about it Calvary that's the only time that we could man got their hands on Christ with that in mind let's keep reading let us bright saying let us bright there are bands asunder that is cast away the cords from us he that sit in the heavens shall love the Lord show have them in derision. And he shall speak unto them in his wrath and vex him and he saw dysplasia Yes I've said my king upon my holy hill of Zion now in the context of this verse when was crisis set as the king on Majesty on high what when He ascended back to heaven after he had been encountered. Let's keep reading the next verse I will declare the decree the Lord have said unto me that my son this day have I be gotten me so in the context this reading when do you think the father spoke these words to Christ far back in the ages of eternity doesn't fit the context doesn't the context is obviously post incarnation So let's look at the next verse and see if we can see. That I ask of me at all given the heathen for than what inheritance and the utmost parts of the earth for thy possession now there is word inheritance this is where we're trying to understand in Hebrews Chapter 1 has anyone picked up any similarities between Hebrews chapter 1 and Psalms Chapter 2 Well if you haven't let me show you. But I've checked is a speaking about the same event 1 is a prophecy the other is speaking in hindsight and here's what's happening Christ has came to this earth as a man the kings of the F. set themselves against him against God through the person of Jesus Christ they killed him put him on the team and put God there to keep him in place but God in heaven laughed at them prophetic politically speaking he put their plans to not by sending an angel to to raise Christ from the dead or to call Christ from the dead from the team Christ ascended back to heaven as King of the holy hill of Zion and then the father declared that my son this day if I began in the now what was Christ's inheritance he's inheritance what made Jesus so much better than the angels. Somes checked it tells us that it was the heathen and the world that was his inheritance when Christ died he brought back the earth from Satan's dominion and he won many of the heathen because of his sacrifice back to to God This was what made cry so much better than the angels this is what amazed the angels Angels when I saw Christ come and live as a man and died I suddenly realized what Christ was really like what God was really like and this is what made Christ so much better than the angels in their minds but we need some more evidence to set this in concrete so let's go to the New Testament now in Acts Chapter 13 versity 3 we find Peter quoting from acts from Psalms to 2 and he says God have fulfilled the same unto us their children and that he raised up Jesus again as it is written in the 2nd sum that my son this day by because. So we as a painter sets the context of Psalms chapter 2 as joined the resurrection and Paul does the same thing in Romans Chapter 1 Verse 4 Christ was declared to be the Son of God with power according to the spirit of holiness by the resurrection from the dead and 1 more evidence to show that this is true is from Spirit prophecy Volume 3 page 179 Ellen White quotes Psalms Chapter 2 verses 1 to 4 and then she says Roman gods and Roman armies were powerless to confine the Lord of life within the narrow enclosure of the separate that Christ had declared that he had power to lay down his life and power to take it again and the hour of victory was near so clearly this verse here in here except the 1 is not what the any Trinitarians would like us to believe. It has nothing to do with Christ inheriting or the aspects of deity from his father in eternity past this is clearly talking about when Christ ascended back to heaven and he was reinstated with his former position with the father now Christ was literally the Son of God through the Incarnation through his birth into the Human Rights Now the father could say that my son this die of I because in the and but there's more we haven't had time to cover the rest of that verse but. I don't have time to cover that now so you have to get the book so the evidence that would look at some fact clearly ties the Christ titles of be gotten in Son of Gone with the resurrection so let's look at this son this word son a bit more and see what we can understand as an N.T. Trinitarian I used to put a lot of white on this word son in fact whenever I would read the Word Son that automatically meant because of mother father or Best Buy The Father new age to be Teddy that's what any transparent think when I read the word son in the Bible what does this son really mean this is the question I need us and it's answer question on names in the Bible significant very significant we look at for example the name Daniel It means God is my judge and look at Daniel is all about judgment and Jacob then Jacob main supplants are all deceiver but after he was converted God changed his name to Israel the overcomer it's a name tells us about a person's characteristics who they are and what their role is this is what this is named in the Bible and very significant but what about the names of God you think the ones of God teaches something about him mice definitely in fact there are 109 S. in the Bible for Christ and every 1 of them told us something about the plan of redemption and his just a few. Why should Christ's name of son be any different this is the question you need to ask the name son and be gotten Why should I be any different why should I not tell us something about the plan of redemption a bubble tells us that Jesus is the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world now does this mean that that Jesus was laying the foundation of the world before the foundation the world No Obviously not but this Lem related to Jesus' sacrifice for the sins of the whole world. This highlights an important principle of how God works and why it says in Zorba ages 6 I 6 God counts things which are not as though they were and he sees the end from the beginning and behold is the result of his work as it were now accomplished not often speaks about things in the future as are their current Isn't that interesting Could this apply to Jesus son ship because Elmo is very clear that Christ is the eternal Son of God Look at this point here the word existed as the divine being even as the eternal Son of God in units and oneness with his father from everlasting he was the mediator of the covenant the 1 in Him all nations of the earth back Jews and Gentiles if they accept him were to be blessed so according to this statement Christ has always been the son of God Now editor insurance will try to twist this and say that this is just referring to eternity in the future not Ted in the past but this is doing violence to the meaning of the sentence if I said Adam existed as the eternal men what am I saying and wise and I saying that he is always existing. Which of course is completely false but if I but it's clear probably says that Jesus is the eternal Son of God. Then that's exactly what she means and knowing that she says that from everlasting so from everlasting in the past he was the mediator of the Covenant now question how could this be the mediator of the covenant from everlasting How could he be the mediator the covenant before sin who was the mediating with from him a lasting well what explains the next paragraph Christ was appointed the office of mediator from the creation of God set up from everlasting to be our substitute and surety so long before seen in fact from everlasting from eternity past Christ was appointed the office of mediator as surety of the work that he would accomplish when the plan of redemption came into effect when men fell Christ took up the office of mediator that he had already been from everlasting 1st it was a promise and pledge of what would happen in the future and then it became reality when the time was right before there was sin there was a savior I meant in fact we're told very clearly that the plan of redemption itself is eternal take a look at this all these statements here are them time to read them all but they are if you look at the marginal rendering for the word secret or hidden or beginning they all main eternal and then what confirms this when she she quotes Romans Chapter 16 verse 25 $26.00 when she says the plan of redemption was that which was kept son and 3 times eternal she's using the marginal rendering of the verse and she says the next paragraph of the purpose and plan of grace has existed from all eternity and that the plan of redemption is not an afterthought bit further down in the paragraph formulated the fall of Adam but was an eternal purpose and eternal purpose and another quick statement. Play every day if you has existed from all eternity and he's called the everlasting covenant so surely as there was never a time when God was not so surely there was never a moment when it was not the delight of the eternal mind to manifest His grace to humanity so the read the plan of redemption is eternal as God Himself question can we have an eternal plan of redemption 1 that has always existed without eternal Savior doesn't make sense doesn't what if the father form the plan of redemption in eternity past and then birth the son to fulfill the plan of redemption What does that do to the father's motives it doesn't look good does it and then what if we take this logic a bit further and say oh it the father brought forth the son to feel the plan of redemption What if that plan of redemption failed you think Christ the Father could have robbed of another son and tried again like you could take this logic to the extreme if you wanted to. Another question why did not God Joe himself why did he send his son if God was really loved the world that much why didn't he go himself but the fact is that God did go himself because Jesus is God in every sense of the word so if the plan of redemption is eternal then Christ who is the center of it must also be eternal and this helps us to understand why Christ is called the eternal Son of God in the same way that Christ was has always been the savior revel asking he's also been that's always been the son as token of this how much greater does the sacrifice of Christ appear when you realize that the relationship between the Father and the Son is eternal It's never been broken it's always been in existence it's faster period than any father and son relationship that is it existed here on Earth or is and what puts it there was the sundering of divine powers on the cross. This puts us on the sacrifice of Christ at a whole new level so it is back to a key question is Christ attend a God like the father I've shared with you a small selection of evidence in my book and I think the answer is very clear the answer is yes so let's quickly move on now to talk about the Holy Spirit is a holy spirit an individual person in his own right now this topic of the Holy Spirit is perhaps the most debated and controversial topic of all and the reason is because the nature of the Holy Spirit is a mystery it's not revealed I hope you're very familiar with this quite And if you're not you need to be because it highlights a very important principle regarding the nature of the Holy Spirit and it says it is not essential for us to be able to define just what the Holy Spirit is Christ tells us that the Holy Spirit is the comforter the Spirit of Truth which proceeded from the father it is plainly declared regarding the Holy Spirit in his work of guiding main into all truth he shall not speak of himself no not that point because we got to come back to it he will not speak of himself the nature of the Holy Spirit is a mystery men cannot explain it because the Lord has not revealed it to them men having fanciful of years bring passages of Scripture and put a human construction upon them but the acceptance of these views will what not strengthen the church and who think that regarding such mysteries which are too deep for human understanding silence is golden Now I want to put a few points here it is not essential for us to be have to define what the what the Holy Spirit is to please do not argue about the nature of the Holy Spirit it's not essential for us to define it secondly and his work of guiding men to truth he will not speak of himself now tell me according to this quote Who is it that got us into all truth. The Holy Spirit is the Holy Spirit does not speak of himself what truth would he revealed to us the truth about Christ right who Christ is a trait isn't he not Bible tells us Christ is the truth so the Holy Spirit does not speak of himself he speaks of Christ not that Secondly we're told the nature of the Holy Spirit is a mystery the Lord has not revealed it and I think both sides of this debate need to be really careful not to forget this fact Terence will side the Holy Spirit is the mind of Christ but isn't that defining the nature of the Holy Spirit and I've heard Trinitarians on the other hand imply that the Holy Spirit is exactly like the father and son every in every sense now we don't know we're not told so we need to be careful when we start defining what the Holy Spirit is exceptions of these views will not strengthen the church now how many churches have been split over this issue how many Adventists are leaving the church either having the names removed themselves or being disfellowshipped because of this issue. Regarding such ministries silence is golden So the this mean that we should say nothing about the Holy Spirit Well let's read the next paragraph the office of the Holy Spirit is distinctly specified in the words of Christ when He said he when he is to come he would reprove the world of sin and of righteousness and judgment it is the Holy Spirit that convicts the world of sin Now what does it say is distinctly specified the office of the Holy Spirit what is his office that's his job it is work that's what he does remember in John 3 Jesus described the Holy Spirit as the wind you can't see it but you can feel its effects you can see what it does and this is another very very important principle when it comes to understanding the Holy Spirit if we want to understand the Holy Spirit we need to study the work of the Holy Spirit because that will tell us what we need to know about him. So so far with with discovered 3 key aspects of the Holy Spirit 1 the nature of the Holy Spirit is a mystery not revealed to you that the work of the Holy Spirit is clearly beyond and thirdly the Holy Spirit does not speak of himself his work is to reveal Christ in my book I got 3 pretty much every statement in the Bible that talks about the work of the Holy Spirit and that's quite a list so there is a lot revealed in the Bible about the work of the Holy Spirit Well the time we get the end of this list 1 thing is very clear to do the work that the Holy Bible describes the Holy Spirit doing he must be a separate person it can't be Christ it can't be the father must be a separate individual Let me show you a couple of my favorite verses Acts Chapter 5 this 30 and 32 the God of our fathers has raised up Jesus is paid a speaking to the Jews he needs slew and hanged on a train him have got exulted to his right hand to be a prince and a savior for to give repentance to Israel and repentance of sins and we his witnesses of these things and some also as the Holy Ghost and The Lord have given to them that are by him so Peter is saying we are witnesses of the life death and sufferings and resurrection of the Lord Jesus and so also is the Holy Spirit now the Holy Spirit is the mind of Christ how can the Holy Spirit be a witness on the sufferings and death of Christ and the life of Christ clearly for it to be a witness you need to be a separate person from Christ this verse was a real clincher for me when I 1st when I 1st read it it just hit me 1 day as I was reading the Holy Spirit is a witness so he must be a separate individual to the Father and the Son What is it all might have to say about the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is Christ representative but divested of the personality of humanity independent there of come good night that word cumbered with humanity Christ could not be in every place personally therefore it was for the interest that he should go to the Father and send the Spirit to be his successor on earth no 1 could have any advantage because of his location or personal contact with Christ by the Spirit the Savior would be accessible to all in this sense he would be nearer to them than if he had not ascended on high now the context this statement is Christ is speaking to the disciples and He saying that he's going to leave and he's going to send the Comforter and on what tells us very clearly here that Christ was cumbered with humanity. Now what does it mean to be cumbered with something you restricted inhibited Now this clearly tells us that when Christ took on humanity he gave up on the presence he could not be present everywhere at once like he could before he was cumbered with humanity now the editor Terry and ran into a problem here because if Christ if the Holy Spirit is the mind of Christ the only presence of God then how is Christ cumbered by humanity he's not he's not coming at all because the Holy Spirit is the only presence of God he was before the incarnation and he was after so this made this statement all makes no sense at all if you believe the Holy Spirit is part of Christ but if the Holy Spirit is a separate person representing Christ then this makes perfect sense Christ is coming with humanity so now the Holy Spirit takes on the role of revealing and representing Christ. Now let's read another statement that really confirms this of the Spirit Jesus said He will glorify me the Savior came to glorify the Father by the demonstration of His love so the spirit was to glorify Christ by revealing his grace to the world now this is a very very key thing I want you to understand when Christ came to this earth he came to reveal the Father Jesus said If you seen me you've seen the Father so Christ was the father to us on Earth Christ revealed what the father was like perfectly but when Christ went back to heaven the Holy Spirit took on the role of revealing Christ now in order for the Holy Spirit to reveal Christ he needs to be separate person it can't be Christ Christ can't reveal Himself does not make sense in fact Jesus said in John 5 Assyrian 31 I seek not my own will but the will of the father that sent me if I bear witness of myself by witness is not true so if Christ is the Holy Spirit he is being tested even self glorifying himself revealing himself if I was to stand up and test of our myself and tell you how good a person I am you don't really listen to me are you but if someone else did up and said testified many of then you might listen to that person right and the same with Christ Christ does not reveal himself the Holy Spirit reveals Christ Christ said of the Holy Spirit help when he the Spirit of truth is come he will guide you into all truth for he will not speak in self but whatsoever he shall hear that he will speak and he will show you things to come and He will glorify me for he shall receive of mine and show it until you. This is a very important key the Holy Spirit does not speak of himself he reveals Christ is not it takes the Bible it says to worship the Holy Spirit that I'm aware of and that's because the role of the Holy Spirit is not to be worshiped the role of the Holy Spirit is to reveal Christ so the Holy Spirit in fact his role is to personify Christ now I have not made this world up this would come straight from inspiration the Holy Spirit is the comforter in Christ name he personifies Christ yet is a distinct personality what does it mean to personify someone. You take on the person's characteristics you talk like them you act like them you are that person for all intents and purposes so the Holy Spirit takes on Christ the Holy Spirit is another statement the Holy Spirit comes to the world as Christ's representative it not only speaks the truth but it is the truth the faithful and true witness it is the great searcher of hearts and is acquainted with the characters of all know who else is the truth and the true and faithful and true witness who else is that it's Christ so Holy Spirit is taking on the names of Christ because the Holy Spirit is Christ representative what about this 1 we want the Holy Spirit which is Christ Now this is a new statement that has come out recently since the element of state has released all elements unpublished letters but we have no problem with the statement the Holy Spirit to us is Christ he's Christ representative he personifies Christ therefore to us the Holy Spirit is Christ the unity in the Godhead is such we cannot split them up into separate little pieces they work in perfect harmony together. And he's a few more the Holy Spirit is a person for a bear witness without spirits that we have children of God Now just in case someone has some doubts to your authenticity of this statement in evangelism have a look at this this is animates original handwriting the Holy Spirit is a person for he bears witness with our spirit that we children of gun it's in her pen ink and in fact in the appendix of my book I have a whole stack of skins of elements originals statements and manuscripts validating all these many of these key statements and he's not the 1 we need to realize that the Holy Spirit who is much just as much a person as God is the person is walking these grounds that God is our keeper and our helper and 1 more the Holy Spirit must be a divine person else he could not search out the secrets hidden in the mind of gone I could I could show you more but time is against us but there's 1 more state that I really want to share with you and that is this 1 here Christ our mediator and the Holy Spirit constantly into ceding our men's behalf but the spirit pleads for us not as does Christ P. present his blood shed from the foundation of the world the spirit works upon our hearts drawing out praise and penitence praise and thanksgiving the gratitude that flows from our lips is the result of the spirits striking the cords of the soul in holy memories Awakening music in the song now can you get a clearer statement than that regarding the Holy Spirit in Christ as 2 separate individuals with what Christ is sitting in for the father at the throne and we've got the Holy Spirit who is also interceding but in a different way the Holy Spirit into seeds by drawing out praise impenitent he works here in our hearts. This is very clear the Holy Spirit works in Christ works they have separate roles now this quite makes no sense at all if you believe that the Holy Spirit and Christ are the same being so why did I leave the H. material movement the evidence just didn't stack up when I put it to the test with a knife in mind but I'm actually jumping ahead of myself here because there is more there was before I was ready to make a complete change I needed to answer another question and that was what the pioneers was the the the Godhead past all of the fundamental beliefs that were stablished early on in the history of our church but this with the subject of our next presentation it's a fascinating journey back into the history of our pine is so don't miss it let's pray Father gone thank you for revealing yourself clearly to us through your Son Jesus Christ and thank you for the work of the Holy Spirit that clearly reveals to Christ to us and I pray that as we seek to understand you more that you will reveal yourself to us not to satisfy our curiosity but so that we can have a deeper love for you and be out in the ready when you come back to Texas and bless us now and be with us and bring us all back safely for this next session we pray in Jesus name we pray I meant. 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