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4. McKenney & Nephew- Planning Is a Priority

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  • June 5, 2017
    11:00 AM
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SPAR heads for prayer Heavenly Father we're thankful for this Thursday morning we're thankful for not another opportunity to learn and we pray that as we open the Bible today and then as Patti shares with us that we learn things that are valuable that will help us in the days ahead to be faithful stewards and to help others in Christ's name Amen All right I want you to open your Bibles with me we're going to open up to a parable that Jesus told in Luke Chapter 12 today we're talking about the issue of planning and specifically estate planning and what that means we have attorney Patti McKinney with us today we're so glad that she was willing to come we have the privilege of working with her on a daily basis when it comes to Estate Planning some of you have worked through your estate plan with us and you probably had Patti you know who she is you spoke to are there on the phone now you get to see her face. Work with you and we're going to talk a little bit at the end about what we can do as a conference to help you with your estate planning but here we see a parable and I want to start in verse 13 because Jesus tells us parable after an encounter he has with someone so we're going to start in verse 13 Luke Chapter 12 verse 13 then 1 from the crowd said to him Teacher Tell my brother to divide the inheritance with me so what is that what is that talking about when you divide inheritance when you get it in hand and then heritance when mom and dad passed away right so he's saying hey listen tell my brother to split this thing with me so what does that tell me about the situation there's a little tension right little tension now I've been in this field of state planning for a little over 5 years now and as a pastor I saw this but I never ever have seen it so clear as I do now the tension that comes when mom and dad passed away. Brothers and sisters siblings that are in perfect harmony before now are at odds and we see that here and says But he said of the man a man who made me a judge or an arbitrator over you and he said to them and take note of this in verse 15 take heed and be aware of what covered just this no doesn't doesn't the 10 Commandments say something about that yeah how I shall not cut it right so he says be aware of covetousness be aware of it all covetousness for one's life does not consist in the abundance of things he possesses That's a direct opposition to what the world tells us right the roses no life is all about what you possess Jesus says no it's not it's not that at all and then he tells them this parable He spoke this parable to them saying the ground of a certain rich man yielded plan to flee and he thought within himself saying What shall I do since I have no room to store my crops so he said I will do this I'll pull down my barns and build greater and they're all store all my crops and my goods and I'll say to my soul soul you have many goods laid up for many years take your easy eat drink and be merry but God said to him what fool this night your soul be required of you then whose Will those things be which you have provided so as he lays a treasure for himself and is not rich toward God Now we've been talking about this this whole week that that everything we have isn't ours it belongs to God What happens many times is we start to think that those things belong to us that we own them now we have a responsibility. That responsibility is to make sure that we use God stuff God's way right and we do look at a state planning that's what that's all about because don't think that when you die your stewardship responsibilities are over they're not that's why a state planning is so important because you are held accountable still for the things that God placed in your hands to manage for him after you die that's why I have an internal like Patty right up here we'll have a trust or something like that where it designates where these things are to go is a very important part of stewardship That's why your church Michigan conference has a plan given trust services department that myself and Pastor gene and Mona works in. Because we realize that's the capstone of stewardship So today we're going to talk about a few things when it comes to the estate planning attorney Patti McKinney I mentioned earlier she practices out of Grand Rapids there's an allegation are you still the Treasurer down there still the Treasurer and Allegan. She's a wonderful woman a good 7 the admin is Christian and she's going to share with us some some very. Particular things when it comes to powers of attorney and probate but she's also going to be open for questions OK so you have some questions and we're going to feel those questions as we go so that we're dealing with this topic you just raise your hand and she'll call and that the end will do some more questions OK but I just want to mention here that when it comes to to estate planning when it comes to this whole situation the main thing we have to remember is that our life does not consist in the stuff we have our life consists in Christ and then OK Patty once you come up and then. I'm going to give this to you as you want to record every word. Glad for this opportunity to meet with you today I. Am grateful for all these friendly faces and even some familiar faces some of my. Church family from the neighboring church and and some of 1 of my dad's pals is here good to see you all. The Our topic this morning is planning ahead and as a part of that. I thought that I would talk about a couple of situations that I've encountered recently that just point to the necessity for planning ahead as. It was said earlier that are our responsibilities don't and at our death in terms of the stewardship piece of things. I thought that I would talk about a case that I'm currently involved in that points this out in a really big way in addition to doing estate planning I also do. Some family law work and I have a custody case right now that involves 4 children who had a terrible tragedy happen in their life just over a year ago. Their mother who was in her she had just turned 40. Had a blood clot and had no awareness that she had this blood clot and died just no warning 2 days later the father a sensually died of a broken heart for children. And all of a sudden no parents and the oldest child was 14 years old now the parents had thought about who they would want to take care of their children in the event of their on timely death and they had extensive conversations with an aunt and uncle who had agreed that they would would take the children and they've even gone out and bought life insurance and they named the aunt and uncle as beneficiaries they had a large retirement plan. And dad even named the aunt and uncle as beneficiaries on this retirement plan and the total amount of of money that they had left behind was about a half $1000000.00 What they hadn't done was have a will drafted and they hadn't formally designated a guardian for their children. The family lived in Alabama with no formal documents guess what there was a war between the 2 sides of the family 1 side of the family lives in California 1 side of the family lived in Michigan the aunt and uncle who were had agreed to take the children were in Alaska so everybody's traveling for this big war down to Alabama to figure out who gets the children. Some group the grandparents from Michigan are the ones that ended up with the children and now there is a war about who's going to get to visit with the children to California grandparents get to see them do the Alaska aunt and uncle get to see them and this is. All because there was not. The file through and the planning to do that 1 last piece that would have. Protected these children the parents had been concerned about religious training what sort of religious training these children would have after they passed away. None of that is happening now because they were placed with grandparents who don't have any of the same convictions that the parents had. And and the war continues with the youngest child being 7 it's probably going to go on for the next 10 or 11 years so that points out a really important reason why even very young families need to work on this estate planning. Piece of their whole financial picture. Because although this is extreme and I've been practicing law for 34 years it's the 1st case I've ever run across like this those sorts of things can happen. And another example of. The absence of a real complete plan involved a friend of mine she and her husband had been married for 36 years there was a significant age difference between the 2 of them he was about 11 years older than she he had retired she was still in her fifty's and he died unexpectedly he had been the primary wage earner all of their retirement savings were his. In a for a 1 K. plan and while she had been named the beneficiary. She hadn't reached the magic age of 59 and a half where she could access those funds without any sort of penalty too young to go to a Social Security survivor's benefit and no life insurance and although they had a house that was paid for they had a large 4 A 1 K. she had no no income no way to support herself. Until she reached the age where she could either get the Social Security widow's benefits or access that for a 1 K. plan without paying penalties as a result she had to sell her house and. Leave the area where she had lived for with her family for and has been for the last 36 years so you know a part of that picture if if they would've sat down and had a comprehensive discussion with someone about estate planning it would have been. A topic of discussion that there was this issue of a you know what if what if the older spouse who was the primary wage earner were to pass away 1st how would the spouse that was left behind just take care of day to day needs so just a couple of examples of why everybody. Should plan ahead and it said it's a thing that estate planning is low on most folks' priority list for a variety of reasons not a fun topic to talk about typically. Some people actually think it will hasten their demise if they sign a well I mean I've had people sobbing in my office when they sign because they think that that's kind of the beginning of the end but. I assure you it doesn't have any any impact. And so in the whole theme of planning I thought it we could talk about a couple of documents. That should be a part of the planning process so you can make it easier for. Your family. In the event that. You are not able to make decisions for yourself. The 1st document that we're going to talk about is the Durable Power of Attorney How many here have had their state planning documents done through trust services so at least half of you so probably as a part of your estate planning package you did have. A durable power of attorney. Prepared So it's not working quite as planned so we have a handout this at the top of it durable probate information durable power of attorney. So what is a durable power of attorney the power of attorney is a document that give someone the authority to manage your financial affairs and this person is called your agent. The agent can take care. Of. Your financial affairs as long as you are competent and if it's a durable power of attorney it survives your competence the durable power of attorney and the attorney that are power of attorney that remains effective when you are unable to make your own financial decisions. And if you want your agent to have the authority when you are unable to make your own financial decisions your power of attorney must be durable this is done by adding a clause to the document that makes it clear that you intend for this power of attorney to remain effective after your subsequent disability incapacity or lapse of time and so powers of attorney. Most people. Have durable powers of attorney unless it's a power of attorney is just given for 1 limited purpose sometimes people give a power of attorney to allow someone to do a. Real estate transaction for them kind of a 1 time thing and those aren't generally durable but most of the powers of attorney that we would do through the trust services department would be the durable variety. But there are 2 different options with powers of attorney you can have them so that they are effective only at times that you're incapacitated and not able to transact business on your own behalf or they can be effective immediately as soon as you sign them and remain effective at all times until you revoke them. And you might. Ask you know why why should I care what type of power of attorney if it's the type it's effective only on disability or the type that's effective at all times. That the type of power of attorney that's effective only upon disability. Requires an additional who to be jumped through in order to activate it and that is. A statement from a physician or psychiatrist is needed to establish that you're incapacitated and not able to transact business on your own behalf so some people don't want that extra step. But other folks want to make sure that as long as they're competent they're the only 1 signing their name to any documents. And I sort of favor that idea as long as I can transact my own business I really don't want to give anybody else that authority so what sorts of things can someone do with your power of attorney. They can sign your checks make deposits for you pay your bills contract for medical or other professional services sell your property get insurance for you and do all other things to manage your every day affair so in essence they can do anything with their signature that you could do with your own signature and in order for a power of attorney to be valid in Michigan it. Needs to be signed by you. And it needs to be notarized and there need to be 2 witnesses and within the last few years there was an added requirement that whoever you name is your agent also sign an acceptance. That assignment to be your agent so that's an additional requirement to whoever you name has to actually sign. The acceptance of agency. It's 1 of the commonly asked questions why do I need a power of attorney if my my spouse and I join own everything jointly if you and your spouse own a bank account jointly then your spouse can sign checks and withdraw money from your bank account whether or not you're able or the same is not true of other jointly owned assets 1 of those would be a stock Another would be real estate. Your spouse does not have the legal authority to name or change a beneficiary on your life insurance or retirement benefits either to provide your consent and signature to these legal transactions after your disability or incapacity your spouse must be named her age and under a durable power of attorney. And if. There is not a power of attorney in place and real estate would need to be sold or stock would need to be sold the only remaining option is to go to the probate court and be named your spouse as conservator So in planning ahead we try to bypass those. Reasons for for going to the probate court if you have a power of attorney in place it wouldn't be necessary yes we're very conservative there's a cost to that right that's correct there is a process so it's much easier to do this versus later having to go through all that yes. And not only is there. A cost and a process you now have the Probate Court in your business you have to make annual reports to the court as to how funds were spent sometimes have to require request permission from the Probate Court as to how funds would be spent so. In addition to the cost and the time savings. It's just you have a lot more control and a lot more privacy if you've done the power of attorney in advance. Yes. Talked about Khali. Or returning no as an acceptance or for that just. What about people that may have done us that pre-dated don't have that clause or those documents still valid or do they think it's probably the best course is to update them because. 1 of the things you want to make sure of is that whoever you're presenting these documents to. Isn't going to question them and so to have the most up to date documents is preferable to the way that the person would know that they're looking for a real car turning like this or if it doesn't end with the place or their name attorney to sign. That it's OK to be safe that's that's absolutely correct. Another question that comes up is whether or not you can name more than 1 agent. Or or whether you can name. An alternate agent in the event that your 1st choice is not available or able and it is absolutely possible to name more than 1 agent to act jointly or you can give them the authority to act independently so that both say you have 2 children that you want to name as powers of attorney and you want either 1 of them to be able to transact business on your behalf the document can be drafted in that fashion so that either 1 of them would be able to. See some folks want. Collaboration or cooperation of their 2 agents to so that both of them would have to sign off on anything but it can be done both ways also you can have it have backup individuals alternate so in the event that your 1st choice is not available or able to act then you have someone else in place to. Take over the responsibilities of being your agent. Can I make a durable power of attorney and that becomes becomes affective only if i'm become incapacitated OK we already talked about that. A question that's come up recently and my practice is. Someone called in to make changes for their spouse who's now in the early stages of dementia and really doesn't understand what's going on once once you reach the stage of being. Mentally incapacitated can't be any changes to your power of attorney it's set in stone the way it is. But up until that point in time you can change your power of attorney changed the agents. And you can also completely revoke it so just because you put a power of attorney in place doesn't mean it's there for ever and always you can. Revoke it pretty much in the same way that you granted it in writing it's best to have 2 witnesses and to have that notarized and then the revocation is delivered to whoever your prior named agent had ben and to anybody who might have possession of that Power of Attorney your banker. Insurance agents or anything like that there are protections for for you as the grant or of a power of attorney. The agent the named agent is abrogated to act in your best interest and if they act in their own self-interest the remedy is for someone acting on your behalf to seek restitution from Earth through the probate court if you're not able to do that yourself if you've lost capacity so there is oversight in that way if somebody abuses. The authority that you've granted to them and you can you can see that this is a really powerful document so whoever you name you have to have to trust very very much OK any questions on powers of attorney yes. The. Power of Attorney dies with you so. The moment somebody passes away whoever they've named as agent no longer has any authority to act under that document. And occasionally people try they take those powers of attorney and try to scurry around and do some last minute things I've even had a client do that yes you're able to use or something even. Just. It though everybody should have a power of attorney because you never know no matter what age you are something could happen you could be in an accident where it would be necessary to have something in place for an agent to be able to act on your behalf if you are unable to yourself so your dream is no longer you. Will lose all. Exactly a will or a trust which ever. Type of a state planning. Vehicle that you have just the way you are the morning in the park each. Week belong to the Nexus 10 rounds and we have the state interest in the early part of the week I'm guessing that's a part of the package. Because most. The basic estate planning package that most of the conferences provide would include a well powers of attorney for financial matters and powers of attorney for health care but it's always a good idea to pull it out take a look. And let the place I know of the process let me know that this conference let me move to another state lead to me in the queue we don't really have don't like to resist things but. It's it's probably a good idea to have the documents looked at just to make sure that that there's nothing that would need to be updated or changed but in all likelihood whatever you didn't Texas is would would work here but it's a good idea to have it looked at. Through the car so. I believe that the conference would offer that service suppose that you're going to meet with the real or service. OK Any other questions on the financial powers Yes you. Know. If you are. Competent and able to pursue that agent yourself. You can file an action in court to have the by overstepping bounds I'm assuming that there were some financial. Times. Also we're talking about the. More of the medical kinds of things no that's fine so that's what we're going to go into next the. Health care powers of attorney and so on the tap of the sheet it says probate information patient advocate designation designating someone to make medical decisions the Michigan statute that created the health care powers of attorney. Came to be shortly after a real high profile case where a lady had had a traumatic brain injury and had been in a nursing home pretty much comatose for I think it was like 17 years. And there was a big family fight over about what she would have wanted if she could have made her own decision about whether or not to have life support so the. Michigan legislature and lots of other states as well. Passed legislation to provide for the opportunity to make those decisions and appoint someone to speak on your behalf in the event that you can't participate in your own health care decisions so what is a patient advocate designation. You have the legal right to make your own medical treatment decisions But suppose something happens that makes you unable to make your own medical treatment decisions who will speak to the doctors who can choose a person you can choose the person to make the decisions for you by signing a legal document called a patient advocate designation and that's the same thing that I was just referring to as a health care power of attorney this legal document gives the person you choose and that's person's called your patient advocate the authority to make the decisions for your care custody and medical treatment when you cannot what if what if I don't have a patient advocate designation if you become unable to make your own decisions and don't have a patient advocate designation the probate court may be asked to appoint a guardian to make decisions for your care custody and medical treatment so just like with the financial power of attorney if you if you don't have 1 in place and it's necessary for someone to take care of finances the same is true for health care if you don't have someone in place the probate court is the fallback position. To approve. Medical treatments and you could go into the local probate court for whatever county you live in and I guarantee you that 1 day a week you'll hear hearing after hearing of people who are in there to ask for permission to be named a guardian so that the health care decision can be made for some family member or close friend so it's a real everyday thing for people who haven't made this plan ahead to to do the health care power of attorney. Or the guardianship. There's substantial amount of money for them. So it will be better for you to plan the star this is a way for you to say funds to save a party of family members and all that are. Always in those types of situations where it's some sort of emergent health care decision that needs to be made there's always 2 court appearances there's the 1 for a temporary and 1 for a permanent guardian appointment if the person lives long enough and so that the time that you spend not only. Going through the process of getting the documents ready but going to court and the expense and ongoing reporting once a year there has to be a report to the court about how that guardianship is going so roughly with us because we're talking 3 hours regarding me. Oh I would think that it would probably be at least a $1000.00 because. The filing fees are significant just under $200.00 for the filing fee and in those kinds of cases the court also in my county also appoints somebody called a guardian ad litum that goes out and visits the person who. The Guardianship is being requested for to make sure that that's an appropriate thing and they report back to the court so so there's that guardian ad litum fee that also has to be paid as a part of the process so it can be fairly expensive Yes So. Family members are 1 of the finalists in a quest from the Lord. Court and you're saying that. The guardian ad litem report that that is becomes a part of the court file if if there is a guardianship filing in the room with us. What they're doing the guardian ad litem doesn't make any any decisions about the care they just make recommendations as to whether or not a guardian is needed so whoever that is named The Guardian by the court is the 1 who makes those decisions and so that's the go to person for the rest of the family. Yeah. Right so you can just go with the law. And all that is where you know this is just not. Right and I suppose. Maybe it's going to be your dad if you don't have this document. Because this is really hard so if you're ALAN KOHLER You know what's going on right so that's another reason for the health care power of attorney because then somebody then medical providers have the authority that they need to actually provide information to whoever's named as the Patient Advocate. Those movies they give something heavenly reward when. I'll tell you practically speaking when they're when there's this husband and wife situation. They will the House care providers typically look the other way and don't request lots of paperwork but they can they can't most physicians offices have spouses sign off release is so that. The physician can speak to spouses about that sort of thing but I think probably even in the absence of that most health care providers will have some sort of discussion with a spouse but the safest course really is to have the. Patient Advocate designation so that those releases are in their system and would you also use over the years. They always documents. Are effective with just witnesses and. That also is a part of the standard estate planning package that is done through the conference office and Joel will talk a little bit more about that I'm sure. When. He said that that really is this is for your spouse let's say whether you're just you know current We should should we or the lives of people that you know are. Probably take that for the love of something that is that this is the law or is it just. Is probably not a bad idea but with. Technology being what it is now is for usually pretty easy to to get it scanned and emailed or some other transmitted some other way but I mean it's always every It saves time if you have it with you. Yes it's all right see you a journalist has medical issues there on the 28 to 21 when you're in the hospital system and we have access to the doctors to look like they're in a different state in your system with a band from. The state where yes. And in fact I have in the last few years had quite a few parents come at the beginning of a college school year when they have kids going off to college and get that sort of paperwork done so that they have the authority if their child is injured or gets ill when they're away at college that they can communicate. With physicians So what is your recommendation. As to the patient kid having a copy of the document for instance Oh I have adult children so. Why don't children just like it because it's my life and I weren't a sex it was still their home. And our children need to make decisions for us they may not be able to go to war college in the US market is a good idea that. You will be designated as a patient get copies of these vaccines to have I think it's a good idea to give them copies of the documents we do have some folks that change their mind a lot about who they want to be their patient advocate so retrieve all of those from the the person who you've taken the authority away from becomes a little problematic but for most folks that's probably a good idea to make sure that a copy is with the person that you've named as your patient advocate So the question here is when can your patient advocate act who are viewed named as a patient advocate and I think that's comes to to your question they can only act if you are incapacitated so you have to you have to be declared by a physician or psychiatrist to not be able. To participate in your own health care decisions so they those only become a fact of if you're not able to participate in your own health care decisions so that you could hear oh you know your experience right that's correct right the car will grow slower. Like you know. Then you're your own spokes person again yes you are absolutely. Convinced it is like you are the sounds of life that you cease to see. And you have to do in the dark. You do not have to do new document you can set it up so that there's an alternative. Designation and these documents just like the financial powers of attorney whoever you've named as your patient advocate needs to sign the form saying I accept that responsibility so that's what makes them become completely effective What are your patient advocates duties on your patient advocate must act in your best interest just like with the financial power of attorney the Patient Advocate must make take reasonable steps to follow your expressed desires preferences and instructions and within the form that we use we have you actually signed off on what level of care you would want in the event that you were not able to participate in your own health care decisions. Your patient advocate cannot condone allow permit authorize or approve your suicide or homicide your patient advocate cannot make life ending decisions if you are pregnant so there are those kinds of limitations or in the statute your patient advocate may withhold or withdraw treatment allowing you to die only if you clearly and convincingly authorize that patient advocate to make those decisions so that has to be clearly spelled out in the document the patient advocates powers cannot be designated to another person without the patient's prior authorization so this is the situation where you've named an alternate You can you can do that but nobody can name an alternate on your behalf and finally the Patient Advocate cannot receive compensation but can be reimbursed for expenses medical professionals are required to use sound medical practice and they also are required to follow your patient advocates instructions if they believe your patient advocate designation is valid and your patient advocate is following the law so you're the last word if you put it in writing any questions on the health care power of attorney or patient advocate designation is the term I guess for using here no questions are right yes. I'm going to. Respond to. It is this. It can. Yes if they don't agree and I hear people say over and over again my kids would never fight. They will get along perfectly Yeah. Yes and then want an alternate absolutely that we have here in the people close to him or her a good deal. I don't know if there's any legal precedent for that I wouldn't recommend it as a practical matter I'd just bite the bullet make a decision as Who do you want to be primary and then would you essentially have a primary alternate Anyway if 1 has more thought right that's the I guess that is what it would be bad like yeah. Yes. That's right. Just like. Right. Now unfortunately that is part of the statute. Is really a. Good thing. So. We're still. Well on. That. But the but they can't act on it. I was just having clarifies what you're looking for a patient. Who should. I've got my own daughter but I go out that is that is not necessarily the person that is the closest to you. Because your spouse may not be able to fulfill your wishes just because you will so maybe need to be the brother me your best friend so that he will feel members they just withdraw on and they will have the good the boldest the girl I want my family may go well that exist that's absolutely true because. You're the family members that are closest to you may have the most difficult time letting go after that what your wish had been and that's just. It's such a motional stuff I think about the night that my mother died and the you know the doctors coming in and saying we knew that she didn't want any resuscitate but they come in and say well what do you want us to do there's some hope and so you start to think. Do whatever you can keep her alive but you know that's so you need somebody who really has the courage to follow through with whatever your wishes especially if it's the tough choice that they don't want any kind of extraordinary measures that. That takes takes kind of a tough person to do that they do I mean they would they would have the if is long as they are still mentally competent. The probably going to need the assistance of somebody else but they can walk out of those institutions they don't have to stay there if if they're having lots of. Opposition do they have just 1 child. Versus medical procedure every would go into a police yeah if they're still mentally competent and somebody is. OK So that's the way there's so probate court is there is the only recourse then and they would need to get permission to have a an independent evaluation done by a different physician and then have the court make a decision about whether or not the Guardianship was appropriate Yes So that would for sure require litigation OK now we're going to talk a little bit about probate. And that's a word that makes people shot or but it shouldn't. The the popular position is that. You should avoid probate at all costs but I personally don't think it's a bad thing in most cases so the handout that we're looking at says probate information probate in the skated ministration So what is probated ministration Anyway it's the court process by which the property of a person who has died is distributed since. Dead people can't sign documents to. Transfer real estate or bank accounts and have to have a live person to do that a stated ministration after a person's death involves gathering the assets of the estate paying debts and finally expenses and then distributing the remaining assets to who ever is Degnan designated to receive those in the will or if somebody doesn't have a will there's a Michigan statute that says how things get distributed if you don't have a will and of course this is put out by the State Bar of Michigan so they have a nice little line here a lawyer can assist in every aspect of his stated menstruation but we know that that's not necessary don't we Joe. Lots and lots of people do probate estates without an attorney ever looking at a single document it happens every day and in Michigan we have a process that is pretty user friendly it's form driven it doesn't require any court appearances in most cases it's simply preparing documents and submitting them to the court and the probate register names are signs what's called letters of authority that. Designates someone to act as the personal representative. What are the assets that are owned by the deceit that's 1 of the things that has to be determined early on. There are jointly owned so we owned assets are the only ones that come into the probate estate so if you own real estate in your own name you have bank accounts that are in your own name stocks that are in your no own name without any beneficiaries named those are the sorts of things that would come into your estate anything that you owned jointly with someone else as rights is with rights of survivorship pass automatically to whoever that other joint owner is or any asset that you've designated that's payable on death to someone else and bank accounts can often be set up that way pass outside of probate no probate would be needed to transfer those assets. Assets that are held in a trust. Would not become part of a probate question will the joint. Owners or owners will live. Their lives to. The full on in need to. Be struck. With. A joint joint tenants with full rights of survivorship is we're talking about a piece of real estate. They're going to have a hard time attaching that. Type of asset it is. I mean there is some risk involved but if it's joint tenants a full rights of survivorship if your joint tenant has a debt as soon as they pass away you become the only owner of it and so no no lien can attach to it so it falls completely. Outside the probate and there's no opportunity to collect a debt based on that asset. Recently there has been a new tool in this whole. Quest to have assets pass outside of probate and that's called a ladybird deed and I'm getting more and more requests for this type of deed and what the way they work is. You can create a deed transferring. A piece of real estate to another individual and then the actual transfer doesn't not become effective until your death but passes automatically upon your death so if you. Decide in the meantime. Before your death that you want to sell that piece of property you're free to to sell it and keep all of the proceeds. You can continue to to. Deal with that property in essence as if the ladybird didn't exist and then you can actually reverse the ladybird deed if at some point you decide you don't want that person to have the the property after you pass away so that something that is being used more and more as a tool to avoid probate if the primary asset that a person has is their home. To the I believe it's still the date of death I said you get a stepped up basis of the data so that the person only knows how to do. That would be ready to go to holding this Ladybird might be a little hard. To do and yeah if if that's the primary asset and they want to make sure that their 2 children end up owning it jointly that's it's. A good tool for for lots of folks to just sort of button up the whole estate planning process OK Ladybird Ladybird we're going to go 1st really to get Medicare Medicaid eligible for the 5 year look back. Well since. It does not preclude a problem with that because it's not a present transfer and also. There's nothing for Medicaid lien to attach to because the property then transfers automatically so the words are right if I really heard today in the year oh I need to go with their single The house is still yours and so. That's not going to be part of the yes us or what they look at say the range is let's just get it will have to be a part of the Medicaid application but your home is an exempt asset OK so. If it's some other piece of real estate other than your home then it could potentially have to be spent down but as long as it's your residence at the moment you never know if at all change. OK so they spend some time here talking about. Assets that are part of a probate and typically IRAs don't end up in a probate proceeding because you have named beneficiaries so anything that you have named a beneficiary on. Passes to whoever you've named as your beneficiary same is true a 401 K. plans life insurance policies and annuities you typically have beneficiaries on all of those and then there's a whole little blurb about why you should hire a lawyer and then to talk talk a little bit about what has to be done in a probate process after. The death of your loved 1 and the 1st thing you have on the list is directives regarding funeral arrangements Michigan has passed a statute that allows you to now have a document that specifies what sorts of funeral arrangements you want to have. And frankly the Michigan conference. Approached me about discussing these with clients and I have to confess that I haven't done it regularly because when I do people say why do I want to talk about that. I don't care but that most. Probably the most important. Reason to have the document regarding funeral arrangements is if you want to be cremated because. If you don't have it clearly spelled out sometimes there are hitches with cremation if you can't get all the proper people to sign off saying OK go ahead with the cremation so. After someone has passed away that that document should be found so that. Wishes can be followed in that regard any prepaid funeral or burial contracts original last will and testament. If there is 1 trust agreements if there is a trust agreement. Premarital agreement that doesn't come up very often but some folks to marry for a 2nd time later in life when they have each of them have had separate. States acquired during their lives before they. Remarried they have agreements about what's going to happen with their assets after they die so those premarital agreements need to be pulled out any bank account information recent statements for all the bank accounts safe deposit box keys if there are safe deposit boxes retirement account. Information titles too to vehicles and other title the items tax returns yes all over the. Place. Or. What was the process. OK I had said that anything that you die within your own sin your own name alone you need to probate a state for that but this is an example of where I made too sweeping a statement if it's just if if you have. Just vehicles that are in your name alone. It's not necessary to have a probate state for those if they're under $60000.00 in value there is a streamlined secretary of state process that allows for the transfer of vehicles. By just filling out a very simple little form presenting a death certificate and then those can be transferred to a surviving spouse so there are a few few things that. Can be transferred that way with. A probate process. But if you leave 1 single by bank account in just your name and you pass away with your spouse has to open up a probate a state of some type maybe of the very the smallest a very abbreviated process but still a process is required but. There's a. Dollar amount. Below 000-000-0000 yes. Tom Bradley going to. That's what I refer to as a small estate. But if there's 1 thing I own that we have a trust in the US. Last year and the lady had a trust that. The bank accounts were over that even if they were under the gun but it was not taught the letters were destroyed it was all. Just so that they were going to take the affidavit and assignment. Is that it would take hours but I was hoping. To get 1 but. They were talking about the level where this whole state there's there's something called a summary a state or a small estate in Michigan and that the dollar amount changes. Based and over time it increases and I just looked that up I think it's 26000 I might be it might be 22000 or 22000 then OK so if the. The A state after the payment a funeral expenses is last stand 22000 then you don't have to do a full blown probate perceiving It's this small estate process where you you just. Basically fill out an affidavit spelling out what the assets are their value the dollar amount of the funeral expenses and then documents filed with the court and you're asking for that those for those assets to be assigned to you so that you can. Liquidate the bank account or whatever the asset is that answer it OK. And I think that I'm running out of time. This would. Welcome any questions if you don't want. People to call the office and are concerned about protests are usually concerned about 2 things people are. Going to cost a lot of money. And then there are horror stories of my nephew just it was time for 2 years or 4 years or 10 years yeah yeah so talk about what some of the general costs are but even more than that what causes things to get excited over this is this document says you know 5 months maybe you know a good set of there's a 4 month waiting period or whatever you want to claim some period for creditors maybe tell us some things that. Would cause probate to be tied up in a long time and that leaves clients during their real estate recession what about 2008 to 2012 or 13 selling property that kept probate estates open waiting for real estate to sow. I have a probate right now where there's a mezzo feel you know my claim and they're waiting for all the claim to come in from everybody who made asbestos but this guy might have been hailed that's been open for about 3 years. But short of those kinds of things are lost and that needs to be resolved or some assets they're having a hard time selling. There isn't really a reason for them to stay open generally for more than about 6 or 8 months and distributions to be made during that process and that's correct as soon as a claims period passes for creditors to present their claims and those those claims that been dealt with there can be partial distributions that day so catch yeah it's way different now way different so you're calling me have thank you. So what we're going to do real quick is talk a little bit about Pastor Gene you want to hand we're talking a bit about what we can do for you and I say we it's a conference and Patty she is the attorney that helps us with these documents but your church the Michigan conference. Is in our plank of interest Services Department what we do is we help you get these documents in place we feel it's very important that you have a poverty for finance and medical and you have a will in place OK so we're headed on a card right now and if you do not have those documents in place like I say you can you can do 1 of 2 things you can go to a local attorney and pay a lot of money to have it done OK and waste the Lord's money. Or you can come to us and believe it or not our department will pay the fees for the attorney so you can do $1.00 of 2 things if you're like me or stingy you're Scroogie you'll come to the conference office right because not going to cost you anything but. Anyway get these documents done but if you want us to help you with the process fill this card out and we'll get in contact with you have a conversation over the phone to see what your needs are and they will make an appointment come by sit down with you and your spouse and we'll get the information together we'll get it to Patty Patty will draft documents should call you with a consultation there's a process you work for her and then we bring the documents back to you for signing OK So that's kind of what the process that works there was a question. You know Wills poverty and finance and. So the question is that you've got a divorce. And you have full custody rights because we believe. He should do that he should name a guardian but the reality is the other parent does have 1st crack at custody after if you were to pass away but that shouldn't that shouldn't stop him from having a will done and naming the Guardian that he would prefer. That any other questions on like the process and what we can help you with when it comes to 2 wills and yes you're right. You know what we're out of those seats I think. But tell you what what we'll do is if you contact us Patty if you can get that to us give us an e-mail we'll get that to you Don. QUESTION It is just. You know. OK So there's a question here that let's say just say that you are moving to Michigan. And I'm going to kind of look at Patty as I say this I don't want to move go over a line I shouldn't go but if you're from a different state they use not necessary that you have to get a new will but it's advise you do right get a state specific wells that correct or at least have done other states will review just to make sure complies with OK everything here OK So if you're moving from a different state you need to have that looked at what we do is you could call us we'd probably get a copy of that we should add to Patty she would look over and say well yeah our well now and then we go from there OK but typically we had we encourage people get a state specific Well let's just be easier so in the questions. OK yes 1 more here life insurance is not something. And. Life. Life insurance is a recommended it depends upon this is my estimation if you have a family. Yes you should have life insurance OK Is it necessary when you're getting older and you're a stablished. I mean we had situations where it's been beneficial to the conference someone had a life insurance policy and her whole plan was to make it benefit charity but you know the older you get the more established your life insurance in my estimation is for that a stopgap you're a young couple if your husband passes away he's the bread earner he should have life insurance so that the spouse and the children are not left out desolate that's that's my thought on the circumstance of my friend it was a huge hindrance he did correct or correct me if that life insurance policy would have been going to her then she would have been able to keep the house and and that level of income so what we need to stop tomorrow or coming back again we're going look at 1 of my favorite parts of stewardship and as a generosity aspect being able to be generous with what God has given you to be a steward of so let's. You. Yes when you walk out if you filled out a card please hand those to Pastor gene and again we'll be getting contact with you after we recover from camp meeting. Let's pray Heavenly Father we're so thankful to you and that you have entrusted us to stewards help us to be faithful with all that you've been trusted us with and as we continue to go about these this campground May your spirit continue to to tug on to Hearts may we have a deeper conversion may we may we come closer to Jesus and and may we see him come soon but until that day keep us faithful and help us to do the planning that is necessary to be good stewards in Christ name him in this media was brought to you by audio from a website dedicated to spreading God's word through free sermon audio and much more if you would like to know more about audio for us if you would like to listen to more sermon leave it W W W audio purse or.

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