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8. State of the Dead

Jim Howard




  • June 19, 2017
    3:00 PM
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Father in heaven thank you so much for the beautiful day that you have blessed us with thank you for the Spirit of God that is given to each 1 of us when we ask and we pray Lord that you would give us clarity and discernment on the topic today and a greater confidence in your word in you and in the calling that you've given every 1 of us to share our faith so bless us to this and we thank you in Jesus' name amen. All right. You know I was here last and actually. Presenting on what day was Sunday day Wednesday yes as a 1st No Monday Monday and. And I talked to you about Pastor Tony sure fire method you remember that OK how many of you actually tried to ask someone for Bible study after we talked about past a kosher primary. We have 1 here we have 1 here and we have 2 here OK We have 4 people. That's where is the other 1 right here OK. I'd like to hear what happened so if they're. Going to that So so far right I'm not only 1 the 1 where 2 for 1 right now Amen All right Alexa's. Praise the lord OK who is next yes. They both said yes. And they both said yes. Wow this is I mean. I don't sorry if I don't seem surprised but when you ask you know it often happens that they say yes go ahead. I just. Had a mental Wow OK The pressure's not on or anything so dull worried no problem go ahead tell us what happened and I don't know. Well you know what the worst thing that could happen from you asking was what happened and how bad was it that you're still here the Lord is still working and you planted the seed in somebody's heart so that they're going to be thinking about the question that US and that's 1 of the things that I often will tell people if they go and do any type of witnessing like going door to door or anything like that people sometimes will reject you and you'll feel awful but you have made them fink about spiritual things and a lot of times they still think about it after you are gone and so you know what praise the Lord for your courage and I would I would really want to impress upon upon every 1 of you maybe you don't have somebody you're planning to ask why you're here can't meeting but the reason that you are here is to learn how to share the people and the big hurdle the big hurdle is asking. So the thinking about it be praying about it and and start trying to come up you know maybe it's your maybe going to go to your pastor and see if you can find interest that way but I'm going to tell you that you're better. Responses and results will often come from people that you already have some measure of contact with so just be thinking of praying about it and we'll be praying with you I'm so glad to hear the reports and I know the Lord is going to bless every 1 of those Bible say so I want to pause for just a moment and just Unless Pastor Mark has on and say before I was OK go ahead. We had I don't know if you heard 1 of the testimonies that. We lined up for the group mission spotlights in the evening was Conny Conny has gone through a manual many years ago and when we were really promoting a Bible study offer and had the whole conference thinking about just ask him we had little cards just ask cards she said you know I just need to do that so that Sabbath just asked Sabbath they went to a nursing home or something and she just went up to a guy and asked him if you want to say he said yes and then she was at I forget it was a gas station somewhere she asked this guy who studies this she knew from somewhere around town or something and he said Yes Anyway she's kept adding up now she's got 6 Bible studies and she got another Bible study and she had to give it to the pastor because she didn't she can't handle any more bible studies and she said I would have she said I could get more. I just I just don't know I just don't know what to do of them you know I can't you know so. If you have too many maybe you don't maybe need to ask on behalf of the people who aren't asking you know and hand them off I don't know but anyway resort for for that kind of courage you know some people let's to be a lot of some people are just have a knack and in our very what I want to yeah i'll going you know they're just very it just rolls off of them and they have no problem doing and other people it's like you know jumping off a cliff you know and to do it so but what I always try to encourage do with is the devil always makes obstacles look bigger than they really are and and know that but no matter how big they are faith is about overcoming a house so I just encourage you to step out and I want to pause here for a moment pray for those who got Bible studies pray for this I don't know to see if the Lord will do something with that special with that and then pray for the rest of you as you're thinking about who you're going to ask or the studies you're already planning on getting are the spare heads Father in heaven we just want to pause here and offer a special prayer. For these who have asked for bible studies while here can't meeting and receive a yes Lord we know that you're working on the hearts of those who have responded positively and they don't know what they're getting into and perhaps there's a great deal of anxiety or or uncertainty but Lord we pray that you will use these individuals in this room who are going to be giving those bombs that is to just disarm and be winsome and help to draw close to these individuals so that as the heart is softened the truth will find a home and so we just pray that you would reach these individuals by the truth that you would win them into your kingdom and that when we get to the sea of glass will be able to look back and say that can't meaning 2017 was bearing fruit to eternal life and so Lord thank you for that we pray too for the individual who said I don't know and we pray that you would work upon his or her heart just Lord. Don't let this individual rest until they yield to you and learn to pray for those who are already giving Bible studies or already have some lined up I pray that you would give them special wisdom intact I pray that you would give them love and sympathy so that as they spend time in their work Lord you would give them fruit from their labors and then I pray for those who don't have a single Bible study and they're just nervous they don't know where to get 1 they're just not sure exactly how to approach this just yet but they have to have that burden on their heart that's why they're here or I pray that you would bless each 1 of these individuals in this room and give them the courage and the wisdom and insight to know who to ask when to ask and to just keep on asking until they get that bible study that will enable them to begin growing closer to you so bless us in all of these requests we know that you will because of your promises and because we're asking in Jesus name a med you know it all right. I have been tasked with the topic of the mystery of death and so we're going to talk about death most of you have been through many studies or Vangelis in the things on this topic and I want to. Tell you this particular session might be a little bit different in the sense that I have given you a handout that we don't have for every topic OK but we're working on it. Most of you are aware I don't have 1 here in front of me of the discipleship Pam Bach. I'm not hiding those books back here. So I would have in the passage where they go. The discipleship am book. This book was put together by a committee here in Michigan Pastor Mark and I are both on that committee and we have a few others Cameron to pass repayment of Asians on that committee and have you know Stacey Shefa formally Stacy tremendous Bob worker and a pastor's wife and she's on that committee and then Elder gesturing staff ourselves it minister of directors on that committee and we developed these discipleship resources as well as the little booklet that you got the a green 1 fundamentals of faith which is more of a baptismal preparation booklet but we continue to work on resources and what we're in the middle of right now is something that we will be calling the Bible study handbook and it is a resource to aid 7th Day Adventist Church members in giving Bible studies and this is a draft of a chapter out of that book OK it will be covering all the topics and in each case it will be laid out similarly I will tell you that we had our recent change in how we want to lay out the chapters and we haven't gone back and modified the death chapter to reflect that but for the most part this is the way it will look I'll just give you a little snapshot of it you have a little opening paragraph to say what it's about and then it talks about the biblical evidence and under the biblical evidence it will go into certain key points or main points as we have discussed and it's been erased here but 1 of the questions that you should ask before anybody you give is what are the key points that I'm trying to convey and you are not talking about 15 key points talking about generally 5 or less key points that you are trying to convey and in this particular study we have 4 key points you see I'm on the handout on the front page. OK and under each key point it gives the most persuasive texts to establish that point and under each text it gives an explanation of how that text does establish that point once you get through the all of the main points and all the texts. What it says and here is additional arguments that we have chosen to remove us are going to be there anymore and the prophetic connection is not going to be there anymore either the concepts will be in the book but it's going to be laid out differently instead we're going to have something called a summary and conclusion. And then after the summer in conclusion we will have the final appeal and then after the final appeal we will have common objections are not no common questions I should say common questions and that you'll see that a good chunk of this chapter is the difficult questions section and then finally Mark for mission where we'll give texts that you can use to mark your bible for that topic and a little way to mark your Bible so that's the idea of the Bible study handbook There's also a whole 1st section that talks about the whys and hows of giving Bible studies so we will talk about you know practical how to give a Bible study how to get a bible study the importance of prophecy the importance of of Christ being the center of our Bible studies. There's a number of chapters in there once you get through that you get into the heart of it which will be about $25.00 ish chapters like this 1 that will be on specific topics and it will give you a little bit more than what a Bible study guide itself would give you you are saying what I'm saying like if you look in a Bible study guide every question might have a sentence or 2 sometimes it's got more than that but oftentimes not much and it's helpful I find for laypeople to have a full explanation it's almost like what we're doing is taking the argument as you would present it in an evangelistic meeting or something and putting it on paper so you can read the explanation and have a better understanding because our feeling is that if a lay person understands the topic then they have confidence to share it and 1 of the things that you know we've talked a lot about how to do a class like this 1 of the challenges is. You know everyone's at a different level in terms of how much they've studied and that sort of thing. And you know you can hear someone present something and go wow that was incredible the earth moved the sky receded as a scroll but I don't remember a thing of what just happened and I couldn't share that you know with you know you know understand I'm saying sometimes it's wonderful and everything but it doesn't it doesn't feel like it's helping let me just say again what's really going to help more than anything else is when you actually do this I mean this class is helpful because it's getting you thinking about it it's refreshing that the topics for you that you're getting you yeah that's right that's true that's true but what really is going to get you to a point where year feeling a greater level of confidence is when you go through this with somebody else there's just no other way to do it I mean explaining something to someone else is the best way to understand something yourself and here's why because you can hear a sermon and it makes sense. But not until you go to explain it to someone else do you have to actually boil it down in a way that makes sense to them and once you have to organize your thoughts in such a way that someone else can understand the topic you start realizing what you know and what you don't know you know what I mean and so that's why you really can't get to that point where you oh OK I'm really I really do understand this like you would like until you start explaining it a little bit and you know that's just practice and experience so don't feel if you leave this week and feel like well you know I just I still don't feel quite ready i need 12 more sessions and I need you know and I'm not saying you shouldn't get more sessions but you shouldn't wait to go ahead and start sharing because that's really where it's going to pick up for you and where you're going to start gaining confidence OK So that being said what I'm going to do is we're going to walk through this because kind of laid out the way that I would do. The class for you and you know if I had this forever topically would be taking you through the Bible study hymn book as well who'd be doing and walk me through that so you see the key points of a topic but we do have it for this topic and so I'm going to do it and then I'm going to take you through this study guide into show you by the questions what Which main point is this question coverlets main point is this question covering so that you can kind of get a feel for how these 2 would go together all right are you cover all of that it's OK let's dive in to the topic of death here and look at the 4 main points on the cover page I wish that I had page numbers here but I don't so you're going to have to just please forgive me for that and then walk along with me and that way you know you'll be sure to stay where I am on the pages but in the very front there are those 4 points under the biblical evidence. The 1st point says The Soul is a combination of both body and breath the 2nd key point that you're trying these are the key points you're going to what the person you're studying with to get OK The 2nd key point souls are not immortal God alone has immortality so souls are you know we're talking about humanity 3 Death is like unconscious sleep we do not go straight to heaven or hell when we die and for life after death comes only through the resurrection now which of these do you think is perhaps the most critical and the 1 that is is most essential that you want people to make sure that they get because it's so. Prevalent that people don't understand. That. They are all key points. But I'll tell you that that that the most critical and it's hard to say most critical because some are foundational and some are whatever but the most critical 1 is number 3. And and let me say this you might say well but it's built on the foundation of number 1 into 1 in 2 you have to understand order to get to number 3 well perhaps but not entirely the truth is less and less do I study with people where they say oh the soul is immortal and they kind of use that terminology the immortality of the soul that used to be very common terminology that terminology is not used a lot of people do think that you know you spent 23 minutes in heaven or 23 minutes of hell or whatever those books happen to be so anyway let me just say that number 3 is probably going to be where you have most of your texts are to help establish that not the you're going to me you're going to stablish each of these key points but that's going to be where most of the texts come from yes. Yeah we'll come to that OK let's try to establish it from the Bible 1st and then we'll and then we'll come to that I will tell you briefly. I had a lady that I studied with long time ago before I was a pastor and I was just given a Bible study as a lay person and she had her sister had told her about it she had gone online and learned something about the Sabbath and years her sister had and so her sister told her about the Sabbath and so she decided to go check out a Sabbath keeping church she found at the 7th heaven Sabbath she came into my Sabbath school class and then at the end of the Sabbath school class I asked her why was that in that way you do. And she said Oh I've been looking for something like that and so we spent time studying the Bible. It wasn't too long at all before we got to this topic and it was. It was not great because I made a mistake I invited someone who is fairly new. To be there at the study you know I did want to study alone with her and then there was somebody else because of the Sabbath have to noon decided to join us so there was like 4 of us there. And I began to study this topic 1 of the things I learned really quick and you'll learn this a lot of times when you're studying the topic of death is that. Sometimes people will think that what you're saying is what they believe in other words you're going through the tax talking about how you know the dead know nothing at all that they're like oh yeah yeah yeah even though they still have not gotten it hasn't registered yet that what you're saying is totally different from what they believe you know what I'm saying. And this is not this is not only on this topic this happens on a lot of topics just so you know but it came to that point in the study where I had gone through several tacks and she was kind of nodding along and happy and I'm thinking she shouldn't be happy at this point this is not good. No that's not what I mean I don't mean having I mean she didn't seem like anything was stirring her yet and so she N.C. made a couple comments that indicated that she believed that it's what she believed and so I finally like took the text and I deliberately said this is what it's saying this is what it's not saying and I made it crystal clear that people who die are not in heaven they're not you know and I just kind of made the strong emphasis and you have to do that sometimes you don't want to get to the end of the study and think oh I did my part I read all the taxes even though it went over their head I did my part you didn't do your part unless they understand what you are saying and I'm not what you're saying what the Bible say so I did that it became very clear to her and. Then the precious. New person who I had studied with previously was there and she said yeah and all of a sudden she kind of it came to came to this person and then the new person like Yeah and that's not all they're not burning in Hell either and you know it's there is gone you know giving the next study early and so now I got to you know clean up and all that well she stood up and she walked off to the restroom without saying a thing to us it was very evident she just was upset. And when she came back I said you know I know this is so overwhelming and everything and I think it's probably best if we just close the study with prayer and we can we can talk about this more later and touch base there I at that point I knew that it was it was sensitive enough to her that having 4 people there it was not a good situation the other 2 that were there and then the 1 was who knew what was going to happen next with the new person and so I just kind of said let's let's follow this up later and so we had prayer and the others dispersed and she walked out and as she walked out I followed her to her car and I said listen I just want you to know all that I understand this is a very difficult thing to learn some of these things but give it a little bit of time and I'll be praying for you and I want you know that. You know you can you can call and ask questions anything like that and she said. Well now you know she said it's OK I know I'm going to believe what you're saying. I know it's I know it's going to be true. And at that point she had learned that basically everything that we studied was from the Bible and she said it just bothers me. She said because it's just 1 more thing to make me different from my family 1 more thing to me you know they're already about to you know alienate me for the Sabbath and everything else is 1 more thing you know. So it wasn't all that she was mad at us or that she didn't believe it or anything like that she was just dealing emotionally with the issue and that happens when you're studying with people you're not just dealing with you're dealing with the most sensitive thing in a person's life their spiritual beliefs and decisions I mean there's nothing deeper in the onion so they speak then to be talking about spiritual things which is why when you give a Bible Study the people that you connect with when you get a Bible study it's a connection that is many times deeper than than even their friends that they've been close to for many years because you end up talking about overcoming habits and challenges and all these things that are the deepest part of their life and you're shifting their foundation Yes So they're so they're confiding in you they're opening up to you about things you're having to wrestle through things with them and that's why that's why when you study with someone and they become baptized become members of the church or whatever it is like a spiritual parent situation you will always be connected to that person you know because it's meaningful. And but having said that my point in direct response to what you were saying is that this subject especially oftentimes has a lot of emotion attached to it. Because of the fact that loved ones have died they've got ideas that they have used to comfort themselves whatever idea that is they have used that and they have had to come to a point of resolution in their own hearts and so hearing something different can really rattle that but will talk a little bit about ways to try and encourage them. Even when they're going through that the way that the devil. Seeks to deceive is not by doing evil things but by causing us to sympathize with and look favorably at things that are on biblical. So you know he may actually cause something good to happen in a situation that you shouldn't be believing in order to. More make it more strong your desire to believe that or your thought that that would be true the devil is not against comforting people if it puts them into deception I mean what other way would you do it would be bring them pain no then they're going to run the other way so. You know I can't speak to your specific situation entirely although except to say that based on the Bible we do understand in though that your son is resting peacefully in the grave and that would not have been your son what exactly it was we know we probably can't any of us tell you for certain but it is true that the devil can or his evil angels can impersonate lost loved ones and does and will and in an increasing. Amount of time or quantity as we approach the end of time the 2 great deceptions that were told in the great controversy will the world will rally around of the false religious world will be Sunday sacredness and the immortality of the soul immortality the soul is referring to the idea that once someone dies that they continue to live. Their thoughts and their spirit continues to live apart from their body after they die and those 2 errors are the devil you know that's what he's trying to to wrap people with 1 thing we know is that God is just and merciful and though we don't understand exactly we try to figure out exactly how he's going to do it and what he's going to factor and all that kind of thing the truth is it wouldn't matter if we could figure all that out he's still going to do it better than we could and Hill he'll be faithful The other thing that I'm encouraged by you know I did a funeral for my father in law who was alcoholic most live. And you know I was blessed to be his son. He made a lot of mistakes. There are some things that we cling to at the end of his life that could be hopeful signs but that happens a lot of times and we don't know right but 1 thing I do know is that the Bible says that he will wipe every tear from our eyes what that means is that right now we can't understand how we could how we would even want to be in heaven if any 1 of our loved ones was not there but what it means is that there will be no he will he will remove the grief of loss I don't know how he's going to do that but we have that promise that is assured there will not be that now you know what I'm talking about that feeling of loss I remember distinctly after my father died my dad was 63 when he died and I remember distinctly at work. Couple of years after and I was standing outside a cubicle of somebody who was listening to some music it was 1 of those stations where they play you know songs from the seventy's and whatever and I and there was a song playing you ever hear a song that takes you right back to when you're a little well it took me right back to when I was just a little boy and I had these feelings and I love this some you know it's worldly but there's certain news it from the seventy's every time I hear it it gives me comfort because back then I was there with my mom and my dad and my grandma everybody you ever loved is there you know what I mean I mean you think your grandparents are just born with gray hair ness is everything static you know. And I remember just listening to that and not really wanting the song to end I'm just listening to it and thinking and is kind of letting myself thank you. And sense that feeling and then the song was over and I thought to myself This is why this life can never be happy because of loss I mean there is no way once you start to experience losses no way that you can have full joy in this life ever again I mean you know what I'm talking about if you've lost people that you love yes it heals but it's not the same but in Heaven somehow someway we have the promise that God will wipe away when it says tears from our eyes it means grief from our heart that's what it means it's going to take away the sorrow no more sorrow no more pain so I'm encouraged by the fact that God is loving and just and merciful and I believe that that means that he can look into situations where some people will be in heaven that we weren't sure about and we're so thankful we were surprised but the Lord saw factors that we didn't see and they'll be in heaven but if for some reason there are those who are not we have that promise in and certainty that God is going to give such comfort that he's going to remove every trace of sorrow or loss from our heart that's so there won't be any pain from it your sense of that's just a really encouraging reality in you know I thank you for bringing this up I know it's very personal to you but it just goes to show that when you're giving a Bible to help the topic of debt. Often times you're not just talking about the facts of whether or not someone is here or there or whatever you're talking about something that is that is personal and and oftentimes the heart of deep wounds and feelings of loss that are in people's lives so you have to be sensitive in regard to that so thank you and and I know the Lord's going to be good to you and he's going to he's going to be fair to all of us I saw your head yes right. Right which is why you know when you 1st have someone who passes away and you know they believe in love and went to heaven you know you don't necessarily want to go and hey let's have a Bible study right now because you're wrong about this and I really got to say straight I'm not saying you would never share the truth about death shortly after so you know if it seemed like it was something that would be important or helpful but I'd be real cautious and careful about it as a general rule I don't make a big point of it like even when I do a funeral sermon I'll preach the truth about death and funeral service I do it regularly. But I'll do it more from the positive standpoint rather than saying what is not true and I'm not going to point out that they're not in heaven or what I'm just going to point out that they're sleep in the grave but soon you know the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout with the voice of the archangel the trump of God in the dead in Christ will rise 1st right and that's where you want to say and then we were alive and remain We caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and thus shall we ever be with the Lord therefore comfort 1 another with these words the Bible says they were to comfort 1 another with the truth of the resurrection so you can point that kind of thing out and people can get it it may not totally dismantle these ideas that their loved 1 is in heaven or whatever but they will start to create some cognitive you know confusion. Yes I want to text as an exercise. So all right let's dive into the text let's look at Main Point number 1 the soul is a combination of both body and breath the text that we generally will go to to establish this key point is Genesis 27 you go right to the beginning and on the handout. It's got the New King James version it says and the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and man became a living being of course the King James we know says a living soul. It's good that they translated it this way because the truth is that it's what a living soul is is a living being and. I'm going to show you kind of how this works I won't read every description but I'm just going to read this so you can see if you are going to be going through this you could learn for yourself why that text explains that the soul is a combination of both body and breath when Adam was created God 1st formed his body from the dust and then breathed into him the breath of life both the body and the breath were necessary for Adam to become a living being translated living soul in the King James Version contrary to popular opinion the Bible does not teach that the soul is a conscious entity that can exist apart from the body you don't technically have a soul you are a soul a combination of both body and breath the confusion that exists on this point is due in part to the broad variety of ways that different Hebrew and Greek words are both used and translated the Hebrew word nefesh for instance often translated soul is also sometimes translated life person mind heart or creature to name a few it can refer to the person himself to his life or to his innermost thoughts and feelings however it never refers to a ghost like immaterial being that can live think and feel without a body this view is derived from the Greek philosophy of dualism which taught that consciousness is not dependent upon a physical body a teaching not found in the Bible so you understand then that the whole idea here is that for humanity for us to have consciousness we have to have a body we had to have a brain I mean if the body was truly separate from the thinking part of us then why is it that when you crack someone over the head with a baseball bat they don't think so well. You understand what I'm saying the body and the breath make a living person and so you have God giving each 1 of us the breath of life and that for humanity requires a body and there is no such thing as humanity living outside of the living and thinking outside of the body so right from Genesis to verse 7 you see that there was 1st man in the dust of the ground and then he breathed into him the breath of life and then he became a living soul so it doesn't say that he was given a living soul he became a living soul you understand the difference and that's the key point in Genesis 27 is that body plus breath is what you need for a soul a soul is not separate from the body All right everybody OK with that Ecclesiastes these $127.00 says the same thing but often is used as a text to say something different then the dust will return to the earth as it was and the Spirit will return to God who gave it OK now why why why would somebody use this text to teach something different then what are how would someone uses text to teach something different from what I just shared. Because it says the spirit returns to God and so they say See when you die your soul goes straight to heaven here's the problem that that is people assume or we call it in. Hermeneutics or how to interpret the buy we call ice a Jesus they put preconceived thoughts into the text instead of letting the text tell you what it's saying and the preconceived or assumption that's being put in there is that that spirit is a is a thinking person you understand they assume they they put into that that is the real you the thinking person here's the problem if you look at Clay's Yes he's Chapter 12 in the context you'll find that it's just talking about what happens when people die so if this is just what happens when people die then what happens when anyone dies whether the righteous or the wicked then they would all go to heaven if this is saying that you go to your exam and I'm saying this is it proves too much for them but the truth is that the word here translated spirit is ruach which is simply the breath OK So this is not talking about a thinking immaterial person inside of a body this is simply talking about the breath of life that was grieved into the body to make a living soul or a living being and that's why it what you have here is the reverse of creation the dust returns to the earth as it was and then what happens to the breath it returns to God where it was right because God had to breathe into the body in order to make it a living being so all this is saying is that God is the source of life God is a source of life in other words this is emphasizing the fact that you are not your own little God God doesn't make a bunch of little immortal god it's. But instead all of His creation is dependent upon him for who lives at all times that you know that every morning when you wake up and your heart is beating it's evidence that God has a plan for you he does not have to keep your heart beating it's not like he started the thing up and now he leaves it off that's that's where the D.S. believe that's not true the Bible says in Him all things consist God keeps everything alive that is living there is an active he is active in all creation and when a person dies it doesn't just returns to God who gives another words is trying to say that God is the 1 who sustains life at all times but he does allow natural processes to happen as a result of sin and that's why eventually that breath of life returns but anyway the key here is. And there's another Texan here it's worth looking at let me just read the start reading the paragraph here says death is creation in reverse the body returns to the dust in the breath returns to God The Hebrew word translated spirit in this verse is ruach it is more literally translated breath or wind and is often translated this way in other verses for example job 27 verses 3 and 4 as long as my breath is in me and the breath Ruach of God in my nostrils my lips will not speak wickedness nor my tongue uttered to see this passage makes it clear that the spirit the returns to God it death is simply the breath or air that is in our nostrils it is not something living or conscious that leaves the body it is simply the spark of life that God is taking back. You follow that how job 27 kind of shows that because the word there Ruach is being translated breathy here where it was translated spirit in the other verse this is part of the problem is you're going to have these different the same original language word is translated differently in certain verses and it causes people to get confused so anyway that's 1 example now flip the page but you have to go to the back because it's double sided OK And look at Psalm 1 o 4 verse 29 to 30 you says you hide your face they are troubled you take away their breath they die and return to their dust you send forth your spirit they are created you know that the word there translated breath and the word translated spirit are from the same Hebrew word so it's not talking about. Here the Holy Spirit per se this is speaking about the breath of God the life of God and it says you take it away they die you send forth their created so the breath of life is what keeps living beings alive this is not talking about a living person that's floating around outside of their body OK it's talking about the breath of life the life giving power of God is the breath of God the Ruach. The. In some cases spirit are you OK with that and. Let's look now let's keep moving because I want to spend most of our time Main Point number 3. Our main point or 2 souls are not immortal God alone has immortality so I like to show at this point that the idea that we don't die was 1st promoted by the devil himself when in the garden he said You shall not surely die right so this is a false view that the devil has always tried to give that we somehow have immortality in ourselves now look at 0800 for its very plain behold all souls are mine the soul the father as well as a soul the son is mine the soul who says shall die so life and consciousness ceases when the body dies in the breath of life or turns to God You can't say the soul is immortal when the Bible says the soul that since shall die is that clear OK Well I'm glad that 1 of you feel that way 1st Timothy Chapter 6 1st. Chapter 6 verse 15 is your most critical text on this point OK The Solo says shall die is a very straightforward text but this 1 is. Is I want to say even broader It says the King of Kings speaking about Jesus so it's only giving you the partial piece of the text but the KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS who alone has what immortality dwelling on approachable lie and I have some who say well what do you mean the alone has immortality the angels have immortality No not really they borrow immortality and in heaven will we put on immortality we're told that in 1st Corinthians 15 this mortal shall put on immortality However we have to. Put it on it's not ours inherently OK it's God's God alone has inherent immortality that is what divinity is that's what makes him God that the fact that he has existed from all eternity and through all eternity is what makes him God when we start saying I'm immortal I can't die which many many evangelical Protestants say from Billy Graham through the you know you go right down and they talk about the the value of the soul the human soul is that God made it immortal No God did not you can't you can't technically many a god doesn't make gods OK Alternately he makes a creation and He gives his creation immortality but that's by his sovereign choice so it says here what's. He can take that away absolutely absolutely even end but he won't because he's promised even angels Bara life from God for God alone has natural immortality the idea that human beings have immortal souls implies that we are naturally divine making us akin to God This of course would be a blasphemous claim so you understand arguments all aside that the Bible is clear that God alone has immortality right so you can very clearly tell people says the soul guys talking about human souls but that God alone has immortality and we've already learned that you don't have a soul but it takes body and breath to become a soul and you are a soul a living being and that is what we've learned so far through the 1st 2 key points are let's take our 5 minute break and then we'll dive back in. Father in heaven we're grateful for the privilege of studying your word and we pray that you would give us the Holy Spirit so that we might have discernment understand in Jesus name in OK are we ready to dive into Main Point number 3 you all talk nearly enough already to dive into Main Point number 3. I mean. Yeah. I need affirmation. I'm a little fragile and I need affirmation Yeah. All right. Main. Point number 3 Death is like unconscious sleep we do not go straight to heaven or hell when we die so this is the point that is most confused out there and you're wanting to make sure that you make clear so the 1st part is the sleep part so you want to give a couple attacks that show that the Bible does in fact use the terminology or the metaphor of sleep to describe death so we have a couple there some 133 it's nice because it uses it twice consider and hear me Oh Lord my God and light my eyes less I sleep the sleep of death that's pretty clear right and then of course John 11 which is the story of Lazarus being. Called forth and it says these things he said and after that he said to them our friend Lazarus sleeps but I go that I may wake him up and then they said well oh if he's sleeping that's good I'll get some good rest and let's let him alone and he'll feel better later and then Jesus says they are then says Then Jesus said to them plainly Lazarus is dead because they didn't get there when he said he was sleeping he meant that he is dead now in the in the paragraph you'll notice that it says the by our 1st death as a sleep over 50 times now why is this significant I'll tell you why I think significant you know yes it's only a metaphor but a metaphor has to match the reality why would use a metaphor like sleep to describe someone alert and enjoying the bliss of heaven you understand what I'm saying. There is no reason to use the metaphor of sleep if the reality is conscious alert what have you because that would be a contradiction so it's not total proof but it begins to lay the groundwork for them to understand oh that's interesting the Bible refers to death as asleep that doesn't sound like consciousness and alertness then we go in to the right to the heart texts OK Ecclesiastes as you know 95 and 6 and verse 10 for the living know that they will die but the dead know not thing OK And then of course it goes on and talks about all the other things that are not with the dead so they don't have thoughts feelings there's no partial slumberous not a semi-conscious state the dead know all nothing is very clear Psalm 6 verse 5 for in death there is no Remember incivil you in the grave who will give you thinks hey if it was true that hey we go right to heaven when we die and we're with God How could it say that in death there's no remembrance of God Now this is totally contradictory as it is Psalm 115 and verse 17 I mean if there is 1 thing that we would be doing in heaven if when we died we did go straight to heaven it would be praising the Lord and yet it says the dead did not praise the Lord nor any who go where down into silence OK So keeping in mind here I'm going it can I get complicated for just a minute. I'm going to complicate it for just a minute and then when it's over to live as complicated then ignore everything and I just said OK. That's it that's no problem but there is you know. There are people who believe they read these texts and they say well yeah it says in death asleep because your body sleeps but the real you who goes to heaven you know when you when you're in a funeral in the Protestant preachers or evangelical preacher is is saying what happens he says oh oh you know but Johnny is in a better place and he's swimming with the dolphins and singing with the angels and whatever. In those cases who is which part you know if they break the person down into 2 parts the body and this thinking part the thinking immaterial soul right so which part do they consider Johnny the immaterial thinking part right so if that's what they think then they can change it around when they read the text and it Texas the dead do not praise the lord who's the dead that's Johnny right Johnny does not praise the Lord nor any you go down in the sun they can't now say all that's on that Johnny's body. So in 1 case they say the real you is the part that goes to heaven but when the Bible says no the Dead going to silence the dead or in the grave this own ass is his body well you can have it both ways. The truth is that this is simply saying that the individual person body and breath ceases life and is laid in the grave and you know there's no real logical way to get to what they are saying but I wanted you to understand that that's the conflict that they have when trying to understand these texts because the way that they will try to prove the way that they will try to explain them is to say that all that is talking about the body all that is talking about the body is talking about the body well when the Bible says they were as were about to get to the David has not ascended to heaven how can you say that it's talking about just his body it said David why do you say Johnny went to heaven but you wouldn't but the Bible says David hasn't gone so you know I'm saying the Bible is speaking about the whole person and they're trying to split up when they split it up they can say that the text refers to whatever they want to but they switch it around and make it really really confusing OK now to turn your brain back on and let's go back to the part that made sense OK. Well that's a real good question. I mean the truth is the truth is if we could enjoy the bliss of heaven without our body then why come back for it but that's a whole other story OK Psalm $146.00 and verse 4 his spirit departs he returns to his earth in that very day his plans are the King James says his thoughts perish and so we understand that this is not talking about just the body this is talking about consciousness if the body is not needed to think then why when the brain the physical brain is affected such as a baseball bat hitting you on the head why do we no longer think well or think at all. Because the body is absolutely essential and as it's it's so connected that we can't figure out how it separates you understand I'm saying it's beyond humanity to try to figure that out it's the life of God and it's a bit of a mystery OK Job Chapter 7 says in verse 8 to 10 the I Have him who sees me will see me no more while your eyes are upon me I shall no longer be as a cloud disappears and vanishes away so he goes down to the grave does not come up he shall never do us return to his house nor shall his place know him any more it says that those who die shall no longer be so they cannot come back to visit or communicate with the living I think this is important because it doesn't just say he shall never return to his house prior to that it says I shall no longer be so the as the essence of this is not just that he chooses not to or that God doesn't let the floating spirits and haven't come back or anything like that it's that he can't he's dead you know when it comes right down to it it seems really odd but we have to do a lot of gymnastics and go through a lot of text to prove to people that dead people are dead like they're really dead. And there's a contradiction that people have created you know when you change the language around and when you make the language mean something different than it's intended to mean all of a sudden everything gets confusing and so you've got to recalibrate people that the dead really are dead. Of course is. That's right I'm a keep moving John 52829 do not marvel at this for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear his voice and come forth where are they when they hear is voice. This is another example this is the real them all who are in there is a talking about the person right where is that person in the grave now there's a bit of I don't want to get confusing here but it probably will but there's a bit of metaphor here right I mean some people are scattered on the ocean and some people are saying and people worry about you know cremation all that but the reality is that God is not dependent upon the exact same you know bits of dust raw materials as was used for the individual as they lived so there's a bit of metaphor here but there's also a literal element to it as well and it says those who have done good to the resurrection of life and those who've done evil to the resurrection of condemnation so when Jesus returns to the rest to resurrect the dead the Bible says that they are in the graves they could not have gone back with him to heaven if the Bible says that when he comes there in the graves it does not say he brings them back with him and will look at the text that people try to say that it says that but it does not say that it says they are in the graves and he calls them for. Very clear and now Acts chapter 2 which to me is the home run it's like you know you can't get around it there's nothing that you can do to get around it other than to be dishonest with your own thinking Acts chapter 2 verse 29 and 34 this is in the middle of Peter's incredible Sermon on the day of Pentecost in which he quotes from Psalm 16 to prove that Jesus of Nazareth was the Messiah and that he was resurrected from the dead because Psalm 16 said that you will not allow your holy 1 to see corruption you will leave him in Hades or in the grave OK so he's trying to prove that this Jesus of Nazareth was the Messiah and he was raised from the dead and that's just what the Bible said would happen and he proves it from Psalm 16 and then he says hey I know that what you're thinking David wrote the Psalms and it's in the 1st person but let me tell you David was writing about the Messiah not about himself because David his tomb is with us to this day he's dead and buried he's seen corruption his body is in the grave that's what he says and then he says he goes on to say David has not ascended into the heavens but Jesus has and he's poured out the Holy Spirit's on the day of Pentecost as part of the Holy Spirit that you now see and hear so that's the context of the argument now let's read it so you had the words clear in your mind Men and brethren let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David that he is both dead and buried and his tomb is with us to this day for David did not ascend into the heavens. Now David did have a grievous sin but scholars are. Agreed that his repentance was genuine Some $51.00 shows it and we believe that David was. Truly repentant and will be found in the kingdom of God and yet this says that David did not ascend into the heavens if the dead who are righteous go to him when they die this text simply cannot be now. You have just seal I mean we're not talking about 1 text here. I mean the dead do not praise the Lord the dead. There is no remembrance of God for the dead in that day his plans or his thoughts perish. When I come back they'll be in the graves David has not ascended to the heavens the dead know nothing I mean these are all consistent and add them up and what you come up with is the most important thing in people understanding Bible truth and that is the weight of evidence because almost every topic if not every topic has texts that can be twisted to sound or that are confusing. Discreetly confusing that same that they could speak saying something different from the rest of the text but what you want is to know what the weight of evidence is in other words if you are you know flying overhead and you are looking at a fence and there are only spans posts and there was 1 like that what would you think needed to happen to fix that fence. Would you move all these up. No you would move this 1 right here. Because this is the weight of evidence. And. This 1 in every crowd and that can. Go. Right it up later. So so the point is when you're giving a study you know you're going to be coming up to difficult texts right so you've got to make sure and establish the key points with the weight of evidence that's the 1st thing you do is establish in the way of evidence and here's the thing when you come to these Adventists believe that we have to tackle these We've got to we've got to hit it head on OK well what is that saying then and we have to try to reconcile it with what the Bible says Be clearly saying in other places but many other people who study with well just keep clinging to that 1 thing as Iowa Well you know Richman Lasser's I mean it's clear oh never mind the fact that you know turn to ashes destruction you know I mean over and over and over I could line up text they feel no burden to reconcile their believe with the weight of evidence in the Bible that is a dishonest way of studying the Bible and so when I'm studying with someone I'll say that I say look if we're going to be honest we have to come up with a good reason for all of these texts if we think that it's saying something different then we've got to tell me what these texts mean then and you have to get people thinking right. And then you help them to deal with those difficult texts and say OK now let's if all of this is this is stacking up then what about this text and then you start dealing with it OK Well we haven't gotten to the objection text yet but I'm just going to scoop past Main Point number for life after death comes only to resurrection. I like to make sure and talk a little bit about resurrection so minute just show you the text that we have in here 1st Corinthians 15. Is where Paul says if the dead do not rise then those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished now what you think about what that saying from it if the Dead didn't those who have fallen asleep in Christ who is that. That's the righteous So he's saying if there is no resurrection no resurrection equals the righteous. Perished. Right OK Hear me out a 2nd you follow is that what the text says I need you to either say yes or no is that what the text says not just what I'm writing on the board but I want you to look at the text and tell me if you could tell if you could read it and justify that this statement right here if if there is no resurrection How is it worded again. If the dead do not rise. Then those who have fallen asleep in Christ the righteous have perished right so if there is no resurrection then the righteous of perished Well wait a minute if the diff the righteous go to heaven when they die then what's it matter if there is a resurrection if why would they be perished they might not get a body but they haven't perished. Are you with me. This is totally ridiculous the Apostle Paul is very clear all through when he talks about the resurrection that resurrection is required for life after death it's you can't have life after death without a bodily resurrection that's what this proves and person is 15 the next passage 2223 is the same thing says whereas in Adam all die even so in Christ all shall be well. But each in his own order Christ the 1st fruits afterward those who are Christ's OK so the righteous are made alive when. OK I mean as you question those who believe that you go straight to heaven when you die do they believe that when Jesus comes back to resurrect the body that's to make a person alive because what do they believe they believe they're already alive they just think he's coming back to get the body but the text is clear that the only way that they can even be alive alive is conscious the only way they could even be alive is at His coming at the resurrection because you cannot be living in conscious without a body because body plus breath is where we have life and consciousness yes. Sure yeah right actually I mean if they can already enjoy it anyway here's another 1 John 14 I love this 1 and people don't usually use it but I love I use all time in my Father's house are many mansions were not so I would have told you I go to prepare a place for you and if I go and repair place for you I will come again and receive you to myself that the words that mean. So that OK in order that or so that right so notice when he's saying I'm going to replace and I will come again and receive you and others are going to come back to get you so that where I am you can be what you say. You saying there's only 1 way that you can be with me where I am and that's if I come back to get you right it's right there in the text all right and then of course 1st US on it's 4 verses $1518.00 were talks about the resurrection and. And being caught up to meet the Lord in the air and I'd like to point out the very end of this passage Well 1st it says the dead in Christ will rise 1st then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and thus was the word thus me. Consequently or in this way and thus in this way we shall always be with the Lord so how is it that the Bible says that we are going to always be with the Lord. And the resurrection right there is no it rules out any other way thus in this way we shall always be with the Lord text after text show that for those who have died only way they will go be with the Lord and for those who are living to be translated will be at the 2nd coming of Christ and the resurrection Mark I saw your hand. Yes. And it might. Go I mean I hear what you're saying but why. Would you say it this way when I like to ask them. Yeah you know. Even you going to. Get a. New. Back. And I think. What how do you understand that that's right maybe. They accept. That maybe even Peter's thought that yes that's right not in my own right. That's right maybe. It's an excellent point. All right look over to the other side of the page I'm not going to spend a lot of time here but I want to ask you a question what are you looking forward to what's your reward. That as a Christian that you are promised in the you're planning on. Everlasting life OK and. What's at. Play in your sleep etc OK Notice what it says in Matthew $1627.00 for the Son of Man will come in the glory of his father with his angels in the middle of the page and then he were rewarded each according to his words so when does that reward happen if if our reward is to be given immortality and delivered Jesus. Then it makes no sense for the Bible to say his reward is with him when he comes if that's true then our reward really is a death that's when our war if it's true that you go to heaven and enjoy the tourney with Jesus beginning when you die then that's when you receive your reward the whole idea that oh no when you come back and get your body that's what it really gets good you know give me a break if I can enjoy heaven without my body and I am sure of eternity why would the body be the the big thing you know Marty would Jesus it's not possible to break those up the reward is directly connected to the resurrection and to being made alive like all the other text looked at now Matthew 22 is a fantastic text but I'm going to let you take your thinking cap and I will let you deal with that another time because I want to go to additional arguments briefly and then to comment objections because we only have about $25.00 minutes left OK additional arguments I just want to bring out this from a logic standpoint a false view of death contradicts other Bible truths the I did and this is something I will after going through texts I will share this in a Bible study let's just reason through it and I'll just reason through it the idea that we go straight to heaven or hell it death violates at least 3 other fundamental Bible truths 1st it contradicts the doctrine of the judgment because there is no need for a future judgment if one's destiny is already determined when he or she dies why do we need this judgement of everybody's got individual little judgments happening as soon as they die 2nd it contradicts the doctrine of the 2nd coming because there is no need for Jesus to come back to get us if we are already in heaven and lastly it contradicts the doctrine of the resurrection because there is no need for a glorified body if we can enjoy the bliss of heaven without 1. Those are just obvious common sense arguments that you may have already shared a little bit but just attacking them on it and helps people to start thinking yeah you know I never did really understand how that all works and it just makes sense of it for that. I want you to go to the common questions if I had time I would go to the prophetic connection that's that's there for you to read because I do generally have a question or 2 where I'll talk about. The connection to spiritual ism and that sort of thing in the dangers but I want to go to the questions because I know that that's where people struggle so let's go to the text that people used to say something different from what we just laid out in the weight of evidence did Paul say that when he died he would go to be with Christ Here's the text Philip means 1 verses 212-2342 me to live as Christ and to die is gain but if I live on in the flesh this will mean fruit for my labor yet what I shall choose I cannot tell hard pressed between the 2 having a desire to depart and be with Christ which is far better so what is he referring to when he says to depart as dying right departing is dying in his terminology so let's read this here many read this text as if Paul wrote that he would depart and was the word that they immediately be with Christ which he did not to know where and he expected to be with Christ we have to look at another text and it's in 2nd Timothy 4 verses 6 to 8 it's right here in the body the paragraph he says Where I am already being poured out as a drink offering in the time of my. What is the departure. It's death the time my departure is a hit and he's talking about his death I have fought the good fight I have finished the race I have kept the faith Finally there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness which the Lord the righteous judge will give to me on that day what day the day of his death. Notice what he says and not to me only but also to all who have what love is appearing now all it reconciles with the weight of evidence right that ultimately when he said I desire to depart and be with Christ is simply saying he knows that when he dies his next conscious thought is to be with Christ he has other good fight establish the race and then the next thing for him is to be with Christ but he made clear when that happens and the other text in 2nd Timothy where he says it's not just for him but also for everyone who has loved his appearing in other words this is going to happen at the 2nd coming of Christ which is only consistent with what he has said in every other place 1st Corinthians 15 where he says that you know when this mortal shall put on immortality right at the last trump 1st that's alone eons for where he says the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout then the dead in Christ will rise and then we who are alive remain we call it together all the other texts reconcile when you understand it in that way are you all comfortable with that that's the Libyans Yes. And. Right. That's right that's right. Which is really also the whole point 1st nestlings for if we had time to go through 1st lessons for that's this whole point is that those you know we're not going up at different times if you read persistence for that's really what he's saying is you know those who have. We who are alive will not proceed those. Who are in the grave which is a phony are you for him to say if the current view was true he's trying to assure them Hey don't worry those of us who are alive are not going to go to heaven before the ones who are in the grave. Of that of the ones in the grave or are in heaven you know it makes no sense of them anyway let's look at the next question which is probably the most common objection text OK This 1 is from 2nd Christmas chapter 5 does the Bible say that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord let's read that passage for we know that if our earthly house this tent is destroyed we have a building from God a house not made with hands eternal in the heavens or in this we groan earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven if indeed having been closed we shall not be found naked for we who are in this tent groan being burdened not because we want to be unclothed but further Clode that mortality may be swallowed up by life now he who has prepared us for this very thing is God who also has given us the spirit as a guarantee so we are always confident knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord for we walk by faith not by sight we are confident Yes well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord this is the text that is probably the most commonly given to say there you have it right there to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord The only problem is that's not what it says it doesn't say to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord it says and look at the 2nd sentence in the paragraph below Rather Paul says that he desired to be absent from the body. And to be present with the Lord a reference to separate conditions that occur at different times let's look at it closely the key to understanding this passage is in recognizing that Paul outlined by the way it's always these passages where all these metaphors are used that they want to make concrete you know but you've got to boil it down and solve the symbols and what the metaphors are saying the key to understand is passages and recognize that Paul outlines 3 possible states of a person 1 being clothed in this Ted or he calls it at home in the body and what's that refer to. Living on Earth in our current body you follow at home in this tent or at home in the body is talking about living here on Earth in our current body Number 2 the 2nd state that he references is being was unclothed or naked or absent from the body each of those refers to sleeping in death while awaiting the resurrection the 3rd possible state that he mentions is being what. Further clothed with our habitation which is from heaven which refers to eternal life in our glorified body and so let's briefly look at it I see your hand let me wait just a moment it will get you so when he says for we who are in this tent groan being burdened he saying living in these aging mortal bodies is hard and we long for something better right that makes sense. Are not enough affirmation my love. Anyway OK the 2nd 1 here not because we want to be noticed when he says not that we want to be unclothed Y. didn't say that we don't want to be unclothed hey they want to read this whole text and ignore entirely that Paul said Well I don't want to be unclothed Oh whatever that means I don't know what that means but to me as are the bodies of the president who are look we have to know what does he mean by that Paul is saying that he does not merely want to die and sleep in the grave and have his body turn to dust that's not why he's saying that he was to be absent from the body what he's wanting is to be present with the Lord but he knows that he will not be until that time now notice the 3rd text but rather close that mortality may be swallowed up by life what's mortality that's death of being subject to death so what Paul really wants is to receive his immortal body and live with Jesus were eternity which he consistently describes as taking place when the dead are resurrected at the 2nd coming of Christ in fact if you read 1st Corinthians 15 later in the passage it uses terminology very similar to mortality being swallowed up by life. Because it says that So when this craft was put on corruption in this mortal has put on our tally then shall be brought to pass the saying that has written Death is swallowed up in victory and then in this passage mortality may be swallowed up by life yes death a swelled up in victory so this moral puts on immortality death is now swallowed up in victory notice this 1 mortality is swallowed up by life when is it that mortality is swallowed up by life when death is swallowed up by victory and that passage says that it's at the last trump when Jesus comes so what you're finding here is that Paul is not looking forward to death itself not because we want to be unclothed he says but to the resurrection of his immortal body further close and in the same way he does not say that he wants to be merely absent from the body meaning unclothed or dead but absent from the body and present with the Lord resurrected he was not looking forward to death but he did understand that death would mean that his next conscious thought would be to awake to the resurrection of his immortal body the 2nd coming of Jesus so Paul is describing 3 different states and he's not looking forward to death but he is looking forward to what comes after it and he knows his next conscious thought is going to be the resurrection in his new body and by the way when the Apostle Paul talks about his new body that he's so excited about is not because he's looking forward to not having arthritis or wrinkles or whatever that's not but he's I mean he talks about the bodies like Man I really you know grown for that the reason that he's speaking so much so strongly about wanting that new body is because with the new body comes the new nature you know the if we have the flesh as long as we're living in this body it's not just that we will be wrinkle free is that we will no longer be you know all. Attacked by our carnal heart and that's what we're looking forward to that's what Paul was looking forward to so to take this metaphor and to try to say that he's saying to be absent the body is to be present with the Lord is to misread the text he says he desires to be as in the body and to be present with the Lord which means not only does he desire to be dead which he clears up not that I really want to be unclothed but because I know that after I die my next thought is to be present with the Lord that's really what he's saying and that's the only way that you can it's an admittedly the language is confusing but it's the only way you can reconcile the text with the weight of evidence which we must do OK we don't even need to go into the thief on the cross probably but I'll just in brief state that you understand that the punctuation was not in the original. The original manuscripts of the Bible in the in the Greek what's at play for ease of understanding I mean it's it's not wrong to put it in there but it certainly is important for us to understand that it's not part of the inspired text and when we know that then we know that it's possible that it could make something incorrect and so it did yes. It out that's really good. Let's look at the souls on the altar Are you familiar with this verse Revelation Chapter 6. Just rewriting the text here I don't think there's anything beyond that and I need to when he opened the 5th seal I saw under the altar the souls of those who have been slain for the Word of God and for the testimony which they held so they mean to say see up in heaven there are these souls under the altar so Oh I'm sorry I didn't get you brother I'm sorry thank you. And I it depends on the person a little bit for me I'll tell you that when I have a. Range of people. Such as an evangelist meeting which is like a by the bible study in a sense I usually do cover the key objection tags. There may be cases where I feel that someone doesn't need that it's been a lot to absorb and there with me already and I think they'll they'll be sure to ask or whatever but I always get a little concerned that there may be that person who's looking for a hook to hang on and they're like all that and even you know the sort of like yeah maybe sorta like somebody who believe differently than we did not bring up any of the texts that we brought up in the weight of evidence and not needing to deal with him I think we need to deal with at least the main ones you know thief on the cross I usually do also deal with this particular 1 that we just looked at absent from the body. So you don't go need to go through all of them or anything but a couple or few of the main ones yes. Yeah yeah. That's you can't you can't give the explanation with out going to Mary going and seeking to she's is you know I've not yet ascended my father that's part of the comma explanation I don't mean to say that you just talk about the comma I was just trying to be brief but you're absolutely right the main point is you 1st look and show that Jesus did not ascend to heaven that day and we have that in the notes so if you. Need to look at it you can but John 2017 is where 3 days after the. Crucifixion you have Mary talking to Jesus and Jesus says he had not yet ascended to his father so if he hadn't ascended then he certainly couldn't have been in paradise that day and then you go and say well then how do we reconcile this and you go to the com and you can do that or you can show the comma and then prove it with John 20 but either way you have to have John 20 in your explanation you're absolutely right OK let's start with the souls under the altar here. First of all this is in the context of the. The seals and so you've got a lot of symbolic imagery it's a prophetic passage with prophetic symbols in it and the place to go that really this is almost drawn from scripturally is Genesis Chapter 4 where after killing his brother God told Cain the voice of your brother's blood cries out to me from the ground now what was God saying Was there a literal voice coming from bubbling up from the blood on the ground what was he saying. OK what had just happened. Cain killed Abel was it a just killing it was cold murder right and it was an injustice and he's saying Abel cannot speak anymore but the all seeing eye of God does not forget those who are martyred for his his name for righteousness say you saying there will be justice for this you understand so what's happening with these souls under the altar what happened at the altar in the sanctuary altar burnt offering sacrifice What's the sacrifice symbolic of there is this sacrificial death OK which is in essence it says there's these souls under the altar that have been slain for the Word of God What are you what do we call people who are slain for righteousness a Mars so you have these martyrs just like Abel you have these martyrs who are described as being under the altar are there literally like are they they went to heaven but he's keeping them under the altar you know this is ridiculous to think that that they would literally be confined under the altar and he wouldn't even let him out really you know wrestle a longer you know oh man it's crab down here a minute whatever the whole idea is crazy to make this literal because he says Rest a little while longer which almost gives you the sense OK now what he's saying is that they're dead. They're in the grave but their blood cries out other words the god has not forgotten the injustice to his Mars but is not yet fully time for. That justice to be meted out and so they rest a little while longer before ultimately their resurrection and before alternately justice is served so it's in a symbolic passage and it's very clearly a metaphor being taken in a very similar way to what enables blood was in Genesis Chapter 4 yes. That is immaterial right. Yes we're all the martyrs. Yeah right. Here at. Amen man that's too good comments by Pastor Howard today I can even believe. You know what. I'm going to just leave this with you to read I mean basically you can go through we are out of time. I say out of time but I'm going to take about 4 or 5 minutes to do 1 more thing with you but you see the Witch of Endor or passage you see. The whole idea of 1st lessons forward some people say that he brings people with him when he comes back to put them in their bodies you can read an answer on that. And the other ones are not quite as common but you can look at those as well and then there's some things in here that might help you in terms of how to reach the heart on this particular topic and we're going to be bolstering the mark from Mission section the end it's all still a draft but anyway do you think would be helpful to have a full set of doctrines and something like that because Mark Yeah we do to help somebody get it done and I anyway I do want to take this and just point out how you can use with the with the same main points we have for main points right with those same main points we can go through here and I'm going to actually quiz you and yeah the 1st 2 questions in this what warning did God give Adam and Eve about death well you shall surely die and then how did say encounter what God told Adam and Eve You will not surely die these you know in essence are setting the stage for the study I wouldn't spend a significant time on them but then number 3 How are Adam and Eve created OK What key point is that dressing on the look at your hand out and let's make sure you got it which of the key points on the handout would that be addressing number 1 that's right and number 4 is a further. Strengthening of number 1 where it talks about using the same text we had in our hand out and the number 5 are people conscious in death which key point number 3 how about Question 63 How about Question 73 How about question 83 have a question none. 3 You understand I told you earlier that question 3 is really. People sleep they don't go straight to heaven or hell that's what all 5 of those are pointing out so you're just strengthening that point in the middle of this lesson and it helps to know that that's you know really the substantive part of what you're doing then this tends to flip it around a little bit which you know. Not my favorite way to do it but number 10 Do people possess an immortal soul and I are going to keep Point number 2 See I kind of like to say well you know this is how man is created and man is created as a soul but that soul you know what is that soul is not immortal it's mortal and kind of build that foundation and then talk about he doesn't go to Heaven Hell he wrote this lesson so he goes back and touches on the immortality question it's OK you can do it that way but just kind of showing you how things differ a little bit number 11 when do the righteous dead go to heaven that's ultimately again addressing number 3 or number 4 and then number 12 is address number 4 so I'm at the resurrection number 13 is addressing number 4 talking about the resurrection number 14 is dressing number 4 is talking about the resurrection so you see how it compartmentalize it really puts them in a similar order in essence besides a few texts to what we have done right here but it's nice for you to know instead of thinking oh well there's 17 questions in the study guide so I have these 17 points I've got to make it's helpful to know I just KNEW make sure they're getting these 4 points you're saying I'm saying just it's helpful for you to know what are the things that I want to make sure they get and like I said it's even more helpful to know what's the 1 thing I really want that I get and in this it's the dead are asleep they don't go straight to heaven or hell when they die and that's the heart of this particular lesson so. If you understand the key points on a topic like this book when we're done with it it's not so you can sit down with somebody else with the book and give a Bible study with the book it's intent will be so that you have an explanation so that you understand the topic when you understand the topic you can take any Bible study lesson and you'll be able to make sense of it you have to sometimes you know you have to take a little preparation see how you're going to organize. Is it where you're going to put a personal testimony or 2 to bring it to life that kind of thing but you can take any study guide and teach it once you understand it and that's what this will be trying to do and that's what we've really been trying to do in this class not necessarily walk you through exactly how to use and it is written lesson but how to understand the topic so that you can be a little better here OK good this is fun man. This is really fun and I get to do it again in the morning by the way the morning is you know as Pastor Richard Oakville used to say not for wimps. It's the the what on. Health and entertainment and dress practical lifestyle stuff so. It's the 1 that's tough to give right so you want to make sure you understand it from the Bible and not be unclear on it all right let's have prayer together Father in heaven thank you so much for giving us of your spirit understand your words today what are most thankful about is that your word is clear yes there may be texts that are a little bit confusing and hard to understand but the weight of evidence is so abundant that you've left us no reason to doubt the wonderful truth that have been revealed to us and help us Lord to be able to share them with the same passion and conviction in love that we have grown to love the truth ourselves bless the remainder of our evening and can't meeting and bring us back tomorrow all ready and refreshing to study again in Jesus' name amen. 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