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How the Crisis in SDA Church Authority Developed

P. Gerard Damsteegt

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P. Gerard Damsteegt

Associate Professor of Church History at the Seventh-day Adventist Theological Seminary, Andrews University

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  • November 24, 2018
    2:00 PM
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You know this isn't the quote and challenge that we face in church and at the same time. To give me the ability to present it correctly because after the 2015 junk all things people are confused and wrong cite presented from the Bible a spirit of prophecy and people say Yes amen and then the next presenter comes from the Bible the spirit of rosier people say in a man. Why 2 different presentations both all in the Bible to persevere to prophecy and different reactions these concepts and so you can see here how Seaton tries to confuse our church and this is among the scholars. But about to the church members where are we going and. And so when I was working on this 2 weeks ago I noticed that in order for me to present this clearly this is one presentation but then that is committees that have been working on well the Bible in the spirit of prosthesis and so that is another dimension and then another dimension is hey. What do they do with the Spirit of Prophecy Why do the 2 says OK Did John Coltrane's need to be followed and the other one says No I don't write as the field office doesn't need to be followed how are you going to solve this you know so really do this is one presentation out of 4 and if the other ones I may sometimes in the future. But I've built your burden you with it now. Because you won't want to at least you want to be in time for supper home. So how did the crazy authority develop and this is not specifically about women ordination but about if what is at stake is not the unity of the church and keep that in mind even if ordination plays a part in it it is the unity of the church and here is then how the crisis in authority developed. In the late 8960 S. detention began to be focused on the role of women in leadership positions and only that but the indices 970 S. several General Conference commission studied this question from the standpoint of theology ecclesiology which is the doctrine of the church and mission and. You know you would say you know didn't you get some progress but unfortunately there was no progress. This was the 1st really women committees in Mohave in and that was the 1st time when there were about the same amount of men as and women. And. If I if if my wife would give the whole background to this and that are you concerned at set. The cost as a result of this study committee with the exception of $1.00 person one woman everybody agreed on women and ordination basically But how can you call Vedas then to the church at large because the church is not all ready for it so here you get the 1970s the autumn Council of the John conference committee and continued study be given that is what they decide it. Through the theological sound because of the election of women to local church offices which require ordination and that in areas receptive to such actions there be continued the recognition or the appropriateness of appointing women to pastoral evangelistic work so this was a kind of a green light you know lead to school I'm here but slowly. There you get the next year in the $974.00 autumn Council or the general Coffin's committee it reaffirmed sections of the $970.00 action and edit it's of pinion that in the interest of world unity of the church no move be mate in the action of ordaining women to the gospel ministry and the gospel ministry in the documents that means D. or Danes ministry not women just doing gospel work know in the documents that I will present gospel ministry is the ordained leadership of the local church and everywhere else now it was only a few years later that women were basters Babette diocese candidates in the Columbia Union in it and bottom of the statement says because the church no ordains women as local elders the possibility exists now for women to perform. Better since you know. Now my wife wrote in a little later on pushing the brethren how how how how divorce dece this does move that the rays of women that we need to have this position we need to have to position every need to be egalitarianism. Everything should be to say the idea that there is inequality is not good everything should be the same for male and female this idea started out in a frenzy of Lucian as you know any member but this most very very strongly emphasized now you get the 985 General Conference and it hurts here that affirmative action for the involvement of women in the work of the church be a priority and to the press leadership to use that executed influence to Oprah to women all aspects of ministry in the church that do not the coordination and I'm a strong advocate of women in in the ministry of the church but does this include ordination to the cost of ministry that's a different question and today I will not go specifically in the N.L. losses of the Biblical text be due to that or time because it is very very important and then in 1988 Women's Commission my wife was dead one of the involvements for and that also in the March in 1908 and there are you know was also brokers mate you get in 1990 the coffers Indianapolis and here you see all the speakers that want to be there's a stadium there and they wanted to speak on this issue and this issue this and many people don't realize it but that is very very important here it accepted the recommendation or deny a $989.00 and you'll counsel that in view of the will of the white spirit Lek off support for ordination of women to the gospel ministry in the world church. And if you of the possible risk of disunity dissension and diversion from the mission of the church we do not approve of the ordination of women to the gospel ministry yes women can work as evangelists and all kind of the examiner but not as do your dainty leadership of the church that is in charge of the church and that and many people today don't notice and the North American division make all kind of statement yes is it has been approved it has not been approved in 1090. Then in 1905 the joke offerings dealt with the question of variance the North American division to be out of red eaten our people want it whether it's true or not but our people want it and so therefore really in the North American division could give be given the freedom to start ordaining women this is to session denying this request from the North America division that each division has a right to Aurthur authorize the ordination of individuals within a state authority in harmony with established policies in addition where circumstances do know that ended in advisable a division me authorized the ordination of qualified individuals without regards to gender by the unil a female that was the request and sorrow they invited to Ender's university professors took the role therein undoctored your arc Dom sticked of the pro and against abuse or limit ordination and I still remember there was a call from Cairo. But. President fork over and he said you know Don Stick to rediscuss this and we like to have to have a president or someone for him to run against I said you know I don't know what to do because I haven't made up my mind oh yeah but the Blair than feel the D. You're a good candidate and and so you present of the position against So I had to study where they agreed with against or not. And I said you know and I don't think that those issues you know element warns against dividing to plant them in sisters and I don't think that will be good for search he says you know don't worry about it the bread may have prayed about the bread they have decided a you are one OK I said you know and so here I am I presented this and this is the link if you today if you click on this link you go directly to youtube and you see I'm a 20 minute presentation why I don't agree with the North America division. Of course is pretty presentation has not gained me any friends in the North America. Few years has is but you know since 1905 my position at the seminary has been different but anyway you know the Lord is in charge so sure after this you find that of women and begin to be ordained even if the decision of the council decision goes against They started as we were in order late anyway ordination in the Potomac and the south eastern California cauldrons. In September 23 1995 in a sleigh go to church Norman Osborn Kendra all over your company Shell with your date even if the jungle has decided against it they went ahead now in the 22 and general coffins again at the session there was a request for an official secure Church study ordination the junk office administration in former session or its commitment quote to establishing a process to review the subject of ordination and we'll report back to the end you'll counsel during the disc when the old which is a period of 2010 to 2015 so this was the 1st or fish will request to a junk conference we have to study this and here is the task this is an abbreviation of the theology of ordination Study Committee and my wife and I were both the participants in this study committee. It is the the ology of ordination Study Committee the Tosk its membership included Morden Wong and the persons or both genders male or female serving the churches theologians pastors administrators lay persons mostly from the end a D. and A So this is not a representative Committee over the whole world and one of the reasons is dictators can pay for it I mean it is an enormous investment you know to get people bring in from all kinds of parts of the world there and even in a North America those crisis prices and it met for 4 times over a period of 2 years and what are now the results of that study committee. 1st of all the disagreements and he didn't agree with the study committee did not arrive at a consensus regarding a biblical position or Ellen G. White Council on whether or not ministerial ordination shooting male and female we didn't agree with this however the vertically women's Because initially developed people that says ordination is not Biblical and it's Roman Catholic and we shouldn't do that no we did to rescind the high degree of a court concerning a biblical theology ordination it agreed about ordination as practiced in the early church in the New Testament 2 points one that 7 Day Adventists understand ordination in a biblical sense as an action of the church in publicly that witnessing those whom the Lord has called and equipped for local and global ministry so you know so if you are ordained as a pastor by the you are serving here to North America it's accepted the world right and so therefore to North America agrees on women ordination with the rest of the world not you have a problem when those women go to those places so they set you know let us not do this and so but they agreed that ordination is. OK And so the move on 78 with his understanding of the ordination a biblical census as the action of the church in publicly recognizing those whom the Lord has called and they could be for local and global ministry ministry number 2 that vile ordination completes to the church order. It need a core very special qualities to the person what introduces a Kingsley hierarchy within the faith community you know I mean in the Roman Catholic Church if you're deigned you know untouchable. But in the south in a certain ordained minister still can make mistakes can do those things and with ever the Donald drop it over there so hey you don't have a special status symbol to the pastor he is still a human being can make mistakes so that was the did there's to be a we all agree with this so debt could report was presented at the $2014.00 annual Council and this report included a logical and hermeneutical hermeneutic is how you interpret the Bible hermeneutical reasons for conclusions or both sides of the question the committee suggests 3 ways how can we go forward and preserve the unity so we wish but it didn't make a consensus recommendation concerning the practice of ordination is of the administer church so one view was that ordination of women is no biblical not supported in the church another one on the other side of the extreme is yes there is nothing in the Bible that is against women ordination and the middle position of us we don't accept women ordination but in case of emergency she may be your date. Of course that position was an old you know some like it but it cost a lot of confusion in fact all the papers during the 2 years were either for or against and the last. The possibility that you don't ordain except in the emergency was introduced at the very last moment and was never in any papers or discussed about that position and whatever and I noted to many of the several of the Junco his offices were very unhappy because it should never be allowed to be introduced at the very last moment and you can see here vote a vote for what the problem is so the result now what is now the final result of this committee that we spent thousands hundreds of thousands of dollars on and the question becomes now or how to search members will live in harmony a unity unity while acknowledging the presence of different views of the issue of women or nation you have on church one 3rd says no and the 3rd Yes and their 3rd is only emergency I mean that this tender box of conflict you know so that was really not and so when this was presented to deal call friends the concern was again how can we keep our church united with those sleeve use so 2015 of us no solution. And here you have to deal call the session I was going to delegates there and here it is recognizing the importance of this question with respect to understanding the Bible the multi national multicultural nation of the church in his mission and the biblical example of addressing differences they do know that directly involved in the mental believes the general call from 6 secular committee chose to again call for guidance from the global church so the pressure of so much that to set the lid is presented again and let's see what the outcome will be. Now everyone in court papers you know and all the position papers of the of the all Tosk pretty presented they have it all on the Internet everybody could study it is a mother ever but in the final presentation advice stressed by both sides that the decisions in a joke overloads have authority not simply you know another opinion though where the joke was in session makes a decision it has authority and that is very very important 7 they are at a disadvantage in a Steve's decisions as the will of the church and the ones you write affirm this view as follows I have been shown that in that no man's judgments should be so the rendered to the Jetson's of all any man what you see very important. But when the judgment of Joe conference which is the highest authority that God has Earth exercises brave that independence and brave adjustments must not be maintained but surrender to see own abilities you know all together and then to make an adjustment then individual differences need to be surrendered and then the majority will take place and that is in him in harmony with their mates and with them so that is done the reason so demotion then will know the nation that was in the context of church unity you know unity we have to be together together together and sue to split us up where US the unity for with Jesus prayed is vitally important to the witness of the 7 the other Mr Church and its. Whereas the 70 administer it seeks to engage every member in its worldwide mission to make disciples of Jesus Christ among the people from every nation go to ethnicity and whereas the various groups appointed by joke over US and its divisions have carefully studied the Bible and then amazed the ratings with respect to ordination of women and have not of a ft at consensus as to whether the ministerial ordination for women is unilateral affirm or deny it and whereas the 70 of his church affirms that God has ordained that the representative's office church from all parts of the earth when assembled in a joke over in session shall half of thought it easy. Therefore this is the motion after you prayed and the and the delegates were given with all the documents probably a half a year to time after you have prayed here for prayer fully study on ordination from the Bible and the ratings of Ellen night and the reports of the study commissions and after you have carefully considered a should keep it going see the nation or what is best for the church in the fulfillment of its mission it is acceptable for division accepted of committees whatever they are in the world as day may deem it appropriate in their territories to make provision for ordination of women the gospel ministry is that possible is that allowable yes or no and then the vote here and here you see the people in line speaking are speaking and there were so many people that spoke to him it it could never even be. Realised the vote count there was a total of 2360 slee votes yes divisions could go ahead at 977 No 1381 abstaining 5 so it was clearly. Rejected that the request on the North American division it was rejected clearly and the fold would even be more if Eva because there were hundreds or delegates from Africa that did not get a FISA. And were not allowed to enter the state. So this is still the situation after the vote present Wilson mate this appeal I appeal to all of us in this church to put away difference of opinion you may garden opinion but let's be careful how we express it and move ahead we need to humble ourselves before God as be a deck of a night is God's instruction regarding And corporates in session and he quoted that statement below right my friends or my colleagues my fellow church members in this great at a movement now is the time to unify of the the bloodstain Bendit of Jesus Christ and His power not our own power now is the time and I'm very serious about this to unify in the mission of God's church as we move forward to unity I appeal to you heart for calmness and peace. How important this with us to avoid controversy seems diminishing of the church is it stick. Next Wilson shared a quotation from testimonies Volume 9 bass 216 let every believer do his best to prepare the way for the gospel ministry work missionary work that is to be done but let no one enter into controversy it is Satan's objections to keep Christians occupied in controversies among themselves cults workers out to be of one mind one heart bring for the importation of the spirit and believing that God Bill fulfill his work. And so one year later because you know what happen people continue to ignore the actions of the joke of a session so oh there was a bridge if presented a study of church governors governance and unity this study of 7 the other this church policy and its relationship to the unity is for the purpose of guiding the church in relation to policies concerning the ordination ordaining and Glee dense healing of pastors and it focused disagree on the unity and the G.C. working policy and its shows the connection between unity and the joke always work in policy the present policy is the result of a 100 to 50 years of this question is among church leaders from around the world chosen by church members to represent them so what we have is a representative government that all the churches send delegates. The course it is the meetings and in the course it is the meetings are called Loser individuals Josel the unions union people are being chosen and the union people elect joke all those things so you can see here that each one of us has and for its. Measures became policy or only when the majority agreed on them its chief purpose Vos force to unity a mission so you can see here that when something like that becomes a policy it's not one or 2 people but a small group of people know a body world right to select and therefore we have to be careful to reject whatever doesn't agree with us. Now what are the criteria for on a nation said by the world church ever since the 7 the other this church 1st establishes criteria for ordination of ministers in 879 the World Church has set such criteria but since 1930 the general coffers executive committee has delegated to unions responsibility for selecting candidates for ordination based on the committee by the World Church so your newscast select the candidates or approve the candidates but the criteria is said by the World Church and fortune of the Nowadays the unions they do criticism you know we can do it and serve their own standards and as a result of those you need to go ahead be a good image of confusion in the church and what shall you do when people take things in their own hands Shelvey continue to do this what do you do with a young child and if a child continually does a bass. Or do little or no no there is abuse of the children no so what do you do now in the church you have now to develop a policy what are you going to do with those people those unions those coffers of those churches and so the document also mentions that the major departures from the World Church effect starting in 2012 however a few unions have claimed to be developed to set the criteria for ordination disagree guarding the 99 T. shirts 90 Doak over session that allowed not or adult not allowed women to be ordained to the gospel ministry and the decisions in 19052015 or the joke over sessions not to allow variances so sweet times this has been closed. And still they go ahead since the last 2050 joke over session some unions and call his have diverged from the joke overs were a few policy by discontinuing ordinations So some unions it's OK if you can do it get rid of all the other nations. A yet to toss Committee says this is a biblical you know action Jesus did it the Apostles did it and so how can you do as a church do wave adulterers things and commissioning. So let me read this again here since 2015 don't go to session some unions and conferences have diverse from the D.C. working policy by discontinue ordination and commissioning or licensing all new pastors including ministerial licenses and commission to ministers credentials or license to all of pastors in the territory including those who have already been ordained and allowed commissioned or licensed ministers to function as ordained minister diocese years gets quite confused with all those the new and the new thing but it is all introduced to give the women more power to work in those functions and you may have used the word ordination but you use the word commissioning and if commission is needed the same as ordination You got it anyway so you can see here what a struggle does and we really need now to develop something to show stop disco fusion this study emphasizes the world church is a position ordination not just a North American division with the world church it should be based on the Bible as element indicators shortly after the lead mark of 1000 or one the one is ition of the church it makes the case that union Simcoe from Mrs should not do unilaterally depart from Bob has been agreed to by the World Church because what you get then the is just like to lose the means and the in the form churches and the Calvinistic churches you have here the Lutheran Church in Germany the Lutheran Church in the Netherlands the Lutheran Church in Canada the looters all United's separately. And they develop policies according to how they see it can you see here the 70 of those churches in Mexico the seventy's church in France the 70 answers in the distance in Italy and each one with their own program. Re other world shirts and we are united together and the idea in 2015 is we either go united forwards or we don't you stay here. So here you see the document here or for a number of pages and that was done unity a mission procedures in a church that conciliation how can be reconciled those things together document unity a mission procedures in church reconciliation after much prayer consultation and discussion at this photo one. To adopt the following steps of reconciliation with entities that appear to have overlooked or ignored the biblical principles as expressed in the fundamental beliefs voted by actions or the work impulse of the church so here Dan is how we get rid of the unity the units that are going up a go ahead anyway. First we listen and play and then become sold with the wider group then the right pastoral letters if we don't have complicity and then give them a 6 month time. Or discussion even after 6 months of discussion the matter has no beauties of the accepted of officers of the next higher organization she was a pastoral letters encouraging the executive officers and governing body of the entity to lead that organization to be faithful so you can see here that you know how long this process will take then again after 6 months we listen in prayer and then we start the next face over the expense of the ation voter number 2 to the president all those administrative committee to recommend to the $2017.00 annual Council procedures to step procedural steps to be followed in the event at leisure Lucian of the conflict is not achieved the procedure is a dent a fight and a recommendation number one even so come more Jesus So in summary this document sought to provide a pastoral approach involving dialogue and great understanding among those involved and this document was voted by the end your council 169 endorsing it or 24 voted against it. So the 2700 North American executive's committee vote motions and those are 2 motions against this document. And one means by Dr wispy the 1st motion was made bear any reason to see other university and this be state statement read. The attendees of the North American division the union meeting respect fully requested to joke over this provide elder Sandra Roberts. President of the south east and California coffers the same rate rights respects and privileges of of office as any other conference President did in North America division who has been duly elected by an official and legal constituency meeting that or that governs you see when they elected that woman as a president of southeastern California where the joke goes to they didn't list her name in the yearbook so President blank of course debt Dosser opposite the North American vision greatly serious are we have not is not in harmony with our decision vote and so that is what he mate with be made and then the next vote the 2nd motion involved brought forth day Randy Roberts senior pastor of the Loma Linda University 77 search this but he said it reach 70 atmospheres exist to proclaim the gospel of Jesus Christ as expressed in the 33 angels messages nothing shoot in Pete this prophetic mission and he continued it is does with grave concern that the members of the North American division executive committee witnessed the passing of the unity emission document at the recent annual Council the implementation of this document bill create indeed is already creating a profound division and demoralizing reality in many parts of the North American division. So get rid of this after discussion period the delegates voted by electronic device 163 yes we protest against this 35 no. One abstention so you can see here the vast majority here or North America they'd like of that all and they rejected this so do next year then. Them coves and your council so now Dounia duty had more defined exactly the steps how we can bring this into compliance and oh oh no no no this the vase of problems that the document lost procedures for reconciliation adherents in the church governance face to the somebody is the document outlays descent into space of a process of reconciliation voted during last year's annual Council which is $2016.00 that sought to initiate standard procedures for maintaining church unity in matters involving complains What are you going to do with those who don't listen and don't appreciate for the church has done OK here this it describes noncompliance voted to Dealy means and the result of noncompliance and the document differentiates no complaint practicals into the categories the creators the committees that deal with this one is those who disagree with the fundamental beliefs now you can say yeah but you know every officers you know would would agree with this not so friends so they have a special unity for this category to the voting actions of the joke office a session which was also 220-2050 or better joke over 6 active committee which if not implemented would create would adversely impact church unity that's another group. And finally. See policies initiate actions and practices that local that are local in nature and not in violation of what actions foetid in-joke over sessions and would in not impact the church unity so you can have groups of people that don't don't agree with this but it is not a major problem so resolution of noncompliance but do we have to do office as a minister ages must be in harmony with the D.C. work and policy so how do you get them to agree with this how do you know that the agree with this those who show inability or unwillingness to administer their work in harmony with the policy should not be continued in the executive leadership budget here suspect if constituency or governing board of committees so that is basically you be discontinued and whatever and the roster civically the group for Category number 2 those who disagree with the. Session actions OK those who are not in compliance with those who don't the recognize it what do you do with those. Now normally you know you have to dig close that indeed voting you don't have any financial conflict but now in addition to the standard financial conflict of interest statement each scoffers executive committee member will be asked to a statement of commitment regarding joke over sessions actions you call his executive committee actions and joke over his working policy and a sacred spiritual cluster of leadership those a you had to sign. And if you don't sign the document for whatever reason you will forfeit the privileges of voice vote and super committee participation so you're quiet but you have every one of those committees have to sign a statement and I tell you you know and I know it because you know in the seminary sometimes the most of things would be wrong to know what you believe in a seminary please will use scientists statement and there was a tremendous uproar we are of God You have to trust us trust us do you believe it is what he said. And so here was it was also here so here and the same rules apply to him B.T.S. to the end all Council and the delegates to deal covers each round after saying that if you don't say it you will have no participation. This document with the voice of a 184 YES AND 140 well know the document went back to the unity of mission an oversight committee for division the vote on the revised document will take place on the council 2018 so an adverse that document Shelvey accept or not know it was rejected or sent back to the committee because we don't want to have anything to have that we have to sign things so it wind back. Now you get then does year the $2800.00 young Congress and your council the document devotion of the document now regard for we have to the GART for and practice of the joke overseas in session and the junk office expected of committee actions the main point. It started out with Appeal make every effort to keep the unity and the spirits to the board of peace if Egypt for the 1st 3 and then we are coming to a time when more than ever before we shall need to press together to walk to labor unitedly in union there is strength this was a statement of the 2nd voyage of selected messages Beijing's $376.00 the A C $34.00 OK How are you now going through the poor the perceived noncompliance and the tests to do with the organization close to do better so what they decided to do to follow met you 18 if you see stings right it sounds spell it out and it has to do with the one who is closest So again it is not hierarchial for president real so take your new conference do something about it no from the lowest up see here of course a takes more time but that his spot was done and so the organization closest to the matter and then the process of addressing perceived compliance write it down spell it out but spread out again in dialogue proof to clearly a written statement defining the perceived complains because we may perceive something but mean and be true so we really bend backwards and then we show it to the non-compliant or say is this what you do. Then apology see even the written statement. Provides 60 days for the executive officers of the perceived noncompliance unity to provide evidence of compliance or a plan how to achieve. So I mean they are very merciful I wish. OK the next one has then create a supportive atmosphere by research to achieve compliance and unity and provide a reasonable time frame given the known 30 days. To provide evidence of new complaints or plan to achieve the stink by story verse to give them 6 months. One annoyance 60 days and no you give them 30 days again. And so didn't and if that doesn't work out and if they are relieved from the position they can appeal process of appeal. Then the process of individuals must to get the codes into great detail of whatever and then the disciplinary measures in the event the due process referenced above does not bring about compliance is duly elected leader may be subject to the following disciplinary measures 1st they get their warning but the warning is studio institution not to the person Secondly a public or commence that will be published and that is to the president or to the organization or to the administrative leadership and if that doesn't work then he's placed or remove all $4.00 costs that is sufficient cost by you $2.00 thirds majority of vote subject to policy appear case that is now in the bylaws so you can see here that this has been very very mild. And SR and time and time again will be given how to put your house in order for it to approve the document regard for him practice or joke over a session and joke over his executive committee actions so the count of the secret ballot falls now as follows yes 185 No 124 abstain too so this now is policy and every division and every union of either had to comply with this so now the the concern now that people have seen 0 in the North American division is the reaction of the North American division he it isn't a cartoon and there is a. You know the golden statue and then there's this 3 were worth peace there one is or one union industry unions that Donald complained and says. Sister will you surrender Yes he will give you know the last chance to bow down to the graven image so here is the North American division response to D.M. the Council vote and so does goes on they've ever 6 opposition in response to the document quoted in a 2080 Juncus Council now we have seen that the other ones are in harmony with the Bible is a Spirit of Prophecy with the councils and with ever what is now the response of North America we recognize Christ says D. head of the church let me agree with that. We have got it interesting here by the Bible as their only create the Holy Spirit to aspire to and interprets it the writings of Ellen shines the light on that and the resulting Spirit of Christ forbearance so everything that the world few set and the world that we go by the Bible spirit of prophecy and commit all kind of evidence they cited against it you can see how church members get confused so. We reckon we are compelled to reject the spirit and direction or this or document voted as it is not consistent with biblical model of church so is discipline not a part of the by. See and hear that it is not in harmony with us we simply cannot in good conscience support or participate in the implementation of the process out I do document as this call to duty to Colts year of inspect and in color they should be taught in the Bible we believe that the document moves us away from the Biblical value proclaim it across on the former's show is that I can see that this isn't the way from the cross and the former and in the founders of the 7 The administer church and in so doing movies Stuart and centralize power and hierarchical system of governance that overrides the policies and procedures of any in place and you said met your 2818 you begin this and then the organization closest to it and quote of course and finally you come back to top how Rocker's thing is you start from the top and go down down down down down. Anyway this is the result of 3 years over working to bring compliance many people to be a race dinner time. But anyway 5 the final thing here we are alone out there in this document church policy and voted actions are equated with Scripture but what he had seen is that the actions the policy to develop came from Scripture we also are deeply concerned by the use of shame as a punitive measure because it is a violation of the spirit of the gospel so it's discipline as it is spelt out. You know is that in contrast to the Gospel again the document Morse's away from the principles behind in 1990 S. the are you going to zation doorbell and night was decentralizes denominational authority and it can have a whole presentation that also divorcing over objection is in alignment with the $877.00 joke over his vote action which allows for questioning any joke over his vote shown into conflict with the Word of God and the rights of an individual conscience so that is again an objection now invited response to an $888.00 joke over in session voted that C.S. counseled against later wrote it was not late for the call friends to pass it it was not in goats order that and that is illusion and these resolutions bill fall powerless on the grounds I shall not sustain Adela my service for I would not be found working against Scott this is not God's way of working I will not give Congress for a moment. And I have one presentation that the you would like to see and that is the word General Conference. Now and I sometimes criticize Joan conference which is a group of 345 people or Djoko has been it is a smaller session and Joe Cole has been it is world right and every one of those statements you have to look in its context and what do North American division is doing this seems all wish to apply it to the world field which is incorrect and so if you don't know this information you say yes it's true Still we can question the jungle because question is so that is it and when she says that joke of says Authority is not the small group of a couple of people but it is the whole world feels representations of all the world feels. OK We believe the church should take heat of the scone So at this moment of our history requests for action we respectfully requests in the later of Jesus' prayer for unity in John 17 and in harmony with the call for the unity in the body of Christ in fundamental believe number 14 that a joke over is executed committee at the 2019 a new council rescind the action proving the document approving the document we respectfully request that a 2001000 and your council the very says any policy that enable majority fields to dictate the management of no doctrinal no Biblical issues to minority feels 1st could in just 1226 and create policies that protect the interest of minority. You see here is a dead is not a democracy we should have ballads we should be consulted Yes. We respectfully request there's an item to be placed on the 2020 Joe call from session agenda calling for a statement by the world church one that affirms our shared respect for the richness and variety of multiple cultures and practices in which we minister and secondly empower ministry that is sensitive to the local context see so our culture our Called took the monstrous well before that even the Tosk Study Committee clearly indicated that it is Biblical and they said no and this goes against our conscience now if you read about a very carefully you look a new research on the word conscience and the boss says you can have a 6 year conscience. You can choose maybe not at all be in harmony with the Bible so that is very very important it is our sincere hope that the future will be characterized by continual prayer and open dialogue empowered by him was able to do far more abundantly and that all the schools think. And so here then is that response and the related articles. You can get here from the. From all the documents so this is then the challenge that we have where you have served positions each claims the Bible and spirit of prophecy in its favor and so to focus now in this how do we interpret the Bible hermeneutics and if you have the correct Biblical interpretation then we should have the same view. And I have a presentation where we deal with the. Biblical historical view. And the principle based Colts are old historical view and this is a new approach to the Bible that has been introduced by the North American division and they feel that the it all to accept it why can we not have one simple system of interpretation the biblical historical approach grammatical mistress' to the Bible the North American divisions as yes that is good for most of them but when it comes to a very difficult issue like an L. This should be your husband of one wife if we don't know this we need to have the other. Approach when you miss. And the whole New have approached it we have to introduce to our church because then we can understand that the really good husband of all right if can be and the standards a spouse of a spouse whatever the Bible friends and they bring This is a whole other presentation but if you choose how to interview the very. OK friends this is the end of my presentation. This media was brought to you by audio 1st a website dedicated to spreading God's word through free sermon audio and much more if you would like to know more about audio verse or if you would like to listen to more service believe it is a W.W.W. audio verse or.

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