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4. Confusion on Ecclesiology and Church Authority

Norman McNulty


Norman McNulty

Neurologist at Southern Tennessee Regional Health System, Lawrenceburg, TN



  • December 31, 2018
    10:45 AM
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This message was presented at the G Y C T V And in Houston Texas for other resources like this visit us online and she Y.C. Web. Good morning again everyone. Let's have a word of prayer as we begin our 4th such an together so let's buy our heads for a word of prayer Father in heaven we thank you for this opportunity to be here at G Y C. And we thank you for this opportunity to reflect on what really is true through this time and I pray that you would guide us now through this next hour as we consider the authority that you have delegated to your appropriate bodies here on this earth may we be willing to submit to you this is my prayer in Jesus' name. So the title for this presentation is confusion on a CLI's Eola Jian church authorities in other words confusion on the theology of the church and church authority you do realize that the Bible does teach a theology of church and church organization and that God has delegated authority to his church here on this earth and one of the things that we see as a problem is that especially in our modern day and society people do not like the idea of submission. And people like to fight for their own rights for individual conscience and it's become a matter of confusion among a lot of different people so we're going to go through a few ideas to try to come to a better understanding of what's happening in the church today you know Revelation Chapter 1217 clearly identifies the 7th Day Adventist Church as God's in time remnant church they're the only church on earth that keeps the commandments of God and as the testimony of Jesus Christ which is the Spirit of Prophecy you know why has this amazing statement and publishing ministry page 309 it is a certain that we have the truth is that God was Isn't that amazing it is us certain that we have the truth as that God lives and Satan with all his arts and hellish power cannot change the truth of God into a lie while the great adversary will try as most to make of not effect the Word of God Truth must go forth as a lamp that burn as so this church our church is the church that has the truth the certain is that God lives. Actually the Apostles page 12 as during ages of spiritual darkness the Church of God has been as a city and a whole from age to age 3 successive generations the pure doctrines of heaven have been unfolding within its borders and feeble defective as it may appear the church is the one object upon which God bless those in a special sense his supreme regard is the theater of his grace in which he delights to reveal his power to transform hearts now the reality is in the book of Hebrews tells us that is that everything that can be shaken will be shaken and you know interestingly Sometimes this is one must Christ says to his lukewarm adding this if you don't repent. If you stay lukewarm I will vomit you out of my mouth in other words you will be taken out of the body of Christ's. And so there is a shaking that is coming to Adam to them earlier writings page $270.00 says I as the meaning of the shaking I had seen and was shown that it would be caused by the straight testimony called forth by the counsel of the true witness to the Laodiceans this will have its effect upon the heart of the receiver and will lead him to exalt the Standard and Poor forth the street truths some will not bear this testimony they will rise up against and this is what will cause a shaking among God's people so if your Church is opposed to the preaching of the prophetic message that identifies areas in the church that need to come up higher that's going to lead to conflict because some don't want to hear the straight testimony from Jesus who is the faithful and true witness saw that the testimony of the true witness has not been his half heeded the solemn testimony upon which the destiny of the church hangs has been Whitely esteemed if not entirely disregarded this testimony must work deep repentance all who truly receive it will obey it and be purified. Now let me just say a few things to you the way the 7th Avenue us Church as of as it appears right now is not how it will be on the other side of the shaking and when Jesus comes if we're honest with ourselves we are really sick church right now. And the reason I say that is that Jesus says you make me wanna throw up. We're a 6 Church. And we can't act like everything is OK when it's not OK. There are some serious problems in the 7th Day Adventist Church right now and I say this as someone who loves this church with all of my heart I've grown up in this church from the time I was born and I've made my own decision to be a 7th Day Adventists. For time and eternity told Jesus comes I am a 7th day out in this I believe that this is God's church but the way this church is right now it's a sick church we have schools teaching Darwinian evolution under the guise of academic freedom. We have schools that are creating L G B T support groups on campus not to help them understand the Bible and lead them to Christ but to encourage them in their lifestyle. We have unions and an entire division or more standing up to the authority of the General Conference. We are facing the greatest crisis yet in the history of the 7th in this church there's been other crises that have come before some of them perhaps are still on resolved but this crisis is that we are facing right now is a crisis the soup to date we have not seen of such a great magnitude. The one thing that makes me hopeful is the prophet that we believe in so that this was going to happen right. So we do not know exactly how this will all play out and that's what can be unsettling the comforting fact is that we have been told that the ship will go through now if so what that message is Volume 2 page 380 the church may appear is about to fall but it does not fall. It remains while the sinners in Zion will be sifted out the chaff separated from the precious wheat This is a terrible ordeal but nevertheless it must take place none but those who have been overcoming by the blood of the Lamb and the word of their testimony will be found with a loyal and true without spot or stain of sin without guile in their mouths we must be diverse that of our self righteousness and a raid and the righteousness of Christ no notice the church may appear as about to fall but it does not and here's the thing some people say I'm so fed up with the church I'm out of here I'm going to start a peer a church but work the the righteous will remain while the centers in the design will be sifted out it's carnal thinking to sift your self out of the Body of Christ and listen to all the good people left the body of Christ we would be in a really bad state place today and for that reason alone but also because at the end it's going to be the sinners in Zion who will be sifted out so please don't tell me that there is a visible church at an end visible church because this is a visible action that takes place where the sinners in Zion are sifted out while the righteous remain that's something that can be seen it's not an invisible thing and we're told that it is a terrible ordeal Nevertheless it must take place you know sometimes we're somewhat conflict verse and we don't like to engage in conflict and yet the reality is that God needs spiritual warriors who are willing to stand up for what's right during this terrible ordeal and those only those who will stand are those who are overcoming by the blood of the land now the story of redemption how do we have a rebellion in the church. Story of redemption page 15 there was contention among the angels a Lucifer and his sympathizers were striving to reform the government of God So get this they were just trying to make heaven better. I mean they were there to turn into demons their goal was not to become the demons of the universe their goal was to make the government of God better there are some things that could be improved upon they were discontented and unhappy because they could not look into his unsearchable wisdom and ascertain his purposes and exulting as son and endowing him with such on limited power and command they rebelled against the authority of the Son. Which is why I talked about this yesterday you see the same spirit in the anti Trinitarian movement where when you make the son was the father that's rebelling against the authority of the son who is equal with God. And so Lucifer was trying to reform the government of going on and he rebelled against the authority of the Son Now interestingly Illinois has a statement this is circle selected messages Volume 2 page 393 page Flybe and she says I question whether genuine rebellion is ever curable. Boy once you get it in your mind that you are doing a work of reform of reform you're the Martin Luther of them and you're going to nail your $95.00 theses on the wall and you are standing for the right here I stand I can do no other but you're actually being a rebel it's hard to stop thinking that way and I was as I question whether genuine genuine rebellion is ever curable study in patriarchs and prophets the rebellion of Korah day thin and A by room this rebellion was extended including more than 2 men it was led by Chou $150.00 princes of the congregation men of renown these were leaders of Israel not just low level lay people these were leaders in the Israel that were part of this rebellion call rebellion by its right name and apostasy by its right name and then consider that the experience of the ancient people of God with all its objectionable features was faithfully chronicled to pass in the history of the Scriptures the Scripture declares these things are written for our admonition upon him the ends of the world are come and if men and women who have the knowledge of the truth are so far separated from their great leader that they will take the great leader of apostasy and name him Christ Our Righteousness it is because they have not sunk deep into the minds of the truth they are not able to distinguish the precious or from the base metal this is an amazing statement she says that there are people in the church you separate from Christ and they join in the spirit of the great leader of apostasy and they name Lucifer Christ or righteousness. While. There is something to be so. For not submitting to the authority of Christ and then claiming that you're still following him. Letter 151892 the history of the rebellion of death and on the buyer and is being repeated and will be repeated till the close of time who will be on the Lord's side who will be deceived in their turn become deceivers Now let's look at this rebellion of chordate and on the barren we find in the Bible in Numbers Chapter $16.17 there is an entire chapter in patriarchs on prophets pages 395 to 4 or 5 dedicated shoed discussing this rebellion Cora was the ringleader in death and on the Byron conspired with him and Cora was actually a cousin of Moses and Aaron so he was family and so sometimes even in the church family members find themselves on opposite sides of what's happening today. Now what we see from this rebellion is that it was a deep laid plot and conspiracy against God's appointed leader the disaffect they were disaffected that they could not go into the promised land and they blame to Moses for leading them to die in the wilderness so he could be a prince over them so there is this disaffection This is after the spies are come back with an evil report and so God says you're going to spend 40 years in the wilderness one day for each year that you spent spying out the land. So proverbs pitchers and prophets 306 gets into this issue professing great interest in the prosperity of the people they 1st whisper their discontent to one another and then to the leading men of Israel their insinuations were so readily received that they ventured still further and at last they really believe themselves to be actuated by his eels for God so be careful when you hear even leaders in the church who be it claim to be professing zeal for the Cause of God If you have a zeal for the Cause of God supposedly but you're not willing to submit to his delegated authority that should call into question your motives and so there's this interest in the prosperity of the people and then the next page previous church and prophet 397 says they were successful in alienating tew 150 princes men of renown in the congregation with these strong and influential supporters they felt confident of making a radical change in the government and greatly improving upon the administration of Moses and Aaron and jealousy had given rise to envy and envy to rebellion now notice Lucifer wanted to reform the government of God Cor a day thin and a buyer and wanted to improve upon the government of Israel and God was their leader and he had delegated authority to Moses and so now they are in rebellion to the work of gum now a pitcher is in progress. $397.00 goes on to say the next work of the conspirators was with the people so those who are in the wrong and deserving of reproof there is nothing more pleasing than to receive sympathy and praise and thus Kora and his associates gained the attention and the most of the support of the congregation the charge that the murmurings of the people had brought upon them the wrath of God was the clear to be a mistake and if you notice careful if you look in the atmosphere today there are classes in the church all my tells is that 2 parties will be developed that we and the tears will grow together until the harvest and I'm one class there is this this tendency towards worldliness people who are lowering the standards Hey what's wrong with having coffee for a church that will bring more people from the community to come to our church on Sunday morning so let's do coffee and donuts and then we're having movie NA and we're starting to wear jewelry and all sorts of stuff and so these people are like HE Yes you what's happening the church now when they see this the vision taking place they're saying these leaders speak for me I'm so glad that there's leaders in the church who don't judge me for what I'm doing and so you have these 2 different approaches within the church and so you have those you don't reprove they don't. Call people out for going against the clearly revealed will of God and so they go on to say chordate and they said that the congregation were not at fault since they desired nothing more than their rights but that Moses was an overbearing ruler that he had reproved the people of centers when they were a holy people and the Lord was among them in other words look if you're declared righteous I'm covered by is righteousness even if you kill you keep sending You're a holy people don't worry about it a false gospel will always lead to rebellion. Pitchforks and prophets 390 in this work of disaffection there was a greater union and harmony among the discordant elements of the congregation than had ever before existed chorused success with the people increase this confidence and confirmed him and his belief that the user patient of authority by Moses if unchecked would be fatal to the liberties of Israel the church is violating my conscience I'm going to use my conscience to stand up to this authority of the church he also claim that God opened the matter to him and had authorized him to make a change in the government before it should be too late so here's what we see Corra days on the Byron bring the rebellion out into the open once they have enough support Moses had not suspected this plot and it was clear that the majority of the congregation had some pathy with the rebellion because hey maybe we still can go on to the Promised Land Now this next statement is from preachers and prophets $399.00 Moses hoping that dates on a buyer him aren't so far gone as core so the statement says they've been on the bottom and not taken so bold a stand as a core and Moses hoping that they might have been drawn into the conspiracy without having become holy corrupted some of them to appear before him that he might hear their charges against them but they would not come and they in some Whatley refuse to acknowledge as authority their reply uttered in the hearing of the congregation was is it a small thing you have brought us up out of a land that flow with with milk and honey to kill us in the wilderness are you kidding me so they were in slavery and God says I'm going to take you and take you to a land flowing with milk and honey and they're saying our land of bondage was a land flowing with milk and honey. This world that we live in is a good world people are good we just need to be part of the community why do we have to be so distinct. And there like is a small thing to kill us in the wilderness except I'll make myself altogether a Prince of Earth moreover that has not brought us into a land that flows with milk and honey or give us us given us and harridans a field in vineyards well thought out the eyes of these men we will not come up in other words we haven't gone to heaven yet we've been preaching that Jesus has been coming since 844 and we're still here why are we talking about heaven we need to focus on just what we're doing here on this earth so those they apply to the scene of their bondage the very language in which the Lord had described the promised inheritance you know the Bible says In 1st Samuel 1523 for rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft and stubbornness is as wickedness and idolatry you know I said this yesterday about people who are into fanaticism such as you know the 2520 or anti Trinitarianism or fees keeping or things of that nature date setting that probation going to close for adding this and 2019 and you try to reason with them and it's like trying to reason with a young person who's in love with someone they shouldn't be you can't reason with them and when people are in rebellion and they are convinced that they are in the right you can't reason with them they're like under this be which in influence Cora days and in the Biram and all their families were swallowed up the earth opened up and Moses said if these men die a natural death God doesn't spoken why me but if God does a new thing you will know that the Lord is spoken by me and they are swallowed up and then the 250 men of renown they witness the death of Korra days on the Biram and then they were devoured by fire what was the reaction from the congregation the next day he would have killed the people of the Lord really. They got swallowed up supernaturally em burned by fire and you're going to say you have killed the people of the Lord that's why Ellen White says I question whether genuine rebellion is ever curable God can bring fire down from heaven and you still think those are the people of the Lord. When your heart is set in rebellion even supernatural manifestations will not convince you to follow the way of truth so the people speaking of the people pitchforks and prophets for a one they have been flattered by Cora and his company until they really believe themselves to be very good people and that they have been wronged in abuse by Moses should they admit that Koran is company were wrong and Moses right then they would be compelled to receive as the Word of God the sentence that they must die in the wilderness they were not willing to submit to this so again you see with the rebellion comes a lack of submission and they tried to believe that Moses had deceived them they had fallen the hope that a new order of things would it was about to be established in which praise would be substituted for reproof and ease for anxiety and conflict the men who had perished had spoken fluttering words and had professed great interest in love for them and the people concluded that Cora and his companions must have been good men and that Moses had by some means been the cause of their destruction. I noticed the this is pitchforks and profits for 3 in the rebellion of course is seen the working out upon a narrower stage of the same spirit that led to the rebellion of Satan and heaven it was pride and ambition that prompted Lucifer to complain of the government of God and to seek to overthrow of the order which had been established census fall it has been his object to infuse the same spirit of envy and discontent the same ambition for position and honor into the minds of men he thus worked upon the minds of Korra death and on the Biram to arouse the desire for self exaltation and excite envy distrust and rebellion now listen to the Satan caused them to reject God as their leader by rejecting the man of God the point none now people will say oh Christ is the only head of the church he's the only one I'm going to submit to you but if you don't submit to his delegated authority within the church you are rejecting him also. They rejected the men of God's appointment and that thus the meant that they rejected God as their leader you can't say that you're following God when you refuse to submit to the authority that he has delegated here on this earth. Now interestingly the book of Jude kind of talks about rebellion as well we see this false gospel in verses 3 and 4 that turn the grace of God into lasciviousness and there are certain men who creep in unawares who churn the gospel into a false gospel those who refuse to submit to God and the true Gospel rebel against God and we see the illustration Jude verse 5 says the children of Israel were destroyed for those who did not believe Jude versus verse 6 that says the fallen angels of the glory of heaven because they wouldn't submit to Christ are now waiting for the day of judgment Jude verse 11 came Bayle among poor There we see Cora again all of them refuse to submit to the authority of God Cain wouldn't submit to the true way of worship Baylen would not submit to God's voice in trying to pronounce a curse on Israel in Corinth would not submit to Moses as the true leader the false gospel where the grace of God is turned into the seriousness in other words the grace of God gives us license the Sun God will cover me while I keep sending So if he covers me while I'm still standing does it really matter if I don't submit to the authority that God has placed over me. So false gospel leads to rebellion against God. So let's look at an application Couper would was dissatisfied with the delay into the promised land he led a rebellion against the leaders of God The point that he turned God's people against the government and order of God. And he was successful in getting a majority of the congregation to have sympathy towards his words just because you're in the majority doesn't necessarily mean you're riding or vice versa are you following the Word of the Lord. Now notice what manuscript for $883.00 is a vandalism $696.00 as for 40 years did unbelief murmuring and rebellion shut out ancient Israel from the land of Canaan Now look at this the same sins have delayed the entrance of modern Israel into the heavenly Canaan and people say oh we can't do anything to hasten the coming of Christ will if we can delay it why couldn't we hasten it and we've delayed it by having the same sins as ancient Israel and that is unbelief murmuring and rebellion in the same sense have delayed the entrance of modern Israel into the heavenly canon and neither case where the promises of God of all it is the unbelief the worldliness on consecration and strife among the Lords professed people that have kept us in this world of sin and sorrow so many years worldliness on consecration unbelief strife among the Lord's people that have kept us in this world of sin and sorrow for so many years don't blame the Lord for the delay that's our fault Now notice this next statement letter 184-1901 of animals and 696 we may have to remain here in this world because of insubordination many more years as did the children of Israel you know what insubordination US refusal submit to submit to the authority that God has placed in this church oh I'm not going to subordinate myself to that. I have an individual conscience. We may have to remain here in this world because of insubordination many more years as did the children of Israel but for Christ's sake his people should not Adson the sin by charging God with the consequence of their own wrong course of action. Now here's some things I want you to think about as we look at the current issues Satan's core issue in the great controversy is is this content with Christ's authority it all started in heaven with Satan's discontent for the authority of Christ some of the major heresies happening today all circulate around undermining God's authority and or his delegated sources of authority anti Trinitarians to denigrate Christ and the Holy Spirit's authority by claiming that they are less than what they really are because both are God. Gender Equality destroys the biblical model in the home not by the Web believe that men and women are equal but I do not believe in the feminism movement that destroys the order of authority in the home gender equality destroys the biblical model in the home where the husband is the head of the fusions 523 says the Christ delegated authority in the home is the steroid and as well in why it says in Testimony Volume one page $457.00 those who feel called out to join the movement in favor of women's rights in the so-called dress reform might as well sever all connection with the 3rd Angel's months of the spirit which attends the one cannot be in harmony with the other the scriptures are plain upon the relations and rights of men and women if you see that the scriptures are plain. So I want to say as the husband is the head of the wife and the that if a man desires the office of a bishop he desires a good work because if he can't rule his end but if he can't rule his own house well how can he take care of the Church of God and yet the husband of the head of the wife and how could he not be the head of the church because that's a delegated authority crisis delegated the husband of the to be the head in the home and likewise in the church he delegates that men would be the head in the church everyone's equal but they have different roles the scriptures are playing upon the relations and rights of men and women to know why it's as if you feel called out to join the favor the movement and favor of women's rights which is let's just break down all these barriers we're social justice warriors and we're going to say there's no difference let's just all do the same thing you modest will sever all connections with a 3rd angels message. Now some people say but before sin there was no difference between Adam and Eve he was not the head but that's not true counsels the parents teachers and students page 33 says under God Adam was to stand at the head of the earthly family to maintain the principles of the heavenly family this would have brought peace and happiness but the law that none live with himself say it was the term to oppose he desired to live for so if he sought to make himself a center of influence it was this that had incited rebellion in heaven and it was man's acceptance of this principle that brought sin on earth when Adams and man broke away from the heaven ordained center a demon became the central power in the world so God's plan was for Adam to stand at the head of the earthly family even as his equal to stand up decide to be his help me but some people say oh no there was no difference between Adam and Eve actually there was even before the fall. Some further issues so we have this women's ordination noncompliance issue where those who are not in favor of what's been voted of the General Conference are usurping the authority of the General Conference in session in the name of the end of it you will conscience thus rejecting God's highest delegated authority on earth and I'm going to show you some statements about the. So we have this current church crisis how did we get here. Authority in the church testimonies Volume 3 page 492 I've been shown that no man's judgment should be surrendered to the judgment of any one man and if you stop right there are those who are not happy with what's happened so far I would say yes that's what I believe I'm not going to surrender my judgment she says that any one man but when the judgment of the General Conference which is the highest authority that God has upon the earth is exercised private independent some private judgment must not be maintained but be surrendered your error was in persistently maintaining your private judgment of your duty against the voice of the highest authority the Lord has upon the earth. Now some would say oh but Ellen White says she can no longer regard the voice of the General Conference as the voice of God and she has a clarifying statement which I'm going to show you a little bit later which shows that only applied to when 2 or 3 men were making a decision not one of General Conference in session makes a decision. So let's look now at this issue briefly of the General Conference insertion has voted no 3 times on women's ordination 999-995-2015 Let's look briefly what was voted now here's here's the statement that was about a prior to this section there's a state in this as we support the work of women doing ministry and by the way this is a misconception people say the those who are opposed to women's ordination are opposed to women and ministry and and I'm here to say no women are supposed to be in ministry and I do agree that they should be paid equally for the work that they do but they are not to be ordained to a position of authority in the church the way God is that authority so here's what the the motion was in 1990 in view of the widespread lack of support for the ordination of women to the gospel ministry in the world church and in view of the possible risk of disunity dissension and diversion from the mission of the church we do not approve ordination of women of the gospel ministry and that motion was passed by a vote of 11732377 so it had a nearly 76 percent to 24 percent margin that was in 1994 the North American division came along 5 years later and said we realize that much of the world feel doesn't want women's ordination but our division would like for it to happen so we're going to ask the General Conference for a variance within our division so here was the motion that was voted upon in 1905 in Utrecht in the Netherlands and it reads the General Conference of us in each division the right to authorize the ordination of individuals within its territory in harmony with established policy in addition where circumstances do not deem an end advisable a division may authorize the ordination of qualified individuals without regard to gender in the visions where the division executive committee takes specific actions approving the ordination of women to the gospel ministry women may be ordained to serve in the visions so this was then the presented to the delegates on the floor the president of the north of. Merican division Alford C M A clerk at the time spoke for 20 minutes and favor of the motion. Just for full disclosure he is my father in law spoke for 20 minutes against the motion and then Dr roll debtor and retired into the seminary close with a 20 minute presentation in favor of the motion now if you look at the presentations by Dr Dobson Dr debtor and I know Dr Dom's thesis on youtube they were not arguing about whether or not there can be variance within the division the argument was is women's ordination biblical or is it not Biblical So the vote was primarily about the weather and women's ordination is biblical or not Biblical So after those presentations there was debate on the floor for a good word she and the motion failed by a vote of 1481 to 673 nearly 69 percent voted no 31 percent voted yes so the world shirt says no we do not want divisions to go on their own on this issue we want to stay united as a world church and the prevailing opinion from the delegates was we don't believe that women's ordination is a biblical was obviously North American division was very unhappy about that outcome and after 1905 continued to agitate the issue. At the $2000.00 General Conference ocean the request was made from a delegate from the North American division asking that the theology of ordination be studied and so this led to the development of the theology of ordination Study Committee no theology of ordination Study Committee was largely composed of scholars and Bible Students from the North American division so it wasn't necessarily representative of the entire world field but it did reflect some of the prevailing thoughts throughout the world feel. About what. What is thought on this issue now there was one key point of agreement and that is that ordination is Biblical because some people are out there saying now ordination isn't even biblical it's Catholic Well then why design them why you have a chapter in the book desire of ages and title he or danged 12. Now interestingly it was a again my father in law mother and I were on this committee they said that those in favor of women's ordination say we don't accept L N Y as an authority to say that ordination is Biblical but anyway. Ellen why is says he ordained to all of you read it from the Bible itself he or danger 12 and the con the concept of ordination is definitely a Biblical concept and there was consensus among the study committee that word nation is Biblical So if people tell you ordination as Catholics don't buy into that Jesus or dangerous 12 the 12 disciples Now beyond that though there was an agreement there were 3 different views on women's ordination one group so that it's biblical another the 2nd group says it's not as a biblical and then there was what was called the 3rd option and that is that women's ordination is not Biblical but it can still be allowed and they use the history of it is real in asking for a king to say look we can just allow for now let me just say this in brief Do we want to use a model of apostasy as an argument in favor of her motive and idea I'm just trying to be kind and fair here. Because when Israel had a saying God says the Samuel they haven't rejected you they have rejected me but I'm going to let you have a king because you want to and you keep asking for and you keep asking for it and you keep asking for it so fine here have a king and you're going to be sorry for it once you have a king and once they have the king solved ended up being pretty bad now David turned up pretty well other than his incident with Bathsheba and his numbering of the people of Israel but then after David Solomon starts off good and turns off and into a disaster and then you get to re a bow and re a bone comes along and he's a complete disaster in the kingdom becomes divided and when the kingdom becomes divided and the Northern 10 tribes lit off they never had a righteous king and remained in apostasy from that point to the end 83 percent of the tribes were lost permanently so I'm sorry with all due respect let's not use a model of apostasy for God's last the church as an argument in favor of something we're trying to get to the heavenly Kanan let's not go backwards into apostasy to say well it's not Biblical but God allowed for apostasy in Israel so we can allow for apostasy now. We want to follow what the Bible says. So the motion was debated after your purple study on ordination from the Bible the writings of Ellen G. Y. and the reports of the study commissions and after your careful consideration of what is best for the church and the fulfillment of its mission is it acceptable for a division executive committees as they deem it may deem it appropriate in their territories to make provision for the ordination of women to the gospel ministry yes or no this motion was basically created based on the fact that the ordination study committee hadn't reached consensus so they brought it to the world feel that the General Conference in session this motion was the beta for several hours if you were there this only happened 3 and a half years ago so we all could. Either to see what's on line or be there in person to listen and if you listen to the debate it was almost exclusively about whether one's ordination is Biblical there was a little bit on the vision variance but not much the final vote was 1381 no 977 yes it was 58 percent no 41 percent yes and so some of the pointed out that you know look the margin keeps getting smaller and what I would say is you know you've had 20 to 25 years to agitate this issue and the World Church still is saying no. And it's still a pretty decisive margin 1717 percentage point margin is the decisive margin now let's look at well and what it says again testimonies Volume $3492.00 says that the General Conference is the highest authority that God has upon the earth 3 times God has spoken through the highest authority that he has despite that many in the church refuse to accept and are not knowledge of this authority now I will say this and take this for what it's worth it is possible that because some continue to agitate and push for this it's possible that some day the General Conference in session of time should last will vote to authorize this to happen my personal belief is that if it does happen it will be a similar scenario as God saying to Israel fine you want a king have them. I told you no 3 times that was my will and I said 3 times no and you couldn't take no for an answer so I'm going to give you want you want to know I still have faith to believe and hope that God's church will continue to follow what the Bible says and will not allow for that to happen but it is possible that if that were to happen that would be why God would allow for but he said no 3 times no testimonies Volume 9 page 60 this is where along what makes things very clear I have often been instructed by the Lord that no man's judgment should be surrendered to the judgment of any other one man never should the mind of one man or the minds of a few men be regarded as sufficient in wisdom and power to control the work and to say what plans shall be followed so in other words if this was just the president of the General Conference and one or 2 of his associates making a guiding policy for the entire world field that would not be appropriate but this is not what we're referring to when we refer to the authority of the General Conference notice this next paragraph but when in a general conference the judgment of the brother and assembled from all parts of the field is. Private independent some private judgment must not be stubbornly maintained but surrendered never should the laborer regard as a virtue the persistent maintenance of his position of independence contrary to the decision of the general body and friends were saying that in the church right now people are saying mommy rights and my conscience are causing me to go against the voted decision of the world church insertion and we're setting up a papal authority in the church to listen the pope you realize there's a huge difference the pope is invested with authority by the Catholic Church to make policy on his own when he speaks as one man he can do that he has that authority this is not what we're talking about here we're talking about a general conference and such and which is representative of the entire world field. So then she says because people say Oh Will she said that she can't regard the voice of the General Conference any more as the voice of God she says at times when a small group of men interested with a general management of the work have in the name of the General Conference sought to carry along unwise plans and to restrict God's work I have said that I could no longer regard the voice of the General Conference represented by these few men as the voice of God But this is not saying that the decisions of a general conference composed of an assembly of duly appointed representative men from all 4 parts of the field should not be respected God has ordained that the representatives of his church from all parts of the earth when assembled in a general conference shall have authority. And then she goes on to say a few other things but when to General Conference in session with a representative group of delegates makes the decision that decision shall have authority. Now let's make some modern applications God had invested Moses with authority to lead his people God spoke with Moses face to face Moses was invested with divine authority to execute God's will for his people who were rebelled against that authority and stirred up God's people to follow his insubordination. So what's happening now again God as in verse of the General Conference in session with authority to direct in lead his church now we do not have a living prophet like Moses that speaks to God face to face as did Moses but the prophet that God gave us the church says that the General Conference in session is his highest authority on earth thus the General Conference insertion is invested with divine authority to execute God's will for his laws the church the General Conference leadership including the president and the General Conference executive committee are responsible for implementing what is voted at a General Conference and such an eye for its part some people say that the current general conference President is assuming papal authority and he's exercising kingly power and my responses clearly no he's not you want to know what tangly power looks like kingly power would be to say OK our representative decision was made by the World Church but I'm not going to follow that decision I'm going to do what I think suppose that's kingly authority or one man calls the shots the General Conference president is simply carrying out what the world church in session as a representative body made as a decision he's carrying that out that's not kingly authority that's representative authority in it's the General Conference and session that has been invested with the highest authority and then the leadership of the General Conference is the carry out what the session moves. So here we are in our current crisis there are 2 unions in North America along with the some others outside of North America but in 2012 these 2 unions voted to proceed with ordaining without regard to gender now in and of itself that's already problematic because General Conference policy doesn't allow for that but when you say without regard to gender that does open up the door to beyond even men and women if you think about it. Now they have not backed down from their votes the spite being out of harmony with what has been voted at the General Conference in session in 19952015. As a result of the on going on noncompliance the General Conference executive committee voted at the $28000.00 and you will counsel to start a process of dealing with non-compliant entities the passed by a vote of 185 to 124 so nearly 60 percent to 40 percent so slightly higher margin than San Antonia shortly after the annual Council the North American division held its year and meeting at this meeting the president of the North American division said that the North American division would continue to agitate the issue of women's ordination despite the votes by the General Conference they also voted to discuss with the General Conference of coming into financial parity within Syria 3 years they're not happy that they're turning in more thought the G.C. than other divisions and they passed the vote by 57 percent to 43 percent that they want their tie them out to reduce from 6 percent to 2 percent in the Treasure the General Conference was there and he says you're voting based on emotion and there was clearly an element of this vote being taken as a response to dissatisfaction with what has happened at the General Conference. So there's an ongoing crisis here as in the rebellion of course or in into these within the church are refusing to submit to God's delegated authority on earth in Cora's they Moses was God's a point of leader to delegate the authority of God in our day of the General Conference insertion that is God's delegated authority so here's a question why is the General Conference in session the highest authority that God has on Earth Well here's the answer because God can more clearly reveal his will through the voice of the entire world field than he can through one church one conference one union one division or me personally it's this idea that God can more easily lead through us then through me because I make sense. Because there is less opportunity for rig to vote and all of us even though there is going to be some politics and stuff that may go on God still will have control over everything by speaking through a representative body now this idea of submission submission to authority acknowledges that there may be times when submission is required when there is disagreement so submission to authority is not really submission if we say I will only submit if you can show me why I should agree with you it's like OK all do if you can show me why look authority is emplace because sometimes there's a disagreement and the authority has to make a decision that the body needs to follow. Sometimes God doesn't have to explain why some there are some things that we may not fully understand until we get to heaven. Now there's a biblical order of authority because you're not a fusions 521 of the submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God and people use that to say see men submit to women and women submit to want and to Minutes mutual submission that's not what the verse means if you follow all the way down you see this order of authority where children submit to parents children obey your parents in the Lord for this is right wives submit to their husbands that's a fusions 520 the husband is the head of the wife and submits to Christ the Mavs want his wife as Christ loves the church so men lead in the home and in the church that's the biblical order of authority of the husband as the head of the wife in the home and 1st Timothy 3 says that if a man cannot rule his own house well how can he take care of the Church of God So Christ is the head of the church but Christ delegates authority in the church to overseers such as pastors and elders you can see that in 1st Peter 5 verses one into the church is to submit to Christ and his authority and again the highest authority on earth is the General Conference in session but we have a problem with authority many are resisting authority in the church conscience over God's highest authority is really the issue of the crisis or is the name of the game for many today that's why we have this crisis because people are not willing to submit lack of submission in the home and in the church ultimately leads to lack of submission to Christ and His delegated authority now many advocates of this issue you are comparing themselves to Martin Luther and they're comparing the General Conference to the papacy but the. And true reformers are revealed were viewed as rebels back in the Protestant Reformation So they say we're the reformers that are being viewed as rebels however those who sincerely think they are advocates of reform are actually rebels when opposing God's delegated authority. So the Catholic Church was corrupt through and through their system of indulgences where you could buy eternal life by paying for indulgences these are the things that the reformers were speaking out against along with their false understanding of righteousness by faith but this is God's remnant church and we have been given God's truth through this time and God has led this church to its understanding of truth from Scripture and the things that we believe and so when we oppose God's they'll get authority we're not reformers we're rebels so many are calling for unity in the church but they're saying unity and diversity why can't we just allow people to do what they want to do but the only way that unity happens is when all parties recognize and accept their role or place under rightful authority that's the only way that unity can happen oh well think about this unity could have been brought about in heaven only if Lucifer submitted to Christ authority there was no other way we couldn't have OK like oh OK well let's just have unity in diversity in heaven by having Lucifer and angels his angels have their diverse way of doing things over here and Christ on the other angels will be over here let's just all get along no there has to be a submission to authority so the cry of humanity will not submitting to rightful authority is really hypocritical true unity will never occur if we resist being in our place in relation to the rightful authorities that God has placed in our lives. That makes sons. If we're not willing to submit to the rifle authority that God has placed in our lives there's always going to be disunity because there will be a lack of respect for authority and of decisions that are made even when there is disagreement now I'm not calling for CO worship to make people believe something that they don't believe but what I am saying is and I certainly believe there is a biblical truth on this issue but what I am saying is that there has to be a willingness and an understanding of submission the proper Biblical authority or we're never going to be united. So where are we headed selected messages Volume one page 2 of 5 shortly before I sent out the testimonies regarding the efforts of the enemy to under mind the foundation of our faith through the dissemination of seductive theories I had read an incident about a ship in a fog meeting an iceberg for several nights I slept but little I seem to be bowed down as a carbon 8th sheaves one night a scene was clearly presented before me of the soul was upon the waters in a heavy fog suddenly the lookout cried iceberg just ahead their terrorism high above the ship was a gigantic iceberg and authoritative voice cried out need it there was not a moment's hesitation it was a time for instant action the engineer put on full steam and the man at the wheel steered the ship straight into the spring with a crash she struck the ice there was a fearful shock on the iceberg broken in many pieces falling with a noise like thunder to the duck the passengers were violently shaken by the force of the collisions but no lives were lost the vessel was injured but not beyond repair she rebounded from the contact trembling from stem to stern like a living creature then she moved forward on her way well I knew the meaning of this reputable representation I had my orders I had heard the words like a voice from our captain meet it I knew what my duty was and that there was not a moment to lose the time for decided action had come I must without delay obey the command meet it. You know friends sometimes. Were like the prophets hiding in the cave the Obadiah was feeding during the time of Alija it's like I'm just gonna hide and other people deal with this and I'm not going to let my voice be heard in the church but listen Christ needs spiritual warriors who in a crisis like way are going to meet this crisis that is coming and I believe that there are many silent voices who don't want to be known as agitators But listen this is something that happens in the church and I've talked about this with some of my friends you realize that the progressive wing of the church they play the Swonk game of taking over institutions and trying to control policy and to make the church more liberal because they don't necessarily have this belief in an eminent return of Jesus they're just trying to make the church more community focused and seeker sensitive and whatever the case may be conservatives believe that Jesus is coming in 5 years so I don't need to put my efforts into the institution of the church I can just kind of do my own thing and so the Liberals have taken over here that's what's happened and we're not willing to fight the good fight of faith and there are there is a need a desperate need for God's people to meet this crisis without delay. So what did message was volume 2 page 380 the church may appear is about to fall but it does not fall it remains while the sinners in Zion will be sifted out the chaff separated from the precious wheat This is a terrible ordeal but nevertheless it must take place on earth this and this is the difference between the false gospel and the true Gospel which we're going to talk about in our last session this afternoon numb but those who have been overcome and by the blood of the Lamb and the word of their testimony will be found with a loyal and true without spot or stain of sun without guile in their mouths so when the church appears as about of all those who go through and remain are the overcomers. And then education page 57 this is as we're wrapping up here the greatest want of the world is the want of money and then he will not be bought or sold men who are in there and most souls are true and honest men who do not fear to call son by its right name men whose conscience is this true to duty is the need of the poll men who will stand for the right though the heavens fall where are those people in the church today. Are we hiding behind a fear of being way bold when there is a need for people in the church to stand up for Israel for what is right just remember we the people are the church we have a voice in the church and I know people who they don't want to go to constituency session they just want to stay home and oh you can go and people are willing to become invested they were involved she make sure that the church stays on the path that God has appointed it to be so here's my final appeal stay with the church don't leave now is the time that we need people to especially make their voices heard make your voice heard. Stop making excuses for saying well it's not my place to speak up you know I've had to be and situations and board meetings where apostasy was being sanctioned where I was the only voice that was willing to speak up against something and if that's the case so be it be that person to make your voice or. Like I said earlier we have too many silent members hiding in the caves like Obadiah as prophets were allies or is the prophet who gives the Muslims and then after he gives the Muslims everywhere he goes off into hiding when the message is given with clarity and when God starts to move in his church the way he did with a lot that's not the time to go hiding in the caves that's the time the time to mobilize an army chief speak for what is right you know this whole issue of authority is also so inconsistent it's amazing to me so you have entities that won't submit to the authority of the world church but there is a territory somewhere here in North America right now who doesn't want it's only members who have organized to speak in favor of the world sure they're saying you can't promote your ideology in favor of the world sure it's because it's too divisive for charity territory and we're going to use our authority to keep your voice silent so we have authority and we're going to exercise about we won't submit to the authority of of us. I mean we have reached a point of. Of serious confusion and crisis and God needs people who will stand for what's right stand for the right though the heavens fall be part of the solution and by God's grace when he comes we will be found faithful and thankfully we were told that a crisis is coming hang on to the ship hang on to Jesus and may we be found faithful when he comes close with her father in heaven. We don't know how all of this is going to play out we know that you are in control and that you control the end from the beginning forgive us for when we doubt you're leading forgive us for when we've been weak and cowardly not willing to speak up in the matter voice heard give us the grace and the courage to speak up and choose stand for what's right and to be on the Lord's side may we not being neutral in the time of crisis but may we be on the Lord's side and faithful when he comes this is my prayer and Jesus and. This message was recorded at the G. Y.C.. In Houston Texas. Supporting Ministry of the 7th Day Adventist Church seeks to inspire young people to be bible based pricing and so we can Christians. To download or purchase other resources like this visit us online she Y.C. would have.


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