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Advanced Soil Science - Part 3

Michael Trevizo


Farmer, Agricultural Reformer, Production Manager at Five College Farms, & Soil Scientist with a focus on Soil Science and Agronomy; Education: Bacherlor of Science in Crop and Soil Science, Oregon State University.


  • January 16, 2019
    10:45 AM
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I got a number of different saw samples that were shown to me but I didn't actually see any that said anything about buffering capacity of course I didn't look over that early but the old the old school about was you know you take your soil sample in and you get it tested they'll tell you what the buffering capacity is so I want to kind of describe what the buffering capacity is and to me it's kind of worthless but you know sometimes they give it to you but. The term buffering capacity is usually associated with the soils ability to resist changes in PH So remember we talked earlier about percent base saturation of hydrogen and catatonic you know how that relates to the PH in the soil as well as you know the percent base saturation being related to the total Cateye on exchange capacity of a soil so if you know the total cat on exchange capacity of a soil will say it's a really high number we'll just exaggerate will say 100 so that means that if you're having ph a 6.5 in that 10 percent is the equivalent of. 10 being saturated with nothing but hydrogen so if you want to change that ph you've got to put a tremendous amount of lying down right so you see when you when you're using soil mineral balancing when you use Alberich system of soil mineral balancing to work with your soils buffering capacity becomes really essentially meaningless so these old. School of thoughts that really go way back I mean literally I think it's about 100 years ago or so that when they started using both buffering capacity and they just didn't want to let it go but that's where that comes from so. However let's see now the other issue is aluminum Now if you have a soil that. You can maybe it's contaminated with aluminum or it just naturally has high levels of aluminum buff what that aluminum does is that it restricts your I talked earlier how it pulls those hydrogen ions off of the water I'm sorry the hydroxide ions off of the water putting hydroxide hydrogen ions into the solution and then increasing the PH So another issue in buffering capacity is how much calcium need to put in the soil to remove aluminum that makes sense so there's not just the hydrogen that's associated with your ph in your base that duration but also the aluminum that's in your soil so these are the 2 things that you really need to look at it's referred to as the door from the soil exchange success tricks that are so so buffering capacity from our work so that we see we look at the actual Ph aluminum concentration in part for 1000000 and soil you see as your aluminum increases in parts per 1000000 which is the equivalent of you know you multiply that by 2 and you'll get pounds to the acre or kilograms for the heck there so if we started about 0 usually it has no real serious effect as you start to increase that all the way up to as high as 40 pounds to the acre you can see that you end up with about. PH dropping down to about $3.00 or so which is a very exaggerated scenario of aluminum toxicity. See here aluminum also you know when you put the lime down again look at the root system of these seedlings paired compared to the seedlings in a soil with high levels of aluminum it's it's very. Very obvious what's going to root system here is where I talked about having healthy roots having the right calcium level it's not necessarily all about aluminum. But because the aluminum drives that acidity when that calcium comes in you remove that aluminum now you have that ability for those bonds to form in the middle of Mela of the root cells to make those roots strong because remember your root have no epidermal I'm sorry you have no cuticles they have no waxy cuticles to protect the exterior you don't want to walk waxy cuticle you need ion exchanges right if you have a waxy cuticle you're not going to be able to do that so because you don't have that the only real defense we have is proper mineralogy in our soil solution to give us healthy roots in our crops. Now OK So the take home on how to really want to talk a whole lot on buffering capacity because I don't select there's all that much to say but here the thrill take from here is that soil with a C.C. and low ph will have a higher buffering capacity I'm sorry what am I saying your souls with a high C.C. and a low ph will have a higher buffering capacity so that means it takes a lot more of line or whatever nutrient you need to use to change that ph whether be Dominical Calcutta climbs don't close soils with a low C C and the low ph will have a lower buffering capacity which means it takes a less cow less line to change that the H. It's very simple. OK so. Here's an example of where I don't really get ph a tremendous amount of respect I am looking here at a greenhouse soil what is the PH 8.8 You see that now if I told you I had a P. H. of 8.8 and I told you that I was going to line most of us think I'm crazy right that's a school of thought. But in this particular scenario I looked at it and I said no way I need a line like crazy because when I got down here the soil nutrient balancing is always more important than ph because when we look at this 36 percent calcium 38 percent but I asked him what is going on here. This is this is what happens when you use excessive amounts of compost you get your potassium so high but it doesn't necessarily change your ph and you end up with a serious imbalance so you want to use what can I do the side line and another thing I'll tell you folks that lime calcium carbonate cannot raise your ph any higher than 8 So if you're already at a. Adding line is not going to increase your Ph. Scientifically cannot impossible so if you have a P. H. of 8 and anything higher than that at all the lime you wish you're not going to increase your PH There's no hydroxide in that line to increase that ph to some exaggerated level it can only go up to 8 shows over that doesn't mean you won't release that calcium and lock up that lock up some other nutrient in this case we're really interested in locking up potassium and making it unavailable and getting that calcium in there but when we look at our potassium what's our recommended value 964 pounds of the acre What do I have 1180 pounds to the acre I've got 10 times more potassium than I really need in the soil that's a serious imbalance this is how this is what we mean when we say over and over again your soil is not balanced imbalances in your soil are what it is what's causing all these diseases and pathogens and this particular scenario this greenhouse what was getting hit hard with disease how many of you were in my class yesterday. Quite a bit of you remember one of the diseases I said would drive in a. And I was healthy composted soil with a nice you know healthy looking and smelling soil with lots and lots of compost fuse area I'm wilt or come right in and hit those roots interim all up in a way goes your crop so I change that one else look at another one basic soil relationship supplied nutrients from organic matter now I'm going to shift gears a little bit. And start talking about the soil food web how many of you guys have heard of the soil food web. One guy awesome 2 guys thats it. You've heard 3 polar bear all there that are now all right OK So remember I talked about organic matter and everything that was ever alive that it has died in all its excrement ever put in the ground while it was alive except except for a Anyway that all these organisms in your soil are breaking things down. Into the country like a food chain right in the soil way on the top of the food chain you have Arthur PA Actually you have worms which are not in this picture you'd put earthworms probably all the way at the very top. You know the birds of course come in and they eat the earthworms in the larger Pods and little mites and things that are grown in their spring tails etc Most those might in spring tails and worms and will feed on a name a toad and some Neiman toads will feed on these arthropod but in fungus will feed on some of those guys some of those guys will feed on the fungus the protozoa except for all the way down to the bacteria and then most of these guys down here all through here are feeding on either on each other or on the organic matter but it's a whole I mean it's a party of people just it really it's like that Sahara the best way that I could describe it as like going on one of the. You know African to Hara expeditions where you drive through and you've got lions and cheetahs and elephants and you know so far as I said Sahara forgive me I'm sorry. Tired thank you the Fahri like going on an African safari right and you've got cheated and lions and you've got the brothers and you've got all these other animals and you have all this activity running around and creatures feeding on other creatures and other feeding creatures feeding on the ground essentially that's what's going on in the soil except it's all microscopic and you just don't see that and all of this you know you have different levels of trophic even have big animals like this these guys move through the soil and they're breaking the soil up they're going to holes and opening it up and doing all these other things and anyhow that thats it. When we look at a square meter of soil you have one square meter on average anyhow not every square meter has a bird on it but yes on average you have one bird for every square metre you have about 100 snails and slugs for every square metre about 3000 pot worms and earthworms except for A and as you see it just gets bigger and bigger as the huge pyramid that by the time you get down to bite you have about $100000.00 mite and then you get down and even told you've got about $5000000.00 Nieman toads for every square metre of soil and a lot of time to get all the way down to the bottom bacteria not to get on my seat. I don't even know what that number is 10 trillion or something or 10000 trillion I don't know it's a big number it's a tremendous amount of organisms and one square metre of soil that you should have there not every soil has because some soils are really beat up and most of this is missing this is what's called Living soil why because all these organisms are living in it all right so as the soil is live in this live in the. As these organisms live in the soil they're breaking things down and they're doing all these other things that oftentimes most folks don't understand so the terms as been coined is the nitrogen cycle the phosphorus cycle and the sulfur cycle and even up the Tassie in cycles and calcium cycles any major new to actually any nutrient period goes through the cycles of wear for a period of time it's associated with a living organism and then it's enough and then it's locked up in some sort of method where it's not available to the plant and then it's released to the plant and then it becomes plants again it's a living organism that consumed by another organism and then a die just goes to the cycles of life and death over and over again these are referred to as cycles so this one here is the nitrogen cycle looks extremely complicated right it's really not. It is but it's not in the middle you have organic matter right here the organic matter like I said is anything that was ever living now or even you could even say you know anything that has ever lived in the soil now we can start this cycle anywhere but we'll start on the top where you have the most nitrogen nitrogen in the atmosphere I believe 78 percent if I remember the 78 percent of the atmosphere is nitrogen how do we get that nitrogen out of the atmosphere and into the roots well for. Fly for what was the 5930 years or so it was all done by living organisms which the Lord had created and tell us the 2nd world war broke out in Europe and I believe the United States and the U.K. put a blockade in China I'm sorry in Chile and we can no longer access Chile in nitrate or the Nazis had no access to Chile nitrate they needed it in order to make munitions so. They really pushed their scientists to figure things out and the Khaybar botched process was born now we take energy we take the. Atmosphere of air we compress it to really high pressures I think of something like $3000.00 or $30000.00 pounds per square inch and then we pull the nitrogen nitrogen out of that. Requires in thing amount of energy to get the nitrogen out of the air but it's calculated that today we have oil over 7000000000 people on this planet. And that half of the nitrogen that it takes to form your body all the proteins that are in your body came from the Haber boss process and the words I didn't come from natural processes that's the estimate as of today that's pretty impressive when you think that half of your body came from a mechanical process that was necessary in order to grow the food that made you as pretty impressive. So has the mechanical method now if we look at the natural method so again they were botched process is actually part of what has really allowed the population of boom on this planet. So. You know between that and chemical agriculture but I mean that's just the nitrogen portion I talk about phosphorus all of our profit protein yes but so you know there's there's an energy intensive as the price of energy goes up the price of fertilizer goes up. Right fertilizer goes up the price of food the price of food goes up the amount of people that are hungry go up so it's a domino effect no way to get away with it but there are ways to grow on your own without being dependent on nitrogen fertilisers So what did the world do how did God designed us initially Well this is very complex it seems but anyhow we'll start off with well we had the atmosphere of atmospheric nitrogen you have very little nitrogen is fixed through lightning fertiliser additions into the field industrial fixation is of course is that fertilizers but then you have nitrogen fixation from go beyond alfalfa and soybeans I think mystique does that as well and you also have noncom biopics nitrogen fixation from blue green algae go back there in classroom these are the organisms that actually fix the nitrogen they will fix it for the plant so these are so these are usually in the soil they have it's symbiotic it's got some sort of relationship with the roots but anyway the nitrogen comes from there eventually it's broken down through ammonium volatilize ation it can go be natural Some owners will do that in a natural back to or making nitrate which will actually be taken up by the plant. And then of course of it goes through the natural acacia it'll go back into the atmosphere and then you also have a modification to the ammonia monium can also be taken up by the plants but anyhow that's it right there in the biggest issue we fight with is leeching and the Knights of occasion so when you're turning to synthetic nitrogen sources and you're dumping all these fertilizers into the ground as we've been doing on this for quite some time now we end up with an awful lot of leeching. Because it's estimated that for every $100.00 pounds of nitrogen that's put on the ground only about $25.00 pounds are actually used to make the crop. So the rest of the is going somewhere else a lot of loss in these systems whereas a going largely to leeching and to the natural occasion which goes right back into the atmosphere so it's just being lost the other things that have been there the end up with way too much nitrogen in the crop and we have so many diseases in our crops simply because we have way too much nitrogen in the ground. More intelligent applications of nitrogen are really needed and in a better understanding of how nitrogen should be managed according to the way God intended to be managed not just by the dumping of synthetic chemicals and I'm not opposed to using these chemicals folks I mean the that the plants can only take up nitrate and they can only take up ammonium those are the only 2000 actions they can take up where that nitrate aware that ammonium came from you know there is did it come from a bag that you went and bought or did it come from the a compost to put in the ground or the cover crop that you killed into the ground or the manure that you perhaps amended with all of those then surely break down and form nitrate or ammonium there's no difference in the molecule it's identical It's just that it's where it came from and how it got there that's different. This is a phosphorus cycle is very similar to the nitrogen cycle except that big difference with phosphorus is that we don't walk and breeze and have all this phosphorus around us with phosphorus we have to go look for phosphorus or bodies then we have to mine that phosphorus out of the ground then we've got to take it somewhere where it can be hit with acid and turned into these synthetic forms of phosphorus and we need the strong Aston to do it in order to actually break those bonds that are usually very tight bonds that plants cannot do by themselves or take microorganisms or something else to break that down but we use prong acids and we form things like model monium phosphate or super triple phosphate Dick cetera and then we amend their souls with this. Of course when you use excessive amounts of phosphorus which is 2 things that cause HUGE of occasion one is excessive nitrogen The other was excessive phosphorus nitrogen is contaminating our waters drinking water phosphorous is contaminating our rivers and streams and oceans. We have seen a tremendous amount of massive fish die offs in the Mississippi River in the Gulf of Mexico and lakes and streams throughout all of. The Corn Belt of the United States due to excessive phosphorous fertilizers and like somebody mentioned earlier they said is my phosphorous going to leach only when it's you have applied so much that it's leeching I mean if you're leeching you've got way too much because phosphorous really shouldn't even be moving in the soil it's very immobile it doesn't want to move then there's a sofer cycle again so for us to Bickley a gas it can come in largely through maneuvers in animal products but again arid regions tend to be very deficient in this and it to go through multiple different cycles and it involves a lot of different bacterial organisms that can fix that sulfur out of the ground out of the air and put it into plant tissues and do other things with it and it is likely complicated is also complicated much like the phosphorous and nitrogen cycle however it's not as big a as big of a deal in other words it's not you don't really hear about so for being contaminating soils or anything else but likewise you have these cycles but the key thing to take out of these cycles is that I'm sorry. Is that a lot of them are associated with the plant uptake and the breaking down of plant tissues so that the way that God had designed these these these nutrients to be managed is through actual growing of something having it decay breakdown them break those and then make those nutrients available to the next generation and it's the same with so for with nitrogen and was phosphorous and many other nutrients but mostly these and ions that you can hold in the soil that are so important to your crop and to the success of your crop that you need to manage through cover cropping and through proper you know putting those tissues back into the ground if you're just in a production system where you're constantly bringing in truckloads of fertilizer I mean you just you're never You're always going to have this expense and expense it's not really necessary and if we get to a point in life where we can't just go down to the fertilizer store and buy fertilizers or then how do you grow a crop you see if you're dependent on the fertilizer man for fertilizer What are you going to do in a time when nobody knows so so you know I don't really bring that up unless I'm around admins but yes by no sell means no buy no sell of fertilizers to so we've got to understand how to manage these nutrients without being dependent on the fertiliser man so the excessive use of synthetic fertilizers the 2 nutrients of most concern of course I should mention are nitrate and actually just nitrate not so much ammonia though well nitrate fertilizer is an ammonium fertilizer because that ammonium can all ultimately turn into nitrogen leach into the water tables and then of course phosphorous So there's something that's really really interesting if you haven't heard this before the world is running out of phosphorus 7870 percent of the phosphorus reserves in this planet are in Morocco the Western Sahara it's believed that in the future there are going to be fought wars over phosphorous in other words our current production system. Global food production system is very fertilizer dependent behavior box process you can do it anywhere you just need machines and you need energy you know what you can put a bunch of solar panels to spend the compressors and everything you don't have to be dependent on fossil fuels for nitrogen but for phosphorous you have to mine it and the thing is like crude oil phosphorous you know remember oil for the 1st part of the most of the 21st what I think all the way through the early seventy's it was easily accessible and others foil was cheap by the seventy's. We had used up all the oil that was easily extractable and now we had to spend more energy and more time to mine and to go and get new sources of oil so we had to drill deeper we had to start fracking we had to go out to the middle of the ocean that we had to go over to other countries and find the complicated places and these other places to get oil to extract oil out of the ground it was very expensive to extract it essentially that's where we're going we're going to we're getting to the point where we are going to be totally out of phosphorus easily extractable phosphorous by the year 2033 that's not too far from you know it will be totally out of phosphorus that means that all the aid to get to phosphorous is going to be gone by 2033 that makes sense. So that means around that time we're going to expect to see increased prices in phosphorus because now you can't just go to an ore body somewhere extract that or and take it to a factory somewhere will be treated with that in terms of a fertilizer so it's going to happen is that it's going to be more and more expensive because now you've got to fill a truck that maybe is only 10 percent phosphorus instead of 30 percent phosphorus So you're getting a 3rd of the efficiency you know fought for it no food. With that simple you've got to figure out how to manage these nutrients without being dependent on the fertilizer man. A good way to scare yourself is by googling phosphorus shortage and nobody ever talks about it it's not a big deal it's not a big deal until there's nothing to eat at Wal-Mart and all them places but anyway agriculture today's agriculture the way they practice it requires a lot of fertilizers whether it's nitrogen phosphorus whatever it is they turn to fertilizers and they tell you dump it dump it and dump it and dump it in the I talk to somebody earlier about one of the fields I haven't Massachusetts was grown and grown potatoes on it for a number of years now. The literature tells you hey you need a lot of phosphorous to grow big potatoes so what are the farmers do they just keep dumping it on there they don't even know whether they need it or not or how much is that I don't even bother to check they just know that the bulletin extension bulletin they read it you need $200.00 pounds or whatever a year of phosphorus So the put $200.00 pounds of phosphorus breaker on to the field do you need $200.00 pounds of phosphorus to the acre of field I have no idea but they do it so then I go and I test their soils they've got 6 times more phosphorus and they need they need to stop and phosphorous a long time ago it's amazing but that's the that's the way the industry operates. Load says again and again The Lord has instructed that our people are to take their families out of the cities into the country where they can raise their own provisions for in the future the problem of buying and selling is a serious one let me ask you something somebody told you you can't buy an i Phone you can be upset maybe maybe not so you might be some you might not be one of the told. You know like Venezuela right now you get one bar so for the whole family every month it's not a big deal. That's all you get then and spoil that's your that's your soap ration your food ration. Can you get nothing when I can always collapse you're dependent on your ration just like it was in Europe they did in Venezuela today so when she said the issue of buying and still selling is a serious one we oftentimes think that you know we're talking about Sunday laws or we're talking about persecution eccentric sector there's a lot of trouble coming to this world that has really nothing to do with that but even at that point the issue in buying with buying and selling It's like if you can't buy food you're in trouble. You know what if you don't have so it's like you know well who cares if I don't have self-reliant food that's a problem big problem and anyhow that's coming down the road you can see it you know there's a lot of other calamities in the world you know economics oil war politics blah blah blah blah blah all these things seem to be colliding to add another one to your list is the shortage of fertilizers because of the way that we grow and that's not that far down the road excess of phosphorous I put into the ground an excessive amount because they think they need it and goes into the rivers it kills the fish in the rivers it kills the fish in the oceans it kills the ecosystem in there because of algae blooms and you know well you can't eat fish either now it's gone to this is an example of huge for cation in this river here I think this is in India if I remember or somewhere in Thailand or one of those countries I forget in Southeast Asia Anyhow this is what it does to the water and this is what you're starting to see a lot in the upper Mississippi River and in the Gulf of Mexico Louisiana deals with this a lot. Really bad shape so like I mentioned earlier I mentioned earlier corporation a lot of this is really dealt with these big corporate agricultural businesses that you know they just if was going on in the world everybody's rushing to the city. In this hole right now I think last year 2018 was a pinnacle because for the 1st time in the world history 50 percent of the world's population live in cities the problem with cities is food doesn't grow in cities that means 50 percent of the world's population is dependent upon somebody farming to feed them as they are told properties will be offered for us offered for sale in the rural districts at a price below the real cost because the owners desire city advantages that's exactly what is going on today the kids don't want to farm the way Daddy and grandpa farmed off to the cities they sell the properties of these prices off to the highest bidder the farms gone and another generation of farmers can come in it was God's plan that the land should be returned to the children after every Jubilee every 50 years if you sold a piece of property your land you are supposed to give it back after 50 years so that no matter what it will go back if you get a stubborn generation that doesn't want to farm fine go it goes to the next generation that was God's plan that was that's what God instituted in the Bible that every single family should have a piece of land big enough to grow their own provisions that's what he intended for Israel and because the world has decided you know not to do things the biblical way everybody's rushing into the cities getting out of the rural areas there's less and less people farming globally more and more issues are going to come up with food because we're depending upon farmers to grow more and more and more and increase their yield and increase their yields to feed an ever increasing population in the city and that is what is leading to these Georges to these essential is just the destruction of the planet. Another quote ignorance is doing its bell full work we don't know how to farm intelligently So what do we do we make decisions with misinformation poor information or no information and as a statement clearly says ignorance is doing is baleful work because we do not understand what we're doing we're not successful in agriculture we call it quits and we move to the city and we live in these conditions like what's going on in India and China that they can't stop building these things look at that cliff this is what's going on in the world people are rushing into the cities because the farms don't produce anymore. I look at these tell me I mean study the bonnet plug in Europe what happened in Europe that's what's coming how can you possibly have healthy living conditions look at this there is no hope for that as a population in urban areas increases so the pressure on the world's agro ecosystems we're constantly pushing these systems to produce more and more and more we're picking our genetics and in a variety is in our plans to reduce calories to just grows much food as we possibly can consumption but little nutrition the world is getting sicker and sicker and sicker is just a mess serious global mass consolidation of agricultural production everybody's buying everybody out right now every time you know these markets crash or whatever they go and they buy another big greenhouse operation they go and the buyout another company you know months on so bought out the routers and then buyer buys out months on tow etc So now you're consolidating and consolidating and consolidating over and over and over again and this is not God's design not you know not to be livin in the cities the Bible refers to cities as what an abomination as a scar on the earth a scar on the earth. That's what this city is Portland a scar in the earth. As beautiful as you may think it is. There's another issue beyond that God does not design that men shall appropriate all that the earth produces for their own selfish purposes he calls upon them to bring their tithes and offerings into the store out that there may be me in his house in India China Russia and the cities of America thousands of men and women are dying of starvation why because the moneyed men because they have the power control the market this is very very true in agricultural production You don't say your price you know Apple they make an i Phone I WANT TO $1000.00 for it's going to pay me a $1000.00 you don't get my phone I grow an Apple $2.00 a pound dollar a pound $0.50 a pound whatever they tell me I'm going to get that's what I'm going to get I can't dictate my price or they just go and buy it from China and bring it into the United States you know that's what is destroying agriculture as a as a business as a viable business is economics because money men control the market they go wherever they can find cheap produce and then they bring in they sell it here what does she say this means starvation to the poorer classes and will result in civil war that's where we're headed it's happening today. Armed complex all over the world but with a so what were the countries that she mentioned Russia then at war with Ukraine for 5 years now China is falling apart people are leaving their cities that's crashing their economy which ultimately is they claim is going to crash our economy India is out of control a lot of conflict the United States more and more conflict in our cities funny because in the United States he says the cities of America he doesn't say the nation of the United States out of the cities is the growth. What is needed in the cultivation of the soil the thoughtful worker will find that treasured little dreamed of are opening up before him no one can succeed in agricultural lines without or gardening without attention to the laws involved we need to understand what we're doing if you are serious about gardening or farming you've got to get serious about understanding the soil the science of the soil and what you're doing or you're not going to figure it out and the questions OK as are questions about the soil food web and how do you develop a healthy soil food web 1st things 1st you know healthy soil chemistry the moment you get a healthy soil chemistry you'll begin to push biological organisms into the right balance because you will create an environment for them you build the house they will come his question is OK let's say is put ourselves in a period of no no by no sell this pretend that just happened yesterday on we're all scared or whatever how do we test our soils in a time of nobody no self my answer to you is. And we hear what you learn if you start growing 1st off if you get your soil in the right direction it's not going to happen overnight it's going to take years so the thing is if you think one day you're going to pass on the law you're going to run off into the woods you're going to start growing things it's not going to happen because there's so much you need to learn and this earth is waxing old like a garment you've got it's going to take time for you to fix that soil it may take 345 years for you to fix it but like it took 3 or 45 years for you to fix it if you're going to mess it up it's going to take 345 years for you to mess it up in other words if you're doing things right and you're doing things right and suddenly it's over no by no cell you've got at least 3 to 5 years before you really need to worry about it and from my understanding of the prophecies all we need is 3 and a half. Other things how can we I guess identify issues under the same circumstances of time of nobody knows so there's a book. Written by Charles Walters titled we control without poisons and it's an excellent book. It's just got a whole bunch of pictures of weeds and he tells you he got this we this is probably what's going on if you got that we this is probably was going on except except with just correcting the imbalances in your soil oftentimes get rid of all. I want to get really or weed but what it will do is that it's going to change your wheat pressure in other words it's going to change the type of weed that are growing and all the we did is a plant out of place you know so you think that maybe you're not going to have Canadian Thistle Johnson grass or what have you but you'll have a weed growing that it's far more desirable than easier to deal with than some of these really serious rhizomes or other weed that are very invasive and are difficult to overcome. The thing is 1st off with phosphorous I guess the issue his concern is well they were to start wars over phosphorous. Well I don't know that they'll really start wars over phosphorous but. You know it's. Maybe not you know wars of bullets and guns and bombs and maybe trade wars which is really interesting but I don't know what other type of war they'll invent next but yeah they'll definitely be struggles over natural resources phosphorous is one of those reason natural resources that definitely can see. The baiting the United States I didn't put a thing up there but the United States was ranked 3rd as having the highest phosphorus reserves so Morocco is obviously the highest and then I forget who I think it was Mexico and then the United States I don't remember exactly but anyhow there's quite a bit of phosphorous in the United States for now but you know when will that be used up I I don't know but for us phosphorus in our systems as well if you have the right phosphorus levels in your soils it takes a long time to really remove it and to get to a point we are deficient oftentimes it takes people an extremely long time to get to a point where they actually get it right OK You're saying that the only thing that you consume is being removed or maybe could be LEACH Well 1st off phosphorous if you have the right leg. Holes shouldn't leach it won't Leach the only thing you're going to remove the only thing it's going to be missing is one of the crop to cut so a lot of that factory to build the fruit if you will is going to go back into the ground. Yeah that's a question folks ask a lot of fun going to affect my How does killing affect my biology will killing tillage. First off if we're going to grow vegetables next to impossible to grow vegetables without tillage. Some type of tillage I mean if you grow potatoes How do you get the potatoes at the ground you're going to catch the part that grounds and how to grow carrots or any other root crops the same way so there's no way to avoid that with other crops. You're looking at. The possibility of destroying the fungal biology's. Or fungal communities in that soil you're not going to destroy the bacterial communities right away you might affect them by destroying the salt of the soil in a different way by not having the right chemistry in the soil or. Poor organic percent again of matter in the soil which. You can affect with excessive tillage because every time you tell you get more oxygen into the ground which can burn up some of that organic matter and then of course lower the percent organic matter but that usually happens in systems where you're never returning back to the ground other words whatever your harvest you take it all like and some of the here in Atlanta valley they grow a lot of grass seed Well they go through the combine in the Collect of the grass seed right well then they come in with the Baylor's in the rakes in the rake up every part of the the grass so that they're essentially almost no organic matter goes back into the in the ground that gets bailed up it gets put on a ship container ship and sent to Japan and never comes back to the United States they sell 100 percent of what they grow so and that kind of a system you can see the organic matter just dropping so this is one of those things where if you're removing the entire portion of the plant everything but the root you're likely that you and then you're killing every year multiple times a year sometimes as vegetable production you're there's a lot of tillage involved national production or as we would call it cultivating to reduce the weeds and to come in and. You know healing potatoes is technically called the nation or healing your leeks is cultivation so that's also tillage So that type of stuff is it's very difficult to argue against doing those things but what will they really destroy. And that's that's a highly debated topic but bacteria the difficult thing to destroy usually is typically fungus. You may get rid of moles and mice and stuff like that which is kind of part of the food webs of technically that's the biology as well but that's a question that is very obvious open ended and requires a lot of discussion but if in most of your vegetable production systems I don't know how you could produce it without tillage of some sort. Essentially has a B.C.S. chillers a possible till some of the weeds after they get to a certain height I have found and many others have found that is. When the weeds get that big tillage is no longer effect of controlling them so what happens is you really need to be going in there when they're out of seedling stage because in those root systems get so big that when you come in and you try to cut the top you're not going to destroy those crowns so you kind of like your MO in with the tiller which is very difficult thing to do ever go down these rows of these tailors and establish weeds and it can be a headache a serious headache to do this and then of course whatever you manage to knock down comes right back up next week back to grass again so the best way to control it or at least what it's practice is particular in organic agriculture is to get in there at the seedling stage only scrape the top 2 inches you just want to come in and destroy those seedlings because all the seeds that are going to germinate are always going to be in the top 2 inches of the soil. So you just want to serve only those top 2 inches of soil. You don't want to go deep No you just want to go to the surface this is why I like who the hose and hose are used for weeding Yeah. I've never I've never tried to silence TARP to try to try to kill seeds but I've I've know that from some instances it has actually been pretty effective because what they do I've seen them used inside the shop I've also seen them use like clear greenhouse plastic and then you know get real hot in there and it'll kill off some of the seeds as well to kill off some of the pathogens which is nice. And then when they remove it you know they can come in and do other things grow whatever's going to grow with less sweet pressure and disease pressure but I have never tried it myself claim waiters. I've never used one I've been wanting one we've been looking at trying to get one for carrots However yeah it works off the same principle it destroys all the seeds but again it's usually just the surface of the soil I didn't even go but. Fractions of an inch deep so the top 2 inches of usually going to germinate on you so you require multiple passes Yeah and if you have young plants there drunk transplants or anything coming up. It can destroy them yeah that's another thing the propane Yeah I don't even go there the propane alone on the language or sometimes can just each eat up any of your profit and then you have what the flame waiters you have almost all the same expense at least in a big production system it's just a small garden that is a different story but I mean if we're talking about acres of vegetable production you still have the expense of getting a guy on a tractor how to drive down the tractor drive down a few roads and claim we did something so you have all your fuel and labor and maintenance expenses with the machine that you would have if you just put a basket weaving on there or in your leaders or something and you did the same thing. 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