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  • March 23, 2019
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We've quoted quite often from Christ object lessons page 69 when the character of Christ shall be perfectly reproduced in his people then he will come to claim them as his own Are you aware of anything in the context of where the statement is in page 69 that suggests that it cannot be taken literally as it reads that the character of Christ will be literally reproduced in his people the context of a statement is clearly connected to the way sions 5 verses $22.23 where the fruits of the spirit love joy peace longsuffering gentleness goodness faith meekness temperance and so all of that is part of the character of Christ and it's also a desire to win souls so it's a reproduction it's not simply a reflection and it is been like Jesus and all of its fullness as he was on the surface. What right is it. And the other gentleman you want to say anything done it. Really is where there is that tough to understand. Where something happens then something else happens let's let language speak it's all. You know I see it is the context that it grows out. Of to slee Peter surely. When. He says. We will be in all things Stuart. And it is a broader sense it is certainly due to the relation of the image of God in human beings you know we did this is one of the goals for little gospel the plan of salvation the restoration. And of course with this image you forgot is the distribution of the reach of crashed because of crashed the intimately related to each other and be taken at face value to be a reality which is described here and C O L 69. Yeah that is one thing that it is often used. With Matthew 548 to try to rip that out of the context trust try to make say something is not. That's one thing that this book here does quite often the one that passed for competitor 2 when it ignores a plethora of statements this for a prophecy it takes one and doesn't expand upon it and ignores a mountain of evidence to the contrary Now this whole thing here over reflecting and reproduce the character Christ or commit sin. My 1st experience in this discussion which took place many many years ago I just have one simple challenge and that is this. Looking for one scripture just one scripture or one statement in the spirit prophecy that tells me that I cannot overcome sin give me one. I threw a challenge out there some 26 years ago when I 1st began doing this I'm still waiting for the response it doesn't exist. You're talking about the context well let's read the context it says Christ is waiting with longing desire so that spiritual right he's not really waiting he's not really having a longing desire is that the conclusion he's waiting so Christ is now waiting for too long desire for us for the manifestation of himself in his church the church is also something spiritual I guess. Let's reaked in reading when the character of Christ shall be perfectly reproduced in his people then he will come to claim them as his own it is the privilege I guess it's a spiritual word Also it's the privilege of every Christian not only to look for but to haste in the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and then Ellen White called 2nd Peter 312 so I guess the whole 2nd Peter 3 is saying something else. Where all who profess his name bearing fruit to his glory how quickly the whole world will be sown with the seed of the Gospel quickly that I guess that means slowly quickly the last great harvest would be ripened and Christ would come to gather the precious grain. I just think that this is very clear passage. Second question if the character of Christ has already been vindicated in Christ victorious life and death in his humanity why has God allowed sin to continue for another 2000 years why didn't Jesus just go back to Heaven and then return immediately for his people not a dumb state. God wants to show demonstrate to the whole world in the universe that if you let Satan continue to go what will happen in their 43 and a half times the 1260 Prophetic days the 12 and 60 years is in demonstration of the fish in the stripped of his of Satan and so Satan has had his game. The end of the turf in 6 years 798 now you have the period or the restoration of the gospel and then Christ is there to demonstrate to the world after seeing has demonstrated his tactics what can be done with the human race who are faithful so Satan trace to destroy the faithful and he nearly finished everything now will there was 3 D. just the opposite and generation of the 144008 is perfectly follow Jesus would ever he goes in and that I think is the great demonstration that if Satan is in control he will destroy those people increased is in control he'll demonstrate to the world that not only one person not only Jesus himself but sinful human beings at their weakest point at the end of time can demonstrate what the power why even though Jesus in His humanity which was fallen like ours indicated the character of God loved us and less life was able to offer himself as us and listening to provide an atonement but this life this world has gone on for another 2000 years it's done I think that question answers itself if Christ fully answered all the charges of Satan against God's character at the cross if God won the war why isn't it over if God did accomplish everything he needed to accomplish at that moment then he is responsible for the horrors and the atrocities that the last 2000 years has brought us and I consider that an unacceptable solution. 13 and 14 recorded the experience of the children of Israel in the wilderness and there was a delay in arriving back where God wanted them to be I mean there's there are a lot of Bible examples of speeding up toward the delaying the 2nd coming or delaying rather God's God's purposes in different cases and God didn't just short circuit everything and force it to happen anyway God you know we feel we are on limited time but God's got quite a bit of time to work with and so God is has his purposes his goals. When you look at desire of Ages 672 and a rather 876-2763 you know with that after Jesus died on the cross the devil brought forth new charges or some modified charges going on so God didn't say we've heard enough he said no we're going to we're going to Saul we're going to answer this too so I think that part of our answer is we're not talking about. Handful of Alan White statements that have been ripped out of their context are that we wish it were this way or we wish it were that way we have a lot of Bible evidence for this in this child history of the children of Israel in numbers where they were to go in the Promised Land they didn't go then you have Esther you know that Queen Esther went into the King and sped up the deliverance of her people who were about to be killed based on the decree so you have a speeding up there so these are things that there are there are actually several different texts in the bible several different possible stories that would help us understand that our God has a purpose and he's going to he's he's moving through that purpose and the slower Downer thing is not God and the slowing down seems to be that we're a little bit comfortable here in our air condition cell phone world so God has a purpose he's going to linger on quite a bit further if we don't get around to it it'll be another generation washer to be the next generation when it could be our generation. Disposed we could say that. Looking out so it lights to argue the point Jesus came down in our humanity he succeeded suppose the devil might say yes but you know that was that was Jesus let's see the same thing replicated in his followers do you think that might be a fact while we're still here and God is waiting for this last generation to. Demonstrate what Jesus did. Repechage mention the reference like to read here designed to just teach them to see one the conscious years G.'s in the cross. Same as SAW THAT is this guy's turn away by shedding the blood of the Son of God He had uprooted himself from the sympathies of the heavenly beams that's interesting because even after the cross scene had sympathized Dylan it. Then it goes on here yet Satan was not then destroyed why the angels did not even then the cross the angels and even then understand all that was involved in the great controversy so even at the cross the angels are still not fully understanding what's going on and for the sake of man was as the principles at stake were to be more fully revealed and for the sake of man Satan's existence must be continued men as well as angels must see the contrast between the prince of light and the prince of darkness he must choose whom he will serve so so it had a plan a little longer for our sake as well as for the sake of the unfallen worlds and it would just go to the expatriate quickly it says the warfare against God's law which was be going to heaven will be continued until the end of time every man will be tested obedience or disobedience is a question to be decided by the whole world which had to became keep on going here but the point is even at the cross Angel scene man what's really going on here and so the final demonstration that we were just talking about that is going to fully answer all of the new objection that seem brought up after the cross of the whole lot going on here that 7 have time to really get into it here as I've been listening to everybody and all these good answers and I have had 3 different answers come to mind already it's just too big we have to understand when people have already died when they come up to judgment it's really a simple thing for God because they can't change anything they've done. And but to bring people that are alive to judgment who can still make decisions require something that God has never well the human race has never with everything they've gone through what God's doing is he's trying to prepare people to actually go through that alive and all in the past the human race cannot be ready for that. And we are coming to that time it's pretty awesome to think about you know investigative judgment judges the dead and the living the dead are easy to be judged they're in the grave their record is finished we look at their books and we see if they accept Jesus or not their sins are forgiven or not it's easier I mean easier quote unquote there's a lot but it's over for them but the living they keep living and then you're looking at Deutschen and like oh he's good he's holy OK Wait is he going to hold 2 more now he's since tomorrow let's wait and he can really say when do we the living you can't catch them for the tailor for the for the head went that's why the book of the Bible says there is going to be a sealing time only God knows and that's what the verse in Revelation $22.00 it says dose who are righteous let them be what and those who are on righteous That means if I give more time got the God knows there's going to be a point of time where he only he knows if I let the righteous I see his righteous if I give him more time what's going to happen let him he will be righteous Still he's not going to change Ah I can see him but if he's unrighteous God is merciful and merciful he's waiting for the answer but there's going to be a point when he's going to say OK I see he's still unrighteous if I give him more time what. He had been on righteous still so only God knows when that moment will be that's the ceiling but that's what. Investigative judgment talks about it's the judgment of the living and the living needs to be sealed as long as they have any sin in them they can be sealed and that's why Jesus needs to intercede for our sin He intercede for us and so he can't just come from Heaven say I'm coming oh you still have sin while I have to destroy you and he when he stops his intercession Jesus comes of this choice in that's why he needs to prepare his people to the point where he doesn't need to intercede for them anymore that's why the cross is not over the cross is not the end All right thank you gentlemen let's move on here we his a text could you please briefly explain the difference between carrot to perfection is perfection ism perfectionism is the same as legalism is the word legal a good word is a legalism good concept in other words it takes a concept and turns it to be a negative perfection is God's working in the lives of his people to change their characters to be like Christ perfectionism is grit your teeth and try as hard as you can just get with the program it'll work out some hol some way somehow you can fight your way through this perfectionism is doing it the Old Covenant way try harder fail constantly. Fred you know in that book. In the final generation they kept having to add the words absolutely perfect or absolutely senseless and you know absolutely absolute perfection only belongs to one person only ever will and that's got himself even angels don't have absolute perfection because they don't know everything and nature perfection angels have. And we can't change our nature God will change it when we come and so perfectionism is like to accuse somebody of a level of perfection that goes beyond character perfection and I think that's probably clear enough perfectionism is sometimes a term people talk about when you think that your flesh can reach perfection before the close of probation that was the holy pleasure movement Indiana 900 Brinsmade movement in 1970 I think seventy's was a belief that. Our sinful flesh can also become sinless flesh of Adam before the fall before the close of probation that's perfectionism so this is this is a perversion of the true doctrine of one word says we don't teach holy flesh we teach holy character the character whole in this is the true Christian perfection and it's in 2nd Clinton stood up to 7 verse one this is that's where it is many other verses therefore having these promises Beloved let us cleanse ourselves from what. How much feel to miss all filtered ness of the flesh and spirit perfecting holiness in the fear of God since is says it doesn't say let's be holy It says let us perfect our holiness Amen our sanctification that is perfect it is not a bad word to perfect and perfection is not a bad word perfectionism is the perversion you know. We are living in a time when there is all awful lot of labeling going on and we've probably all been guilty of it ourselves I'm sure we have but I think we need to be pretty careful with these labels a lot of times the purpose of the label is so that you don't have to take anything else that person says seriously So you label them and then you throw them away and I don't think that is Christ's way if there's a matter to be investigated let's look at it from a bible standpoint and and I want to get beyond labels I want to be careful because I think a lot of the things that we found in in in the book there's just a lot of labeling and claiming we believe things that we don't believe in that seems to be the plan for that seems to be to basically to do to remove the possibility of of hearing we hearing about that we're going to label them and throw it away and I think Christians can do better than that I think we need to we need we need to be that way as well we need to be careful we don't label others and just throw their viewpoints away a labels do have a usefulness there is a usefulness but when you label people with things that are you're adding modifiers and saying things that are not even their own language it suggests to me that somebody doesn't want to hear this message it's in and so let's try to somehow get beyond labeling throwing and throwing them away let's try to be fair with the inspired writings and take it from there on I hope we haven't come. To a time when it's too late for that I think God's people can do better that than that you won't find the term perfectionism in the Bible or the Spirit of Prophecy just so you know but you will find perfection. We're talking about perfectionism and you know the Mitt the labeling and the you know the misconception I'd like to talk about the word perfect for a minute what does it mean to have character perfection and we've talked about it a lot but we actually have to define character and understand this and Ellen White defines character as the thoughts and the feelings combined and so character perfection just means that your thoughts and feelings are completely surrendered to Jesus and as long as your thoughts and feelings are surrendered to Jesus you have character perfection you can have that right now at this very minute but as you grow you'll have to mature and that but that's what it is you can have character perfection right now and if you're surrendered to do the key is to stay that way thank you gentlemen let's move on to another question. What are the hallmarks of the true Gospel vs a false gospel and what are the contra string results which will and soon will be seen in the lives of people on the other side of the question not make sense one of the hallmarks of the true Gospel vs the false gospel let's deal with the. Well I mean all the preview can probably give a clear answer on this but it's basically you start down the line number one how do you define sin how you did it how do you define justification sanctification the nature of Christ and the possibility of overcoming sin the evangelical gospel says that we're sinners by nature therefore we will keep sending until Jesus comes and therefore the only thing that can save us is a legal forensic justification because by nature we're still sinning so we're just forensically covered sanctification we're only be partial obviously then Jesus couldn't have the same nature as us and then the possibility of victory Everson will be incomplete versus the true gospel that is yes we're born with fallen sinful natures but we receive condemnation by choice therefore justification is not only a legal transaction but there's also an experience transformation allies and faith and works page $100.00 God requires the entire surrender of the heart before justification can take place and then the Bible says and 1st US the audience $523.00 that we can be sanctified holy or completely 100 percent and that means victory over sin is completely possible so basically you can line up those 2. You know views and it's either false gospel or true Gospel and the false gospel can lead you down the wrong path or if you don't believe you can have victory over Son you won't and you'll fall into trouble on the day of judgment that's just in a nutshell to gospels best of road I think I can ask a question that will really cut to the chase as to what the difference is and I'm going to ask this question was the thief on the cross justified everybody is say yes now I'm going to ask this was the thief on the cross born again. Why is the answer yes because Jesus said in John 33 that unless you're born again you cannot enter the kingdom of heaven and he told that thief that he was assured that begin heaven and so if he wasn't born again Jesus was contradicting himself and so what this shows is that the power of justification is the power of being born again it's not just well you're declared righteous even though you're not you are completely changed and. I guess I'll stop there because I see other people want to add to that but I think one of the problems one of the reasons why people don't understand and have a hard time with understanding biblical perfection and entire sense of occasion or care to that possibility is because I think a lot of us don't do not understand justification and what starts what begins the justification when I talk with some theologians and I saw that there was a missing link right there and justification Ellen White and Bible says clearly that we need to confess and forsake every known sin every known sin that we know off we need to confess and forsake trooped to the power of Christ Amen every known sin but then if every known sin is at the justification everything that I know I don't want to be my idol Lord I said I know this is wrong and it is wrong and you prayed like Jacob saying Lord what else is there and you are asking the Lord to reveal to you every known thing that you have seen precisely on what it says Go be particular about this in general generalize but particularly confessing every known fault and sometimes it takes time because there's a lot and so that is true just if you cation is true conversion and sure repentance of every sin that you know but there is a lot of sins that you do not know. There's sins of ignorance call involuntary sin sins of that you're not foolish you don't know that you're doing them yet just like Martin Luther Ellen was as Martin who will be in heaven but he drank beer he broke Sabbath every week he hated the Jews and other things and so he was doing some sins of being there is that he didn't know he wasn't ready for that for the Lord to reveal those things to him he wasn't ready for that but he was covered he was justified but was he sanctified fully know if I am anti-Semite today would you would I be your pastor we progress to since Martin Luther right so God is not right now God is not just he we are justified when we confess every known sin and we forsake every nuance and but then there is a process called sanctification and in the next day the Lord tell me oh my son there's another thing yesterday you were justified you confessed everything you knew but today there's there's this one more thing. OK again forgiveness for seeking repentance and then the Lord shows you nothing next day that's called growth Amen and you grow and you grow and that sanctify does and that's why people don't understand perfection because they don't stand justification and what is and so what perfection will be point every sin of ignorance is being confessed because sins of ignorance guess what Jesus mediates for the sins of ignorant Did you know that the Jesus intercede for Martin Luther saying I know he's the Sabbath keeper but it's OK he doesn't get Sunday keeper but he still can't really take that is too much for him right now the G.'s intercede for him yes he was interceding for him but that's what Jesus wants to stop interceding right OK I'm stopping. Jesus once just for all but why does Jesus want to stop interceding because he needs to what. Come down here and he can just be interceding and coming down at the same time and so he needs to also stop interceding for our sins of ignorance so just because the beginning and then sanctification cause to the point which is there's a need to intercede for he says they're sealed they're perfectly take it perfected their holiness in the fear of God Amen thank you we have another text OK take somebody to. What impact has Desmond Ford's view on the Gospel in the century had on the S.T.A. church and its view on last generation theology you want me to read it again what impact is Desmond Ford's view on the cost on the Gospel and the sanctuary had on the S.T.A. church and its view on the last generation theology past the Larry while just a short answer is that we've come to the place where in 2018 we're publishing books that are that are in contradiction to our own message. So that's the short answer. Seeds were planted in the 1950 S. when we had our interaction with even Jellicoe leaders those seeds were watered and nourished and fertilized by Desmond Forde we're now seeing the fruit on the tree that's all it is and I think we need to understand something here one of the main purposes of this symposium that we're having is to show the difference between the event Jellicoe understanding of not only the gospel but the Atonement and the whole plan of salvation and the true biblical understanding of the Gospel and the plan of salvation that is one of the major reasons for this symposium and there's one more aspect that needs to be said the word conservative is not good enough. Desmond Ford was a conservative not a liberal I rub shoulders with him he was a faithful sanctified Adventist believe or health reform away better than mine at that time he was a very good representative of Christianity he was a conservative and so the word conservative is not a good word to be using to describe ourselves right now we need to be 7th Day Adventists not conservatives not liberals but bible believing advantage. Of the dumpster. To sink you idiot if you Committee we didn't forward in a new roof theologians from the seminary and minister eaters be RA I and he said there any were to be dismissed for it for I have a year going over his manuscript every month we came together and then he produced another chapter in the chipped another chapter and I was really a me. Did he suspect that Desmond Ford gained during the sting during his review from other theologians and it is really amazing you go to singularly For example you know that the ideal for 2 apartment sinks unity was completely reject it. It doesn't for brothers up and in the seminarians a number of 70 professors and they don't mention names they greet you know that is that is both an excess it's clearly demonstrated and whatever and all of that committee there were 2 responses constantly that fit to him. The rest was just sitting there listening and greeting whatever and that was basically tassel and myself every time he produced a whole document. Criticizing the various things and I still remember about the sanctuary where it seemed the majority of people accepted the view that there were no 2 apartments but fought for simply you know the most holy place in Christ went to the motive of the place and. Justification took place there so what is the what is the need for an investigative judgment because your old judge and so I ask him Are you really sure you know of this one apartment yes yes yes he said now can you Dr. Dr Ford Can you show us some examples of you know of the evil sayings very few know. And he says yes dumb 6 you know next time Oh I'll come so next time I was there you know I didn't see anything but I didn't hear anything in the name corners him again and said you know I'm still waiting OK next time. And up until the death a few days ago he never came back you know so I did the United give me examples examples examples and and then he was something like like. Tillery go on to do this is this is he was constantly taking the floor or speaking of speaking and some of us had hardly any time or found an opening to respond anything and so you know the influence the Desmond Ford had I mean he had great respect and that is the Logans you know and that and and his manuscript I mean it infected many many students. Theologians you know and unfortunately I mean some of them don't speak up clearly today but they're there and his Actually Jesus you know I mean actually does actually Jesus that's that sit you know I mean nobody could match him except when you ask for specific things. He wasn't there. So that has been my experience very disappointing you know and every time he says OK thank you so much downtick thank you so much for Dr Housel you know I think do such things you could see the nation and after this have a year when I saw his documentation and his response what he has done is all I presented against him he has used against us. So that was and tragic experience. I'll just say this well Dr Jon Stewart was dealing with as much for it I was a recent college graduate who is sympathetic to Ford and then I had a conversion experience my eyes were opened and shortly after that probably 983 I was given a paper by Dr Ford I think the title was de la and the Gospel and glace ins and the arguments that Dr Ford used in that paper almost every single one of them is in that book. That book was shocked yeah the one holdout of. All the arguments are in the paper and that book. Of the nation just briefly the atmosphere of you wrote. A piece about Dr Ford passing away and the author of the article mentioned towards the end of the article that nearly all Adna scholars agree with dozens Ford's view of the gospel today and how to isn't the problem as and that's true the problem is as the does one 4th view of the gospel is the false gospel which led him to reject $844.00 and the investigative judgment from the majority of Adam a scholars believe the Gospel doesn't afford we're in big trouble but thankfully God is raising up others to proclaim the true Gospel and God's going to want in the end yes. That's the Lhari books that we're seeing you know they're talking positively about Ford in his gospel really what we have today is is the dominance of this other gospel in our midst it's a Trojan horse in our midst and so what are we going to do about it. But Dr for not only attacked the same tree attacked pretty much our entire eschatological understanding of Bible prophecy. It's a totally different view of in time events but I'd like to. Prove a same that the danger is not so much the liberal left the minister church but conservatives who have been. Looking for exposed influence maybe in infected by evangelical theology. And here in this book for example the one that Pastor Petrik was talking about God's character Chapter 2 deals with a very fundamental question that is what is sin and part of thing that defines the worth of that distinction is a false gospel in the end the real Gospel is our understand understand of sin now what I say this because in this chapter here the author of this chapter if you go to the footnotes he almost always quotes evangelical scholars to support his understanding of sin and that is a very very dangerous thing to do and part of the prom we have in our today is many many members of our church are being quote unquote blessed in rich quote unquote edified by reading evangelical authors even local theologians even pastors we watch them on T.V. I mean Also it is because because because they're not having this but how many avenues of love Joe all Steen love T.D. Jakes love Rick Warren. They read their books see them on television and they're been infected by this even the elegy that goes totally against Afghanistan. And they think it doesn't because it is the real Gospel and therefore now you have a generation Avenue who have been exposed to this and when you hear the real Gospel like saying what was going on here it's an earthquake our critic Douglas. Earthquakes because they don't match my advice is we have no business reading purpose or a life worth of in church all these things we've not even read the great controversy or desire beaches or of the things that billboard has given to us let's get back to God is given to us and will be defended and protected from the false gospel women. The problem for 20th Century AD The does M We sometimes focused on basic Adventists doctrines like unique doctors like the Sabbath state of the dead prophecies we focus so much on that throughout our Vangelis to come Payne's we just every year evangelistic I'm paying comes and you keep hearing State of the dead Sabbaths prophecies Daniel revelation and we keep hearing those but we thought we kind of we didn't hear much about conversion. True justification true sense vacation perfection you don't want to talk about that and that just experience you talk about savage talk about the mark of the beast and things that and so after 203-040-5060 years of 20th century Adventism we don't hear enough messages on that central pillar of salvation theology you start thinking that well that's because we share those with Protestants no need to talk to to talk about that because we share that with Haven't as with other Protestants right and I think that's how it kind of got infused when you don't emphasize something you forget about it. You would be amazed as to how many of those speakers you love to listen to D.V.D.'s and C.D.'s and broadcasts that are preaching our doctrines and that are preaching evangelism and prophecy who are infected with the the gospel to one degree or another be very careful to look to know who you're listening to and what the keys are to a false gospel and they're very easy. False view of sin false view of Christ nature falls for you of justification false view of perfection it's not hard to detect I'd like you to address this one as quickly as you can by what mean we've discussed up to fall but let's go back to a little early in time but I won't means is the evangelical gospel become established within Adventism can you trace that dialogue in the 1950 S. wanting to be freed from the cult label listening to evangelical teachers as we go to their schools to be taught by them. Radio Listening to broadcast that we feel are very interesting and they have a lot of good things to say and finally it becomes part of our unconscious system and we're trapped music music thank you very much Dan as Larry go ahead I just want to add one little thought too which is that we're we're kind of coming hard on the event Jellicoe I think it's I could safely say this you know although we don't agree with their theological points we love the evangelicals we have a lot in common with them we appreciate them but but as far as shifting from a Bible based theology to something that is different and that has spun itself into what it is since 844 that's not our work it's just not our work so we can love them and appreciate them and respect them but that doesn't mean we need to adopt their gospel and in fact what we need to do is we need to be clear about these things and we need to share with them you know. OK this is our 3rd text this is a text and this is 315 promises that God will put entity hatred between Satan and the woman between his seed and seed. Why is this necessary Well I think we understand that but nonetheless there's the question. If that energy wasn't put there every human being would have become a lover of evil without restraint and there would have been no possibility of selfish. And $1620.00 wonderful verse and we all know that Satan cross Jesus Christ Satan under his feet under his foot right that Satan bite Jesus bite Satan's heel right to Satan by. Jesus's heal on the cross that's it that's Genesis $315.00 but look at here Romans $6.20 and the God of peace will crush Satan under whose feet. I'm going to beat and the God of peace will crush such Satan under your feet shortly the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with you a man who is going to crush Satan. God but who under whose feet. Our feet so the the cross was in the final crushing it says here that he needs to crush seeds and under our feet shortly Amen praise the lord thank you is the reformation to be strictly defined on the basis of the teachings only of Martin Luther and John Calvin 3 main branches of the Reformation the magisterial Reformation is Luther Calvin's willingly then there's the Elizabethan Reformation the Church of England and we get Methodism out of that and we're pretty closely related to Methodism and holiness and then there's the radical reformation so-called And the radical reformation has 2 main parts Ellen White is pretty hard on the radical that the the the fanatical part in great controversy but there's a whole other part that we get the Anabaptist and the Baptists from and you know a lot of avenues came originally from the Methodist and the Baptist churches because of their hybrid high regard for scripture so there's 3 main branches of the Reformation and unlike the chapter that I've mentioned here on justification it was just virtually pure Lutheran theology and that's not Luther's theology I said pure Lutheran theology not the theology of Martin Luther necessarily so we often hear however in our publications we hear about Luther Luther Luther and Lutheran in the fact is that we have strong roots in the RAF so called radical reformation and in the Elizabeth from information and in fact moment very few were really obvious were Lutheran in any respect so we appreciate the things we gain from them but we've got to be careful that in what's coming in and many times in our very own publications as you would know there was anything but one group the Reformation it equals Lutheran No that's one part of the total and we appreciate parts of that but we have our roots really in other systems other Protestant systems and it's very very dangerous and it's misleading if I may say to portray the Reformation is being Martin Luther and that's that's you know full stop sentence stops right there no there's more. One of the reasons why we have a strong emphasis on Luthor is a D.V.D. great controversy and you look at Bronson it is in there are 4 chapters about Luther. One chapter about weekly. One chapter about hers one chip about suing me a little section on Kelvin so if you analyze why did she do this then you can see that each one of those reformers made a contribution but Lou this contribution or search an important contribution because he of course you know you have to keep in mind he was one of the 1st generation you know a former symbol for whatever he did but he emphasized. The Bible in the Bible only. As a very important thing. Yes searingly did something Calvin or whatever but if you're a little late at all and whatever but Luther elevators got Luther to spearhead the attack on the beast basically Izzy there was no one who was seemed to be so bolt. Undetermined to go after this you see show that isn't a very important thing and today even in our church the hermeneutical the discussions here in regard to what especially happening in the North American division of whatever you see that we have the part from the idea that everything needs to be a step is by the Bible and by baloney and I think it is high time that we go back to this and demonstrate is even in evangelism that we really difficult to nudity of the reformers following Luther No not all the other points of of Luther but specifically the emphasis on the Bible in the Bible only and in order to get this before the masses of the people it doesn't to mend the secular face that Luther had to make and I think that indicates it spends 4 chapters dealing with Luther Let me read something to you from looters R.-K. real quick this is from preface to the abyssal to Romans by Luther he said this about justification by faith faith is not the human notion and dream that some people call faith faith is a divine work in us which changes us and makes us to be born again of God It kills the old Adam makes us altogether different men in heart and spirit and mind and powers it brings with it the Holy Spirit Oh it is a living busy active mighty thing this fate it is impossible for the faith not to be doing good works incessantly it does not even ask whether good works are to be done but before the question is asked it has already done them and it's constantly doing them this is fate whoever does not do such works however is an unbeliever faith is a. Having Dearing confidence in God's grace so sure and certain that the believer would stake his life on it a 1000 times this knowledge often confidence in God's grace makes men glad and board and happy this is the work which the Holy Spirit performs in us through faith because if it without compulsion a person is ready and glad to do good works to everyone to serve everyone to suffer everything out of love and praise to God who has shown him disgrace it is impossible to separate works from faith quite as impossible as to separate heat and light from fire this is the year I was really curious for myself as to why I heard so much about Luther and Calvin I took a look at my library shelf the other day and I found a section of books that wide on my library shelf on just Luther and Calvin that I was assigned to read when I went to Andrews University I took a look for books on and a baptism the Anabaptist background the more A.V.N. background not one book that I was asked to read in my graduate study that's why we've had some of the issues that we've had. What are the similarities between the Kellogg apostasy and the modern books of the new order similarity. It's an attack at the heart of Adventism So we were senior to city and one thing that we need to understand is this when we were spoken seat focusing here on you know false gospel truth Ospel Aves the evidence doctrine it it we have our pillars but the pillars don't stand like this administers the ology doctrine. In areas like this a case like similarity between Kellogg's a pasta box that when you want Right right OK So basically if you take one pill or outbuilding crashes down Kellogg attack the same story this whole thing about overcoming sin not accrue sin is a misunderstanding of the century doctrine when used in a century doctrine and which is do when everything is perfect sense Gelug attack that and a day when the same attack is a moment you see here that we have been warned about the hope was to see in the moment of apostasy and if you look at Kellogg and analyze his writings and oh yes Mrs appendices him in general terrible but if you carefully look at it but Kelo did is introducing a foreign approach to the Bible of foreign hermeneutic that spiritualize has many elements now elements says Oh I am afraid of the old me guy because disseminate what you see did though do books that her are not presently being produced is again they deal with how to interpret the Bible the whole issue today as English of you was how do we interpret the Bible and so like can look spiritual I still wake the plain reading of the word today in a North American division and whenever you this the new books or the new order is spiritualizing away the correct understanding of the Bible and therefore it is extremely dangerous because if we accept deuce new approaches and new hermeneutics we have no leg anymore to stand up and you do splitting away with the masses. Thank you very much we'll let's move on to another one this is our last text we got just a few minutes ago from a lady called Bonnie what is the essence of Christ's character. That we want reproduced in our character in my last presentation Christ to close and $3.00 to $4.00 says the completeness of Christian character is attained when the Poles the boss other springs forth constantly for more than and then again the context of Christ object lessons page 16 out of the character of Christ being perfectly reproduced is connected to the fruits of the Spirit which are love joy peace and so forth that's the essence of the question you have to ask yourself is are do you have a desire to constantly be a blessing to others or are you living for yourself so that you will have things your way that's basically the difference between being converted and I'm converted. Still books I have. I have a copy here of for the one it's a book published by the one project and I think it was 2014. I read through it. But I want to go to page 1221 of the all things as a says this is Speaking of heresy and he says this in regard to heresy when it's that is heresy and I quote really ugly head through perfectionism exclude story exclusivist remnant theology last generation theology date setting or just the general heresy of Christians not loving one on one another there's only one response so it's last generation theology with heresy and just further up in the previous paragraph and this is this relates to what I've just read here. Another term you know this little statement he makes which is synonymous with last generation theology is that it's a theological and behavioral narcissism. Anybody want to comment on that I guess my response to that is they are accusing us of that. The judge may a may appear as about to fall but it does not fall it remains while sin is in Zion will be sifted out the chaff will be separated from the precious wheat What are your thoughts on this statement. The same is pretty self-explanatory but one thing that's worth mentioning is sometimes people say oh there's the invisible church and I'm so sick of the organized body that I'm just going to be part of the end was about and I'm leaving the organization but that statement makes it clear that the centers are sifted out while the righteous remain so there is a visible body that the true believers will remain part of so if you're saying that it's time to jump ship that's that's heresy and that statement makes it clear that the ship will go through it's not theoretical it will go through and the righteous will remain on the ship and you know you best if you. You remember when you asked a question earlier what's the difference between true Gospel in the false gospel here I want to tell you that in a little bit because in the. In the false gospel justification is simply being declared righteous and that is the Gospel and that means any change of heart you have any change of lifestyle you have are not salvation all issues right now want to think about that for me because I'm going to come to this question. If being born again is not part of the gospel if sanctification is not part of the gospel there is no relevant to whether you're saved their loss. That means if you believe that you can say that sanctification and keeping the commandments including the Sabbath are not salvation all issues which these authors do say and if they're not salvation issues then imagine when the crisis comes. And you know if you don't believe the Sabbath keeping has anything to do a Salvation. When the crisis comes a national person is going to say well God alone or stand if I'm not ready to die over this. And so I'm just going to be a loving Christian. And I won't lose myself because I've been declared righteous and I'm going to drop the Sabbath and God will understand this thinking is the devil strategy to get evidence to accept the mark of the beast and though it's going to happen in such large numbers that it will look like there's nothing left what is the difference between the seal of the Holy Spirit and the seal of God mentioned in Revelation 7 What is the difference between the seal of the Holy Spirit and the seal of God As mentioned in Revelation Chapter 7. In the New Testament and that is something that each one of us can experience right now. But the whole context of the seed of the Living God is. Response of who will stand you know when the Lord comes and those who have been receiving the last day she'll still it has to do with the Holy Spirit but this involves the Sabbath in a very special way. And those who do this other 144000 that are going through the Final Crisis. Another thing is that a lot of people don't understand progressive perfection and final perfection progressive professional and White says is that when we give all of our hard to Christ it's complete surrender 100 percent when every sin that I know I confess and for sake it with the Lord. God accounts me as perfect. He looks at me and he says if he knew more he would give more what he knew he gave to me he's perfect in Christ and that's called progressive perfection you are see you have obtained the seal of the Holy Spirit the Holy Spirit speaks to the heart you have the witness of the Holy Spirit those dear works in you right now and the Fusion's 113 says that we were sealed by the point justification were sealed by the Holy Spirit. Says that there is more. Education Page one of 6 the germination of the seed represents the beginning of spiritual life and the development of the plant is a figure of the development of character at every stage of development our life may be perfect yet if God's purpose for us is fulfilled there will be constant advancement spiritual growth is attained through cooperation with divine agency of the Holy Spirit so at every stage we may be perfect now today when I am born again I'm a little born again Baby I'm perfect for that stage of development but if after 20 years of living in church I'm still just a baby there's a problem I'm not perfect and I need to get it done I got to eat some spiritual food and get and become a mature men and women in Christ like you got that one right gotta move on to another text one of the objections against last generation theology. Is the concept that being without a mediator means being without. Read again. One of the objections against last generation theology is the concept that being without a mediator of being means being without a savior and a response. Or savior forgives us any also saves us from arson so forgiving grace is completed watering out of sun But we still haven't ever won grace from the savior that enables us to work through the time without a mediator. Yes You know actually I may have mix this up with another one there was another one that said the same pretty much the same thing but it mentioned after the close of probation. If we don't have a mediator after the close of reversion of that mean that we don't have a Savior I should have actually asked you that one I don't know if it got any more angles on the. Christ this is not just justifying grace there's also sanctifying grace after the close of probation there's no more there's no more repentance there's no more justification Christ finishes his intercession and he can not justify the sinner so justifying grace is not available but he's grace is not just a vacation His grace is for keeping me from sin so after the cause of probation Well I still need Jesus Yeah I'm not going to still need him to forgive me for my sin because I'm not going to do it I'm going to need him for keeping me from sin he's the seal of God is the Holy Spirit seal his presence in my heart crucify my 1st will I need Jesus more than ever in the during the course of. The question was asked by an administering it is equally clear that Sister white states that we should be without an intercessor to the time of trouble but the question makes it sound like that person does not believe what is written so if we do not believe in a person says that's a whole other issue we got to deal with we still have a savior right he has just moved out from the most holy place pastor did you have your hand up yeah I did you remember when we asked about why 2000 years. You know you think about Israel they had a special mission and they failed as a nation and then that church became corrupt. And then we have Adventism And you know the question is are we going to fail. I think coming down to the and what God has been trying to do is develop a generation that understands their need of him on a level that no other generation has and so I would say that living without an intercessor the only people who can do that are the ones who've known how much they need Jesus on a greater level than anyone else was ever lived except for a few little examples here and there like the Nick and so on. How important is evangelism in the experience of the last generation and I would add not just from the all important standpoint of bringing souls to Jesus but what effect will it have upon the lives of the last generation as they engage in soul winning. You spoke about. From what we see in the presentation from the statements from inspiration you won't have completeness of Christian character if you're not. Engaged in soul wanting and that's natural it's not a checklist thing it's surrender to the Lord and I love him so much I'm sharing Jesus with others I'm not just a silent witness but I'm a demonstration of his character and I want to bring as many people with me to the kingdom as possible that has to be part of our experience if we're going to be part of the last generation you know. You know I believe it's in gospel workers or Christian service forget exactly around the White House to tell the story of this one individual who was true walking this to the snow and he came across another individual who was pretty much almost dead because of the freezing and in the process of him helping him up and carrying him and walking with him what happened to him he began to get the blood circulation begin to sweat and the very fact that he helped this individual saved his own life and so when we are again just soul winning we are helping ourselves because of I'm going to give a Bible study and guess what I must do I must study I must pre I must feed myself before I could see someone else and so in order for us to develop that character of Christ in order for us to have the Word of God in our hearts we must be actively involved in soul winning. Jesus taught the truth of course. But spent most of his time helping in healing What implications do you see in this for the last generation and I'm circled not just helping but healing the medical missionary work as the right arm of the 3rd Angel's masses and so that's part of the work of Christ's. He spent the majority of his time in a ministry of healing and that opens up people's hearts to listening to the spoken word and the teaching of the word and. As the statement from ministry of healing says Christ method alone will bring true success he saw others good and then eventually he says Come on follow me and that's the method that will be successful for us as we share this message as well to open balls and open. Let me ask you in addition to that up to my Melty. Soon as you are a physician Some people might listen to the medical missionary work do you have to be a licensed doctor or license nurse to be involved in medical missionary work clearly not because if you're seeking others a good and if you understand even simple remedies you don't have to be a medical doctor Now having said that don't go on pro cooperate I've seen that happen and they say they're doing medical missionary work please don't do that that's such a bad way and that's but. A legitimate Bible and spirit of prophecy based interest in people's health in anybody can do that. You know it's amazing that this whole holistic idea of Christ preaching teaching in healing if you look in the educational institutions colleges or universities you know that is. Not at all basically being done. And the reason is I mean yes there are some lectures but there are very few practitioners. That is that and so in my research for my doctoral dissertation I discovered that. You know really if you want to develop or follow Christ methods then you need to incorporate it so I still remember that I decided there you know I better get this education and so I was going to Loma Linda. You know to take an degree in public health and I was at the same time doing some teaching in the seminary and a number of professors said you know Damn Steve this is the greatest disc with this detour that you can do in your life you know now you are you know getting your doctorate in the state in this area their own it's Bill your beans Dean in those other areas so I went there and I met my wife and we both caught our degree there then we got into the pastoral ministry and we used medical missionary work as we had been taught there at Loma Linda. You know with all the health programs over there and we had and to Mendel's amount of solving successful softening as a result of this then when it came back to the seminary when they wanted to me to teach there I wanted to have a workshop in natural enemies and they said no no you know you're not hired us in the Church history department I said OK can I do it somewhere else let's see a while to it or you know whatever you do there that is OK so then they held their workshop I introduced their while to the workshop and that your devotees and I the therapy and then the incur of the students the money went to outvote the next year they asked me to craft it at the seminary. Simply for different tension reasons and for 17 years they have had every year for the Sherman any students workshop in their children until are retired you know but I mean you know and I have seen this success study in soul winning and it is incredible so anybody who says you know doesn't work they don't know what are you talking about James 127 pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is what to visit orphans and widows in their trouble and to keep oneself unspotted from the world we focus on keep ourselves in spite of from the world but what's the beginning this is it orphans and widows in their trouble medical missionary work is the part of pure undefiled religion figure I cannot help but say thank you all right last question. So where do we go from here. How would you answer those who love and subscribe to the last generation truth Ana wondering how best to go forward and promote how what you have any counsel this is the last 12 or 3 of you then we have to finish I came across the reason for this whole symposium this weekend in 2 sentences the elder Ted Wilson wrote in a recent review Satan will not give up his fight to neutralize the distinctive eschatological messages intrusted to 7th Day Adventists to proclaim in these last days we are to make plain the Bible truth as it is in Jesus so that no one will be deceived by Satan in 2 sentences that's why we're here this afternoon and all day and last night. We are being neutralized our distinctive method message of Adventism is being neutralized these 4 books and I'm expecting more to come these 4 books are having an impact on my work right now as a revivalist for amazing facts and they will continue to be a real danger as we move ahead so what can we do every one of us you me every one are going to be witnesses for truth or for error. Either way we're going to be witnessing for truth or for error in our families in our Sabbath school classes in our church board meetings in going to conference. Meetings we are the witnesses that God is counting on right now that's how we go forward he gets beakers in that promote this message and do it the best he can I realize sometimes there's opposition and you know find ways to get speaker isn't that will promote this true gospel message that will prepare people for the coming of Jesus and and you have a lot of power you are the people in your church you're the members you're the constituents of your church you can use your voice to be. Helpful and promoting this it's not just want to cheap people that you can push this is this is something you can do individually me in your church as well this is the 7th Day Adventist message we have a label last generation theology but what we're really talking about is the sanctuary understanding victory over sin having Christ formed within We're just talking about Bible Christianity this must live in your local churches you as the members of the here of Sacramento central and all the ones who are listening where you are scattered across the planet in your local church the message of the 7th the obvious church God gave it to us it must live in our churches you need to make sure the lives in your churches be be out of mint be definite. Don't be grumpy as. Yes but as you be Christ like says stay in the message that God raised up his people to deliver and to live and Adi believe that the Holy Spirit will bless you God's blessings will be upon you. And this work is going to finish in a powerful message stronger than anything we've seen in 2000 years but it won't happen if you're relying on. A set of speakers or the right book to be published you as the members of the 7th Day Adventist Church you are the once you are the witnesses God help us all to have the message that God has given the 7th Day Adventist Church live in your local 7th having his church as a lottery thank you very much this media was brought to you by audio force a website dedicated to spreading God's word through free sermon audio and much more if you would like to know more about audio verse if you would like to listen to more servant leader Visit W W W audio verse or.

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