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Ellen White or the Bible, Part 1

Mark Howard


Mark Howard

Director, Emmanuel Institute of Evangelism



  • December 31, 2009
    9:30 AM
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my name is a leader and I'm not supposed to be Doctor Howard second bedroom they are the general program here is that he'll be presenting excellence points I was a more or less of a theory in regard to their prophecy and my job is to tell stories I like stories spent twenty years in the classroom night I've come to come to the conclusion that if you're not teaching with the story are probably not teaching because it will remember stories and other things are less tangible and so I'm unreleased with the dissector but I do hate to waste anybody's time and perhaps will starting with the stories left fielder father we thank you for this beautiful opportunity to draw together with friends brothers sisters and focus focus our thoughts focus our lives we thank you for this occasion for this entire program thank you for the opportunity especially in this little breakout session here the focus time on what must you surely be one of the greatest gifts you given to mankind Lord we do not deserve that you can go to any extra effort to guide us were told that we didn't even need the Bible if we just have our heads on straight and the Scriptures are all sufficient guide and that we should clearly held away from them but that because we chanced to be blind because we tend to be self willed because the rate and down you gone an extra mile or two or three or so mod fallows and we praise you for that letter it is asked that you would bless us now and guide as we spend this time pretty good bit faster Howard Lord I am at a loss to know exactly what has occurred in his life by the credit is safe and well and that you will work all things in your good time thank you for this now and gives me okay well I would like to ask that them some good soul who the bathroom could signal very very clearly when you see just how excessive is just so I know it's what's happening there okay let's see if they want to steal the thunder and might have lined up for a specific poison that faster will be talking about I don't want to spend some time with stories and things like a lamb it out basically as is the but if I might ball here is to inspire confidence in your hearts and your minds in very practical tangible ways so that when you read something that comes from a fire source you will not sit there and we go you will not fit their and say I wonder I wonder that's true I wonder if I promise really with you on those questions because you and when you have confidence and inspired First Amendment you take it any run with it that's that's simply put in my life and my experience in my study of address history those who had taken God 's counsel both of the Bible is very processing and placed their full weight upon it and said I'm going to go ahead God has never let them down in S what we're here to have reinforced their minds and down whenever you want me to the vacant general remarks status and given word okay and well we have we have one microphone and you and I can assure you just a quick start the gym and the name of Doctor David Paulson David Paulson and Doctor David Kress were taking some additional medical studies at the University of Michigan at Ann Arbor and down this was so what year was this probably about nineteen oh three year something like that if you get exactly nineteen oh seven nineteen oh seven and down mode of Michigan used to have a lot of malaria Michigan the rest of the malaria there I don't know if it's not is not really a big thing and where I come from now if it's not the same malaria as they have in Africa and some other ads that these Wizard world okay but there was an indigenous United States North American malaria and it don't be a regular basis the best thing that they had to deal with it was quite an hilarious cause there's little plans Modi and Gizmodo gets in your blood in the outpost of these reproduction cycles every now and then a million and a half these little guys hatch out the new M is not die in your battle that in another twenty four hours later now five million to match out and you does not die in the own the trademark later funny and in the quinine will kill off that the Plasmodium big enough quinine he lets his bloodstream the less stuff off but the line between killing it join you would like about that that would therefore part of those kind of a tricky thing you are trying to kill them both out on the patient Paulson and Chris said spare prophecy says we can do this stuff without drugs and is implemented as we set off using it on a regimen of hydrotherapy which I would instantly recommend you becoming familiar with it will be call for it trust me ma'am they set off using a regimen hydrotherapy with a camera the details of right now and they were roundly criticized by then medical fraternity that they were working with at that point because quinine was like the cutting-edge company that's like so backward well they challenge that Facebook actually got a controlled study setup where alternating patients would be sent to either the hydrotherapy group or the other claiming and they did this also Long nineteen oh seven vices by disseminating a sexy visiting reporter the DC Festival seven so probably oh six and eventually become good things are worth showing up but it finally came down the point where this is one old guy came in and he was so sick he was it waited so long he was so nearly detonated a blood sample on him and it was like about exaggerating here beyond ninety percent Plasmodium Egyptian letter something you have a listen really really really tough shape but according to the alternating schedule he was posting on the quinine group in the quinine doctor took one look at him and said I wanted my minds eye my score is not his fact is God is leading them to Paulson and Chris in a parade and they said Lord you have told us does your prophecy this is your time this is your time to show that it works and they undertook his case a a few welcome to week he was good it was good that he is a quick summary these are the after results of the course of study there I think when a group some with deafness in repairable impaired mentality others with numerous minor complications so nicely put mentality but my heart it was a rough game the high deserve a group not one with serious applications now okay you can see that as a plug for hydrotherapy which ate it is principle of this verbosity why did they have the guts to do that as they read someplace some little lady said it were God calls us to use it when we proper circumstances not now and not knocking modern medicine okay but under the right circumstances followed by counsel remark and morning as both of them you can access and handout that was one of my challenges this morning about every Kinko's to maximize me copying if you can now I don't know I only have a hundred days if I don't know how many are in here I would just ask that you can share you do so has anybody here when we get the scoop on as anybody here felt like you walk in circles a monitoring assembly life the planning committee didn't figure we need more exercise and establish going all around the last night and ran into a couple of friends who I went this roundabout way following the signs and and and they were behind me and I met up with them so I started that's when I started thinking about that and racing over trying to find a place this morning I got the idea room one oh two in my head as I already running behind and it was two oh eight cell anyway are you doing this morning you want to learn as their proxy right I want to tell you something there are a lot of great seminars here and I always sometimes why I think about it and wondered to myself you know is this a little overkill because you just can't do everything forcefully audio versus your recording them but I want to tell you you made the right choice and I saw you why that is every one of these seminars you go to is preaching Adventist doctrine Adventist doctrine by nature of our beliefs is shaped by the spirit of prophecy and if you're not clear on the spirit of prophecy here's is going to happen you're going to eat you begin to doubt the veracity is reprising everything else you hear here will be thrown out the window I mentioned last night my introduction that Illinois makes statement in fact it's in your handout let me get my handout here your hand on any gagging and upset with a summer stumbling around Marina statements from the use second page to the top of the page C says Satan is the last deception read what Ellen White says here in the book selected messages volume one page forty eight she says the very last deception of Satan will be to make of none effect the testimony of the Spirit of God where there is no vision the people perish Satan will work ingeniously in different ways and through different agencies to unsettle the competence of God 's remnant people and injured testimony speaking about the idea especially through her writing that were told that this is Satan 's last deception that he is going to impose upon God 's people were to talk about why he works in that method met that manner rather and what regular time together to really get a tried to establish a biblical foundation for the gift of prophecy and when I mean by that is there are a lot of questions today about the gift of prophecy I think mostly because most people including Adventists don't know what the Bible teaches about profits and so they say what you think about how and why what will you do it within the church how should only be has to be taken only in comparison with the Bible what level should see beyond what we understood what a Bible profit wise we would answer we have answers to this question what happens is most of course Adventists have probably more reason than others to understand the Bible says about profits most Protestant denominations they don't there are a nonprofit visit Canada Scripture close and NATO have any need to know is when they hear the word prophet to get all kinds of ideas that are based on any biblical understand is only one is a biblical understanding them so I'm glad that you're here Dave very glad you're here especially this morning and day because he was sharing their love it from his book hindsight and Dave has done a lot of research and evidence history of some of the some of the the repercussions that we've experienced when Minneapolis church has not followed the council to get the proxy it's never been good and that should tell us something the church prosperous when we follow the guidance is given to Ellen White and when we us we find ourselves struggling and and final kinds of problems in the church were not following the Council and out of Ellison budgeting so I like to do is I would like to kneel and ask God 's blessing on their meager time we have here and I Matthew value has with me here you're kind of in a precarious position to Neil Gaiman and the onus got the be with us during this time okay gracious father father we are so thankful that we can be here at UIC that we can be spiritually recharged by not only the messages but the fellowship of like-minded believers Lord we believe that you're coming is very soon and we know that the devil is going to pull out all the stops trying to deceive even the very elected Lord we just pray that through the word of truth we would be fortified to that time bless us now in our study we ask in Jesus name amen I wanted to be just a little bit of an overview of what were going to cover the work were covering obviously were doing six sessions here and we broken up into three main parts in regard to the session that were covering now in the hand of Saul and Ellen Whitehorn the Bible which is really an inconsistent concept which will talk about but only to the Bible that's a question on a man is asking well in fact on the river to you in a moment refer you to an article it was Indiana's visit in the review by Stephen Chavez entitled are we still Protestant and the implication was enforced a Protestant why we rely so much on Ellen White as if to take Ellen White's writings is going against the Protestant principle of the Bible the Bible only noticed a something up front and this don't believe in the Bible and the spirit of prophecy and is believe in the Bible alone that's why we believe in the spirit of prophecy because the Bible alone tells us that there will be profits in the church and specifically that there will be a lasting profit if we believe the Bible we had no option but to look for the gift of prophecy and a lasting church is natural to this Bible or Ellen White is really a deception of the enemy even the phrasing of that of the statement but that's what is asked the lots were to spend her time in this session in the next session on hammering out out a little bit organ followed that up by talking about in the next two sessions about the nature of inspiration how does inspiration work and how does it affect how we read and understand what elbowing row something had come up to me last night are asking about you know what is inspired and what isn't inspired by Ellen White in other words are there things that only wrote that aren't inspired versus things that are inspired money answer to that is yes but I told him that I think the problems that we run into in the church are not because of inspiration but application in other words we say Wells this inspired we ask that sometimes people ask you not only need this one statement now is that as inspired as this statement over here at wrong times asking if it doesn't make sense to me so it must not yes viruses we can't make sense of it it has to do with our application of the statement and maybe understanding the hermeneutic of the statement rather than the statement being inspired or not inspire some of you talk about inspiration and how to understand how to rightly divide the word of truth as it is in the Bible and in the spirit of Rusty looking into three general hermeneutical principles that's just a fancy word for how to read and understand correctly and that that'll be the next two sessions and last is the last two sessions we have together will be spending time dealing with a lot of the critics accusations against Ellen White both in the church now the church things like plagiarism the shut door all this Internet nonsense were to spend some time with that money night I called nonsense because it is not because of trying to demean anybody but you'll find that a lot of these things are the critics bring up about Ellen White are oftentimes taken out of context if not entirely false rumors and so that's that's kind of an overview opportunity on our time together and I would tell you again your understanding on this subject will determine from my perspective and I believe more than my perspective will determine whether you're going to make I really believe that Ellen White said something to this effect she said all who believe that the Lord has given sister why to message will be safe from the many delusions that will come in these last days well what's the implication the cotton account a counter of that built those who don't believe the Lord has given us that it's your own messenger what have you won't be set and so I will start with and move over here second spread my papers out the office and out yes okay good good good now I want to take this handout only to the Bible once you notice first two points their error very opinions about the prophetic gifts I'm just a review these first three some feel that the way we regard the gift of prophecy today should be the way we've always regarded it whatever way that has been some earnings at sure and other really annoying we need to stand my ground happens like this that we need to stand by what we've always believing Athens enumerate one of that one of the problems of people brought Adventist if they really don't know what they believe people come into the ethnic church had to study their way into the church building is jointly administered young like all you know it's close to my house the other method is the site where the Methodist Church of the bastards but the mouse although they are the Congregational churches but my health they don't do that with the administer the money to study their way again but unfortunately seventy ad minutes to figure up in the church don't have to study and in fact often times when we were not very big we can isolate as a blanket statement Minneapolis not very grounded me next is the reality we spent little time in the Scripture and that when we do spend time in the Scripture to verify our beliefs wow there's nothing like our mess nothing like others number to agree that recognize and get the proxy is important but feel that the role of Ellen White should be somewhat diminished in today's Adventism you know we don't do much with Ellen White rock too much about Illinois to share with you something here we have a little weird different generations that are reflected here in this crowd I myself just turned forty three years old while down in August so it was just kind of my generation and older generations and perhaps even one generation behind but I think it in my generation pretty much chance in any older generations you get chance to look at evidence history and say we've just done so much damage with Ellen White but we don't want to do any more damage so were not meant to bring her up I met a young man to get a rise this year I taught her to rise this year and I run the manual Institute of evangelism that is untraceable like a rise in the in the Michigan only better I felt that I think that he could arise each year and are taught the spirit of prophecy and talk this year will dispute one of our students his name is Marty from Australia and Marty told me he is going up his whole life his anatomist might have an e-mail had an easement unapologetic into the rise program and after the prospect is that this is a grace of tiny I really need to start reading out and never ran anything buyer is in Australia you know we know that she's a part of the church but you don't talk about her visit of a pastor quotes Alan why he's really look down upon and this is the evidence is in he's grown up in an silent make a blanket and on this hunt talk with my dad I talked with my dad about this and he knows among the reasons yet we so abused Alan Weiner said that the difference for the young generation in they don't care who abused him they just want to know the truth that's my perception Encino the younger generation okay Harris quick crying about the past what is the truth okay so they would be as light so they may be losing the Bible and everything else history is full of that but when we get it I would have used it and then pat each other on the back neck pity parties now cry together hug each other because even you don't want to hurt one another and find out God 's truth leave aside the area go forward preparing for Jesus to come that's the difference I see with the younger generational regeneration happen to be my generation above you'll kill it you probably have heard more of that in as the adults talk to see what our young people need is is that I probably shouldn't say their alternatives e.g. lysine and abomination from my standpoint DY seat in other words it's if the adults driving with young people need of smiling CYC of young people is that you know what we want truth in it or not getting it working again somewhere the other they pulled together a grassroots movement where basically they are on a quest for being God 's remnant people to fulfill the mission got a note that was a little third number three still others are convinced that the writings of Ellen White are archaic to be polite if they would say more they would say probably worse in that while Illinois may have been good for her times he's totally irrelevant in today's church so these these generators are generalizations but this is what I run into many times this kind of mindset if you look at the next micro- Wikipedia article that I pulled off the Internet on Illinois inspiration here's some of what it says when she looked at some point under Wikipedia article sub one seven and Dennis believe church cofounder Ellen G White was inspired by God as a prophet today understood as a manifestation of the New Testament gift of prophecy as described in the official twenty on the monopolies of the church her inspiration is considered authoritative yet not infallible like your scholars today her works are officially considered to hold a secondary role to the Bible but in practice there is a wide variation among and then assess to exactly how much authority should be attributed to her right very telling statement is accurate very accurate in that last part this is what the church officially believes that in practice there's a lot of difference in the gap and actually believe I think it important for you to understand that people who believe in the spirit of prophecy are not conservative at the Adventists understand that this is what the church officially believes the semiautomated why don't I know I don't like that I believe it this way okay fine you're not an end to end and is believed that first statement is accurate but there are many who say there in the church is that I don't necessarily agree with with that about Illinois and one two this is continuing the article there's always been a significant variation in the administered regarding Illinois inspiration today both critics and mainstream Adventists believe that segments of the church exist which overuse her writings and and that may be very true I'm back I know has been through in the past again assuming Hillary used her writings overuse our miss use the the Bible that we get rid of the people misuse Alan White's writings of you think I'm good I will write why is he behind because he wants to not read the stuff right a small minority of the church believes she was infallible many conservative administered the place greater emphasis on her writings and less emphasis on her humanity infallibility than other Adventist talk about that as we go on liberal or progressive Adventists this is just return the articles written I don't like the terms personally the liberal and conservative because it makes it it gives the illusion that you can have multiple phantasms in on others here's the Son of Man is believably what you want no listen this is what we believe in having us believe the reason we is evidently we do as we study the Bible is the closest we can come to cancel reply matters because the Adventist church is is outlined in Scripture it comes the closest of polyvinyl many church I know and it fits the description of the prophetic remnant church in the Bible but anyway here's in these different viewpoints and when she noticed the last section their letter three it which is number three rather which is the bottom of the page still in the article an estimated eighty one percent of Adventist believe quote the writings about why our authority for the average church today according to two thousand two worldwide survey of local church leaders resorted an estimated fifty percent believe reinterpretation is needed today according to the same survey an estimated forty one percent quote read the writings of Ellen G White at least monthly according to the value Genesis studies the percentage of self identified Adventists studying happiness goals who read Ellen White's writings at least once a week was thirteen percent in nineteen ninety and six percent in two thousand and eight two thousand nine on telling you we we just have gotten with this what this gift under the rug so to speak so I'm going to jump ahead in the handout page two where it says number two what is a profits what is a prophet Doctor Charles E Wenger used to be a Dean of theological seminary energy to research methodology made a statement methodology medicine made the statement all research begins with a dictionary if you don't understand the terminology you don't understand that being said right I tell people when you're starting the finals has enzymes wrestling with the Bible and we we trying to make your some of these things are gone not verbally inspired some of the things I say are our own pet peeves of mine in the Navy accurate and legitimate or maybe not we have so comes down Bible versions today why can't read the King James we get the missing enzyme okay I like the new thinking that's when I give well we need something easier while we need something easy around we need something easier what people learn foreign languages in three years they can't learn everything James yeah and so and so there's some of that has to do with personal application I'm not against different Bible translations but the point is a bitnet on the people study I challenge you to understand the dictionary with you expand your vocabulary don't dumb it down right we need to understand terminology no argument it was not actually go to the dictionary for the terminology for the explanation of what a property is under the Bible and the Bible to find profit if I asked the question of anybody today in the world at large where profit was what would they probably say okay so it makes predictions on many hotels the future is a consistent pretty much how many of you with the evidence consistent with what you probably hear from now I don't profit all yeah that's unable to answer let's see what the Bible says about a problem in Exodus chapter four Exodus chapter four and starting in verse ten I love this passage as it is for an verse ten how many of you are in a practice of sharing your faith I see more hands here because that's what it means to be a Christian Jesus said the Son of Man came to what we can say that when you lost them and he told his followers as the father sent me so send I you somehow the one thing that he cannot actively sharing your faith when you leave the wife see you all about determining the actively share your faith known as now this is why many people don't read what Moses said most of all people this great leader that God raised up firsthand and Moses said to the Lord all my lord I am not eloquent neither before nor since you have spoken to your servant but I am slow of speech and slow up top I never said that but I can't not talk to anybody you are now enabling Moses sent no one this is what the Lord said to Moses and I think he says the same thing to us Lord said to him who has made man's mouth alone makes the mute deaf or the scene the scene of the blind cannot I the Lord will never go and I will teach I will be with your mouth and teach you what you shall say you believe the Lord still works that way the Lord I don't know how God says no I mean your mouth I'll give you what to say when the time to honey believe the word of God today RIAA men now notice most this then in verse thirteen I just love this they said all along please send my band of what whomever you may fan lights and anybody but me and him and on that as well listed that in the Bible says so the anger of the Lord was kindled against Moses and he said is not apparently find your brother I know that he can speak well and love he is also coming out to meet you when he sees you to be glad in his heart now you shall speak to him and do what put the words in his mouth and I will be with your mouth and with his mouth and I will teach you what you shall do so he shall be your wife what's he going to be commenting you don't have your Bibles I mean you do have your Bibles the Bible tolerated all along in your Bibles going to just go and say well Howard said I will be with your mouth and his mental uses the inverse sixteenth he shall be your spokesman to the people he himself sent me as a mouse for you and you shall be to him as is God and you shall take this ride in your hand etc. etc. incidentally it's interesting when Moses actually went before Pharaoh who did the talking you read at most it right then and Melissa little nervous about that I'll send you rather than and that he really count since most of those injured worker Perry went with him but at any rate notice what he says you're going to Arizona to be your spokesperson are legitimate rep Exodus Sabbath and find out something fascinating hearing Exodus Center 's one Exodus seven verse one notice what it says the Lord said to Moses see I have made you ask God to Pharaoh and Aron you brother shall be your profit when recall hearing his brother in chapter four a spokesperson biblical definition for a profit a prophet is a spokesperson for God a prophet may not foretell the future it was the greatest of the prophets according to Jesus John the Baptist how many future prophecy stating it is united amazing there's a couple applications I need a list of preferred before me has come after me etc. but the reality is that John the Baptist and perform miracle infidelity of Germany was the greatest of the prophets so when we look at the Bible definition of a problem solving is a spokesman for God a spokesperson for God I be following that let's look at it again in the book of Jeremiah God called Jeremiah the prophetic office we see the same situation repeated in fact even the same attitude that Moses had Jeremiah chapter one verse four Jeremiah chapter one verse four then the word of the Lord came to me saying behold on-site before I formed you in the womb I knew you before you were born I sanctified you I ordain you a lot promise to the nation then said I Lord God behold I cannot live I am a you a dismal malls instead I can't speak what am I going to do but the Lord said to me and spend one evening Doctor things like that the Bible when everybody in the Bible and I call in sick yeah I know I know just what to say when you like I can never do it but when we look at Moses and Jeremiah was Moses felt that way in Jeremiah felt that way maybe God could use me but the Lord said to the name or seventeen I say I am a use for years although not all to whom I send you and whatever I command you you shall speak do not be afraid of their faces for I am with you to deliver you says the Lord and the Lord put forth his hand and touched my mouth and the Lord said to me behold I have put what my words in your mouth a prophet is a spokesperson for God first and foremost he found that very if you look at your hand out there on page two under what is a prophet V Rapp is a spokesperson the Hebrew word for prophet is a word ninety which means spokesperson or speaker and a great word in the New Testament for a case which means one who speaks for itself and even in the original languages the word means spokesperson for the next point America and I'm going to pass over this understanding it briefly has communicated with his people in a number of ways throughout the Scripture but it seems that God 's preferred method of communication command has been through the prophetic ministry is used different methods before he spoken face-to-face face with individual but for the bulk of humanity let me ask you this how do you know what you know about God primarily through the Scripture right how do we get the Scripture profits right God communicated the message abroad in fact let's look at that in the book of Revelation chapter one how does this communication process work Revelation chapter one Revelation one one John gives us a picture as to how this whole process works Revelation one verse one the Bible says the revelation of Jesus Christ to which I gave to him as he is as to show his servants plural which must shortly take place God is God the father parties crisis on minorities are we are his servants we are a service not follow this so and so the message come from God to his son and his people how is in another part of the verse and he sent and signified it by his Angel to his servant John I think the book of Revelation out of his servants you and me how do we get the book of Revelation God gave it to his son Jesus Jesus gave it to an angel and sent to his profit the profit and communicates it to the people you follow that that's how God chose to go it have you ever wished that God would communicate to you any more clear or visible way I never struggled with the situations and largest write something in the clouds to let the clock in the class is warming yes or no I'll go this way or something like that and he had ever wish the guy would get you some more compelling Simon having wrestled through visit me learn what you want me to do a menu felt that way they I've felt that way but God has chosen a way to communicate it's not up to your Demeter dictate how to communicate his message is to something that I think we need understanding I looked at Paul you know during this conversion is riding on the road to Damascus and East stress I have a blinding light and not the horses riding on and sometimes in the Lord I wish you and you can be in omega he but here's the bottom line I for you believe that God needed to do that he would oftentimes we leave with their larvae to make minor and I think a lot of them tell us it's as plain as it needs to be it's not unclear to you because of the lack of plainness is unclear to you because you want to do it right but God has chosen methods of communication primarily throughout the Scripture his chosen method of communication above all others is communicating to the profit profit is the message to people you can find that consistently through the Scripture that's what the Scripture is the compilation of the writings of profit given to God 's people the guide can be ideally basic instructions before leaving her dry came to us through the ministry of profits are you miss me so far yes okay were on page three Anaheim to brush over couple points here briefly D top of the page page three the gift of prophecy is the only spiritual gifts appearing in all more spiritual gift lists have the lists listed there two of them are in the book of first rankings chapter twelve it is the only list that ranks in the only list rather that ranks the gifts the gift of prophecy is listed second only to apostles as prescribed in chapter twelve something must be understood that the difference let's let that person in your first first of the reasons for running this next statement this is one of the spiritual gifts list Ephesians chapter four this is an important one for you and me to know where to build on this Ephesians four after person second Corinthians Galatians Ephesians in the New Testament are going to look at verse eleven Bible talks about spirit of the is here that are given to God 's people verse eleven says and he himself gave some to be apostles some profits some evangelists and some pastors and teachers verse twelve for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry I want to emphasize that the King James Bible says this for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry is not what the Greeks that the new King James says it this way the spiritual gifts are given for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry all God 's people are called to ministry it may not be pastoral ministry but whatever occupation one of God 's people finds himself or herself in they are for their testimony to what Jesus Christ has done for them and then and this is what the spiritual gifts are given for the notice for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry for the edifying of the building up of the body of Christ that is the church verse thirteen till we all come to the what you see that they were to come back to this passage the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the son of God to a perfect man to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ that we should no longer be children tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine by the trickery of men in the coming craftiness of deceitful plotting and of course the passage goes on talking about us growing up in the fullness of Christ likeness there are five gifts listed there apostles prophets evangelists pastors and teachers something needs to be understood about the gift of prophecy and how it differed from the other gifts I'm a pastor and I'm an evangelist those are two gifts God has given me what makes me different from the profit let me rephrase that where do I get my authority as a pastor and evangelist when I get it from the word of God right from the spirit of prophecy right from something inspired which will talk about any minute is a lot of things people call inspired that are not inspired a book may be inspirational to you but being inspired of God is totally different I read next the potatoes new book and it seems inspired to me it's not inspiration is something that happens the profits and when a person is inspired they are profit to talk about that as we go on there's a distinction between the other gifts in a profit where does the prophet received his or her authority obviously from the Scripture as well and from God and for no profit is is above the Scripture but God communicated the message for example the book of Revelation was communicated directly to John it wasn't correct I communicate directly at me I have to go to John to get what revelations that when decisions that write so there's a distinction as a pastor as an evangelist I have to look to some inspired source for authority the prophet is an inspired source you see the difference now we believe that we talked about the fact that the properties a spokesperson for Don I want you to see who specifically of the Godhead is communicating to properly go to first Peter chapter one and understand were just laying some groundwork here to begin with some important groundwork I hope it doesn't seem redundant first Peter chapter one I want you to notice verse ten with me question rafting is this document is through the prophet which one of the Godhead according to the Scripture is the one who is communicating through the prophet but in verse ten Peter stocking up the plan of salvation was revealed to the prophecy revealed through the processes on their salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully who prophesied of the grace that would come to you in other words all the profits here's Peter New Testament prophet pointing back and saying all the prophets like Isaiah like Daniel etc. they were shown Mister Damon there were some messianic prophecies right do they fully understand the no and and and with a good understanding looking forward for the time of fulfillment and they were inquiring and they were searching what are what matter of time wins the Messiah going to come right and this is what Peter sang in the next version of the salvation of the reversing of the salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully prophesied of the grace of account you searching water what manner of time the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when he testified before hand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow notice verse eleven again the prophets in the context were searching water what manner of time the new spirit of Christ that was where and why him down in the new prophets the spirit of Christ within the province doing what when he was a man indicating when he testified before he went person testifies you can say they're getting there what testimony who was in the profits giving his testimony Christ so you could effectively call the spirit of prophecy the testimony of Jesus or the destiny Jesus could be called the gift of prophecy according to first Peter chapter one right you see that Peter says that when he says even in Old Testament times who spoke to the profits and he is in New Testament times to speak to the prophets so when a person wants to lay aside the writings of the prophets to be more Christ centered how does that make sense in Christ this speaks to the prophets are you following and that's not handling system it is and it isn't it's what the Bible teaches and his wife say it's important for us to understand what is the Bible say about profits the prophetic ministry is a insignificant employed above all others to communicate with his people the problem with God spokesperson specifically Christ's spokesperson of truth to communicate to his people Jesus was speaking to the prophets this is why Revelation nineteen ten if you go there with me I need to address this revelation nineteen ten Revelation nineteen ten and you're probably very familiar with this in fact sorry revelation twelve seventeen of the levers relations while seventeen gives the identifying marks of the manager if you seventh administer very familiar with this revelation twelve seventeen says the Dragon was enraged with a woman he went to make war with the rest of her offspring who keep the commandments of God and have a lot fascinated she said to wait identify God 's remnant church 's last pictures they keep God 's commandments and to have this testimony of Jesus what is the testimony of Jesus simple we go to Revelation nineteen ten and this is what the Bible says there was an Angel that was attending John during his vision Revelation nineteen ten John says and I fell at his feet to worship him but he sent to me see what you do I feel that I am your fellow servants and your brethren who have a lot testimony of Jesus worship God for the testimony of Jesus is the lot spirit of prophecy and website what's happening today his evidence is there there is its conclusiveness is second identifying characteristic of the rent which are designed to get the crossing the spirit of prophecy their critics today inside the evidence church and outside the evidence charts that are saying well we misapplied Revelation nineteen ten does not refer to the gift of prophecy the testimony of Jesus is not about the gift of prophecy the testimony of Jesus is about your testimony about Jesus on my testimony about Jesus so that the remnant church will keep God 's commandments and all have a testimony about what Jesus has done in their life yet that narrows it down doesn't know listen I want to look at your hand out looking this this quote and this is just a sampling of the kind of thing you'll find page three E under the hierarchy of current prophetic communication is called therefrom Dirk Anderson on his alibi exposed website and he says this some interpret the testimony of Jesus is the believer 's personal testimony about Jesus rather than Jesus testimony about himself to the prophetic gift one former Adventist claims that an on-site ethanol by thirteen percent of the quote actually starts where it says where the quotation marks their one program 's claims that quote throughout the New Testament we find a pattern of the testimony of Jesus referring to the believer 's personal witness about Jesus Christ rather than being the prophetic utterances received from Jesus the testimony of Jesus is the believer 's personal testimony about Jesus he's not the only one who says that as I mentioned to me they are wrapped I was wondering about going back and forth anybody is has anybody seen this magazine called proclamation faith and by Dale Retzlaff and other anti- administered trying to convince Agnes of the error of their ways in one of those articles which I have one of those magazines that I have not aligning I don't subscribe to it they just send it to you and I wouldn't bother with it too much it just gets you angry when you read it and because it's so distorted in he's got a four page article on this whole thing of this testimony of Jesus four pages and he goes through Scriptures and there are scriptures that talk about our testimony about Jesus and believe his testimony about Jesus and so he tries to build this phase the shoulder the Adventists have misapplied Revelation twelve seventeen and nineteen ten adjustment of Jesus has nothing to do with the gift of prophecy all are saying is it's talking about the believer 's personal witness about Jesus knowing four pages of this man used to be a Seventh-day Adventist informed money let me answer that is a member name of Peter Bart Jason former value still in the Adventist church he's recently sent out materials I discussed some of Ms. 's materials disgruntled Adventist evangelist and he makes the same case and in and in both of their expositions of this issue of the testament of Jesus they employ one text and they have to avoid that sex because they went to that one text that were about to go to your removes all shadow of them anything Revelation twenty two versus eight and nine were trying to figure out what the testimony of Jesus is that it talks about we already looked at the fact that Peter says that the spirit of Christ was in the Prophets testify so we see some cut congruence there is much in a notice on your back and forth hold your finger Revelation twenty two eight nine were to compare Revelation nineteen ten twenty two eight nine thank God for this parallelism here because it clarifies the issue Revelation nineteen ten once again notice that noticed that the whole scenery to meet up here and I fell at his feet to worship him but he said to me why you don't do it I am your lot fellow servant and under what brethren who have the testimony of Jesus now go to Revelation twenty two a.m. nine and look at how this passage is written here right in front of her sake I John saw and heard these things and when I saw and heard I felt down to worship before the feet of the angel who showed me these things then he said to me why Xavier don't do it for I am your lot fellow servant and of your brethren is a language the same only in Revelation nineteen ten he says I am your fellow servant and of your brethren who have the testimony of Jesus here you says I am your fellow servant and of your brethren the prophets there's no question but that when he said the testimony of Jesus the angel was speaking about the gift of prophecy is no question that when John wrote about what he wrote the fifteenth teaching us in speaking about the gift of prophecy not a personal believer 's testimony about what Jesus did in life not that that's not important the identifying characteristic of the remnant church is that they have the gift of prophecy are you with me on that soapbox for the testimony of Jesus is basically telling us that Jesus himself is the one who speaks to the prophetic messenger to communicate the light of truth are you following okay time to try to wrap up this essence it is segue into our next session with him briefly I run through some things in your hand that you have hit us he can look at them in more detail later on page three notice this type the province number one you have literary canonical prophets then he is a prophet row with their literary and canonical means they were included in the Bible those are the profits that we know probably the best Moses David Isaiah Jeremiah Ezekiel Daniel Hosea Joel etc. these are all profitable things in their writings are in the Bible but there a lot of Christians who don't realize that there were profits in Bible times wrote things that were included in the Bible in some examples you have these musical literary noncanonical noncanonical literature littering a route with a noncanonical wasn't the writings were not included in the Bible for whatever reason Eagle Nathan Anna Eisele you can look at the script references for those later all wrote things that are not in the Bible Shimane was a prophet who wrote things that they were not included in the canon of Scripture and Elijah I would love to read the book of Eli may not be powerful but John didn't see fit to included in the Canon of Scripture when he wrote letters and things that weren't included at the point here being that he hears Ellen White with which was born after the Canon of Scripture was written was concerned with begin this review was completed and so there comes a modern prophet she wrote things are not in the Bible it's nice to know that we have a biblical precedent for that that's not to rule out that it wouldn't be possible if there weren't a biblical precedent but it's nice to know that in the Bible there was the very same thing there were prophets who wrote things but they were included in the Canon from a wife Anna probably somebody's daddy who shows up and write things that are included in the Bible they had a vital time to write so there are literary canonical prophets are literary noncanonical profits and an error nonliterary noncanonical profits which means as far as we know they didn't write anything the communication was all verbal as far as we know it obviously neither be nothing to include in the Scriptures neither all different types of profits we find in the Bible some examples of those of you not the Bible says he was a prophet there is a book of Enoch but it wasn't written by Enoch that's another subject dad Eli 's and activists of MMA record of any of those prophets writing anything course there are others that could be included further some prophets were women wasn't relegated to man alone Miriam was a prophetess Debra was a prophetess Isaiah is why was a prophetess is that while how do you like to be in our household as it really I have a message for you from the Lord feel money I have a message for you from the Lord because of interesting conversations over dinner Phillips four daughters etc. some women also receive the gift of prophecy and then just another point some were contemporaries which means they are profits at the same time Moses Miriam both were profits at the same time Isaiah and Micah prophesied at the same time Ezekiel and Daniel prophesied at the same time Haggai and Zechariah prophesied contemporaneously and that Ananias Paul Silas Judas Phillips four daughters and John all were profits at the same time in the early church and so sometimes profits ranging him previously just these this is a little information the prophetic gift now at the bottom of the phases were no leave off I want to introduce this and we really bought into our next session the roles and functions of the prophetic gift according to several scriptures these are the different things the Bible tells us that prophets did all profits were to lay the foundation of the church through the written word and we'll revisit that after the break but it was IRA mentioned that the word has come to us through the ministry of profits right autism now the top page four B to equip the saints for the work of ministry we just read that not only profits for their other spiritual gifts that have the same function with treatment Ephesians four wasn't his prophets that were to quit the church pastors evangelists teachers and apostles of letter C to preserve unity of believe and prevent doctrinal confusion especially in times of controversy that is what were going to focus on the combatant break because that's me as one of the most essential needs of the prophetic gift today but all these are important D to aid and encourage in the development of Christian character letter F to enlighten and gives spiritual discernment G to provide proper boundaries and guidelines for the church letter age to warn of future difficulties I to encourage income for the church and Jay to prosper and preserve God 's people all of these were roles of the prophetic gift when I have time to cover all those roles but we come back in our next session what were going to dress now specifically is this whole idea now verbalize it this way people ask the question should Ellen White's writings have anything to do with our doctrinal beliefs with the formation of our doctrines and teachings is that there's a a a belief out there today that's that's that's gaining momentum that says Ellen White's writings should be used primarily devotional he and passed orally not doctrinally delivers we should use Alan Weiss Ridings to solve our biblical discussions and in understandings of Doctor we should just read her writings as a kind of an inspirational thing is a devotional thing work in a study what the Bible says about that we come back first of all looking at the early Christian church and how the writings of the prophets were employed and then we're going to look at how Adventist doctrine performed in relation to get the proxy data finisher with us on experiences in Adventism of that very thing on not only how the doctors performed but what happened when we were trying to formulate doctrines and we didn't allow a gift of prophecy have any impact sound fair I know somebody came and settled down this government around different seminars and now you're stuck is again into that state the right if you come back that's okay audio verses regarding epilepsy at the right of his life and seminars but remember this is the one it's good to make your faith in the last days and I would appreciate your time with us let's close with a word of prayer your value has with me father in heaven of father I wanted just pray for each one of us as your people today Lord we are so desirous of filling the position you have for us today Lord whether we be involved in ministry full-time where there were just a ministry in whatever area you places whatever occupation or be faithful to you and father wanted me to stand against the enemy 's deceptions and we want to emulate the character of Jesus before the people around us so that they may see our message not only here in Barbie greatly a blessing now upon the rest of our day together and bring a this was his audio versus what was generation of Christ are you like to learn more about Jim Lacey please visit www. 's life where or if you like this more free online service please visit www. audio verse more


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