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Every Wind of Doctrine - Part 1: The Everlasting Son

Norman McNulty

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Norman McNulty

Neurologist at Southern Tennessee Regional Health System, Lawrenceburg, TN

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Conference

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  • June 16, 2019
    11:00 AM
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Want to start with a statement from testimonies volume 5 page 7007. And this is a familiar statement to us but it's certainly pertinent to the time in which we are living in now so tomorrow as well in 5 page 7 I was God will arouse his people if other means fail heresies will come in among them which will sift them separating the chaff from the wheat the Lord calls upon all who believe his word to awake out of sleep precious life has come appropriate for this time it is Bible truth showing the perils that are right upon us this life should lead us to a diligent study the scriptures and the most critical examination of the positions which we hold so I have no difficulty taking this opportunity to use the Bible to give a critical examination to the business position we hold on the issue of the Godhead but what we see here is that before the Lord comes back God is going to allow heresy to come into the church because we as a people have been sleeping now some of you may say you know what's the big deal about heresy if someone has a different view on who God is than what I do what's the big deal Well 1st of all you may have noticed that those few agitate whether it's the Trinity God had as you or any other issue that we're going to talk about this week it sounds to become an all consuming idea that the whole church needs to accept and if you don't accept this idea you're going to be a lost you won't receive the latter rain you won't receive the seal of God and all of those kinds of things and so they turn it into a testing thing even. But heresy is not just a minor thing I want you to go to goal a sions chapter 5 if you have your Bibles with you churn in your Bibles the Galatians chapter 5 now we know Galatians chapter 5 as the chapter in which the fruits of the Spirit are defined which we like to talk about love joy peace longsuffering gentleness goodness faith meekness temperance against such there is no law but before that we have the works of the flesh starting and verse 19 now the works of the flesh are manifest which are these adultery fornication unclean this lasciviousness idolatry which corrupt hatred variance emulation wrath strife seditions and notice the last item in verse 20 what's mentioned there heresies and then Paul goes on to say he listen number of other things and he says what I tell you before as I have also told you in time past that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God So those who are advocating heresy are controlled by the flush not by the Spirit. Those who advocate for false doctrine and false teaching in the 7th day had an assertion that she that which goes against the Word of God are actually being motivated by the flush even though they don't realize it now you may have seen sometimes debates or dialogues on social media such as Facebook where people will debate these things and I certainly am not saying that those who hold to the position that the church teaches always use a Christ like mother but I can tell you the few times I have entered into dialogue with those who promote anti Trinitarian teaching I mean I've been labelled a jazz you and under can control of Catholics and all sorts of things just for posting a Bible verse without even making any commentary on it so it's not always been a good spirit that I've been exposed to from this movement so heresies are defined as a work of the flesh and those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God Now when it comes to truth versus error those who promote error make plain statements see complicated and this is the pattern that I have always noticed with those who promote heresy or fanaticism and that is this they'll have 50 Ellen White statements and 50 or 100 Bible verses and they go through all of them and by the time you come to the end you're just as confused as you were at the beginning of the presentation and then it's urged upon you that you must accept this teaching or you're not going to be saved and. The Bible truth is very clear and plain It's not hard to figure out so if you're walking out confused probably a reason now I'm just going to hit briefly if some of the fundamental beliefs that address the God of the Trinity and this is fundamental belief number 2 which says there is one God Father Son and Holy Spirit a unity of 3 Co eternal Persons God is a mortal all powerful all knowing above all an ever present he is infinite and beyond human comprehension yet known through his self-revelation God who is love is for ever worthy of worship adoration and service by the whole creation and then there's a number of Bible verses that you can look up to validate that you see Matthew 2819 were Jesus was baptized a name the name of the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit Those are just some verses that are out there now when we come to fundamental belief number 4 with respect to the Father is God the Eternal Father is the creator source the Stayner and sovereign of all creation He is just and holy merciful and gracious slow to anger and abounding and steadfast love and faithfulness the qualities empowers exhibited in the Son and the Holy Spirit are also those of the father there's more bible verses that you can look up and thence. Fundamental belief number 4 I have 2 slides for this is God the Eternal Son became incarnate in Jesus Christ through Him all things were created the character of God is revealed the salvation of humanity is accomplished in the world as judged for ever truly God He became also truly human Jesus the Christ he was conceived of the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary he lived in experience temptation as a human being but perfectly exemplify the righteousness and love of God His miracles he manifested God's power and was a test of his God's promised Messiah he suffered and died voluntarily on the cross for our sins and in our place was raised from the dead in ascended to heaven to minister in the heavenly sanctuary in our behalf he will come again in glory for the final deliverance of his people and the restoration of all things so that's the 7th they are not fundamental beliefs this was voted by the General Conference in session in 1980 at the Dallas Texas General Conference 980 now anti Trinitarians are saying that these statements are wrong that they are equal and some are even saying that they constitute the omega of apostasy So that is a bit of a problem and what I'm going to do now though is rather than saying in my words what anti Trinitarians are saying I'm going to read to you what anti Trinitarians actually say. Because one thing I don't want to do is to build up a straw man on Tara down and teach something that even they would say isn't something they believe so this is what they this is and one of the thing I should also say is that there are some variations within this anti Trinitarian camp but there are some commonalities that here's some of the things that they say so this isn't anti Trinitarian I'm just quoting him now he says and again this is not what I believe this is what they say they say Jesus is referred to as God and he was one and John 11 also all things were created by Him John 13 this absolutely yes the stablish is the vanity and his preexistence but the terms God and Son of God establishes the relationship between 2 beings so you'll notice that those they see he is divine the stablish is the vanity but they don't want to see you say yes he is God he's referred to as God but they don't want to come right out and say that and they go on to say the best way to understand the usage of the term God is by the name Adam when taken in the strictest sense Adam is the name of a single individual the CERM Adam man can also refer to mankind a race of beings or to both Adam and Eve scripture that as says in the image of God So does the father speaking of the Son and they go on to quote some Bible verses Genesis 127 God created man in his own image in the image of God created he him male and female created He them many read into Genesis 126 and 27 a trinity but there is only one thing on all the scripture that is in the image of God They say that Christ and 2nd Corinthians 44 so they say is the father speaking to the son and they say that l n y again this is what they say not what I believe they said Ellen White backs this interpretation in early writings 145 where she says when God said do some of us make man in Our image Satan was jealous of Jesus what is significant they say is that they were not 3 beings that were created but only 2 beings we believe that this is because. God was illustrating in the creation of man the relationship between the Father and the son Adam was 1st and then the eve was brought forth from his substance or rib in the same way The Father is God and he was 1st so there and acknowledging that there is a time that Jesus was not and they go on to say the son is not God in the strictest sense of personality but is God in substance and nature even though his personality had a beginning any charity Jesus is God in nature so he's divine but God is a reference primarily to the father's So that's in their words what they're saying about Jesus that he is. A divine being he is God in substance in nature but not in personality there is a statement where Ellen why it does say that something similar to that but again there's plenty of other statements that we're going to look at stablish that Christ is God And here's what ends up happening and I'm going to show you a video next of if the sound works if you say that the Father and of course they quote John 173 that the father is the one true God and Jesus is the Son of God What you are doing here is that you are placing Jesus as lower than the father. Because he is not an personality God he's the son of a God and God is the Father Jesus is the son and so Jesus is lost in the Father and I'm going to play. A video here we'll see if the sound works of 2 prominent teachers to promote the idea that the Father is God and Jesus is the Son of God and you see how far the teaching takes you when you start to say that Jesus is lost in the Father so the it's really all you need to see the but that's really a shocking. Assertion that these teachers are making that worshipping Jesus as God is idolatry. You know slippy and cease of the day a day is going to come that every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father so there's a lot of problems with where they're going and you know just to even mention what they are talking about in the video I mean Scripture says that Jesus is seated at the right hand of the throne of God It's not just the father on the throne Jesus seated at the right hand of the throne of God So there's a lot of things that they misconstrue from Scripture but here's some just to summarize some of the things that they teach they teach that the father is the one true God They call themselves the one true god movement based on John 173 where Jesus us of the father that they might know the only true God and Jesus Christ who now has sent so they teach that we have one more Jesus Christ who is the Son of God He is a divine being who is the Son of God but not God They say that Jesus was be gotten or brought forth from the booze them of the Father in the distant past and they say that the Holy Spirit is not a distinct being now there is a little bit of a variation among that camp some believe that the Holy Spirit is their holy spirit which is the spirit of the Father and the son combine others teach that the Holy Spirit is the spirit of Jesus Christ but they all agree that the Holy Spirit is not a distinct being. They say that the current 7 they had missed teaching is the omega of apostasy and that you cannot experience righteousness by faith or receive the latter rain and unless you see the streets or at least some of them are teaching this including the people you that you saw in the video they say that worshipping Jesus with the Holy Spirit is God as a violation of the 1st Commandment you heard it on the video or says Thou shalt have no other gods before me and they say that 7th they have no sort of worshipping a false God So when you say what's the big deal well this is why it's a problem because then those who believe these teachings want to come to your church and tell you that you've been worshipping a false god and that you're going to be lost unless you accept what they're teaching and you may say but didn't the pioneers believe this and the answer is not really they did not say or go to the extremes that the current group of anti Trinitarians are going now we are going to see what some of the pioneers said but it's not to the extent of the current group. They did not say it was the omega of apostasy and that you would be a lot of things of that nature so just to define some terms here so Aerion ism based on a. Teacher from the early 1st centuries name areas. They he taught that there was a time in the past that Jesus was not that he did not exist then some irony as them came along and taught that Jesus proceeded from the substance or body of the Father and was being gotten and as a literal Son So they say in a sense he always existed because he was part of the substance of the father's return and even then he eventually came forth from the father and so he's a literal son and they say they take the Bible literally as it reads and again they're using a human construct because I'm not trying to be disrespectful but if Jesus is the literal Son of the literal father then who's the mother I mean because now we're putting human constructs. On God So some irony is the most teaches that the substance of Jesus always existed in the substance of the father and I'm going to quote to you from a 2nd generation pioneer e.j. Wagner of 888 fame of course and this is what he teaches in his book Christ and His righteousness. The and I'm quoting him this is what he says the Scriptures declare that Christ is the Only Begotten Son of God He is be gotten not created so if you hear someone say oh we don't believe that Jesus is a created being that semantics because they still think there's a good chance they believe that he would be gotten so if someone tries to assure you I don't think Jesus was created that doesn't necessarily mean they're not anti Trinitarian they're just using charms to try to make it sound more acceptable so he goes on to say as to when he was be gotten it is not for us to enquire nor could our minds grasp it if we were told and I starts quoting Micah 5 to the prophet Micah told us all that we can know about it in these words but the Bethlehem efforts Mung. Though they'll be a little among the thousands of Judah yet out of the show he come forth and to me that is to be ruler in Israel whose going for worse have been from of old from the days of each year and a day now the phrase going forth is key for anti Trinitarians we're going to see why and then he goes on to say there was a time when Christ proceeded forth and came from God from the booze I'm of the Father but the time was so far back in the days of eternity that's a finite comprehension it is practically without beginning but the point is that Christ is a be gotten son and not a created subject he has by inheritance a more excellent name the name Jules he is a son over his own house and since he is the Only Begotten Son of God He is a very substance and nature of God and possesses by birth all the attributes of God for the father was pleased that the son should be the express image of his person and brightness of His glory and filled with all the fullness of the Godhead So he has a wife and himself he possesses immortality in his own right and confusion for immortality upon others and us from pages 21 and 20 of Wagner's book Christ and His righteousness Now there you can clearly see that Wagner was taking what we would call a semi area and position he taught that Christ proceeded from the substance of the Father. And that's what anti Trinitarians that they believe about Christ's divine nature this is what they're saying from Micah 5 she were talks about the goings forth have been from old from the days of eternity this is the Crete key phrase that they use is from the Hebrew word mote saw the only other place that this faith phrase is found in Scripture is in 2nd Kings Chapter 10 verse 27 and in 2nd Kings 1027 the phrases used to describe a Drafthouse or a bath or toilet house set off from a larger house of a safe seat that shows in Micah 52 that Christ was set apart or be gotten from the father just about houses that apart from a regular house honestly I'd need a lot more to be convinced of such an argument with us the argument they're using. And we're going to see why the breaks down we show what that really means as we go through this then they go on to proverbs a for the beginning of Christ and in Proverbs 8 versus 203330 Solomon is talking about wisdom personified but we do you understand from 1st Corinthians $130.00 that Jesus Christ is made unto us wisdom righteousness sanctification and redemption and Ellen White clearly shows and signs of the times just 2900 that proverbs a is referring to Christ so for those who try to say oh it's not Christ it's wisdom that's not a good argument because Illinois is referring to Proverbs 8 as Christ but there are some clear explanations as to how to understand this passage the blackly. But here's what they'll say I was a 23 Speaking of crisis as I was set up from everlasting So they say see he had a beginning from everlasting programs a 24th as I was brought forth Proverbs 825 this is before the mountains were settled before the hills was I brought forth and then provers 830 then I was by him as one brought up with him so they say See he was brought up with a father like a son Well let's look at what these passages actually mean because Micah 5 to him Proverbs 820 to 30 are some of the key Bible verses that they use to try to show that Christ had a beginning any charity Well among the 5 or so to this phrase goings forth is the phrase most saw in the feminine form of Hebrew but Mozart is the masculine form of the same word and this is used 27 times in the Old Testament 2 times it is used to describe a king going about his business so I can say mule 325 were representative of King David is doing his business and in Jose a Chapter 6 verse 3 we see the word go and 4th as the morning in preparation to pour out the Early in the latter rain so it would make a lot more sense to Micah 5 or see that one it says is going forth had been from old from everlasting that it would make sense that this would be describing a king going about his business rather than saying that Christ proceeded from the substance of the father there's no reason to believe that based on the passage of scripture now l. on why he uses Micah 5 to chew define the everlasting divine nature of Christ this is signs of the Times August 29th 1800 by the way I feel like I only need 2 or 3 Ellen White statements to settle this issue I don't need 100. Just need one or 2 statements and it settles the case is not complicated at all it really is not notice this statement this is and I was quoting she's using this as a lead in to her explanation of Micah 52 before Abraham was I am Christ is the preexistent of the anti Trinitarians are Ok with him being preexistent he is the preexistent self existent Son of God Now honestly that statement settles it right there I don't need your 100 other statements at that point he self existence because God is self-existent if he self-existent that means he didn't come out of the substance of the Father and if you're if you try to get around the statement there's really no it way around it because if he really did come from the substance of the father she would have said he is the preexistent so also existence one who came out of the substance of the father but she doesn't say that she simply says he is the preexistent souls exist in some of the Son of God and she goes on to then quote Micah 52 to make her point that his goings forth have been from old from everlasting meaning that from everlasting means for ever now I've dialogue with those who believe in anti Trinitarian teachings and they say if he didn't have a beginning it should have said through everlasting and said a from everlasting and my response to that is if you say from everlasting to everlasting then that would mean he has a beginning point and an ending point so he has a starting point from everlasting and he has an ending point at the end of everlasting and there is no such thing that doesn't even make sense from everlasting means that there is no beginning point from that point that way to everlasting means there is no ending point that way but if you say from everlasting is a beginning point then by definition you would have an ending point to everlasting. That doesn't even make sense and just using basic anguish so he's preexistent and he self-existent honestly that statement right there should settle the issue of the divine nature of Christ but keep going I'm happy to show some more things Proverbs 8 Jesus is wisdom personified but does this passage teach that he had a beginning and was brought forth now notice Ellen White signs of the time she also addresses proverbs a in addition to Micah 5 to use the just read signs of the Times August 29th 1900 and she starts to quote about this passage and we don't necessarily need to read all of it but she says through Solomon Christ the clearer the Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way before his works of old I was set up from everlasting and you can keep going on down you can read improvisations simply quoting Proverbs 8 and then in the very next paragraph notice this and speaking of his preexistent Christ carries the mind back through dateless ages he assures us that there never was a time when he was not in close fellowship with the eternal God he to whose voice the Jews were then listening had been with God as one brought up with a mellow some that had Trinitarians are familiar with the statement and they say yeah there were never was a time for 2 reasons one that from the moment Christ came forth he's always been with the father and then he was even in the substance of the Father before that so there's never been a time that they haven't been in close fellowship but that's not what she's saying here if Ellen White wanted us to understand that from the time he was brought forth there never was a time she would have said that was what never means is never Ok never means never not from one the time he came forth. That means that the Father and the son have always been because I just showed us they meant where it says that Jesus is not only preexistent he is self-existent and if he self exists that means that he always has been he wasn't relying on the substance of the father to be brought forth and because he always has been he there never has been a time that he's not been in close fellowship with the eternal God So again that's very clear now what does the Bible say I've shown you a few bible verses will come back if you Illinois that means but what does the Bible say about Christ notice 1st Timothy $316.00 a very familiar passage and without controversy great is the mystery of godliness who was manifest in the flush God God was man a flush manifest and the flush justified in the spirit seen of angels preached of the Gentiles believed on in the world received up into glory and then John one verses one and 2 in the beginning was the word in the Word was with God and the Word was God So God was with God because the Son of God is God and he was with the father who also has the same was in the beginning with God and then we see in John 114 the Word was made flesh that's God made flesh and dwelt among us and we beheld his glory the glory as of the only begotten of the Father full of grace and truth John $1030.00 I and my Father are one Jesus is not less than the father they are won John 14 verse 9 he that has seen Me has seen the Father Jesus could not be the perfect representation of his father if he was not equal with him think about that. If Jesus is not God He could not be the perfect representation of him and then notice what the father says of Jesus and here is one verse 8 The father says the Jesus by throne Oh God is for ever and ever you saw on the video that they said that only the father sat on the throne to hear the father says your throne of God is forever and ever so Jesus of us around 2 he's not lost in the father he's equal to him he's seated at the right hand of the throne of God and the promise of those of us on the way to see in church those who ever come of Christ overcame will sit with him on his throne even as he also overcame in and sat down with his father in his throne then he were 73 you know he were 7 speaks of this milk says of the priests and it's a comparison or analogy to the priestly ministry of Christ and notice what it says of molecules that it says having neither beginning of days nor end of life that made life into the Son of God abideth a priest continually Now Christ had a beginning and an ending in His humanity he was born on this earth he died on the cross and was resurrected but in His divinity there is no beginning or ending and in Hebrew 7 speaking of milk has a dick We don't have any record in Scripture of where he came from or where he went and the reason why that is in Scripture the Apostle Paul is telling us and Hebrews is because he's like the Son of God There's no beginning of days nor end of life because he's like the Son of God No beginning no when. Only Divinia only divinity has no beginning or ending and that's the divine nature of Christ now John 858 says Verily verily I say unto you before Abraham was I am I am the notes and eternal existence and then he roost 138 speaking of Jesus as Jesus Christ the same yesterday and today and for ever going to see these verses show up again in a few minutes also in 1st John Chapter 5 are strong any we see and we know that the Son of God is calm and has given us an understanding that we may know him that is true and we are in Him That is true even in His Son Jesus Christ this is the true God in eternal life now that's an important verse because the one true god movement says that the father is the one true God based on John 173 base here we see that 1st John $520.00 says that the Son Jesus Christ is the true God So yes the father is the true God and so is Jesus and then they say oh well Jesus is Lord but he's not God but notice what Jeremiah tense of about the Lord but the Lord is the true God this is your my accent but the Lord is the true God He is the Living God in an everlasting King his wrath the earth still tremble and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation So you put yourself in the box and say oh the father is the one true God and Jesus Christ as Lord but then the Bible says that the Lord is the true God So there's lots of ways to show from the Bible that Jesus is Lord and is a god so Jesus Christ is Lord and the true God as well so the Bible makes it very clear this isn't a difficult concept. I was in 96 showing us some titles of Jesus for us a child is born under the sun is given and the government shall be upon his shoulder and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor the mighty God the Everlasting Father the Prince of Peace So here we see that the Jesus who was born on this earth is the mighty God and he's also called the everlasting Father John 316 he is called the Only Begotten Son now some debate this and the meaning of this but be gotten in the Greek is the word monologue and nest mano means unique only or one Guinness as a category or a con like genus or species so Jesus is a one of a kind now they'll say oh but it says the Isaac was the only begotten son of Abraham and he had other sons after that well you know Isaac was the only Son that Abraham had were both the Father and the mother were both past child bearing age. Ishmael was born of Hagar who could who could bear children and the sons Abraham had after that were from women who could bear children but Isaac was a one of a kind and Jesus is a one of a kind and just keep that in mind now what does the why is it about Jesus we've got a few things just a bullish the truth of this issue that he's the preexistent self-existent Son of God. That there never was a time when he was not in close fellowship with the father let's just look at a few other statements along what makes this is for manuscript releases volume 12 page 395 the yoke of all the occasion obligation was not laid upon him to undertake the work of redemption voluntarily he offered himself a willing spotless sacrifice he was equal with God infinite and omnipotent he was above all finite requirements he was himself the law in character of the highest angels that could not be so that they had never born a year so here you see that he was equal with God and you listen to anti Trinitarians you see the video that I played earlier there showing that they don't believe he really is equal next paragraph no one of the angels could become a substitute and surety for the human race for their life as a god they could not surrender it on Christ alone the human family depended for their existence he is the eat ciarán will self existence son on whom no yoke had come so here's a definition for Eternal means the self exists and he always has been he did not rely on the father to become existant if you say that Jesus came from the substance of the father he cannot be self-existent. So again very clear no and keep keep on going on the same as this one got us in July 7th he will go 1st Christ alone of the Angelakos could reply here in mice and me he alone have covenanted before the foundation of the world to become a surety for man he could say that which not the highest age but say I have power over my own wife I have Power To lay it down and I have power to take it again so Jesus saying because I am God I have Power To lay down my life and power to raise it up again only God can do that going on deserve a just for 16 and with solemn dignity Jesus answered Verily verily I say unto you before Abraham was I am silence fell upon the vast the symbole the name of God given to Moses to express the idea of the eternal presence have been claimed as his own by the Galilean rabbi he had announced himself to be the cells Existent One He who had been promised Israel whose going forth I've been from of old from the days of eternity and then she says in Feb 18895 from what or 119 I am means an eternal present so please don't tell me that Jesus had a beginning and the days of eternity pass his self existence he always has been and the Jewish leaders knew exactly what Jesus meant when he said before Abraham was I am there's no doubting the divine nature of Christ that He is a God that he self exists and that he always has been and again she uses and deserve a just for $69.00 Micah 5 shoot to explain what it means for his going forth event from old from the days of eternity that means that he's the self existant one from the days of eternity. Now another state of the 7 b.c. 955 these are wonderfully solemn and significant statements it was the source of all mercy and pardon peace and grace the self-existent eternal unchangeable one who visited his exiled serve on the aisle that is called Patmos So again I mean there's other statements so many statements but this is making it very clear that Christ always has men now this is this is to me the the clincher statement from Ellen White about Christ this is medical ministry page 90 God always has been not everybody agrees with that but notice how she applies this statement to you as we keep reading he is the great I am the the saw most the clear is the for the mountains were brought forth or ever thou hadst form the Earth in the world even from everlasting to everlasting that our God He is the high and lofty one that inhabit of the eternity I am the Lord I change not he declares with him there is no variableness neither shadow of turning now to notice this phrase right here she still talking about God she hasn't changed. He is the same yesterday and today and forever what bible verses that. That's He was 138 describing Jesus Christ the same yesterday today and forever he is infinite and omnipresent no words of ours can describe his greatness and majesty so God always has been he is the same yesterday today and forever Jesus is God He is the same yesterday today and forever he is the great I am so for all the 100 passages they may try to throw at you in the 100 Bible verses they'll throw your way none of those passages can overcome all of the statements that I've just shown that Christ is self-existent that he always has been that he is God and the Bible says that he is God the Father tells The Sun that your throne of God is for ever and ever now this is another same at that they don't walk and they try to have an explanation for but it's very clear desire of ages page $530.00 in Christ is Weis original borrowed the rhymes he that hath the son half life the divinity of Christ is the believers assurance of eternal life if you're trying to take away Jesus for me as someone that I should worship I'm not giving that up. Because that's my assurance of eternal life. And notice this in Christ is lies original borrowed underwrite there's a reason why Ellen White wrote the statement in 898 she was player refining some of the divergent views that existed in the 7th Day Adventist church up until that point it is true that there were anti Trinitarian semi Ariens and so forth in the church in an 898 which was 17 years after her husband passed away the Lord sauce for her to write in her her book deserve ages which is her clearest exposition on the divinity and the humanity of Christ and it is in addition to the supreme devotional value and inspiring and inspired value that you get from that book just on what it means to be Christ like but from a theological standpoint if you want to understand that the the divinity and humanity of Christ theologically the desire of Ages is her primary source to understand that an undesired a just describing the did event the divinity of Christ she says in Christ is life original borrowed and arrive now the anti Trinitarian say Yeah the reason why his life as original as because it came out of the substance of the Father so that's the original that was in the Father and so it's not borrowed because it came out of the Father and it's and I'm starting to not be able to explain it for them at this point because it says it's under rise if he came out of the substance of the Father by definition that's derives Eve was derives from the substance of Adam her He she came out of a rib from Adam so she was derived from the substance of Adam that does not make her less than that of she was his equal she came out of a side not so that he could rule over her or she would rule over him but she would be one by his side she was derived from Adam. Christ in Christ is life original On Borrowed under arrived please don't tell me that he came out of the substance of the father based on that statement alone that makes it crystal clear now also why I think I've said this some are areas of argue that this is the life of the Father that is in Christ that his original unburden not on the right but it is obvious that Ellen White did not mean that she would have clarified that she would have said in the days of eternity for the past he proceeded out of the substance of the Father the way e.j. Wagner said it but she didn't say it the way e.j. Wagner said it no she said in Christ is life original borrowed underwrote she makes no qualifiers in the statement she was not sending a subliminal message in which the true meaning would be discovered later the plain reading of the statement is obvious and she also says he is the preexistent self-existent Son of God Now some of you may or may not have heard of the story of Emily Andreas and he was a prominent admin us the author in the early 1900 all the way into the 1950 s. and he was converted in his early teen years and became a son of a honest minister and he had a high devotion for l n y And he was a semi Ariane he believes the way Wagner presented it and the way anti Trinitarian say now in the days of eternity past Christ proceeded from the substance of the father but he became converted after reading her writings and noticed this interesting story this is from an article written by Jerry minutes from the ad in the strength of the debate part one it's it can be found the reference will be on the next screen Ellen White's assertions of Christ eternal self-existent. Came as a shock to the theological leadership of the church in a Landry Assen who had become an ad mistress 4 years earlier at the age of 18 and he would eventually teach at the church's North American seminary said that the new concept was so different from the previous understanding that some prominent leaders doubted whether l m y had really written and they're referring will and you'll see in the next 3 and after Andrea's and entered the ministry in 1960 he made a special trip to Ellen White's California home to investigate the issue for himself she welcomed him and gave him access to her manuscripts and he brought with him a number of quotations quote he wanted to see if they were in the original in her own handwriting and notice what he says here I was sure sister y. had never written in Christ is life original on borrowed and arrived but now I found it in her own handwriting just as it had been published it was so with other statements as I checked I found they were sister writes own expressions now m.l. injurious and was a semi Arion he believed that Christ had a beginning and eternity path and he thought that her writings had been tampered with Have you ever heard of that assertion in recent times. Andrea some thought that surely it must have been the widest they change the words around and she never would have in crisis was original and borrowed on the right in that he is the preexistent self-existent Son of God and then he meets her in person and he sees in her own handwriting the very written statements and then she affirms Yes that's what I wrote in Christ is life original borrowed under rive you know it's amazing to me and and though I'll say this to his credit elder Andrea soon excepted this new lie and became a more accurate follower of the truth as it is and Jesus based on scripture he was well enough of the light that he had but one further like came to him he came to understand that his understanding of the divine nature of Christ was incorrect and he surrendered that understanding because the reality is that. None of us are smart enough to figure it all out on a wrong we need the divine guidance of the Holy Spirit and the Lord has sent a prophet to our church and she's made it very clear and they try to use her writings to say to make it sound like she's teaching something other than what she actually says those are crystal clear statements and there's no other statement that they can share that would override that they're trying to twist your writings I want you to think about something Lucifer in the anti Trinitarians Now I'm sure this is not the end of anti trinitarians but this is what they're actually doing Lucifer challenge Christ's authority in heaven. Anti trinitarians do not believe that Christ is a God and have diminished him to a lesser role than the father he's a son of God and a divine being but not God Satan was saying how come Christ is worshiped the way the father is and I can't be worshiped I should be in the same position as Christ and you know if you read story of redemption and great controversy in those books the father had to call a council a general assembly of all the angels where he explained all of the angels Hey Christ is God and you should worship him he's the chief of the angels but he assumed the form of the angels he was the archangel and so Lucifer said why is he better than me well because Christ is humble Philippians to makes that so clear and so Satan would love nothing more then to deceive so called 7th Day Adventists into believing that Christ really isn't God and that worshipping Him is idolatry from South blasphemy to say that worshipping Christ as God is blasphemy friends I want to tell you right now I worship Christ every day as God and I will this day until the day he comes in throughout the Cecils ages of eternity and nothing's going to change that and if you want to call that idolatry than May the Lord have mercy on you because that's blasphemous Jesus is a God and he has to be worshiped and I want to read Philippians to you which makes this so clear Philippians to you starting in verse 5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus who being in the form of God thought it not robbery to be equal of God Well it wasn't robbery for him to be equal with God because he was God. But it made him so also of no reputation and see here's the thing Christ was willing to make himself of no reputation other translations say he emptied themselves meaning he emptied himself of divinity when he came to this earth or he made himself of no reputation meaning that some would miss understand who he really is he did so at that risk so that he could save us so we could understand who God really is made himself of no reputation check upon him the form of a servant and was made in the likeness of men and being found in fashion as a man He humbled himself and became obedient to death even the death of the cross wherefore God also have highly exalted him and given him a name which is above every name that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow no friends the only thing you can worship is God that's not idolatry and a day is coming when every knee will bow of things in heaven and things on earth and things under the earth and every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord now Jeremiah 10 town says that the Lord is the true God So when it says Jesus Christ is Lord that means he is a God So the glory of God the Father friends a day is coming that all the world is going to bow down and this is at the end of the 1000 years of the end of the out of the 2nd resurrection and friends I want to be part of the 1st resurrection if Jesus should tarry I pray that I'm alive when he comes but I want to be part of that 1st resurrection experience because if I'm alive I'm going to see those bodies come out of the grave and I want to be among those that say of Jesus when He comes whoa this is our God we have waited for him and he will save us I'm not saying this is the Son of God Scripture says this is our God we have waited for him and he will save us. Jesus is my savior he's my lord and he's my God Thomas when he saw Jesus and Jesus put your hands on the my side he said my Lord and My God I can't believe that this is so hard to understand it should be it is alarming that there are some 7th Day Adventists if you do not believe that Jesus is God and that he is not existed through all eternity you know is one thing and I'm going to talk more about the Pioneers tomorrow in my presentation on the Holy Spirit and why there was this belief in some of these things and the reason is that a large or a decent substantial part of the Miller and I Miller Right Movement came from the Christian connection who believe this way Ellen White was not part of Christian connection but James when Joseph Bates were so some of them in the rice mess of some of them had that viewpoint Ellen White didn't but eventually she spoke the truth on that matter but here's the thing the pioneers who believed that way didn't make it a test in truth they didn't bring it to the forefront because they were united in proclaiming the soon coming of Jesus anti Trinitarians now are trying to make it say that this is the one thing the church should be talking about. Their views require trysting the plain reading of inspiration in order to accept their presuppositions to claim that we must accept their views in order to receive the latter rain on the seal of God is heresy and a deception and I remember what I read from Galatians 5 years as 1921 that the works of the flesh which are manifest are these in the stars off of the adultery fornication licentiousness and so forth but heresy is one of the manifestations of the work of the flesh and in that is also to describe the scribes wrath strife and so forth here is see well some of this when heresy comes knocking on the door of your church strife fall of us and that is an evidence of the worth of the flush. And there is a lack of respect for the leadership of the church and people will say well I'm going to teach this no matter who who says what to me because I only answer to God not to you but listen friends and I want to talk about this in our force in the 6 part series about the role of church authority God has delegated authority on this earth and if you don't respect the head elder and the pastor of your church who are the delegated authority for that local church body that crisis set up on this earth than you are not really willing to submit to Christ themselves and it is true that a sorority can be abused but that's why prices wipe the dust off your feet and move on to the next town if they won't receive you in one city but some of these people say no we're going to just rough it out and we're going to agitate agitate agitate until everyone agrees with us and that's why and I'll say this as I wrap up. It's one thing if there's a person in your church he's a member of your church who quietly believes this and they don't agitate this and they're not trying to make disciples into this belief they quietly believe this it's unfortunate if they do but they're sitting there quietly and not doing anything to agitate that's one thing you may not even know that they believe that they're just sitting there quietly they never say anything about it so I'm not here to suggest that you go on some kind of an inquisition to find out if people believe this the here's what you do need to be aware of in your church if even one person is agitating this issue Ok if you talk to them and they say Ok fine we'll stop agitating and they really stop agitating in the discussion but if you talk to them as the leadership of your the leadership of the church and you talk to them and they continue to agitate it that is grounds for church discipline and removal from membership. Because your church should not be split and divided over the work for the flush this is heresy we are getting ready for Jesus to come and the last thing we need is to allow Satan to come into our churches with a false teaching about who Christ and the Holy Spirit are we have more important things to be focusing on and this is a distraction and a deception that is going to keep people from being ready for Jesus to come so I'll leave you with that thought again here's a. Reference for a really good resource if you want something on the Trinity and then the last thing I'll mention if you want further study on The Book of Daniel I have a book coming out in the next few weeks from run the publication is a verse by verse commentary it goes through all of the Book of Daniel that even addresses the interesting chapter of Daniel 11 we go through the whole thing and it looks at the big picture and makes practical applications I think you'll enjoy the book this time I'm going to offer a closing prayer and we will wrap of the session but I want to thank you for coming out today and I encourage you to come back tomorrow where we address the Holy Spirit as the 3rd Person of the Godhead So let's close with her father we thank you for being with us today. Lord we thank you that Jesus who is the Son of God is also God and that we can worship Christ that we can worship the Father that there is a unity of 3 co-eternal persons the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit Lord forgive us for the times that we may have been confused on this issue I pray that you would protect our churches and our people from the suction and they will be found faithful when Jesus comes the greatest in Jesus in this media was brought to you by audio person a website dedicated to spreading God's word through free sermon audio and much more if you would like to know more about audio version or you would like to listen to more sermon please visit w w w dot audio Verse dot org.

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