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Can treatments used during the 1918 Spanish Flu outbreak be used to combat the pandemic we currently face? Learn from top medical professionals from across the country for an online symposium as they share lessons learned that could be applied today!

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  • April 12, 2020
    6:30 PM
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I'm Dr Lee Lewis and I am the host of agonise World Radio $360.00 health Today's topic is something that is exciting and very informational to all of us we're going to be looking at novel lessons learned from the 1800 flu and could those lessons possibly apply to the coded 1000 pandemic everywhere we turn as medical professionals and as individuals within the community cope at 19 has changed our world many have come up with different ideas and today we want to look at what could possibly come out of the 1981 n one influenza virus and could some of that information help us. As a 7th Day Adventist organization and as a Christian I think it is a beautiful opportunity to follow in the footsteps of Christ providing holistic health physical mental emotional and spiritual healing on the 7th they have a church has done this for many years we are so excited to look at some of these principles today for our medical professionals if you have not yet registered for your continuing medical education course please go to the next slide will show us a w.r. dot au r g forward slash health where you can register again that's a w r o r g forward slash health although this is for physicians by physicians all are welcome to attend this is just an overall view of the program for this evening just to give you an idea of where we'll be going again we look forward to a presentation that will hopefully help each and every one of us and give us encouragement at an otherwise difficult time I want to introduce to you someone who's very special to me as Dr Duane The key Dr Duane The key is the president of admin it's worth radio he's going to give us an opening welcoming prayer thank you. Thank you Dr Lee Let's pray together show a Father in heaven as we turn the clock back many many years back in 1900 I pray that as we look at the lessons learned there that we can apply them to what is happening all around us now others we look at the disaster that's happening around the world with the flu virus I just pray that you will give us wisdom as to how we can handle it better and how we can work together in this whole world so that many people can have a life can be touch and change and be healed we thank you for your love in Jesus name Amen. Ranter of health ministry for the 7th Day Adventist Church the whole Global Network Dr Lammas is also an ordained minister and he is going to be talking to us from a global perspective thank you Dr Lewis Good evening and the ceiling we look at hydrothermal seriously. Bible study and information channeled through Ellen White to co-founder of the 7 there's interest church ensures that healthful living and caring for the health the communities we serve are part of the belief system and in fact our d.n.a. as it were aging 65 for the founding of the Western help whom Institute which later became. Precentor to. This work has grown into the largest Protestant faith based health care system in the world. 18 in health care is the blended ministry care of the whole person body mind physical social relational an emotional. The system has grown into $211.00 hospitals and sanitariums $440.00 clinics and dispensaries and serves in 2018 they are patients $20000000.00 of them $1500000.00 in patients and charity dollars were donated to this community is research in excess of $1200000000.00 in 2020 we still defer to the named pillars of health care scripture inspired councils and evidence based peer reviewed health science the ravages and devastation of the global pandemic Ben Demick call for ongoing commitment to make every effort to heal whenever possible always to comfort and always to care. For during this time and we need to continue with the very best practice of carefully bouncing risk and benefit with integrity and explore opportunities that may bring relief and possible enhanced mint of human resilience through useful Provan and reproducible interventions this is what we try and do no worldwide liberal and we continue to do it today we also tend to learn from history and place into perspective simple helpful healthy and safe practices coming through the experience of history of pandemic such as the Spanish flu. Records emerge which to Mond careful evaluation and study especially if in context Floridian us may be allayed prevented the media rated or relieved along with healthful asfast of principles in daily living. The seemingly agreed to leading health professionals will share this thoughts inspired and motivated by the journey they themselves have made with exposure to the influence of the editor's health the loss of in practice going through some of its flagship institutions with 1800000 confirmed cases at least 115000 this this demands that research further and tonight I'm excited that the symposium is taking place to explore where to from here. I need to add as all responsible leaders would do the views expressed in the seminar are the views of each individual and do not represent necessarily the views of the 7th Day Adventist Church what a privilege it is for me to welcome you on behalf of our health systems our church and the work that we pray is going to make the difference in a very real way God bless. Thank you so much Dr landless that was very inspiring and along these lines of learning about the historical nature of some of the treatments that you're going to be hearing about with the 1800 h one n one flu we want to look at Loma Linda University Loma Linda University as my alma mater it's where I was able to do my residency as well in obstetrics and gynecology and they have a long very long history of looking at the whole person at this point I want to introduce my friend and my mentor Dr Richard Hart Dr Hart is an internist and he's also the chief executive officer and president of Loma Linda University Health Dr Hart is going to be telling talking to us about the current state of coke at 19 and Loma Linda University as a historical perspective thank you Dr Hart for joining us now here later and it's good good to be with all of you as Dr Lammas referenced the health work of the administers began back in the 1800s but really picked up steam in the 800 were somebody that many of us have heard have joked to John Harvey Calla and recently Kellogg that kind of the find the whole concept of fomentations of hot and cold treatments of physical therapy various ways of the inventor of many ideas at that time that were patented and became a national and even international figure in treating patients for various diseases before we have antibiotics and many of our modern medicines if you look at back at the way health care was practiced the time it was pretty abysmal we was in things who were doing far more harm than good Dr Kalak started his own medical school in 895 in Battle Creek Michigan and fomentations and these kinds of hot and cold treatments were center part of that medical school that school only lasted for 15 years and. Close in 1010 ironically for those you the administration the Ednas Turchin actually had to medical schools from 199-1010 because Loma Linda University began in 1005 with the medical school started 1000 or 9 and many of our initial faculty came from the American medical missionary college which was the name of the school in Battle Creek that Dr Kellogg it started and so when Loma Linda University started its long project tree for 115 years now fomentations hot and cold treatments and all the natural remedies were I a natural part of what we offer to the public we could quickly gained a reputation here in Southern California and that has been part of our wholeness tradition since that time so it's rather interesting now that another unseen enemy the novel coronavirus has come back to start this world that we're going back and looking at some of these treatments a resource active 100 years ago so as we go through this seminar today it's my privilege to watch our colleagues many of them global and alumni share their knowledge and skills as they bring forward the treatment options that we have and try to deal with code 1000. We have been protected here in Southern California we hope it will stay that way we only have a few patients in our hospital but we are looking at these kind of treatment modalities as a way to deal with this infection that really has no other effective treatment at this point time so with that fascinating history going back a 100 plus years in our own history and even before that in the end it's church it's a privilege for me to be part of this and bring all of this interest and expertise to the table thank you for being part of it. I Ding informational session that we're learning at this time we want to delve into the history closer let's look closer at what happened in 1800 What were some of these principles that Dr landless and Dr Hart have now talked about that were actually taking place what results actually happened when hydrothermal therapy was employed in the 1918 influenza virus at this point I want to introduce you a good friend of mine Dr Neal negli Dr negli is an internal medicine physician hospitalised and also the president of Wiemar Institute Wiemar is very well known for its holistic lifestyle medicine Dr Natalie is going to be looking at as for the 1981 n one influenza case study thank you for joining us Dr Natalie well thank you and good to be with all of you this evening just to review in 1018 they flu pandemic according to the c.d.c. estimates today as that 675000 deaths occurred in the United States alone 50000000 deaths worldwide so this pandemic as far as its deaths are concerned are far above where we're at now with coping 19 Interestingly most deaths occurred in those under the age of 5 between the ages of 20 and 40 and over the age of 65 and this is according to the c.d.c. data now in during this pandemic and America was well out and that the Army hospitals were actually the best place to go and military hospitals to get treated for the s. and times out that an army camps 20 percent of those in the camp ended up getting the Spanish influenza symptoms and ended up being diagnosed with the Spanish Flu 16.7 percent of those army personnel developing influenza contract had pneumonia. And out of those that contract of pneumonia 40 percent of them died so if we take a look at the statistical death rate for someone getting influenza in the best medical treatment available at least thought to be the best at that time was 6.7 percent death rate and if we took a look at the entire army camp and again 80 percent did not get the flu in the army camp 1.34 percent of all army camp personnel died from the flu and this was reported and a journal in May of 1919 Dr Rubel also reported on some comparison data that were received from 10 sanitariums much of a lot of the personnel no sanitariums had been trained by Dr Kellogg in this hydrothermal therapy aspect of things it turns out there were 446 that were treated. That had influenza symptoms and sanitariums from the very beginning in other words at the very beginning of symptoms they were treated in this sanitarium 677 were treated with hydrotherapy and non supervised settings in the community based on other words this was being done in home settings. Or an outpatient settings that was not a facility like a sanitarium So a total in those 10 sanitariums as clothing the communities around them that they had trained some all in the home setting there were what over 1100 influenza patients treated 55 of the community patients contracted pneumonia but most had pneumonia that was quotes well established by the time the hydrotherapy had started 47.2 percent of those pneumonia patients died that's $26.00 out of the $55.00 and so 3.8 percent of the total out patients with the flu died and that is a number that actually is. Pretty significant when you compare it with the Army Military Hospital that now out of those that were treated in the sanitarium from the very beginning with influenza symptoms only 2.4 percent of those actually got pneumonia. 54.5 percent of those with pneumonia died so there were only 11 out of those $446.00 who developed it 6 of those died so the death rate of those with ammonia was about 55 percent but if we take a look at the total and flu ends of patients who died who had received hydrotherapy in the sanitarium from the beginning that would be 1.3 percent so if we take a look at the best medical care available to that time 16.7 percent of those got pneumonia 2.4 percent however in sanitarium care in the major difference in care between those 2 places wise hydrothermal therapy. The death rate in the best medical care for those that had influenza was 6.7 percent but in the best sanitarium care it was 1.3 percent so death rates significantly last primarily due to the fact that the pneumonia rates were significantly less it doesn't appear once a patient was diagnosed with pneumonia that they actually did necessarily better with hydrothermal therapy but during this stage when influenza. And our immune response was starting it turns out that this was a crucial stage of actually having this hydrotherapy potentially apply now if we add to that an additional report from Hutchinson city health officer there were more than 90 of 120 dorm students in one of our seminaries that were diagnosed with influenza most of these were students but some of these were faculty members and most were in that 20 to 40 year old age group which was the high death rate treatment by Dr h. e. Larsen considered good nursing care regulated diet and rest the rest were actually occurred even 2 to 5 days after. There are symptoms had gone there were no drugs administered but hydrothermal Sarah pay with the heat called to the chest throat and abdomen in those $90.00 cases 0 cases of pneumonia and no deaths the Hudson says city health officer reported on this afterwards and he said this record is remarkable It makes the ordinary methods of dealing with the flu appear irrational and because of this data that has been accumulated over 100 years ago the question is what can we do now in regards to deadly viruses before a psycho kind storm occurs thank you so much Dr Natalie that was very very and from ational you know that's the very question that each of us want to ask does this apply to us now is there any research since 100 years ago to involve the idea that hydrothermal therapy hot and cold treatment actually does this the immune system at this time I want to introduce my colleague Dr Roger shall Dr Roger she is a pole monologist and intensivist He's also assistant professor of medicine at Loma Linda University and co-founder of med cram an online educational company Dr Shu out we have a question for you does the science say hydrothermal therapy works today. Well thanks Lael if Thanks for inviting me on and we've been tackling this very question on our website we've been looking at this it's funny you know how mother the necessity is the mother of invention and with this epidemic and what's going on right now we are looking desperately for things that can help and and looking back far enough we can find it so that is the question this hydrothermal therapy work what does the science say you know we are fully in pandemic mode here with Kovan 1000 and the deaths don't seem to be slowing down but very early on in this pandemic we had some good data coming out of the Lancet that showed that there was 3 phases essential to this there's the phase prior to infection and then there is the part after infection there's about a 5 day period of time where there is a symptoms no symptoms and then about a 7 day period of symptoms and then some people get worse need to go to the hospital and from there things to go pretty bad pretty fast one day from admission to worsening shortness of breath another day to r.d.s. And then finally into the intensive care unit and so with that in mind but sort of go over those those phases there we've got a population that is exposed and then there is an infection that must occur we're doing isolation social distancing at that point to interrupt this phase and then there's face to face to is when you have symptoms you're infected and you're not yet ready able to be admitted to the hospital because your symptoms are not that bad and it seems as though the data showing that about 20 percent of coven 1000 patients will fit into this category and will need to go on to hospitalization will need a ventilator i.c.u. etc and it's in this phase 3 that we're doing a lot of work of course with randomized placebo controlled trials on different antiviral medications on anti-malarial medication medications ventilators ice universes we're not doing a lot here in phase 2 and this is the phase where basically we're telling patients from the emergency home to go home to self I see. Late themselves and to basically wait to see whether or not they're going to be in the 20 percent or in the 80 percent now fortunately 80 percent of these patients will get better on their own they won't need health care they won't need oxygen and the main reason for that is the human system so let's talk a little bit about the immune system immune system is made up of 2 different parts the innate immune system and the adaptive immune system you get both when you're born the enabling us system is very powerful when you are 1st born this is the part of the immune system that gives you a fever this is the part that goes around eating up particles called the p a m P's or molecular patterns that look abnormal and they present it to the adaptive immune system which finds it remembers it keeps memory cells of it so the adaptive immune system the one on the right is the one that remembers vaccines the one on the left is the one that goes out and scavenge and and looks for particles what we're finding out is that when we give and a vaccine that vaccine is going to cause memory cells on the right in the adaptive immune system but there's a spillover of activation in the innate immune system as we're going to find out here very shortly it's the innate immune system that seems to be crippled with this covert 19 and I want you to remember a couple of cells there's the natural killer cells which are descendants of a live boy that progenitor them for progenitor but nevertheless it's part of the innate immune system and then these monocytes that are part of the innate immune system we're going to talk about that so there was an article that was published out of a center of excellence in Thailand titled immune responses in covert 1000 potential vaccines lessons learned and basically the point of this article was to compare the 1st SARS virus in 2002 with the one in 2012 that was murders and those are both coronaviruses. And to use the understanding of that in comparison to what's going on right now with SARS 2 and coven 19 and in this article they pointed out a number of interesting things number one that increase in neutrophils and a decrease in lymphocytes was very similar to the prior to infections and this correlated with an increased chance of death there it's well known that the 1st SARS virus and Mers both suppress the innate immune system and that cove in 1000 the current 1 May dampen antiviral I offend responses resulting in uncontrolled viral replication you know that's something that we've seen a lot of is people just are infected for a long period of time and they just can't kill the virus and get better so what's going on there they definitely say that there's an issue with the innate immune system and that it's suppressed at 1st and then allowed to go into overdrive causing potentially that cytokine storm and I think this paragraph in the article really says that it's a based on the accumulated data for previous corona virus infection and Nate immune response plays a crucial role in protective or destructive responses and may open a window for immune intervention at. At the total neutrophils of the sites during Copa 19 SARS comes to probably induces a delay type one i.f.n. and law viral control in an early phase of infection individual susceptible to Kovan $1000.00 are those with underlying diseases including diabetes hypertension and cardiovascular disease in addition no severe cases were reported in the young children this is at that time when and Nate's immune response is highly effective these facts strongly indicate that innate immune response is a critical factor for disease outcome and we can see here and here's another paper that was published back in 2004 on the 1st SARS virus that notices that these natural killer cells are at a very low percentage in comparison to a regular bacterial infection there's another paper that was published in Nature Medicine This was recently published just last month that took a woman who was in China infected with Kovan $1000.00 and was hospitalized in Australia they did an essential work up on her and noted that yes for monocytes a natural killer cells were suppressed. What's going on exactly this is a another paper that was just published last year before Copa and it showed that b.c.g. vaccination even though it targets the adaptive immune system here on the right there is a spillover and it seems to induce an energy into the innate immune system allowing it to fight better Sun other words they saw a more than normal reduction in viruses when they were given the b.c.g. vaccine and so that has led to a multi-nation strategy of potentially vaccinating people again to the b.c.g. vaccine well something else has come up that's very interesting and this is a paper that was published by Dr Ashish Comet who is a urologist at m.d. Anderson in Texas and what they've noted is if you look at countries here in light yellow These are the countries that give the b.c.g. vaccine in these countries the mortality rate is about 10 times less than in countries that have never gotten the b.c.g. vaccine those are the countries that are in dark orange like Canada the United States and notably Italy. The countries in purple are countries that used to give the b.c.g. vaccine but are no longer given the b.c.g. vaccine so the question is is what is it about this in a immune system and what is being done about it so of course this is not just news to us there are several companies that have looked at the innate immunity of the body and of target this for cancer research and now that they see a much bigger issue in terms of coping $1000.00 their repurpose and their technology for this and there's a company that's looking at placental Mesenchymal cells to have them derive into natural killer cells to see if that can fight the fight against coven 19 there was another company out of Israel that was doing a small trial they tried in 8 patients again using Meza climb will strong will cells from the placenta that will readily differentiate into natural killer cells and they're finding as it says here in this article 100 percent survival rate this was just published just a few days ago. Here's another one this is a South Korean company that's looking at natural killer cells so this seems to be the focus of where we are going so in short summary on this action I think a good working hypothesis would be that SARS comes to infection down regulates and 8 immunity and that SARS comes to is allowed to progress because an 8 immunity is not strong enough and that strengthening that and made immune system might be a place to stop Kovan 1000 especially in this very sensitive phase 2 where not much is being done patients are being sent home from the hospital and asked to stay there and isolate insole they get worse is there something that we can do in this very long stage about 7 days it seems like on average Well there's a lot that we can do and we've got a lot of evidence for this and we could do a number of talks about sleep with talk about that on our channel and I've seen a lot of talk on the internet about that nutrition we haven't covered yet but there's a lot of stuff we can do there there's others you know Dr never was talking about the sanitarium talk certainly hydrotherapy was going on there there were also taking them outside in the sunlight there's vitamin d.. What I want to talk about and focus on is water water's a very interesting substance because out of all the substances that we have it really holds heat the most has what we call a high end and full of heat so what do we know about this well let's go back to a German study in 2002 that I think should start us off let's look at the cellular biology here they took about 12 healthy volunteers and the only reason why they needed 12 is they didn't need to do much to get the full significance this is a pretty high activity here they were immersed them in 39.5 degree centigrade water and what they noticed after that is that not only were there more monocytes so increasing the body temperature increase the number of monocytes but when they took those monocytes outside of their body and put them in to a test where they subjected them to little polysaccharide which basically tells the cells that there's bacteria around they were actually more active than they were when they weren't submerged and $39.00 degrees centigrade which tells us that not only is it not just a parlor trick we're just getting more cells we're actually seeing the cells activated and so the authors of this study concluded that the thermal effect the fever directly activates monocytes which increases their ability to respond to bacterial challenge remember monocytes are part of that very important and mates I mean system and what about what about exposing to colds a lot of times in hydrothermal therapy we will expose a person to cold after heat this is what I'm reading and what it does is instead of allowing the body to dissipate the heat through a base of dilated peripheral vascular teacher it causes vasoconstriction to lock that heat and so here is a paper that was published interrupt the University of Toronto but sponsored interesting lead by the United States military to see what would happen when people were subjected to cold after being in in hot and what they noticed is that the natural killer cells went up statistically significantly the little units in the natural killer cells went up lymphocytes monocytes all of them went up. And that was your native new system to the point where the authors concluded that the study suggests that despite popular beliefs that cold exposure can precipitate that book the spite the popular belief that cold exposure can precipitate a viral infection the innate component of the immune system is not adversely affected by a brief period of cold exposure indeed the opposite seems to be the case the falling core body temperature resulting from cold exposure led to a consistent and statistically significant mobilization of circulating cells and an increase in natural killer cells activity and elevations in i l 6 so I think that was in again only 7 subjects needed for the study because the effect was so profound Here's a Polish study that looked at that apparently in Poland they like to go swimming in the wintertime so they have looked at that we just looked at a study that looked out over just 11 episode what about if we do it multiple times so at the end of a winter swimming season they have people who like to do this 12 habitual winter swimmers and they looked at 8 people that didn't do that I can tell you that I would have been in that 2nd category because I don't really see that the need to go swimming in the wintertime but nevertheless in the part that went swimming in the wintertime they had increased concentrations of leucocytes monocytes and plus mile 6 and they were statistically significantly higher and I can show you more and more studies more than we have time for but the question is is Ok so if we're hitting people up and it worse were increasing the immune system isn't that going to cause more of a cytokine storm isn't that going to make people worse maybe it will get them into the hospital faster than shorter why I think this paper that was published about 5 years ago really answers that question. And what there with this paper title fever and thermal regulation of immunity the immune system feels the heat showed was that fever actually can bring down the number of cytokines Rita listen to what they say in this paragraph although federal temperatures and Micheline increase the production of pro-inflammatory cytokines by macrophages at sites of inflammation there's also evidence that thermal stress dampened cytokine synthesis once macrophages become activate and they go on to talk about these model side derived macrophages and how they look for these p a m P's these these molecular patterns to eat them up and present them and it shows that the messenger r.n.a. which is the message that tells the cell to make the cytokines is degraded by the fever so you actually have less cytokines finally they they mention about a a mouse model of college and induced arthritis and they say they say here that mice exposed to fever range hyperthermia had significantly less joint damage correlating with a reduction in serum tumor necrosis factor levels and increased I'll tempered action in inflamed joints collectively they say the spine is suggest that strategic strategic temperature shifts contribute to a biochemical negative feedback loop that protects tissues against damage from excessive cytokine release following infection Ok So let's summarize here working hypotheses and mate immunity can be strengthened at least by Sara get markers by manipulating external he called the plight of the body Number 2 heating and cooling seems to increase markers of an 8 immunity like natural killer cells and macrophages and there are 3 these interventions don't necessarily seem to exacerbate the side a kind storm implicated in ards or an ammonia. All right well what about real people and real diseases enough with the cells well for that we've got to go back to the last century there was a famous psychiatrist Julius Wagner Jorak who notice in the psych wards that people with neural syphilis got better when they had a fever Well at that time they didn't have penicillin this was well before penicillin but they did have quite an sulfate which is the treatments for malaria so we had this idea what would happen if I infected these people with malaria very carefully watching them and then see if the fever treated the patient sure enough it did in 1970 published his 1st report where he actually induced an infection in a patient so he could get a fever the fever the increased temperature in the body cure the patient of neuro syphilis and then he cured the patient of the malaria with the quinine sulphate he won the Nobel Prize for medicine for just that and at the time at that time there was many ways that they can induce a fever malaria was just one of them but as you can see they would inject people a form protein chemical sulfur etc but I find the last one here the most interesting immersion of the individual in a hot bath or placing him in a heat cabinet Well Dr Wagner jor agc as Dr never mention had a colleague across the country in New England Dr Ribble was the medical director of the New England sanitarium which Dr Levy was talking to us about and just to review those results again he noticed that in the cemetery I or the cemetery the 10 the overall mortality was about 1.3 percent as opposed to the overall in the army camps of 6.4 percent now this is where they were using aspirin it had just come out in 899 they were suppressing fevers they were all the sea they were in big tents they were all crammed in the air was not that clean so why was the why was the mortality again lower in the sanitarium than it was in the Army hospital it wasn't because they were doing a better job of treating the Monia No indeed there are more. How the rate for pneumonia was was arguably higher than it was in the army camp it's because less people got pneumonia so only 2.5 percent of people in the sanitarium got pneumonia whereas 17 percent of the people in Army hospital got pneumonia and at that time before antibiotics pneumonia was a bad bad thing to have by the way Dr ruble what the doctor ruble attribute his success to and if I could think it's very interesting to read the last sentence in his write up which was published in Life and Health May 1st 1900 he says the principal merits as far as treatment was concerned was placed in careful nursing and hydro therapeutic remedies so there's many many ways that you can raise a core body temperature as we've just some This is a example of a sauna here we see the tradition in Finland go on many years we'll talk more about Finland but you get hot and as soon as you get hot you jump into a very cold pool what we believe this does is it clamps down the peripheral vascular sure keeps the heat in higher and longer but what about we talked about people and we've talked about disease let's talk more about people and diseases and less about cells because that's really really want to go so here is a placebo Here's a randomized prospective trial I should say that went on for 6 months 2 groups 25 in one group 25 in the other group the 25 and one group had a sauna bath similar to this one the 2 times a week the control group did not after about 3 months there were half the number of colds in the sauna bathing group than there was in the control group and this was statistically significant down Sapir level of less than 2.01 and it wasn't in particular one or 2 people it was across the board that brought that number down so it seems as though this was a political across the board here's another study just this was 3000 subjects. And it was only over a month and what they asked him to do was to instead of just showering hot is the shower hot and then cold at the end to keep that heat in and cause days of constriction and what they noticed is in the intervention group there was a 30 percent reduction in sick days at work 30 percent reduction in sick days at work in other words they got sick but it reduce the severity of it so they didn't have to miss work that was a prospective study or study I find fascinating there was a study that was done in Finland and for those of you don't know just about everybody in Finland doesn't as we'll talk about that little bit more this was a prospective study it involved 2200 men and back in the early eighty's they did a questionnaire and they asked them very simply do you use a song about once a week twice a week 3 times a week or 4 times a week and that's pretty much the kind of question that you have to ask and fill in because less than one percent of them don't take us on about just about everybody does and what they did is they followed them for about 26 years and because it's a socialized medical system over in Finland they were able to look for the names and find out how many times they've been hospitalized in their hospital system for pneumonia were this is what they found they found out for if you look if they reference those who only took at once or less per week and said that that was the reference those who took at $2.00 to $3.00 times per week had a 33 percent less chance was associate with a 33 percent less chance of getting the Monia those greater than 4 or equal to 4 almost cut it in half now this is an association study but they can listen to all the things that they took into consideration for confounders body mass index smoking history diabetes heart disease asthma bronchitis tuberculosis education cholesterol alcohol consumption total energy intake socio economic status physical activity Syria active protein despite all. Of that there was still a statistical significant difference and let me just tell you there is a plethora of data on this that shows that this is not just for pneumonia it's also for cardiovascular disease it's for dementia all of these things are related and you can look at the research on Finnish saunas So what's the working hypothesis heats followed by cold improves in 8 immunity significantly enough to reduce actual diseases not just cell counts such as colds from viral infections as we saw severity of illnesses and even among us requiring hospitalization and many more studies as we've talked about However we still haven't talked about coven 1000 which is why we're all here and it's really difficult to do that because we have to do studies in the current environment we didn't have Kobe 1000 before November and December of last year so let's go back to Finland and sonnets. A little bit more information because although me be clear Sonas are not the only way you can induce to have high core temperature elevated there's many ways but this lends itself to such an interesting example that it needs to be pursued I believe there's about 5500000 people in Finland there's about 3300000 Sonas in Finland and as you can see with a regular sauna you can get a lot more than 2 or 3 people to the point that if you asked all the people in Finland to go into a sauna all at the same time they could actually do it and it would hold the entire country greater than 99 percent of the population of Finland has a song about at least once per week now while some of us are very popular in Germany and Austria and Sweden and Norway not nearly as close as they are in Finland so that gives us a very interesting opportunity we can go and look at the numbers and so there's a website called World ometer and you can look at the number of cases total cases total deaths total pick cases per population 1000000 total everything you can look at everything and break it down so we've done that and I find it very interesting here that on a population level if we look at the United States here in terms of population cases deaths cases per 1000000 deaths per 1000000 and when the 1st case came and what the University of Washington modeling says will be the peak Dummer of deaths per day when we do get to r.p. you can see here that when we compare Finland to other Nordic countries very similar to it in culture and in health care systems we can see here that the number of cases in Finland are less than half in number of cases of deaths almost an order of magnitude less the number of cases per 1000000 less than half the number of deaths weigh less and that is the spite the fact that Finland was the 1st country out of those Nordic countries to have a covert in $1000.00 positive case if we look at the restrictions that are going on there they have their schools closed just like Norway how the school the schools closed and there's non-essential stores that are. Those essentially with us and if you look at testing that amount of testing going on in Finland per 1000000 is not that different than what's going on here in the United States so we have looked at the evidence for hydrotherapy in terms of coven 1900 from a cellular level biochemical level and we have looked at it from individuals with diverse diseases we're talking about colds flu viruses illnesses pneumonia and we've looked at it in a sense as a serious hit and really matters a lot of confounders with the population data but we've haven't looked at it in real time because if this should have worked we would have expected it to work for Finland because they're so dogmatic and religious about doing their hydrotherapy So I think that's a really interesting statement and where we are right now is we have to remember something about the good is not the enemy of the perfect there is no f.d.a. approved medication or treatment for co the 19 there are many therapeutics that are being looked at and some are very promising so we've got to look at this good versus perfect I mean look at the c.d.c. website if you don't have personal protective equipment they're actually recommending that you use a bandana or a scarf that's because what else do we have we don't have studies on bananas and scars but we've got to do the best that we have with what we have. Keep in mind that if we come up with a medication that works beautifully and perfectly how are we going to scale up that amount of medication that fast at this point in time the day that it was announced that hydroxy chloroquine was going to be a good medication and promising you couldn't get it in the pharmacies and so we have to take things with some understanding physicians right now and I'm on the front lines as well I've been treating patients last week with Coburn 1000 we don't have all of the answers we don't have all the evidence but we have to use what we've been given and that's the definition of compassionate use so we'll finish up with this slide and I want to keep in mind we've got phase one. To prevent infection that's social isolation that's distancing we have phase 2 and there's millions of people in phase 2 what are we going to do with all the people in phase 2 that could be helpful and then we've got Phase 3 this is where we have hospitalization ventilators randomized placebo controlled trials medications to try to prevent the patient from dying and so with that what I think we need to do is talk a little bit more about practicalities and I'll hand it back to Layla to introduce our next guests. Thank you so much doctors for all that was it was amazing I hope all of us can re watch that over and over again that is absolutely amazing Yes at this time we want to talk about 4 potential protocol scenarios and again I'm going to reintroduce a couple of our guests and introduce you to a couple of new so we have Dr Charles Marcel Dr Mary fallacy adjunct professor of law Melinda University he is an academic internalised and he's a former administrator and past dean of the Faculty of Medicine and health sciences and Monta Morello's University we also have Dr John Kelly who will be presenting as the founding president of the American College of life John medicine he teaches for lifestyle medicine for medical professionals we will also have in our panel Dr Erik Nelson he's the assistant professor of surgery at the University of Tennessee Chattanooga and finally we'll be having Dr Roger Schwab who needs no new introduction before each of these gentlemen present in the order that they were introduced we will be looking specifically at the phases that Dr Shaw just discussed phase one phase 2 and Phase 3 doctors ino will be discussing this really on the category of the patients that are in the community that have not yet necessarily had symptoms Dr John Kelly will be discussing part of the beginning of face to specifically in regard to the patients who have been exposed what can they do and is there ways that we as physicians and medical professionals can learn more on hydrothermal therapy practically speaking Dr Nelson will be talking to us from his hospital's perspective Erling or is doing as just or had an approval for an i.r.b. proposal for phase 3 patient population. Yes and he'll be presenting that along with a doctor shall too will be talking to us about the i.c.u. patient at this time I'm going to turn it over to Dr Xeno as soon as doctors you know is over we'll just proceed right through with Dr Kelly Dr Nelson and then concluding with Dr doctors you know thank you so much Thank you Leila. What I will do is. Kind of fun part a little bit those phases that Roger mention. In the 1st place we can see the bulk of people are really individuals who are not or affected with 19 you know the they don't have either contact with or. They. They have been in contact and they're no longer susceptible that's what we believe for some of the people who already have the infection so these individuals actually that's a large number of people this is not a slight sense that we're using. So a large number of people and for health care workers this fall into a group that's kind of an intermediate because it's on one side people who are not infected but people who are high risk so for all of the doctors and nurses and health care workers and individuals who are working in hospitals and clinics. Your in are in a risk his own even though you don't you don't have the disease you are prone to being in contact with someone with the disease know what that means is that you have to avoid certain things and what you'll be avoiding is contact with the virus itself or avoid contact with someone who has had contact with the virus again and if you have had contact then there are issues about removing the can the contagion if you can do that with us there was Asian or destroying the contagion if you can do that but certainly you don't want to spread the contagion to someone else so these are the issues that we'll be dealing with how you can. Protect ourselves from becoming infected with us then we go to the next slide so here we have these these 4 areas one is the affected but not infected then we have the 2nd treated or positive or tested positive. But no symptoms and then the hospitalized in the i.c.u. patients we're going to deal with those later on the the the group that I'm talking about will do the next will be part of the group on the left and the risk all the way down to being hospitalized and we can with ability not with that in mind the population that we're dealing with is really the largest subset of everything and this is the individual or this is the group that the frontline health care workers are people with more than that now over 90 afflicts the whole person. Not just their immune system or not just their physical body and if with a look at that if there were lots of help to see that there's a whole whole group of things that are involved that make up the whole person the next like. We are looking at being able to affect the different parts of that circle of all of those things that are evil and what we're trying to do is due in large our tool kit so that we have different things to be able to attend to the various aspects of not only the infection but also the aftermath hand can comment and of the infection that's one. So here are the things that we all know we need to stop the spread of the germs and this is the c.d.c. is one of the C.D.C.'s our displays of looking at what things we have to do and this from a social standpoint we have to we have to will be consistently and constantly telling people that this is something that they need to. If you look at the benefit of doing any of these you will see that there is a benefit for each one and it's a cumulative benefit over all of these it will do them to give the next few days now the immune system is a heart of our defense Heller a great defense is actually and also often in the cities next so the Harvard. Medical letter actually put out a well researched. Study national study a report on things that we can do to strengthen the immune system and I have a list here of common things that people do not realizing perhaps that these things maybe affecting their ability to resist the infection if they were to come in contact with with the SARS of 2 so don't smoke diet high in fruits and vegetables you are better getting enough sleep because the something that might be a challenge for doctors who are on call a time take steps to avoid infection and those of that into the c.d.c. is mentioning but managing stress and exercising regularly and taking steps to avoid infections such as washing our hands frequently and cooking needs there are only going to be using need all of these things are important to help us to have a very resistant insists the next along with this. In the physical realm we're looking at getting 78 hours of sleep preferably at night moderate exercise one hour a day fruits vegetables nuts seeds these are all things that have the micronutrients such as the list that I have below by the mill The 6 by the elite 12 c. d. e. coli and of course some of the minerals like zinc and selenium iron and copper they're hard of them of therapy by the way I'm washing is the heart of her right and avoiding look at you know alcohol avoiding closeable on contact and making contact with your face and eyes and nose and of course social distancing and using when it's full of washing your clothes Let's go. And then we have mental emotional spiritual and social issues for the mental emotional state positive optimistic cultivate an attitude of raising and of course manage stress healthily and I don't use some of the. The negative ways to manage stress and of course don't. Spiritually consider the transcendent by kneeling in what's going on and according to your own tradition you will free and social issues stay connected avoid loneliness there's an epidemic of loneliness that's going on as well and help others with acts of crimes all of these things actually improve the function or uses less so with this we can see that as we do these things we can actually be prevented. Contacting the disease being continued being contagious ourselves with other people and it would have been contact with the virus itself then we have a fighting chance to keep it up. Thank you. Ok Well thank you Dr you know for those thoughts. So if I'll be talking with you tonight if I can see our 1st slide here I'll be talking about another aspect of our hydrothermal therapy next slide will show that it's some going to be talking about the aspect that has to do with a what you might call the all patient phase or the 1st part of the doctor's. Phase to the any percent that don't need the hospital doesn't actually shows have been talking about. Treatments just like those that reported in the life and health journal issue may in 1900 that we've been speaking of different ones have talked about tonight you know one of the more important and prominent hide if there hydrothermal therapies used in Spanish flu pandemic was called a fomentation we've already heard that term tonight we might better refer to it today perhaps us. He packs as a next slide shows here I have a couple of pictures we see that they on the left the photo from that issue that demonstrating the nurse putting a hot foot bath. To the patient who is subject who's in bed now you want to keep them warm and the photo on the right shows actually be talking in a minute about the moist heat pack being wrapped in the towel to keep it from injuring the skin Ok so the next slide will show here we're talking about again what they call in that issue from an Taishan So the subject is on their back in the bed plenty of covers you want to keep the subject warm during any of these treatments we use a hot foot bath the temperature of the water would range typically from 104-2110 degrees Fahrenheit However for diabetics or those with any kind of neuropathy or or sensation deficit we should keep the water at $100.00 or less we would be applying cold terrycloth. To the head we want to keep the head cool at all times during these hideouts I will treatments partly is to protect the brain but it's also to make the treatment treatments more bearable for the subject we wanted to be pleasant and not unpleasant so we would start with more used heat pack we wrapped them as the pictures showed in a towel we would begin by putting one underneath the subject based. We going from the nape of the neck to the pelvis and on the lower side then we would put a wrap he packed on the chest and cover the subject with blankets as the next slide shows here is a picture for again. From that same issue showing the nurse making an exchange of the chest heat pack and next slide will continue with a little narrative So place the top fomentation every 4 or 5 minutes in between we would rub the chest with a cold terry cloth This is not so much just cool the body but as a sort of trap the heat and also make it more a bearable to again to the subject we will continue this for 3 or 4 exchanges are or until profuse perspiration develop but again it's important to keep the head cool and this does help control the perspiration and allow us to have a longer treatment I typically for example would change that cloth to the head every minute perhaps more frequently depending on how the subject is feeling so we're going to end with a cold Terry called rub to the chest and cover up the subject with blankets to keep warm keep the heat in we're going to pour some cold water over the feet and remove the hot foot baths and again wrap the feet up nicely we're going to continue the cold application to them hand to keep the head cool and then we're going to have bed rest when the perspire ation subsides next light will show not going to talk about the hide this other treatment but an alternative hard to thermal treatment of the hot tub bath. Have this description in the slides you can see later. Must go to the next line so we know now that we understand how the hydrothermal therapy produces a hyper. Thermic state that sort of induces a fever like respond. It's that aids in fighting the virus as Dr swell so well showed us and presented from the papers science team is should begin as soon as infection is known or reasonably suspected no wait for symptoms necessarily. And we want to do these treatments once or twice a day at that rate we can be continued quite some time I have seen cases where 3 or 4 times in a day for to try to get a more intense treatment but those should not be continued long and all the last light I have are actually is to show that along with some others we organize the Haida thermal training course actually and you can see the where we have an e-mail you can contact us at hide their training course at g. mail or you can contact me directly thank you for the chance to share with you Miss tonight Hello thank you for the privilege of being on this August panel I'm very privileged to be here and talk about our inpatient protocol for providing hydrothermal therapy to non i.c.u. Co in 1000 positive in patients I want to thank God Dr Greg stanky for his work in developing this protocol and implementing it as a hospitalist here that Chattanooga area we're very excited we just got our RB approval 3 days ago and we've already got one or 2 patients on the study. If you want to go to my next slide it describes our protocol very briefly it involves 25 minutes of heating pad treatment to the chest followed by about a one or 2 minute thermal lock as doctors well described provided by cool or cold Maurice towel patients and dry thoroughly and warm blankets to replace This is repeated approximately 4 times per day as you've already heard from the other presenters there's a variety of methods whereby you can apply heat to the body we've personally chosen the firm for heating pads to maximize patients and nursing safety This reduces the number of trips in and out of the patient's room and of course every trip in and out of the patient's room requires a nurse to burn through some of that precious personal protective equipment that is so scarce right now so we're using a thermal for heating pad if there were cores become too scarce and we run out we do have bare huggers and the negative pressure room is available doctors thank yous had some experience using our bare huggers as well but of course the blowing air with a bare hunger does give some safety considerations in light of aerosolize ation. It is in addition to a standard you might in attics re monitoring skin temperature and systemic temperature in a way that doesn't require the nurse to enter and exit the room the goals of this trial are to activate the presumed immune modulating benefits of hydrothermal therapy you've already heard from other presenters and I personally believe that the sudden temperature changes induced at least a d. margin nation of white blood cells and perhaps this allows them to redistribute throughout the body in addition some of the basic science of doctors well presented demonstrates an activation of the innate immune response at a cellular level there's of course also immune modulating benefits to the body's response as Dr Kelly just mentioned we're hoping to induce a fever but not above 140 Greece we do of course house an exclusion criteria any patient with history of home control he reveals pregnant patients patient that has secondary hemophiliac acidic limb for his d.s. I chose this with an h. score of $169.00 that indicates they're pretty close to a cytokine storm and although it may be that hydrothermal terribly is helpful in that we're not willing to risk this in this is ability case control trial are primary outcomes of interest or length of stay and disposition to the patient go to the intensive care unit or they go home we dichotomize our oxygenation variable although we might collect some additional data on that and of course for secondary outcomes we have lots of lab parameters that we're testing as part of the overall protocol that our hospital follows we're simply adding hydrothermal therapy to the protocol that our hospital already has put in place I'd like to end by inviting any watching physicians who treat Kovan 1000 positive patients in the inpatient setting to consider implementing this or some similar protocol hopefully. Many centers Yes I r b a cruel to collect data and a similar protocols are used perhaps and that analysis of data in the future will be possible increasing statistical significance for any findings that you see my email on the screen my personal email address I am happy to share our protocol detail nursing instructions the doctor style he has developed our data collection sheets consent forms any basic science papers such as the one that describes the h. score and cetera I'm happier of you to modify them to fit your own needs in your own setting again you see my e-mail emails and 06 am at yahoo dot com I want to thank you in advance for considering not only the patients you're currently treating but the need to expand the evidence basis for treating future patients with hydrothermal therapy I'll be happy to take any questions during the question and answer period thank you for being part of this call. Well thank you very much and so I will I'd like to cover the intensive care portion of this and it's not too different from my colleague Dr Nelson it's an inpatient but there are a couple of distinguishing factors that have to be taken into consideration whenever you're applying heat to the patient you've got to be careful that it doesn't burn actually it will hold off on that slide and so the end yeah so when you have an unconscious patient who's on the ventilator it's very important that the that the hot towel is not going to burn the patient so that's a very important consideration Sometimes it may be as simple as holding medication that may be suppressing a fever you may have noticed that a lot of the things that we're doing here we're looking at the protocols and the foot Bassam things and this this stuff may look a little bit crazy may not have seen this stuff before but keep in mind that the target that we're going towards is increasing the core body temperature you know it seems as though Koeppen 1000 is a perfect virus to use this on number one face to last up to 7 days on average so there's a lot of time to work there the other thing that's very interesting about it is that probably more than SARS one SARS 2 or coven 1000 seems to suppress fevers more than usual and so a lot of people actually have the virus don't know they have the virus and have no fever and that may be the reason why the virus is able to replicate replicate and spread so if we can increase the core body temperature using whatever techniques are available to us that may actually help quite a bit in terms of speeding up recovery and then not spreading the virus it's a possibility in the intensive care patient as I mentioned you may not want to try to treat fevers as aggressively we've noticed that patients coming in with Kovan 1000 have elevated liver function tests and so that would be a relative contra indication the using Tylenol there's already been some debate about you. Using non-steroidal as we do know that non-steroidal anti-inflammatory medications inhibit the production of prostate gland ins which are directly responsible for antibody production of course that's the adaptive immune response and not the innate but nevertheless important finding a Dr Nelson has already described the the issues involved with blowing hot air we want to minimize blowing things around because that can stir up and aerosolize a coven 1000 viruses another thing that I might want to add is you know the ice use that I work in both in banning and in Redlands I've been extremely supportive I have nurse practitioners that are eagerly awaiting to start a study one of the things that I was reminded by Carey one of my nurse practitioners that I have the privilege of working with she happens to be a physical therapist in her past and she remembered many hospitals have something called the hydroxyl later you may want to check in your hospital setting if you also have a hydroxyl later this is usually in the physical therapy department and it allows you to have silica gel filled pads that can be heated and ready for use at any given moment and these things can be laundered so it might help in terms of a quick ments and things of that nature so that's it from an intensive care standpoint what I'll do now is I'll hand it back to doctors you know Marcel who has some more words for us. Thank you gentlemen that's was very insightful we want to just we will be bringing this up again at the conclusion but we want to bring it up now for those of you who are interested and I'm speaking to our medical professionals on our hospital affiliates if you're interested in pursuing a multi-site trial similar to what has been described by our panelist again you can go to our Facebook group where our panelists will all be able to respond to you and we'll be providing that to you again at the conclusion of the program at this time Dr Charles doctors you know Charles Marcel is going to present to us pacifically what the science says and what the science does not say doctors you know thank you Larry. You know I'm going to be somewhat skeptical I want to play the skeptic because we have all of this good information and we have. Good studies but we always have questions that we need to answer so I'll start with the 1st case here's a case of a 70 year old man 11 the history of fever and delirium who has the influenza this was during the time of the pandemic back in 1918 by the time he presented to the senator was unconscious his temperature was 103400 or 39.4 something. He had edema of the neck he had redness and information office throat he also had inflammatory idiom of the Left Well that's what they call it in those days. Similar to Brumfiel pneumonia and he had a distribution that was consistent with that his physician had become ill and left but had given the patient's daughter the or the new. Lead there of this man would occur within 2 days. Well they got a nurse they'll come and apply the treatments they used the treatment regimen that they were using back then for the pandemic pneumonia this was applied at 4 pm in the evening the nurse saw nor discoverable change in has been this year however the let's morning by either well the physician who was visiting saw her the patient was conscious you know ordinary treatment with repeated twice. During the day is hand attention was Need to the throat and then within a matter of days one week he was back to normal completely recovered the question is what produced this outcome what was it was it wasn't just the height of the work there was the other stuff that was being done that just was not recorded that were not recorded Here's another case a 30 year old woman ill for 4 days I see was that in the midst of the 918 pandemic and Spanish Flu nothing was being done for her she had a temperature of 105 for height of 40.6 Celsius She was delirious and became unconscious with large ears and her back you know what we see in the hospital and sometimes when people are getting ready to die is what she looked like she had for circulation and. They thought well she was alone she had shifting her critters in her lungs mostly over the bark much worse on the dependent side yet she didn't have any specific consolidation her but there were severe pneumonia associated with this Spanish. They quickly apply the treatment. The hot foot by of the hot parts of the church front and back and. They combine this with the cold. Metal friction rub which is a cold treatment right afterwards this was given twice a day 2 days of treatment seemed nearly unavailing But then on the 3rd day clear mind temperature back to normal after 5 days a figment everything was back to normal she survived the question again is what previous that come well what don't we know we don't know how many had that outcome we don't know how many were treated so we don't have the numerator nor the nominee the data what else is going to confirm with these results we don't know what. Was the actual diagnosis that was because they didn't have some of those decimals is what was found in the different centers where people were treated with these treatments with all the same treatments or that they have variations that were significant from one another they all use the same protocol to get similar results well was there a plausible explanation for these things or was there something else with it really indoors where they treated outdoors they had outdoor hospitals in those this which means people but sunshine but also sometimes the hospitals would be cold and people were in them being worse than if they were indoors that they have some exposure they were having with each one n one influenza rock in those days will happen with SARS come to no questions questions questions well here's what we have we have mechanisms by which we know. But this well when you go the fever. Affects the whole sells fever affects the market forces and this is involved in any immunity we also know that Bill will stress produces some things that we call he chucked proteins and these are immune who modulators they affect the verdict cells and. Essentially jumpstart the ability of the body's immune system to go from the innate side over to the acquired Lutie So we have fever and fever Ridge hyperthermia 30.5 to 41 degrees and both of them can can induce this heat shock proteins This is very important what else we have the mechanisms by which we can demonstrate that the heat shop proteins will take the fragments of the virus and present it all the way out to the surface of the cell so that other cells are going and active cells can then be able to know what the enemy looks like what else do we have we have in mechanisms by which using these proteins whether interest solely or extracellular we can affect the immune response both the innate immune response and the abductor in your host forms and we have we have evidence biochemical evidence of how that works using these heats up proteins and of course using one example of each operating 70 we can see all of the various cells that might be affected with and Riddick So as the monocytes. The t. cells are the mark of Asians and of course the natural killer cells all of them can be positively affected by the elaboration or by the specter of heat brutal certainty. And then there's another it's your protein that's 60 in low quality that has. One kind of effect and in higher concentrations it has another kind of effect in other words it can be anti-inflammatory or pro-inflammatory depending upon the amount of this that is elaborated So what we have here is case of all misses where we can see more mouse doing one thing higher miles in something that's what we don't have than the scientific evidence this is the really the height of them up there and it was really the factor that saved the lives of so many during that 180 pound them we don't have specific. Double ballon perceive or controlled trials that show that height of therapy or height of what there are is effective in preventing and treating government team we don't have the one possible control studies that show that SARS come to specifically wife so that he when you have the fences of the level of the real of the unit response even though it is highly evident that this is probably what is going on we don't have any way to know how to stimulate the particularly heat shock proteins at a specific concentration for work at the present site we don't have direct scientific analysis that demonstrate that science part do x. just as it would be in each one and one in 180 we don't have a demonstration that he applied by any method that will have the same or similar results even though we know we can increase the temperature by many different mechanisms we don't have direct evidence that hydrothermal therapy is as we suggest it will be a word that will have the effect in the host a new system just as you predict and hope that it will now I say all that the serious researchers and medical professionals are racing. All around the world to find pharmaceutical solutions and the creativity but we have a history of this model t. being used a long with other things we have plausibility of how it can be done we also have molecular mechanisms that demonstrate that this is not something like by night it's not something weird it's actually scientifically demonstrable through he chopped proteins and other mechanisms so we have indirect evidence that this is something that is useful and probably helpful to them what their opinion is relatively low risk it is perhaps in a jungle. Approach to lifestyle measures and lifestyle practice we don't believe that it's a panacea but while future heart of the one therapy research is needed and absolutely need in the meantime had of them up there he probably won't hurt and hit me. While we search for the needed solutions that what I wanted to use to try something that is so we'll see you Roger. Thank you yes thank you as the now and you know Dr shroud I just want to ask you a very quick question a few days ago you and I were discussing this topic and you said something to me you proposed for solutions for options and it really made a huge impact on me and I was wondering if you could share that with our viewers right now those 4 options of where doctors see no has essentially left us at this point yeah so if we could bring up a Power Point slides there basically this is where we are right now we have to sets of 2 choices it either works or it doesn't work we either do it or we don't do it and if we have the benefit of having randomized controlled trials down the line and we're at that area down the line we're going to know looking down from above whether or not it works or doesn't work but we're not there right now unfortunately unfortunately we're in the here in the now and civil only way we can look at this is from the horizontal side do we do it or do we not do it and you can see they're looking at it horizontally there's a negative in both of those camps of course if you do it and it works that's a good thing if it doesn't work and you don't do it well that's a good thing but if it doesn't work and you do it then you could be wasting resources and time if it if it does work and you don't do it well there's people that could have been saved that didn't save so we can only choose from the horizontal side to do it or not do it and so the question is would you rather do something that doesn't work or not do something that does work and so and that really what it boils down to is the risks and benefits as Dr reso had mention looking at this way we've got this phase 2 and while we can look at all 3 phases and we're primarily affecting right now in our public policy phase one which is social isolation and phase 3 which is getting a tremendous amount of resources at the hospitals where they're currently being overwhelmed in many places in phase 2 it's kind of like the the comp. Before the storm people are sitting at home waiting seeing if their cough and shortness of breath are going to get better or not and then worry about whether or not going to go to the hospital as we said 80 percent of those people are going to get better because of their immune system and we've just gone through a number of different studies and looked at this and at least looks very plausible that if we could stimulate the immune system especially the innate immune system and simulate what this SARS comes to seems to be doing which is down regulating that then even if we're able to get a little bit of mileage and it seems as though we could probably get more Paletta say we go from 80 percent success to 85 percent success well then the number of people having to go to the hospital will be reduced from 20 percent down to 15 and that would be calculated wise only about a 25 percent reduction in the surge which would be a very very large amounts. So the problem is though that there are millions and millions people of people around the world that fit into this phase 2 and so really what is the perfect intervention that you can do in a Phase 2 Remember we're dealing with millions and millions of people that are in phase 2 potentially So number one and this is really important it has to be complementary with current medical care this is not something where we're saying just do this and forget everything else you don't need anything else no please this is not what we're saying this is to be complementary with the current medical situation that you're dealing with it has to be whatever this intervention is going to be it has to be scalable to millions of people right away Ok This cannot be the equivalent of toilet paper on the shelf I Cosco right you've you've got to be able to say this is what we're going to do and it's available for everybody to get and then I have to go out to their pharmacy or perhaps get a test you know as an individual when you're not feeling well so if you need to get a test for Kovan 1000 by all means but it's got to be something that should be able to be started without a test because we just don't have the kind of testing and if you think about this let's think about other people other than ourselves what do we do in prison camps what do we do in refugee camps what do we do in countries that don't have the same kind of health care that we that we have that they don't have access to this they don't have access to the type of things that we're talking about I think the key here is the understanding that we need to get the basal temperature up and depending on what your surroundings are then and those are the tools that you use to do it and everybody has water at home if you want to thousands for the most part and these aren't things that are scarce resources these are things that you can do and take advantage of so it really boils down to risks versus benefits and that decision is going to be between a patient and a physician. Or a patient who understands things through their physician what their risks are you know right now given all of those characteristics of a Phase 2 intervention what other alternatives do we have right now we are months away from a vaccine we are months away from a randomized placebo controlled trial currently the one that we have the most data on it seems right now is hydroxy chloroquine which is a politically loaded question at this point and it's still very difficult to find. Again what's the risks of using a medication like that I'm using medications like that in the hospital because we're trying to do everything that we possibly can we are not making the good the enemy of the perfect you know how long it's going to take us we mention a vaccine and medications because really when you think about it. In the time that we've taken just here right now to talk about this in the last 90 minutes based on the current numbers that we're getting another 381 people around the world have died from Copa 1000 at least those are the ones that we've documented and so my call out to people out there is to is the really the purpose of the symposium the reason why you're here the reason why I'm here is to raise awareness of this possible possible junked of therapy for covert 1000 if you're in the health care industry to raise awareness where you are working that this could be a potential possibility if you are not in the health care industry if you're watching this and you're a patient to do more studying and learn more about this and to affect your lives and other people's he now thank you so much Dr Shah you have said and I just want to recap and make sure that I understand exactly what you're saying because essentially the question comes down to the risk benefit ratio and the risks we've talked about a few of those risks don't seem to be too big comparative to the potential benefit as we've seen through the history thank you again thank you to all of our panelists at this time I am excited to introduce another friend of mine Mark Fenley. Mark Finley is an international speaker assistant to the president of the General Conference a 7th Day Adventists and before we go to Mark Finley I wanted to say one other thing coming back to the historical aspect of this whole 1918 pandemic when we folks back at some of the other principles that John Harvey Kellog was employing as Dr landless and Dr Hart mentioned there are a lot of other aspects to holistic health and what Elder Mark Finley is going to talk to us about just briefly is is there more to this holistic approach we've learned hydrothermal therapy has some potential and we hope to be able to study that but we're also going to talk very briefly about some other principles listen as Mark Finley presents thank you so much. Well I've been asked to talk a little bit about whole person k. or what is whole person care it's a comprehensive full loss of the of health that recognizes that human beings are much much more than biological machines they're more than a collection of organs and tissues and cells whole person care looks at all dimensions of life Sissoko mental emotional and spiritual and as a theologian when I look back at what was taking place in 1918 in these 21 Synod Terry and that had such outstanding results with the Spanish Flu certainly they were doing the hydrothermal therapy they had a program of dietary concern dietary reform really and they were largely on a vegetarian diet in the Senate area. They were using rest as a therapy but there was another aspect of therapy these were 7th evidence institutions where the doctors and nurses believed in the power of prayer they believed that there was a supernatural element in the healing process they believed in this complete comprehensive health program physical mental spiritual and emotional in some of the recent studies 94 percent of the patients today said that spiritual care in one study that I read was as important as medical care for the whole person care in fact 77 percent of the patients in that study said that a physician should be concerned about the spiritual care of their patients as well as the the medical care of them. When you look at scripture the motto here is Jesus Jesus is the model physician the whole person care he opened blind eyes he unstopped deaf ears he healed deadly diseases he restored demoniacs who were mentally insane he fed hungry multitude see forgave sins inspired thousands with new hope Jesus valued human beings from all stratas of society is unselfish ministry flowed from a heart of love to every individual that his life touched you know the Scriptures say that Jesus went about doing good and Christ said this crisis and I have come that they might have a life and they more might have it more abundantly I am so impressed with physicians nurses medical professionals who are in the front lines today who long to see men and women whole who risk their own lives you know often as a theologian I'm asked Where is God in all this where is God in covert 19 and my response is this he's in the heart of every physician who's on the front lines ministering in the he is in the heart of every medical practitioner who's serving unselfishly and revealing compassion he is there with every nurse on the front lines of service he is with the neighbors as they give loving care to their neighbors he's with spouses who serve one another in crisis he is with every person's body is racked with pain and he's there to give them comfort in encouragement I was interested in a statement that Dr Anthony found she director of National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases made today he was asked on this Easter Sunday What role does faith play and healing and Dr found she talked about his own father and how his father was a man of faith and he talked about the fact that in his own medical practice although. That he is an eminent scientist and researcher he said that he believed that faith was one of the ingredients that strengthen the immune system that release positive chemical indorsements from the brain that help to produce healing in so as a medical practitioner as a theologian I want to salute you I want to thank you for being on the front lines thank you for understanding this concept of whole person care that when you're there at the bedside that you are dealing not with a collection of a by a bit of biology merely not simply with about logical machine not a collection of organs tissues and cells but that you're looking at that person you're concerned about that individually physically mentally emotionally and spiritually and sometimes there are questions that we can ask if a person is able to in their conscious unable to to to dialogue with us we might ask them way or in a time of crisis do you find a source of strength and sometimes the person will open up and talk about their own relationship with God We might ask a question May I pray with you and as we do that it can produce strength another per people have confidence in physicians that have a connection with the most high so I salute you for being physicians on the cutting edge of medicine physicians who are willing to try new methods of hyper thermal therapy and participate in a whole person care so as Jesus said men and women and boys and girls get have a life and have it more abundantly Thank you Mayor. Thank you so much Dr Fenley that was absolutely inspirational and I know myself I've personally seen that with patients how many times as an o.b. g.y.n. running down the hall with a patient that I needed to have an emergency c section on and I offer at that split moment a prayer and what a difference it makes at this time speaking of prayer we're going to ask Angeline Brower Dr Angeline Brower is an experienced researcher and registered dietitian and currently serves as the director of health ministry for the 7th Day Adventist Church here in North America and a very close personal friend of mine she's going to have closing prayer for us after she prays I will have a very final quick final wrap up and then we'll open up for question answer again thank you Dr Brower thank you so much Dr Lila and to all of our presenters who lives in a shared information with us tonight you know we've heard a lot about the historical use of hydrothermal therapy we've heard about the relevant modern research and we've heard about potential mechanisms mechanisms of action to confront our current cope with 1000 pandemic. I believe we also now have some better questions to ask and I hope that many of those of you who are listening who may have the ability to play a role in furthering the research to to take us to the next steps through this I hope that you will find an opportunity to do that yes we do have important questions that need to be answered and as was already mentioned we don't want to just seek a panacea we don't want just a quick solution but we want to find out how and in what situations can we utilize this there a p. A to 2. To support what is already being done and I believe we have a viable option to pursue and I also do believe that we can find hope in what we've heard today and so I know many of those of you who are listening today are on the front lines you are the ones working with the patients and you are the ones putting yourself at risk and so what I really want to do is just pray a blessing over you and all those who are risking their lives at this time so let's pray Dear Father in heaven large we are coming before you at a very specific time 1st very specific reason for a very specific need and there are people who are listening to us tonight who are going through ferry very tough situations because they want to save lives they want to minister healing and know they're putting their own lives at risk and I believe you know every single one of them and so we want to ask a prayer of blessing on each one of on their families on all of those who are risking their own lives as well as their families lives so we asked for a time of of peace in their lives we ask that when their strength is almost gone that you will send someone to minister hope to the. We ask that this situation. We'll somehow come to a conclusion we want that more rapidly than anything else right now but we want to also find hope and so we thank you that there are opportunities we thank you that there are those who are continuing to strive to find the right answers and we pray that together we will all come through this situation much stronger for having gone through it so we ask that blessing on all those who are going through these very tough times and this we pray in your name and. Thank you thank you Dr Brower and again I want to say each to each and every one of you thank you for attending this 1st symposium what's exciting is that we have learned so many interesting things that took place between the situation of 1800 and perhaps in the code 1000 situation if you can pull my slides up that would be wonderful We want to talk to you very briefly we've heard it mentioned several times over for ongoing research opportunities again this is something that was we all really want to offer for those of you who are entrusted you can join our Facebook group again you can access that if you're not able to write this number down you can access that through a w.r. dot au r g forward slash health and just join the Facebook group in addition to that next slide please we want to discuss with you very briefly again there are lots of other principles that we've touched on just briefly many of our panelists have agreed that next Sunday at the exact same time 8 pm Eastern 5 pm Pacific we will have symposium part 2 again c.m.e. credits are available and you are welcome to join us again next week we're planning to look at ultraviolet radiation and open space you're not going to want to miss that again and citing information. Again finally as far as the sea Emmys are concerned you do not have to have attended this law I have in order to get c.m.e. credits if some of your colleagues were unable to attend today please feel free to access the archived video and we will be linking that again to the various locations where you watch this and you will be able to or your colleagues will be able to watch the presentation and then again go to the website. Argy forward slash health and into your information to obtain your sea Emmy's at this time for those of you who are entrusted we know we've got. Just a few minutes over we do want to offer an opportunity of answering your questions if far as possible so many of our panelists will be joining me and we will take your questions as they come up on the screen again thank you for joining us on behalf of Agnes world radio on the 7th Day Adventist Church we hope you will join us again next time now we have some questions coming in and I'm going to wait for our 1st question to come up. One of the questions that actually arose Dr Schwall someone was asking specifically last week in the i.c.u. What did you do for your i.c.u. patients in specifically in regard to hydrothermal therapy. So we have to be careful I have to talk to the nurses this is the 1st week that we actually have patients with Kovan 1000 in the i.c.u. and we were just starting to learn about how to go in and dress and and you think that it's complicated but it's even more complicated when you come out because you could contaminate yourself so after they were comfortable with that what we decided to do was to use very hot towels that were in very hot water bring them out and then make sort of like a sandwich sure there was a dry towel on top to keep the heat and the dry tell on the bottom to prevent the patient from burning we really had to make sure that that it was not too hot because the patient was unconscious we wanted to to see how it was going to work and so we did try that to see if it was something that it was more of a feasibility study to see what was involved and how to do it so it was not a patient that we enrolled in any kind of study or anything like that. We also declined treating the patients fever up to about 103 I want to be conservative I think some people might even say 104 I think there's pretty good data on that and just going to matter of making sure the mindset on the unit is that way because for so long we're so used to treating a fever as something that's wrong when it really in this case it's something that's right it means that the body is increasing temperature the virus is not replicating So we did at 1st I was going to have them do it once a shift we tried to get it to twice a shift and I think that's something in line with what Dr Nelson was writing up over in Tennessee thank you thank you Dr Saltz we're going to try to power through the bunch of questions as fast as possible so I just want to recap again what Dr Nelson and Dr Schwartz have mentioned again go to that Facebook group and if you'd like to learn more or how you can join in the multi-site investigative trial we would really encourage that Ok we have another question that just came and if you can put Please put the question back up. On the screen that would be appreciated thank you so much and the question was does hydrothermal therapy help for those who are not yet officially infected and Dr Kelly I would ask for a very brief answer to that question if you wouldn't mind as far as the community is concerned yes thank you that's a great question and the fact is that the mune system is what's keeping us ofttimes from getting infected are for keeping it from an exposure getting out. Infecting us to create symptoms of course we don't have double blind studies but all the physiology and plausibility indicate yes it should be quite effective Ok thank you so much all right we have another question what are prophylactic in treatment recommendations you can give to someone who is immunosuppressed specifically a counselor survivor bone marrow transplant recipient except Dr Dr Nelson can you answer that and I would also like to ask Dr Xeno to come in as well Dr Nelson how would you help a immunosuppressed patient please. So the immunosuppressed patient is in general going to be benefiting from some of the same treatment protocols I don't know that I would do anything different except try to minimize their immunosuppression throughout this time I'm not an oncologist I'll defer to Dr Shelton probably has more experience in this but in rare cases someone who has undergone some chemotherapy for example and their white blood cell count is extremely low may actually need to have a medication such as new pigeon that can boost their white blood cell count but in general I don't think that the immunosuppressed patient needs to be treated any differently as far as the hydrothermal therapy component that we've been discussing the c. evening. I wouldn't treat them any differently there are a few weeks examples of patients I would treat differently for instance we have a patient on our study right now that had a stroke and the neurologist indicated they were happy for us to have them on our study as long as we waited for 72 hours thank you thank you so much Dr Nelson Dr z. No I just want to come back to that question as far as immunosuppressive a minute suppressed patient there is some other data out there I know some of the things that we're hoping to investigate in future symposiums Can you just give us just that teeniest tiniest little snippet of an idea of what an image as a press person might be able to do and I know it involves those other 7 principles we've sort of talked about. Yes I have talked about a lot of different things but specifically with regard to I guess the mother he. Actually doesn't cool treatments that will cause an increase in the neutral so. So that's that's a positive right I shouldn't say it will but if it will tend to cause an increase in the throughway Let's come. Additionally one of the things that we have talked about. For especially looking at. The 2 who have various kinds of him as a person because of cancer etc We have other protocols that we use with with out of therapy and hydrothermal therapy that we would not get into with this stuff but most of those things are experimental still and we know that in. In controlled trials they're looking to have warming up the sins before using release of the and the for use in chemotherapy and it's showing some good been fascinating but we have another question coming in how effective would exercise be at raising core body temperature followed by a cold shower it's again the same as fact so yes we do know that exercise plan increase our temperature that there can you answer that question for us please yeah we know that that works just very very well actually in fact in that study that I showed you from Toronto where they took people in a warm bath and they then cooled their temperature down and there was an increase of natural killer cells and lymphocytes But what I didn't show you there in that study is that they did exactly the same thing except instead of a warm bath they had an exercise and in those patients the effect was even greater so I think exercise prior to that would be a plus Can I just say as well in terms of cancer and chemotherapy and immunosuppression you know these companies that we mentioned in the scientific part in South Korea in Washington and in Israel they were all looking at natural killer cells to help with immunity in cancer and they've all turned and repurposed their technology to looking at Copa 90 and it's exactly the same things are getting messy income will cells to increase natural killer cells and they're taking it and infusing it into patients who have come into the hospital imagine if we could do the same thing without infusion just do it through through much less invasive ways much earlier imagine what those outcomes might be great when we have another question popping out let's let's go to the next question please and we have hundreds of questions gentlemen so we're going to try to keep our answers as fast as possible because we really would like to answer as many as we can and I'm not sure if some of our other palace will be able to. Pulled in as well when is it too late to start hydrothermal therapy if someone has had it for 10 days but not is hospitalized as of yet Dr Natalie was there a time that Hydra the mother of the is just too late and we should not actually utilize it. Now I don't think it's too late particularly in this case where they're not hospitalized yet I mean that's the whole idea is to try to prevent that hospitalized patient and the worsening of the condition and going to the cytokines storm the big question as if they are in an i.c.u. already and on a ventilator and high people while walls isn't going to help that we still don't know the answer to that but based on historical data it's probably not going to be as helpful as it would only are in the course before the patient does their final deterioration signs so I would actually ask a real quick question as follow up to that is there a time that we should just basically not employ it or should we go ahead and potentially as we're discussing here but 10 Chile investigate opportunities for for further trials and investigation and I think that's kind of where the the question was going doctors Well that's a question for you yeah I mean obviously you're going to have to realize that the strength of the intervention is not going to be as great and you may have the power the study much greater to find whether or not the statistical significance matches up thank you so much I'd have a question just came in can you talk about the phenomena of fever spikes which occur in the evenings Is there a time of day that works best for hydrotherapy Dr Kelly in your experience is there a time that seems to work best for hydrotherapy you know this is a great question and I found it quite interesting in reading the reports from the physicians that were using hydrotherapy in the 180919 and what they said that there was that they and they have more experience than I do to be. Quite honest with you I have almost no experience treating Kovan $1000.00 because I'm a lifestyle medicine doctor but what I would say is they said the most effective time seemed to be just as fever was starting to rise that a hypothetical therapy at that point seemed more effective than at other times going on that I would say let's go the same way any of the other panelists have any other thoughts on that question. Only that in the hospital for a trial we've been advised by some of the lifestyle medicines you see in front of you about the frequency and we are trying to mimic. What might be a natural rhythm of fevers that the body brings in suggesting that we're going to be doing hydrotherapy about every about 3 to 4 times per day thank you Dr Nelson very quick question next does a lector cool heating pad at home work for heat therapy and how long procession now before we answer this gentleman we have talked about a few different mode our I.D.'s in this presentation I would actually ask 1st very very quickly Dr tell us the 3 different ways that we could potentially just I know we have a lot of different ways but 3 different ways we might be able to bring the temperature up and then I'm going to relay the rest of that question Dr Nelson specifically as far as your i.r.b. application Dr Shu out yes so I talked to a good friend of mine earlier this week Dr Benjamin Lao who say actually he was my microbiology teacher in medical school and is written a book that you could probably find on the Internet about it but anyway you can bring it up you can put a towel in the microwave making sure you don't bring your hand you can put a towel into. A pot of boiling water or steam it you can do it that way a lot of times what you find is that the towel doesn't keep the heat him what you really need to do is have heat for about 15 or 20 minutes and if the tell this and last that long what I find is helpful is a heating pad being put on top of it to keep the towel hot and not to lose the heat that's what I find a heating pad probably best for but you can heat up in a hot hot spot 104 degrees and stay in there for 15 minutes and then jump into a cold pool just to keep a lot of the heat in there's many ways of doing it thank you thank you Dr Scott and Dr now send very quickly I know that you guys are using pharma forest tell us a little bit about how long procession that you are recommending and then following that up as far as the cold therapy. So we're using heating pads firma for is actually the brand name of the specific heating pad that we're using because of its cover it tends to provide a more heat it's a very high powered heating pad and the reason we're using that is purely for the safety of the nurses we can't have the nurses going in and out of the hospital room changing out the hot towels or any of these other mechanisms at home would be just fine for providing more Oist heat to the body but we think there before is a very effective I've used them myself we get we got the largest size we're going to be wrapping that around the chest the thermal lock is going to be provided by a more cool towel most patients will probably find that as they do hot and cold treatments over time they'll be able to tolerate a greater and greater temperature differential and will be interested to see if we see that in our patients as well the reason that we are using it for 25 minutes is purely arbitrary the thermal for shuts off after 25 minutes and so that's why we chose 25 minutes for our application of heat of course will be guided by the nurses and how often they're able to get in and out of the room and also patient comfort will have monitors for skin temperature and be monitoring their systemic temperatures as well during that time but our choice of 25 minutes was purely arbitrary Great thank you so much Ok We're going to try to squeeze in just a few more questions we're going to try to keep our answers just as short as possible gentlemen if you don't mind Is there a protocol for out patients for example how can I try this at home Dr Natalie and how we marched and working on this very briefly can you tell us if there's a protocol and in essence how we can practically apply that please Well yes thank you women are instituted actually as coming out with a video every day this next week on how to do that in a home setting and how to do it in multiple ways and so quickly if you just log onto our Web site you'll be able. Here are some more details of what John Kelly prays out of that actually say it in a live treatment setting step by step and I want to plug actually Dr Kelly has a program it's actually a training process is that correct Dr Kelly very briefly that you are teaching to the community yes we are and we're teaching not only just a community but also professionals we physicians and so forth it's. High dose there be training course at g. mail is e-mail and we can get you information about it great and again for our viewers again if you go to our chief forward slash health you can access this information and be able to reference some of these locations such as we mark Dr Kelly's program Dr Nelson and Dr doctors you know I have a quick question for Dr z. Now doctors know you mentioned the dietary nutrition with fruits and vegetables we need another program specifically devoted to dietary needs pression I've heard Dr Kelly speak a different way says we would like to know about plant based diets and do they really improve the immune system Dr Xenon the answer is shortly yes. But we have we have a lot of evidence these research that demonstrates which factor was in the diet actually the most potent in terms of in the motivation so we should do another program specifically on that and efficient and unity Yes thank you so much say you're my state chairman and get more c.m.e. credits how can you go wrong for the c.m.e. credits and and actually learning how to better the health of our patients on ourselves Ok is moist heat better than dry that is a very good question Dr in one or 2 sentences can you answer that for us please you know I don't think it really matters a big difference I'll tell you I was on a conference call teaching us. A number of i.c.u. doctors in Libya a couple of nights ago I was up at 1 o'clock in the morning and they were listening and I was explaining to them what we were just talking about right now and they they're telling me that a number of years ago kind of in their lore they would take very hot sand and they would put it on people it seems as though every culture has known for centuries how to treat this condition and if we kind of lost it in a sense. Hot dry sand is is not. It's not moist heat but it's you know it might be preferable it might be more comfortable and I'll just say at this point one of the things that I really hopeful is that people learn from John and from Dr Natalie and let's let's make it a social media event let's go hash tag hydro for Cove it let's show people doing their hydrotherapy online and sharing it with people so people catch on I think will be a great idea I think that's an awesome idea and I saw Dr Net They put one finger out Dr Natalie do you have an added additional information you want to add to that that moisture seen as more penetrating and so are for actually trying to get into the Palmeri parang coma more ice what have an advantage and not to you know advertise any specific brand but there thermo for it does have one of its newer products has an actual opportunity where you can put a moist towel and protect your skin so again there's many different ways out there we want to discuss explore more of those in a more scientific setting but there are a lot of different ways to get the moisture heat and heat in general Ok we have a question coming in for a specific Lee about drinking hot water does drinking hot water have any benefit doctors seen out. Yes in the in the use of. Part of them a therapy sometimes you need to get the temperature hand drinking hot hot water or warm water and in the old days the u.c.u. was hard lemonade has part of the room. I do the math there is no right and we have time for I think one more question and then we're going to have to wrap it up again we wanted to keep it to getting your 2 hours to Simi credits is our last question and actually I'm really glad this question came up does steam and home waste and have any benefits and gentleman I'm actually going to propose this to each of you and your different aspects but I'm also going to add the following caviar because we've heard this I've heard it about it several different places and I would like to put this one to rest so go ahead and answer as seen from hellacious but I'm also going to add a final part of that that is placing a hairdryer in one's mouth helps to increase your temperature so we're going to hear we don't want to chuckle but we do want to address some of these ideas because we do need to be scientific and factual but and careful as far as this and so 1st question is does demon whole ation have any benefits Dr Shelton I'm just going to go right down the road Dr Twelves you're going to be surprised you could be very surprised there was an article in the British Medical Journal a number of years ago that looked at a device that heated air and they did a randomized placebo controlled trial and in one case it was 43 degrees centigrade versus 30 the 30 was the placebo didn't think it was going to work at 30 wouldn't you know it that the subjects actually reported self reported that their cold symptoms were better and they actually measured the resistance to airflow through the nose and that was actually better when they inhaled at 43 degrees centigrade versus 35 with the British Medical Journal fascinating Dr Kelly in your experience in the community setting community very very briefly answer the question steam inhalation in your experience are yes thank you very simply Yes I have seen benefit I would. Say I have not always seen a dramatic improvement but I've never seen any harm and so I tend to people want to use it I intend to encourage it Ok Dr Nelson how is your experience there and your i.r.b. are you planning to utilize steam and and your studies Well my personal experience in the shower every morning as it builds great. Oh I would encourage steam inhalation in the shower no in the eye or be setting we're not going to be having people inhale steam I'd strongly urge people not to go and hailing other things there's a lot of crazy things out there that people are think just and you inhale thank you remember the mucus whining is your protection from this virus you don't want to try it out to crack it irritated don't inhale noxious substance but it seems great thank you so much Dr Nelson Dr Natalie your experience and some of the practical Ted but there it we Maurice far is inhalation theme and any other last closing thought it like to make Yeah hey of course there's my Sanaz and there's dry saunas and actually a very some comparison trials done some years ago that dare show a benefit of the more used or stand them away shit so yes I think it would have been thank you when doctors say no you have the final closing remarks for our program for today yes steam is useful there are some issues some kind of you know it's associated with with people who have broken specific disease like. Because some people who actually do sympathy than is my think if that's so you have to be careful about the use of steam density Additionally some people don't realize that steam is actually hot water and so will the me. If these a little bit too close to the source of the steam and get burnt so that's another downside of steam and some would say well then why not use net new ones that will never has. Produced small particles of water but it's not needed Ok so the difference between steam and Neville is. This is that one is hot which is the steam and the other is not which is and have you and so but seen is beneficial we used to use that in other countries in the United States earlier but even with croup and other kinds of. Brumfiel from the us well thank you so much thank you to all of our panelists every single one of you it's been an absolute joy to be on this symposium and again for our viewing audience you are not going to want to miss next Sunday again at 8 pm Eastern 5 pm Pacific we will be examining again the 1918 flu in comparison to cope with 19 specifically what the science regarding ultraviolet radiation and open space again until next time God bless you stay well stay healthy holistically physically mentally emotionally and spiritually we look forward to seeing you again God bless and have a good evening thank you.

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