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Logo of InVerse, 3rd Quarter 2020: Foundations of Discipleship

01-Instruments of Discipleship

Justin Kim Sebastien Braxton Sikhu Daco Callie Williams

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The significance of the last words of Jesus.

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Recorded

  • June 29, 2020
    9:00 AM

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Before Jesus ascended up to heaven there were these last words of Jesus what were they and what did he intend well find out on this episode of In verse. Coming to you from Silver Spring Maryland welcome to. The Bible based conversation on my principal contemporary issue and thought provoking. Now here's your host just until within. A friends were so excited that your decided to join us here at in verse and as you see our environment is a little bit different as it may be in your case as well my friends and I are all over the world and we are now through this new medium next couple upcoming weeks are going to be studying the topic of discipleship So I want to welcome you and if you don't have it already we want to have your inverse Bible study guides which you can get online in 1st Bible dot org Once again that's in verse Bible dot org this point when asked that the 3 of my friends be invited and we're going to get into our discussion would have ordered prayer Hey guys good to see you later and Aloha Ok and safe and. We're going to go to Matthew chapter 28 Matthew 28 but before we rescript ask can you progress. Pray loving father would love to thank you for the opportunity that we have to doubt the way we pray that you give us an understanding that the Holy Spirit of the out teacher and at the end of this would know that Yes time will you come to know the mind of Christ even better make us might have witnesses but you so that others can learn about Jesus as well any. Human emotion that's one go to the Gospel of Matthew and go towards all the way at the end to the chapter $28.00 and Sebastian if you can read from verse 16 to the end of the gospel. Absolutely Matthew chapter 28 beginning in verse 16 the Bible says then the 11 disciples went away into Galilee to the mountain which Jesus had appointed for them when they saw him they worshiped him but some doubted Him Jesus came and spoke to them saying All authority has been given to me in heaven and on Earth goes therefore and make disciples of all the nations baptizing them in the name of the father you know the Son and of the Holy Spirit teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you and lo I am with you always even to the end of the age and that great thanks about Sion we are in this topic of discipleship and I know how you go when I when I will when I think of discipleship I think of sandals I don't know why but I just imagine send all seculars like yeah like Ok age and then sand and then just that's not weird at all in a line it's not weird at all I want to ask Cally like when you don't hear of discipleship like what what there are some negative connotations in a composite constitution but what immediately comes to your your mind. Well I do need to say I now feel pressure to come up with the weird. I don't how it is. When I think of discipleship I think mainly of 2 things one is following someone so I think about you know the times that Jesus called his disciples and when he was calling them he said you follow me and even in like a bad way if you call someone likely you're disciple of so and so it means you like copy them or you follow them to I mean a bad degree and then another part discipleship it's probably just because I spent so much time being a teacher is like just the teaching part of sharing knowledge and sharing ways so like you're copying and then also just through what they say. You know there's a lot of a lot of rhetoric out there about the Siple ship and it's in many ways kind of like this pop word that a lot of people say at least in church circles or religious circles and Sebastian what what is discipleship when and why I think what's your take on that. Well when I when I think about discipleship I think about an experience of taking a person's life right and as you observe that life as you listen to the things that they teach the way they speak and how they live how they make choices how they relate to various people in society you're actually kind of taking in who that person is and it's almost like you know when you see someone that really inspires you or amazes you you kind of think to yourself Man I wish I could get into that person's head and to me discipleship is the method of doing that simply by proximity by Access and by living with that person. And that's what Jesus has talked about and like I said in my opener this is a really profound passage in and Matthew 28 And Jesus talks about you know replicating this this discipleship thing so let's have a look at his verse a little bit more deeper and for the rest of you guys I mean let's let's actually get to the text here versus 16 he has his 11 of his disciples there and then he gives what many many Christians call the Great Commission and what's going on in this passage. So Jesus's he died he rose again and he got up and decided to Yes amen and now he's about to ascend to heaven they have spent some time with him up to his resurrection he's been teaching them one things learning more from him but now he's popped into the heaven and he's on his final words to His disciples waits 1st assures them that what he's about to say to them is based on authority that he has and the instructions that he's giving to them are authoritative and they carry authority as in they will be able to accomplish these things I could say it's a commandment and a promise because he has all of the to say these things and then he tell them to go and make disciples so it's beautiful in verse 16 it starts with he had the 11 disciples with him they go up to the mountain and then he says in verse 1000 Go therefore and make disciples it's kind of like you have been my disciples now what you have experienced with me I want you to go and part to somebody else make more disciples like I have been the cycling you. Know and love in lot of Christian circles like and I guess and I don't know when you kind of like look at church and religion and spirituality sometimes it's just kind of like oh you read your Bibles you pray and just be a good person and you have that level of spirituality but then there's this other side that's all talks about you know evangelism and discipleship and these are kind of like program words they don't seem that spiritual. Help help us reconcile these 2 I mean Jesus clearly here is talking about some kind of process here and it's it's it's I mean I know yes I understand the tension there sometimes they kind of are incompatible. I mean because we're still talking about perceptions and the way that people view things yes you mentioned that the extremes where you know this kind of the spirituality and I'm a hermit and I live by myself and I do my special thing and then then there's other side of town like you know go out there and do evangelism in my experience I've found that both of these dolls espouse disciples are actually that on the one side it's me and Jesus you know as long as I'm a Christian like in my heart you know and I don't have to say anything to anybody go to see my life and then my somehow Americal happening to become a Christian as well and on the other hand that I'm going to you know do evangelism and typically the way that I've seen it evangelism looks like telling them stuff you know imparting information to get more information and based on their head knowledge they're going to make a decision to transform their lives like they're going to just you know maybe a different person because I imparted information to them and bone methods actually do not embrace what disciple So is as useless taught it or as Jesus lived it because it's actually a combination of bowls and it's more a relational thing an experiential thing that is at knowledge nor then it is you know just you know personal you know and south that kind of experience there's a relational component to the disciple so that I think Bowles explains don't espouse just those 2 streams of meal to us in some way then we may be on those extremes and have to learn to embrace both of them Subash Yes well I was just going to build off point when you notice in the text in verse 16 the Bible says that these people were there to true worship Jesus but it also says that some doubted him so they were his disciples but they still are questions they did not have complete intellectual clarity on all things with Christ but they were still able and willing to worship him to follow him. And yet God still believed that they were the agents to espouse this commission of discipleship So Jesus is commissioning people who have doubts and questions to go make decide so it lets me know that if I pull ship is actually a part of your relationship with Jesus and then this is a part of strengthening that relationship and also dealing with some of those doubts and questions but those 2 things dealing with the information transmission as well as the relational spiritual reflective component to me those things don't have to be perfectly where we think they should be in order to experience discipleship in the way the Christ is talking about in these things what's actually at the Texel a bit more deeper or here let's go to verse 18 and it talks about the authority that seek a mentioned appreciate that I mean this authority is this is very very important this isn't a sign thing this isn't something that's that's marginal or are per for all and what does he say here in verse $1028.00 there's a series of verbs mentioned here and I think which which firm is the one that many many of us are familiar with are we think of only think of the great commission what automatically comes to mind. Oh baptising go Oh Ok we got baptized we go. They go oh yeah I was I thought you know you are the mambo I vote for any place that was an effort to get near to. The going and the what so that the what the other verbs there are baptizing Sebastian likes and then there's also the teaching these are these are verbs and in the end the Greek the original Greek these are all part of suppose it's like as you are going and as you are making disciples as you are teaching and the main verb the main verb of which we don't ironically have in English is to make disciples or the other word could be this like blah is the disciple of this I believe in Cali and I think the cycling. Yeah but that's a participant as you know as a teacher that you should Op That's your job that's your story 3 part of the balls kind of support the main verb that's as a command as a. As a command Yeah so. I mean which of these 3 do you do we do the most do we do as Christians on an individual basis I mean talk about the tension between the 3 and the one verbs hear what's going on you. Find out. What Italian. Someone who is like a real is in call we interrupt each other. I think for every. Teaching comes the easiest probably because all the time spent teaching but I also think you know going back to what Seeker was saying like transfer information and some as we think that is teaching but it's not actual teaching is making sure someone understands something someone can apply it someone has all the edge cases of their own experience ironed out but sometimes here we think well I preached it like a 1000 people now. Heard it so they got it but the teaching that comes part of the discipleship requires more of a relationship with the person you're teaching and actually adapted to that person because yeah and teaching you know if I'm going to teach 10 different students how to use a semi-colon in a sentence I'm going to have to teach it several different ways because each of them have a ton of different weight even as the 6 years. Ok special I was going to say one of the tensions I see between going and disciple ing is the fact that the concept of going creates an experience where we believe that it's all about activity that we're in motion but we're not in front of progressing a person spiritually along the way so some people I went where I told you the information seeker reference Well I'm the one and explain the Sabbath to you I explain how you are forgiven for your sins it's up to you whether you accept it or not and there's no care there's no compassion there's no ministering to the needs we're just going and we're just trying to maintain business and activity. All right Ok we have to take a break here so we come back we're going to look at how this connects into human relationships discipleship and relationship together. Has impressed been a blessing to you Do you have questions comments or feedback you'd like to leave us or find us on social media by searching an interest Bible on Facebook Twitter Instagram for you to while there join us like us comes up next the handle again is in 1st Bible Belt states with the now back to the discussion with. A welcome back friends we are in the midst of talking about the Great Commission the last words of Jesus before he ascended I want to ask my team here what is the what's the basic fundamental. What is Jesus working with he's not working with a theory here he's not working with some kind of program or books or some kind of ideology what is he really getting at what's Jesus's order his instruments if you will. Why I think just in his I'm sure Mintz are people right Jesus is talking about the fact that at the very heart of the Great Commission is this idea of relationships and connecting with people for the purposes of teaching and baptising and helping them to observe all the things that Jesus has passed on to you so they're sort of like a pipeline in effect right where you're receiving from Christ there's your spirituality and then you're passing on to someone that you have this relationship with which is the evangelistic element of discipleship but that composite experience is what Jesus is saying isn't couched in a relationship with another individual sessions so beautifully put and I think this is what makes Jesus a so wonderful and the magic kind of touch point between human beings and Jesus as He is all about human interaction human human human human interaction human relationships yes I want to know what way who is can can discipleship not be about people and how has this I have been just kind of a on relational topic I just to kind of nuance what the vessel is saying and yes. He didn't mention the word I think it's fine to mention the word our connection with God with divinity is actually relational as well and there's a way that that can be not relational where it becomes you know informational you know like to be checking off a list you know I did my devotions and I did this and it's it's not detract from God's intention to have a relationship with us we want God to be able to fill in the boxes the way that we perceive them to be God means to be x. y. z. and we don't allow him to be a being that we relate to the communication with God and experiences and likewise Now in terms of our relationship with people it becomes. It's not like checking off boxes you know it's it's it takes time it takes effort you know it takes I make mistakes you make mistakes we forgive one another but relationships are way messy is that no we didn't do something perfect. And both ways like when it comes to our relationship with God It's messy you know because we make mistakes and then we're still no illusions of what other people really messy for the whole discipleship thing is a big mess and needing a disciple of Jesus and then me trying to read other people's diseases as well and I think that's why we're afraid of discipleship in terms of actually doing it because it's it's hard to embrace the mess. I want things to be clean and clear cut I don't want to to to be you know struggling with allowing someone into my life and that I'm not perfect you know yet I'm writing them about how the perfect like that stuff is hard and so discipleship it's hard because of how messy relationships are just by the nature. Yeah you know true you know going back to something I think it was you said earlier Justin about how we ourselves are disciples and sometimes we think you know we have to get to level 10 of discipleship and then we can disciple other people but even in the process of ourselves being discipled by people we can start disciple and so we don't have to get to level 10 or 12 or whatever that level is I can think of very specific times when I was giving Bible studies to someone and actually they asked me a question actually to Sebastian I would like to ask those questions of. What to say to the president. So that the process even of Sebastian you know t.-t. me as I'm teaching someone else and even you know going back to what seeker said to you is it so important to when we're disciple in someone not just to show them light not just to show them the way but also to be vulnerable with their own experiences because just head knowledge isn't the best way to teach but even so when I experience as a being like you know I know what it's like to start with devotions and know what it's like to start with intuitions I know what it's like to start with my family I think that message from a from this morning who was saying you know I just wished I was reading the Bible actually means I'm a bad person you never stop reading the Bible. I actually do stop reading the Bible and even like a discouragement thing especially go away. So and it sounds like it sounds like it could be discouraging right you don't want to share that you are to be the that but like sharing that struggle is actually an encouragement and so being vulnerable with people that we're trying to disciple and and trying to reconcile with Christ that can be with the most beautiful things we can share with. If there's a certain thing to what working you use I don't want to use the word magical but that is the word that comes to mind with. Human experience in some ways it's very it's very inefficient you know it just isn't. Reed this is done right but there is a certain dynamic that takes place as a connection and what I guess the thought that came to mind as Kelly was speaking was that the Siple ship is not a social thing it's not a extroverted thing that's what I used to think that all these extroverts aren't they'd like people they like relationship can lead the way they have it can be the way and the rest of us are interviewer would just help out on the side and we have people. Like that what can you say to some people like that let's go to our resident extrovert a bastion. That is actually better dressed than educated or probably selfish over everybody. So. You know one of the things that I think I thought about as you're giving me this question is the fact that coming close to somebody the way that Cally and Seeker were just describing is uncomfortable in the fact that you're you're trying to be intentional in building a relationship with a complete stranger and then start sharing these 2 sort of personal stories and personal side of yourself and so I think your point is so critical that we recognize how intact discipleship is supposed to be intentional but it is not supposed to be based upon my personal preferences Well I like Justin someone tried to cycle Justin Well you know I don't get along with Siku so she and I can't have a discipleship relationship and I think that we can't choose people based upon who we prefer or who we like or because my personality is more introverted even though Justin is in denial than him to know when we choose Sebastian. Well I think the 1st thing is the Bible talks about your neighbor right love your neighbor as yourself and that word in Greek that Proxima needs within your same physical proximity so me as a father as a husband I need to the cycle my children they're near to me but in my community and a lot of times you know one preacher say everybody wants to be a missionary where they're not so I'm going to go 2 weeks over to another country I'm going to participate in a mentalistic campaign for 4 weeks and then I'm back to my regularly scheduled program rather than discipleship needs to be where you are and the people around you that's where you need to go fishing for those people that Christ has touched their hearts to prepare them for the discipleship he wants you to engage in. And I thought I love that point about we always wanting to do on the other side where the grass seems greener and we have we have these romantic ideas about I want to do it over there and when I when it's over there then I'll do it well but here I can't do it Kelly you're right I just want to speak to that because I've I've really experienced that where you know rather if you go to a foreign country and do mission trips and I think you know and we'll just go along with that we may go at the ministry it's closest to us and I think even harder than our neighbors is our family members because Emirates ministered to your family members and you'd be faithful all the time like this. And so it's easier to go forward to go to a foreign country and be holy for 2 weeks that might be like Yeah man I'm always like this praise God that we come home or just back in our regular selves and so I think that kind of discipleship is even more important not only for them but it's more important for us because that makes the discipleship experience authentic because not only we put on for 2 weeks but it's something we live in the here and now wherever we are that's right it's an authenticity that we're there were yearning for that we want to see in others and they also want to pass down in others and that is something that's that's baked into Christian discipleship I want to ask you Can you guys are some experiences of some good good mentorship and good discipleship that you receive from top down I don't mean top down like in a corporate sense but from someone else to do and then or maybe you've had a good experience where you also passed down to someone else you disciple someone else and the fruit about that has been so so rewarding me personal experiences. Go and see. I would like to share maybe not a means not an awesome experience I attempt to vote. But then maybe you should. Remember I was I was working on a university campus trying to reach out to students. And. It was there was this one student who. I was you know trying to study the Bible with and cetera and she knew where lived and she would just come by my apartment and it was. Challenging because some days I am not an extrovert like Sebastian is right so I'm not. I'm sure Brando up like were brought up at my house. And then I gave her a spare key because. In case you haven't needed something and so soon I'll get home sometimes I'm shopping and she was in my apartment cook and or and it was who challenges me at a whole new level. Because now especially in those introverted moments where I was trying to be away from the world and as a single person like it was relatively easy to do that you know like I go to my partner and I was my door and it's just me but now there was this person who would randomly show up and I have to be a Christian even in those moments you know. I remember praying about it one time and I was like Lord I can't do this I need to take my cue back I need to have a talking to with this girl and be like you know like you need to stop coming around. But as all I know about it. And it was actually about discipleship that. Allowing allowing her into my life and even allowing her to see that struggle you know that struggle of you know this is a moment where I don't you like talking to somebody about how do I deal with you know how do I deal with myself in those times in terms of like how do I talk to God about it and how do I you know get through those situations it was a new level of honorability that I had never had to experience you know as a Christian with somebody else. And we developed such a strong friendship were like we close friends up til now like not just you just didn't end up as just a Bible study contact but we actually became friends you know and I can say I genuinely love her you know and would not meet other because you know we. Experience a certain level of openness and because I was willing to open myself up to her she was willing to open herself up to me beyond just questions about the Bible you know and that's something that we can have possibly that was a good experience for me thanks Ico we're running out of time so we just thank you so much for joining us and your beautiful illustration obvious cycle Ship One encourage you to watch more episodes of inverse at Hope t.v. dot org slash in verse and we want to see you next week here on in verse you've been listening to in verse a Bible based compensation Helen strong and Jonathan long and Sebastian Braxton and Seeker dogs and their hearts to Justin are in residence brought to you by the whole talent television that changes along with that and more inspiring than ever so many things that interest all to the Argentinosaurus also thank him very silent until next time this is enforced.

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