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Logo of Talking Points, 1st Quarter 2021: Isaiah

12 The Desire of Nations

Mark Howard Kameron DeVasher
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  • March 10, 2021
    1:15 PM
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How does a family get together how does it interact and what are to relationships that make a family of family on this up a sewed up in person. Coming to you from Silver Spring Maryland welcome to in the Bible based compensation principles contemporary issues. Focus. Now here's your host just in time with the end. We are in episode 13 entitled We are family in this 13 week arc on the book of Romans Can you believe it for 12 weeks we've been studying the book of Romans and you are late to the party but you can still participate if you go to any verse Bible dot org You can download our inverse Bible study guides and study along with the chapter by chapter in the book of Romans Romans is one of the Apostle Paul his greatest books in the New Testament talks about the science of salvation and we're so happy that you decided to join us in our last episode of the season here in the studio with Sebastian Cali myself Justin Kim and. I think you're just right. And so happy that you guys are here and it's been a great. 3 months that we've been studying this yes and we are in the last 2 chapters over Romans and we only have one verse and we're going to be bouncing around a lot in $15.16 but in these last 2 chapters here Paul is kind of like signed in off his e-mail long as. You know but he signed it off and usually I know how do you guys sign off your emails you guys do the whole sincerely thing best best Ok but who is best I just like that it. Was just like the special is best and it's like best. How do you know if your blessings blessings lead to my Christian friends and they're Christian that's what I do and Sebastian. I do regards regards r. and in various. Regards our guards better than be best Ok I don't give me. Very good very good especially when you pray for us and we'll jump into scripture Yes. Father in heaven it is been the rich fruitful experience having been in the in your word specifically in the book of Romans. Lord we cannot study and understand these things enough indeed we need these truths the rest of our lives and until the Lord comes in for everything turned out he will continue to reflect on these things but now board in this final episode we pray that the sweet sweet spirit of Jesus may rest upon us in the Goddess into all truth justice Jesus promised as our prayer in Christ's name Amen Amen Amen so we have covered a lot of parts. Of highlights that you remember from the Book of Romans maybe someone who may be listening for the 1st time you like oh did you cover that and by the way you can all go to hope t.v. orgy slash and verse and you can catch up on this quarter but also other topics that we've discussed in the past so what do you remember I remember a lot and. I think you know the climax probably of the study was Romans chapter 8 and you know it culminates in talk about the love of God. But some other things that I think were super awesome in the book of Romans were talking and I guess defining those. The big theological terms like justification and sent you know righteousness just kind of going into the nitty gritty of what does that actually mean and yes so that was that was a highlight for me like making it really practical What does it mean to die you know die in Christ and and the whole marriage. The marriage. So I think. Kind of coming to understand the big theological terms that we use sometimes and delving into what do they actually mean you know and then you know in the last few chapters just really talking about the practical application of how does this work out in your life and then how do you see evidence of an experience which evidence of the experience with the one who has redeemed you you know what does that actually look like in your life and in the way that you relate to your fellow church members the way that relate to government even the way you relate to people you disagree with it's just been I guess the super rich so this is not an internal discussion within Fiala g within Christianity but it is the core discussion which emanates outward impacts as you said family government and relationships and all these things out there I love it that Romans is a really predominant like glasses that we put on now and from the glasses of Romans because we can now read the rest of the New Testament read the Old Testament even read the book of Revelation where the Gospel that will last and gospels mention in chapter 14 and then more we read the Bible through these lenses these lenses get more due to be like the New Testament and then we put those lenses on the becomes this for ever cyclical glasses that refines the way we read scripture but Romans really takes a big big portion of that let's go through an actual verse go Chapter 15 chapter 15 Kelly let's just read one verse 3 in verse 13 and even though the both chapters he signed off this one shot one the one verse really kind of is benediction to the Romans when he does sign off now May the God of hope still you with all joy and peace and believing that you may abound and hope by the power of the Holy Spirit and let's let's unpack that a little bit how does this connect with everyone everything that we have read thus far why does he end with this where. And I want to limit conversation to that verse but really throughout 15 and 16 he goes into this kind of a long goodbye to 100 saying goodbye multiple times but he does give the benediction there what is the connection there Kelly Well one part is that he's talking he's talking about hope here so may the God of Hopefully with all joy and peace in believing that you may abound and hope by the power of the Holy Spirit and you know elsewhere he talks about you don't hope for something you already have and some of the realities that he has described that he has talked about the lofty theologies they're not quite experienced in a tangible way yet and so he wants to continue to be filled with hope of all the things all the amazing things God has promised that are to come and by by being filled by knowing those things and by having that hope you are filled with that joy and that peace in believing So with that faith and he wants I just love yeah bound and fill he just like not I don't want you to have this mediocre or the small like you're some Jesus piece it's not a small experience I want you to be filled with hope abounding and all these blessings that God desires to pour into your life by the power of the whole the law language of maximum Yeah more and more of that. If we can rewind there in verse 8 it says there no I say that Jesus Christ has become a servant to the circumcision for the truth of God to confirm the promise promises made to the fathers so it says they're like hey I commend you Jesus Jesus is going to give you the promises given to all of our fathers and in verse 910-1112 are all these promises from the Old Testament and then his conclusion there is verse 13 in now the same God of the forefathers till you just as we have this history of god blessing the past and giving all these promises he's going to continue blessing you it's not it's beautiful it's like a like in the 10 of those in caps that you talk about 8 and then it's 13 and you have Jesus there. You know prominent who's become the 7th or the 2nd position and then in verse 13 you have the God of hope and then you have the Holy Spirit and of the Godhead is that you know all in this experience that we have of salvation I like that he brings that out. When you when you look back earlier in the chapter you see that that prayer is really a kind of final question though of you know what he's trying to address earlier in the chapter when he's dealing with the Bible and what he was trying to bring up so if you look at verse 4 he says for whatever things were written before were written for our learning that we through the patience and comfort of the scriptures might have to hold So he's he's clearly dealing with this idea of I these things in the Bible that we reference that we've been studying that we've been mentioning what the Scripture say and Abraham believed God and he counted it for righteousness and this is what David wrote in Psalms he saying all of these things were written so that we might have hope in this is why my prayer for you is to realize that this hope is for everyone inside of Rome at this church and this is exactly why the Bible is written This is why I'm writing to you this is my prayer for you even afterwards so it makes sense that he's lending his letter on this very level to say this is what it was always about and to why God inspired any prophet along the way it's almost as if he doesn't want to and the message is the one and one thing that one thing and it's like a keep looking forward he sent his friend the momentum is to continue going forward and that's I see this hope rope is the is the future reality experience now and then the expectation for that to be to becoming Yes and there's a lot of momentum in these last final chapters anything else that pops out to you in these when you see how someone ends a letter is indicative of their heart right see a lot of heart language here as well as well as the promises and you know. Something. Else kind of focus on and verse 18 that we can find. Throughout here for I would not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ has not accomplished through me and word indeed to make the Gentiles obedient because the previous few verses he's talking about all the things God has done through him and I just love that even when Paul is talking about the things that he's accomplished he's just like I want to make it crystal clear I'm talking about Christ accomplished not me just so we're clear but he doesn't because that's like a that's a very disclaimer way like you're talking all these lofty things like of other words used at that but he's like I would even talk about the things that I have accomplished apart from Christ and so even though it's just it's so empowering I just Paul to me if I what I mean by God's grace if he is like this really make voice I'm the rock of used as in my head he's just such a powerful preacher or you know all the time and so I just I love that he can't help but tell the things that God has done through him but he sees it as as much of a gift as the things that God has done to him through him to him he's like all that are gifts it's amazing either way interesting that Paul does have a strong voice only. I think it's in 2nd Corinthians Yeah they do criticize him and they say like look who are you dude. You have strong letters you preach pretty. Well you want to word a lot of the. Past almost kind of defenders apostleship like Yeah man oh jesus taught me an apostle who I know I'm talking about and then you guys were converted because of me like are you so that's a very interesting as a software you know. That. When you look in chapter 16 and in verse 221522 we see that he says For this reason I also have been much hindered from coming to you but now no longer having a place in these parts and have. In the great desire these many years to come to you whenever I journeyed to Spain I shall come to you for I hope to see you on my journey and to be helped on my way there by you if 1st I mean enjoy your company for a while so here we have another whole component right that Paul is ending his letter constantly on the Scriptures were written to give you hope my prayer for you is that you guys have hope and now he's like and I'm hoping that one day will come to speed I can come by and. Hang out and so it's a really interesting. Way to show the human this poll in the fact that he sort of so much about it he's written this letter this I mean obviously this thing is historically great in terms of what God was able to pen through him and yet at the end of it as he's leaving them he's not allowing us to leave this letter feeling this was just a theological try to write this all that intellectual depth was really grounded in the heart of a person who loved the people he never even physically met you haven't even come to you and so this is a this departure component is saying that I'm praying all these things in the scriptures are for your hope but also on my own personal and the same time you see in chapter 16 Paul says greetings to each one by name almost as if he's receiving a Emmy Award and has to say goodbye to everyone and mentions him by name so we'll cover it when we come back after the break. Has been a blessing to you Do you have questions comments and feedback you'd like to leave us find us on social media by searching. On Facebook Twitter Instagram or You Tube while do you join us like this comes up a handle again in 1st Bible. Now back to the discussion. Hey welcome back everyone we are in the last 2 chapters of Romans it's very interesting that Paul was trying to get to Spain and you see in the Old Testament that John. No it was trying to get to Tarshish which is in Spain and I don't know why but these guys can't get to Spain they want to get on with Spain we love Spain versus in Spain let's go to Chapter 16 you know after 16 and a mention on the other side of the break that he's going to greet each one by name his own making and we're not going to read the whole passage but. One it is a historical document is a real email address to he's mentioning each one by name without reading each one but kind of glancing over what is this kind of what can we glean out of this this is as boring as it seemingly may be this is still the Word of God and it has been preserved for our edification why it had to memorize these verses Kelly you know something that strikes me as just his the relationships he has with all these people yes you felt like they had everyone love Paul Yeah I think he's like most have this person and you almost not nicknames like my beloved in the Lord who also was here and who did this with me like he has tag lives to everyone us which denotes the relationship and you know Paul is much more famous now that he was then for sure but Paul Slaughter reputation at this time like Paul was a big deal and so to me I love that even though he was someone who traveled and preached in Platte to churches he had relationships with lots of people and they were important enough to him that he was going to put this in his in his letter and so I also just love to that it shows that he has these relationships that probably lead to discipleship right which I think we're going to go talk about that that is the key of true discipleship So Paul is like I'm going to preach and then you guys do the rest I'll be here but like he preaches but he had vast and he has friendships and relationships and he does the fancy or kind of the I'm in front of you work I'm going to preach or write these letters but he also does the day to day of investing in relationship and yeah and just on that investing in relationships where he pointed out that. Paul hadn't yet been to Rome but here he is writing greetings to the saints in Rome. That tells you that at some point he intersected with these people because they're like you're saying there's a tagline to do you know to there's something to that relationship but he hadn't actually been to Rome and we will Yeah this speaks to me because I have a hard time keeping in touch with people you know like you and your paths crossed at a certain point in time and kind of Ok that was that time you know a lot moving on with life you know I'm in a different phase you know like these other people who are trying to take a very. Tall Paul apparently at some point their paths crossed and here is evidence of it in verse 2 in chapter 16. Well 1st one he says I could talk to 16 from verse one I commend to you Phoebe our sister who is a servant of the church in 2000 in Korea Korea can clear the air that place that you may receive her in the Lord in a manner worthy of the saints to a sister with whatever business that she has thought Paul is now recommending that they receive somebody else who is now going into their midst so he has had an experience with v.b. she is now going to Rome and he's like hey she's coming your direction I want you guys to give her the fellowship that I know you guys are capable of help her out in the business affairs that she has so Paul Paul is not about he doesn't compartmentalize his life by time periods. He is his relationships he recognizes that in each relationship this kind of a trust you know and he follows through with that even you know how many years later they've moved to a different player and he's writing a letter and he's remembering the people that he has intersected with interfaced with or heard about and that kind of thing so just that's really intense for me to think about you know and he's just telling all these people. You know last time there were people here's a networker sometimes retired really for selfish purposes to get our post to be you know to get more exposure but he. Tagging these people for exposure and get the ultimate exposure to the whole world what he's doing this because of sincerity what I see is sincerity or excellence in these chapters and to that point Paul constantly calls each one his brother my countrymen our sister you know being the person who wasn't raised in the church you understand that you're going to lose a lot of relationships when you decide to follow Jesus and there's a lot of isolation there's a lot of separation there's a lot of Yeah I can roll with you on this and now something that has been so transformative and defining to who you are as a person you no longer connect with these people on and so to me Paul's You know ending here is a way to say number one yeah we want to go preach the gospel and you know not be ashamed and all of that but there's also a place to make sure we remember the family of God and that Paul is not going to go say are you here's the gospel for those of your confused clarified all the issues have a good one regards the Apostle right. And he's he's coming in there and he say yeah yeah I hit all these things but a lot of these people he's listening probably already believe and understand the things that Paul is writing about but he's taking the time to acknowledge them as this is a family and I understand that personally because I've learned over the years of my Christian experience that there are people in the church that I'm closer to than my old blood relatives or my own friends from childhood simply because of the relationship that you have with them in Christ and that's hard for people who are not in the church to understand like how could you trust is one more than me like I'm your sister or you know we grew up since elementary school is like yeah but there's a different Bond here and I think that's what Paul is is trying to not trying to but I feel like he does it unknowingly illustrate what that reflective of. The gospel and the unity that it brings and. Now there's a lot of warmth and a lot of being inclusive it t. and you brother and sister in the fellowship. Is going on verse 17 Chapter 16 or 17 right kind of goes on the other side. It's a little bit of a warning but the 2 are complimentary principles of the I mean it seems like it on the surface for 17 now I urge your brother a note to those who cause divisions and offenses contrary to the doctrine which you have learned end of. Interesting verse 18 for those who are such do not serve our Lord Jesus Christ but their own bed and smooth words and flattering speech deceive the hearts of the simple for your obedience has become known to all therefore I am glad on your behalf but I want you to be wise in what is good and simple concerning evil and the God of peace will crush seats in under your feet shortly the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you have been. Kind of interesting and there's a lot of benediction after benediction and you talk about that but it's very interesting that the principle of inclusive it t. must also jive well with the principle of exclusivity 100 percent sometimes we try to be so inclusive of everyone that we end up just breaking up the fabric of our of the Fellowship in the friendship and the family all together there must be demarcation lines for real inclusive it because at the end of the day to have real community the people in the community have to be committed to the community yes and to want the community so you don't think community you can't get community gated community you can't get community just by being in the vicinity of someone like why I'm physically here and so therefore I'm a part of this community that that's not how it works and so Paul can see and and even our sincerity people who are trying to bring that person. Then and he's not saying if anyone thinks differently than you could cover that earlier he's not saying if anyone sees something or has a still struggle with their faith like if this person straight up causes divisions like that that's what they do all just avoid them and so there is there is a point where it is actually as you said it is damaging to the fabric of the community itself to try to force that person and your community because there are there clearly showing by the way they are actually there talking or whatever that they don't actually want to be a part of. And this is this is really intentional that Paul is saying he's urging the people he just greeted his I saw him urging you to note and to avoid So he still won't pay attention to what God has given to you in this unity in this bond in the Gospel that I just preached for the past several chapters note that and avoid that because in in a lot of times when we think about. The relationships of today setting boundaries is very difficult for a lot of people they feel like setting a boundary is being rude they feel like setting a boundary is all I'm being selfish or I am responsible for someone else's happiness well because secret is going to feel this way if I say this or if I say no then she's going to think this when you know my dad used to always tell me that if people don't like you for who you are at least it's you they don't like not someone you're pretending to be because everyone isn't going to like you and that's a hard truth and reality for people to accept everyone is not going to like you not because of something wrong with you it's just it's just not working about it and that's Ok but at least it's me right because when it's when you're pretending to be someone and you're just faking it and they don't like you then you're like well you don't really know me if you really got to know me then we would get along and so to me the sincerity behind what Paul is saying what you have is so precious to not ruin it do not allow someone to corrupt. And to destroy you and that's why Ventura he goes to the reference in verse 20 the God of peace will crush Satan under your feet shortly so the God of peace he's going to handle this right he's going to get rid of the devil and his attempts to bring this sort of disunity I like verse 18 for those who are are such do not serve our Lord Jesus Christ so there are within the family of Jesus there are some who may have different understandings and disputes and that's Ok let's deal with that but they're specifically some people who do not serve the Lord Jesus parin they're there to infiltrate and to divide and to cause all these problems and we need to have a keen eye out for these kind of people Any other comments you can see from chapters 15 and 16 this is. This I mean this is not different but 1000 the end of a 1000 me says the wise in what is good and simple concern he will. Take that perfect. That struck me in terms of like being simple concerning what is evil like you know it reminds me of Eve which was standing next to that tree and she is trying to have a conversation with the talking serpent you know like in that situation be simple concerning what is evil God said don't be there you should be even talking to us Oh but you know but like she was trying to be wise right I am going to engage in this conversation and cetera but when it comes to something that is evil that is wrong he just says just avoid it you know like it's Ok to be simple some other solution avoid It's very difficult to be simple yet discerning at the same time simple in heart but discerning in I it's it's a Jesus balance that's very difficult. With the same part for me I love I love knowing things and I love knowing all about something and so there's kind of a hard injunction for me it's like but I I don't I do evil actually know about it like there but like I don't think that way that explicit away but this is how sometimes I interact and why. The best way to discern is to be obsessed with and to see the truth clearly so you don't have to understand just focus on Jesus and all other things will become clear in his presence Amen Amen one the spirit of Chapter 16 of Romans I want to say thank you to each one of you and if you had enough time I'd mention each of you by name but I will not do so I also want to thank each of my panelists my friends Sebastian Cali and Siku and also Jonathan who's not on this episode for their time and for their families who have taken the sacrificial hits for this t.v. program also want to shout outs to Israel who has been on this sabbatical hiatus for for this season I want to say thank you to him when I think you to say thank you to all the cameramen especially math and adult Oh and a whole family of cameraman out there Lucy Hector Roscoe and. The way. Al and in the spirit of Romans I know I forgot somebody thank you so much May the God of hope bless us all see you next week you've been listening to a Bible based cost the same caliber as well Dr Jonathan Walter Sebastian Baxter. Your host. In this is brought to you by the time television that changes. But this points by episode is it in verse to you or I. Find this on social media. In the 1st 5 until next time this isn't.


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