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  • May 3, 2021
    9:00 AM

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There is one character in the Bible who is the only one his fist scribe to have experienced the Old Covenant and the New Covenant who is it let's talk about it on this absurd oven verse. Coming to you from Silver Spring man welcome to. The Bible based compensation on my principle babyish stockbroking. If you just intent within. Welcome to in verse we are in this 6th episode on the topic of covenants So if you're out there and you are wondering how can I get to know more about this covenants topic in Scripture you want to go to inverse Bible Dorji and you can catch up on past episodes past less lessons and can study along with us I want to just warn you this is a very very deep topic and it is a topic that has a lot of blessings in store for all of us but it does require some rigor and and some fellowship with like minded people who can study the Bible with us so in the studio we have Sebastian Jonathan and c.q. Hello you guys Aloha and it's been a great journey we're about halfway through this topic and I don't know I had a lot of reservations about this topic in the beginning because it is it is not easy but the blessings indeed are have been very profound and I want to ask you before we do pray and before we get into reading what are some some blessings that as you reflect on the past 5 Lessons 5 episodes were things that pop out you immediately that you feel like real time every day application in common yeah to me is really the character of God shines in all of this seeing that he is committed in this covenant towards us even when we are on faithful every time he reiterate his covenant it's to show I'm still here I'm still with you I'm still for you you know how do you respond to this and that just really is possible to me very very cool sicko. That was the number one for me. Number 2 of a close number 2 is that what got us what's required of a Christian is the standard is just so high but seeing that the covenant that God wants to make with us is that he wants to do these things in us and just that promise of God working these things in our lives it's just really reassuring. I think for me is just Moses is gospel you know someone with 3 intervals really grappling with his his expressions and how you're like This is the gospel and it was there the whole time even before Jesus gave you know it was being preached now and always have you been very good very good we are in a systematic study so we want to encourage you go to pass the bill so sing go to hope t.v. or do slash and verse and you can catch up on other topics but also in this arc that we're in and the topic of the covenant for the blessing that I really have received is that within Bible religion within Bible Christianity within the Judeo Christian ethic there are there is one mode that's real and off and change spiritual Christianity and there's one that looks exactly like it but totally fake and yeah and then so in church that you have 0 Those are there's some real good people and there's people who think they're real but they're really fake and I mean that should be no shock to us right because the Bible has been preaching about that since Genesis one Genesis 3 starts there and then puts words. To this experience that many Christians have experience in a local church poorer for a long time so let's actually go to chapter 4 verse 21 and when to read and Sebastian if you can pray for us before we actually read Holy Scripture Yes let's pray. Father in heaven we've been blessed has the 2 with the exploration of these covenants and ultimately the everlasting covenant Lord the pics. That it gives us a who you war is too precious for us just to give up in you too fanciful interpretations so not as we turn to this particular passage in case study example in life in the eyes of our understanding help us to see you and your word and guide us as we explore in Galatians about these 2 aspects of the covenant or experiences is our prayer in Jesus' name. When Galatians chapter 4 verse 20 of us are from verse 21 and we just read it slowly together this is not an easy passage is very difficult but as I sent a top of the show that there is one character that the Bible describes of someone who has experienced both Auld and new and compares the 2 and who is this guy who has experienced these 2 covenants will see in verse 21. And if you read for us share for 21 says tell me you who desire to be under the law do you not hear the law for it is written that Abraham had 2 sons the one by a bondwoman the other by a free woman but he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh and he of the free woman through promise which things are symbolic for these are the 2 covenants the one from Mt Sinai which gives birth to bondage which is Hagar for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to Druce alone which is now and is in bondage with her children but the Jerusalem above is free which is the mother of us all for it is written rejoice all barren you who do not bear break forth and shout you who are not in labor for the desolate for the desolate has many more children than she who has a husband then we brethren as I said was our children of promise but as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit even so it is now Nevertheless what does the Scripture say Cathal the bondwoman and her son for the. Son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the sum of the free woman so then brethren we are not children of the bondwoman but off to free men then fast therefore chapter 5 or one in the Liberty by which a crisis made us free and do not be entangled again with the yoke of bondage Ok thank you for that and for those of you out there we want to really encourage you stick with it stick with it these are wonderful concepts and once you get them hopefully our conversation is making some these consular bit easier to digest but sometimes the scripture can be a lot of layers you're not intending to be complicated for complexities reasons but just because of all the richness of meaning can get a little confusing so let me ask you John to think of what you describe to this point our discussion on the old and the new covenant and there's there's truth there's different just different aspects of the 2 in sometimes it can kind of getting. So cold. So there we have to layers of 2 perspectives as we can look to the covenant Yes we can look at it historically meaning that in history history is divided by Jesus right before Christ and and after Christ and so before Christ or what you know would be considered the Old Testament time frame this can be called the Old Covenant in relation to Jesus because when Jesus came everything became so rich and beautiful but it did not negate what had been done before it was just a fresh expression of what has been revealed in the Old Covenant historically and then you know on the other side is the new covenant historically New Testament times and we are living it that's historically timeline but there is also a spiritual sense that you can look at experientially there is a way that the Bible describes an old covenant experience which is not to say that that's the experience that everyone in the Old Testament has known is to say that you relates to the Covenant in a wrong way in a legal listed way and the new covenant. Appearance is an experience where you related a covenant in a faith where you trust in God to do what he has promised that he would do so there's a historical way to look at it and a spiritual way to look at it and those 2 are can sometimes be confusing about I think this we're going to have today is going to clarify this what are the dangers of and thank you so wonderfully for painting that picture seeker what is the dangers if you mix the historical with the experience sure and a lot of times people do saying hey the new covenant is good and all carbon is bad and some way that's right and in some ways that's wrong right so how do we I mean you've got you've got Bible texts which speak about the covenant and sometimes a lot of times actually you'll have the Bible talking about the Commandments that God gave the law because the law is a is an essential portion of the Covenant him writing his law on our hearts and so in this conversation about covenants We'll have the law in there and if the perception is you know Old Covenant equals Old Testament equals. Old Commandments the law you know it was legal you know but I mean if we equate the covenants period and the old covenant with you know the law of God The 10 commandments then it's like well if the new covenant does away with that then we don't need the 10 commandments we don't need everything pretty much everything in the Old Testament is negated because Jesus obviously establishes a whole new law that is different from the Old Testament law in the 10 Commandments I mean that's one of the dangers you know that we that you get and then you really miss you we miss the the possibility like the goal that God had like really the point of what he was doing with the covenant was the whole point is I want to do this in you and whether whether we're saying the Old Covenant is the 10 Commandments or is Jesus' commandments. You can still have an. Old Covenant experience like the wrong experience with the covenant even looking at Jesus and Jesus says you know if somebody does you wrong if the love your enemies and you're sitting in your room I must love love love love love love that I'm going to make myself love and we miss what God has been trying to do all the way from the Old Testament in Mosul I mean the danger is we there are so many dangers but just just to point out those 2 on one side of the aisle Naturally we all have a Old Testament experience Old Covenant experience don't we yes we naturally see these rules are going off you got a chart you got to keep it right and we see this in other other religions out there this is the motif that they have right Christianity actually is presenting something new let's go to the relations passage here and let's take it one verse of it slowly at a time the other verse $21.00 chapter 4 verse $21.00 Paul's writing says Tell me do you do you who desire to be under the law do you not hear the long so he's talking to a group of people who want to be saved by keeping the law these are old testament experience Old Covenant the Old Covenant experience Old Covenant experience you know if you so much your old common experience people and he says Do you not hear the law so very interesting he's advocating for a new covenant experience and saying hey we need to hear the law correctly or interact with the law on the right way Yes Ok that's a 1st 22 for it is written that Abraham had 2 sons and who are those 2 sons one was Ishmael by the way the girl Hagar and it was done. Through human merits Yeah I mean they tried they tried. As I say there and then. The miracle child Isaac and that was they didn't try it just because they're just happy. Yes they participated day by day participated but they did not they would physically incapable of it make Yeah thank you so much that's good and true motifs or the 2 motifs that Paul's going to compare with each other right Ok this is it was good Ok so correct me if I'm wrong here just to clarify one this I trust in self yes to perform the miracle that God has promised and then I want to trust in God to fulfill his promise also to attitudes that we see here as illustrated in you know the Hagar and in Sarah Ok now we're going to go to Mt Sinai and Arabia and some other places after the break. Been a blessing to do you have questions comments all feedback you'd like to leave us find us on social media and I saw it. On Facebook Twitter Instagram for you to. Join us like this comes on the handle again. Now back to the discussion. Welcome back we're looking at the character in The New Testament that had experience of both the Old and New Covenant Let's go to go after for verse $24.00 and the 1st phrase there it says which things are symbolic and we want to just emphasize here that all these things that we're talking about in this chapter they are symbolic we're not making a judgment call and all the Sarah and all the sons of it are and some people do that we want to make sure that this verse is not taken that way but this is symbolic smashing Why is the character of Abraham used here by Paul Well I believe that the Apostle in when you look at verse 22 he says what is written in this law that he's asking us that we hear that Abraham had 2 sons the one by a bondwoman and the other by a free woman so me. Means by which he had a son each expressions of different responses to the covenant but Abraham is a symbol of both covenants So as we go through this symbolic experience or allegory that he's making of this is storable experience in Abraham's life they're all coming from the same individual and we've looked at in the previous episode that God had a covenant with who believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness and it's ironic that this experience occurs in between the 2 covenant chapters in Abraham's experience so Chapter 15 Here's a covenant you believe it's righteousness you mess up you have a child with Hagar and then Ok we clear that up Ok now we're going to have another circumcision and now we're going to have the covenant renewed this covenant again with the covenant of circumcision like Abraham give me this aspect of your body in your Even this contribution that you think you have to give that to me and let me do it so it's just critical that Paul is like this is an expression of both covenants not just one and I think that's very critical before we analyze it and it's cool that he talks about Abraham and just like he doesn't Romans but like hey he was the forefather of the Jews. As you got to do what our father did because he used to be all covered and then he switched over a new covenant so you guys like him you got to switch over you know that's kind of the the underlying implication in this he's pushing forward here which is of a pretty cool cold pool pretty cool passive aggression there 1st 24 containing on he says for these are the 2 covenants the one from Mt Sinai which gives birth the bondage which is Hagar for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to some which now is Ok let's slow down there those are just he just went like light speed 100 are going to do it let's look at what it is each one of those things what is he talking about John so this is to be very careful that we understand things in the context of the book of Galatians and the broader Bible of course so now Paul is saying I'm trying to make an allegory here yes and express a certain truths. What I want to make you know make clear he says. There are 2 different covenants one from Mt Sinai Ok what is Mount Sinai I mean he's now thinking of the law of God as the covenant that God made Mount Sinai which was not bad in itself but he is now thinking in the context of the fairest seas and the and the issue of the Galatians that's what I want to talk about 1st here they are how did they respond how did the people of Israel respond to the covenant at Mount Sinai Mt Sinai Yeah sorry I was a little confusing there. Because I'm from God's perspective the new covenant but the people responded in the wrong way because they focus on self in performed the covenant here it was amazing as Mount Sinai God get all these rules rules rules rules or laws laws laws laws laws and they're like cool we'll do it all we'll do it all right and so that response and that response was found in the Pharisees was found in Jerusalem that time yes you're going to get us all gun sales next so Paul is saying listen the false response at Mount Sinai corresponds to the Jerusalem right now and Paul knows what he's talking about because he was part of Jerusalem right now. You know rule is Jewish should you wish understanding of we got to do this perfectly so that we are you know right with God is he saying legalism is one way is represented by what Abraham did with Hagar Yeah I can do this I can fulfill the promise that God said you know he will do. We will keep the laws that you tell us. We are keeping all these last so that we are right with God Farah sees it's all the same thing hearing and then he compares this now you know going on with the opposite responder's 21st 26 Ok especially verse $26.00 for us there are slowly influences but the Jerusalem above is free which is the mother of us all Ok skip down to verse $28.00 now we brethren as Isaac. Was our children of promise Ok So Jonathan what's the flip side that you're just controlling with your thought there right so we saw on the one side I can do this I will somehow make this possible attitude in response to what God is promising Yes And now we see the response that we should have he's saying Jerusalem above the New Jerusalem what God has in store for us and in the same way I say which is the miracle child God fulfill the promise and God's going to fulfill all his promises when he comes back New Jerusalem all that stuff this is the response of you should have what did Abraham do after that whole mass of us he said he trusted in God circumcision as a sign of trust in all these things and I think the miracle child happened and that was you know faith into place so this is in this is intensely critical that Paul is trying to separate I'm not referring to the historical covenants the covenant as we understand it Biblically is the promise of a child and the question is how is that child going to come about and when you and I take the promises of God that he's got those terms and conditions put the law in your heart make you my people every man is going to know me you don't have to tell your brother I'm going to justify your sins all of that Hagar is our attempt our experience in response to the covenant that God the promise to God Is this what I'm going to do and I'm going to do this on my own ability that's what Hagar represents as an extent Old Covenant experience verses Isaac represents the new covenant experience not the new covenant historically and that's a critical separation that Paul is trying to give how Abraham went about it is what separates if I were to use another allegory according to Justin just because. The gory is awesome but so he says it's a lot it's good it's good but and maybe this is too simplistic but God I just think of as I promised Siku a 1000000. Dollars Yeah I mean it's a one way I am doing everything and she just has to do the receiving right she just has to sit there and she's going to want to receive it right that would be in my my my my framework that would be the new company I give you a $1000000.00 she receives it bam she's rich I got another $1000000.00 We're all good. Old common experience be I promise to give you a $1000000.00 and she goes out there and she tries to earn a $1000000.00 and she says thank you Justin for allowing me to get the $1000000.00 She's trying to earn her way or she's making that or there's some going but I'm going to try myself. And then Jesus uses illustrations like this all the time yeah I mean you've been forgiven this person trying to earn their way back is that earning component makes it. An even though you're using looks like new covenant exterior right yes using $1000000.00 of God is good or whatever so this is work and it's tricky it's a bit tricky it is just just thinking about Abraham's experience and what Sebastian is saying insightful in the progression of the story that when have to 15 when we see Abraham believed God and it was counted to him for righteousness that when God makes these covenant promises it's very enticing and I mean so far every time that we've been talking about the covenant. Your heart just goes out to him I want this you know and the children of Israel at Mount Sinai they saw what God was promising them and they wanted it and they said we we want to be a part of this and so that's not a that's not what was wrong right that that desire to be a part of you know to has to to participate in the covenant that we want to do this we want to be a part of this that that's not what was wrong but what happens after that like what you are saying is now you mean I just have to sit here like you know it's it's it goes to the I think the the the time he was. 23. Questions for nations 4 of us $23.00 but he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh and we talked about this in Romans 8 talking about what does this the flesh is about it's about the carnality I want to do this in my own strength you know like I I I have to feature in here somewhere as you look at the Covenant and it's all god god god god god Now see here and I want to do this for you will you allow me to do this in your life and that's the hard part for us and so were many Christians struggle with this all the new covenant things where they mix up as we said his historical covenants with experiential covenant because we only see it up because Paul talks about 2 covenants here and what he means what he's trying to say is that this other covenant is really not it's not the real cover it's not the real deal but this is where you mix it up and so that's why it's so important we distinguish between the historical and the experience show and Paul here is talking about the experience is not dismissing the Old Testament he's not saying all the old testament was all legalism he's saying you can respond with legalism to God's covenant and that happens in the old and in the New Testament experience surely this is what he's trying to tell me that it happens in the same person that's a very point right there is that Paul is exactly driving that point home as him waffled like I believe you but the next day after I'm going to go do it on my own Ok I'll believe you again I will be circumspect I'll actually wait for your promise or waffle back that's right and there's God's covenant faithfulness responding to our covenant unfaithfulness That's right you know why you're all talking I'm mentioning in the back of my mind you know when you're talking to you who. You said you were to me was going to sit back and do nothing what it reminded me of is is that this whole Sabbath keeping often is is understanding the functionality of gray. Case is. You rest don't do anything and so Sabbath and itself is a new covenant experience vivified in time and ironically those who advocate for a new common experience and we don't need the Sabbath anymore and let's go back to a system of. Venerating a day of work so obviously this is a prison is contradictory. And the role of works when it comes to the new covenant experience we guess we do rest what do we how do we rest we rest in the fact that God will perform the miracle and he will make all these things possible our part our works have no merit but they are required as a response like we didn't just sit around and believe that God can do it but he had to have sexual relations with Sarah for the child to come but he believes that God will make sure that it happens and God had to bring him to the place him and Sarah to the place where they realized that they're. There in gauging in their marital relations intimacy yet that intimacy had no merit Yeah it had no power to produce what God actually wanted to produce for which is our struggle is like you know I feel like if I read my Bible you know and just make it real if I studied the Bible and if I have one hour devotions every day and if I pray for 3040 minutes you know then I will have you know spirituality you know then I'll be close to God But really I mean those are avenues to attain to a relationship with God but the reading of the Bible in and of itself doesn't have salvific merit otherwise the all theologians would be going to heaven but we know that the a theologian who don't even believe in God. So we need the works the things that we do feeling like they actually can somehow you know convince Yeah and somehow save us you know and that's our constant strain the tension that exists between those 2 groups of people it's like if you believe this then those who. Start persecuting you well that persecution is found in the next verses verse $29.00 there in chapter 4 but he was born according to the flesh that persecuted him was born according to the spirit so even it is now and I want to push forward to the end there and they peck says Chapter 5 Verse one stand fast therefore in the Liberty by which Christ has made us free and do not be entangled again with the yoke of bondage this yoke of bondage is this is this taking on the law by your own strength and doing it as a stand in the Liberty which Christ has given to you well that's your prayer you're looking at this this this enormous corpus of the law in like how can I keep this by myself you can't Jesus does it in you we all need that new covenant experience That's our prayer Hopefully yours thanks so much for joining us here on n.p.r. So as we study is topic of the Covenant join us next week you don't want to miss. You've been listening to a Bible based on the same caliber as well Dr Jonathan Walter Sebastian Baxter. Your host. Is brought to you by the full title television that changes like this morning's episode is that. Old. Boy. Find this on social media. In the 1st 5 until next time this is and.

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