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09 Dead to the Law: Married to Christ

Justin Kim Sebastien Braxton Sikhu Daco Jonathan Walter



  • May 24, 2021
    9:00 AM
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We're here in weddings all the time til death do us part let's talk about it on this a busload of inverse. Coming to you from Silver Spring. Welcome to. The Bible based conversation. Contemporary. Provoking. Post just in time within. You guys you're watching in verse My name is Justin Kim and in his studio we have Jonathan Sebastian and Siku and we are in a 13 arc looking at the topic of the covenants and currently where in Episode 9 and we want to encourage you to go to hope t.v. dot org and look at the past episodes on inverse to catch up where we are at for those who are studying our inverse Bible study guides you go to N.P.R.'s Bible dot org The slash in the verse and we want to encourage you keep going this is a very fruitful study and it's going to get into the Bible and there are some hard concepts but very very very fruitful nonetheless so I want to say hello to my friends here a little there are right and good and this is been quite a journey yes very very cerebral but very heartfelt and very impacting on my spiritual language and lingo as well we've been talking amongst our group here and we've been using a that's Old Covenant and that's New Covenant and been part of our lingo it's been a cool transition there so we're going to go to Romans Chapter 7 Romans Chapter 7 and before we do so Sean thinking pray for us share let's pray but in heaven we just want to thank you so much again for the privilege of being able to spend time in the Word and today we wanted by the Spirit to help us have a clear understanding what it means to live in a new covenant experience and what it looks like and how it impacts our lives the police bless us now be with all of us here we pray in Jesus' name amen amen amen so secret can you kind of keep update us and sink us. So we've been talking as heavy concepts and kind of hit the top top top parts not everything we've had like already. But so for someone who may be watching for the 1st time and they're not what is old New Covenant meaning and bring us up to date. So who so. No pressure I guess hitting the highlights highlights. We you know we have the Old Testament a New Testament and typically we think of Old Covenant as belonging to the old test Old Testament and New Covenant belong to the New Testament when Jesus came so a lot of times there's this picture of God in the Old Testament the Old Covenant God and he's mean and vindictive and the New Testament God who is Jesus is lovely and fluffy and sweet. But one of the high points I think you know in this study has been bringing out the character of the God who makes a covenant with his people that is the same God in the Old Testament as in the New Testament the elements of the covenant that he wants to make with these people are the same through the Old Testament into the New Testament. But what actually changes is the response of God's people so within the Old Testament or the New Testament they can be a response that is Old Covenant response which is I want to do it with my own strength or you can have a new covenant response which is I'm going to let God to do this in me work out His will in my life so I think that's roughly you know kind of you know excellent excellent we get the old covenant response from the story in Mount Sinai when a lot of this road says I want to we can do it our own strength and we see that even though the sentiment was a necessary legal list we see the fruit of that throughout many characters in the old and also the New Testament rather civically the Farriss we looked at the Jerusalem which now is according to go the leaders of the Jews at the time. Right we said hey this law we can do it on our strengths when God says Don't lie I'm going to just muster up all the strength I have I'm not going to lie I'm going to do despite all by mind zone and a cool one was Abraham actually thing both responses in one person you know like it's really just about how you respond not because you're a Pharisee but you know the same individual can't have you know so God You promised me kids I'm going to have kids all by myself and then miracle child come to. The beautiful thing is that it shows us that God is consistent nuff said this before but I'm saying it again God has always been good and righteous and fair and when you look at Jesus and think this is the God I want to worship Well that's the God of the Old Testament as well and so God consistency is beautiful it tells us something about his character that also tells us that salvation has always been by faith as he just said Abraham you know had that faith experience and whenever you lived on the timeline where you lived 4000 years ago or if you're living in all 50 years from now salvation is by faith and that will not change and that is what has really been impact for me understanding that and seeing that in both the Old and new test. Some sometimes even on our show we talk about those people who believe in God and then them who don't believe in God and they're the bad ones but from our discussion on the covenants it seems like that these people who don't believe in God they're not really part of the discussion that the 2 people that are being described are one who are really transformed by and the other side are those who have a relationship with God But they're not really being transformed they do all the forms and all the extra and all things and they all believe in the existence of God but not necessarily his power and these 2 groups are the ones that are actually kind of being compared and contest in which at least in the covenant discussion there were right well let's go to Romans Chapter 7 verse one and Romans we covered a last quarter but now we're looking at it with our covenant glasses yes. Or if you have Lasik surgery or your company. Sebastian got a new chapter 7 verse one through 6 please. Or do you not know brother and for I speak to those who know the law that the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives for the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives but if the husband dies she is released from the law of her husband so that if while her husband lives she marries another man she will be called an adulterous but if her husband dies she is free from the law so that she is no adulterous though she has married another man because just up there and pause and this is a very dance passage and we really want to encourage you out there to get out your Bibles and 2 you can watch us and you can see us reading it but actually having in front of you especially when it comes to the Book of Romans and especially chapter 7 of Romans I want to see in front of your. Sebastian just read about this this allegory if you will new and every hour every allegory is not perfect right correct he is using this as a muti if so describe this what's going on and and this this death. Death Do Us Part of what's going on there just starting from verse 7 if we have it or 7. Percent Ok if you really don't have to visit it if you haven't read Chapter 6 1st one says go back and read Chapter 6 Ok because it says or do you not know 3rd this or was that coming from because he's been talking about something in the previous admitting the previous rate and in the previous context and says or do you not know brethren I'm going to skip the parenthesis that the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives so he has been talking in chapter 6 about the law having to mean over someone who's living he's been talking about dying dying to the law and so on. It's important to understand that's the context within which he's about to bring about another illustration I guess to hit on points that the previous like you say no allegories perfect so he's trying to hit elements that he couldn't hit with the previous example and what that relationship with the Covenant and Chapter 6 about dying dying dying baptism dying Death death and now he's going to take that dying motif in and just kind of go to a different direction than yeah so he now goes into this allegorical strain. You know a woman who is married if she would you know go to another man she would be an adulterous but if her husband dies she is legally free to marry so now this is the story he's trying to set up and he's trying to fill this with with a deeper meaning of what he has been discussing and what we're looking at now so he's trying to say. Your relationship to the law changes with Jesus Ok that's his point that he's trying to make so what that exactly means you know we have to we have to discuss but it's a it's important to understand that he's not talking here about you're dying that the law is dying talking about your relationship with the law how does the law affect you in the one hand the law was affecting her when she was married that she would become an adulterer if she goes to another man right on the other hand how does the law affect her when her this other man her husband dies the law still there the law still valid but now she's free to marry because she's not married anymore to the one who passed away so the law didn't die the man died so who is that man Allegorically speaking and what happens here and that's what we're trying to look for skiver who that man is is dying but it's very clear and I appreciate the chance that that is not the law that is dying and this is a common misunderstanding that you see in many. Belief systems around the Bible that hey the law has died well what are the ramifications of that if the law has died well I mean think about 1st of all even in the context of the situation the low. Law that bound her to her 1st husband also binds her to her 2nd husband that's right she tried to marry again you know this old husband or another man with his new one she's violating that same law so when long removes law governs relationships and it does not protect the benefits the happiness of all creatures if you remove the law so essential I would even say I disagree a little bit in the sense that if the right what law were removed which even to be lawfully married to the secular record there is even less it would just meaning that it didn't just be game over like let's just say you know it wouldn't be freedom just be complete chaos chaos and anarchy in and your freedom would essentially be limited by someone else's power to exercise their freedom so you're free until someone else comes on stronger more powerful and more number to restrict your freedom to say well you want to do it but actually going to take your land we're going to take your husband we're going to take your kids like there is no law you know if there is then that law Love is not possible without law because law defines parameters the law is in mean we exist in the reality that we are in God is created all things everything is a reflection of his character that he created originally and so he finds what is right and wrong and if we say you know all that is gone we are basically saying God is dead and so love is not possible without it you know without the parameters of the law and at least in the context of Romans there would be a lot of portions that wouldn't really make sense because Paul is really extolling the law a law is good the law is holy the law is if you go to verse $22.00 there id lie in the law of God according to the inward man of the law is not not bad but our interaction with the law can be right and when we say the word law it triggers too many people legalism legalism but we have to understand that that's not what Paul is trying to say to somebody trying to say we don't uphold the law as a form of salvation as a method of salvation it is a safe person. And that keeps the law so it's and it's the other way around this I mean this is a possum clarification totally totally totally Ok so you. Think you keep saying in my mind you know talking about up to 6 percent dying to law actually die To think that it's Ok I'm going to have to think about when it comes to Paul we've got to we've got to clarify and make sure that we're not. We're not you know Ok the 1st verse for it let us continue and Sebastian Please therefore my brother in you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ that you may be married to another to him who was raised from the dead that we should bear fruit to go on for when we were in the flesh the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death but now we have been delivered from the law having died to what we were held by so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the Old this of the letter all right so clarify this what's going on in these verses here well basically in now he's going into. He's telling us what this allegory was all about and so he's saying here we have the sinful passions that are roused by the law those were the tendencies that we have inside that lead us to sin he says he's saying that is what we were what we were to dive. Not for but we had to die to has to die this part of ourselves Ok Hold that thought Jonathan when we come back after the break we're going to see what Jonathan is dying to. Has been a blessing to you Do you have questions comments or feedback you'd like to leave us find us on social media by searching. On Facebook Twitter and Instagram. While do you join us like. The handle again is in 1st Bible. Now back to the discussion. Welcome back we are in Romans Chapter 7 verse 56 and 6 Jonathan what were you saying yeah so what we see here is Paul trying to help us understand that in our experience with the law things can change when we come to Christ they will change when you come to Christ so before you come to Christ your relationship with the law is one of condemnation of what the law points out your issues in your life the sins in your life this is what the law does and I'm thankful for it because like a doctor telling you you have issues however what Paul is trying to say is the the law itself is not the doctor he cannot heal you he's just diagnosing you all right this is the diagnostic power of the law so to say but what it drives you to is this new husband which is Jesus your relationship with the law changes because now when you come to Jesus you as we have established in previous episodes Jesus through spirit as he says in verse 6 the Spirit now lives in You Jesus can keep the law through you it is his responsibility to make this possible not your responsibility your righteousness comes from Christ not from yourself so what Paul is trying to seize your relationship with a lot changes the law of remains States but when 1st 1st diagnostic once Jesus comes into your life it becomes a pathway of life for you but not the means of salvation and that pathway of life is only accomplished through the Holy Spirit living in you through Jesus working this out in your let's spend some time and you guys want to jump in but I just want to clarify what John here is saying in any maybe get some input and slow down a little bit Ok saw would describe to me a relationship that someone has the so there's just me normal Justin and I'm on convert it I don't have the Holy Spirit and I only have the law what kind of a kind of experience would I have described that to me I mean it's gruesome it's depressing you know because because you have this thing in front of you. That you're supposed to do and you're incapable of doing it so actually every you know he's talking about the that experience of you know with the law of it being free to death like every encounter you have with the law is it is condemned the Tory like it condemns you and I'm mad every time you encounter it it's saying that you're wrong you're bad you're evil you're cruel. With the with without the power to keep the law then it's just a negative experience with the law you know and you could end up thinking that the law is bad because it makes me feel bad Ok And it also reminds me that you know when I was in the in the in the Marines you have situations where what Paul is trying to paint this picture of this relationship with the law that was very similar to our drill instructors in boot camp it's like well guess what you're going to run you know these 8 miles with these packs in your boots in the rain and you're just like I can't do it and the person is like I don't care this is what's expected do you want to be a marine they're going to run the 10 miles and you're just like Ok I'm going to try to be a Marine and then you fail and say Well you failed so start from the beginning because you don't run it fast enough and it's like this is the relationship that you're having with the laws and unconverted person you're being demanded something's being demanded of you the truth cannot deliver and it's abusive because as it condemns you you know what's true so there's like it's true I can't do it I'm not able to do it and then it just keeps remarkably you would get it again that you're not doing the fear of that inability should be directed at you know if I were and I'm not I was never ever and ever in the Marines I don't think I'm going to qualify to even apply for the application of but even if I were I would think in my imagination that's as close as I'll get to Marines no problem no problem so that if I were running there even though I should blame my own ability I mean I would I would direct that fure boards that drill sergeant or to or to dump the standards of the. Or or and i'd that it would go towards the that standard that law that's exactly right and that's exactly why Paul is saying you're going to hate the law yet you adopt this mindset you're going to hate the law Yeah you're going to think things oppressive it's abusive like what kind of god would institute this yeah right and that's the same thing this woman would be looking at her husband so then I hate myself i hate the Marine Corps I hate I hate you know and and this will be bad and this is where it gets This is the 1st husband experience this is the Old Covenant experience and I would say maybe some instances maybe to disagree a little bit with Siku in 2nd Corinthians we covered in a previous episode is there's a veil so some may not even know that they're having this negative experience they may just think it's like life they're just they're running and I'm not making the standard but I pass and drink or like they're in the weird illusionary world in themselves too so in line but but but but the composite picture and in their mind what person would want to get rid of the law more than a person having an oppressive experience with the law Yes So any person who's a Christian Right now this think we've got to get rid of this thing because you're having an oppressive experience yes there's no person hoping for their husband to die when they have a beautiful marriage that's actually one of my greatest fears is imagining the day that if I had to bury my wife and to go to her funeral like I don't know if I could function because you're just thinking the love that you have for this person the relationship that's I would never wish for that and that's exactly what Paul is saying the law is good it's holy It's just why would you want this thing to die but it's because of the nature of this relationship that you're having as to why you would say let's get rid of the law because we think it's the law that's oppressing the good this is a good fruit for this question Jonathan Yeah I was really just going to make the same point we often mistake that our our negative feelings when we are condemned by the law yes that is the law and you look at the law what is the law it's a transcript of God's character what is God God is love. So what the law upholds the standard that we are called to is actually perfect love towards God perfect love towards all people selflessness harmony with everyone it's a beautiful thing but it's the it is that's what it is utopia heaven so it's impossible for us to live up to that because of the full nature and that's what Paul is saying the sinful nature has to die how does it happen by having a relationship with Jesus so he said I'm a sinful nature and I totally agree but let's bring it down I got it we got to bring it down so go back to the Marine Corps Ok so I'm in there and I need a conversion experience I need to look at the Marine Corps in a different way so I I hate myself i hate my drill sergeant I hate the stupid standard of like what's the standard going to run like 1000 miles in 3 seconds is that what it is or something. I mean that's what we respect the military the standards there but they but it's hard yes so then what happens I My He said a sinful nature has to die so my attitude has to die in this in this in this allegory of the allegory. And die and I need to see and something supernatural has to have been well look at look if you go in the verse right in Romans 7 in verse 5 Paul gets to that Romans 7 verse 5 before he says for when we were in the flesh the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death yes but now we have been delivered from the law having died to what we were held by so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit not in the oldest of the letter case from now on let's let's look at that because when you when you when you read there being delivered from the law and that kind of throws me in a minor tailspin Yes doesn't seem like the law is gone away with right it seems it's right but the law that he's talking about is being in the flesh that law of the sinful nature you know that you're dealing with so is my attitude to the law and my being delivered yes I'm being delivered from an end or it is exactly the same but my inner. Reaction to that is that simple nature is not in the law but. Yes that's that that's the price of husband yes I am the president within me and so Paul is then making the point in Chapter 7 that how does that take place you jump to 20 verse 25 Romans 72524248 says all wretched man that I am in a Realizing the mess that he is in who will deliver me from this body of death from my sinful nature from this issue that I have with the law and with God you're 25 I think God through Jesus Christ our Lord and I want to expand this is not just like oh I accept Jesus into my life you have to you have to see his character you see how beautiful he is you see how loving he is you look at the cross and you realize well sin is really really a bad thing me wanting to hold on to sin crucified Jesus killed is this incredible god. And so. That changes you when you look at the cross transformation takes place and you say I'm a sinner but you promised myself I want to be with you you you fall on the needs and you surrender your life to Jesus and then the miracle takes place in the heart where suddenly that sinful nature becomes disgusting to us we start to see what Jesus is offering the beautiful things of righteousness all these things as as the desirable where we before were like I don't know now we want that and we say no to sin and self we say no to that the stuff that we used to hold onto you know we have been freed. Now we can we can walk in in the spirit we can walk with Jesus into it into a new life and we can start to hate sin and get rid of it and if I can continue my my analogy with it was with Jonathan I need some I'm still not story I'm still in the boot camp it's raining and I hate my boot camp and enter and also I don't have a conversion experience I'm guessing allegories now whatever so I have converse Express. All of a sudden I had a 6 pack I got muscles my heart Avascular is that I am a g.i. Joe super Marine and next time that running test happens I I can ace it because Jesus is in me right is that your attitude towards the standard because that does happen to you in Marine Corps boot camp change at the beginning you go to something called the confidence course and this is obstacle course that you feel and then all this and at the end at the end of the 13 weeks you do the same confidence course and you completely destroy it without any hesitation because of the transformation that's happened in that time before it was like terrible never be a Marine and by the end you're like a Marine and that's and of which I previously hated the law of sin now the law of life and joy even though it's the still the same standard you know interaction to it has changed we want to make sure you want to sign up for Jesus and for the Marine Corps in. The sky shouldn't you helps me process this a little bit easier it's the still the same standard but something has died one husband has died and I've adopted a new attitude the 2nd husband of Jesus flowing through me and men Ok also Muslim men well let's continue on let's go to verse 7 for 7 and he says What shall we say then is the last sin and we've established that in the not only not on the contrary I would have not known sin except through the law for I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said You shall not covet but sin taking opportunity by the commandment produced in me all manner of evil desire for apart from the law sin was dead I was alive once without the law but the command came sin revived and I died and the commandment which was to bring life I found to bring death for sin taking occasion by the commitment deceived me and by it killed me therefore the law is holy and the commandment holy and just and good now according to what we just said this passage makes a lot more sense doesn't it but hey the law is bad but the law is good the law is bad the. Good we're fine and the law is the same but our interaction with it is different and the old attitude or the old covenant or that legalism hast to die hopefully through today's conversation you realize men there's all these standards that God has given me but it is impossible in my string I've been discouraged for a very long time or maybe you may be thinking I've been keeping them very well all by myself for a good time that attitude needs to die death must have been to part as you will with that that's my prayer with yours thanks so much footage for joining us on this episode of universe you want to continue on Episode 10 next week we look at more components in a deeper look at the Old and the new covenants here on in verse you've been listening to infamous Bible based cars the same caliber as well Dr Jonathan Walter Sebastian Baxter he could doctor your host just to. Invest is brought to you by the full time television that changes. But this morning's ever so is that in. Order to find this on social media. In the 1st 5 until next time this isn't for some.


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