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12 Covenant Love: The Discipline Component

Justin Kim Sikhu Daco Jonathan Walter Callie Williams



  • June 14, 2021
    9:00 AM
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Those God discipline his children he's some kind of angry god that whips us or is he a center Closs that gives us everything that we want let's talk about it on this inverse. Coming to you from Silver Spring Maryland welcome to. The Bible based conversation on life. In temporary and thought provoking. Post just until within. You guys you're watching in verse and on this episode we're looking at the topic of this this supply in the covenants the names just in Kim and in a studio we have Jonathan Siku in Cali in the house alone very happy with him and talking about discipline discipline discipline we have been in a 10 week are looking at the topic of covenants both Old and New both experiential and historical and we've covered a lot of ground in the last several episodes and one thing that many people don't talk about the covenant is there are curses attached this is the maybe the fine print of the fine print Yes if you don't fall through with all these things then you've got to pay these bank fees and all these no secret penalties that you know about and those penalties exist in the biblical Covenant as well why do they exist and how does that reconcile with the character of God and that reconciles and the concept of discipline so we're going to go to Hebrews Chapter 12 he was Chapter 12 is the study that were in the grass Kelly if you can pray for us and we read scripture afterwards absolutely Father in heaven we think you for bringing us to the past few weeks and we thank you for bringing us to this point in our study father you know all these things in perfect clarity nothing is confusing to you and all makes perfect sense and so we just pray that you give us the wisdom you promise in James 15 that you would fill us with your Holy Spirit open our eyes that we would see everything in the realm and in the context of your perfect. For us we trust that you will do this for us even now for me ask in Jesus' name amen amen amen amen Johnson we're going to go to John Chapter 12 verses Let's start from universe one lie just like one into. The reason he was one says Therefore we also since we are surrounded by a great cloud of witnesses let us lay aside every weight and the sin which so easily ensnares us and let us run with and Durrance the race that is set before us looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith who for the joy that was set before him and during the cross despising the shame and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God verse 3 consider him who endured such hostility from sinners against himself lest you become weary and discouraged in your souls you have not yet and this is the blood shed striving against sin and you have forgotten the xor Taishan which speaks to you as to sons my son do not despise the chastening of the Lord nor be discouraged when your rebuke by him for whom the Lord loves He chastens and scorches every son whom he receives if you endure chastening God with you as with sons for what son is the there whom a father does not chaste but if you are without chastening of which all have become partakers stone you are illegitimate and not some Furthermore we have had human fathers who corrected sorry who corrected us and we paid them respect shall we not much more readily be in subjection to the Father of spirits and live for they need for a few days chasing us as seen best but he for our profit that we may be partakers of His Holiness now no chastening seems to be joyful for the present but painful nevertheless afterword in the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it thank you Johnson Those are those a long section both thank you for reading it for those of you out there who have been listening to Jonathan read. Also an incursion even though it's on the screen to take out your Bibles and read it in the in your version or we use the New King James version whatever version you like and read along with us you can also go to inverse Bible dot org and look at the inverse Bible study guides and there you can follow along at your own pace no secret I want to ask you you have children and between you and your husband who is the disciplinary and all the mama. Being that something that you and your. You know I heard about before having kids out here you know the parent saying this hurts me more than it hurts you. And I have experienced that once in a while not every time to be honest sometimes it's just you know you're being ridiculous like but you know sometimes it really is especially when it's an issue where I know that my my son which is one of them will not fully understand why this is really important. Then I know that the pain the physical pain that they're experiencing or they motional pain from being sequestered or whatever that for them in this moment this is more painful than anything they could have experienced but I know that they need to learn this lesson because ultimately if they don't the pain that lies ahead would be worse so in that moment I'm like this actually does hurt me more than it hurts you cause you don't understand fully what of what I'm doing so you know I heard somebody who would quote their parents saying that they don't they don't buy a word of you. Well I think you know kind of going back to talk about before and this might began to a head but you know there are sometimes parents are imperfect humans I'm not a parent but I'm with you say so it's a week and there have been times that I'll use my students in the past of people that I've chased and they're younger than me and I care about my children but I feel like my children sometimes and you know sometimes we chase and I don't like anger and I'm just so annoyed at you I'm going to correct you but God. God is never like that God's Chasity in his discipline. That's not a word when he disciplines us he does a fine thank you Sebastian Oh no there were longer I didn't have that. Discipline it always comes from love and that person focused because sometimes I discipline because I'm mad you hurt my pride you have Barris to me and I'm going to put you in your place and I'm going to it's because this like this is good for you and this hurts me this hurt you it's like oh you've got to let's go to Matt So I think sometimes we are that picture because we do it imperfectly as you couldn't see that many people have a wrong picture of God because their parents discipline them the wrong way I 100 percent believe that one of the members is on your mother and father father and mother were given temporary authority from God over their children and they are the conduits by which children learn the character of God Actually you break that balance between mother and father you break character of God within the parenting mechanism and the picture of God can be worked on and it's I mean it's not just on the side they may be those who experienced parents who disciplined too harshly or you know not from the right place and then they may be those who never experienced the discipline that they actually needed. So now just the concept of God disciplining at all becomes loving because they never even experience that at the hands of a loving parent because the children take their their cues and their understanding and their standard. Of what you know care all these things they discipline they take that from their 1st experience was with their parents so this is a really wake up call to parents you are modeling their child's picture of God and these the 1st impressions they will have of God And so this is I think we're going to. Talk about disciplining him know as we look at how God does it can probably inform parents and from someone who has children and someone who has made that mistake Google times over and over that responsibility is placed on parental shoulders but with that responsibility they like the corresponding Grace is asses given to be good parents and so if those those of you don't have children whatever mothers who have children and those who have children ask the Lord for her forgiveness asked for grace and under the new covenant there is a new covenant type of parenting and also for those of you who don't have children pray for your parents the parents are not perfect your parents are sinners they need your prayers and often we don't tell our children to pray or biological children but in our in youth ministry or whatnot we don't tell our young adults to pray for their parents as they should also. Or I So let's go back to 2 covenants here or there are there are some negative aspects of the covenant so within this framework too often and we pose men because my dad just you know he totally kicked my butt then hit me all the time therefore God must also do the same so when you read these negative components in the Coblenz we just make that connection there and that God must be angry he must be impatient he must be stingy he must be and I don't know he has a belt. And sort of thing me what's No Kelly. Ok Some have said before it's just when we read scripture we need to remember all of Scripture is true so like oh this means God is a patient will know the Bible says God is patient all this means God isn't loving here no God is always loving because he's love so all those things we know about God We need to keep those in mind as we look at the discipline he gives right so he keep the and the context and verses basically for through 8 Paul. Sorry the author of Hebrews and his ball is building a very logical argument of why you chase is like don't you chase in your children and don't you like Respect your parents for doing that is a good thing and I think of even again about my students that I have biological children yet but I think about there is a student which will remain unnamed that caused me a lot of trouble and acted up a lot and I could see so much so. In terms of prayer but yes yeah much longer that so. But seeing them and I could see so much potential for good like what is natural leaders and just someone who has so much potential I'm like why are you doing this to yourself why doing this to me and so I would chase of them and they think why are you so mean to me Ms Williams And like my honest answer was because I cared about them and it was like I love you so much and why are you doing this and it would have been way easier for me to straight up ignore them and just be like you're being foolish you live your foolish life I don't even care so it actually required more effort and more self-control and more love and more kindness to put myself in that situation and try to correct them and help them see where they should be going so it's actually less loving and more passive and less conducive for a relationship to bill you go that way go ahead I'll see when you get back so this to me this is so indicative of God's love I'm willing he's like I'm willing to be misunderstood by you that's how much I love you more than I even love your opinion of me I'm going to do what's good by you even if you don't get it in the moment yeah that's those those who are very passionate. And if you're out there watching. You know. What you know this really profound because it speaks to the heart of God Yeah he warns us you know this is before the Civil War He warns us and yeah I'm telling you we're going to know if you love so. When you weren't sure about them you would just let them do whatever you know you're driving towards a cliff if I care about this person's life I will warn them yeah I don't care. Yeah I don't think it ever takes place in real life but if a God warns us that shows off and then he also disciplines us because he cares because you know this is exactly in respect of the covenants you know when I'm think about the Leviticus and Deuteronomy for instance where you have the covenant blessings and the curses when you when you look at them sometimes it seems like this is something that God is proactively doing and then some look like it's just a natural consequence of if you reject the covenant Yeah and that regardless of whether you know God actively doing you know I'm going to do this I'm going to send somebody to you know take you and take you to captivity or it's something that seems like a natural consequence of that disobedience whichever way whatever God permits is really ultimately for a blessing because he wants us to hold that thought as we're going to hear about God's blessing in the midst of the discipline when we come after the break. In the 1st in a Blessing to you Do you have questions or comments or feedback you'd like to leave us find us on social media by searching. On Facebook Twitter Instagram for you to while there join us like us comes up a handle again in 1st Bible states now back to the discussion. Welcome back where and Hebrews Chapter 12 and looking at this concept of this discipline and discipleship discipline but there are the same root words there and that's going to continue on your own what I think what I'm saying is is that in the in the courses and in the blessings in the course is that come as a result of not keeping the covenant with God. That when the when God gives the curses his goal is to redeem us like what he what he actually ultimately wants is to bring us. Back into covenant relationship with him Cally was saying it's not about a big vindictive angry like I'm going to show you that you hurt me you know his his goal is actually to draw us back into that relationship so the measures are always corrective I mean you just look historically at his relationship with Israel you know the there's supposed to be in this covenant relationship with him as a nation and they start you know idolatry and all this kind of craziness and his like he sense prophet after Prophet to plead with them they're not listening in is that Ok I'm going to send foreign power to come in take to you know take you into captivity to give you an opportunity when you're there is kind of like go on a time out have a little time to think about what you would doing Ok having a radio. Talk to you have. And then you can come out of time out and let's let's try this again but the goal of the timeout the goal of that that that disciplining period that time is to draw back into that relationship is to is to invite them back into a covenant agreement and so God's discipline and God's chastening God's You know it's it's not for the purpose of showing his wrath but it's for the purpose of us back and actually. Talking I'm so I'm just I just think every time I put my children on just review and review there are times where just as you described this these children do not know their place and I want to put them back in the hierarchy of the Old Covenant of where that mind you it is because to me I will use every force covalent bond I know that bond gravity you know of the force field every force there is in the universe to make sure these children are in their place and ultimately because of their age and because of my age they do end up there but I realize it's very hurtful to them in the larger picture it's temporary compliance it's not obedience but there are other times where like look I need to go to the Lord like look. I want to reflect on how you have disciplined me and I so and then what happens is. Out of a supernatural under arrived from me kind of mode my voice gets really low my my anger goes away might mean impatience is suspended it's still there aren't all nature is still has to be tolerated but then I'm trying to get this child to understand his sinfulness his inability to probate and then what happens is like then Daddy was just as impatient and dad is in need of this as well yes we get both on our knees and say Hey Dad can you pray for daddy and he's ready to pray for you he's a very ready ready to pray for him and what happens is that look we don't know what's going to happen but we now it's in Jesus's court the ball is in his side that's the right sports analogy and then let's just wait to see what happens and then that has produced a very more fruitful picture of God in our family as I have been every day. And that is pray for me I just I just want to affirm one thing that you said just on the practical I think it's so beautiful and Christ centered when parents apologize to their children and there's the millennial in me but like we all need to apologize because just to hear that because sometimes you know as I didn't as a teacher like you're in the position of authority so like I must hold on to this a 14 if I apologize I relinquish my authority and I make myself like you but it's even if apologizing only in that that actually encourages your children and I've apologized to my students like it's Ok well it's like it's mind up don't cry I did so like it actually that it was them closer because you're like This is about a relationship not about me being right. You know down in this room and Hebrews you know just a chapter previous here Chapter 11 you know the faith heroes chapter you know you look at the names that are mentioned here you look at Abraham you look at Joseph Moses you know all these guys all. All endured to discipline they need that this is them we look up to the Mahdi's are heroes of faith but these all had to be disciplined lives you know. We talk a lot of all the last season and last season you think of Joseph he had I mean he was a good but he had some issues there and he. Pried into most of us you know he was trying his own strength to take people out of kilter you know so there was this 40 years of discipline you know so this is a point is part of the Christian life it's something we should embrace on the new covenant not as like oh you know this is so terrible. It's a redemptive way of God you know trying to help us it's has to do with this because it's humans us into alignment it's not God not forcing he's not going to push this on us but as we agreed to his guidance his father over us he is going to take us on a journey that helps us where we let go of our own ways and that way I want to live my life and we embrace the way of Jesus' life and it does seem like in the Old Testament there are times where God's volume of discipline is quite loud. And I appreciate it I don't know if this episode was a previous up to so that I want to tell you the wisdom of sugar cubes and. Present that God is always in the context of where God is functioning from is must be always studied and so in those contexts where God seems quite loud and God seems this fervor and this zeal and even was seemingly wrath and anger comes out if you study sometimes we just look at God so I don't like man how come he sowing What's up with them is a little too extra for me and I don't like a kind of God but you study the human response and the patience that God has endured not for 40 years not for 50 years but for 400. Or the level of rebellion then it's commensurate to that level at that particular context yeah so Kelly and. I didn't Ok just a really short analogy to illustrate your point is you know if you're just walking in a park and you hear you can't see that we hear mom like tell me for. I can't your life that mom has lost her mind but you don't know that Timmy is about 2 feet away from right in front of a car he has she has called him 15 times you don't hear any of that you can't see the car all you hear is the yelling and so sometimes in the scripture or like we see the yelling and we're like Yo dude it's gone down that's a lot but Jesus knows where he's called them a 1000 times and just an analogy because I see that sometimes and especially some without without kids I'm like I don't know if a cut. Of that so sometimes I can look over the top but it's like this is my last ditch effort to save your life so if my my 3 year olds running towards a Mack truck I'm going to have the gentleness of a. Little more like a lion to me Yeah exactly yeah and that is not any indication of a lack of love or a lack of oh no that's the most loving thing to do absolutely and I was I was actually going to give you a real life story doing that because it's not right but you know I have another point though. Because I would like mean that's the essence of it is like I don't like yelling I don't like hearing yelling I don't yell but I will yell yeah yeah my kid's life is in danger Absolutely but. Think about is you know in terms of how God disciplines. Texts come to mind like in Isaiah Chapter $42.00 a talks about a bruised bruised reed he will not. Tell if I have it open here because I want to see literally how can I read it and then you know what you're up to so you guys you. Know $42.00 Verse 3 is the text that I wanted to. See Cooper auto she mentioned so for verse 3 as a bruise to read he will not break and a smoking flax he will not quench he will bring forth justice for truth he will not fail nor be discouraged. To the establish justice of the earth and his coast and so wait for his call. And what what I what I was thinking about with this text is when God disciplines he's not trying to break you you know and this is something that you know my husband and I have talked a lot about we come from African and he's he comes from an Asian background and. And sometimes you know. Sometimes in the cultural background that we've come from. And I'm not saying this is all African parents all even parents but we've noticed a trend enemies sometimes it seems like demanding obedience from your children is equivalent to breaking India will write Yeah it's like you will obey me you're a child you meant to be seen and not hurt you know like whatever I say you do and you do it right away you don't question me you know and it's kind of like. Like breaking your child's individuality there will the ability to think for themselves and all that stuff so as parents we discuss it a lot amongst ourselves because you know our backgrounds and really praying and asking God to help us not mirror that in the way that we parent our children because we discovered from the way that God treats us he doesn't do that and of course the notion we're going to Jonathan is in that verse in verse 3 it's either bruised reed he will not break in a smoking flax he will not quench and it's a real revelation of God's gentleness in treating people you have a bruised. That's kind of hard but once it's broken it's kind of hanging on by the side and all you do is just kind of like just a little bit and it's gone a little flax is like a little piece of thin string and smoldering all you need is just this pension and it's gone and so here the gentleness of God doesn't even do that and so we're not this is not some Zeus out there who's sick flexing his muscles he doesn't he. Doesn't smolder and he doesn't you know twist he's gentle. Some from here back in here 12 he says here yes back to 12 and here in verse 22 says looking on to Jesus the author and finisher of faith who for the joy of us up before him and board the cross Jesus and Dorte across Jesus and dured the torture the pain that really. The persecution of this world and he took upon himself all the shame and all the guilt right he endured all this for our salvation and then Paul flips that and says think of what Jesus went through voluntarily all the pain and suffering so that we can have to live ation and then he says. Verse 3 For consider him who endured such hostility from sinners against himself and then in verse 7 if you endured God deals with us with sons so he's now saying listen Jesus took upon himself he endured all this suffering and pain and stuff from you know from that he shouldn't endure. And that he can then give you discipline that is really helpful for you actually is not going to destroy our stuff destroyed Jesus he endured it but God's principles and the things that he does that his discipline will heal us and help us so he turns it around and so he's saying look at be inspired by Jesus and during. The worst you can do to 2nd death so and here you are what you are going to endure is nothing compared to that and it's actually going to heal you and help you that we're chasing is found over and over it is connected to endured and yet ends in verse 10 that we may be partakers of His Holiness and verse 11 that it may be painful in the present nevertheless afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who are. Been trained by it looks like discipline is not meant for those who are not His children it's for those who really cares about are those who are disciplined and in the personal care of the gentle hands of Jesus how many of you want to say Lord I want to be placed in your hands into your contract into your relationship with me into your agreement and all this fine print of all the negative I trust that it's there to alternately discipline me for a holiness it's a difference of attitude and you cannot do it by your own strength we need the new covenant mentality in our hearts and only God can do that for all of us that's my prayer of prayer for everyone in this studio and hopefully that's your prayer far less you guys thanks so much for joining us we'll see you next week here in a verse as we continue our study on the new and old covenants about the new and old testaments of Scripture tells. Us. You've been listening to inverse a Bible based on the sage telling word is wrong God Jonathan Walter Sebastian Braxton Siku doctor and your host Justin Tanner the inverse is brought to you by the hope channel television that changes like this and more inspiring episodes is that in 1st the t.v. watching Find us on social media. In the 1st 5 until next time this isn't very.


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