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01 The Core of War

Dave Fiedler
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Dave Fiedler

Author and Educator



  • June 21, 2021
    10:45 AM
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In you are about to enjoy a presentation recorded at the 2021 michigan conference camp meeting held at cedar lake michigan. We pray that the Lord will bless you as you listen. Loving father, what a privilege it is once again to come before the throne of grace and father. We come boldly because we have such a high priest as our jesus and lord, we are so thankful that we can be covered by his blood that we can live for the liveliness of the spirit who dwells within us. And lord is we're gathered here to be fed and to be taught to be challenged to be strengthened, to be encouraged. Once more. Further we plead that you would just be with us. We know that this is your camp meeting. It's your idea that we would come and such a convocation to honor and glorify you to be filled, that we might go out and fill others. And so father, i pray for our brother de fiedler, who will be sharing with us, asked that you would just fill him with your spirit, that the words that his shares would not be his own, but they would come from on high mer minds be attentive, take away every distraction that we might be fed from your hand. We ask these blessings in these mercies in jesus name a ma'am. I'm more of a teacher than I am a preacher. So, you know, if you're expecting a great sermon, ah, doug, bachelors coming and yeah, and there are other other qualified individuals. Ok. That's not what you'll probably get from me. But perhaps the, the trade off is that, you know, within reason I don't mind interruptions. So if you have a question, you waive a hand and you know, I should repeat, remind me to repeat the question. If there's a question that comes up, you know, So that the video audience can understand what's going on. But yeah, I'm just happy to be back I, I described myself as a recovering educator and it's fun when I have the chance to to get out and do something like this. Ok, well, I have 5 sessions and they will build one on another. And so we're beginning with, with this topic, the core of the war i, you know, I, I'm kind of a cause and effect logical sort of a guy. And That has its strengths and weaknesses, i'm sure, but we're in a great controversy. And it unnerves me when I find people don't even know what the controversies over you know, what are we fighting about what's, what's, what's the core of this whole operation? You know what, here we art conflicts have roots trying to in to conflict and ignore its root is doomed to failure. And that's true. The greg conran god has given us our role in this conflict. And as in light of that, I can't escape the conviction that it's a good idea to understand what's actually going on. God calls for far more tact, more wise generalship than has yet been given him by his human agents. There is need of sharp, sanctified thinking and keen work to counteract the ingenious plans of see sometimes we operate with the idea that we are more or less simply along for the ride. And that's not true. We are called to an army The Lord will not write as wise. Those who cannot distinguish between a tree that bears thorn berries and a tree that bears all it I don't know what kind of thornbury she had in mind. She wrote that and I don't know much about all if they don't grow and B C or anywhere else. But there are issues and it takes, takes a little thought. It takes some digging to find the boundary lines of issues. You know, I guess, you know, thornberry is and all of that may be above my pay scale. So at the risk of dumbing the whole thing down, you know, can we at least tell the difference between an orange an Apple that's where I met with this. You know, what, let's, let's try do you think categorically you will find that there are many steps in the great controversy that are categorical distinctions. So just wanted to plant that idea. And so now we're going to get started. We're going to start, we're every good story search, and that's the beginning. Now, if I speaking biblical way, said in the beginning, you would probably have a thought that would come to mind and it would likely be this one. But that's actually the 3rd beginning. Ah, if you thought a little bit more or you would probably think of another one and that's the 1st beginning, we're actually looking for the one in the middle. Jesus said, you are of your father, the devil, and the desires of your father. You want to do, he was a murderer from the beginning and does not stand in the truth or he is a liar and the father of it. This is speaking of lucifer. Not at his creation, but at the inception of sin. Not at the beginning of the creation of earth, it was prior to that does an interesting timeframe at night. The Lord has given us No indication as to how long a time it was and why it says it was a long time. Well, on this kind of scale of heaven, what would that mean? I have no idea. You know, are we looking at the equivalent of a year or a century? I don't know. But lucifer was a liar from the beginning and a murder from the beginning at the inception of the principle of sin, he was a liar and a murder. Now it's interesting, there was war in heaven and nobody died. If r O war without a single casualty. That's different, the different kind of a war So, well, let's go, let's jump to a, a passage that you No doubt familiar with. I don't think I read it. All right. The mystery of lawlessness. The 2nd verse loans chapter 2. Satan signs and wonders and deceiving and all that stuff down but a little more than halfway down. And for this reason, god will send them strong illusion that they should believe the why that they all may be condemned. Who do not believe the truth, but had pleasure in on righteousness. I am not a greek scholar By any means. But those who are tell me that actually this is, this is the new king james. If you're used to the original king james, which is great to you'll notice or maybe a little different wording. Right. And be rather king james, put them right there. What's the king jane? Say it says a lie? Now one of the things I used to teach was english A and then thee are both article, right? Remember those we've only got 3 in English, a and, and the are the which we want to pronounce that a and an are the same. It just depends on whether the next word of mouth basically ok. But the difference is if I look out the window and I say there goes a car, They williams wrote out, their cars go past that was a car, then there went a car. So what? But if I say there goes the car, It's the definite article and 9 times out of 10, it means that you're going to know which car I'm talking about. Somehow out of the context, you know, that's the car that loitered over the bank robbers ran away in or that hit the little puppy on the road or the car that you were supposed to catch a ride with it. You missed, you know, so now you know which car I'm talking about. When I say the car There is a lie, a very, very fundamental lie. That is at the heart of the great controversy. What is it? What is it? That's where we're headed. We are familiar with this passage as well from isaiah. This is lucifer depicted here at the time of his rebellion. I will send him to heaven. I will exalt my throne above the stars of god. I will also sit on the mount of the congregation on the farther sides of the north. I will send above the height of the clouds. I will be like the most high and we have a way of looking at that. And I want to kind of invert that almost a little bit. Maybe both ways, most 1st, both perspectives are accurate. But at least one of the ways is that when lucifer said I will be like the most high, what he's saying is I will exult myself. That's what god does. God exalted himself. And really how hard would it be to entertain that notion? Every time everybody got together in heaven for worship, they worshiped god. Remember, lucifer was a choir director. I don't know where they have 15000000 him, so I don't know how many, how many songs are in their handbook. They're all about god. Why would they all be above? There's some other pretty neat people around here too. Are the angels or lead something around here? Why is it always about god? And could it be that god is selfish in a universe where he owns everything? Ok, i'm playing devil's advocate here. I hope you understand that lucifer promulgated the idea that god's 1st interest was himself And the angels who had never heard the idea had never entertained the idea. It was a new idea. Why put it this way? satan boldly contended that in struggling to carry out his purposes and have his own way, he was only imitating the example of god. If God followed his own will perfectly and continually, why should not the 1st sons created in his image do so? What can we just do? What we want? God does, I just want to be like god in the wrong was thing. Godlike lucifer could twist and churn and say things and, you know, you've encountered people like that perhaps just a cautionary note in anything of our discussion here. Especially in this, this particular meeting. We need to remember one thing. It is impossible to explain the origin of sin so as to give a reason for its existence. Sin is an intruder, for whose presence no reason can be given. It is mysterious, unaccountable to excuse it is to defend, it could excuse for it be found, or cosby shown for its existence. It would seem to be thin. So please, in anything that is said from here on out, bear in mind that I am not endeavouring to give any reason for the existence of sin. What I am doing is trying to be a good general and understand the development of my enemy. We don't have a reason, there is no reason that can be given for the origin of sin. But once the thought of selfishness was entertained, the trajectory that it followed in the course of heaven is, is really quite easy to trace and very logical in its development. Now, at this point, Ah, you know, maybe you've heard it somewhere along the line. You know, somebody says, is this an elective course? Can I get out of this or Let you decide? The evils which have existed in all ages will continue to exist till the close of probation. We need to understand the cause of these evils and the modes of things attacks that we may be able to resist them. There is nothing we should dread so much as being ignorant of satan's devices. Those who do not realize their danger because they do not watch will pay with the loss of their souls, the penalty of their presumption and their willful ignorance of satan's devices. Well is an elective course. Yes it is. Because god lives a 3 to choose But god does not leave us free to ignore the results of cause and effect. So I said yes, signing up for the course. And yet, and yet before anybody gives up in despair, we have this council as well. We need not feel compelled to work out the solution of every problem that we cannot understand in order to meet satan's while. Nor am I to keep my mind rained up to afford satan's device. Why? Because god is supreme. He is our strong hold in time of trouble and perplexity. If we put our entire trust in him, we shall find that he is in all sufficient guide. There's this incredible tension between working as if it depends on us and trusting as if it all depends on god. You know, and I'm not here to prescribe how that's going to work out in your life. I have a hard enough time figuring it out for my life. I just know that both sides are true. Hopefully, that makes sense. So in the great controversy, a question that I think deserves a little consideration is why would fate and hate us? I mean, for, for starter who we weren't even around at the beginning of the whole thing. Why would he hate us? And I phrase the question that way, because I hope it's, it's a given in everyone's mind that he does hate you. We are We are at grave risk when we think that maybe was a little charm offensive. We can learn to get along with him. The greatest talents and the highest gift that could be bestowed on a created being were given to lucifer, the covering cherub before his fall. He was a glorious being occupying a position next to christ. Ok. This is going to throughout a variety of, you know, kind of raw material pieces of information and we'll kind of bring it all together in a couple slides down. Lucifer was a covering sure of that distinguished by his excellence. God made him good and beautiful as near as possible, like himself. Now I have to use this occasion to introduce this concept that may be a little may great just a little bit. So here's my question. Could god have made any other being that was more like himself than lucifer? Could god do that according to this statement? Look the same way. Yeah. Yeah. Could god make another being who was more like himself than lucifer? Now that's great because if you're like me, you grew up from, you know, was a cradle role. You know, god can do anything. I'm here and say there are a lot of things god cannot do. And we will be looking at those. So I use this occasion to introduce that thought, according to this name, and it's an inspired statement so far be a for me to argue with it. God created luther as near as possible, like himself. But notice god made him good and beautiful. And in the 1st day, after the greatest talents i ask, if that could be bestowed, were given to lucifer. Just keep that in mind. And it's gone. Lucifer shows to see and When god said to his son, let us make man in our image. Satan was jealous of jesus. He wished to be consulted concerning the formation of man. And because he was not, he was filled with envy, jealousy, and hatred. Now, in the spirit prophecy, what we would call the standard book, so to speak, you know, the long available standard published works there have been here for ever since they've written of, of some sort of an interesting relationship going on between the fall of lucifer and the creation of earth. And we could piece together basically the, the timeframe you lucifer's rebellion occurred in heaven prior to, but only shortly prior to the creation of earth. And there are statements like this, that kind of link them together, right? There's something about the creation of earth, and I would say human beings that played a role head of some functional part in lucifer's rebellion. What 6 years ago now, when the last letters of manuscripts release came out from the white estate? There were a few little gems that had been overlooked. We ran into some of those fake news, hate mankind, because they are the workmanship of god. He opposed the creation of man A post. Now, you know, I may be misreading it, but to me that wording says this is before it was done. If it was after creation, you would expect it to be objected to or he complained about or some other past tense type of thing. But, but here he, he opposed it, makes it in my mind, it says, lucifer saying, god don't do that. Don't do that. Why? Why More background information. I'm going to put this together and taking it next to the angelic beings. The Human family formed an image of god, or the noblest of his created works. Oh and his backing up here, I wanted to make one more point. You're saying hate mankind because they are the workmanship of got everything was the workmanship of god. You know, break really, you're gonna complain about that now. And incidentally, i see there's good brother here trying to take a photo of that. That's all well and good. Send me an email. I will happily, cheryl, my slides with you if you prefer that approach video. Ok, everything was the workmanship of god, right. Ok next to the angelic beings next to as in, below. Angels human big, right? That's what we see in. Well the statement there was to be people by beans only a little lower than the angels that just like song 8, right? hebrews to man was created a lower than the angels, right? But then we have the statement. No other creature the god has made is capable of such improvement. Such refinement, such nobility as man, man cannot conceive what he may be and what he may become through the Grace of christ, he is capable of constant mental progress. Now just make a little contrast. Notice the words improvement become progress. And now think back to the comments about lucifer bestowed, given made It was a wonderful thing for god to create man. To make mind. I'll just frankly say I have no, I should that me. So far beyond me, I just, I just ok all I can say is, well that's really impressive. I hope to have some vague understanding of it. Eventually it was a wonderful thing for god to create man to make mind god created. Man, that every faculty might be the faculty of the divine mind. I don't understand just telling you a don't understand it, but it makes an impression on my mind. On the left, man was the crowning act, the creation of god made in the image of god and designed to be a counterpart of god. Man is very dear to God because he was formed in his own image, a counter part interesting choice of words. Now I currently live in Canada and up there we have a gentleman by him, a justin to know who is the prime minister. And if mister trudeau were to venture south some time and have a meeting with mister biden, we could say that they are counterparts. They are both the executive head of their respective countries that does not necessarily make them equal just make them counterparts. But what don't. Why mean I don't know. Those things are beyond me. This is Sharon, i'm hope you enjoy the fun. I, scott, god would place man upon probation to test his loyalty before he could be rendered eternally secure if he endured the chest with god's off. It's proven. He should eventually be equal with the angels eventually after a period of time equal with the angels. Those who in the strength of christ overcome the great enemy of god and man will occupy a position in the heavenly courts above the angels who have never fallen. What happened to a little lower than The worth of redemption involved consequences of which it is difficult for man to have any conception there was to be imparted and excellency of power, which would place him higher than the angels who had not fallen. Now these last 2 statements, this one and the one before, they're both talking about the end result of the plan of salvation. And that brings up a kind of a disturbing question. Do human beings and up better off because of sin You can agree it's a little bit doesn't mean it's it just doesn't seem right to say anything good coming out of sin. But just talking about at the end of you know, the great convers. So I think it's a fair question to ask. Unfortunately we have the answer. I like it when I have questions that have answers. But before we go to that answer, we have to see one more thing in god. It was a light. So a full gent, who that 25 sent word right there. How many of you just like really recognize a folger see, ah, you know, she did pretty well for a 3rd grade education. You can look it up if you want to. It means really, really bright. Ok. Good was like so e whole gender lucifer occupied the position of covering cherub so that the universe could at all times look upon his glory, capital h, covering cherub. So the universe could look at the glory of god. Is another one. He who was once a covering cherub, whose work it was to hide from the heavenly intelligences, the glory of god, perverted his intellect and divorced himself from god. That lucifer's job is to hide from the universe the glory of god. He was the covering cherub. No check in this slot. Adam and eve were granted communion with their maker, with no obscuring veil. Between Is that a reason for lucifer to sin? No! There are no reasons for lucifer to sin. But once he had embraced the spirit of selfishness, would that be any rotation? I think probably so Even if lucifer, you know, if God came up the lucifer, said luther, you've been covering church, you've been the highest of all created beings. Just for a change. I'm going to make you down as a buck private. However, that works up there. Not really know their command structure, but I'm going to demote you. Lucifer's response should have been brief, learn everything he's ever done in the past, has been a blessing to me. This will, this will give me an opportunity to see an entirely different side of the divine working of the government. I haven't praise lord that's what the response should have been. But once he had embraced the spirit of selfishness, I surmised that adam and eve, even on the planning table, were a threat or a perceived as a threat. But now here's my question. Does that come through, thin? Do we end up higher because the sin and the answer is fortunately no. Through the imparted life of christ man has been given opportunity to win back again the last gift of gift of life and to stand in his original position before god partaker of the divine nature. Nothing new original position. Number one, satan in his efforts to deceive and tempt our race, had fought to frustrate the divine plan of man's creation. But christ no ask that this plan be carried into effect as if man had never phone. He asked for people not only pardon and justification, form complete, but a sheer in his glory and her feet upon his throne. That sharon, the glory and seed on the throne of god, was a part of the original plan. Loose read a thing about thrones. That he was never offered that, that option human beings as she said, have no idea what god intends for them. Lucifer did I don't know. Kind of interesting. Lucifer wasn't in on the planning sessions. What did he know when did he know it? All those kind of questions be fun to know. But one of those gems that came out that last big relief from the only way to state is this would about dropped my teeth and I don't have dentures. The creation of our year old was brought into the councils of heaven there, the covering chair and prepared his request that he should be made prince to govern the world. Then in prospect we would say then in planning this was not accorded him. Jesus christ was the rule, the earthly kingdom under god. He engage to take the world with all its probability, including i believe, the probability of sin, the law of heaven should be the standard law for this new world for human intelligence. Lucifer was jealous of christ and his jealousy work into rebellion and he carried with him a large number of the holy angels. Lucifer wanted to be king, prince of this earth. He said, don't make them. But if you do at least put me in charge And God said no, no, no, we're not going to the way I want to spend some time right now on, on a very, very dirty, simple concept that I believe is of earth shaking and universe shaking important what is at the core of the rebellion we've, we've just gone through this whole thing lucifer. Show me how I decided to become selfish. I found great offense, i believe in the plan to create someone that would eventually progress. You know, we talk about a, a glass ceiling, right, for the expression to angels have a glass ceiling. Maybe so maybe they don't have, you know, but, but that man was given the opportunity of the, of where it's a continual progress or something. I forget the exact wording But what, what was at the heart? This is not the reason for sin. There is no reason for sin, but we can logically deducing some simple concepts. Once upon a time, there had to be a 1st time when god turned to lucifer and said, please do this. And for the very 1st time, lucifer thought That's better. God wants me to do this. But that's better. I don't know when it was. I don't know what it was or wouldn't it be real easy if it was something of absolutely no significance. I mean, maybe lucifer wanted to start a service with a particular him and God says, now let's use this one. Moses know my him better than your him? I don't, I wouldn't that be so ironic if it, if, if it started over nothing. But there was a 1st time, I mean, no one will deny that now god says please do this. Lucifer says no, that's better, but their head, he didn't always do that, so there was a 1st time I know nothing about it, but what I can logically deducing, if you don't like my logic, feel free to reject my conclusions. But I think it's obvious in order to get to this point, one of 2 things, or possibly both had to have already happened in lucifer's mind. Either lucifer believed god had made a mistake. That could be no god's loose reply to this. And loser goes, I believe in the amazing it's incredible was unbelievable. God's been really, really smart, but he just goof this time. He wants me to do this. That's obviously better. How could he make a mistake like that? Maybe that's the way it was. I don't know If he didn't think god had made up effectively an intellectual mistake. There's one other option. He could believe that god had deliberately commanded something that was lucifer's best interest. God wants me to do this And he knows that that's better. In other words, lucifer had lost faith in god. Mark the word faith. Theologically it will become important later on. Righteousness is by faith. Justification is by 3. Salvation is by faith. Faith is our victory. Anything that is not on faith is sin phase is kind of a big deal. Theologically and right here, lucifer had lost faith in god. Even if God had just made a simple mistake that that was a serious concern. After all, god was in charge of running the universe. You can't be making mistakes. You can have a son go supernova when it's not supposed to or something else. Who could trust god's wisdom if it had been proven faulty? And if God hadn't made a mistake, that it meant that he was intentionally harming his subjects. Who could trust his love if it had been proven false. So lucifer had lost faith in god's wisdom, at least, and probably, and certainly very quickly, god's love as well. And you'll know that love and wisdom are 2 of the 3 great eternal attributes of god. The 3rd one is power in heaven. Lucifer never argued against god's power. Remember the other angels that came to him, it says you don't, you can't rebel against god. He can catch you to the ground as these are what, what can I forget the exact wording, but he can catch you down as he's what he can drop of pebbles in the ground. Lucifer said ok, that's not what I'm arguing about. We're not talking 50 cars here. We're not talking nuclear bombs and cruise missiles. We're not talking arm wrestling, not talking any about that. We're talking about something else, the different kind of a war i've got to hurry. Faith is a very simple matter. I love this quote, faith is a very simple matter. It is confidence in god. It's all it is. It's just that's all it is. That's all you need. You know, they saying jesus loves me this. I know for the bible tells me. So really that's all you need. You think that with conviction, all your life, you're going to be fine. What is it to be in an unsaved condition? Is it not to be living without that full conflict in god which is born of love, which leads us to take him at his word? That's the difference right there. If you have confidence in god, you are faith. If you lose that confidence in god, that takes him at his word, you are in an unsafe condition thing. Bam, right there. That's it. We could just ring the curtain down, but there's a few more details we discuss. Losing faith is not all that happens. If lucifer was smart enough to spot god's mistake, that meant lucifer was smarter than god. He made a mistake, but I caught it. If God had tried to trick lucifer into doing something, it was a raspberry good than the mere fact that god had failed to fool him. Meant that lucifer was smarter than god. Yeah, yeah. Now is the smart one on the block? I cry, yeah. Is what pride is made of now it would be easy for loser to simply do what he was sure was the best thing after all, he was the largest one around and doing that instead of this. That's what we normally say was disobedience. But it starts before with a lot of faith. You see that relationship? Hopefully that's understandable. But that's not all. We're honest. The slippery of all possible slopes here. Even if lucifer never said a word about his disobedience, the influence of his actions told all the other angels, you can't depend on god to take care of. You need to take charge of your own life. You need to do what god does. You need to exult your self. That's why that is in fact the kind of the flip side of the lie, the lie. If God cares more about himself than he cares about you. Loose verses said, you need to care more about yourself and you care about. God But that's not home. Once lucifer took the responsibility of caring for himself, it meant he had to do whatever it took to provide for himself. If necessary, that would mean stealing, if necessary. That would mean murder. Like jesus said, lucifer was a murderer from the beginning. The moment you embrace the principle of selfish concern, you are a murderer. All it's lacking are the circumstances, it would call that out of you. In the very beginning, lucifer was a liar and a murder. I think that's incredibly important. I don't to me that's just become kind of like a foundation of everything that I think I understand about the great controversy right there is that, that, that process, the moment I lose faith in god's love power and wisdom and his devotion to care for me. The moment I lose that bow, that's where I go. Ok, I did write a book called tactics and I'm not going to try and reproduce it here. But give you one slide and you know, I could give you half a dozen, do know, 3 dozen l Y T statements supporting each one of these points. But we're not going to do that right now. He's putting blood here. What did lucifer actually do in heaven? While he exploited his position, he was a high angel right for the highest interest and exported that the worth off of their trust for as long as possible. He would hide his intentions from others. He would imply or insinuate without quitter assertions. Right. It just kinda mumbled comments, but didn't he didn't say anything you could pin him down on he would distort others perceptions on white takes that up to and including the act of hypnosis and distorting their minds, maintain plausible deniability in Van or stand the concept of plausible deniability, if I'm the, you know, picking a position at random, if I were the president the United States, and I wanted something done that was technically illegal, it would be unseemly for me to do something that was illegal. And it wouldn't be good for me to be commanding someone to do something is illegal. So what I would need to do if I really want to the illegal thing done, I'm not implying anything, is not a political speech here. But if I want to come on illegal thing done, what I would need to do is somehow kind of quietly behind the scenes get the message down to somebody who could understand without having been told. And they would get somebody to do something. And then when it hits the news that somebody done something illegal, i would say I've never met him in my life. I don't know where that came from. I had nothing to do with it yet. Plausible deniability. Lucifer was a master at them. He would shift his responsibility to others. That was their fault, not mine. He would lie. He would abandon discredited positions without accepting responsibility for having advocated them. He would fight evidence using sites, supporters and evidence of correctness. They all agree with me. I must be right. And he would appeal to sympathy. Now if you read that list and you don't think of politics as it's practiced in the world today, you are extremely naive. I'm just telling you Great controversy is Paula is bare knuckle politics on a level that we can't quite yet attained to here in our human sphere, there is in the, in, in, in lucifer rebellion, if not why describe was miserable. There is one aspect that she describes more times than any other. And so I simply reproduce that here for you just as a, as a warning, she thought it was important thing began to stir up rebellion using underhand methods, winning a few at a time to his side there, followed that which had never before been seen in heaven seen began to place his thoughts in the minds of the angels. When he supposed that his suggestions and misrepresentations of god were entertained, he presented those whom he had deceived. As originating these suggestions, he presented the suggestions as something that must be investigated. He easily gathered large numbers to listen to a specious devising, and thus, without compromising himself, he succeeded in causing the minds of many to become disaffected. The unsuspecting were ensnared and taken. I don't know. I have a lot of mixed emotions when it comes to the fallen angels While I'm sure god is just that, it's really interesting thing. Lucifer was really pulling a number on these guys. The thing that was mentioned more often than not, or more times any other is it lucifer would plant a seed in someone's thought. And he kind of circle around, come back later, he engineers a conversation and bring them right up to the point where he had planted that doubt. And he'd say, what do you think without ever realizing where it came from, they would repeat the doubt that he had planted And this happened, words have power to react on the character. Men are influenced by their own words, often under a momentary impulse. Prompted by scene, they give utterance to jealousy, or even surmising, expressing that which they do not really believe. But the expression reacts on the thoughts they are deceived by their own words and come to believe that true which was spoken of satan's instigation. It is dangerous to utter a word of doubt dangerous to question and criticise divine light. There is something apparently hard wired in the mind of both men and angels that when you hear it come out of your own mouth, you think you believe it is the one reason why it decry debating societies. Because ok, decide debates pro and decide debates con somebody is going to have to be debating. You're defending something that hopefully they don't believe That's the most common thing that she brings up more and more time. So I just, with that up there, gone many of these angels who sympathize with lucifer had occupied high positions in the government of god all were enrich with the telling of intellect regardless of glory, high positions by core days and a byron right. They went after the princes of israel. Lucifer was joseph crisis, josi working to resign. He cared with him a large number of the holy angels, jesus, the son of god, was not received by lucifer sauce history. He stood true to principle and resisted every line of reasoning of lucifer and all the angels who taken sides with him. Thus evidencing that as he stood, every angel might have stood Jesus did it, proving that every angel could have. That's interesting. Jesus also kept the law in human nature, proving that human beings can There's something going on that we don't have the full picture of Where I'm, I'm suspicious. I suspect that jesus essentially manifested himself as an angel. I don't have an absolute nail it down, prove it by the inspired statement for that. But why else would there have to be this meeting? Right? The great creator assembled the heavenly host that he might in the presence of all the angels, confer special honor upon his son. The son was seen on the throne of the father and they haven't the throng. Holy angels are gathered around and the father then made known that it was ordained by himself that christ, his son should be equal with himself. So that wherever was the presence of his son, it was as his own presence. The word of the son was to be obeyed as readily as the word of the father, especially was his son to work in union with himself in the anticipated creation of the earth. Why did announcement like that has to be made? And I suspect it was because the rule that jesus plain Maybe has always been showing lesser beings how to live loyal to God. I don't We are up against the mystery here that I don't have the answer. You know, I keep reading, i get, you know, there's a lot of letters and things that I haven't read yet. I keep hoping i'm going to stumble on the answer to all these questions. But let's go on A brief digression here. Crisis declared in the scriptures to be the son of god from all eternity. He has sustained this relation to jehovah. So this meeting, this announcement here was no change in his relationship. He was always from all eternity, the son of god. But there had to be an explanation perhaps maybe that's a good way to say it had to be a revelation. Perhaps I don't, I don't know. But you remember back a couple of slides and said that they would bring these things up and say, well, it was a fascinating topic and it needs to be investigated. No, it didn't need to be investigated. Notices i say. And have ever said that I will not engage in controversy with anyone regard to the nature and personality of god. Let those who try to describe god know that on such a subject. Silence is eloquence with the scriptures be read in simple faith and let each one form his conceptions of god from his inspired word. I like fascinating. It's like you know what my conception of god may be a little different than yours. Which is read the scriptures in simple faith and you'll be ok. I have a feeling that the conceptions of god are so broad and so vast that none of us can encompass all of them anyhow. And if you see a different aspect and I see why would I have to fight you over that? There is some I would say on wise investigation, being foisted off on god's church today over certain issues surrounding the godhead. I believed them to be devious, and very ill advised, if my opinion, but I digress. It's gone. Satan, exulting. We pointed to a sympathizers comprising nearly one half of all the angels and exclaimed, these are with me! Were you expelled these also? And make such a void in heaven. And he, I believe he expected the answer to be, Oh it's a lot of angels i get. Ok. So I guess we have to think this through And the answer was yes. Yes, I will spill all these because right is right and wrong is wrong apples to apples and oranges to oranges. And if you can't make a distinction between one of the other, god help you. When it was announced with all his sympathizes, he must be expelled from the abodes of bliss, thinking and his host through the blame of their rebellion holy upon christ. Declaring that if they had not been reproved, they would never have rebelled. Hold it, don't play stupid word games with me. Ah, you are reproach because you rebelled. And yet the words with people worked with angels. Ah. Lucifer cast the cause of his defection upon jesus christ and upon god if they had not so firmly resisted his plans, he said he would not have gone doing as he did with that stupid and to be perfectly honest, I think ellen white is making it so simple that we can't miss it. I don't think we'd probably fit it quite that way. He mean, he's a slick guy. Okay. He probably made it a lot more convoluted. But you know, as I R I q is at Best put us at it serious handicap. And so I think l away probably really, really, really simplified this down so we wouldn't get the wrong idea. Ok. Ah, going to wrap up here quickly. It is impossible for man to measure the ingenuity shown by seen in deceiving human mind or in deceiving angelic minds. I would suggest I cannot explain this next quotation. It's again totally beyond me. But if you ever think you want to go up against lucifer on your own, just just remember this one lucifer's work of deception was done in so great secrecy that the angels in less exalted positions. Supposed that he was the ruler of heaven. If you're gonna wait for me to explain that one, you're going to be camping for a long time. I don't know how it works. Ok, but I'm telling ya. He's a smart guy. The originator of sin worked with all his deceptive powers and the Lord permitted his rebellion to develop before anything was done to save the angelic horse from apostasy. I'll just be honest. First time I read that I was offended. My little 900 sixty's 19 seventy's. You know, social justice mindset, said god, you can't do that. You can't just sit back and watch him do that. The reductions, the Lord permitted this rebellion to develop before anything was done to save the angelic goes from boss that bother me. I assumed it was because I didn't understand and couldn't explain it, but I'll just be honest. I mean that that was a fancy that had been written about a human being. I would feel justly offended. I was in this awkward position of feeling offended about god doing something that seem to be blatantly wrong and yet knowing that somehow it probably wasn't that way after all because god actually is A lot smarter than that. We will approach that and deal with that tomorrow. I want to close with one more slide Because you can't have no, no. Ok. So one thing, the core of the war was when lucifer said god is selfish. So I can be selfish. That's simple. If you are you with me on that god exhausts himself, i will exalt myself. God follows his own will perfectly and fully i will just follow my will perfectly and fully. I just want to be like god, if it's good for him, it's good for me. That's the, that's the very core of it. How that happened. I can't tell you will never will. But once that position was taken, the rest of it is just like john obvious. Along comes the plan to create human beings that would in one day surpass lucifer. He wasn't going to settle for that or how can you be happy with that when you're selfish, that's never going to why. And so. Oh, we have the great controversy. We have the whole situation going on. Along the way. However, lucifer had to make a case. He had to have some accusation against the government of heaven. If like having a political campaign, we're both partly both parties agree on the same platform. How much fun is that? Well, you know, I agree with him. You know who over, you know, that's nobody does that loser, wasn't going to do that. He had to come up with some accusation. I spent a full year trying to figure out the accusation. I put together monster, huge search, you know, through the writings came up with a 147, some 1000 paragraphs that had something about the idea of accuse or complain or fault finding or know and with the law or the government or something of heaven or lose, you know, had all those terms together and took me a year to go reading through them. I, when I started, i would have said van is going to be draws rules of accusations. I'm thankful there aren't. It's really not that hard. There are 9. You might, you know, you could maybe say what it out is the wording is not always exactly the same. Of course, you know, you could maybe you know slice and dice a little bit differently and maybe come up with 8 or 10. But I came up with 9 here they are in order. This is the, this is the order that they came up in in heaven. As nearly as I can tell from my wife's account. Angels are wholly by nature and wise enough to govern themselves. So they don't need god's law. We got this thanks. We're fine. That was, that was the 1st thing that god was unfair when he exulted jesus about lucifer. It's interesting to me that right, as soon as this idea is gaining currently, that's when that meeting was call. Right. And jesus was clearly identified as the son of god. Lucifer said here, I mean, I'm a, I'm a covering jer. I really think I can't prove this. I really think that the jesus probably functioned as a covering chair up to lucifer was saying, well, you know, if there's going to be a promotion, you know, he's got some good points. I got some good points. I think overall I should get the job just not fair to pick him over me. I mean, after all we're, we're both covering trips and come on God and selfish. God is unforgiving and revengeful gods. The law is defective and needs to be changed. Now we're getting down to a like a new level of substance on you. It says, god, your law, your defective. It's not good you need if you need fixed needs to be changed. Now of course, god was responding to these accusations as a, as they played out, right. You're basically saying no, no, no, it's not true. Ok. God, law defective need to be change in god's response, of course was no, it's not. And it does not need to be changed. Neither angels and course later on he would add human beings can obey god for nobody can keep god's law. And God said, yes, you can. Everyone can keep law. Luther came to number 7 here. I should back up one bit on number 5. It's interesting every single time when l Y deals with this. When lucifer brings the accusation and says god, your law needs to be changed. She has god responding in a particular manner. She never has god saying, lucifer no, I won't change the light. God never says that in her writing, god always says lucifer, the law is perfect and can not be changed. Are there things god cannot do from his own mouth? He cannot change that lot. Lucifer said, of course you can at what number sevens about god's law is arbitrary. That basically means because he said, so that's when an arbitrary law is, it does not arise from the intrinsic nature of reality or anything else. It's because someone decide now almost every law that you can think of is arbitrary. Do you need to have an A dog license where you live? What some city hall guy may dead? I idea up, you know, do you get your tax rate? 17.2 percent or you know, 35 percent. Well, congress did that. You know, what's the speed limit where you, where you drive, you know, somebody made up with, you know, and they changed the thing, right. Some of your old enough, remember been that was dropped to 55 on the highways for awhile. That was a fun experiment. Nobody paid much attention to it, but it was fun. Oh, yeah. But. But if, if there's a law is made, because somebody says this is what the law is an arbitrary law, then they can say OK, well, this is what the law is now. And so lucifer says god, your law is the fact. If God says no, it cannot be changed as a course, it can be changed. It is what it is, is because you said this would be for the different time and come on. It's like, make it 70 All the a don't think it would be better. Say something different. God says it cannot be changed. And then lucifer comes back. He's getting really sharp here. Is like, you know, you do the right job and then you get him with a left hook or however that supposed to work. I'm not really much of a boxer, but lucifer says god, your law is arbitrary. You can change it if you want to. God says no, I cannot. And so then lucifer says, in that case, you can't forgive anyone. If you can change your law, you can never forgive guy. Yeah. One of the other but not both her get. Yeah. You probably so pretty smart written god of course said no, you misunderstand the situation you're wrong. And then loose read a capital off with one last argument. He says, you know what? god's lion get his line. Everything you said his if everything up in the 1st 8 he just lying to you. You can't believe ok. That's the argument in heaven. Put yourself in god's position and say, what should I do now? That's what we'll talk about tomorrow. It's bareheaded. Father, we thank you for Even the privilege of being a part of the big show, the entire universe. The things that and fallen world long to understand are playing out in our backyard and in our own minds. Lord help us to understand of us not to be dismissive or ignorant of satan's devices. Help us to trust that you are indeed in all sufficient help or engage grant us in its simplicity. Faith, i pray in jesus' name came in To listen to more of these presentations. You may visit the audio archives at M, I S T A dot org slash audio 2021 or search for michigan conference camp meeting wherever you get your podcast.


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