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Standards Part 6c

Jim Howard
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  • June 25, 2021
    4:00 PM
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In you are about to enjoy a presentation recorded at the 2021 michigan conference camp meeting held at cedar lake michigan. We pray that the Lord will bless you as you listen. Father in heaven were grateful for once more your presence among us. We need special discern and wisdom during this last hour because we want lord to have a right conception of your will in these practical areas are bless us now lord, with your presence and with the holy spirit in each one of our hard brand jesus name By the way, if you ever want to know how to get control of a crowd, you have prayer I. There's been times where i've had crowd that it could not. And I just start our father in heaven and mason. I mean, I guess it had been somewhat respectful crowd, but anyway. Okay, so we're going to start with the issue of christian dress. But just before I dive into that, I want to read one statement for the pen of l Y. And I think is important in terms of how she wrote about different lifestyle issues or different health issues. Some people have read what she says about for instance, milk and eggs and cheese and dairy. And they have, I believe, elevated that to a level that was not what she herself intended. And I'm not saying that a big big diet is not a great way to live in a very optimal diet. But I am saying that we don't want to, again, take things and put them, give an importance to them or a level of significance to them that she and inspiration does not. Okay. So there's this statement that I'm going to share with you, and it creates a couple of categories. I think we could almost create a few different categories. We read her writings, but I'm gonna share this one with you from the book selected messages. Book 3, page 287. Or if you would prefer from the side of handbook page 160. All right. She, coffee, tobacco and alcohol. We must present as sinful indulgences. We cannot place on the same ground meat, eggs, butter, cheese, and such articles placed upon the table. These are not to be born in front as the burden of our work. The former tea, coffee, tobacco, beer, wine, and all spiritual liquors are not to be taken moderately but discarded. The poisonous narcotics are not to be treated in the same way as the subject of eggs, butter, and cheese. You get that kind of created some helpful When I want to say emphasis, layers of emphasis of you know, improving our house. I mean, the 1st thing to do there are certain things that we should discard. Ok, and those are things we don't take moderately. We just discard them because they just are inconsistent with the spirit of god working on the heart with christian life. And those were that which he calls this narcotics poisonous narcotic, which includes addictive, mind altering substances, use recreational purposes, right. Know these are not err t's that she's speaking and she's not even technically speaking of caffeine, because some people will say we've got to discard chocolate And yet chocolate was around and elements day but she did not hear her condemn the taking of chocolate and like and some of you are, you know, cheering in your chair right now. Likely because of, you know, what could be considered almost a sub clinical dose of caffeine. Just not. You'd have to eat a lot of chocolate to get a really, you know, good, but then a long drive, you know what I mean? Like, that's not how that's not the purpose and not how you use it. So the point being, she does have certain things though that she puts in the discard category and then she has other things that she speaks very clearly that are not the best. But here she make sure we know that it's possible those can be taken in moderation and that includes lots of things, right? meat and cheese and butter cetera, things that she speaks very strong about not being necessarily optimal. So we need to not refer to these 2nd tier items as sinful items, central dog. And this is where some people get off the rail and they claim to be spirit of prophecy, believing people. But I don't know why they ignore some of her balancing statements such as this one that help us to understand that not everything is of an equal level of import. We're going to talk about christian dress now and I'm just going to not dilly dally, can we just not dilly dally and get because I don't have a lot of time. I'm going to tell you that when we talk about christian dress, it's important 1st to talk about just the issue of modesty and the issue of appearance that our parents matters. Our parents actually says something to people and that regardless of what this culture tells us, which is that people are wrong. If they think that appearance should, in any way enter into the mind, like, you know, you, you look to notice my appearance. You're, you know, an awful person. People view like a moment you start recognizing your parents. That's a, that's a bad thing. You're judging. No. There's a big difference by the way, between judging and observing. And the bible does not say that we don't observe or we don't discern. So we should not judge, we should not condemn, but certainly everybody is influenced by appearance. Ok. You influence other people by your appearance? You do people think things about you based on your appearance? Just so you're off the hook. I think you're all just warm, friendly people. So. So no problem. But there's no question that how we dress. Says something about us and you know, I would not say this in a bible study. But l Y actually talks about how ministers some ministers totally under cut their message by the way that they dress and appear slovenly or whatever it might be. And that, that impression causes people to not have a high regard or respect for them. And therefore, when you don't have a high regard to respect than you, it diminishes the importance or the trustworthiness of the message that being given. So I don't think that it has no impact at all. Appearance is a reflection it's, it's an A reflection of what's on the inside. It really is, it doesn't mean that you can make an entire judgement of somebody based on the outside appearance as we know that from the story of david, right? No, god looks at the heart man looks on the outward appearance. But there is much true to the fact that our parents matters and God cared about it. If you read about the priests and what they had to do prior to ministering, there was a lot involved. You know, oftentimes the people of god would be asked at different stages to change their clothes, to wash, to purify, to do different thing. Hygiene and other thing. I mean, one of the things that I will train people when they're going out. So a witness door to door. I say, you know, dress respectfully, you don't have to dress in a suit, but dress respectfully, not slovenly and have good hygiene. I gene manners. And you would think you wouldn't have to say that, but sometimes you do. People can be turned off. And so if, if you know that appearance matters to you, then you have to know that your parents matters and it says something to other people. So what is our outward appearance saying to people that's something that we need to evaluate. Now we're going to go straight to a key text. And the key text is in 1st timothy chapter 2. Now if you want to know 1st timothy is that's in the T books, right? There's 5 books that start with t that come right before. If I lehman, which is only one page which comes right before hebrews, so you go to the T books. And you'll find 1st timothy, chapter 2. And we're going to look at verse 8. 72 and verse aid. Have you found it? All right, the bible says I desire, therefore that the men pray everywhere, lifting up holy hands without wrath and doubting, in like manner also that the women adorn themselves in modest apparel. Now, modest apparel. When it says modest apparel, what, what would you say is, I'm not time out. I'm going to talk about particular clothing items at this point, but what's the meaning of not just Okay. You can say covered up, but you can be talking about modesty without talking about quote, right? What is the meaning of modesty just as an ok? Now provider, we're still time clothing. Okay, not a tractor. Ginger, the, if you have a modest view of yourself, you have a humble view, right? You know, if you have a modest amount of something, it's a moderate amount, right? So the idea is there is some parameter that is being put some parameter, right? I mean that by very definition, modesty is kind of limiting if it's a parameter. So right from the Start, the scripture says that we should have parameters on our outward appearance. Can you say that that's clear? Basically, we should have parameters. Now the thing about it is, you know, we can speak and we should about the fact that mata c as it has been expressed here, is also from the clothing standpoint, from a bodily standpoint. It's about not being provocative. Ok, and there's much truth to that. And I know that some people think that it's, if it's wrong to, to try and say that I shouldn't be able to show whatever that's not my response is your responsibility to control your own eyes. You know, don't worry. I don't think that that's a christian way of thinking because a christian is going to try to protect their brother and sister. And if that type of dress provokes thought that jesus told us not to have, then obviously we're going to want to be at least a little bit careful. This doesn't mean that you can, you know, totally control somebody who's got a perverted mind. Ok, you're not saying that nobody should feel the burden of trying to control somebody who's got a perverted mind, you know, and walk around with the sleeping bag. But the point is there is a degree to which modesty is talking about a limitation. Ok? Now, in light of that, let's remember and I know this is, this is art. This is talking about both men and women. Ok. Let me say a different way. This applies to both men and women. But the text itself is speaking to the women. That's okay. That's okay, it's not, it's not an anti woman tech. It's speaking about the beauty of women and as you should think of it as a positive thing, but it is, it is relating this because there are some special so challenges that many men have with visual provoking. And if you read it in the summer on them out, jesus talks about not last thing in the heart. What does he say? You look at a woman left out to her, but you're going to get on, you know, people for being, you know, sex this about this whole thing you got to get on jesus. Because he specifically acknowledged in that tags that men are inclined toward sinful impure thoughts. And this is why though women are being instructed here to some extent, ok. But the truth is that this particular passage and 1st time of the chapter 2 is not specifically talking about not dressing scantily. It's certainly applied because it is talking about limitations. Talk about modesty, but the context is a little bit different. Because see, there's 2 different types of modesty. There's modesty like not exposing central part of a body so that you provoke someone to impure thoughts that type of mind. But there's also modesty as in, not dressing too elaborately or showy, or what the word i want to use. And I came up with to that's good enough. Was that extravagantly? Yeah, very good. So both of those can apply here, but specifically he's speaking more about extravagantly in the context. Now we're going to look at it together and We're going to pick up right where we left off in verse 9. In like manner also that the women and dorn themselves in modest apparel with propriety and moderation. Do we have any other translations here? I love the king jane. Shame faces this. We need to bring that word back. I really like that word. Wish faith in this, and even sobriety, right? Case sobriety. What sobriety besides not drinking sobriety, soberness, what soberness seriousness, You know, a certain measure of being appropriate, not foolish. You know, the sobriety is a bit of seriousness to notice in my version it says with propriety and moderation, propriety is sort of appropriate, right? So it's too bad because these words denote sort of a bit of some subjectivity, right? Because what's appropriate, appropriate is sort of a word that denotes you know, something that's culturally acceptable. Well our culture accept It says that to you. Yeah. Yeah, because you would be ashamed, dress that way. But what I'm saying is culturally somebody, now, I'm not saying that, but that's only what they're saying. The truth is deep down. People know because god made us this way. Remember after sin, what was the 1st thing that adam and eve did? Right? They covered themselves because there is a sense in which we know that there is something that is not appropriate about certain manner of dress. But it so uses these words. They're somewhat subjective, but then he gets very specific and this is the point that I want to come to. Because 7th day adventists, i'm going to just say this because we're all already probably aware. 7th day adventists believe that the bible teaches that we should not wear jewelry. So where do we get that? Why do we have the 7th day adventists not tell people how long their skirts should be? Why do we tell them, why don't we tell them how expensive of a car they're allowed to buy? I'll tell you how the 7th day adventists take the bible and we take the principles from the bible and apply them. But what the bible does not expressly prohibit, we have to educate on, but we cannot draw lines where the scripture does not draw lines. This is why some people I don't know make up. What are you talking about? Where do you get that from? scripturally. That's not, you're not going to find a scripture. Now I could take from the principal, the idea of not looking on naturally, the idea of not being vain and all of that. And you can, you can apply that, but it's still there is a measure of subjectivity to it. You know what I'm saying? Just and that's why I can't say your skirt has to be x inches above the ground because the bible doesn't tell us that. So if we do that, we're going beyond the bible and saying things that inspiration does not say. So we teach the principle and we can certainly give guidance. But we need to give a certain measure of room, but not so when it comes to the issue of jewelry, that's the point that I'm making. People like to say, oh, well, you know, you have a problem, my jewelry. What about all those people driving rich cars? I see him in the parking lot there. Well, if the bible specifically prohibited the driving of $30000.00 cars, then we would make sure that there was a baptismal requirement, but it doesn't. You know, what am I going to do? Say that a boss if $9.00 is acceptable, but $100.00 above is off limits in this church? Like we don't, we can't do that. That's our lines. It's scripture doesn't draw an inspiration. Hello, white does not draw. So we have to draw a line to scripture does, but the reason that we hold the position that we do on jewelry is because we believe that scripture draws a line. That's why we, that's why we said so now let's look at it here. In the 1st time and need to mean this is the clear place that we can, we can look at others for 72 or 9 again with propriety and moderation. Not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly clothing, but which is proper for women professing godliness with good works. OK, so you trax with all that was in there, right. Let's come back here 1st. He says that women adorned themselves and what type of apparel, modest apparel. Now the thing structure is such and then he says with propriety and moderation. Ok. Not with. So just to be clear, what he's saying is that modest apparel, he's not defining it for us, right? He's defining it. He is explaining what he meant by appropriate by moderate, not with the means that, that whatever he's about to lift is not moderate, modest. It's not appropriate, it's not moderate. Ok, do you fall that from the text itself? I'm just wanna make sure you see in the text and not just for when I'm saying that's how you thing. Now, not with, let's be clear here. There's a lot of discussion about bread and air and there is no clear answer, but there is a general acknowledgement that the apostle paul here in the light of talking about extravagance was not talking about a simple raid or something. Okay, that's not what he was talking about. But evidently there were practices in the time of the apostle paul that were very elaborate. And it's likely that this was a reference to a practice that was happening that time. We don't know exactly, but it's interesting to me, and I think it's valid in the text that there is a qualifying adjective, in order to speak of a certain hairstyle that is not appropriate. What's the qualifying? adjective graded or brighter. So let's just declare hair. Having hair is not him honest, did you hear? And I said, having hair is not a modest you can wear your hair in a way that is much is good news, right? That's why you had to put a qualifying adjective on it. Break here is a certain type of hairstyle that became a modest right. Wearing clothing is not em honest. You can have clothes. That is not a modest. That's why there has to be a qualifying adjective, costly clothing, did you see that in the text? costly clothing. He doesn't draw a specific line, this much money or whatever, but he makes it clear. Costly elaborate. Ok. So he had a bit of qualifying adjective because there is clothing that can be modest. There is hair that can be modest. So he had to qualify it. But when you know, there are no gold or pearls that can be monitors, he didn't say costly pearls. Or he didn't say shiny. Go, you know, he didn't say, yeah. Pick your pick your adjective. He just said, braided hair. Not with braided hair or gold, or pearls or costly clothes. So the golden pearls wearing these elements. There is no modest application of it that he could speak of as long as you're using it in the context of what he's talking about, which is to adorn yourself. Ok now says some of the amans, we believe that because the context is speaking about adorning yourself, that he's not talking about functional use. Okay, so that's the distinction we make. Because you know, if your watch happens to have some gold on it or whatever that does not mean that you're adorning yourself, you're wearing it for the purpose of telling time. Not for the purpose of adorning yourself. Ok. Now your where you're still tracking with me, right? Are you going to throw something out here? You're looking at the really fun something you're not getting paul's point in this particular tack is not so much. His particular application is not so much about provocative dress in this application. As much as it is about extravagant dress. Because specifically, he doesn't say scantily, you know, or, you know, revealing clothing. He says costly clothes. So his point in the text has more to do with extravagant, not to say that he doesn't also believe that there must be modesty and proper coverage of the bond. Maybe the issue at the time was not so much people walk around and bikinis re reverend ok. Let's come back to the text. The prohibition here. Why do we think as a prohibition here? What about the text? What are the words in the text that tell us that there are things that are prohibiting the thing where the word Ok, we're not there yet. One of the words there that it, that revealed to us that this is a prohibition. What's a prohibition? By the way, why am I using that word? That means you can't or, or it's not you not appropriate or whatever. So is there anything? Thank you, sister. Not with did you hear the sister not with what does not with mean Can we tell someone who has those be there that that is totally not appropriate and therefore we're going to withhold baptism. Because why not? Why not? Because the text, because the text gives us a subjective word. It's the same reason why if someone was wearing a goal or a not a good example. So we're just wearing like a $5000.00 suit. Okay. Would that be costly clothing? When we would hold baptism from the person wearing to $5000.00? Why not? Because the word costly is not specific. Going to say what I mean, the word costly is definitely we can educate and we should labor with the Brother and what have you. But I'm just saying that the word is subjective in its nature. The reason that we can do with jewelry is there is no qualifying adjective. There is no, you know, a little bit or whatever it's, or gold or pearl not with if you just put ellipses in there, not with gold or pearls. And that is clear, a clear description of, you know, an expression for jury. Yeah. Well then we could get into know the issue of what when we refer to gold or pearls. What the issue is because it's not costly, gold or pearl. The issue is not about cost. Issue is about display. Okay. So and the display comes from the attitude for sure. But before we get too far, here we're starting to get going here. But I want, i'm wanting to make sure we understand that from the text, there are certain things that we can draw clear lines in and other things that we can't. That's all I'm say, I'm not saying that some of them are just fine or whatever. But there are certainly, and we can draw lines on, on the issue of jury, we really can because the policy doesn't when he says, not with, you know, the example I gave is, suppose I went to a, you know, bob evans and I asked for an omelet, and I said, when you make my alma, i'd rather be not with peppers or onions. And then he go, ok, he goes back and then he comes back out and it gives me an omelet, and I see a couple of peppers and onions. And I'm like, well I thought I told you not with everson and he says, well I, I didn't, but many of them when I just put a few What would you say to that you say, well that's not the meaning of not with not with implies not with any you understand that's that's how that's how that sentence run dress with modest apparel not with and then it lists the jury. The point is that scripture itself. We don't have to look to l Y who has very clear crystal clear. We can look at the scripture itself and see in fact, when ellen white deals with this issue and she talks about certain people who, you know, the specific story, has anybody ever read the story of Mrs. D? This is D was a lady in one of our institution was mrs. D, the worker with a D, the new member or the member. I can't remember to the worker. Ok. So there was a worker in one of our sanitariums or something who was a more experienced member then this member that went to this facility and the women went facility had gotten rid of all of her jewelry and she was, there was certain pieces that she was wanting to to sell or get rid of and maybe give the proceeds to the church. And Mrs. D, working at the institution more experienced member said, oh well, I wouldn't do that if I were you Here at our institution. We were gold chains and watches and breath like other people because we don't think that good policy to look so different. It keeps us from being able to reach the people. And then l A white and telling a story says that the woman then quoted to her the clear counsel from peter and Paul. Now it's a fascinating story for this reason. The fascinating because l Y viewed the counsel of peter and Paul to be clear. You're saying what I'm saying? She didn't think it was like, oh I can, I'm not sure if it's saying now she's like, now this is definitely what to say. So she goes on to talk about how this sister, you know, thankfully kept her conviction. But she, nina had a very strong statement against mrs. Dee and others who have to face the result of their decisions before god. So you can read it in the story of the survey. But anyway, l Y, it was clear, we have no problem with that. But what some people struggle with is the bible. So let me, let me point you to 2 more text specifically. And then I would refer you to a chapter called the beauty of modesty in here, for your bible study 6. See right here to get a little bit more insight into this, but let's look now at 1st peter. Oh, by the way, before I go to 1st peter, i need to, I didn't touch on this last part. Birth 10 of 1st somebody to says, but which is proper for women professing godliness with good works. So paul says, modest apparel not with gold or pearls, but with that which is proper, good work. So she can, so he's implying that the goal or pearls are not proper for a christian, but that the good works would be proper. Ok, adorned with good work. So that was his point. Now let's go to the apostle peter 1st peter chapter 3 And birth 3. First 3, a 33. Have you found it? bible says do not let your adornment be merely outward. Arranging a hair wearing gold or putting on fine apparel, rather let it be the hidden person of the heart with the incorruptible, beauty of a gentle inquire spirit, which is very precious in the sight of god. Now, today when someone reads this text, they read that basically, jewelry is fine. You just don't want that to be the only thing you adorn yourself with. Because the text says, do not let your dorm be merely outward. What was the word merely mean? Not just that, right. Not only that, you don't want it to be only out where you don't want your dorman, to be only outward. You want to also be inward. The problem is, what does the word merely look like in your bible? What does it mean that it's a talent In the word is it was not in the original greek, the apostle. Peter didn't write it. The translators added why translators add words for clarification because they felt that it was confusing. Why did they think it was confusing? Because it was against culture, it did not make sense to say not work, any right? But, but rather they wanted to put some, some moderation. Ok, jewelry is fine and moderation. But what the text actually says, do not let your adornment be outward. Rather let it be the hidden person of the heart. And I think it's especially interesting that it's a very andy says, the beauty of a gentle, quiet spirit which is very precious in the sight of god. When we talk about jewelry, what's, what's the word that we use to describe it? precious, right. Costly, precious. And this, I believe the apostle is drawing from this and saying if, if the character that is what is precious in the sight of god, that is what attracts. That is what god views as precious, not as the world these fresh. So we have these 2 passages that are basically saying the same thing. They are dorm, it not be our that and not be, not with. And it mentions the cost of clothing and jewelry, etc. And then it says, but let it be in for some of the good works. And peter are making quiet spirit the character right. Now. Do you remember in revelation chapter 12, where revelation talks about the woman in revelation 12 who represent are symbolizes the church. You remember this revelation? Well, ok. In that passage, let's turn to it together. We really try to get it. In that passage we find something very interesting relation. 12 and verse one. Now a great sign appeared in heaven. A woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a garland of 12 stars. Now, this woman symbolizes a church in this case. What church does this woman represent? The church right close with the sun, moon, and stars. Now in the bible, the can you figure many phrases that refer that that, that you could kind of combine the sun, moon, and stars into one phrase. Recreation is a little broad. Sun, moon star, the head, the heaven. Mom refers to the happen. By the way, dimmer, what song? 19 verse one says, the heavens declare the glory of god. God, that heavens declare the glory of god. What's the glory of god? By the way His character is goodness, right. You can read the story of moses when he said, show me your glory and then he expresses his character goodness. This idea is that the natural light of the heavens declares the glory of god, the goodness of god. So when you see symbolically here, this woman clothed with the natural light of the sun, moon, and stars, were she closed with the character? God, isn't that exactly what peter and Paul both said that we should be clothed with by the way, how much artificial jewelry is on this one? Not the any girl star on the moon with the sun. Now look at revelation. Chapter 17 and verse 4. Sorry, verse one, Then one of the 7 angels who had the 7 bowls came and talked with me saying to me, come, I will show you the judgment of the great harlot, who sits on many waters with whom the kings of the earth committed for an occasion and they haven't been earthward made drunk with one of her foreign occasions. So this woman, is this a pure church guy? This is clearly talking about babylon, impure church, the apostate church. And notice verse for the woman was arrayed in one purple and scarlet. What do you think of when you think back to peter and Paul? costly array. Right. The purple and scarlet. And adorned with golden, precious dongs and pearls. So how much natural light is on this one? None the glory of god. The goodness of god. The character of god, it's not revealed in this form. So to make up for that, what does she have to do? artificial, all artificial and some people don't believe it. But a woman who has the security and the sweetness and the inner strength to go counter cultural and not where jewelry is beautiful. A woman who has that type of inner strength actually revealed something, especially with a positive attitude in a warm attitude. It's different if you me and people in the world notice that they do and so the bible is not just talking about, oh, just you know, don't do too much. That's not the point. The point is a contrast. It's a contrast between character, an artificial replacement of character and that's really the underlying point. Now when I give a bible study on this issue, I always close the issue as many other text. Me go through and they're in there, but I always talk about the time. Does I close the top of the jury? Do you remember the time when they cast lots for jesus robe and for his gold chain? You remember that? No you don't remember that because jesus did not have a gold jane. Why would jesus not have a gold chain? He was making lowly and heart. Right. Would jesus want to draw attention to himself artificially in that way? Would jesus want someone to be distracted from his character through some other attraction? We know that jesus wanted to be approachable to the poorest to everyone. He wanted to be approachable. So we know it would bother us if jesus is wearing a gold chain. I think did you know to some degree or be like he didn't, he didn't, you know, not everybody. He wasn't the course of the poor. You know, so what we do is we say, okay, well then that's why I, where dollar hearing but all we're doing is sort of pretending that we have the real thing when it's not the real thing and that's in the spirit is no different. So the reality is that the reason that we as 7th avenue to take a position that jewelry is not part of our wardrobe, is because jesus is meek and though the heart and we want to be we were just following the example gene that now to be clear, i'm not, you know, the police on this There are many things that are, I think straining and, and that, you know, if we're walking around with a rubber band thing, you know, bro or ty, claire or whatever, like whatever issue with that sort of thing. But people need to use their own judgment and you know, ask for wisdom from god and, and I don't think it's wrong to want to look attractive either. I had one woman i studied by with and she felt so convicted, she called me up one time. At the time, I wasn't even a passer i was just getting by the gym. I needed, I need your help. I'm going through my closet and there's this one red dress that you know, I just, I love it. And I, and I think I just, I have to get rid of it. I kind of want to get rid of it. Well, I feel like I look Well, you know what you mean, but to look attractive or to choose colors that you like and nothing. I'm, I'm not talking about that, you know, when it comes to make out, are you already heard when I said about that as a subjective thing. And I like what george sandman used to say, you know, george man and then the bar needs pain and painted that's it, that's the need. If you need to, you know, for your own, you know, sense of security and to just remove blemishes and have a more helpful natural appearance. And you want to wear makeup. I like, I have a problem that people go totally unnatural and, and that sort of thing. But even then I'm not going to, you know, mandate something to someone per se. But you need to have grace toward people when it comes to this type of thing. Conscientiousness, about ourselves and grace toward other people. Ok, that's, that's the key. And you never know what people are wrestling with and with decisions they're wrestling with and what have you. So why it was really clear, she said don't pick at believes, you know, that's not going to help anything. You help someone along and that doesn't mean you don't instruct them in this he, that's why we give bible says you want to instruct them. You want them to understand the will of god, but then don't harp on it to the point where someone, you know, who really has more of a, of an internal issue. Where they think that that is the biggest issue they need to deal with. In most cases there's a more internal issue that they need to deal with. But certainly we need to be clear about what we believe on notice to in your bible study, that some of the evidence are not the only one who believe that that jewelry was not appropriate from a biblical standpoint. If you look in here, there's a page that gives you a quote from John wesley charles spinny, c H. Spurgeon and mar, even included mister t in there. So anyway, so many, you know, baptist methodist presbyterians, etc. Certainly other, other denominations, at one point believe exactly the same as we do on this is there are 3 of sermons, we can pull up that say what we believe on this. So why did they change their mind? They came to a point where they believe that the culture should condition or that the bible itself was conditioned by the culture. And they let current culture dictate how they interpret the scripture. Instead of just taking the scripture for what Should I talk about the wedding ring? You are. Okay. So so here's my, my take on the wedding ring. Is that 1st of all, the 7th day adventist church, i'll start there in the some of the church manual gives allowance for a ring that is worn not for adornment, but basically for functional purposes to testify that you are married. I don't have a problem with that and I promise i support that if someone feels that their ring is merely functional to express that they are married, then that's fine. I'll tell you that personally, when I was going through it back when I was just recently married and I, you know, eventually just very shortly after that I stopped wearing arrange for many years 25 years now. I my thought process process was, well, it's not really functional, it's more symbolic. And there's a lot of symbolic things. So I'd rather just steer clear symbolic and that's, that was the decision that I made. I had one couple that I was studying with. And he was there, great couple, they're still strong strong. I've been and was able to baptize them. But one of them are they got married while I was standing with them and she started wearing this ring. He had a very good job and he had, you know, fair amount of money. And so he, you know, treated her right. Got her a nice rock. And I was, you know, noticing the rock. But I didn't say anything about the rock because I wasn't there yet, and we weren't even talking about jewelry and we were just whatever. But at vespers, david still, they were starting to come to the church and what have you? She put me side investors to talk to me. We walked out to the parking lot, gotten there, van. And she said, you know, I need to talk to you about the ring. And I'm like, I'm, we're not even talk about she just from exposure to several times church and looking at people and some are wearing and some are all and she's and she said, when I look at my ring, i think about the commitment i made before god and how much my husband looked and said, okay, and I said, I'm the only caveat i would give to the had the only caution i would give if that's your reason. The caution i would give is that we should not determine symbols of god's love. Ok that he does not ask us to use. Okay. That's our cultural symbol. That could conflict with things that he said. So I said for me and my commitment to God, my naked finger is a symbol because it's a symbol that I don't have to bow to culture. And even though it would be a lot, lot easier and I would have a problem with it and you know, what have you, This is where I was at that time and I said, you know, for me it's, it's not necessary. And I just told her my own protection, but she ended up deciding both of them that they didn't need to wear any wedding ring. But I have married and baptized many people who were a simple wedding man and no problem because they view it as functional. Tell you where I do think there is some concern. When you read in the passage in 1st, timothy is talking about adornment or extrovert. When you read in the church manual, it even uses that language that for some they do not view it as an ornament. OK, so if someone is saying this is functional, that's why I'm wearing it because I don't do it as an ornament. Then you probably shouldn't ornamented you. I'm saying like if it's not an ornament, then don't pile on ornaments. Now I'm not here to, you know, pick, i mean it's some people have little bitty edgy what I'm not getting your rings, whatever. But my point is just to say, let's not abandon the principle that the scripture is clearly saying, ok when the church allows for the people's own conscience to make a decision based on conscience. It's based on the idea of a functional band. The point was never to say open up to, you know, I'm not weren't hearing, but we're a ring that stands up 3 inches, right? No, that's not, that's not equivalent. So that's where I am and that where the church is on the wedding ring. If you really were to look at all of this statement that had been made, even though now in the church man, just as ring, it doesn't say much of the, the actions that have been taken in years past. Really, we're talking about an allowance for a simple ring. Ok. So you know, if you're not there, that's okay, right now we're just learning mode and that's fine. And you may have other reasons and you know, I'm not claiming to be the full authority on this, but that is where the church has taken a position historically at a church in many places. Now you go into many places and you know, jewelry as a whole, but 7th day adventist who take the bible in the spirit of prophecy, serious will not come to that conclusion. And I would strongly encourage you if you have any questions about this trigger topic, to read a chapter called the beauty of modesty in here because there are multiple arguments made in spirit of prophecy, passenger views that can help bring a little bit fuller picture to what we've shared here, I'm sorry, I didn't get into the christian lifestyle, but that's why I told you that a little bit afraid. But you've got it. You can. That's right. After this, I was a member called the pure in heart and it addresses the issues in the topic on lifestyle, which is 6 b to study 6 b. And let me just tell you on christian lifestyle, it's got a chapter on sabbath observance, reverence stewardship health modesty, the pure in heart that I mentioned on lifetime entertainment and love at home is on marriage and family. So there's a lot of stuff on lifestyle that could be of help you in that book. It's been a real blast being with you guys, I need to let you go mark, are there any announcements for this group before we finish? Okay. Well, thank you. Thank you very much, I pray that the Lord will give you a great finish to this camp meeting and that you will be blessed as you journey home and use the things that you've learned. Let's pray together. Bothering, haven't. Thank you so much for this time. We've had to study your word to tackle some sensitive topics, but 2 important ones. We pray that you would continue to lead and guide us so that we lord are not led by our own judgment or our own opinions. We want to be led by you and have the word of god as the rule of our faith and practice. So bless us to this and we pray in jesus name. To listen to more of these presentations, you may visit the audio archives at M. I S T A dot org slash audio 2021 or search for michigan conference camp meeting wherever you get your podcast.

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