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Ripping something that is super-glued together apart, hurts.



  • September 6, 2021
    9:00 AM
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Problem with super glue is if you play with it and you rip it apart, you get in trouble on this episode of inverse are coming to you from silverspring, maryland. Welcome to in a bible based compensation on my principal contemporary issues and thought provoking perspective. Just in can with in bye everyone. My name's justin and you're on inverse. And in a studio with me as sebastian kelly and seek who and we've been talking about the topic of biblical sexuality, biblical sexuality, and we want to just give you a heads up that we are talking about a sensitive matter. And if you have minors in area, you want to be mindful that this is what we're going to talk about. We'll leave it up to you. But we have covered a lot of things here and I have been very blessed by our conversations. This is a very, as it's a we're topic, it's a sticky topic, but the more that we talk about it's, I'm realizing this is a very important central topic specially for our generation. And we need more conversation about it with rules. Yeah. And those rules being, hey, this is a as a sacred topic, and I appreciate when I think each one of you for, for a participant, a wonderful conversation privilege and we're going to talk about something that's maybe not so nice. Episode is call when things go wrong. And we've been time, it is high, nice ideals, and we're, you know, we throw the ball higher and it's getting higher and higher and higher. But sometimes, and often we live in a society where things do go wrong, especially when it comes into when it comes to sexuality. So was going to matthew chapter 19 matthew chapter 19 verse 3 through 11. And we're going to read it back before we do cali. If can ask for the holy spirit to bless her to pray father in heaven, we thank you for this opportunity to study your work together and we thank you for guiding us thus far in this topic. And as we talk about when things go wrong, I pray that we wouldn't be speaking from our own wisdom, but we'd be speaking from the west and that comes from above. That is 1st pure than peaceable, gentle willing to yield. How full of mercy and good fruits and without partial thing, without a poxy, that is the kind of wisdom we would like to embody right now. And so I just pray the guide us by your holy spirit to that. And we prayed us in jesus name, name and men, especially matthew chapter 19 versa. 3 to 11 please. Sure. Says then the pharisees also came to him testing in and saying to him, is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason? And he answered and said to them, have you not read that he who made them at the beginning made them male and female and said, for this reason, a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife. And the 2 shall become one flesh. So then they are no longer 2, but one flesh. Therefore what god has joined together, let not men separate. They said to him why then did moses command to give a certificate of divorce? And to put her away, he said to them moses be cause of the hardness of your hearts permitted you to divorce your wives. But from the beginning it was not so. And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality in mary's another commits adultery. And wherever mary sir, who is divorced commits adultery, his disciples said to him, if such as the case of the man with his wife, it is better not to marry. Okay, we'll stop there. We all, I think the 4 of us have some experience with divorce, maybe not within our own relationships and the Lord forbid, but within our families and on your context. And so we just got to make sure that we want to talk talking about the bible going to be talking about what's in the verse in christ and just stay within the bible text. And this is there. So this is a point of safety, especially when it comes to sexuality, we can get into all sorts areas. We don't want to go there. We want to come back back here. But divorce is a, it is a very common thing, especially for the millennial generation on for I think you mentioned in a previous of her previous, a little episode that, that, that is something with our generation. We're afraid of getting married because we don't want to reproduce mistakes of the previous generation. And we're finding that the average age to get married is getting older and older and older cohabitation is rising. The weird thing is a 1st sexual encounters is declining, maybe because of the prevalence of pornography on the Internet. So this is just a weird walked our generation society that we're in right when it comes to divorce, smash and share with us more. What is jesus getting it in this passage? Why? I think the 1st thing that jesus is getting at is he existed in a time in the nation of israel's history and which divorce was something that was approached in a flippant manner. And that's why they came to the, the question to him was, is it lawful for a man in verse 3 to divorce his wife for just any reason? So the whole idea was that moses had given this prohibition in deuteronomy saying this is how it works. If you want to get the forces what you do and they just interpreted that as well. If I don't want to be with you, I just give you a bill of divorce and then just move on. And christ is saying that we need to appeal to the ideal the original from the beginning situation when god created man and woman and instituted marriage, there was an old divorce is like in the beginning it was not so. So then it will. Why did moses allow us to get divorce then if that wasn't the ideal, jesus says it was because of the hardness of your hearts, the unwillingness of the Human heart to want to endure the difficulties of faithfulness, to endure the price that is going to cost to actually have a successful marriage, mostly we're not willing to pay that and endure it. And hence, jesus says, this is the grounds for divorce. It's not just for any reason only for sexual morality and infidelity. He says now outside of that, if you marry her who is divorce and it's for reason, then you yourself are committing adultery. So christ connor cuts cuts on 2 sides, one from the side of the ideal in the other side where even in a less than ideal context, there's still a boundary. You can just get divorce because you feel like it's not working out or just irreconcilable differences. And this is a, a radical concept. I know it doesn't feel radical, probably in a christian context. People believe in the word of god. But I've had many conversations in many locations around the globe with This is a radical concept. And people will try to reinterpret jesus his words to fit their own experience. I think, I mean, I would say that it is a radical concept. You the cutlass of, of the context through just based on the reaction that the disciples had inverse hands on. When it seemed like they understood something about the gravity of what jesus was saying, Yes, because they said, if such is the case of the man with his wife, it is better not to marry because they are situations and circumstances which are not flippant, which would lead someone to seek a divorce, which are seriously valid, sir? Yes, certainly valid circumstance. And if this is the case, like if you know, it may not be at the point of infidelity. You know, like your, your spouse left with somebody else. It may not be at that point, but there's some serious emotional abuse that's happening, right. So I mean, I think for christians, regardless of cultural context, i mean I'm hearing that to them. Like if my husband is day and day out speaking to me in a certain kind of way, am I supposed to just sit there and endure it? Is that what you're saying? Jesus like this is? I mean, it is a crazy statement that jesus is making because there are steps that come before your spouse went and slept outside the house, sometimes no sept of somebody else. So it's a rad. It is a very, very radical statement that just making and I think one of the things that it, it calls for. And here I'll speak to before you married. It calls for looking at marriage with us, with a certain sobriety right and realizing it's not just about you know, it is about the roses. And yes, you do finally get to sleep with that person, you know, and you waited all these light onto your purity. And finally, you can release know that's kind of the single person. It's, you know, sometimes it can seem like that. But having like a serious lens of what it takes to have to have a marriage that is going to work. And that if this is the only way that I could, maybe even them have an exception. That means that this is a very, very serious commitment. So before walking into it before entering into it, like having that lens of this is a very intense, a beautiful, but very serious commitment that, that marriage is. There were flippant reasons to divorce back an old testament. The old testament says, if the woman does not please you in any way, like you didn't like the shape of her nose or she was, it's after lunch or whatever reason i'd have you divorce. And so here jesus is kind of upping the ante like new prevents no, and he just says there's only one condition for, for divorce. And that is a sexual sexual. What's the term that he's more than why this one copy. What does that reveal about the value that the god places on marriages smashing? To me, god is instituted this rule because he understands how damaging the separation will be if it goes forward. And so many times human beings, we are not good predictors of our own happiness. And we're also not good predictors of the fall out of ad choices. And one of the things that I've said when i've had the privilege to speak at a couple weddings is the idea that the bible says the 2 shall become one. And if you ever divorce the one does not become to, you just become broken. And the recognition of the fact that you will never be the same if you go through that experience, it doesn't mean that christ can't work with you. It doesn't mean you can't have a happy marriage afterwards. But what it does mean is that it's not the same. And that's why for god sexual intimacy is almost a physical expression of what's happening in the marriage and for a person to step outside of the relationship and engage in that with someone else. In god's mind, it's like as if you already emotionally married someone else. And so he allows that as the one out right, doesn't mean that there aren't, you know, other levels. And, you know, I have friends in individuals in my life who are considering this choice right now because of emotional pain because of neglect, because of all kinds of Miss treatment and other things in between on the Spectrum. Simply because they can't co exist with the person, they just feel like this is not going to work to emotionally damaged. And what also went out with that physical intimacy. So as I will, because I can't connect with you on these other levels that we talked about in the past in that one this, you know, and song, the solomon, i can't even physically sleep with you cuz we're emotionally on different pages. And so I think that's why jesus, by giving this prohibition he's showing how serious he is about protecting marriage and seeing marriages thrive, and covenants kept and follow through that. That's the prohibition. But at the same token, i see him as also illustrating it that this sexual act illustrates the intimacy that exists in that. Okay, well that's oxy crew. Going to take a break when come back after we look at how does forgiveness and 70 times 7. How does that factor into this divorce topic? Have been a blessing to you? Do you have questions, comments, or feedback? You'd like to lever? Find us on social media by searching in booth bible on Facebook, twitter, instagram, or youtube. While they're join, like us caught us thumbs up a handle again is inverse bible know faces. Now back to the discussion, ah, welcome back. We are looking at this topic of divorce, the D word. This is a, this is a word that has impacted an entire generation, especially those in North America who are scared now of marriage and of intimate relationships because they don't want to suffer the same hurt that, that they were exposed to. So this is a very apropos topic for, for young adults seek who, how does this concept of, of 70 times 7? How does this play into divorce? And now it's very easy for us to say, we're all, we're married here and we're younger. We don't know what we're talking about. So this isn't we're not, we're not pointing out, but we're looking at what a scripture say and how do you navigate this very human condition? And what is jesus answer to all this? Well, I just wanted to point out it kind of in that trajectory, but before that, with what sebastian was saying before, the break that god how, how concerned god is worth protecting the marriage institution. His concern is not just with people staying married, but with them having fulfilling and happy marriages. Right. So when, when the question was like also why did moses permit this? And jesus says, because of the hardness of your hearts invoice 8 of chapter 19, it says because of the hardness of your hearts, what is a points too? Is that there's, there is an individual quality, right? This is, this is within yourself that you need to have a tendency of heart, which would lead to a reconciliation even in the grossest circumstance, right? Like which would be the absolute worst. You could imagine that even in that situation there's, there's something about you as a spouse that, that needs to happen, like in your heart, make it need to have a tenderness of heart. And when, when there's that tenderness of heart, i mean it impacts the entire relationship like from beginning to end. But when there's hardness of heart, even without someone going outside of the marriage, covenant if someone burn to a toast, and if you have hardness of heart, you like for you. Yeah, yeah. Like there's already a problem within you. And so there's something that, that has to happen internally and we've talked about already, you know, coming, working up to this, you know, that, that, that relationship that we need to have with god the transformation that he needs to happen with us individually in order for us to be have to have a filling relationship and, and I think that's what that points to me with that going with the I can look to the matthew 18 where jesus says, will pop peter asked, question lord, how often shall my brother sin against me or against me and I forgive him and the traditional rabbi answer was only 3 times. And so peter thinking, well, maybe double that and add an extra. And just 7 times jesus, let me get the gold star jesus in time. 70. Peter is like speechless. How does that apply? On, on a very superficial level. Yeah. Forgive the person, but what is what, what is the, what, what, what, what a deeper is going on here. He, he's trying to drive on the fact that you have to see this in the long game, right? It's about preserving that relationship and being willing to forgive, right? It's not once I get to that number were cut off because you're already doing the relationship. When you set a number walking only forgive you 7 times, 6 more chances. 5 more chances for more to all 3 more chances than let me start looking at our future women, right? You're going down, right? This displayed is crashing and like that's exactly what jesus wants us to get away from. I had a phone call one time and a guy called me recently married and we were just, you know, talking about marriage challenges, blessings, whatever. And all the sudden it just started going towards the challenging side like the whole time. And I was like, now this is getting a really dark conversation and eventually he's like, I just don't know, you know, we're going to make it online and it's not even been 9 months yet. Like you should be still. It already moved face. And I'm like 3 kids later, like like, I mean we have stresses but I mean we're not at that place and he's like, well, how do you deal with it when no stress is common? I said, I go to the mirror in my room and I look at myself in the mirror and I say, sebastian, with all sobriety and clearness of mind and conviction of heart, you promised jesus. Not, candice. You promised jesus to love and to cherish and to forsake all others for this person for better or for worse. And it just got worse. So this is the worst time, this is the worst side of the commitment. So it's time for you to go ahead, suck it up and be like, recognize a yeah, this is the worst that I signed up for. This is the poorer, right? This is the sickness side of it. We only think about the wealth, the health, right? The goodness, you're just going to get better after we get married. That's the part we focus on, and that's what jesus with 70 times 7. He's like listen, be committed to the relationship. Don't set a limit, don't set a precipice. Don't set a line. And it's like, as I'm approaching that line, i'm already planning my exit. Rather than saying, I'm with you to the end of the line. Like we're going to find a way to work this out. And you have to decide in your mind that like seek who said that tenderness of heart, that recognizes that this same person who may be irritating me or getting under my skin. Now, that's the same person was cooking breakfast. That's the same person I was, you know, preparing your stuff before you took a trip, the same person I was looking out for you at the restaurant. And to me that's what christ wants us to main, that sort of balance and inclusivity in our assessment. Let me shift a conversation here and I want to, to commiserate because as a youth pastor, a lot of my ministry has been talking to young people and they don't want to get into sexual situations and marriage and dating. I just, they just, they would, they want to be a relational, right? They're like, I don't want to talk to anyone here though. And this is what, when, when the Internet being around and, and social media. And so now we have a whole generation, these like autumn, a tonic, you know, and just known as like around not you guys out there, but other people. Yeah. And so kelly, i want to ask you this question, what, what, what advice or counselor can you, can you give to a generation who may have been hurt by, by looking at, you know, all these past transgressions and past mistakes and, and it's, it, that it's a legitimate fear and not wanting to reproduce these things. What, what council can we get from scripture and how, what, how can jesus address be? Yeah, I think it does include things we've been talking about of forgiveness and also just as striving towards the ideal with, you know, there's, we've talked about, we all have different interactions with divorce. I mean, not directly, but we know of different people and all of those relationships that we're all thinking they all came to that conclusion for different reason, right? For different circumstances. Some of them we look at them be like that's a dumb circumstance. Other times that makes sense. And so we see them different ways. But at the end of the day, every time I've been quite this whole time, like when I thought i've been talking, i've been thinking about how so many times we wait until we're on the precipice of divorce, that we invite god into our relationship. And so we're like, I did it all my own way and now it's terrible. Well causes can divorce, but like god hasn't even been a part of this for the past 10 years. Or even, why are you making him the bully here? When he has the standard and you haven't invited him, and I'm not saying that it's only godless people get divorce, but I am saying is that this sounds impossible because it is like that's the point. It is impossible to have a marriage that last eternity and our own strength and wisdom and devotion. And so in a way it should scare you. It should be like, wow, marriage, house to heart. Yes. 100 percent. You are correct. And I remember when I was dating my husband and we were engaged, something I would say, I pray at least once a week. And I say, lord, you know, I love to save a guy a lot. But if for any reason it is best for us to separate, may happen as quickly as painlessly as possible. And I literally prayed that until the morning of my wedding and like, you know, I don't see any reason I really liked it. I like more and more so I see no reason. But I want to be open to that and then I stop praying that because we're married now and so now I'm just like, lord, no matter what happens, please guide me in this relationship. And I was even scared on my wedding day. I'm like, I don't see anything that go wrong. But there are some like people could literally stop believing in god like next week. And he, I crazy. The real scenario that exactly. I remember talking to a mentor once and high School and I said that you were like, yeah, you know like what if I what if like he does this. He's like, Yeah. You know the next day. Good. He good the car accident and like you came to think properly lang, your romantic darnesha point to is love requires risk and that risk only becomes worth it. Really in our estimation here when it's intrusted in gods hands. And so we should have a holy fear and trepidation because as we've talked about here, marriage isn't like, let me prove that. I love us, get married. That is not what marriages, marriages i am a 100 percent n, and that only becomes believable when god is involved. So I appreciate those because of grace filled words there and it's you know, the battles full of miracles and yeah, god can do everything. You can heal the leper and the whatever. But in a modern context, hey, let's put those because aside, help my marriage. Help a forgive my sin. These are, these are impossibilities. With our own strength, we lean on a supernatural power and alien righteousness for not that a 3rd person outside of myself who rectified to heal. I can't do this, I need, I need you to do this for me. Yeah. And you kind of sit back in the magic court magic to happen, which is god's grace. Yeah. Beautiful. Beautiful. We don't wanna go back to, you know, related to kelly's point. What we're talking about here, matthew 19, when jesus talks about her being tender hearted and then we talked about, you know, in matthew 18 ways talking about forgiving 70 times 7. The parable that he says afterwards is to illustrate the point that he was making, matthew ok, ok, so you says up to 70 times 7, and then he says the kingdom of heaven in verse 23 is like a certain king who wanted to settle a call to the 7. So to summarize the parable, he's got this $17.00 who owes him a whole bunch of money and he forgives that $7.00 to $7.00 goes out, meet somebody else who weigh more weight, weigh less money to him than he goes to the king. And he can forgive, this is more exacting with him. Yeah. Then the king was with and so the king calls him back and says, you obviously didn't understand the forgiven that I offered you ahead of how you How you treat somebody. Yeah. That's right. And I mean it's sometimes it's hard to, I guess practical i that, but what you, This is really saying is even in the most painful of situation in, even when it's most difficult to forgive, we haven't understood god's forgiveness. Yeah. If we can't get that, I want to I want to look at this, this, this topic of divorce, where some, you know, jesus says only in times of sexual morality, right? But there are, there are situation that are very difficult. Yeah. And some people, they like god, you put me in a box, and this is, this is the only out and how, how it is divorced. The only out is divorced. The only out. Absolutely. And as we embrace, they try to understand god's forgiveness. I mean, there are people who are literally out there, they're filling their in the box, they care what, what are the options out there, or how, what, how do we get out of this, these difficult situation? I mean, there's really no easy answers on, but I think one of the 1st places to start is we, we definitely under appreciate the power of prayer to invite god's intervention into situations into human hearts. We see e saw with a murderous desire for his own brother getting his heart changed the intervention of god. Right. We see moses changing his complete style of leadership because of the intervention of god and peter and we go on and Paul going to kill christians. So to me the same god that is able to work in these hearts is able to work in our marriage is right, that may be struggling and broken. He can change my heart, the other person's heart. But I think the 2nd place is to recognize that sometimes there is a need for physical separation. Even if there is not divorce, you may have to be in 2 different places for a period of time. And I would also recommend counseling on some level, some people don't believe in it. Some people do. I'm a firm believer in it that sometimes you need an individual to guide you through and your significant other through just problematic cycles of thinking and core beliefs that are affecting your relationship. You know, we are in these very difficult human conditions, you know, human relationships. And we need times of separation sometimes to, to, to understand these deeper truths, to understand the heart of god. And the mazing thing is, even in the midst of our hurt, in the midst of our injustice in the midst of pain, the heart of god becomes very alive. Yeah, it's Miss unfortunate and misfortune was forced place to be in. But at least the, the golden lining and all this is we understand the heart of god in a deeper way because who understands our positions of hurt or positions of pain more than god. And ultimately, god is the one who has been divorced in the larger picture of this, of this great controversy that we're in. And he is the one that will rectify it. Hopefully this conversation with been a blessing to you. We want to ask you to continue the conversation on social media and let us know your prayer requests, your comments. And if this conversation has been a very, if application one in your life, I know I have been touched by, has been challenged by it. And I, it's going to cause me to, to get on my knees a bit more. So god bless you guys, we'll see you next week. Here in a verse you've been listening to invoice. A bible based conversation telling Jonathan wall, sebastian braxton c Q dock. Justin kim. The invoice is brought to you by the whole chat, television that changes life morning by episode visit invoice. Hope to Find us on social media, invoice 5 until next time. This is invoice.


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