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Do You Have a Game Plan? Part 3

Steven Grabiner Jeremy Grabiner
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  • October 15, 2011
    4:00 PM
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in the last session unlike the last session is wrestle with noir defending an apologetics way some speed issues that are very current the first floated like the first issue like to raise the question where was God on nine eleven or really a question evil and why is there suffering this world is the Christian respond to that how do we respond to the question is reading an author who works on campuses as a Christian counselor and they ask questions every year at the dorms what's your highest question neither secular campuses and the other used to be questions like what's the meaning of life or back in the day why didn't the Packers win the Super Bowl OR why does God let Christians stand outside my dorm asking stupid questions but most recently the author was saying that the biggest question people are asking has to do with the issue of evil issue of suffering how does it how as a Christian we relate to that the problem of suffering and it's real difficult of September eleventh is reading on a Time magazine there is a story of a sixth grader by the name of Rodney Dickens he was from the inner city of Washington and lived in a not that area but had spent his zero school year six graders I do not much in life but try to get good grades in here one a National Geographic Shrek to some islands off the coast of California and he was one of three children from inner-city and Washington's first time he was ever on an airplane American Airlines flight that crashed into the and when you read this story how do you carry laws and had dreams and his family was so excited where was God why did that happen the other day was into friend of mine who has a friend says who was raped as a young woman and her parents were not that far away and she was crying out I yell for help while she was being raped and yet helped encumber parents didn't hear her communicate there she wrestles with the question how could there be a God when terrible things like that happen and share each one of you have had your own terrible experiences or you know people who have had horrific experiences and that the problem of evil is a real one and when it's a very estimate this emotional shower for example if you listen to Sam Harris and Christopher Hitchens delineated a terrible evils in this world nowadays they talk about them all over the floods numbered years ago and Mississippi River there is an area that were flooded and there were people that were trapped in their next praying to God in regard and bargaining out during the earthquake in Haiti many people called out to God and a writer in the New York Times asked the question why call out to God who is at best indifferent and at worst vengeful wide Church of God in a time of crisis and W the problem of evil is a very powerful one it's a very emotional one when we talk about the problem of evil we need to realize that we don't look at it as as a philosopher or theologian or even as a Christian will look at it as a human being and how do I make sense of the evil in this world and if I'm talking to somebody you meet somebody and they raise the question to you while believing God because of evil and where the first things we need to do is is relate to them realize that evil is something difficult to understand or explain but if anything we need to realize is that it's not just this he asked such as the believer has to answer the problem of evil the problem of evil is a problem for everyone in any of the scenarios I mentioned Rodney or reference friend he was ready to work with people that were killed in lives or tornadoes or the earthquakes everybody has to answer what do with the problem of evil and so what are the first things to do again we just talking about it some he makes a statement we can't let them off the hook they can just throw out a statement we have to ask them for their reasons reverse the burden of proof they need to give us arguments for what they believe so a question for something that raises the issue of evil question that there is well how do you explain evil given your worldview or your prospective is important to realize that the atheist materialist really doesn't have a perspective that's one problem here for the atheist is really how do we define evil germs in a book for those classes with me with science and ethics and the authors they are scientists and their trying to prove that there is good what is moral issues in return use science on Sam Harris wrote the book the moral landscape findings science to prove that there really are moral facts it really is something ultimately evil is real there really is something called evil or it's just like brussels sprouts running on whether you like Brussel sprouts you don't like to spout you like Brussel sprouts and radio gear or you don't that's a matter of what you deliciously do people you like this but you don't but we generally don't is that it is at something objective for the Brussel sprouts a good question but subject entirely answered the question of evil is there something objective that we call evil in the clip we has an interest in any talk about you know earthquakes are really not evil they are just waiting our accident result of his thinking and I would argue that the end result of an earthquake the result of the earthquake is evil people were put to death like that that is people we need by decisions that people make planned that right good question like you see you jumping a little Danny is due how do we relate to the problem of evil it stimulates a good point certainly part of his people make decisions and will come to that but right now just do why is there so much suffering how do we answer that in the first thing is not to left left but the less the aggressor off the hook evils a problem for everybody to atheist needs to answer as well the twentieth century philosopher Bertrand Russell was an atheist he said this he wondered how anyone could talk of God if they were kneeling at the bad unkind China could you talk of God and that kind of situation here's the senseless child dying from some some terrible disease how could you talk of God in such a situation powerful illustration a lot of rhetorical force but we should turn around and asking the question and the question could be what are you going to say to a child it's time tough luck that's the way it goes no happy ending no silver lining no nothing but evil that's just the way it is is that a responsible course that would be Russell 's response they cannot speak of the mercy of God they can't speak to the final justice they can't speak of on any overarching value it just is there is another because reading which taught that conversation between a Christian and a former Muslim who is now an atheist they were having a conference in setting up together they began talking them most limits Alan Jesper illustration he was born in Iran and his father died at his uncle died to very slow cancer very painful and it drove him to turn away from God I can relate to that my dad died when I was ten I very set in experiencing for years and pushed me away from God as well in Allen was a very just remains there talking back and forth and very kept asking questions in his approach so your father or your uncle 's death caused you not believe in the God Islam set right in Aspen and of course reject the God of Christianity and Judaism yes yes yes and then he asked the question what is your atheistic explanation for your uncle staff how does it help you cope and the Muslims and they said yes Muslim the atheist said stuff happens cookie said it more graphically than that but I won't say defending recorded by our universe stuff happens you don't more graphically that's your best answer the Christian asked if it allows role that you answer that your comfort the problem of evil is a problem for us thanks a problem for everybody if the atheist comes around so there really isn't any evil things just are and what is eager he invalidated his argument is his undercut is a Martin in your yard arguing that believe in God because there's evil really there is an evil it just is so arguing in a circle but how do we answer in the negative six biblical thoughts that help inform the Christian worldview in relation to this problem of evil first debate as well as the war in heaven related to text Matthew thirteen verse twenty eight but Stringer have your Bible Matthew thirteen verse twenty eight this is a parable or Jesus told about the sewer and one of the parables of the seller and sorry Mark Wednesday the thirteenth I went to Mark Matthew thirteen how is a parable that Jesus tells that Amanda has been ceding the field and while he's sleeping the seven tomes and sows the chairs of the weeds and when he and she describes this verse thirty eight the field is the world and for the good seed these are the sons of the kingdom the tears of the sons of the evil one and the enemy who settled down is the devil harvest is the end of the age that Jesus talks about this parable talked about this man selling the field and need a connection with the devil now back to the parable in Matthew thirteen in verse twenty seven it says and the slaves of the landowner came and said to him Sir did you not sow good seed in your field how then does it have chairs and he said to them what and any has done since his parable is little insight into the fact that Jesus is view was that there is an enemy and he names the enemy later on as Satan Revelation twelve in verse seven through nine it talks about the war that began where war that began in heaven so something that informs our worldview when we talk about suffering suffering is terrible need to realize that something that helps me anyway is to understand okay I'm in a battleground in a battleground there are casualties and there's a war going on it's a real war and speak not with there are words with guns but here's a battle between demonic forces the forces of good in this world is not as God intended as one of the points that as a Christian we can bring a second point brings us back to the Genesis Genesis chapter three and in Genesis three starting in verse one two verse nine we have the notes that it needs choice to rebel against God and that teaches us that a lot of what we see is the consequence of the fact that we live in a fallen world not only is there a war going on but we live in a fallen world and not fallen world has consequence the gap K nature Romans chapter eight the whole creation groans waiting for the redemption we live in this world that's not as God intended for the war a third point is as you write out is that there is our individual rebellion against God our individual sin people planning evil a lot of what happens in this world is because individuals misuse their freedom of choice to bring evil to other people a fourth twenty is very important a lot of the evil that exists in this world is avoidable if people would mentor for Christians with that differently again in a world hunger we think of the great disparity between personal Third World a lot of the issues in the world a lot of the sicknesses the people bring upon themselves a lot of what happens in this world is the cause not just of human planning and rebellion but simply human choices so the biblical worldview of biblical perspective we live in a battle zone is a war going on there's the consequence of living in a fallen world there are the results of sinful choices that people make there is our own individual rebellion amino acid like to say is that how just because there is no justice now does not mean they won't be justice in the future sometimes people say things like no no justice in the future or not none of the reborn in the future can ever repay the suffering and experiencing of the question for that how do you know the Bible we don't know I have affinity like that I envision whenever sorrows with experienced here they will be more than adequately paid in a future life and all the injustice that we see will be made right now that atheistic worldview doesn't have to whatever is this and if anybody's unjust that's displayed in the eye I'm thankful again for a prospective that looks at something larger your question and one Roundup raising my last point which is there's a lot of things we can't answer and if his Christians which I think we can answer everything about operating word making a big mistake on this question is a good one and that is two parts of it one is when things we don't know that most of the other part is why does God allow Satan to do these things well they were to step back and is some evidence that they were richly privileged to have an understanding of the great controversy that there are issues at play that don't only involve this world involve the entire universe questions about God 's justice stunts there is no kind on the worship for who is and there is a limit placed on Satan 's right ring that's for sure but there also is activity that he has within the great controversy think about the book of Job from it this ties into my last point of the book of Job is familiar with the story of short-term chapter one and Job is a righteous man nothing wrong with ember 's once is very cleanly later on it says it is well in verse six there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord and seek in the adversary came among them is the Lord said to Satan where you come from Satan said to the Lord walking to and fro roaming on the earth and Satan said have you considered have you set your heart on my servant Job that's first aid chapter one there is none like him but I think you the same for the sake of our Lord said to Satan where did you come from Satan answered the Lord saying from roaming about on the earth and walking around what say you considered my servant Job there is none like him on the earth blameless and upright during hot in turning away from evil personal Satan lays out the charge is the charge Job is only serving you for what you can get for what you get for if you do something to him he's been a cursive we see something here in the great controversy which for us we begin to see a little backdrop now you okay the book of Job it's tremendously powerful Job in chapter three wishes he'd never been born chapter sixty curses the day of his birth it's really he's in anguish over the same the reader you and I we know something 's happening gel was wondering wrestling why is all this suffering happened to me that you would wish that the book would end with a clear this is why it's happening that's not the Republicans are disturbing turn with me to Job chapter four to forty in verse three four five Job answer the Lord and said behold I have insignificant what can I reply to you as a my hand on my mouth once I have spoken I will not answer twice and I will add nothing more as soon as God reveals himself to Job and Job 's been asking for this all data block as soon as as if God shows himself to Job Job 's questions to realize he doesn't have all the answers it's enough for him to see God as Christians I think we do have a part of our worldview that can help us talk to people about the issue of suffering then it's not just a problem for us it's a problem for for everybody but at least we have a framework with which to bring comfort there will be a final judgment on will put things right we do live in a world that is not as it should be death is an enemy is not simply the way life is we also need to recognize there's a lot that we don't know that there's more that we don't know with you and to simply tell somebody I really don't understand why this would happen is that have the answer but I do know this I nearly do know that God has revealed himself in Christ and that's rescue the clearest picture of who God is and because of that because I know that God himself has experienced suffering I know that God is compassionate and becomes not that for me is a comfort to the dance talking to somebody about this issue their father had died when they're young and they been wrestling with it for years they find it very hard to to move past that and we conducted across in our conversation it was very helpful for them to see okay this is where I understand upon his life the problem of evil how can we realize how we handle it one recognizes much to prompt for us at three problem for everybody and it were discussing with it an atheist or something like that just being aggressive in their argument don't let them make all the statements ask them how you handle the problem of evil what's your comfort to somebody that suffering secondly we need to realize the emotional power of this issue and we need to come with compassion we need to try to address this non- philosophically but as a human being China makes sense of this world and thirdly as Christians we do have a worldview that helps us make sense of what we want our next point here is any questions on point questions and answers the question now my cushions are homophobic that's the next that am actually three immaculate all three sections eventually believe the Bible why are Christians homophobic held my pops a little misleading and again the issue of suffering this is something that is it is a very hard issue need to recognize the difficulty with it when you have something to say that an atheist doesn't have to say let's be talk about the issue of why are Christians so homophobic that I should ask this question are Christians homophobic the generality silly not every Christian is right of course there's a book written on the front is really what is called unchristian and much the book is the result of the survey that was done by the Barna group and they interview seventeen eighty fifteen to twenty five twenty eight -year-old and eight at half people in this group questions about Jesus and what you think about Jesus Jesus got really high marks in pain like Jesus like Jesus teachings and asked people questions about Christians and they found out the reason the survey that the vast majority of individuals said that Christians are hypocrites Christians are judgmental and Christians are homophobic horn and is very sound very much anti- gay hand on your generalities perhaps but the results of the survey of interesting if we think about that they also did a survey of Christians and they asked them certain questions for example they asked them how frequently they would cheat on their spouse is really interesting that about thirty percent of the respondents said that the cheat on their spouse last year which is about what the world says as well wipe your brow for ranges early NES look-alike the point of view here is that what is true they are generalities it is a not a majority of Christians but use of viewpoint that people have about Christianity and Christians unfortunately don't pretrade themselves with Christ did but more often than not they pertain themselves as judgmental and lots of different aspects don't know 's assets talk about this recently in the New York New York State there was a decision they are six other states United States that also had declared that young people should be able to get married to be same-sex marriages and mentioned that greatly okay I was a Christian clearly related to the question is efficiently related if you listen to Christian radio but when it passed in New York Crystal radio was all over that issue you can not in a very positive fashion at all how should the church respond to issues on same-sex attractions editors that will read we don't do that we don't love the sinner medicine very well except when placed into a case that is when it's us when exhausts we love the sinner pretty well I know you here we don't take the said neither I would understand freedom it was just a question certain times and sizes thanks recording oftentimes we treat the people in a poor way it we could ask that question if I wanted a very clear here as we go through this that I'm unconvinced that on homosexual activity is a sin against the word of God where that same-sex attraction comes from I think is a complex issue is it entirely choices did heredity is its environment I think it's a complex issue the act the action clearly is described as a student Word of God but how do our churches respond to individuals that are living out a lifestyle that's condemned by the word of God for example I remember talking to a friend among different and we are talking about silk soy milk like it when folks on my stream on the milk choices really silk is the best you just are known for or a preference right at the difference between a preference and principal preferences is not a right or wrong principles are principles but we're talking about the taste design that will talk about the fact that the folks I know has the red ribbon on for AIDS awareness any individual would not buy sell because of the red ribbon and because of the red ribbon he assumed that it was owned by homosexuals therefore when not by sulks now I will research obviously something that is not owned by homosexuals it's written by its owned by a public corporation but this thinking there is when I'm trying to address you don't want it it'd been over and by two heterosexuals living together instead we have the same reaction with my friend have the same reaction probably not there is a much more visceral reaction against homosexual activity and there is to heterosexual activity even though it is assumed as well if I was in a church in women girl woman teenager young twenty -year-old becomes pregnant was the church do usually try to rally around the person which they should comfort the helper but if somebody says they may becomes known at that person in the church is is committing same-sex activity how do they get retreated they get shut down the girl did the same thing on scene with a guy to become pregnant but usually our response is very different why is that if because we begin to measure certain sins that be very clear homosexual activity is against the word of God by our reaction to people consistent with Jesus was criticized for his tremendous inclusivity for those people that the religious establishment thought were beyond grace we should never have that experience we should have an attitude of including people don't let's look here and again is not a one word of God does consider homosexual activity inappropriate behavior Leviticus chapter twenty is very clear Romans chapter one is very clear but the Bible also says adultery is wrong it also says that Sabbath breaking is wrong to speaking to parents is wrong and also does wrong right there all on that level in fact if you read Leviticus twenty starting is for homosexuality but stoning is also for Sabbath breaking being distributed your parents like that so one know the Bible identifies it as a sin but the Bible does not highlight highlight as the said it's a terrible thing but so are many other sins as well again the origins of homosexual behavior same-sex attraction are complex and sometimes the origins are beyond the individual 's control but that don't that does not mean that the origins need to control just because I might be born with a predisposition to alcoholism doesn't mean I need to become alcoholic because I'm driven in a certain way sexually does not mean that the orientation needs to control the abstract the book of Matthew Becky Chapter seven fifty seven I existing text forest versus one to three fifty seven do not judge so that you will not be judged malefic common thing people throw out if you talk about as we just did that had some old homosexual behavior same-sex attraction activity is wrong for the table don't judge this verse do not judge so you will not be judged for in the way you judge you will be judged by your standard it will be measured out to you why do you look at the speck that is in your brother 's eyes but do not notice the log party that is in your season in addition your own cooking you say to your brother let me take the speck out of your eye but behold the log is in your own you hypocrite first take the log out of your own eye and you'll see clearly to take the speck out of your brother 's eye hears this point it is a misapplication of this verse to say that we should not speak out we should speak out we should call thin bites right name for what else should we do internally writes a coffee nice right name inside notice what Jesus says here what needs to be removed first the beam or the plane that's in our eyes it's not judging to say that an action is harmful is not judgmental that's salvific interview driving on the road and bridges out it's not judging to say the bridges out on judging if we give somebody a hog who is wrestling with their sexual identity but it is judging to ridicule someone in that frame of mind it is judging you can sort of terms for individuals that are struggling with that for some of the planks that we encounter five and like to share with you the first play is the problem that we often have is that of superiority to open Christians come to the point where they think they are superior morally to other people that is just plain self-righteousness I was reading an experience where there is church is a large meeting and interest every denomination and they are having leaders come to this large gathering and deacons were there and one of the churches was segregated was a couple years back I can use ago and one hundred yuan of the individual churches in this larger denomination was segregated in other words African-Americans could worship there was segregated good response the fish was part of May it will deploy here and and yet do games from this denomination from this church in the donation they were allowed to come to meeting but there was another church is very attributable churches in this denomination are a lot of free autonomy it was another church that had deacons that were practicing homosexuals they came to the meeting they were not committed to commit no notes the difference when church is processing segregation but they can send their representatives doing another church has a deacon whose living a homosexual openly homosexual lifestyle but they can't come legal balance between is on the sexuality worse than segregation I mean they're both wrong and too often in Christianity begin this secure your idea that blinds us to truths the second problem is the problem of denial for us to superiority the second is denial and running by denial too often we think that our lusts are okay but something else is lasts are out imagine probably wouldn't happen anywhere around here because if you are the good people watching football game on would happen and you know a commercial comes on and has most commercials do or there's the cheerleaders in a football game and Debbie makes a comment about how attractive to them cheerleaders that lost to be okay imagine a group of guys sitting around and one of the guys has some sexual tendencies and he sees him they always attractive and he makes a comment to the whole totally different internal reaction is their feet on your face it's more designer neckties talking the other is a customarily sinful lusts of sinful lusts and to think that my lust is okay with someone else's lust isn't is wrong another point that we have another problem with this issue is a very basically it's hatred and that is that there is this underlying anger that the same-sex movement the homosexual movement is making strides for acceptance in society and why Christians feel just angry and talk with hatred about that we can be gauged in the political soon we lobby for laws but if other side is winning that those that battle anger and hatred should not be our response remember we believe in the separation of church and state carry out and the government has socially vague laws and whether it should be okay or not okay for individuals to be of the same sex to be married that's a decision that needs the made in the course I have a moral opinion about that but a political opinion is something else another plaintiff Christians often have is the gear factor I thought to lots of individuals and should like you I don't know any homosexuals what's good happen if I'm around one as if every homosexual predator though there are creditors but there are also creditors that that guy look for victims of the opposite sex as well we need to be aware of those another problem for us is that just the basic coldness of heart that we have as Christians think of individuals suffering from AIDS it's very easy to simply say halo that was their choice we drop it back not the compassionate then you that Jesus had consider these are some of the issues that I think can send you to Christians acting or being perceived at least is being homophobic or judgmental we appear superior we act in a way of denial there is this level of hatred sometimes sometimes we're afraid and sometimes our hearts are just playing cold then you have any questions on that aspect early like to share figure that behavior does not have to define you to find somebody else where defined by being children of God in our behavior can change your our behavior need not find us Christ is the one being children of God can define us only to fit in condemnation of the media you probably remember was about a year ago a young man by the name of Tyler Clementi I use a violinist is very accomplished violinist everybody who hurt him playing the violin was deeply touched by his music on unfortunately his roommate played a very horrific joke on him they remain opened up his computer and how they handle on and was filming in the row and that night Tyler had a friend a male friend over to them were engaging in sexual activities his roommate posted that online came out that Tyler was a homosexuality homosexual engaging in activity and his activities were broadcast online Facebook with our handle that withdrew the George Washington Bridge and jump off until himself acting on Facebook told his friends I'm sorry then killed himself the question for us is if we need to dedicate online and how it came to church that day how do we respond how would we react when we evidence the compassion of Jesus when we got to put his arm around our own rooms am really sorry I heard about this what you know about it I love you or would we be a bit office how he responded in your own heart how would I respond with you encountered the compassion of Christ when the junta mentalism here's the important question is a totally relate to situations where a is a this media was brought audio nurse a website dedicated to spreading God 's word through three seven audio and much more he would like to know more about our universe is like the more so than please visit www. .com universe 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