Favorite Sermon Add to Playlist
Photo of Dennis Priebe

Evangelicals and Adventists Together?

Dennis Priebe

Sponsor

Recorded

  • March 24, 2007
    4:15 PM
Logo of Creative Commons BY-NC-ND 2.0 a.k.a. Music Sharing

Copyright ©2007 Advent HOPE Sabbath School.

Free sharing permitted under the Creative Commons BY-NC-ND 2.0, a.k.a. Music Sharing, license.

The ideas in this recording are those of its contributors and may not necessarily reflect the views of AudioVerse.

SPONSORED

Audio Downloads

This transcript may be automatically generated

father one more time guide our minds and our thoughts as we explore your word and try to find truth we ask in Jesus name amen all right now this afternoon but all appears on your seatbelts and let's see if we can find something that maybe you hadn't thought of before the reason for this message was a review article back in nineteen ninety seven entitled Will the real evangelical Adventist please stand up attention it wasn't by no less than the president of the General conference at that time Robert Falkenberg here's what he said I consider myself a true evangelical Adventist I hope you do too that's always started the article and any spent an article describing things that he concluded I wish everyone in the church where an evangelical Adventist because inherent in the word asbestos should be the concept of evangelical first thing to understand we are not talking about evangelism or evangelistic those are completely different terms yes every have been it should be any evangelistic evidence evangelical is something completely different it has to do with a certain set of beliefs about how one is saved and remain say and that's over to talk about this afternoon the word evangelical thought after this article came out in the Adventist review a letter came into the Adventist review that said this is as a Christian broadcaster at AAR and radio I come into contact with many of other denominations all so evangelical Christians I feel a very definite connection with these dear brothers and sisters as we look at the cross they and I are all saved by faith in Jesus this article gave me the confidence to move forward probably claiming the title of an evangelical Christian thank you Elder Falkenberg for setting my mind at ease so we had encouragement areas the that this is what something we can do another article came along a little later I want to be an evangelical Christian there is something that came along that I thought was very interesting this is an evangelical now former Seventh-day Adventist no longer a Seventh-day Adventist now in evangelical he took this very review that I referred to on his website and he said my words and those of DM can write most likely carry no weight with you DM ten merely sentient part of our century said there is no sanctuary in heaven the sanctuary doctrine is not right essentially what Desmond Ford did later so he said what I'm saying to you add venison one p.m. categorized as you administer caring away with you will you listen to the words of the president of the General conference of Seventh-day Adventists that's how he used that article if you won't listen to me in your list they can write listen to what your president is saying so you see this article had quite an impact in various ways in various forms now one other thing to understand before the nineteen fifties with the phrase evangelical Adventist did not exist if you use it in the thirties of the forties and were stared at you blankly what do you mean Evangelical Advent 's one person just came up to me and between the meetings and said the work event no use where I live in my part of the world and the Evangelical Adventist was the term used in the thirties and forties but somehow after the fifties and some interesting discussions we had with evangelical leaders the term came into some prominence after that time and today evangelical is a word that is used quite often what I'm going to do right now is I'm going to go to an evangelical know what I believe about what he says or any Adventist but I want to know from an evangelical Christian what he understands the term to be so I get it right and I'm not putting words into someone's mouth the evangelical that I'm going to use is a very clear thinker his name is Kenneth samples watermarked for many years was the director of Christian research Institute I think they call it they had a magazine called Christian research Journal and he was the foremost analyzer of the fall 's in religion what is a cult what is a mainstream Christian and he was the one Walter Martin in the fifties that came to Athens as a Manasseh simple question are you a culture are you Christian and was this basic question and he wanted us to get answers to him now watermark passed away and Kenneth samples became the one who followed in his footsteps and again both Walter Martin and Kenneth samples no evidence is very well they understand what that is all about they've held many discussions with Seventh-day Adventists I've spoken in our meetings in our churches they know what Seventh-day Adventists believe and he had a little out a little of the production that he made called an updated assessment of Seventh-day Adventist novices Kenneth samples looking into the seventh they haven't your giving his perspective by the nineteen seventies two distinct factions have emerged within Seventh-day Adventist traditional Adventism which depended many pre- nineteen fifty after this positions and evangelical Adventism which emphasized the Reformation understanding of righteousness by faith Martin Luther John Calvin etc. so evangelical Adventism and traditional Adventism are the names he uses to describe the two differing views of various things and what he did in a very nice succinct way is the identify the main issues which divide evangelical Adventist from what he calls traditional address faith and so I met up with those on the board as we go through this with a clear picture of the first doctrinal issue that he said is crucial to understand his righteousness by faith righteousness by faith righteousness by faith according to an evangelical includes justification only that's very crucial to understand justification only the only thing required for salvation and is a judicial act of God whereby he declares sinners to be just declaring declaring righteous declaring say declaring holy on the basis of Christ's own righteousness sanctification is the accompanying through and not the root of salvation so sanctification will come out of this but it is not a cause of our salvation you are saved by justification alone and sanctification comes along as April I don't laugh down the line it is a fruit and not a root of salvation so that is the first point to clearly understand what is meant by righteousness by faith justification being forgiveness sanctification being growth in holiness forgiveness is salvation growth comes along later number to the human nature of Christ human nature of Christ Jesus Christ was essay sinless human nature with no inclination towards San Christ's human nature was like Adam Adams before the fall so Christ had a sinless nature nature like Adam before the fall so Jesus Christ known tendencies to sin within him no holes from within to overeating to do jealousy to discouragement etc. tempted only from outside never from within right number three eighteen forty four Jesus Christ entered into the most holy place which is heaven itself as his ascension the sanctuary doctrine and the investigative judgment have no basis in Scripture right so Jesus Christ want into the most holy place at his ascension no judgment as we understand that no investigative judgment in Scripture partner for spelling of English way no investigative judgment in Scripture number four sinless perfection is not possible this side of heaven you cannot live without sin in this line no sinlessness possible this side of heaven and number five neither Ellen White nor her writings are infallible and they should not be used as doctrinal authority no doctrinal authority right five major points now of what he understands an evangelical Seventh-day Adventist to believe righteousness by faith justification only Christ a different nature than ours no judgment beginning in eighteen forty four no sinless perfection before Jesus comes and no doctrinal authority and Ellen wife devotional value yes doctrinal authority no right than he did a nice job of identifying what he calls traditional Adventism and Irizarry started it again with righteousness by faith righteousness by faith includes both justification and sanctification now understand again the difference in the evangelical view of justification saves even though sanctification is not doing very well you hope it's doing well you hope your growing but even if you're falling sometimes even of your life comes a lot short as long as you are justified you are saying you can have some bad sanctified apples on the tree and still be say so scientific in the result not a cause in this old justification and sanctification are essential to salvation you cannot have one without the other if one is missing the other is not there either one justification and sanctification are standing before God rest Bolton be imputed and imparted righteousness of Christ God 's work for me and in me so in this view it is both declaring and making righteous God does more than declare us righteous it makes us righteous in the same act of justification not later on in sanctification not five years down the line but right now he both declares and makes us new creatures making righteous as well as declaring righteous element to interrupt right there is 's presentation and asked the question did you get it right did he really identify what Seventh-day Adventists believe because many others are saying right now this is not what we believe this is from Robert Pearson forty died nineteen seventy eight through the years Seventh-day Adventist have basically believed and taught that both justification and sanctification are essential to the salvation process both are essential to our historical position is evidence in Seventh-day Adventist journals reports of meetings on the subject and books by denominational authors these have emphasized Seventh-day Adventists believe that both justification and scientific Asian are essential to salvation in this view justification is like the engine on the train while sanctification is like the caboose that comes along later in this view both justification and sanctification are the engines of the train another little source that we could look at this was a doctrinal statement produced by the leaders of the church in nineteen seventy six a group of church leaders present providing a statement on righteousness by faith Seventh-day Adventists have often use the phrase righteousness by faith theologically to include both justification and sanctification of the words we use righteousness by faith you mean both in that very word righteousness is concerned with justification and sanctification with both imputed righteousness and imparted righteousness so that was a statement made by that time another one this from the editor of the review those who hold sanctification to be a part of righteousness by faith seem to place greater emphasis on holy living than those who excluded they seem to get greater emphases in the humanities part in cooperating with divinity in the plan of salvation this is perhaps because they consider the gospel not merely as the good news that through Christ repentant souls may have a new standing before God but that through him sinners may be transformed standing here transforming here and so another confirmation yes I do think that our friend Kenneth samples got it right when he said that's what I did this have believe this is not something he dreamed up at all all right so number two is human nature of Jesus Christ again remembering were not focusing on his deity all are united on this deity evangelicals that matters were focusing on the human nature of Christ Jesus Christ possessed the human rate nature that was not only weakened by sin but have tendencies toward sin itself his nature was like that of Adam after the fall so here were talking about fallen nature with both weaknesses tendencies of sin this view excludes tendencies within this view allows tendencies to send from within number three eighteen forty four and I think you can guess what this one is Jesus entered in the second apartment of the heavenly sanctuary for the first time on October twenty two eighteen forty four and began an investigative judgment this judgment is the fulfilling of the second phase of crisis atoning work so we put judgment here and we will put final aspect of the atonement in this unity of dramatization of the cross in this view a final aspect of the atonement is involved in the work of Christ in the heavenly sanctuary after eighteen forty four number four perfect commandment keeping is possible and number five per writings are inspired counsel from the Lord and authoritative in doctrinal matters the question is not was Ellen White inspired the question is not was Ellen White AVG received visions from the Lord the question is simple do her writing scary doctrinal authority or not that's the question in this view doctrinal authority is what is the that means that just as in the Bible when they go to the Bible to resolve a problem or a question we say the Bible is the final arbiter of truth if our opinions elsewhere with the Bible we change our opinions it decides not we decide and in the same way when we come to something in the spirit profit you fired by the same Holy Spirit and has the same credentials as John or Paul or Moses then when we come to something in her writings were our opinions don't square with what she has Ruby told us from the Lord that becomes the final arbiter of truth for us also doctrinal authority now after he got done with this excellent summary I thought he really did it exactly right then he said we can reduce all of these are two major differences in the notice to pics were the question of authority was his first major difference in the writings of Ellen White that is the number one major difference between evangelical activists and a traditional happiness in his view in the number to the question of salvation righteousness by faith he said those are the two big areas of difference out of these five between an evangelical Adventist as a traditional Seventh-day Adventist privately read you just a little bit more of what he said as he went on his paper the firing of Desmond Ford who some consider the father of evangelical Adventism which is an quite right Desmond Ford was the fruitage of evangelical activism more than the father of evangelical Adventism there were seeds planted down through the fifties that would grow and bear fruit and some Abbasid questions well it doesn't forgive never come on the scene we wouldn't have these problems would we all yes we were seated in planet and sees always bear fruit it would've been someone else starts before the firing of Desmond Ford led to amass evangelical exodus from the denomination right a number of my pastor friends are no longer pastors in the Seventh-day Adventist church following that time many a many evangelical Adventist the leaders and Bible teachers were fired or forced to resign because they supported Ford's theology then he said this it appears that there are still large numbers of that business who are of evangelical persuasion but certainly not as vocal after glacier view and that's exactly what happened the ones who remain believing in that theology went underground he wrote this would be a good debate for this is nineteen eighty eight and for about the ten years it was underground but guess what things that go underground don't stay underground and in the last ten years we've seen a resurfacing of all of these ideas from the most unusual places we could ever imagine the ones we have trusted the ones we have listened to been blessed by and we believe with all of our heart the messages they have shared with us over the years and all of a sudden repairing these messages from their lips strange things are happening today in Athens is and then he concluded by saying traditional Adventism is at least aberrant confusing or compromising biblical truth so if you believe this you confused Bible truths and say and then here is his appeal remembering again that Kenneth samples is not trying to attack the Seventh-day Adventist church we have to keep that in mind he is trying to help us as Seventh-day Adventists become more balanced is trying to help us under zero zowie helps us to the traditional camp continues in its departure from questions on doctrine and in promoting Ellen White as the church is infallible interpreter then they could one day be fully deserving of the title call in his implication is I don't want to do that you administer my brothers and sisters in Christ we took you off the call list back in the fifties because you move in our direction and yet there were some of you hard-liners in Woodinville our direction and you're still arguing these points if you continue to push these points will have to put you back in the health category we don't want to that's what is saying to us that's what is saying to us it is his appeal to help us not go down the road now in nineteen ninety he wrote an article for Christianity today called the recent truth about Seventh-day Adventist and here are few of his thoughts at that time much of the doctrinal controversy that emerged in Adventism in the last several decades can be traced to their interaction with evangelicals in the nineteen fifties that's a key point from an evangelical perspective a number of us and in saying that the reason all your making too much of it it really all wasn't that big a deal back in nineteen fifties that wasn't that critical that the relationship the direction of the Adventist church leaders and evangelical much of the doctrinal controversy can be traced back to nineteen fifteenths many said that questions on doctrine which was the book that came out of that repudiated such commonly held traditional Adventist doctrines as the notion that Christ had inherited human nature affected by the fall repudiated an understanding that last day believers would achieve sinless perfection questions on doctrine now again from an evangelical perspective some of us stand and we get it by saying well were just cut of the old for our own glasses we don't see it right from an evangelical questions on doctrine was a clear statement of what would later be known as evangelical Adventism write simple to the point a clear statements right was the wealthy and say evangelical abdomens were united in their understanding of righteousness by faith it was justification only sanctification was but the accompanying fruits and then he listed the some of the main representatives of this group I would be given the Navy name to get into trouble but remember he said that cited some of the main representatives of this group were RAF nurse and he was involved he was the editor of ministry magazine he was involved in the discussions in the nineteen fifties with the various other ones Edward had to install we call in the Dean of the seminary at it another way and when we say Deena Dean of Adventist theologians trained I sat in his classes almost all Adventist minister said in his glasses Robert brings me Desmond Ford spots than Ryan even Hans Laura Doughty listen that list for some of you might know then he said a vocal and perfectionistic segment within traditional Adventism that's over here Al Qaeda us that's me by a vocal and perfectionistic segment within traditional Adventism has classified evangelical Adventism as a new theology which destroys Adventism 's true identity and you've all heard about for that for new theology came from is the expression of this writing this set of beliefs as a new to Adventism not when we have been the new theology and then one more little bit of analysis where we get into trouble if we say but listen to what he said in the nineteen fifties and nineteen sixties many of the students began receiving graduate degrees from non- Adventist University Adventist scholars were influenced by modern biblical criticism and liberal theology again from an evangelical perspective please understand looking and analyzing what is happening in the Seventh-day Adventist church I thought that that was of some importance to try to understand what is happening today in Seventh-day Adventist now one more little bit of perspective Hank Hannah Graf radio personality also understands Adventism fairly well its questions and he has a little article entitled Seventh-day Adventist Christian or cultic right we do not believe that it adventures and should be classified as a call right so you're not on his cult list but it is possible to be a Seventh-day Adventist and a true follower of Jesus despite certain distinctive Adventist doctrines which we consider to be on biblical notice carefully they will tolerate our belief in the seventh day Sabbath they will tolerate our belief in baptism by immersion they will tolerate our belief in the literal coming of Jesus Christ not a secret rapture they will tolerate soul sleep not the immortality of the soul but they will not tolerate these doctrines this is the cutting-edge difference they will allow those doctrines and say well were just not quite with the rest of the churches on these things but this is what we must abandon it we will be Christian and not a call what is tolerated what is not tolerated to see that he says there are some ultra- traditional Adventists emphasizing almost exclusively Adventist distinctive doctrines our research indicates however that mainstream Adventism is primarily evangelic no clue what is research and I don't know what the statistics are but that's what he said our research indicates that mainstream Adventism is primarily evangelical I can only go by gut feeling that's all I got done though statistical analysis here I think even more right than wrong I think he's more right than wrong party who is this this is Hank Hannah Graf Hank Canada graph CRI perspective of a radio broadcaster it is our sincere hope now again writing just like candles samples it is our sincere hope that this church body which has historically been a mixture of Orthodox and aberrational doctrine will move toward an even more sounding evangelical position of the way from some of its stock doctrinal errors of its practice to give you again we want to welcome you into the body of Christ we want to move you away from some of your extreme positions and we want you to be a part of the mainstream of Christianity one last little point on this overall is a summary watermark before he died was in a little nervous about the discussions that were to have taken place in the nineteen fifties because he didn't think we were carrying through on those discussions he was afraid that maybe some of our leaders were reneging on the concessions that is been made so that we would be taken out of the cult category so he wrote to the General conference calling for the conferences public and official statement reaffirming or denying the authority of questions on doctrine when you believe you told us this back in the fifties you put in print and questions on doctrine what you believe today and he did this in the nineteen eighty four or thereabouts what you believe is that it is today he got a letter from the Vice President of the General conference it would later become president of Andrews University Doctor leisure you ask if Seventh-day Adventist still stand behind the answers given to your questions in questions on doctrine as they did in nineteen fifty seven the answer is yes so do you stand behind the compromises that were made in nineteen fifty seven and the answer was yes we support questions on doctrine which in the samples that was the clearest expression of evangelicalism in Adventism exult in the nineteen eighty five edition of water Martinsville Athens is and is not in the cult category because he got the answer you wanted that we still stand behind the questions on doctrine but he did have us in the appendix section under the caption the puzzle of Seventh-day Adventist in which he says the turbulence within Adventism is more expensive than any turmoil in the organization 's history let's be real there is never been such turmoil in the Adventist churches we've seen in the last twenty years never not even not even in the nineteen hundreds when that pantheism was wreaking its toll upon Adventism was even close to what we're experiencing today got one more little tidbit back in those early days after nineteen fifty one Houston worked with Martin and talking to us I said that he and Walter Martin had written and signed statements by leaders of the Seventh-day Adventist movement that Dave Mark Townsend Martin had not misinterpreted Seventh-day Adventist physicians he claimed that everything he had published in regard to add that this was read by Seventh-day Adventist leaders before being published so they were doing their level best not to misrepresent everything we made sure that the leaders of that he administered said this is what we want you to say and then he commented on the book questions on doctrine to an individual he said my house again he said in a very nice way the leaders who have written this book have to move from the traditional position of the Seventh-day Adventist movement leaders had moved he said and then he told this person let's face that you said this person on arrival article saying let's face the fact that we Adventists have an error in our fundamental positions let's abandon them and go forward to truth at the barn house wanted us to say just admit we got the errors and let's move toward a better truth all rights five points abilities now I'm not can take time to go through all five would be here to midnight but I'm going to deal with the first two in this area those are the two am going to focus on this afternoon the first two in understanding this but also found very interesting is I got a little brochure right here seminar opening night October fifteen seven p.m. this afternoon via nineteen ninety nine when Doug Batchelor was presenting his millennium of prophecy seminar in nineteen ninety nine and it was going to be broadcast at this particular church and Adventist church not more than fifty miles from here and and this was going to be the major evangelistic emphasis for that year in that Church Doug bachelor 's millennium of prophecy seminar you know they invited to be the keynote speaker on opening night of this evangelistic presentation that Doug Batchelor would then have my satellite channel samples was the opening speaker on the opening night of the Doug bachelor crusade to win souls to Christ I thought that was fascinating now what about the differences here and what difference do they make now I'm going to read from a a book called Evangelicals and Catholics together just right of the title for my message back you know a few years ago it was amazing that some of us to see that evangelicals axis and others were linking together with X on some issues like abortion and pornography and prayer in schools and stuff like that so this book was entitled Evangelicals and Catholics together in this they describe just a little bit about what they believe about righteousness by faith we affirm that the righteousness of Christ by which we are justified is counted reckoned or imputed to us by the legal declaration of God no imparted righteousness only declared righteousness declaring us righteous we affirm that while all believers are indwelt by the Holy Spirit and are in the process of being made holy these consequences of justification are not a trial to see they all believe in being made holy they all believe in obedience they all believe in the Holy Spirit but not as a requirement for salvation as a result of being say in other words you are not saved by imparted righteousness you are not saved by sanctification and believe it or not you are not saved by the new birth because the new birth is important the new birth is making you righteous and so the new birth is the result of salvation not the cause of salvation you begin to see what that might do well when then should the new birthday place I've been saying I accepted Jesus as my Savior I was more struck that at this moment I do say a true and perfect place but they later in our later a year later when do we expect the new birthday again it is not for salvation as a result of salvation and all sorts of interesting things come out of that kind of thinking if you believe that the new birth is a result of salvation we affirm that saving faith results in sanctification the transformation of life in growing conformity to Christ through the power of the Holy Spirit and here please note the reason sanctification is excluded is because sanctification is seen as mostly human effort you do this you do that you don't do this you don't do that you change your diet to keep the Sabbath you do the all these things and ostriches and a little help as some of them put it is 50-50 it's fifty percent human effort and fifty percent off rates you see why they excluded from righteousness by faith because there's not you can have human effort in righteousness by faith area right of the legalism and works of the law so because they believe that sanctification is largely human effort with a little help from Christ they excluded from the ground of salvation that's their basis for saying that sanctification is a result of salvation not a cause of salvation okay I've been very theological to this point let's get practical what are the practical results of believing in this understanding of righteousness by faith in again a review article if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness is quoted but doesn't each mistake in some way unraveled the court of acceptance by Christ the question is being asked there is when you sin do you lose your saving relationship with Jesus Christ and the answer that is given and very familiar statement from the books after Christ you heard it the character is revealed not by occasional good deeds and occasional misdeeds but by the tendency of the habitual words and acts so what is the answer to the question when we send it we lose our saving relationship with Jesus Christ for not asking the question here is God sees the lots is the Holy Spirit 's work for us were asking the question do we lose our salvation standing with God when we sent and the answer is no it's not an occasional good date is not occasional misdeeds if the tendency of the individual words and acts so you slip but your tendency is upward you're still say in your slips because the tendency is upward that has been the most common statement from Ellen White's writings to prove that justification is declared not site and does not include sanctification so I said let's look at that statement will more carefully what is the sentence before it and what is the sense after that say statement in steps to Christ here's the sentence before if the heart has been renewed by the spirit of God the life will bear witness to the fact that the hardest and change the life will show then comes this statement the character is revealed not by occasional good deeds and occasional mestizos by the tendency of individual words and acts as our initial character in the next thing sentence our lives will reveal whether the grace of God 's dwelling within us I change will be seen in the character the habits the pursuits the contrast will be clear and decided between what they have been and what they are so how can you tell if you got a born-again experience your words but by a change in your life your life will be different and that will be the evidence that change took place in your heart not by an occasional good new or even an occasional misdeed that you do this you will you will know if you had a born-again experience by the difference in your life afterwards that Ellen White is dealing with here is the question how can I tell if I been born again at the question the tendency of a life not occasional good needle five thousand dollars in the offering plate to prove you're a Christian nor occasional missed the tendency and your life will show Soviet question how can I tell by the tendency of the life not occasional good deeds and misdeeds does not describe or deal with at all the current salvation standing of a person who is sending out what is talking about is talking about how you don't get a born-again experience back on July twenty five nineteen ninety four you doubt that really happen it's not addressing the question today if I stand why Stan saved or lost not even address their question is how can I tell if I've been born again how can I test that claim are this put into practical terms good old David we know his story had David been born again how can fail when the life thirty alas but watch it to David always do things right out there in the wilderness running from Saul didn't he lie about his condition he pretended to be insane nevertheless story he got the high priest and the horrible troubled in the salt and slaughter them all they did and do everything right out there he had an occasional misdeed out of the wilderness in the butt was he born again how could you tell the tendency of individual words and acts not by an occasional good beer occasional missed the you have been born again no question about it all his life showed a and the Lord blessed them so that's the question with a dependency of his act now here's the real point when he was involved in this occasional misdeed with Bathsheba if you do that without the normal all at one time we rated it anything close to that and then not only doing that the murder of Uriah has what is her husband is what he did the murder here in the get is why that's again occasional messy court he justified on the King and I didn't really touch them I just put them in front of the battle and well you know that was a occasional missed the that was an occasional mistake that happened all the time that the question is when he was involved in this occasional misdeed with Bathsheba excusing and rationalizing what he had done was he in a saving relationship with Jesus Christ and heavenly father and that becomes the question of discussion right here these two gospels look at two different answers to this question clearly understand these two Gospels give different answers at David and justify what we just said yes he had been justified is sanctification and were dealing with this only is sanctification necessary for salvation no David had a terrible sanctification apple on his justification tree with Bathsheba and Uriah but that's not the point he had been justified he had been saying he had been declared righteous sanctification wasn't working so well this sanctification was not operating for that period of time and by the way of the body dear we understand that David defended rationalize and excuse this temporary approximately a year until finally God sent Nathan to save you can get David here is someone to tell you the problem and Nathan hit them between the eyes and all of a sudden David it dawned on him what it really done a year of defending his sin and yet the evangelical gospel will say I tested this in class and in meetings just like this the evangelical gospel will save David was justified during that entire year he was in a saving relationship with Christ because he had been justified even though he was rebelling against God by excusing his sin he was a saving relationship are I do not believe that the spirit of prophecy clearly says David was lost during that year not even a question David was lost when what he is we believe this gospel when Woody again be saved in a saving relationship with the Lord when he fell on his knees and said Lord I am a man as Nathan pointed out to me I have taken that precious lamb that one he had us all he had and I killed it I am the man after Nathan confronted him he returned to a saving relationship so do see the point now statement from Ellen White says that David had a true born-again experience habitual tendency of his life show that but the statement from Ellen why is not even addressing the issue was David Sager lost while committing a sin with that Bathsheba and derided itself the statement from steps to Christ doesn't address that subject you have to go elsewhere to find an answer to that subject and she does address that subject than other places she says when there is sin in the heart Christ is not there the Holy Spirit is not there and get the same old there this is one of the most misused statements in my judgment on the spirit of prophecy and relating to justification righteousness by faith the say that this means you can be saved while sending pathways use I wrote this down these are my words because of a false gospel based on misinterpretations of Romans seven and this paragraph from steps to Christ driven by a desperate need to feel say while experiencing more than occasional misdeeds some believe that David was in the same condition all during assembly Bathsheba and many believe that we are in a safe condition while participating in known sin that's where this gospel is becoming mainstream in Adventism false assurance of salvation I also wrote is currently the most serious error in righteousness by faith being taught in Adventism fifty years ago the most serious error and that invisibles legalism works righteousness as it was no longer not today the pendulum swung clear over from that to a false assurance of salvation and I believe this false assurance doctrine will cause the eternal salvation of hundreds of thousands perhaps millions of Seventh-day Adventist church members who trust what they hear and they read that's how serious I believe this problem is to believe this gospel is to believe a false assurance of salvation in my understanding so that's right think the rubber hits the road where the theology comes into real day-to-day practice what we are doing Ellen White has commented signs of the Times December thirteen eighteen ninety nine their constant stumbling and falling notice not just occasional often stumbling and falling revealed that they have not maintained the Stern conflict with their besetting sins they have not depended wholly upon Christ's from the constant stumbling and falling means there's a spiritual problem there must be a forsaking of the sins the Lord has reproved before the soul can stand acquitted before God humbled and repented forsaking proceeds except according to the spirit of prophecy signs of the Times December thirteen eighteen ninety nine now again our brother had a draft set of this is becoming mainstream Adventism Adventist review May nineteen ninety seven article entitled shocked by Isaiah fifty three starts out this way how a person can be born into the Adventist church raised in the Adventist church educated at from cradle roll graduate school and still not understand the most basic doctrine of biblical Christianity justification by faith alone that's a challenge how can you be in administer not understand editing is the most basic doctrine of Christianity justification by nothing else is more basic yet we have all the right beliefs on the Sabbath state of the bed and the wrong legal justification you got nothing justification and salvation brings me the challenge is right when he said we are judged by the Gospel we preach not by the Sabbath with each of the Gospel we preach he said the Adventist church has in recent years made great strides in understanding justification by faith alone especially as taught in the Pauline epistles all right sizes we had we really improved our understanding of justification now what does he mean how we improve what he does in us sanctification and what he has done for us justification are still to do the gospel that must be careful theologically distinct unwisely insisting on that that these two aspects justification and sanctification must be capped theologically distinct here's why the new birth and the new life aren't what save us rather they are what happened after we become say you are saved by the new birth the new birth happens after your say your say by justification which is I believe in Jesus Christ I accept his death on the cross in place of mine and I ask forgiveness for my sense that's justification happens after that once we accept what Christ has accomplished for us we accept his righteousness that he has declared us righteous we go from condemnation to accept them so we are accepted now were saying from alienation to reconciliation and visa legal transformations legal transformations declared righteous lead to a born again experience we've been saying and that leads us to the new birth as a result somewhere down the line again my problems is how much down the line where why when were no longer condemned by God that change begins with the new birth no more combination we didn't say then the new birth as a later product of no longer condemn that's how he says we need to understand justification by faith basis how can we not understand that we didn't want to raise in the Adventist church all these years and we can understand this basic truth about justification that's his appeal and then I read on why without regeneration through faith in his blood there is no remission of sins regeneration River interchange archangel making righteous making righteous without regeneration there is no remission of sins this gospel says there is remission of sins before regeneration of two different Gospels not just different words how I wish it were semantics these are two different Gospels that references price object lessons one twelve and one thirteen he said this in another article he writes a regular column for the Adventist review redemption is not something that happens in us but something that happened for us in Jesus redemption has never been nor even is now in ourselves it happens and exists only in Christ not about what happens in us it's about what happens what happened in Christ two thousand years ago and then a very strange column that came along later victories that I should have had long ago have been more distant and faint galaxies spiritual goals seem as unreachable as childhood fantasies I do things now I might not have once done rationalizing my actions in the name of spiritual maturity or freedom in the gospel no the problem is in my mind but my heart which is grown cold in comparison to those earliest days when my face burned with the sacred fire I found that an amazing call reflecting on his inward experience and how it changed from when you first come to Christ this gospel doesn't keep a fire alive very strong I'm afraid it's justification alone we can't really change another one same author life was so much simpler then when truth and error were so easily distinguishable the older I get that which was once black and white has at times more into shades of gray which leads to my dilemma the great controversy between Christ and Satan is a pure black and white affair there's no middle ground between Christ and say no gray areas no compromise is your righteousness versus pure evil now if ideally I'm growing in grace growing in truth getting closer to the Lord the graves should be morphing into black and white not vice versa right in the ultimate issues are without shades shouldn't the world appear to be more and more without shades to as I grow closer to the ideal instead the opposite is happening amazing statements about all how that early clarity is now becoming vague and unclear and uncertain and victories are there and I'm amazed that he would put in print roommates I know you want to know who it is a lonely say it is the one who is contributed the most in recent years through the adult Sabbath school quarterly that you are studying week by week and quarter by quarter John Carter and Russian evangelistic meetings was quoted by one of his helpers everything God demands of me was accomplished on the cross everything God demands of me was accomplished at the Crofts at this gospel right here although the cross I just accepted finish I am not getting ready I am ready words from him how different that is from the words of a hundred years ago by Aji Jones listened and speaking with the ten Commandments except any doing from anybody who comes short of God 's own idea of what is right no then they simply require such a measure of right to the online measure that is will express is when the ten commands to accept nothing short of that power the requirements of the demand must be met in any man's life was not the mind of God the question is how can anyone keep the ten Commandments the answer of evangelical gospel is Christ UK except is that statement in his light in place of yours that's the evangelical gospel we can't keep the ten Commandments Christ did for us believe that that is imputed to credited to your account this is what a few Jones then is it possible for any man to render to the ten Commandments what only they will accept without having the mind of Jesus Christ itself therefore it follows that I must have the personal presence of Christ himself how to resolve it normally something declared two thousand years ago but by the presence of Christ dwelling in our hearts today to accomplish what he did in Jesus Christ two thousand years ago that's the answer of a D Jones a century ago and it is almost lost today because now we are saying we can't Jesus Christ in our place that's all we can hope for different answers in different eras of time in the Seventh-day Adventist church all right that's what I wanted to share with you about the practical difference between these two Gospels in justification and sanctification I'll spend a little bit more time on the second item here Jesus Christ and his nature let's see here is the first point that I want to share with you about the rights material quickly the urine what was that in questions on doctrine although born in the flesh Jesus was exempt from the inherited passions and pollutions that corrupt the natural descendents of that that's questions on doctrine he was exact from the inherited passions that corrupt the natural descendents about that were exempt is very significant the word exactly used by Cardinal Gibbons in the fate of our fathers referring to marry she alone was exempt from the original taint of sin example see the issue is very simple Christ can't be a center in inheriting a sinful nature makes on the center of any act of some exemption so the Catholic Church solvent by having Mary exact if Mary gets a sinless nature and of course Jesus gets a sinless nature from her well the Protestants rejected the exemption of Mary but guess what Protestants anabolism have had an exemption for Jesus as we got the same problem and so Jesus has to have an exemption here not the same as we are on the me share some other things here that might be of some help to us this was what Leroy Froom who essentially wrote the book questions on doctrine said how was Jesus born a divine creative miracle brought to pass this new union of Godhead which humanity begun in the womb of Mary the human element was not determinative in that origin Mary didn't have anything to do with Jesus nature she didn't pass on any genes to Jesus the human element was not determinative in the origin of Jesus birth in other words you have created nature God re-created in Jesus a nature like you created in that Jesus Major was not inherited that was the answer and questions on doctrine at that time now some saw clearly that that really wasn't biblical or faithful to the spirit of prophecy and so they said no that's going too far there was no exemption here you can't do that you can't say that Mary had nothing to do with Jesus so we came up with another solution and this is the current solution Jesus receives nature from marrying someone you don't weakness and got tiredness begot mortality he was able to suffer he was hungry he could feel pain and all those things from his mother but he was exempt from tendencies the selfishness tendencies deprived tendencies the appetite tendencies to discouragement tendencies the last all you name he was exempt from all those holes that you and I have towards send out which are the more serious which is the more serious of the human problem the tendency to weakness pain and suffering for the tendency to selfishness pride and anger there's no comparison is there so the new understanding which replaces the old questions on doctrine understanding has Christ inheriting a partly exempt nature not completely exempt but partly fallen and partly unfallen the difference is made between two words innocent infirmities and sinful tendencies he got innocent infirmities but no sinful tendencies and this is the current answer being taught throughout all of our colleges and universities right this is the official Adventist answer to the understanding of Christ inherited nature at this point and all that is is the root this one will notice not totally examined but partially exempt in all the areas that matter and that counts and that are relevant if you ever hear the word Henry Melville stuck that way in the back of your mind that was an Anglican clergyman of a century ago who first came up with this concept and we have adopted it wholesale strange place to get it from you know what sometimes we call them babble and Beltway when he read something from those in Babylon Doctor Harry Johnson 's book the humanity of the Savior fallen human nature was assumed by the son of God at the incarnation right out of Babylon my friends Karl Barth probably the greatest Protestant theologian of our time either resulted so much of his stuff there must be no weakening or obscuring of the saving truth that the nature which God assumed in Christ is identical with our nature as we see it in the light of all CEP Cranfield author of one of the most respected Bible commentaries on Romans in the international critical commentary we understand Paul's thought Paul's thought to be that the son of God assumed the selfsame fallen human nature that is our racketeering very well good scholars from outside Adventism who understand clearly that the Bible teaches no exemptions for Christ that he inherited human nature as a package not partial exemptions not half exemptions but human nature from Mary understand from their understanding whatever inherited whatever Mary could give to Jesus so we have some very clear statements that seem to be neglected by those two are doing this kind of thinking today and happened to all right what else do I share with you here maybe that's enough on that point now Kenneth samples a great job I really think you did a great job be analyzed clearly the distinction the distinction between these two but he forgot one thing he didn't put in the undergirding bottom line that makes all this logical and makes sense and you know the undergirding issue is why in the world are we condemned in the first place my God why are we sinners received are two different answers here once again of why we stand condemned by God and this is underneath the presuppositions in this view salmon is the nature we inherit that her inheritance in this view sin you are that is the choice we make based on that inheritance all right and you know in Adventism we are really talking about this in the share what I mean by that we can't quite understand which it is is it our inheritance or is it our charts I found this in the Adventist review in an article on homosexuality the apostle James recognizes the distinction between orientation and behavior only in the arena of moral choices and behavioral responses to one's inclinations is sand or the resistance of it possible by God 's grace inclination alone does not constitute sin so if you have an inclination toward this problem you have something that looked into that will push a few that will pull at you but you do not see I know you make choices and behavioral responses so then you the choice to participate in that behavior not be inherited old for that behavior another one is by the editors of the Adventist review we draw a sharp distinction between homosexual tendencies and homosexual activity on biblical grounds we support people who struggled with the former tendencies but we reject the practice clear statement is not clear statement so it is the choice that we may that determines whether we are in sin against God not the tendency that is inherited in an article on cloning humankind did inherit something from Adam and Eve that is sometimes called fallen human nature and Dennis are careful not to confuse a tendency to send within itself great stuff attendance data center the temptation the decision to Santa is a choice you make about that tendency as I read these things I said that's clear that's precise and then in a response from a pastor in Oklahoma to this article that I just read of course a tendency to sand is sand itself because it means that at least part of a person desires to send so if there is a pull within you there's a part of you that wants to go that way and that is San store now back to nature the pool is your sin not the choice to carry it out well you see the only one who kind of thought that way here is an article in an editorial from one of the review editors if I keep on living in the world I will also commit mistakes and sins especially in those three areas I feel most sure of myself so you can really overcome sin now here's another one there is a question that came in the review are we accountable for immoral dreams I hate the things I dream and the answer from a Vice President of the General conference morality is ascribed to voluntary thoughts and actions these dreams may be sad or regrettable but they do not meet the definition of sin because there is no moral or conscious choice involved pretty good answer not a choice part of our nature part of a subconscious thing working away that we don't know and then Ian had very next sentence but of course transgression is not the only definition of sin sin is also and in fact and in the first instance a state of being right after he said it's not sin because there is no moral conscious choice that he said but that's not the only definition of sin it's a statement were born in and that's why there's a problem there I found an interesting comment from Ellen White when there is any excuse for a seemingly wrong act is not sin line excuse for bringing a dream I've no control over seems to me it seems to me that we are confused on the subject is another one what is meant by the expression we are sinners even when we are not sending we are sinners even when we are not sending same vice president answering this question these words were coined by the early church man Augustine we are sinners even when we are not sending and then he said however and they said we added these words coined by the early church met on you are not found in the Bible or the writings of Ellen July however the principle is very biblical and clearly supported in the Council martyred prophet that we are sinners even when we are not sending falling humanity even converted fallen humanity never loses its fallenness the internal urges to send that humanity acquired after the first transgression this is our basic disqualifier for heaven why are you going to get out of heaven basically because you got a bad package from the fallen humanity that you still have today after being converted the internal urges the sin build those things disqualify you from heaven you are a sinner by nature but I'm finding as I said is tremendous confusion on the subject of why we stand condemned by God in enforcing why are we sinners before God sometimes we sent this way sometimes we say at this way very logically this view fits with this understanding that's wife's justification only because you'll be sending by nature until Jesus comes as my colleague Desmond Ford was very fond of saying I sent a thousand times a day time watched him and even the more upright life than I could ever think of I was a young teacher at that time he was the experienced teacher he never lost his temper he was kind he was fair he was everything a teacher should be and here he says I sent a thousand times a day what is the meaning I have a fallen nature and the thousand times a day and I can never get rid of that fallen nature until Jesus comes therefore I have to hold the umbrella of justification over my head until I am transformed in nature then I will stop sending my major justification only sanctification can't be included because sanctification is never complete in this life it never works one hundred percent that's why this has to follow from this and of course this has to follow from this estate is our nature Christ have to be exempted and of course then there can be no sinlessness until Jesus comes because I will be sending by nature after the close of probation and I will not have sinlessness until the second coming of course that Ellen White to have doctrinal authority because he teaches and was this before the close of probation so you can't you can't have her with doctrinal authority and that messes up investigative judgment as well because what will you Josh please pray tell Sabbath keeping type pain loss of temper those are sanctification issues you can only judge justification and if you have accepted Jesus Christ you are justified and we can't judge anything else so you see that this doctrine makes all of this work this is really the engine that drives the train this is the engine of all these other cars of the strength if you really send his choice then there can be justification and sanctification declaring and making righteous Christ taking our fallen nature a judgment of our sanctifying work 's sinless before the second coming and Alan White with full doctrinal authority that's the part that symptoms samples that the dress and let the kind of vague is why all these things should be like taking a long time this afternoon it's a just a little good more time to your enjoy this this was an article in Newsweek magazine in nineteen ninety eight by the religion editor of Newsweek magazine Kenneth Woodward nineteen ninety eight entitled sex sin and salvation but if he's right our president Bill Clinton listen carefully when the class of nineteen sixty three graduated from Hot Springs high school the student chosen to give the benediction was a born-again Baptist named William Jefferson Clinton dear Lord Clinton began now we must prepare to live only by the guide of our own faith and character directives the knowing care what is right and wrong so that we will be victorious in this life and rewarded in the next now thirty five years later Clinton sense of right and wrong is very much the issue as he tries to atone both spiritually and politically for his sexual sins in his latest step on the road to repentance the president recently sent a letter to his Baptist Church in Little Rock seeking the congregation 's forgiveness acknowledging the letter Rex Horne said that Clinton expressed repentance for his actions that is for the consequences of sin on his family friend on his family friends and church family and asked forgiveness from the membership making such a request is all the Southern Baptist tradition requires the sinners whose transcriptions become public both the public and the private man cannot be fully understood without grasping the nuances of his Baptist upbringing watch carefully he was born again on October seventeen nineteen fifty six when he marched up the aisle alone at Park Place Baptist Church in Hot Springs to accept Jesus Christ as his personal Lord and Savior he was seven years old in his youth he walked alone to church and Sunday school carrying his Bible he joined the choir and this they weeps when singing old Baptist favorites his best speeches are like Baptist sermons but Clinton's troubled personal life and his repeated verbal evasions also bears a distinctive Baptist staff please read the word evangelical right there is Baptist is the foremost promoter you don't know possible like most Baptist Clinton was taught that because he had been born again his salvation is assured sending even repeatedly would not bar his soul from heaven key point David Bill Clinton same issue same issue for full-blooded youths like the adolescent Clinton these Baptist doctrines offered considerable room for maneuvering through the sexual revolution of the nineteen sixties you went to church to meet girls recalls Texas Baptist David Solomon had with a girl you listen to Billy Graham on the car radio Sunday night before getting around what she really had in mind what Jesus seemed to be telling imaginative Baptist teenagers was that they were worked out their own personal rules permitting some forms of sexual experience without feeling guilty Clinton's adult sexual behavior fits this adolescent pattern many of his coreligionists believe the president spoke Baptist truth when he testified that he did not have sex with Monica Lewinsky no sex in short regional adultery a workman that he had to use regarding his inappropriate behavior what he did is disgusting but not what I would consider adultery said the head of the Southern Baptist Christian life commission and I think that most Baptists would agree he said the nation 's first Baptist certainly seems to do agree and he formed his worldview not in the dark of a Saturday night but in the life Sunday more on what an article on an article in other words salvation while sending as long as you justify this later sorry okay eventually say you're sorry when you finally caught out of the evidence is all in an guesswork out of it as they are sorry okay sanctification reason for the picture justification is all that matters evangelical theology allows salvation while knowingly sending that sixty F-16 have to understand that having said all that and I have said some rather discouraging things here I have said that evangelicalism is becoming mainstream in the Seventh-day Adventist church I said that this is becoming more and more seen as ultra conservatism fanaticism legalism names applied to all this really I want to end on not everyone has been blown away by the evangelical statements not everyone this ministry magazine article biblical passages that deal specifically with judgment tell us that we are judged by our behavior God will receive into his eternal kingdom those who made obedience to his will the most important goal of their life reason Seventh-day Adventist stress on righteousness by faith involving a neglect the civic obedience may well be an overreaction to a traditional legalistic emphasis on obedience and activism spats that's all it is overreaction to legalism produces carelessness and Jeep grand once again the pendulum has swung too far the postmodern theological drift throughout Protestantism toward deemphasizing obedience while dwelling on the theme of God 's love and mercy your lot about God 's love and mercy and very little these days about obedience another article this time in the Adventist review now that we have been thoroughly convinced that were saved by grace alone we've been hearing that for a long time now I say a long time at least twenty years of the Seventh-day Adventist church if you're in the age category of twenty to thirty you've heard it all your life grace grace grace and love we has something called race link don't wait inside the school lessons grace grace now that we've been thoroughly convinced that were saved by grace alone is there not a growing tendency to be careless about her behavior doesn't the same grace that saves us from the guilt of sin also give victory over the power and practice of sin no doctrine is more clearly enunciated throughout God 's word than that of the absolute necessity of obedience and holiness is still a prerequisite for heaven mercy does not bypass them it means sin head-on without excuse it deals with stand at the sin and not as a mere mistake or an indiscretion and one last article from a young pastor in Texas as activists are we heading toward a theological ditch I'm thinking in particular of what is being called evangelical Adventism with its emphasis on justification by faith to the point of neglecting holiness and the fruits of the indwelling spirit Dietrich von offer called it cheap grace as outside of Adventism cheap grace after all the preaching on justification by faith alone how many people in the church are living holier more obedient than Christlike life now than ten years ago we must stop swinging back and forth in RT gene over correcting in one decade the older corrections of the previous decade it's time to straighten this car out we must teach the gospel in its fullness not just pieces of so don't give up hope my friends the gospel is not yet dead and Adventism this is struggling on life support that life support is the Holy Spirit and those of us who will let the Holy Spirit speak to our voices were silent this gospel will take over the Seventh-day Adventist church I have dedicated the last twenty years of my life to stopping that from happening and I like and I want you to join with me give you feel that this is the true gospel of Adventism listen this gospel is only known within the Seventh-da

Share

Embed Code

Short URL

http://audiover.se/1APOGaF