Favorite Sermon Add to Playlist
Photo of John Jovan Markovic

04-Spirituality or Religiosity? Why It Matters?

John Jovan Markovic

Presenter

John Jovan Markovic

Professor of Modern European and Church History, Andrews University

Conference

Recorded

  • January 2, 2014
    3:15 PM
Logo of Creative Commons BY-NC-ND 3.0 (US)

Copyright ©2014 Generation of Youth for Christ.

Free sharing permitted under the Creative Commons BY-NC-ND 3.0 (US) license.

The ideas in this recording are those of its contributors and may not necessarily reflect the views of AudioVerse.

SPONSORED

Audio Downloads

This transcript may be automatically generated

for him to the delay will only be there when Manny gained even and were going I wanted to like this visit us online at www. team I see when I know you Lord Bernstein growth rate and summarize what happened reviews visions minor new job Barton 's repeated end verse three I got involved in this research for the last thirty seven years in it would be emergent church on expanded into what is known today as emergence Christianity in the first session I talk about what the emerging church is trying to fairly represent than what they believe what they do what the reasons behind it and so on of course I buy a to have either critical and emergent church movement but I try to do it enough they had an honest way for this will be believed now let's analyze and discuss in relation to we are recently 's second presentation I think of it because the idea of the emerging church I found out existed way before the emergent church came into existence in two thousand and the ACL tear merchant church was in the existence since the nineteen sixties that led me to the second Vatican Council and I gave a presentation on what happened the second Vatican Council and what made the Catholic Church and the Council make a drastic change in attitude I is related to the second world and the world that lead us to a person on who is credited with the most without changing his name is Peter coyote persona both the Jesuit theologian at the same time a well-known scientist owl ontology and the geology and the accused were and the readings in the works over words and select me to a Mulder subject and that is the subject though will do and so we did discuss the subject of session three now we are coming to a Melissa subject which I think it's an important and at the same time very sensitive and therefore that is prayer contemplation meditation spiritual formation mysticism and salt let us pray thank God for these they then asked the president will go into a new father thank you for this day but now we need your help I need your help because help is to say the right things help us understand the subject matter so that you may become faithful to Jesus remained faithful to the estrogen I have to apologize the same time I rarely I often when I teach a university I make sure that the voltage core classes enroll in one day this is a fourth hour and my voice is already sensitive those of you who been witness to the first one I am getting tired of this fourth session will be affected by the my voice my brain my mind my physical body all of that is from A-OK for hours talking it's not easy anything that during the break between lots of break that I was quiet I was not because question so it's more than four hours but that's okay that's life it comes with the territory high INR three villages that mentioned through earlier I attended the this meeting Gonzales convention in two thousand nine Oakland blue October two thousand nine it was an emergency or a merchant ship and so I saw that in the advertisement that Brian McLaren some meeting people and emergency room for their and I went there and one of the main speakers who whom I never heard before the bulk volume which is more she was there and Richard Lord is the Franciscan priests and also a well-known mystic and saw I had the privilege of listening to him and on two occasions on this conference I also attended a conference workshop in Albuquerque in May May two thousand ten also all the movements of war was one of the main presenters and that one was striking emergence Christianity saw that business share with you something here he said I have this privilege was in the room of the says she wants in his is an spiritual drawer and also by requiring his late fifties I believe by now I believe his promises few years older or younger than I I've been on sixty four so these of my peers saw in his life both of them is a nice people if you were to ask me discourage them you would describe curriculum for prime time by one work I would probably say laugh really nice jump a few pine people but what they teach I I strongly disagree with the role spoke with the result of humble father was a sort of apology to I don't have this is a person 's life 's okay business I refer to it once in a while so I will basically read my work here and talk he spoke with soft tumble boys fatherly voice about the shortcomings of dualistic thinking talk at the court dualistic thinking and you need to acquire according to his word new software as he puts it so he uses high-tech language or grave younger generations understand what music what is software she was not talking about replacing Microsoft war with WordPerfect but she was talking about replacing the old operating system itself by replacing PCs since then when Apple operating system and to those who are incompatible that when that's what she meant new opening system she would she said we Christians need new operating system to learn how to drink non- linguistically when we contemplate about divine themes and thinking according to have which is pretty much what this is what he means by goal is to think analytical thinking critical thinking where we distinguish between polarities like white versus black or white versus red or black versus yellow exterior distinguish tall versus sore than versus good righteous versus sinful this dualistic thinking is the way we have been trained to think from childhood it is an you will probably credit sometime soon as you listen to these people they will say it is either or either or thinking and that's how we do things at a time ice every award that they speak to you now you are praying these processing very fast you're not even aware its processing through this dualistic thinking it's always comparing their father owns it so that you can understand going out here telling us that when it comes to divine theme subjects visibility thinking isn't the way to understand in other words we have to replace our software with another software when we will take non- dualistic like why the one one I want that seeing your God I got a personal experience when I was there is involved is the first time was in and I I was there as for the when I came back to landscape back home it took me on the other week to come back on a normal thing I was so higher because as I was listening to I was thinking a lot of notes and carefully listening to what he says because I was afraid that if I just relax and listen to him and begin to adopt with you saying as part of my thinking I would have probably fallen into a and that's what all those people there they paid the fees look at their flock they listen and I don't know how careful that but I was there and I can I confess to the value of this island you wife tells us we have to be careful to go to people who do not teach biblical God 's will to be very careful when we go to their meetings if you go there with an attitude stool alarm you may walk how would something that you learn from that Angels will not necessarily protect your butt I went there and I pray especially when I went second time now honestly I don't want to go anymore because I have enough but the way to go there you'll have murder was throwing pies but because I think most of the announcement telling me a few what I will understand foods you'll have to think none ballistic cruiserweight of lifting the world so that's what I hope you because the single console because you listen to according to wrong dualistic mold is a primitive intellectual way of thinking it is given that authority also dualistic mind is how our brains alternates and there is nothing wrong with it for daily existence and you will say we need it for the in order told your business you'll need to think the holistically and so on in order to do business in salt without that's a real world is the thinking is necessary to function in the world the business but not in the world we are if we want to experience spiritual truths divine love divine forgiveness divine presence is essential that we want to think not those this non- dualistic state of mine is actually a superior level of contemplative consciousness I served our as he calls a third which can see that they all asked by someone from the audience do you mean that in that state of mind I should stop thinking and will responded well yes it is at this level of consciousness the participant can begin drawing from the deep well we didn't sell with the existence of residence P understood by him to be the Holy Spirit is seeing old within all spiritual development consists of nine level now Richard Moore has nine levels off their mystics have either seven six five son site Cairo site cause psychoanalysis or site they are they all have different levels and different number of levels but that's all beside the point it's not important what is important they all have these different levels now according to the rollers levels this is this is going is the following the highest level is of course level nine but for the loveliest fake mind the highest level it's about five or six now people who are not educated simple people maybe one year of elementary education hardly know to read they had been about the first level the more education you have so for him with my education I would be in about fifty six level that's about when I would be good in Asia says all connects to reach the highest level that these crawls along the sixth level into this seven eight level you have to be trained you have to learn how to cross that threshold and that threshold is achieved only through learning and being known none ballistic word that means the get into that lab all of consciousness which is now contemplative conscious question is how do you well you do it still spiritual this no error at all spiritual this means that you wrote in spiritual formation and that's softer grade at Renaissance what their spiritual formation but the question what is what our spiritual boost I also mentioned to spiritual disciplines are anything that you do in a disciplined way tool creates a spiritual state from one point to the next Saul who can have a prayer walk and your walking and trying to reach a higher state of consciousness or who prayed one of view we've gotten so it's nothing wrong with taking a wall and contemplate by the way up to put in the book when we was wheels this is our contemplation and meditation and that is nothing wrong with using given in song Scripture we have David tells us I imagine tape upon your law I so meditation and contemplation is the requirements of the wrong percent but the difference is that there is difference between mystical what treats of the roller is talking about contemplation meditation versus biblical contemplation is it now we are in the wallet is how do you talk about prayer is there a wrong plan which is you say what you mean is a wrong way to pray right foot underneath how do you talk about prayer contemplation the face of all that busy this is what I earlier Secretary Peter we have to be very careful the because we are sensing and we see that something is not right here but you cannot going teach against meditation and contemplation and prayer so we have to carefully analyze and break is now in order to explain what is going on the freedom of the seat vacant spray and we pray and Captain 's play of greater Christians and non-Christians don't pray Jesus says it will not pray like that will update brilliantly per so when it comes to prayer what I find interesting is following when people begin to emphasize prayer the emphasis goes so far that somehow it is becoming at the cloths or something else I do begin I see red flags the point is prayer that his goal you will K to pay a public prayer obviously as soon shows proper words because you are representing the article the five public as you pray for as you are asked to pray for in front of the public when you pray alone I'm pretty much open your heart is figural language that even with grammatical error occurred while Wendy when people asked Jesus how to pray Jesus gave them such as sinful prayer I mean it's I find the Lord 's prayer is so simple nothing complicated about to say several in about a dozen of lines and out so simple straightforward there is nothing contemplated by this because there's nothing of four behaviors thought they got difficult to understand needs explanation and I'm willing to argue that a lot of people are making careers on this arguing for something art of prayer biblical prayer you read all the biblical prayers what is it consists of direct talk to God either praising God for what God has done most of the psalms of praise but you also kept me for help you craft fair to me the most beautiful prayers Daniel prayer Daniel 's prayer except not been accepted more elliptical fashion you cut me deep with God leaving it in God 's hands there is nothing false either/or it's so clear and so when we got into this question either I have to be careful because I don't want to Dan certain kinds of prayers because ethanol people for a critical spirit as one who works the but I'm also afraid that sometimes prayers can lead us into since phrase presumptions where we were and sometimes prayer is being use mystical prayers lead you into training to become a mystic was an ethics banal at this mistakes are people who asked third level of consciousness where they do not think Bloomsburg that is school districts all to become a mystic you need to be trained that means you become kind of you have a mentor helps you every junk drawer says some ovule of May goal to this process of draining people of weeks some of you will take up several months a system overview the way of your personality is somewhere you will can never become mystics I would never becomes I don't for so long I do not believe that I should go all anybody else to make me stop thinking and another thing is I would never allow myself fortunate that buys myself into state to be open not think because why because I am convinced value correct me if I'm wrong when God created us humans he created us in his own image what does that mean he created us on purpose with the rational mind whether we do use our activities in and therefore are people begin to suggest to me that I need to alter my faculty of reasoning soul they're telling me I will understand divine shrews that there is my terrain mine mine too small thinking processes and eventually stopped distinguishing the letter where that's not what God wants God metal access let us reason on so might my advice to people is that every time they come whatever they speak about this prayers mentation of the person listened to figure what are they talking about whether it is different and they're talking about subtype of acute posts but self-imposed his or your end the point is that when you start drinking you unable to slow down in your process of thinking you come to the state of level of consciousness where you will be able to communicate with either the divine weed being you or the divine outset so Jim would explain to people want to go out to work and that she would let people go out and in that place this was a result a lot of places to go out and people would go out and they would and they would give them what you give them approximately forgive actions like fines that find the focus of your of your meditation that can be added to be installed it could be a rocket could be a flower to be free and then focus on the how I will like them who through this through because I have done our I will not try to and I and I suggest you strongly don't drive basis for the sonnet and then use mantra of the Google life month are useful you can use mantra in her that they would suggest Christian mantras with your config John three sixteen you can think of praise God 's love and just keep repeating the point of month result would you say sometimes it is with what phrases but supposedly for Christian mysticism you use biblical phrases while at the the effect is to say Monterey 's use when you fault the sunup on something and you you need mantra to keep repeating and repeating your mind that because you are repeating that begins too small your process of political think you begin to slow your mind because it's busy with repeating it begins distinguishing between Tolland swore tried raw granola stop thinking and slowly help through the process was up big and brings it to the state where you and sometimes if you have an opportunity to see people will get to the third level this federal mine they are not aware of their set on any visit that level according to him you will hear voice and if you wish to respond to install what happened is that some people go out to the unblocked and careful decision besides I see few of them I don't want to be in was sold installed one nine zero saplings all happen amount have to come back and some of them were sharing their experiences and one gentleman in his about unsafe there is shared his experience and said he focused on the three he contemplated no length of the process things that the law it was all excited and said please spoke to him and Jay told him that he I'm very appreciated good to stop by people as by me and over the present invention I've seen a lot of things happen now please don't left the sister and people don't pay attention to me and I'm often lonely I'm sad but I'm glad that you are an good guys that I felt so sorry for three I got up and I can't what they were talking about was going on I am convinced that it was not the Holy Spirit and that other people have their experiences saw that okay now is that individual a mystic I don't know but he had the mystical experience and there are works done along this way 's and one lady who name is so this is the moment if him to believe lesbians and that when that's his consort about this when you kept all descriptors are sometimes the problem remain as Haggard 's she will use the vehicle responded she gloppy most than in the family whose mother on her mother was so what is the name of his people surrendering five five psychologist and eventually as these young ladies should Google officer began to move more into sexual lifestyle but then eventually late by the time which begun Middle Ages and generate words she met a lady I befriended the person who was having credit see that lady that she met had some mystical strange experience that now Roth Hagerty into pulled back into her own childhood and then she got interested in doing some research and she wrote a book called the fingers of God fingerprints of God so if your interest you can get into but it's very interesting report and she is saying his back because she didn't archive nobody search engine boxes of books is saying that more than fifty some percent of Americans reported having mystical experience of some experiences like feeling astray a feeling some electrically charged at pair around the seeing beings would like having some different kind of strange experiences this is becoming more and more evident in the lives of the people so people are connecting with all I have that I many people desire to have and so they are getting into this mystical experience they want to have sunk of course some people may be coincidence some people may see you who knows what but it would be ridiculous on our part to deny or ignore it is real it's taking place in society now how do we respond to how do we help people and how do we protect our youth from being curious and ten going into something like that now let me say something what is the spiritual formation that's a questionable important what is well spiritual disciplines lead you into spiritual partners who in order to boost good fortune to achieve spiritual information you need to print this knowledge of your and I called him because he is so for most full-fledged mystic and recognizes an vigil drawer says every spiritual discipline he then has one purpose to lead you into contemplative rosary is worth I can always talk about and so what is spiritual formation spiritual formation but it do not dislike Protestant black is what Protestants Christian at this youth we talked about we talk about sanctification and I think spiritual formation is a term for sectors now when you and I use the sanctification we are sanctified it's a process of being sanctified so what does that mean what it means that we do certain things in no way that God described it for us that that process and God sanctifies us are correct about the way you correct the spec of spiritual formation is did you do in order to form your spiritual character and yourself so that is a strong emphasis on you to it that is the difference that I see because you have a book and his practices and you always do it and metadata contemplates that the pipes are in place of the ways in order that God 's Newspeak 's got guts pics I don't objective that I have an objection that I have and I would like I like to point out to her I don't believe that you and I can do anything to pray and bring ourselves to a point where God and speak to us you are prayer and we can open our hearts to God and we can speak the Bible for God to speak to us that's because Joyce if she chooses to speak you will God already speaks to us that's in the world and I hear often and long pause as I have goes on the speakers are not so and I see a lot of Christians who pray and they ask God for some really use things and sometimes I think it's problematic for example I could people were telling me a personal spelling bee his experience problems softening from human soul that I'm praying very hard to God God 's only yourself tell them you love and then gave me a beautiful experience in the call he was healed and allowed us on the web I to judge them yes Q when told that she saw personally appeared at the bed at the foot of his bed light person white lights sounds like he believes Jesus yes I love you evaluate that I saw things that that same person say to me it was clearly on biblical food like makeup we very powerful because we are talking here about some phenomenon how do you distinguish what to talk what would you believe you have what kind of questions the US got revealed what less questions and ask and I have come to conclusion after all of this that is and I'm still learning the business is very difficult topics to be careful and trying to be careful that a lot of blasphemy against those works in his own way I cannot tell how was difficult work but I don't want another one experience of my bats in the article published last week or month of June that thought the Galapagos should use pick it up greeted this is through experience a friend of mine was getting Bible study former Yugoslavia and I'm a person who was attending his Bible study and study the Bible law the Bible study don't but when they came to the back to the South the person a difficult time to accept the Bible believes the Bible is the word of God reads the Bible but she said to my friend and a lot I will pray about and when and begin praying and praying God help me so they observed Sabbath Saturday or Sabbath and some and then one day he comes again my friend April listen afternoon praying about this and Jesus appeared to me because he saw a live person again the people that put a person like you believe Jesus the person told you just hold on to your Orthodox faith because this person was Houston on three got my finances and listen I pray and Jesus revealed to me that I should call and remain Orthodox and therefore we are not studying the Bible and more that there couple of years later my friends and I forgot about couple years later somebody knocks on the door of my house I open the door and hear his and then she tells him to set remember me yes remember what I told you yes as you know what I went home and ever since then I did not have peace something was wrong with my decision finally after this time since I decided I will go back to the Bible and I read the Bible and I'm convinced that the Bible Bible says that the word of God I am better to accept the Sabbath I want to gain backing is baptized and became a popular large knowledge the point here the point is sometimes we as God questions which he answered already in the script any fuel asking again now presumptive now why do I make that conclusion I read a statement out and you wipe the designer wages page one twenty six makes a very interesting statement to basically courted so that means the least I wrote in the new my Bible faith claims God 's promises and brings forward in obedience presumption also claims the promises but uses them as Satan does it excuse to rush page one twenty six but you read paragraphs before it covers out it in that statement it's called right in the middle of the story of Jesus that they should does so when you read Matthew and you read the account of the temptation what does it say Jesus was baptized and right there God speaks this is my son next verse and chapter but chapters and verses divided are not inspired so they got out next verse is and the spirit took been out in the desert and she wants to be passed down and what is the first question that sake on the first date statement that makes the fuel are the son of God is that the question is not can you made the stones into bread Jesus Kerr they are this is my son that's a testimony that he is the son of God statement asking me if you are a son of God then though this did Jesus have acted he would have acted presumptions to the point so there you have a lot of example with daylong in Oakdale when those people we face a key ally follow-up sent out to you because you know about these people and you can curse them and here are the gifts helped a lot is the problem of God once and that they love doing that all what was his mistake instead of telling them listen guys your King knows that by the prophet you know that I know I know about these people I cannot curse them therefore go back to working know what is he doing he makes a mistake she says well you stay here I'm going to ask God what are you going to ask up so he's asking God got those of normal then they go back they come back they say the question now is the second time they loved you supposed to know is that told him listen I told the first time go back no he said that yes they here the goal as you know what's going on God will always honor all requests if you don't like the first answer you've give you what you like to hear either he or he will let somebody else to give and you know this whole story I think even God was sending so many messages not the book is doing wanted to another with the bottom line is they don't want to so when this financial mile my friend he doesn't did is I like the Sabbath must let me pray with you to pray with you I was so cute he is anyone here but his greatest American humor zero in the multimillion piece on the public will do the wrong decision something 's not right here the same thing my friends this is what's happening and I'm sensing that a lot of our young people a lot of us and all the descriptors apply to understand that tool more difficult it's much easier to pray constantly for a cry and whine and one day God himself go install I don't all give you know I don't know if you expect me an answer to me spiritual formation is accomplished with the sanctification told me of this language it's a language and should use out of the medicine to today I don't know how many ovule was a hot manual you ever met people we use them all the time in the list and use it if the ruling known as abusive when I share this with my students by students grow costs some of the gift right and decent logo how only recognize whether the young man is assumed you so long and as soon as you as the question then you realize the responsibility to recognize who is a true lover who is 's invention thereof the versus abusive whose invention is that they could do that for one night the responsibility is on the girl right how why no resume well you know what that's what it comes to you I hope you have with parents who can future I have I hope you listen to the advice salon I hope you figure out that you don't fall for promises you open your ears and you learn to recognize the language of the Toulon versus we live in that page and manual loss of falling from the language of site that's my close of my conclusions that may be wrong but I I if something is going on we are losing a lot of young people where doing evangelism and I'm for it but will dwindle when I what do I do to win to souls in this world and I was marked with children underweight I think we have a serious problem so this initial on mysticism I don't think we understand mystics well I thought before maybe many of you mystics and also permits trail along the lots spend all day on no mysticism is way more than that is Richard Gore puts it it's a completely new software which you would think and that is I think it's beginning this whole thing it's preparing the stage where one day Satan done in either lenses will appear and people will take for you until August Chris Hall UNI audio and we are you are able to distinguish what would you do if you have an TV well that little square Jesus appeared and he is telling us about that how would you respond sauce up here because time is running out burger but prevents questions yes or yeah that's it if you want if you have no dose if you start the film industry and media television shows it is an increasing number of days contemplation meditation spirituality mysticism spiritism spirits all about becoming more and are more social by and also down novels they are store is and that is becoming more and more as Norm Oliver rather than we were weird and strange that's just the plan that's that's goes with this while the I don't know but I can see places in here I deal with young people I might hear some people make statements people the students felt they what's going on here and there I see that it is affecting us as well don't only help you Caldwell sometimes serial set of all in all I quantify the gloom of the blood and I just educated I'm trying to educate as much as they can I tell my students don't lose no don't pay attention be careful we have to be careful not to be judgmental because we judge each other we have divisions I it's it's it's that's light-sensitive I think we are affected by emergent ideas concepts all that sometimes the blog was far I don't know yes I don't know what to tell if it was unpopular to give me the desert about the but you have to tell me what happened at that meeting everything because maybe maybe there were no Netflix and he could easily be it could easily be that sometimes you have people who would send you a letter telling you about someone being involved in spiritual formation because that is the you don't know you'll have to listen it to be careful my advice to you is congratulating itself what the Bible says keep QB nor not the only way to know the seductive language is not the tool and if you are well versed in the Scriptures and the spirit of prophecy you will not fall that's my energy when adopting a meeting and then you see something okay you will swear by the problem is that many of us to send my youth I can supervise students in the classroom a large number of us to stop duplicate units of that's a problem we somehow I don't know what happened without baby boomer generation six this we somehow began to take the advent is a little life and we have produced a voltage of relations which have even further away from Scripture all my students many of them many I don't put number but many of my students in finance of eighteen forty four I mentioned some at the basic idea what that is my neck I serve my students make a statement the Bible is just the concept of a culture that's emergent idea Bible is not the product of a culture yesterday 's true that interest rate than made by people in the super particular culture but if you read the Scriptures to them but the Scripture is actually a history all about people who have been the time this lawyer at a guess that the jingle that very book and some for you to tell me that the book is a product of our culture yet the culture leave lives against the book then it's not the book comes from someone else so you can have this idea is Richard being thrown out to be broken up here they think it's cute and a VP that so answer is the fray study be well-established in biblical and that he will know after Victor well yes Michael Baldwin is a will is and this is going to be as close beyond they these guys are talking about poems both small and talking post- Christian phase using with Paul's from the system we are now talking about emergent leaders with talking about convergence Julie's Web talking about the birds and what have I been something is it's more earned more in words what I have sent now there's what I'm saying is I am sensing that this new theology is effectively destroying additional Proclus the it is transforming brought the splinters of wood into something else and therefore to me I would now I'm stepping here looking forward back I believe that this is the based on your chapter thirteen this is that these which looks like a lamb but speaks like that any forces leads all the peoples of the first things saying he does not call worship in person theology is interesting to see when the deposit of good think about this how how does it call with Catholic Christianity to respond to the question where is the positive spiritual toward the answer is indigent Hollywood Pentecostal Christianity respond to what is deposited the spiritual point in the spirit how would and merchants respond okay that through no how would emergency response where is the positive spiritual fortitude it is eating what the Holy Spirit in us is today which said that they say and I wish I can have your here that something is not capital work of the spirit that means what you see going on in the lives of you and me as we pray as we come to play as we participate in society social activism as one that is through spiritual formation with them it's happening in our lives and you can see that the people stopped thinking that raising the Lord that work is superior to theirs and that was enough I was always reverses the want of the book the work of the Spirit given you will call people to self this is believed to the work of God and Jesus Christ but glad out and you didn't know how dangerous this is the argument is that there is an example one author says when homosexual couple comes to me and asked me to the tool to web I recognize because these people love each other and then no particular goal of individual kinds things of that act is not all that I have recognized the work of the Spirit in that couple and I cannot but but this event you have this argument you have the work of God the Bible the Bible does not answer the questions flouting out whether they say well what the hell and they would come up big one for example most Excel love the Bible says about six Google like the answer therefore you are praying and asking God of course you're going to get to the presumption 's way of life the whole different way of seeing things the point is the Bible usage interesting thing is the Bible does answer and raised single fundamental questions of life that's what Bible deals with now it does not answer what kind of job nurses have it is no answer how bodies the sound from the birth it does not answer some things on how universe works going when you're wrong allows him fundamental questions of life science cannot answer the goal many scientists thrive on that and they do it Bible answers fundamental questions of life then I felt emergency service this is what is the way you put it it's this step home on investment we are entering some day is coming but as more and more NIC of all we have is that looked like business is physically he went to a supporting industry of the Senate strategy states he seems I is young to be knighted by the date sliced printed Christians to download the pictures other resources like this I am in WW Maecenas .org I

Share

Embed Code

Short URL

http://audiover.se/13qp1tC