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Logo of GYC 2013: Before Men and Angels

06-Part 3: Wisdom's Recluse?

Michael Younker

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Michael Younker

Managing Editor, Journal of the Adventist Theological Society

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  • January 4, 2014
    3:15 PM
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for you you make a movie where the women he'd demand is going I wanted to like this visit us online at www. delay seamen and this is the second time I've done this three part series review order for maybe the first time okay a few of you all right that makes a little bit different and for how it may come across in the sense of it is is a three-part journey to get where were going today so I hope that all of you have some familiarity with the story of Job because it is kind of important to understand where you hasn't been where he has gone through before we get to try and understand the end of the story of Job I had shared it as I mentioned in part one as kind of joke without the prologue what is it like to read Job without reading chapter one which is where most pastors and teachers will always spend most of their time or you will never hear a sermon on Job without a very heavy emphasis on chapter one and I'm not saying that that's wrong or incorrect or anything of the sort always been obviously very wisely inspired the store to be written that way but to help understand Julie's mind my kind of skipped that and I'm going to kind of return to hear the end so I'm taking a different kind of a journey through the story of Job because I think he can help us think about the questions of theodicy and a little bit of a different way because the questions of the suffering of the righteous will always have complex the Christians throughout this our journeys our own journeys through this life so I went to try and wrestle with it in a little bit of a different way so so bear with me if I am going to presume that you know little bit more of a about your when we began I think it is time again my name is Michael yonder I am studying theology at Andrews University I'm working my way through my my dissertation right now and it is on and not on jewelry or any biblical passage per se but it is related to freedom and time and I think that those topics have a lot to do with the house understand theodicy questions of God 's dealings with humanity throughout history the great controversy you have freedom and time is key components and in every way the Sabbath new from the seventh to the free will of his issues are our great great importance and interest to us as Adventists and so I'm looking a little bit of the philosophy behind it and how worldly people think about these questions and how it may help us understand theology but it is great to try to apply some directly into the Bible alright this is going to be agile part three and before I begin I will offer a quick word of prayer defined in heaven I think you that we can be here again both here right now in this room but also larger on the larger picture judge you I see what we can be sharing and experiencing fellowship with our friends and others who have come through their own journeys in life but to share an interest and in many cases a dedicated passionate interest in understanding you better in understanding your love for us and we want to be better equipped to understand how we can share that love with others and so we ask that your bowsprit will be with us here and now that our minds may be open and impressed and that this may be the help as we move forward in our own Christian walks in your new prey in all right Joe part three and again I'll give a little bit of an explanation on the title wisdom 's recluse or revealing the veil us and some of you are new and isolated last time I kind of gave what my titles were oh oh was recluse is referring to God as God wisdom 's recluses he hiding somehow is not hiding is the author was in hiding behind something is wise he sometimes is difficult to perceive and understand so wisdom 's recluse or notices a there wore revealing the veil and as you may recall part one my whole point behind but introducing the story of Job without the prologue the kind of stepped right into the life of the suffering servant of God Job and understand his perspective I had said no what's it like again you normally reality there is out of you know like replay you have the curtain and you have like nearly the dressing room and so forth in this kind of business rest of the story behind what happens out on on the on the play or social speed was happening in life and how Job is not given access to the behind-the-scenes pictures he does not know that he's going to be wearing these boils not only physically but also as part of a bigger picture they are and they are makeup doesn't speak is for you and I in a certain sense for what God is trying to demonstrate that even though there it is very real in and physically painful to him but I'm distraught it was front explain how how it appears as if there you don't know the rest of the story so that's why were going to come to this revealing the veil sidedness so what is the veil what is sound like you know when you have two rooms and you have partitioning between any always wondering you know like what's on the other side is going to take avail for granted and I went to be talking about how God 's veil is what you his covering is actually what he really is and so revealing the veil explaining what God is really is the footing towards issues of character and so forth and Job is the story behind the title I enjoy interesting titles we are left with the continuing and we are left with Job and his suffering yard France's recall they are mentioned this seven days stared down as they waited for him to you begin speaking his recall he had that kind of been just sitting there suffering in silence and they go to seven days of kind of know known suffering with them so the speed but it's apparently not so much suffering with them as preparing their ammunition to assault killed and recovered all of that last time of how the friends went through a round after round taking turns with different personalities with different language but spiraling upward and upward all towards the goal of Job you have done something to deserve this and I was their conclusion so I had the friends got a staring at him anticipating arguments for judging this man and seeing him as worthy of what he was struggling through but we went through all of that last time as so we will continue I want to ask job question here what really is the issue for Joe from his point of mine I know what what is really happening for Joe and of course in the background is great another question what is God 's issue for Job what is God 's perspective on the issue on the matter on the painful saga that he is experiencing but for Joe would you say that the issue for him is how got appears to be treating him that seems to be the question that he has to ask why has God treating me this way when I have done everything in the rights I have been a good person I have tried to do the right thing why is God treating in this way and you will see this reflected a writing jobs words how you know he is reacting to what appears to be God punishing him directly he can see it no other way he has no understanding that is revealed in the book of Job per se of any divine counsel in heaven Job chapter one is not part of his story that is behind the curtain that he has not seen as so he has to admit right from the beginning early in the book of Job six for the arrows of the Almighty are in need my spirit drinks and their what is one of what God seems to be doing to meet God 's tears are marshaled against me there is no doubt that Job is going to fall down so low that he has to assume especially his friends are not discouraging this this perspective that God is doing this and Job admits that without any curtain drawn aside the special manifestation the uniqueness of his punishment the circumstances again we went over that this is just an incredible if you experience something like what Joe did a sermon after sermon coming in and a day like this you would be thinking this is unusual this is this is not normal as a Job thinks the same way and this is the arrows of the Almighty has no other way but to look at it as God doing this to him continuing forward I just wanted to go over some of Joe's words you really can I get how he really feels about this Job sixteen ten chapters later from there there are other words they're not a salesman cares them in his anger and ashes is deepening imagine yourself again having gone through anything remotely like what Job is done and how you might be inclined to think and feel my opponent fastens on me and who was the opponent here as reference it has to be God at least as Job this is using it here fastens on his piercing eyes men open their mouths to journey to strike my cheek and scorn unite together against me God has turned me over to evil men and drawn me into the clutches of the wicked all was well with me but he shattered me he sees me by the neck and crushed me he has made me his target his archers to surround me without pity he pierces my kidneys and spills might all on the ground again and again he burst upon me he rushes at me like a warrior imagine again as we have gone through previously jokes that the tragedies of the befallen him and how he must be feeling and thinking to say things like this here is again as I have been doing throughout all three parts on collecting pictures I have found the artistic renditions and here's God smiting Job and his wife looking on I think in this this case so since God is doing this is made his arrows upon him Joe demonstrates it is important that Joel demonstrates this theology quite clearly really for worse or for better again Job nineteen six note and that God has wronged me and has closed his net around me Job does go we've gone over how far Job goes but he does he does go so far it goes to the precipice of accusing God of doing this Job nineteen and heat he also describes the impact of what this is done and it's not simply made him in Oregon is not submit physical suffering is not the loss of all of this we went over remember what were the two tests that come up on and near the beginning and it's the loss of wealth and health wealth and health and then but more than that he is its philosophy no social relations I guess but my brother and far from me in my acquaintances are wholly estranged from the kinsfolk and close friends have failed me here you know no doubt a little bit we went over last and how his friends even brought up the loss of his children as an example of why Job was suffering divine punishment nor your children and evil and God 's children you know and in their work out of the know the beginning and the end of the day of signifying your business suffering so that they were poking at him with no heated irons and a joke out of returns that my canceled my wife know and my friends here have failed me I guess in my house since forgotten the mermaid service counties a stranger I'm an alien in their eyes I called my servant but he gives no answer again we went over and perhaps that the timeframe we don't really know the Bible is revealed but how long Job wind was suffering through this new between the eighth of the two different phases of the losing all of its new sheep and cattle and Robert is not becoming covered with boils we don't know I must besiege and with my mouth that his sermon on repulsive to my wife loathsome to the sons of my own mother even young children despise me when I rise up they talk against me all my intimate friends and for me it is difficult for us and I did have no last time you know a couple people in your share with me of some some situations that have come close to this where they have for a variety of circumstances had unfortunate things befall them personally and in different ways and new they have had friends that have no cold shoulder then I even know in their mind and their heart there was nothing that should have altered the relationship that some nevertheless circumstances learned that other people judge them and then right into their heart things that were not there and you know and how hard that is it is very difficult and Job is expressing that that is what he is feeling that not everyone the world has turned against me not only my God but the world my friends the world everyone has turned against me and by the way he'll come back to the moment of this is at the beginning of Job chapter nineteen remember that because Job chapter nineteen is a very important chapter in Job here again another one of the art renditions of this that I collected I think I sure this one before but all the friends lined up you know choosing Joe his wife pleading with them Chris God and I don't you see the big picture joke clearly God has judged you the Job holds fast Job 's final defense is his integrity he cannot buy into their story of what is happening to him he cannot do it Job twenty three behold I go forward but he is not there catching in the connections of his talking about God here on and so follow transition people for many is not there God I'm backwards I cannot proceed where the good God i.e. I used to know is when he acts in the left I cannot behold and when he turns on the right I cannot see the good God I I thought I knew but he knows the way that I take here he is processing your faith this is Jeffrey twenty three but he knows the way I take when he has tried me I shall come forth as gold my foot has held fast to this path I have kept his way and not turned aside I have not departed and this is again critical to understanding Job I have not departed from the command of his lips with theology is your revealing here what kind of picture when understanding is he half of God and that may be different than simply the arrows of God are arrayed against me Job is expressing awareness of moral law is expressing awareness of God 's command she's expressing a previous relationship with God and that seems to have been changed but he does not know why we says I know God and I have not departed from the command of his lips I have treasured the words of his mouth more than necessary cruiser he is professing look you know my friends you are accusing me of great wickedness but I have done nothing special to warrant this there's nothing I have been a morally upstanding and I have always tried to do the right thing he continues this the Job twenty seven in his next dialogue as long as my breath is in me and the spirit of God is in my nostrils my lips will not speak falsehood and my tongue will not utter the seat far be it for me to say that you are right until I die I will not put away my integrity from the I hold fast my righteousness and will not let it go my heart is not reproach me for any of my days however the Québec Job nineteen remember a year that began this chapter with them describing how you been and become a complete outcast but he ends the chapter with this amazing reversal incredible words and Job owner my words were written and I think he was a prophet to oh my words written that there was finding a book of all of that with an iron pin lead they were graven in the rock forever and I think once the words and become part of the word of God they are indeed part of the rock forever fry know that my Redeemer lives at last he will stand upon the earth and after my skin has been thus destroyed and in my flesh I saw it I shall see God I would run over the authorship of Job and how Ellen White said indicates that Moses was the one which I believe except critical scholarship cannot help confirm this but it is still interesting to note again that the Job is appears to be outside a covenant line is evidently early in history at around the time of Abraham thereabouts and the how and why and what theology exactly he had access to I don't know we don't know but nevertheless it seems to be evident from early on than Joel did have a knowledge of a Redeemer that he knew that there would be a Redeemer and that said there was an afterlife that after the skin has been destroyed that in my flesh I shall nevertheless seek God whom I shall see on my side he will be on my side and my eyes shall behold him and not another and the Job expresses this incredible value no with all the world abandoned me nevertheless when I think of this my heart face within the at the thought of meeting my God whom I know that I have had integrity before now I added this and also at the request the last time as I someone had asked what about Eli who I character versus ignorance and down I wanted to just touch on the fourth friend because some have tried to find in your life who some some extra answers or responses to the question of Job 's suffering and sizes were recovered very briefly and I think who is an important part of the story of Job and we have no extra biblical inspired counsel on the role or a significance who from Ellen White's etc. but but who does prepare the way for God speeches and since this lectures about God were going here very shortly I did with recovery like to add any does note when he talks to Job he says listen to me behold my open mouth and my tongue my mouth speaks from the uprightness of my heart he is trying to take a middle path from the more critical friends at a Job is experienced before but the joke on the buddy life who tries to take it on no AAA softening tone and that is appreciated I think that that is more down the right path and a helpful sense to Job than his other three friends were so interviews speaking minority claims to be speaking sincerely of course isn't the only one to have made a claim but I think we doesn't mean it even though he is young and has been waiting here to explode because his words to go over and against the friend studio but I think that he is sincere and he makes a claim the Spirit of God has made me as some have seen evidence here for the fact that he may be claiming inspiration on on not sure how commentators are not certain on speaking about his commentators as well as as others on what role he liked really has to swear not without certain but he does claim that the breath slowly almighty his answer is given in life and he says you can set your words in order behold I am toward God as you are I to was formed on the piece of Glaeser being definitely takes more humble stance of his friends had been taking people the fear of me need terrifying my pressure will not be heavy upon you Shirley has spoken my hearing I've heard the sound of your words you say I'm clean without transgressions until this year trying to summarize what he has been hearing from from Job you say I'm clean without transgression I'm sure Warner is knowing when to behold the God finds occasion against me that's what you're claiming semiskilled thoughts and accounts is inundated with my feet in the stocks and watches all my paths is what I hear you saying it either summarizes I think correctly what Job has been sending God 's mysteries and without a reason and that he is doing these things without justification are in some sort of capricious way that God has been unfair and ceiling out Job this punishment now his response I think his answer can be summarized in a fairly briefly behold in this you are not right Joe and I will answer you and his answer is God is greater than man now I think that those are in a manner of speaking correct so I'm sympathetic to be lied to being a step on the way step on the pathway towards responding to Job and in getting a correct answer however I'm not satisfied this is the correct answer to the question of the suffering that we can just leave it there I think that that's not not enough that we had not penetrated deeply enough in the story of Job to just say that God is greater than man this is truly like it was directed and he does prepare the way for what God himself will say but I'm not satisfied that this is where we want to leave this story when it comes to the suffering of the righteous now you may have noted that there is an important chapter in the that latter third year of the Job that seems to be a little bit out of place and now is the time to go to that diversion before heading towards the conclusion Joe chapter twenty eight is one of the in my opinion most incredible beautiful and out of place chapters in a certain sense of the flow of you know that the context of the book that you find an entire Bible just appears there and it is meditate and then that the again commentators are not sure whether or not this these are Moses words is the author of the book as a narrator whether or not these are Moses words whether not they are actually somehow part of Jones a dialogue as survey does not seem to come from one of the friends but were not quite sure what exactly Job twenty eight is doing here and who wrote it whether not it is Moses or Job but in either case the Holy Spirit clearly inspired it to be placed right here in Joel 's chapter on wisdom and down you may have remembered last time I shared at the end remember about miracles and how unique they are inundated the concept of the normal ordinary world and how they relate to the mind and how the mind and action rumor that amazing quote from Ellen White and she says that the mind in action it's like the miracle working power of God that is an incredible quotation of the mind and actions like the miracle working power of God so we're trying to note that look for something that is outside of the commonsense ordinary way of thinking about problems and so Job twenty eight is the is the key point for this connection what is wisdom what is wisdom we will read Job twenty eight a little bit and remind you to think after the biblical book surely there is a mind for silver anyplace from gold which they refine a member last time I talked about again the miracles and how the world 's miracles are what wealth and health and I showed it to Don commented on his wealth and but then remembered ends with not much health but nevertheless that the world 's miracles the world 's wonders what is most amazing to the worldly man is his wealth and here's your silver and gold surely there is a mindless summary place for gold which they refine iron is taken out of the earth and coppers smelted from the ore a continues him into darkness and search out to the farthest bound the war in gloom and deep darkness and the commentators see here like perhaps the earliest of lamps that matters my uses a big end of the earth and shafts into the ability of the finer than gold and jewels they opened Shasta valley away from where men live they are forgotten by travelers they hang afar from them they swing to and fro and remember what is this chapter during Joe what is this chapter during Job why is this here what an interesting spin on the version and the search for gold by men the swing to and fro in verses seven and a job says there is nothing in nature like me has desperate search for gold that have to knows that path no bird of prey knows and the falcon 's eye has not seen it the proud beast of not trying that the line has not passed over it so the animal kingdom seems to be removed from the successive quest for treasure for gold animals pay no attention to the jewels of his men who seek after these things and they will go to almost emulate any limits to find them verse nine man puts his hand to the flinty rock and overturns mountains by the roots it cuts out channels in the rocks and his eyes sees every precious thing he binds up the stream so that they do not trickle here again indicating some some knowledge from the author on on methods of mining in early and biblical times and the thing that is said he brings forth delights of man is incredibly successful in his efforts to find the school and bring it to light minors have often gone again explaining the verses are the dam of water about Everest Adamic waters that seeps into their minds in order to work them in Job it shows how man gives up almost anything and goes to any lengths to Feingold and then finally we get to the point of what this has to do with the story of Job but where shall wisdom is found and where is the place of understanding man does not know the way to which and it is not found in the land of the living the Dean says it is not in the embassy says it is not with me remember my discussion of natural science and how your your atheist scientist there is no other world all that there is is what nature reveals the laws of nature and that what it reveals about all manner all issues of life whether it be moral issues or whatever else if you want to answer the question of the OS it's been discussed here today and added and there are other conferences dealing with issues of sexuality was a trolley all the sorts of things which are kind of moral issues again for the secular person the answer can only be found after studying the man's nature is studying the physical list of unreality but this other there is no other world there is no other place where superior insider knowledge rethinking our wisdom can be found and the Job agrees meaning agrees that it's not a major rally disagrees with the atheists are the scientist that there is nothing else but where shall wisdom be found it is not in the deep or the sea it is not with me it we see the reason for his analogy also for the search of her men search for gold and there there with their wealth silver treasures he says men will go to any lengths to find these treasures they will work and toil and sweat all day long in the sun if they think that there is gold be found they will do anything but they cannot our a rather they were they will not find these things in the in your but they likewise will nevertheless search for the answers to the reels of life they will continue to the probe but that where candles answers be found they can find the gold but they cannot find wisdom through their pickaxes and tools in mine shafts and whatever else may that they may use to look for the site within this elusive it hides it is behind Minuit is some sort of been over it is hidden behind something behind a veil of some sort I visited now what is this wisdom that Joe is talking about all through the book we have been confronted with the question why does Joe R does not treat Job this way why has God been making Job to suffer in this special especially painful way we've gone over again the dramatic miss of what hope has gone through why has he suffered this way Job has remember without the prologue Joan has no knowledge of the challenge that Satan has made to God about him he has no knowledge of this so he and Joel does not understand at this point we cannot assume he knows anything of this but we often nevertheless no doubt feel this we ourselves do we often as you know I don't think the guy while we have the benefit of reading John's prologue and knowing that there is a greater context out we don't know what is behind the curtain of the veil of our life why we might be suffering by our friends or family might be suffering and you know again and I mentioned it knowing that it is that will be a continuing for a short time more struggling with figuring my own family my my stepgrandmother who converted Adventism about fifteen years ago from the AIA and early Catholic childhood to atheism to add a dozen and that when she and embrace the message she she no embrace the holy and she was in good health at the time she was better than blessed with good health and at the UN from AA life in general good health she embraced the health message you on top of it and down and was in a great house he loved to walk into things and that she would still be a relatively younger grandmother to meet at my stepgrandmother age wise but over the last five years she has very rapidly seen every part of her body and then the doctors have no exact diagnosis but minus the fall apart and she is now in a very very difficult place and it is difficult even though we no longer she can communicate anymore and we can no longer really understand what she is thinking how her mind might be working better than I can observe and feel leave the the challenges and painted my grandfather as a seed that cares for her and and your experiences this is very sudden and seemingly unfair in a way that that that this is why snow has has fallen upon it and how difficult it is understand is hard to understand why would this happen and why was she retreated this way and the other questions we cannot know what is going on or why a part of what reason or purpose if if any at all under the sinful world we live in that she has had experiences but we all have access to these kinds of difficulties whether it is a closer family or friends there will be people that do not know why they are struggling in a way that they are so we can definitely I think connect with Job in asking why does God treat me this way why has God treated Job this way we do we had information mean we have from Job we have information he doesn't have you in the knowledge of accounting is made but we often do joke twenty eight back to Job twenty eight if verses fifteen to seventeen is described a wisdom cannot be found in but cannot be bought as I have already begun to share it cannot be gotten for gold he makes a connection directly between the the wealth and wisdom that cannot be gotten for gold and silver cannot be weighted at its price it cannot be valued in the Golden Gopher and precious onyx or sapphire gold and glass cannot equal it nor can be exchanged for jewels of fine gold he makes very clear however he ends Joel twenty eight the chapter on wisdom with the words God understands the way to it and he knows his place when he looks to be fans of the earth and he sees everything under the heavens so God does know where it is and God knows what it is when he gave to the wind its way to meet about the waters by measure when he made a degree for the rain and a way for the lightning of the thunder then he started to clear it he established it and he searched it out so God knows where it is a sentiment and this is the last verse of chapter twenty eight behold the fear of the Lord that is wisdom and to depart from evil is understanding behold the fear of the Lord that is wisdom and to depart from what evil is what understanding now what did Job claim and I think accurately that's the purpose of the book that he claimed to have a knowledge of God 's words that related to evil that he claim to have a knowledge of God 's morality yes you did a Job is not explicitly clear in spelling out the ten Commandments rating and that sort of the Job very clearly said that I have treasured your words I know who you are God I know what you are like I hope what you really like I have done what you have commanded I have been a moral person I have any moral person and what is it that being a moral person supposed to grant one understanding so what is going on here can understand the magnitude of the situation at Job was fallen upon to depart from evil is understanding and how does that relate to wisdom another picture because we are now getting ready to arrive at God 's speeches and a conclusion this is God appearing in the whirlwind before Job and his friends God 's response is now who and some of the others again making quick pass reference to what I've shared before they had all made the claim that the God is all-knowing and all-powerful God is all-knowing and all-powerful now we're Job 's friends all four of them were the correctness yes they were God is all-knowing and God is all-powerful that's what's very interesting about God 's responses I'm not going to read them all right here because they're long and they are very interesting and in poetic but that God makes clear and this is amazing thing again edited they are worth reading because these are the two longest beaches of God entire Bible and what are they about it's interesting to the snow here with her about what are the two longest speeches from God to man entire Bible about an error they are they make the claim they assert very plainly that God is all-knowing and God is all-powerful has got offered a response or an answer that Job did not know no however why did God say this why did God say this think about that why did God choose to respond by Sibley saying I am all-knowing and I am all-powerful why does he affirm Job 's enemies before saying Job is right Job is the one that's right about me but yes friends I am all-knowing and I am all-powerful think about that think about that there is God speaking to joke through the whirlwind and the storm may controversy as I prepare for a different way of thinking about the question of the Odyssey and suffering which over the voice of the Lord out of the whirlwind he exclaimed I abhor myself and repent in dust and ashes Ellen White this is from a Congress he was when Isaiah saw the glory of the Lord and heard the cherubim crying holy holy holy is the Lord of hosts that he cried out woe is me for I am undone Paul after he was caught up in the third heaven in her things which was not possible for a manned outer space of himself as less than the least of all saints it was the beloved John Molina Jesus Bresson beheld his glory the fellas went dead before the feet of the angel Job 's response to God is behold I am insignificant what can I reply to you I lay my hand on my mouth was I've spoken and I will not answer even twice and I will add nothing Mubarak politically and saying I know nothing you are all-knowing and you are all-powerful Joe gave a second response you know this is not good between and after that the first you got speeches to enjoy mass of the Lord and said I know that you can do all things in all and that no purpose of your scan before it loses that hides counsel without knowledge therefore I have declared that which I did not understand things too wonderful for me and by the way this is one of the other exceptions to the law that is in the Bible I've declared things to miraculous for me which I did not know here now and I will speak I will ask you and you instruct me I have heard of you by the hearing of the ear but now my ICG therefore I retract and I repent in dust and ashes now what does Job have to repent for beyond simply the fact that he is human he has claimed that God has done these things why does God 's responses why do they leave and I was the question that I had and I think almost every reader of Job has had that a strider wrangling an answer to theodicy out of God 's responses why is it that the responses just fall upon the gods claim to knowledge and power is that all the story that there is I think that's an online since you can say that the book is steady the book of Job does it do for us a lot towards helping us see that life is in many ways but three however I think that misery is our shared and be applied to a great number of things more than than we often assume like human freedom in the first place we don't even know how we are free let alone many other things we are surrounded by mystery cannot comprehend it all it is painted to reality suspended on to larger canvas this is all true is too great involved for us to grasp it all we cannot proceed all the ways of God are beyond us many many times over and yet I think Job is gradually learning in the midst of his pain to trust the God who is there so trust that he will come up with the adequate answers and it is working out a purpose in line with his love but the question I have is is there still more that can be set but I'll come back to them I want to read from Ellen White just to bring Jennifer didn't prepare your minds to think differently and this does also highlight the role of the street thus many made many air from the face and are seduced this is from Rick Harvester seduced by the devil may have endeavored to be wiser than the Creator human philosophy has attempted to search out and explain mysteries which will never be revealed through the eternal ages if men would but searching understand what God is made known of himself and his purposes they would obtain such a view of the glory majesty and power of Jehovah that they would realize their own littleness and would be content with that which has been revealed for themselves and their children it is a masterpiece of Satan 's deceptions to keep the minds of men searching and conjecturing in regard to that which God has not made no one and that which he does not intend that we shall understand it was thus that Lucifer lost his place in heaven he became dissatisfied because all the secrets of God 's purposes were not confided to him and he entirely disregarded that which was revealed concerning his own work in the lofty position assigned to by arousing the same discontent in the Angels under his command cause their fall now he seems to view the minds of men are the same spirit and to leave them also to disregard the direct commands of God Ellen Whitehead elsewhere summarizes from the Scripture we may learn much regarding God 's dealings with his people and when calamity comes unless the Lord indicates plainly that this calamity is sent as a punishment of those who are departing from the word of counsel unless reveals that it has come as a retribution for the sins of the workers but every man refrain from criticism best be careful not to reproach anyone now I've shared all of that because I think it's important to play up the knowledge and power of God and the mystery of God they are important to keep in mind when we're trying to wrestle with the question of suffering however as I have also tried to and will inform you that there is another way to think about it how did we or how could Job or what was Chapter twenty eight 's conclusion to the matter of how we can understand better understand wisdom what was and what was the method what really matters is that said remember God by John sings tested Jones one what do they involve harnessing think you could attest Job through what health and wealth your new thought that through health and wealth that Job window you'll fail the test and would fall and would did I do something wrong but what did God really care about what was the test from God 's point of view what was God 's test to Joe Sosa speak what was God 's test what was it about this character and by the way whose character both both of them in this sense God was testing Job over this character over something that was located in net intangible realm of wisdom it which is only accessible by submitting yourself to God I think that when on chooses to respond by saying I am all-knowing and I am all-powerful there is left in the additional words by God that Joan has spoken to me what is right that what really is the issue for Job is the fact that he does know God and that the moral character of God is actually the answer to really understanding why something can't exist now there are many things in many ways and reasons why I think that people do suffer and is a broader answer to the Odyssey we have to be careful as Ellen White cautioned us that we do not always understand what is happening my grandmother you know I don't happen to you I don't know why I do not want to presume that there is some grand test at stake here I think that when the tests are clear that God will reveal clearly what is going on and God does judge some people for as acts of judgment and usually makes that very very very clear and that we can suffer what I would call a general evil for example when friends suffer and I suffer along with them why am I suffering you know as well and suffering because of them and whenever circumstances whatever acne away whatever may be tied up with their life I suffer with them and then again there's no answer to that in other than the fact that I care about them and we also can suffer and this is a very complex one and I am going to share this because it really change the way that I think about it even though it is a little bit different than Joe but I think that it is has some parallels that are important and it will come from the life of Abraham and some of you may have not are not heard or read these words before because the doctor often ignored but unfortunately they come from the Pentagon white and it has to do with four good and that this is remarkable about the changing the minds I do have another side to that it is often permitted Israelites was again to try Dusty Glen just such a way as Jonah strives to be comforted with the thought that in one way or another it to one degree or are less we all may suffer in the Joseph Rodman Job 's friends came to him and then reminding him of his sins and errors that he was suffering because the device plus they were doing a work that was not that was wholly uncalled for so remember that when you are interacting with and engaging with other people around you I remember that you need to really know even more than the friends I do that on when someone is suffering that is because they've done something wrong unlimited time and a place when you ensure that but be careful be cautious and and usually know and maybe enlist the aid of the wisdom of others you need to know the goddess is telling you to share that with someone a job and during the test LOI does refer to it as a test but he proves true to God that was what Goss testified Job was was all about the fact that Job would prove true God after his trial his blessings were manifold and in this particular instance God did so see that the prosperity that would attend the closing years of his life I would give the enemy and all of us no opportunity to exult over the former misfortunes of God 's faithful servant so they did matter that in this case you would be restored and blessed and so the answer to Satan 's question from Job one from the prologue from behind the curtain doesn't jive Job fair God for nothing think about the question carefully does Job fear God for nothing what is the correct answer to this question and think about what might be the appropriate answer this is a trick question does Job fear God for nothing know why you know that is the question why health and wealth that's right I know a because of who God is and has right because of who God is a Mesozoic so amazing when you saw Joe's words that I think about this think about this when in your life when Job is willing to say basically the same chapter that it is God to know and invited parallel to know at this consecutive discourses that that God is the one who is her outline his arrows against me and yet I have treasured his words and because I really know that is I know who God is because I know his character and what about God is more important to me how we appears or who he is how he appears or who he is and I think that this lesson has important ramifications for us as Adventists as we encounter the last days and the world we live in is that who is what is our question is our question about are we depending upon God revealed himself right now and write you here in whatever in my life as the all-knowing all-powerful God is the one of lightning bolts and and so forth or are we more concerned with Robert God revealing himself to his character are we more concerned with revealing you know to the church awesomeness in large conferences just in their own for their own sake while we more concerned with actually reviewing and understanding who God really is so is God more concerned with his power and his knowledge really pay his answers were yes he says I am these things make no doubt about it have no doubt in your mind that I am all-knowing and I am all-powerful and it doesn't matter down for me has gone to have these things it does matter but what really matters is that God has a moral character and that the moral dimension of God is outside of all of this cause-and-effect health and wealth world that is around us world of sin is saturated the world if of everyday living is saturated with the humans strive for gold and silver jobs degrees wealth and health that is what we are obsessed with that is the only thing that the worldly knowledge is even exists in fact that's the only thing that Satan was good knowledge really exist Satan does not want to acknowledge that there is another dimension of God God says the stigmatization yes I am the all-knowing when I am not powerful one make no mistake about that but there is another dimension to what God is interested in and so when Satan answers the Lord our Satan in our response to the Lord does Job you got nothing God 's responses let's see you know and Ann Jobson Jobes your attitude is is yes I serve God not because of who God is even if he appears to need differently I serve God because of who he really is his moral side and that is what really matters I want to and I have just enough time I think to make it through this sure another story of someone who suffered a lot not as much throughout in the is life quite as much as Job but it does matter and it does draw some parallels to how we view God and why how we view God make such a difference in how we view the type system of circumstances and sufferings that we may encounter and of course the diversity of sufferings as are incident and you how it applies to us is always a personal matter but some I want to point toward Abraham may remember the story of Abraham and the he had a pretty severe ordeal to did if you remember Mount riot is Chapter twenty two we had to offer his son Isaac as a sacrifice was that not at that time a Jovian moments it he couldn't believe what God is asking to do this was agonizing this was agonizing to Job and writing I will read all these quotes but some of you know Abraham believed God as is noted afterwards and it was imputed unto him for righteousness and he was called the friend of God so as Abraham passed the test suffering was given but now you know I will go on your modern realities there are many ways that we can field understanding the relation of faith and works LOI has implications on only believing in Christ those Christians assail me believe in and be saved and I think it has been determined to not be an adequate picture you can only believe you must also have obedience and and Abraham manifested that a genuine faith will be manifested obedience and through type and promise I got preach the gospel to Abraham and I will not read that the rest of this I hope you do know the story Genesis twenty two and the offering but I wanted to point at this it was to impress this is something trucks approximate to impress Abraham 's mind with the reality of the gospel as well as to test his faith in God commanded him to slay his son now I don't think there's a new in here that has not grasped that side of the story that there was a test of his faith that that is why God commanded him to slay his son and it was to press therefore through this the example of the reality of the gospel you know we know the anti- type and how this is used to demonstrate God 's love for his son and so forth so we can see that the parallels these are somewhat well-known however got also Ellen White notes God to start approve the loyalty of his servant before all heaven at the demonstrated nothing less than perfect obedience can be accepted into open before heaven before Angels and before men and angels of the plan of salvation and she goes again at the top started reading it added his late at night they are long the sacrifice required a RAM was not alone for his own good north solar to the benefit of succeeding generations but it was for also for the instruction the sinless intelligences of heaven and another was never really focused on that side of it and it really wasn't just for men and for us everyday human posterity of those who were gone but was also helping angles understanding at that time in human history the Angels were still struggling to understand what was going on and on about that side of it is pretty awesome what God is doing through through Abraham and all heaven beheld with wonder and admiration Abraham 's unfaltering obedience all have in a plot of his fidelity Satan 's accusations were shown to be false is represented by the same claim of Abraham that it made a joke that he would not pass the tests and that heaven saw that Abraham would when God required of him I'd have been difficult even for the Angels to grasp the mystery of retention are they needed this lesson from humans to understand that God could work with humans to inspire them to see who he really was in obedience to him was of paramount significance now this is where I'm going again and add in the new twist that you may not have hurt this is actually repeating a couple of places of the suicides the Times May three eighteen ninety nine but Ellen White writes that sense also desired ages so it essentially located in one of her most prominent books but the only sunny from here she has slightly adjusted wording of before Abraham was I am Abraham greatly desire to see the Messiah in his day and did you know did you know that Abraham offered up the most earnest prayer that he might see him before he died to recall that part of Abraham 's mind and this is no relationship of God did you know that Abraham prayed that he might see the Messiah before he died Abraham prayed to see this Abraham wanted to see this Abraham desired most earnestly in his heart to see the site before he died okay well God didn't quite have that in his plan for Abraham to survive all the way through to see the Christ but he did have a plan to get him almost there in L why write that Abraham saw Christ a supernatural light was given and ended knowledge Christ divine character he had a distinct view of Christ the Messiah he saw his day and was glad he was given a view of the divine sacrifice for sin it was Jesus Christ that it promised him look now toward heaven hence tell me if you can see that the count the number of a mini sediment and socializing the but Abraham was tested this is all continuing along and Ellen White's flow here Abraham was just divine command came in to take a sent his only son Isaac and offered as a sacrifice upon and on which God would show him only what agony of conflicting emotion Abraham bowed at the foot of the altar which he had reared for Jehovah praying for life but the more he prayed the doctor his mind became he heard the command take now thy son I only son Isaac on the loudest and get thee into the land of Mariah and offer him there for a burnt offering and he thought of the promise as a stars social ICD yet he was on his way to sacrifice this star son of his in whom this hope was centered with his own hand the divine command came that he must cut off the only hope of having this promise made true but as Abraham stood with my cup race to obey God 's hand was stayed I heard a voice saying lay not thine hand upon the lad neither do without anything to him for now I know that now fears God now I know it in the relational dynamics of God speaking it's amazing that God is a relational God he does not merely resting his contentment in his divine foreknowledge which is another complex topic that I cover little bit before but he is a relational God now I know that you are not withheld and Ellen White shares that this terrible ordeal was imposed upon Abraham that he might see the day of Christ in other words he might have the answer to what he wanted have you ever thought of the sacrifice of his son as the answer to his most earnest prayer have you ever thought of it that way now I'm not saying this in anonymous surveys after suffering should be thought of this way I hope that I'm clearly not saying that but have you ever thought assisted the importance of the moral dimension in what our hearts should be desiring and how that reorients the way we think about the commonsense world the wealth and health world that we don't think about those things in the same way anymore those things then before us when we really understand and desire God God is immortal God wisdom is located somewhere else outside of their quest for gold and silver and man's obsessive work toward it this javelin it was imposed upon Abraham that he might see the day of Christ implied had his prayer answered and realize the great love of God for the world so great that to raising from his degradation he gave his only begotten son for most shameful death so Abraham had his prayer answered the Angels had their intellectual curiosity satisfied all that God might reveal who he really is the veil between God and the mystery and God the God that we know is his character is not how we appears it is not how Satan makes him appear more important more more accurately does not help seeing makes them appear to West it is God 's moral character and that he wants us to know there are aspects to the divine mystery that we will never understand Ellen White warned us that Dayton 's one of his masterpieces is to always be tempting us to probe deeper into things that we may not understand but there is one thing that we can know and that is what God is wearing is what he is and that is his character and that is what really really counts there is nothing else more important than God 's moral character and what is it remember Job twenty eight the fear of the Lord that is the beginning of wisdom and to depart from evil is is understanding exactly and so when you want to think about questions of theodicy another way of summarizing this is that philosophy your rational reasonings will never get there because rational reasonings exclude morality morality is a dimension of reality that philosophical questionings about theodicy cannot penetrate you can't get there however when we really care about when we submit to God we are more interested in his moral aspects inside his character who he really is what is really only will begin to the different and I hope that that that point is to show ourselves differently I does morality in Iraq became Abraham 's definitely affected in effect until the Internet listen to influence the system size integrity is not I will send him to you dismissively waving him I think you may see you supporting Mimi Stephen the sentence he added he states he seems I you young to be knighted by relief in Christ oriented Christians to download the pictures other resources like this please visit us I am coming my C I

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