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7- Straw Man Arguments in Favor of Women's Ordination

Eugene Prewitt
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Eugene Prewitt

Eugene Prewitt directs the Bible Teacher Training hosted by Aenon.

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  • October 2, 2014
    7:30 PM
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I welcome you back to our symposium on women's ordination we have heard so many interesting and varied arguments in favor of the truth in this program here are a few very arguments in favor of something other than the truth of the title of my talk here would be answering straw man arguments and weak arguments in favor of women's ordination and I don't believe in being argumentative but I do believe a look at the Bible and ask God to help us if you're able to unwilling new with me and will have a prayer the star session our father in heaven you are well able to make your Bible to be food for us you can teach us what is true we ask for your spirit to guide us in the name of Jesus amen turn your Bibles to Proverbs chapter one Roberts chapter one we've just pray that the Spirit would guide us I want to show you one most beautiful promises and all of the Bible Proverbs one verse twenty three turn and you have my reproof behold I will pour out my spirit unto you I will make known my words unto you don't you love that promise the promise of God would pour out his Spirit and then help you to understand his Bible Belt those two go together receiving the spirit and understand the Bible and you see there's a condition in this promise that you can't just go in claim the promise of God will pour his spirit on you and teach you but the condition is that you turn when you receive correction that when you're going one way and God says turn a different way that you go ahead and make that adjustment as long as we're willing to be guided by God 's correction he's going to continue teaching the house and filling us with the spirit if you wonder why we end up splintering in our view is why we end up going so may different directions on final things it's because we are not in the habit of turning when he corrects us trade Bibles to first Corinthians chapter one first Corinthians chapter one maybe you could say this is my opportunity to preach but I didn't get to share in an art panel discussion and I will do it first Chris James chapter one in verse twenty hello start verse nineteen for it is written I will destroy the wisdom of the wise and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent where is the wise where is the scribe where is the disputes are of this world Paul is asking where are they located if you were there located the answer would change from day-to-day but he's asking in relation to truth where are they are the people who are the real the world wise man the world 's Google rule is the greatest rabbis are those people more in harmony with viable truth and others where are the people who are gifted dispute in arguing where are the or raters are they more accurate than the other person 's look at the end of verse twenty has not God made was a say has not God made the list the wisdom of this world for after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe the idea here is simple is that God wants his word to be the source of truth he wants us to come to the Bible for our instruction for our authority and when men become exalted so that they considered their own knowledge to make them a source of light but the man's feels that because he is so educated that you ought to believe what he has to say that man is confusing the issue God never intended that we would depend on men for their wisdom so she and his wisdom that is in God 's wisdom he designed that so that the common man would have equal access to the truth and even those were the world 's greatest man would have nothing than anybody else what comes to knowing what is right turning one more page to chapter two first Corinthians chapter two in verse four to six will be talking about weak arguments in a minute but for some like to mention a few strong ones verse for its size and my speech that's Paul's speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom was Paul capable of speaking with human oratory certainly is capable of that and he could have done in such a way that you've been drawn to listen to him speak but he says but it wasn't demonstration of the Spirit and of power that your faith should not stand in what in the wisdom of man but in the power of God Paul said that she did not want you to have your your ideas founded on his great wisdom and because of that he willfully refused to give it was the kind of complex oration or fancy speech that might Brian think that he is a great speaker he wanted you to think that the gospel is a great gospel that Jesus is a great Savior but it wasn't on his list of things to do for you to think that Paul was a great speaker he said that he did not use the words of your faith would not stand in the wisdom of men but in the power of God when we talk about just now weak arguments by week I mean the kind of arguments that it seems to me sensible people would not use we talk about with arguments in favor of women's ordination when I talk about strawmen arguments that that might need some explaining very few of these have originated with any other source than the people we read about in chapter one the people or raiders of the world the wise describes it was that very class of people that God said we should not depend on them you're how God spoke to Jeremiah about this curse it is the man the trust is then man and maketh flesh his arm and what is the natural result in that version July seventeenth what happens and you trust in men and make flesh independence says whose heart departed from the Lord were talking about women's ordination this issue is not the kind of complex issue in Scripture that requires some rates knowledge of even Greek and Hebrew to ascertain the meaning of the passages why do people multiply arguments one of my Audi caught a hobby that one of the things I do in life as I travel and speak you are right and I am often confronted with Don publications often look like half her ream of paper is designed to prove some interesting obscure and strange idea if you ever encounter the Shepherd 's Rod for example you will be approached not what the small volume of documentation with a large volume of documentation if you are checking out the man named earning all the CDs are true or false profit up five hopefully save you time until you use a false one but you might have to check that out yourself but if you were checking out Ernie and his followers provide you a great deal of documentation frequently a large volumes of documentation are needed to secure the fact that there is no good simple proof that he has an idea if you want to prove that we ought to keep the ten Commandments you can do it in one page but if you want to prove that we don't need to keep them you might need to write a large book and I used to have my own library a large book designed to prove the natural immortality of the soul it takes a lot of work to try to prove that from Scripture and if you could do it thoroughly I mean as thoroughly as it can be done when trying to say to you is that Bible truth ideally is simple and when an idea is repeated in Scripture in many places when you can find it in many places and you put those together even the simple man can understand it nevertheless I've been asked to talk about weak arguments I probably should get started have you heard some already today some weak arguments I think you heard a few of them this morning and was turned from Romans chapter sixteen and just look at a couple that we could say our review Romans chapter sixteen will look at a couple of weak arguments that we were referred about and then we'll talk about some straw man arguments and then get back to a few more week once Romans sixteen and verse one I commend unto you feed be our sister which is servant of the church was that which is absent Korea could your church is a servant I know the church where I live and use a servant someone who just gives their full-time service to doing what needs to be done for the local church you know Phoebe was serving the church at Saint Korea but she did something also for the church at Rome looked down at verse twenty seven two God only wise be glory through Jesus Christ for ever a man written to the Romans from court parenthesis and sent by Phoebe 's servant of the church at Sentry when Paul wrote a letter to the Romans how did he get it to them now he said that with this lady my sense with her he asked that they would respect her but to build off of this simple passage an idea that because she was a servant and because that word survey could be translated some other ways similar to that that word deacon we heard about this morning and brother 's work is sermon the fact that that were determined to be used that way is such a weak argument when you take your Young's literal Chris's meteoric Young's concordance new look up that word deacon and try to see how it's used in many portions of the Faisal you find what English are with us that the word servant is used frequently to mean servant look at verse seven you're still Romans sixteen look at verse seven salute Andrew nightdress and Julia my kinsman and my fellow prisoners who are of note among the apostles who also weren't Christ before me I preach from this first sometimes but it has to do with that phrase in Christ do you see in verse seven the to be in Christ must be something related to being a Christian otherwise it could be that one person could be in Christ before someone else's and that's relevant and some other theological discussions but can you imagine Paul finding out that someone reading verse seven would think that Judy was herself an apostle if in fact it was her Christmas it was just to avoid what discussion let's just say in verse seven that it's ambiguous that either Junior is well known to the apostles were Junior is an apostle but you know and the other forty times the word apostle is used in the New Testament it is a ambiguous any other time that it means the twelfth whenever its apostles plural the apostles that means the twelve and are you to say that if the apostles always means the twelve and right here it's ambiguous and then want to take the end ability to turn into an argument in favor of women's ordination how can I describe how that strikes me if you're going to try to tell me or proved me an idea items I suspect that your Dennis start out with two or three of your very best arguments and if I find out your first three arguments have nothing to them I almost have a hard time taken enough time to hear the rest of the things you have to say that makes sense to anyone entering the say to if someone has to resort to Romans sixteen seven to make an argument in favor of women's ordination the very argument itself is evidence against the position that it's being used to defend it says that I have to pull and stretch and twist and turn to find some fodder for my Canon will come back to some weak arguments but I want to talk about strongman tactics strongman so this is a metaphor you try to understand the idea that if you want to beat up a strongman you have a hard time he might beat you up but if you can construct a straw man you know amendment out of like hey any one of the two of you can be sure there will be no reprisal so that frequently an argument people like to attack their opponents by making up some idea in pretending that belongs to him and then attacking the idea and proven that it's foolishness and what they hope to do is that people think that if the idea is foolishness her opponent must be foolish and is called a strongman tactics because your opponent really doesn't even believe the foolish idea the understand the idea of a strawman argument you know when you will see the example do I believe that women should be paid with the highest money for doing ministry I do I believe in your own license is so plainly she describes how even Haskell 's wife and the wife some other ministers were doing Bible work that they were doing the work equal to that of their husband they should be paid and compensated in a way that square I believe that the people I know that were with me on this panel just a few moments ago I think to the man and to the woman that they all believe that but yet you would hear advocates women's ordination talking about their opponents as if they don't believe in fair compensation for the work that women do as if they're trying to avoid sharing their salaries with women as if they don't really believe in including women and doing a large one of ministry and when you circle talking about this issue let's just all agree that we all want to see more women involved in ministry more women paid from the tithe more Bible workers in there used to be but certainly more than there are now it's a straw man argument to make us look like we don't believe in women in ministry are fair compensation gives running west from an argument now it's in potential into us an argument that doesn't represent us et al. what about the idea that those who oppose women's ordination take everything with a wooden literalism that phrase a wooden literalism has stuck with me ever since I heard someone say it on a YouTube video is just stuck there except I was talking about me and my all my heart was perhaps not me I believe in metaphors in Scripture I believe in it and illustrations in the Bible when I see a dragon Revelation twelve I don't think it represents a Dragon to talk to talk about those who oppose women's ordination as if they are wooden literalists is a straw man argument the truth is that we're trying to come the Scripture we find a metaphor to see that it is a metaphor because the context says it's a metaphor when we find a sailboat with enough as a symbol because of something that you can find in the passage but when we find nothing like that we want to be ready to be like William Miller the say to take the passage in its most obvious meaning we've heard that a phrase for a summer that I treated the real document this morning to take the obvious meaning is not a wooden literalism it's an approach that matches the way the Bible was written because the Bible was written for common men in common man are not within literalist the opponents of ornament women's ordination are not either I hope you can see when talking about we don't need to terror apart the use the straw man arguments because there's nothing to them they are strawmen I don't know anyone who opposes women's ordination because he takes everything he reads the Bible it as a literal non- metaphorical nonsymbolic statement or even because he would it comes to Romans sixteen was just look at that for a minute you're still there aren't you Romans sixteen salutes or you can start almost anywhere you prices were smooth like twenty five times in this passage juicy it almost everywhere you're looking and one of them says saloons one another with a holy kiss but did you see which verse number that is as I don't have verse sixteen salute one another with a holy just the churches of Christ salutes you when you look at back at verse fifteen you see about your owner is near to reduce crime names allowed her to the Lola Dennis Giuliana their rias when you see names like that isn't it obvious that those names were real people and a literal local situation that the context of the verse is just before and after this are all literal and local greetings then up are we making a stretch to say that we come to verse sixteen that here is an obvious literal local application and that what we learn from these passages is that we ought to care for our brothers and other churches we have to care to acknowledge them when we write letters we opted maybe we ought to do that more and we do take care for people at a distance or time to say enough I said too much about it already is it wooden literalist might exist in West Virginia and carry snakes but they aren't inside the Adventist church opposing women's ordination do I really believe that all men have authority over all women know I do not I'll say to you man right here in the audience that not one of you has authority over my wife I do not think for a minute and I don't think anyone behind me on this panel had the idea that all women this is all men listen that isn't the reason that we oppose women's ordination is not because of some strange construct that would say that that males are the superiors on the planets it's because we come the Bible we find instructions and we take them seriously even if we don't agree on why God gave the instruction we don't start with why we start with how do we obey but let me explain this to you again if your mother ask you to dust the furniture it might because she wants to teach you some discipline it might be because gas are coming that might be because you neglected to do it yesterday it might be because there's been a dust storm but none of those are relevant it should ask you to dust the furniture what should you do you should dust the furniture that you get into a discussion afterwards about why you had to do it maybe everyone can agree and maybe not when we come to the question of women's ordination instructions are not obscure so the first thing we do is agree to obey them know maybe afterwords we can also agree on why God gave them what the benefits are what are the purposes but you see that whether we agree on the Y is not relevant to the first question that we start with obedience and then come to the Y but whatever the case not of us think that the why is because all men are in charge of all women that is just a strawman argument I don't know anyone who advocates it least I don't know that I know anyone advocates it and if I find out I do know someone they will not get close to Heidi I do not believe that there are more than the alternate head of the church when the seminar document cannot recently about headship and I read it I got this feeling that I was being that I don't say I personally but I represent a body of people who oppose women's ordination the art was being fingered as someone who almost believed that my pastor is on a peer level with the Savior but I don't believe the house I don't know anyone that believes that when we say that we believe that there's headship in the church are not just making it all up but I told by my friends and that the eligible initial study committed I'd be happy to use the word leadership considered headship of the make someone happy because that's all I mean by the word had when I read it in the New Testament is just leader and it's very clear to me that when when you have Jesus as the head of the church he never intended that the church be organized as a work every person takes the orders directly from him uniquely I mean if it was that way everyone would be a prophet you know even when the apostle Paul was converted that God did not I give him all his instructions personally but he sent into the church to get some instruction that Paul when he speaks in Galatians about how he tried to deal with some church complicated issues about Judaism he talked about those who seem to be somewhat in the church now he went to them privately in first Corinthians season in acts fifteen there is obviously church order and structure as a straw man argument to say that when we talk about leadership in the church that were usurping the usurping the authority of Lord Jesus I don't know of a anymore unkind way to pick sure my view of my relation to Jesus than to say I put him in a pure level with one of my pastors or ministers on the layperson myself the presence of straw man arguments should not too a critical thinker should not be evidence in favor of the person who uses them and I don't want to make a strawman argument out of strawman arguments so let me just say that not everyone who favors women's ordination resorts to these kinds of methods not everyone is using it these kind of arguments but I would say that if you don't use anything like the weak arguments or these arguments you don't have a lot left over to use and I think that what you do have left over will be discussed reputedly this weekend and will be settled on those issues one thing about the strawmen arguments is that they have an emotional contents that is when you talk about Jesus being the only head of the church and that polls don't qualify and of course Jesus said don't call any man the father or rabbi when you when you have this truth isn't this a deep-seated Protestant truth that Jesus is the head of the church I mean it's it's fundamental when you talk about the way some are talking about it so that puppet where it looks like that those who oppose women's ordination are almost trying to get up on that level and that's going to raise some emotion it's going to rate some I recall that zeal some zeal to stop those who want to exalt themselves over their brother zeal to put down that kind of arrogance that would try to be on a level with Jesus the reminds me of what it says in Romans ten where Paul trying to speak as positively as he can he says speaking of his own relatives as I bear them witness but they do have a zeal that he says but not according to knowledge we don't want ACL that comes from our reaction to emotional arguments the idea that women deserve equal pay if that raises some emotion in you that's fine with me because it's true the argument that Jesus is really the only alternate head of the church if you have slow motion they are that's okay with me because that's true if you believe that we should have more women not less working in ministry you have some emotion there I'm okay with that because that's true but don't let that legitimate emotion be attached to the strawman argument because then the emotion might be aimed at me when I agree with you on every one of those accounts emotional arguments create invitations and sometimes animosity against sound biblical teachings in other words when you hear those kind of faulty arguments and you begin to think about about fairness and equality you can get to the point when you hear a legitimate Bible truth it's just tasteful to you I was at a meeting on this topic small group meeting was organized so that in every small group there'd be people that had varying views this was part of the theology of ordination study committee that we had this meeting and died in this particular meeting we were going to be discussing first Corinthians eleven and fourteen our moderator a nice person socially didn't get a chance to look at those two chapters until just a minute I mean in terms of that day until just a few minutes before our meeting began and I was sitting at the table when the moderator opened and read first convince eleven to see what passes remember discussing the kind that shielded the gender of the moderator but the moderators sad I don't like this passage when trying to tell you his watch that in yourself you don't want faulty arguments to rake in you a just taste for Bible truths you don't want to have an approach to Scripture that allows you to decide whether or not you like it or not you want an approach to Scripture to see whether or not it approves of you are not if it doesn't approve of you within what a wonderful opportunity you have problems one sad dear Rick Mercer three we read it turn you at my reproof behold I will pour out my spirit unto you I will make known my words unto you that is our chance and we don't like the says but we submit to it anyway when we turn our lives to harmonize with what we read that is when God pours out his spirit must talk about a few more weak arguments look at Psalm sixty eight if you have a King James Bible like I do you won't see this argument in your Bible but I'll tell you about it anyway because probably you should be able to see it Psalm sixty eight and I think it's verse five millimeters find it here was first eleven Psalms sixty eight in verse eleven the Lord gave the word and great was the company of those that published it the reason doesn't show up in your King James version the key idea is because in English the word company is gender-neutral that his company could be a company of boys or a company of girls are a company of boys and girls but here it's very plain that it's feminine in the Hebrew and saw some translations are going to say great was the company of ladies who published it and don't you see a powerful argument in favor of women's ordination let me back you up for just a minute because you should know that this is one of the favorite verses of many of the ladies who worked to promote the three Angels messages between eighteen eighty and nineteen fifty you know there were many churches during periods of that time that were spurred by more ladies than by men now is because of many ladies entered the workforce is canvassers a number of ladies were doing Bible work on commission to Haskell 's wife that he already and the canvassers particularly liked this verse in the King James because what's the permanent published right so that this verse was used by canvassing ladies and canvassing men all over the planet it was their favorite bars great was the company of those who published but none of them ever thought that that meant they ought to be ordained to be the overseers of the church this just isn't an argument in favor of overseas overseers being girls is an argument in favor of ladies being helpful and we all agree on the house turned to jolt chapter two I hesitated a little bit whether to include this in weak arguments because sleep shall consider this a strong one and if I was very honest with you every argument there and favor women's ordination seems to me to be a weak argument but after thinking that you carefully I concluded that this ought to be in the week argument section jolt chapter two for one to look at verse twenty eight what is most precious promises in the entire Old Testament it says and it shall come to pass afterward I will pour out my Spirit upon all flash and your sons and your daughters will prophesy and your old men will dream dreams and your young man it will see visions would you agree with me that when the lettering is poured out that it will be gender neutral trick to clear the passages in its and what you I would agree that's going to be a engine neutral that there might even be children and that received the outpouring of the Holy Spirit you think there might even be in the legs that received the outpouring of the Holy Spirit there might be persons that when God pours out his Spirit on all flash when he shows us that wonderful outpouring of his spirit is going to be pervasive and I am glad but let me ask you will that be a brand-new saying or has gone in the past poured out his Spirit on children and ladies and even old ladies and old men I think you know the answer when Jesus was just a little baby was filled with the spirit he was he wasn't the only one what about his causing was John filled with the spirit was he qualified as an infant to be the overseer of a church I just want you to see that the spirit is not the only qualification and when Jesus was taken to Jerusalem and was there for dedication there was a man they are of varying width will call him an elder and elder man wasn't there there also a very old woman where they filled up the spirits I don't know how fit are able they were at that stage to take oversight of the church I want to comment about this maybe they were at their how old was that lady assumed she was also a hundred years old it seems to me that feasibly maybe the age that even could've been but it looks to me also like the man was ready to die isn't that we had to say after he held Jesus Lord now let your server go in peace does the Bible doesn't have examples of penal profits are only of female mothers are there and there are number of penal profits right so that you try to tell you is that when the latter rain has poured out it's going to be a beautiful thing it's got accomplished a great deal and there's part of me wants to stop preaching about women's ordination even right now discouragement and ready for the letter rain is so much more matches when inclined to do not tell you it's not than being new in terms of age and gender it's just what is been dominant since times immemorial that God pours out his spirit than those for ready money read him Proverbs one when we turn he pours out his Spirit upon us even Proverbs wine is gender-neutral ladies you can have more of God 's Spirit but if it's nothing new to have got spirit poured out on children then it doesn't teach us anything about the question of women being ordained to the position of overseer I think you know that both in the Reformation even the Millerite movement I knew that God used children under the Scandinavia right now is still well known in some parts of Scandinavia about this event it was so is so significant when it happened but it ended that ended up in the the talk of the people and when I was there just a little over a year ago by the people still know about the time when the children began to preach like adults when God moved upon the children even to give the first Angels message but you know after they were removed to preach in the very language of the first Angels message fear God and give glory to him after the old sermon then they acted very much like children when I qualify to take the oversight of churches know God has given us instructions for us to follow in choosing who is to take the oversight of churches trying to avoid being hyper repetitive sub window to the next one Adam and Eve women they sent they were naked it doesn't seem that they were ashamed to be naked in each other 's presence after they sent but they were ashamed to be naked in the presence of a third party and when they knew that God was coming they sewed together leaves to make an apron but when God came he wasn't satisfied with that dubiously modest apparel and he made for them to an ex- or codes out of skin and it had to break their hearts to see an animal die and maybe that was in fact I think it probably was the first death in the history of the universe of an animal that could have an emotion and it was done by God himself it had to be a serious time for Adam and Eve when they were covered with those skins let's turn back to that passage in Genesis without me I didn't write down the passage liquor to find Genesis Chapter three and verse twenty one onto Adam also and to his wife did the Lord God make coats of skins and clothed them I was far too briefly here about a hermeneutic because if I don't explain it you won't even see how this could be an argument for anything because there are people who seriously teach that verse twenty one is evidence that Eve was ordained a priest and you can reverse twenty one as much as you want and you're probably not going to see it so I want to tell you how they got there because for them it's not a joke it's a very serious approach to Bible study I think it's misguided at the very most fundamental level just universe twenty one that it does talk about skins and you see there does talk about coats about clothes to be enclosed and do you know that there are other parts the Bible talk about clothing and skins the next one year to come to would be in connection with the sanctuary and related entrée to find some of the next references to death I mean you could kill an animal for the purpose of making clothing and you could kill an animal for the purpose of offering a sacrifice but to take the fact that animals are killed for sacrifice and that the priests wear special clothes and undertake the fact that the same words are used in this verse and to use it to say that Eve was consecrated priest well I'm telling you is that is not the way a common man approaches the Bible you could look for other passages about God speaking or addressing issues of modesty are helping that man with their sin problem for providing covers of righteousness you'd find so much material in Genesis three that would be enriching to you but when you connect passages that don't have any inherent bearing on each other because they use the same words do see that this argument this type of reasoning matches better with verbal inspiration than it does with stock inspiration the idea that that special code words or keywords are used in apparently unrelated passages to show us that they relate to each other that idea matches well with that evangelical idea that God gave the Bible by dictation but difference that God gave the idea to Moses that she prepared to annex out of scans to clothe Adam and Eve in the mullahs has used the words that made sense to him that were in his mind you know you might use the very same words for that that he would use later to describe the clothing of priests I mean how many words were there in Hebrew for clothing people I feel like saying more about this but I don't want to put you to sleep but if you find in one of my letters I say come to my front door and when you get to the entrance go ahead and open it by the knob I hope that you would not think that the reason I use the word door and the word entrance differently those two words is because I want you to catch the subtle difference between them it might be I use a variety in my writing but when people have this verbal concept of inspiration they often abuse Scripture by looking for those kind of subtle differences were none were ever intended by the prophet at all and then if you use those to try to make connections anyway it's nonsense I want you to see is what you can read Genesis three yourself and you'll find no evidence that he was a priest even before she was kicked out of the Garden was as before she was kicked out of the Garden there was no evidence that she was a priest to act in her own behalf in the time of her rejection for her sin let's turn to ask chapter eighteen acts chapter eighteen is a passage is referred to often in lithotripsy and promoting women's ordination is not very often quoted that is there's a reference made to it but the words in the verse are not in the reference highlight sentences given and then in parentheses the reference but rarely is it that's about three times so you understand it look at verse twenty six and he began to speak boldly in the synagogue that he there would be Apollo 's and he began to speak boldly in the synagogue one acquittal and Priscilla had heard they took him unto them expounded on to him the way of God more perfectly do you see evidence they are well was the overseer of Apollo 's that she was the elder appointed to teach him Christian doctrine there's nothing like that there et al. with the passage shows is a couple ministry acquittal and Priscilla together and were they doing together is it formal or informal education you know it's in its informal education I took them to him privately and instructed him in the way of the Lord to take this beautiful passage of a godly couple notes in a talented man preaching without the full knowledge of truth in the godly couple engage in a conversation and bringing him privately giving him Bible studies and to use that to say that we are to ordain women to be elders is to accidentally teach a very foolish idea is to teach the only ordained people ought to give Bible studies like that and I don't want you to go away advocating that you need ordination to get Bible studies I don't have my been ordained as a local elder but before surgeons local elder items given studies I hope that you never get ordained as anything that you will get studies and Priscilla Gay studies because they knew the gospel and saw a man that didn't know it and they mentored him together there is a danger in what I'm doing I hope that you will not be affected by we talk about weak arguments we might be tempted to read into them willful and is not true the people who use weak arguments are she can be generally described as willfully ignorant more often is that their minds are clouded and they've been trained by a system that leads them to look to man as a source of authority and because they been look into man as a source when they find men that are gifted at speaking gifted at writing when they find a consensus among the wise men it seems that we don't know that question we started with where is the scribe where is the wise man where is the disputes are of this world if we don't know the answer that question then we look in the consensus we begin to feel comfortable with ideas that they're promoting that's not sensible and tell me and tell we give real test twice thoughts will never know just how strong they are the ten Commandments are written in gender specific language that commands there is that thou shall not covet thy neighbor 's wife but I think ladies that you know that it would also be wrong for you to covet your neighbor 's husband and someone a number of people in noticing that gender neutrality that's hidden under that gender specifically in the ten Commandments of thought if we didn't have the ten Commandments why don't we do that more generally with other passages if we do it even if that the ten Commandments themselves written with the finger of God that all authority if we are once inside the human patient be understood in a gender-neutral and gender-neutral way why don't we do that in first Timothy two and three now I bring this up because I hear this argument in a way the answer has to be redundant because it was sent very eloquently by our panelists just an hour ago but nonetheless Jim Emerson the things they said would become the first Timothy Chapter two Chapter three do we find that the gender statement are all the statements masculine they are so so that we could easily think of them as applied to men and women were other gender specific statements in first Timothy two and three why there are more gender specific statements in person at the two and three and concentration than anywhere else I know in the entire New Testament they are just there back and forth net in women and when if I say to you in common conversation that all you guys can come to my house for lunch probably you would understand that to be gender neutral and you should be happy my wife is a good cook in that context because I don't mention guys and gals because of what I say the gender neutrality is kind of a parent but if I said I want the guys to take off their shoes but the gals can keep them on you would never make the word dies gender-neutral the context would tell you that there is gender specific I came to that word you know the what I'm trying to come up with its gender specific that's the way it is first Timothy chapter two in chapter three the reason that we don't read their gender neutrality is because we can't do it without losing our commonsense approach to the Scripture were not denying that there is gender gender neutrality in Scripture but were saying that it's apparent without a lot of trouble in most cases whether you should understand the passage that way or not so no one speaking to the YouTube audience and everything in me is inclined to say does anyone have any questions I can just see action and do that but you know if you do have questions there is a book that's been published by amazing facts called it's called women's ordination thirty one biblical arguments and answers all to read it if you still have questions you think it through because I don't know any argument that doesn't have a solid Bible answer and if you don't want to spend the money to buy it I think amazing facts and still be happy if I told you that there are several free places online reading get that book is that a mobile format or PDF I can't go to the end of my list of weak argument somebody mentioned you the book so instead of going and let me just review a couple key ideas phase is taking God at his word righteousness is by faith righteousness is by taking God at his word Jesus said that man should not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds in the mouth of God that's in the Bible three times that idea also the Bible says the just shall live by faith either there are two ways to live by faith and by every word or else those are the same idea that's what faith is faith is living by every word one when Congress Scripture of humbling we take it as it reads when we let it correct us when we turned when it tells us to turn that is when God pours out his Spirit on office that is when he teaches us the meaning of his Bible and that is when the weak arguments will Lewis they're a fact that is when the strawman arguments will mean nothing Hamas the Bible will teach us the truth in this media was brought audio is a website dedicated to spreading God 's word through reading sermon audio and much more we would like to know more about our universe this is more so than please visit www. .com universe .org

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