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Salvation: Question and Answer Session

Dennis Priebe



  • April 26, 2008
    7:00 PM
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front row you that ability I have a question regarding your statement seeming to argue a civil rights commercial sins yes hi what are your views on the book is Romer mine hunt Lisa justifications and fifty five editor that book is Rober mine is a very popular book in the Seventh-day Adventist church right now it is being handed out free to anyone who wants it at the major G Y C meetings that have been held around the United States it is always there is handed out regularly and it is I've talked to many people who are been blessed by people get whole boxes of books to hand out to their churches this is an Adventist author he has died he wrote the book is Rober mine before he died and it is now been printed and is being circulated widely as in all books of this kind there is much good as I went through the book carefully I went from the middle chapters about chapter three and four right on through probably chapter seventeen or eighteen I forget how many chapters in the book but as I read through the middle chapters it talked about how we can ever relationship with Christ I'll bring how we can have a prayer experience how we can do all the things which are very important and necessary all very good stuff but you know how excited out the book started out by saying that we are born in the state of sand remember that big capital letters and that we are born in the state of San and therefore every act of our lives is a sin at and therefore the only thing that can actually be done is to forgive us of that sin and the only way we will stop sending is that this nature is ripped out of a somehow and it says that Jesus Christ did not have our nature therefore he could not be tempted as we are tempted on the same levels and therefore he was not an example to us together substitute for us so unfortunately what this book is doing is taking part as I'm going back now to our first meeting four years ago taking parts of the Adventist authentic gospel and why wouldn't part of the evangelical gospel born in sin Jesus wasn't tempted like we are justification more important than sanctification and putting them together in a very attractive way and so I'm going to suggest to you that this is one of the many many books that combines truth with error and if you can discern the truth from the error in the book you can read it profitably if you are not able to discern the truth from the error you will buy the error along with the true and you will find it very hard to find the real gospel experience so I would say that this is one of many books that are doing that again this one coming from a very conservative Bible believing spirit of prophecy believing individual who wants only the best for the Seventh-day Adventist church and he speaks very highly of the eighteen eighty eight message and the messengers that came and he wants us to be the fulfillment of that message all the intentions are good but my friends the evangelical gospel has soul swept in so inundated the thinking of the best of us in the Seventh-day Adventist church that we have unwittingly combined both of them together not knowing that they are two opposite Gospels that's the problem with his rover mine in every sorry again said Symantec thereby for his justification is that it was a condition of salvation ran neck high is that I had no rockets underneath nation definition of Miller justification is not a condition of salvation justification is salvation a condition of justification is repentance surrender obedience as a condition of justification justification is the act of God justification is this is applying legally and experientially his power is grace Christ merits to my account the justification is all his work the conditions that must be met for justification and the conditions that must be met for sanctification our willingness of obedience surrender etc. that's what I was behind it since the price thank you for clarifying because that is important to clarify over here there is a widow for sentence from home really like to say one by one those who have been among the opposition of Minneapolis company confession most deceptive and rejoice in the him preach it on these to you directly theoretically yes it is wise to have processing professor only deleted yes so my question is forget about the people that have the wrong doctrine but the people that has the right ducting do we believe the true all we profess or just have it to your point is very well taken because there were two kinds of responses to the eighteen eighty eight message one was genuine sincere heartfelt repentance for deny the gospel as preached by that and Ellen why did point to a number individuals who did that and then there were others who saw it was repenting one's of a symbol we better say the same thing even though down in our hearts we don't like them any better and we read about continual objections to Jones and not allowing them to speak in certain places etc. etc. the quibbling of the underground still went on so yes some did repent genuinely and some repented with their lips how does that relate to us well you've answered the question manager for are you accepting all of the truth that I have said here and saying yes this is right and yes we believe in the true authentic gap in this message and then not living in our lives will mean zero zip and in thing when I go to churches and give this mess my basic message on righteousness by faith I tell them that the end of that message it we have sorted out a doctrine of sin if we have sorted out the doctrine of the nature of Christ if we have sorted out a doctrine of perfection and we aren't doing any better in our lives we are agonizing for victory over sin and we are going to the Lord and helplessness in surrender and we've always been our time this whole weekend you and me because nothing about settling a doctrine will lead us to experience apart surrendered unless it is more than lip service were very good at lipservice and very much behind in heart surrender I think that's what you were trying to get out of your exactly right the same thing applies today as it did back then that it is an hard surrender listen there to be a lot of people and add venison and other Christians in heaven who haven't gotten certain teachings right I'll even go so far to say the nature of Christ there will be people in heaven who believe totally wrong on the nature of Christ but their hearts are so in love with Jesus Christ in their following him and he is the Lord of their life in their hearts are sealable by his seal and they will walk into the courts of heaven even if they are dead wrong on how Jesus lived in his life honor I will say that gives them a lot of problems that they will get good this led if they believe a false doctrine that the false doctrine is not as serious as the false heart and I am wondering on about growing in Grace are I really believe in there that you growers learn more and more and the Holy Spirit works with you you just don't slambang and become a when I noticed was the him him and are I don't like them he created with the devil yes because it seems like they're growing and not realize they are and that they are beyond compare he said let's is definitely not in charge of the later doing things at certain times when Peter denies Christ that's the double work the unit will when I noticed that the date they go on and on you and in this happen with that like Peter will then hand the cost comes along and so that gives me a little hope in my daily life I think the latter rain may help us a little just like his help Peter in MIA in the wrong okay enough thinking you're right and you're wrong here both million points here that are exactly right and then there are some things that I would like to suggest him the disciples they were converted they leave their deaths follow Jesus they left their income Matthew left the tax collectors lucrative salary to walk after Jesus with no hope of anything at all that's conversion and Jesus ordained them didn't he and he sent them out and they cast out devils and after that they were arguing about who was the greatest energies that the fate of Peter when our converted strengthen the brother so you see the disciples had a conversion experience than they cut it did what we all do they went back and Roman settlement will that an kind of know what the old combined with the movie old man combined with the new man and that you know that's why we say he lost his first law well we can't let the old creep back in the old nature the old feelings the old emotions creep back in and it sort of clouds our experience of it which we then began to do with the disciples that forget about what Jesus taught them go back into old habits and Jesus they we got to be reconverted now so the reality is God gives as much growing time he done in short at any point in a growing kind of the heart is surrendered we are safe in his hands he does give us growing time but you see they couldn't wait until the day of Pentecost when did Peter have his real conversion experience the night he denied Christ is meant where they go he went running out to the very spot in which Jesus had poured out his life in the Garden of Gethsemane and wept in agony for his sin went in agony and from that moment forward Peter was a totally different man and that's why when Jesus had become the Peter and he tells them three times and a challenge are you ready to feed my lambs such as my shape my little ones myself by my very beginning was finally Peter said yes I'm willing and so I'm going to suggest that the disciples had to have a turnaround hard experience before they ever got to the upper room they had to have an experience in which the former rain had pervaded their lives in total conversion so that when they got to the upper room and spent only a few days together in that upper room they spent all that time confessing sins one to another that they had done sometime in the past that it hurt other people so that there would be unity among God 's people a unified spirit no longer picking flaws in someone else but totally unified in one purpose and one goal and that's when what compares to the latter reign for eyes to be poured out upon their lives the former rain had to occur before the upper room experience on the day of Pentecost and then buy a few extra steps the latter rain could be poured out how does it work for us the former rain has to change is completely it have to dominate our lives in us to change our thinking and reconvert us maybe two or three times over and then when God sees that his people are no longer selfish no longer self no water critical no longer angry but have the Spirit of Jesus Christ then he can entrust them with latter rain power and yes there will be some growing during latter rain Ellen Michaels at the ripening of the harvest we will do some confessing to one another we will do some agonizing with the Lord we will do some praying that we never prayed before but our sins will already have been given into the hands of Jesus Christ and the latter rain will fall only upon those who abandon sin as a way of life so the conversion process has to happen before the latter rain that will not convert us that will only ripen us there's a difference ripening will occur after the latter rain it will occur during the time of the seven trouble the seventh way it will occur during the time of Jacob 's trouble more ripening will take place after the conversion has been fully settled in soil and white since settled in intellectually and experientially so we cannot be moved that's formerly so I'm suggesting that of the event yes God gives us growing time but let's not wait until latter rain to grow some have suggested this be the the Israelites when they came when they were in the wilderness on a daily basis they came bringing their sacrifices to the altar which is a symbol of the cross and of Calvary and they were legally justified every time they did that right however they are those that were not Levites could not daily inter into that crease the relationship of putting on the bill priestly robes which are simple of Christ's righteousness now post- Calvary I think we are able to do that so that that legal and being how great is the car that goes to the tree of our life that allows us to bear fruit I like that that's good that it would there is a power there that will transform us and we are all priests now that's the difference thank you right this is some say that during the time of Jacob 's trouble the government deserters and on their own and the right to select if that happens in the road on her own dog and efficient Parkinson's gun we are told that we will live in the side of a holy God without an intercessor and I've seen some interesting books and titles never without an intercessor that we will be without an intercessor the Bible says that if we believe in the closing probation he will ceases intercessory work which is his work of interceding for our sands and pleading his blood to cover our sins because we are once again maligned the character of God invests our lives up that will cease but one thing can never see here's the way I phrased it sometimes we had to hand and God says I've to gifts for you I will forgive all your sins of those illegal open up your butt your hand your fifth and I will pour in my forgiving grace now you have another hand when you open it up and let me for in my overcoming grace to gifts of God 's grace forgiveness overcoming and we look at the two and we tend to think sometimes that forgiveness is an easier way than overcoming because overcoming requires some lifestyle changes but you know what of the two gifts which is the better gift forgiveness or overcoming I think we all know don't worry you know how much better it is the time of the end of a close probation God will take away this beautiful gift of forgiving grace for all eternity it'll never be seen again if the on the recipe this was a temporary measure and for the rest of eternity there will be no forgiving grace but what will there be the reason God takes away forgiving grace is not to make it hard for us to go through but because and not always does this he takes away what is unnecessary he doesn't take away what is necessary he takes away what is no longer needed and when forgiving grace is no longer needed in our lives because we had been so filled with overcoming grace you will say there's no point to carry this on anymore there's no business for me up in heaven was shut the doors were off bigger business and overcoming graces by the board on an double and triple and quadruple measure and that's the way we survive the time of Jacob 's trouble in the closing probation and is the only way we can stand will need more angelic help more Holy Spirit helped more presence of Christ than we've ever needed in our lives we just won't be forgiven that's what's missing after the close of probation but we want everything else in full measure and then we survived even when were struggling in the middle of some jail cell or some whatever situation it is and we are aware despairing it's not it's not been a worker is on this hopeless but then we say but Jesus Christ led me up to this point here's his grace I will not let them down now and then overcoming grace will just overflow in our lives personally would say okay I'm just not in the USA is engaged and caused starvation this can be the cause and sort of celebrations cause at all not all and of course loudly I don't think so are honestly John and Senators just because photo edition five twenty two and twenty three which is in fluid of disparate which is Bejarano terms justification and sanctification do not refer to obedience they do not refer to fruits of the spirit they do not refer to all the things they refer to God 's ways of saving they refer to forgiving grace they refer to overcoming grace both gifts of God one justification is forgiving grace sanctification is overcoming grace is one hundred percent God 's gift that's why I say that and that nothing that God does can be a fruit he will produce fruit in me and there are fruits that he will produce we can call obedience one of those fruits of obedience can be both a condition and a fruit yes obedience can be that of living upright life can be a obedience out of fruit can be a condition under fruit the fruits of the spirit that are described in the in the Bible can be both conditions and fruits yes all of those can be both that but justification and sanctification are not fruits of anything justification and sanctification are two words used to describe one thing what God does for a helpful center in the comfort of anything God does something for centers that is his merit his business his power and nothing that I can contribute makes any difference at all and nothing will happen not nothing music is the fruit of that God 's doings are never fruits that's why I exclude sanctification from fruit while I will allow obedience to be both a condition and a fruit of that health person or confuse you more okay there's a hand again all okay yes is given him in Telluride is there another important point here you're right right all the question why does you said that while faith is a gift of God is not found in Scripture that obedience is a gift of God he doesn't has found that I think you're right obedience is a decision of our minds I will obey you as Moses said as I read in the sermon this morning if you obey this if you disobeyed this obedience is the decision of the human being I will choose to obey God in his seventh come in his fourth commandment to obey the Sabbath day what I am saying is the ability to carry out an obedient desire is totally a gift of God that's what I find in Scripture I will and do my good pleasure right so obedient is a decision that I will obey and only on I can make that decision but I have no power to carry out any Sabbath keeping or type paying or anything else I might get ten percent of my money but that is not stewardship that is simply fulfilling a requirement stewardship is when all my money belongs to the Lord and I give it to him and I asked him how would you like me to handle a ninety percent as well as the ten percent then we come into a God providing willing and doing experience of his good pleasure doing in me what I don't have the power Romans seven is still Romans seven the good that I would I do not and so the reality is that our obedient spirit remains helpless because of a fallen nature until God empowers it with his Holy Spirit to provide the actual change that must take place that's what I'm saying obedience yes it is a human decision carrying out obedience is a divine gift that I see in Scripture I think I just have a question on question is easily understand send that he only backing works for you and he can he can save you that you can obey God in the same way they did people outside the known tonight about that Newsom and the act of obedience they behave like good people and have good standards and ethical right then that you also have a short the matter how the features that would easily so that only looking to Jesus goes he's the one that can well is false short sleeves the one that grants us salvation is one that works in us to work out whether what I hear you saying is that you could have good obedient careful people who don't accept Jesus Christ at all what is the difference between good old beauty and careful people when they accept Jesus Christ and there is there a difference between that are you asking that because I know that Christ will put crisis Clement said that awaited them Plymouth men because even though he has his own say naturist us how he wasn't a bit different so I came from heaven I don't what I'm saying is simply this all of the good things that a human being can do come from God working on the conscience would all have consciences and saying it's wrong to cheat is wrong to steal it's wrong to kill I'm going to live a good life I'm going to give to help people I meant to go out there and spend my free time to feed the hungry I met regardless of your child to put things and many people can do good things without any health quote unquote from the Holy Spirit without a conversion experience and without anything else so what in the world is the difference between that that kind of experience and what it means to live those think things in Christianity I'll simply say this first yes I can probably I can probably do a lot of good things by just deciding to do maybe I can quit smoking bank just like that maybe I can quit drinking nine maybe I can go out in the end give free time to people in the just do all those things I'll do it because it's right to do it and that's the way it is I challenge anyone who is living in that kind of experience all do it because it's right it's ethical it is proper all challenge anyone to deal with impatience in the hearts to deal with jealousy the deal with pride and ego by those same methods all do it because it's right it's the right thing to do I'll never be impatient again I will never be jealous of anyone else I will never envy anyone to see it's very easy to live outwardly righteous lives looking righteous carrying out righteous activities but that's not really what righteousness is all about righteousness is the heart and a Christlike heart living under the control of the spirit of Jesus Christ means that he controls my impatience first and then I can go out and do some works for because if I go out and do works without his indwelling presence the Bible says that's filthy rags and I never knew you but if I allow him to come into my life and correctly in the side verse and the heart first and the attitudes first in the values first then my outward acts will be fruits of an inward righteousness and they are worth everything in God 's sight so what I'm suggesting here is that yes people can live morally upright lives but that's not what the gospel and that's not what salvation is all about at all no of the I like walks in heaven because the heart of Janesville and we've got to realize the evil and the property and the ugliness of our heart and admitted all I am helpless as a D Jones would say are you feeling cut of like you're dying will they just go ahead and die good time to die and then we'll get started this is no one likes to die and you're feeling like you don't want to go down that road but he says that's the only walk it will be the salvation dying to self is the difference between a good upright life and a Christian life a surrendered life to save life and that's what Jesus had to do in his own life Jesus had to die to his selfish nature I know that's a tough word a lot of people will fault me for saying that he was not selfish but he had a nature which had been conditioned the selfishness by four thousand years of heredity and that nature pulled at him to be selfish just as much as it pulls that off to be selfish and that's why Jesus had to look at nature into his hands of the heavenly father he couldn't control it by himself any more than you can control it that's why he said on many occasions not my will but thine be done so it is not a good piece it is the heart that produces the good deeds that matter for salvation can you comments a bit on glorification s easy what all this is that what that these are copies that's easy what God does and glorification if he recognizes that this is all the hard part this is the top this is the miracle of God above all other miracles that can ever be done to take a human being entrenched in selfishness and then change the neural pathways about my so it loves what is needed and hated what it loves and all the other human being is walking around in the sun for fighting with a fallen nature struggling with all the pressures of life and God doing this miraculous work of justification and sanctification the greatest miracle that has ever been performed in Saint denies that he can be done so when it's all done he says wow there's nothing left to be done if the pics of their bodies a little bit will get will just kind of the brain little tweak here and will give the body a better bodily event and no fallen nature all over data and we would have to live with it anymore so God can do his work of creating in the same way he created on the first day in the second and third they let their vision there was let there be a new body and there is a new body by the snap of his fingers God can create matter and change matter and change a thing the hard thing is changing the mind and so glorification is simply putting a seal of approval on the miracle of sanctification justification and he simply says now will get all the rough edges back into shape so that the rest of life would have to be play all eternity would have to be plagued by imperfect bodies minds and heredity that's glorification as best I can see that God doesn't in his own way I already say about that once got a lot to say about this I don't have one one sentence to say about the fact the glorification I don't know what kind of body all have I look at myself have you had it all done the fund think what will heaven be like will we have the think I'd advise it will be a telescopic eyes and microscopic guys like to see all away down that table will we have what about the flowers that we pick and deliver dye will happen to our houses when we get all the flowers picked in the filler houses may never die and the annual kinds of questions in the end most interesting question of all I have no answer for is what happens to the digestive process is in heaven him saying wow God got a lot of planning and changing to do in our bodies before heaven is going to be heaven and eternal life are you armed way we live so I'm waiting to see what glorification is going to be like I got no answers for you to access God 's job not mine it all gets back to you through a microphone can we safely use the word classification are I to have a better understanding of the word justification yes you can because the word righteous and just justify are exactly the same words in the New Testament in the original language and has confused us to have two different translations of that one word justification just like believe means more than just the metal except that has the faith surrender aspect to it so here we have two words that really mean the same way same thing and when we are made right we are justified which is what you're saying right defined right by answer yet it is just a word that nobody understands very well but it is a good word and it says everything that needs to be set made right is justified is made righteous but we thank regarding the legal justification and sanctification I'm picturing it as the seed as legal justification at the cross and the acorn tree in the seed all at the same time so God can work his holes for an armed sanctification through just seeing the seed because they knows what that will become for even if there is some of my fallen into that and in the process unless growing up into that full tree of what he wants us to be on and producing some of the fruit that might be rotten art no of the fallen nature may be seen does the tuning of that that to help us at the all and it will shrivel up and die even because it's actually rotten Oregon praise God that he can foresee what is in the seed and foresee it as the actual harvest praise God he can see that because I got only a seed growing in me and is halfway there and sometimes a third of the way I slip back and I move ahead and God sees the harvest that he treats me like the harvest estimate so it's like it's like perfection therefore it are like think the occasion is at first the blade then the ear then the full corn in the ear and and really sometimes on on a a a shoot of of me there are maybe lots of different corns on that we like maybe thirty and thirty so you have a hundred yet so there is a lot of knowledge to grow into this affect you as you're growing up in Jakarta the whole thing is simply growing day by day surrendering day by day and letting God do what you cannot do allowing that to happen to be somebody's turn on the air conditioner to affect our boys are all the microphones out if there are right anyone else clinically before we continue with questions like this is make sure that there phrases a question so I have to be the only question now on we had ten more minutes of normal clothes and anybody wants to get a question do it now or forever hold your peace one over I doesn't matter on you this is very positively about those whiny marinades and eighty eight in an what we need to learn from that can you comment on a Canadian study committee and direction of their dying in the work that they're doing coming out of them right the eighteen eighty eight message study committee is a group in Berrien Springs Michigan it is a self-supporting ministry it is not connected officially with the church as a as a direct group just as amazing facts is a self-supporting ministry etc. so there are similarities there the eighteen eighty eight message study committee was founded because of one desire it was founded to bring back the messages of Jones and Waggoner into the consciousness of Seventh-day Adventists that's the purpose of that's why it was found that it is a lady organizes group with two leading ministers at the beginning elders Welland and short and otherwise all lay organized and and so it was brought into per into into existence to get back because here's the reason because when we lived in short first presented these concepts of a rejection of God in eighteen eighty eight it was rejected by the General conference leadership in the nineteen fifties and so they had nowhere else to go but to bring it to the laypeople to bring to the side of these books should be president of the message to go forward so they did it not in defiance but they did it as the only way possible to get the message back and that it is consciousness and I praise God that they did it Welland in short had not brought back these books I don't know why would today have any kind of understanding that I have today and sharing with you these books have been like bringing life back from the dead bringing dry bones back to life in the book of Ezekiel and all of a sudden were beginning to see that there was something profound there I believe that there has been no clear message of righteousness by faith ever come to the Seventh-day Adventist church and maybe never in the history of the world then came through those two gentlemen and LMI testified that over and over so now since they began that movements and it began to reprint the books and get books out into the hands as with every movement that is trying to do God 's will you know what the segment Satan is trying to do it in their disrupts change and alter and the disruption that I have seen and you'll have to examine this for yourself the disruption that I have seen in that movement and when I spoke in their meetings I spoke at a number of their conventions I found people that had come to those meetings that were like no other camp meetings that I went to and I went to a fair number of lay organized camp meetings and the ones you came to the eighteen eighty eight meetings really were the salt of the earth as I could judge they really wanted to know God 's will they were on fire for the Lord but what I saw happened was an individual and all it takes is one individual an individual tech became very prominent in that group speaking and writing for them I quoted from them several times a day does anybody know that is Jackson Square and if Jackson wears message began to be more prominent in there in their productions and in their presentations all of a sudden we were hearing things with Jones and Wagner never said and what Jones and Wagoner said about justification and sanctification is not what Jax requires teaching so that has become a problem and I can no longer fully endorsed gold to the message eighteen eighty eight message and learn everything you can from them this the way I speak now the eighteen eighty eight message continues to produce the books on Jones and Waggoner the ones you can't find anywhere else the nineteen oh one the via eighteen ninety three and eighteen ninety five General conference bulletins for instance that contain from this messages on righteousness by faith and various other hard to get sources go there for those sources get it from the horses mouth get it from Jones Jones and Waggoner don't filter it through someone else's interpretation of Jones and Waggoner and that's my recommendation beast days so what is a qualified recommendation that I can make and I wish I could be more enthusiastic but there is all as I pointed out the elder wheel of the short on some were several occasions when there is a beautiful plate of apples and only one Apple is spoiling what is that one Apple due to the others around it causes the spoilage to spread not concerned about that maybe someone wrote a question from the ceiling the question is how does unpardonable sin into the misunderstanding of salvation such as justification sanctification unpardonable sin and there are a couple of texts in the Bible that say that there is a stand that is that you should not pray for that when the person commits this end it is beyond the possibility of salvation so unpardonable sin how does it relate to justification Judas could not be part he could not receive justification or sanctification if it had been working in his life and I presume it had because he was sent out with the others he was ordained if justification and sanctification were alive in his life he had negated it by dwelling on selfish traits of his character and therefore this became the all-consuming part of why have you hardly will send became so dominating in his life pride and selfishness that it led him to betray the son of God that serious the another person that I don't know too many primitive particles and by the way another person that apparently committed the unpardonable sin was the second person to whom God sent visions merely administer each and he was given the command television it's no a fascinating here we are in two thousand eight the reason that this gentlemen hazel boss felt that he could not give the message that God had given to him to give because he would be laughed at scorned and ridiculed and vilified was because he was half black and half white now we have one running for the president of the United States while at times James even in the United States of America but that was his concern because he was a mulatto and he felt that he absolutely had no credible standing to go out and say one word in all of his fears overwhelm them and the Lord said I'll go with you and give you courage and he said I can I just can't do it and I don't know all of his motivations but that certainly played a part and when he said no later Ellen White found this out he said all desire for holiness and righteousness left me and I felt totally empty and to this day I have no feeling that I want to come back to Jesus Christ and he heard the vision of Ellen White said that's what was given to me go give it or you'll end up like me so there's another example of a person committing the unpardonable sin and and all of these things that happened happened and is locked in their lives committing to a pardonable sin simply means going so far that you actually push the Holy Spirit out of your life never to return you get them back there very few people who do that I would hazard a guess I can hazard a guess that no one in this room has committed the unpardonable sin I don't know but I would hazard a guess that in a group like this that's pretty well not a realistic possibility of that limit God in what way all okay all right no God never says that said we say that's it there's a few things that limit God our God never says that he never walks away until we are so far away from him but he can't penetrate anymore Michelle is so strong the pride and selfishness are so great it's gone we don't have any desire there is nothing left in our hearts of even pulling us toward him and God simply says I love you still with all my heart and my grace is right there for you it's sitting there but you can't take it because you have a lot so far away that you can either there is nothing in you that draws you to me anymore and so yes God is limited by our decisions this is when we say no to God he can't do what he would like to do in our lives you can say God that limits God no it'll does it simply allows God to exercise due to continue free will otherwise there would be no free will yes there's a phrase that comes up in these types of discussions is called a try so make up the difference when the phrase yes Christ will make up the difference we are told that the that if we are exercising our best efforts to obey and serve God that Christ will make up what we are unable to produce absolutely Christ does make up the difference for human weakness human ignorance in capability but never human rebellion got never makes up the difference in rebellion in choosing to disobey him he can't make up the difference because then he would be sanctioning Sam and he would be saying it's okay now I will encourage you to do this and hope you quit doing it sometime down the line so what he makes up is the differences in human abilities whatever we are lacking we don't have the mind to think clearly we don't have the ability to carry out what we would like to do yet he will make up those differences and he will work Ellen White says on the plan of multiplication while we work on the plan of addition that's what God makes up the difference in human inability not human commitment to never to make up that difference speaking about the rooms of the Northern California we rather early yesterday towels cleaning to his dreams far I know I've heard I've got back follow up to a couple of times already here there's a gentleman living in California and Sacramento California not far from where we live I met him once his name is Ernie Knowles in the last couple of years he was healed of a very serious illness he was dying and the Lord healed and brought them back to health again he is appears to be in robust health permit the best I can tell his wife testifies to the fact that none of these dreams were engendered in a psychological way by him wanting your kind of manipulating or doing anything that all of a sudden he began receiving these dreams and was told to tell the dreams very similar ways of Ellen White was and that's what he did began doing is eating he didn't ask for invitations but as an invitation came from a church he would tell his dreams that is resulted in a website that he now has put his dreams on for people to to read for themselves so that's the facts of the situation gentlemen who has not initiated I can testify fairly well that and is not one that I can judge to be one who is in come in and that unbalanced in some way and kind of psychologically needs to have approval in this way that is not all I would evaluate this man I see them as genuine I see them as honestly see in a sincere that doesn't mean that his visions are prophetic dreams that does not mean that it means it could be that because back in Allen Weinstein there was a woman named Anna Rice Phillips who also believed with all her heart that she was receiving dreams and visions from the Lord and Ellen Whitehead the teller these dreams did not come from the Lord you are sincere but they came out of your own mind that was hard for her to access but she did accept it and she lived a very profitable Christian life after that in the administer so eating sincere is not a proof that the dreams are from God so here we are with another one and we had a few heavenly Aji Issac Tron in France the one in Thailand or wherever it was wasn't it somewhere over there and then now this one in Sacramento California as being fairly prominent the other two clearly didn't pan out like it we had hoped they would will this one I don't know as I you you can look you can look at the at the dreams you can evaluate what you have to ask as you read through the dreams use this in contradiction to clear inspiration that has preceded it or is it in harmony does it lead to a growing experience in Christ to prepare for God 's final work in the final generation is it something that God would tend to use if God were to bring and remember there will be dreams and visions in the last day we cannot discount the God will work and we have to be open to this so now it is our business to examine not just these persons sincerity but two things the visions bring themselves and the effect on those visions and dreams upon those that are hearing them and living according to them and that takes time so there's no way that a judgment can be made hastily and so I have no authority to decide on anything like that to you and the Holy Spirit can make that judgment for yourself if you are inclined to read those visions and dreams for yourself make your own evaluation clearly not because of prejudice or bias or sympathy or what ever but simply because of objective in comparison with what God says so that is an issue that we will have to treat just like all the ones before and asked the question is this one of God 's genuine gifts or is it a gift which is maybe not false but simply psychological that is a possibility and we have to make a decision I talked to him and I said to him I can't endorse you I don't know enough about you and what you're doing the Holy Spirit will make it plain in due time from him or not the male eels advice is still good advice for us today is if this is from the Lord it will succeed if not it will do it will diminish and disappear other previously marginalized last night there was a presentation of a loophole for either about to read books in the Redbook sister like a drama and the historian was during the presentation from TOC I was wondering what you thought of the Redbook so I'm sure had made their tour down here and have the patent tickets available and some of you actually seen it and so I have not seen it I have not only heard the report of one person who has seen it I trust that person 's evaluation at this point I have not made my own personal investor you know so I am less than qualified to give you a final answer and so I'm only going to tell you what I think at this point the best I can judge is that the intent and him only judging intent here the intent of that presentation was to show how human that Helen White really was she made mistakes I see there were some things that could've been done better there were positive things and there were negative things some evaluated the positive as such then saw the negative of such a percent but the thing which struck me having not seen it but only heard about it was something that happened and I guess it helped me out I think was near the end of the play where a number of scholars sitting at a table where investigating Ellen White's writings and one would stand up and say I can't square this again if I'm wrong help me out I can't square this with what the Bible says or truth this doesn't seem to match the gunshot would bring out and he would fall the ground is that correct nobody that's what I heard and it happened nine times or so each one would stand up yes all okay with a scholar of some dry rot right this does not does not agree with historical evidence and so while one by one the gunshots would ring out in these colors would fall down in my humble evaluation that was an attempt to justify the ones who were set apart or disqualified from teaching and leading in the Adventist church during the late seventies and early eighties as a result of the bids for controversies that rocked our church and was an attempt to say these persons were martyred for the cause of and have all of the historical integrity that this was the martyrdom of the honest in heart knife I'm wrong please understand I'm not seem to be bedridden Goodrum the drama itself so I can evaluated first then is that what is exactly what happened than this is an attempt to justify and defend the ones who were leading us into the evangelical gospel during the late seventies and early eighties help me out if I miss stating drag so I've not seen it I can't be your best evidence but in my judgment when I first brought up I'm not happy about I don't think it will help us to understand online I think is one more of those things which will bring us to a questioning of whether or not all she did was truly inspired by God okay once again it has been a highlight of our trip to come here we will treasure the memory as we go around the United States and that we are praying for you folks I consider and I said it before and I'll say it again I consider this movement that you are a part of to be the best and most urgent hope of the Seventh-day Adventist church to get it done in this generation some of us older folks are not going to be here too much longer and we'd like to get it done with you folks not after you folks and so Juergen have to help us out to us older ones we want to go home this generation to and it will take the young and the old working together and this is where I see it happening that's right here praise God and goal M.D. with him all this next year don't let anything separate you from him thank you for your invitation


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