Michigan Camp Meeting 2016: The Harvest is Great

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Michigan Conference of Seventh-day Adventists

Godhead Questions and Answers

Daniel Scarone

Godhead Questions and Answers- Part 1

What we were doing in the afternoon is do a kind of Q&A regarding the topic of the Godhead in the Bible.

So today in the morning I received 1 question, but if you have any other for tomorrow, it's going to help me to build up the topics.

Anyhow, I'm going to share some of the questions I already received from several other places in which we were visiting regarding the topic of the Trinity.

There is in this moment 1 critical issue that is affecting the Church.

In the morning we are talking about the pioneers of the Seventh-day Adventist Church and their position regarding the evolving, I will say, criteria regarding the Trinity or the Godhead.

And in the afternoon, we are going to be working a little bit about question and answers.

And we'll have a couple of pastors today, and I will request Pastor Richardson to do the prayer for us.

We pray in the name of the Father, Father in heaven, We thank You so much for letting us come together today to say Your Word and get questions and answers answered.

And I thank You for each 1 of us that are here today.

So bless us, draw us close to you and each other, and give us the understanding of your Word.

Okay, 1 of the questions that normally comes is regarding the word Trinity.

And today I receive 1 of these questions and the word Trinity was also says used by pagans in the Trinity of Isis, Horace, and Seth.

And what is here is this monogram, the IHS, and in a circle.

By the way, This is not regarding the Trinity.

Normally, this is a supply of the X of Jesus.

And by the way, in the time in which I used to be altar boy, when I was a kid, it was printed by seal in the wafer in the Catholic Mass in those days, you know.

So the meaning was that in the moment that the person is receiving the communion, is receiving the body and the blood of the Lord Jesus in that instant moment of taking it.

So I do have a very serious observation regarding the topic because the Catholicism in general sustains that in the moment in which the priest finish the prayer of the consecration of the warfare, at that moment, that piece, a small piece of bread, stopped being that to begin to be the body and the blood of the Lord Jesus.

That is a transformation in the nature of the wafer.

So we don't believe that, and that is not a normal practice or understanding inside our child.

But all the wafers, they do have this, in seal, you know, it is imprinted very clearly.

So let me explore, and I guess that with 1 of you today, I share 1 view regarding the Trinity.

Somebody made a comment regarding my book and this is in this magazine coming from general conference.

By the way, let me stop here for a moment.

I'm not used to do that, but it's good to do it from time to time.

This magazine, if you are a student, university or so, you might be able to receive it.

And everybody sometimes is interested in receiving something for free, you know?

And He was doing some kind of critique of the book, and he says, this is a book, this is about this book, This is a book about the Trinity, though it is not obvious in the title.

And by the way, it's true, when you go inside the book, you are going to see that we were discussing with Pacific Press about how we are going to call, because my personal preference at the beginning was to use Godhead regarding the topic.

Because it is very clear and neat in the New Testament.

The Apostle Paul is referring to give a name of the entire divinity.

And it's involving all the persons in the divinity, so I've been inclined to.

But when you are writing a book and you are using sometimes the term several times, you need to look for an alternative.

So he says, 2 chapters use the term triunity, common among, and he's bilingual, so he says, English language others.

And like to say, it doesn't refer to us guys who are in the other part of the world.

Such avoidance of the term Trinity owes much to the fact that the oneness of God is so clear in the Bible that some people cringe at the sight of the term that suggests trinits, trinitas in the Latin, they do not need to be worried.

It means that there is something three-like about God, not that God is 3.

By the way, when we use the concept idea of the Trinity we are not believing that in 3 gods we are believing in 1 God.

And I'm going to, if you need, I'm going to give some examples about that.

Can I ask questions thereafter, or can I ask questions during?

If, let me, Lina, could you share this with everybody?

If you have any questions, tomorrow I'm going to take some time also for doing some.

Yes, I am answering this question that I received today in the morning.

No, tomorrow I'm going to answer your question.

I know you understand, but if you don't mind, I'm going to explain anyhow.

I do prefer to get the question in written because I do have a proof of the question.

And having the text as a proof, I'm going to deal with the question in your text.

And I'm working with a program regarding question and answers and sometimes I use it in in that context and so I suppose that you have good question like everybody.

It means that there is something three-like about God.

And in the Bible, you are going to find out that when the Apostle Paul is finishing, for example, the Epistle to the Corinthians, he's talking about 1 God.

And at the end, he says, and mention the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

But when you go to verse 11, and finish in verse 13, you are going to see that he is referring to the same topic.

When we speak about the unity of something, that thing is usually not really 1, the unity of the nation, for example.

The unity of the Church or anything else composed of more than 1 subject, but that in some respects is or should be like 1.

That is part of the problem that I discuss in 1 of the topics that I present in the book.

Godhead Questions and Answers- Part 2

Well, normally this presentation has to do with questions and answers that were made in the morning regarding the topic of the Trinity.

And I'm going to mention today in the morning I made a presentation regarding certain topics And there was a quotation of Ellen G.

White that I use in the morning that is, deity did not die, humanity did.

And the gentleman that left a few moments ago asked me where it was.

And I didn't put that in the notes today.

And normally I am dealing, and please I'm going to say something because I don't want to permit, I cannot permit today what happened yesterday.

And that is, this is a seminar oriented or given for Seventh-day Adventist members that believe in the 28 fundamental beliefs.

So if you don't, please, I don't know if I'm going to enter into a dispute or into a war regarding this, but I do believe in the 28 fundamental beliefs.

And besides that fact, this is oriented to give instrument to those who are bringing some troubles into the church, denying doctrines or fundamental doctrines in the church and we are under attack in this moment.

Let me share with you that we are under attack regarding the creation doctrine, we are under attack regarding the sanctuary doctrine, We are under attack regarding the Sabbath.

That is not, nothing new regarding that, but it is, and we are under attack regarding the divinity of the Lord Jesus, the divinity of the Holy Spirit, and also regarding the topic of the Trinity.

So what I'm going to share with you is my point of view based upon the Bible and the views of the Seventh-day Adventist Church regarding these topics.

So please, if you have any questions, let me share with you that the only moment in which I'm going to have a moment for doing some question and answer is tomorrow in late in the morning in the presentation because this is the only presentation I'm going to make today.

And tomorrow I am going to be flying away to do or start another thing on Friday in another country.

So that is a special moment in these things.

But I'm going to try to deal with some questions that probably are against our view as a church.

And I'm going to do it in a in the best of my respect with differences and so on and with a Christian spirit but I'm going to share with you my view based upon the Bible.

Today in the morning I received a very good and interesting question.

It is based upon the general conference website in which they put a video by, I don't remember the name of the guy, regarding the examples of the Trinity.

And use an egg and base the unity in the idea of the shell, the egg yolk and the egg white and to reflect the unity of that.

I am going to say that when you read the book, and this is not a perfect book, but it's the best that I can share thinking in lay people.

I avoided, if you read the book, some kind of images or comparisons for God or the Trinity.

You know, we cannot compare God with anything.

So I have to confess that I am not feeling good when I saw that film by the general conference.

I didn't say, look, I don't see light in doing this, but I am not sharing in favor of that.

I heard a pastor that used to have credentials with a seven-day Adventist chart comparing the Trinity with humans' functions, like a firm of lawyers, he says in a moment.

I am not going to invite anyone to go into that direction.

We might have differences in the reading, in the understanding, but my advice, my pastoral advice is let's go to the Bible and read the Bible as it is and compare text with text.

There are moments in which the Bible is figurative, symbolic sometimes and we are going to find out in the Bible some reference that are going to enlighten our vision and the Holy Spirit is going to help us in the understanding of that.

Today in the afternoon probably what we are going to do is to share with you some things regarding some points of view.

Yesterday, I received a very, very long question.

And the reference is, I put it here, all of them.

I didn't jump over anything, because I have respect for every person that is making questions here.

And I'm going to refer in general, because I'm going to share with you some of these things.

1 of the questions that I received today in the morning is, how many times the Holy Spirit appears in the Bible in bodily form.

I invite you to open your Bible, and we are going to do probably A lot of exercise, biblical exercise today in doing that.

In Matthew 3.16 and 17, I don't know, Pastor Richardson, could you read that?

And Mark chapter 1, verse 10 and 11, could you read that?

And Luke 3.21 and 22, and Ingo, could you help us?

Acts chapter 2 verses 1 and 2, 3 and 4 and I reserve a comment at the end of that that is regarding Revelation 1 4 yes well simple when you read could you mention the verses again?

And Jesus, when he was baptized, came straight out of the water.

And lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting upon him.

And lo, a voice from heaven sang, this is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased.

Well I find that responding to the answer, this is my first perception that is in the in the Bible regarding a kind of bodily comparison of the spirit here.

Because it says, like a dove in verse 16.

Could you, it's the same but under the mark glasses.

And straightway coming out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him.

And there came a voice from heaven saying, thou art my beloved son in whom I am well pleased.

Now when all the people were baptized and when Jesus also had been baptized and was praying, the heavens were opened and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form like a dove and a voice came from heaven, you are my beloved son, with you I am well pleased.

I totally failed and I'm the 1 that asked for it.

When the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all in 1 accord in 1 place.

And suddenly There came a sound from heaven as of a rushing, mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost and began to speak with other tongues as the Spirit gave them to you." Thank you.

The first 3 mentions, that is the synoptics they call.

That is the book of Mark and Luke, use bodily comparison.

The word appearing in the book of Luke, it doesn't appear in the Book of Mark, but says in the Book of Mark like a dove, like a dove is expression.

And the difference in between is that in the case of the Book of Acts, appears like in a form, but it's not a body.

You know, it's the kind of flames that appear.

So of course, The other that I do have is questionable, and I don't know if I am going to share, but I put it in my notes, and I'm going to share with you Because it is clearly perceivable by the author, that is, John, the book of Revelation chapter 1 and verse 4.

And I put in with a note here, and John says, John to the 7 churches which are in Asia, grace be unto you and peace from him which is, and which was, and which is to come, and from the 7 spirits which are before his throne.

In the book of Revelation, the spirit appears in front of the throne.

And that is a kind of description that you are going to find out.

But I will say that the answer to the question, I will say, is based upon Matthew, Mark, Luke, and the book of Acts, certainly.

Opinionated or open to difference of understanding is Revelation 1, 4.

The other question I do have here says, how does the Holy Spirit fits a definition of person, a being with personality, intellect, and will.

Okay, here I, there is a lot, a lot of, of, of verses that I would like to share with you regarding this.

And I guess I touch base this in the book, but my, the book is short in certain sense, but here is a little bit longer.

You know, sometimes editors recommend not to overpass certain amount of pages, and I've been respected about that, but you pay the price that not having certain amount I will say of information once you took that route on.

And let me share with you some things that are for me quite interesting.

For example, the Bible defines or says that the Holy Spirit grieves and is clear in the Bible.

Let me share with you, And do you mind if I ask to you, to the rest of you, the reading, is there any problem?

Pioneers and the Trinity- Part 2

Father in heaven, thank you for this day, the blessing of the rain, and help those with difficulties for the rain too.

And bless us today in this moment in which we are going to talk about pioneers of our church, their beliefs, and their transition in history.

Let me share with you that I'm a little bit concerned for the yesterday situation, and I have to excuse or apologize for that.

Let's put our phones on mute, at least for the presentation, if it's possible.

Because I am a little bit concerned about certain things that are happening.

However, I'm going to continue with the presentation of the topic today, with good spirit, I will say.

Even with detecting that sometimes in our auditorium, there are some people with different views, you know.

And I am a little bit concerned for that and I am praying for that situation.

Because we need to have, I guess, compassion, loving kindness, and a good spirit in treating with the differences.

However, there are some details that are becoming a little bit of concern for me in the way in which some people are behaving in this kind of situation, because some are bringing the situation to a confrontation.

And even when you are trying to deal with the Bible on your hand, or showing the Bible and telling with the Bible, and even with that, there are no, you know, kind of understanding.

Yesterday, for example, I've been, and I am, by the way, a slow reaction person.

I am not reacting immediately, but after that, I began to think, how in the world can it be that way?

Yesterday in the afternoon, we were discussing about the, let's go to the Bible, Matthew 28 verses 18 and 19.

Or let me explain clearly this, or non-Trinitarian view or anti-Trinitarian view are attacking the Bible.

And Jesus came and said to them, all authority is theirs in heaven and on earth as it is in heaven.

Go therefore and make disciples of all nations.

That said, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.

Yes, and when you are over there, the text is with no question about in the name singular of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Yesterday I mentioned And I brought for that purpose 1 Novo Testament Greek and with what we call the critical apparatus.

And 1 of the persons here began to question about what kind of Greek was that.

And at the beginning, you know, I accept, I was confused yesterday for the question.

But when you go to the dynamic of the process, all the codexes, all the codex were numbered.

All the papyrus and manuscripts were numbered.

And When there is a variance or a change or in 1 version says a different thing, you are going to find out immediately that it is in the notes.

And in the notes says very clearly, there is in this version says, eternally, forever, or something with quote.

And they say, in this says this, in this other says this, in P43 says this way, in P19 says this way.

But when you go there, there is no differences.

So then the question is why you are going to attack the Bible to support your version?

So, that is something that for me I would say, hey, this is non-Christian.

Whatever it is, that is not a Christian attitude.

Because the evidence, I am bringing the evidence that I do have regarding that, and I am sharing the same, because we need to grow up.

So what we are doing in the morning, and if you have any questions regarding that, please do it.

And there is a paper, and in the afternoon we are dealing with questions, okay?

Yesterday in the morning we collected some questions, And we are going to be dealing with that in the afternoon.

Of course, in the morning, we are dealing with a history of the Seventh-day Adventist evolution of the doctrines.

In the 18s, especially between 1846 and 1888 or 1898, those range of times, the position of the charge in general was a kind of or non-Trinitarian or anti-Trinitarian.

Because Uriah Smith, for example, he moved from a former position.

And in 1981, Uriah Smith, that used to be an editor of our, in those days, official paper, he wrote and changed the position of Jesus as begotten and not created.

Somebody asked me about the question about begotten.

Begotten means that was made, that is the involvement.

And for example, 1 of the things that it is, and this is my observation regarding this, because in the Catholicism, in the Catechism, and this is a quotation of the Catechism, and here is the product coming from Libreria di Trici Vaticana that means the library or the bookstore of the Vatican and by the way this is a former pope that was working the catechism.

And this is the quotation of the catechism, page 65.

Since the Father has through generation given the only begotten Son everything that belongs to the Father except being the Father.

The Son has also eternally from the Father from whom he is eternally born that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Son.

So technically here, summary, the Catholic Church teaches that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Son, and the Son from the Father.

So, sometimes when somebody are attacking our church or telling what we believe based upon the name Trinity, and say, hey, look guys, you are in the same position like Catholicism.

I will say, No, this is the position of Catholicism.

I am not a prophet nor a son of a prophet, okay, but I am not going to say nothing similar to that because in the Bible you are not going to find out that thing and we need to be careful regarding that.

The evidences regarding the Godhead in the Old Testament and in the New Testament are very clear for me.

And 1 of them, for example, let me share with you, because some people say, And yesterday I've been sharing with you guys some things.

So, let me share with you something that is in the book of Isaiah.

In 48, Book of Isaiah, Chapter 48, verses 12 through 16.

I'm sorry for bringing my kind of electronic Bible, you know.

And Olga is right about that but she's kind also.

Well that's a problem sorry for that we were giving thanks for the rain and also praying for those who suffer it.

So let's go to the Bible and let's read this.

The Bible says here, Hearken unto me, O Jacob, and Israel, my colt.

Now the speaker began to identify himself.

So when the speaker is telling that it's the first or the last, your mind normally is going to other places in the Bible, searching, in several places.

And comes immediately the book of Revelation.

My hand also had laid the foundation of the earth.

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Godhead Questions and Answers

Godhead Questions and Answers- Part 2

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Godhead Questions and Answers- Part 1

57m

Godhead Questions and Answers- Part 2

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Pioneers and the Trinity- Part 2

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