Commemorating the Reformation after 500 Years: Just a Misunderstanding?

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Adventist Theological Society

Giselle Hasel

Michael Hasel

Dennis Pettibone

Daniel Reynaud

Panel Discussion

We are going to be happy to answer questions from the audience today, and so this is a time for you to express your questions.

LARSON Of course, we know we're being told that the protest is over and there can no longer be a Protestant church, but we believe that the Reformation not only has not ended, but it is now finally set to be complete.

The reforming of reshaping of God's character in His people.

In Daniel 8, it talks about to 2300 days, then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

So I was wanting to ask, how do you see this concept that the Reformation is finally to be complete as being seen in the cleansing of the sanctuary since Christ is there cleaning out the sins that his people continue to bring in.

Yeah, let me tackle that because I had this discussion this morning with Gerard Domsticht.

So we were talking about this very issue over breakfast.

So I'll just share with you kind of what we were talking about with that.

I think that it's clear from the spirit of prophecy and also from scripture that as there is a cleansing of the sanctuary that is taking place in heaven, there will be a transforming outpouring of the Holy Spirit on God's people here on earth, and that there will be a cleansing of God's people here.

We're living in the antitypical day of atonement.

It means that during that time in ancient history, you know, the type, in ancient history, that type was the time, it was 1 day, of course, but it was the time when people were extremely focused on their right setting before God.

Everything that was superfluous was removed and they lived their lives Humbly now as someone who has spent years and years living in Israel.

Let me share with you something about this, too Yom Kippur in Israel still today when Jews When Jews still celebrate Yom Kippur Yeah, it was yesterday or is it today?

Was yesterday was yesterday Okay Anyway, when when people are still going through Yom Kippur in Israel, it doesn't matter if they are religious, well it does, but those who have grown up in religious homes and may not even believe anymore, There's still a solemnity that goes about on that day that is very very serious.

I had a very close friend Giselle and I The dotons they were both professors at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem They both were very well-known archaeologists, and we were We were in their home often when we lived in Israel.

And Professor Dautan, Moshe Dautan, her husband, would become very, very agitated and very, very anxious during Yom Kippur because of his state before the Lord.

I think that there's something about the outpouring of the Holy Spirit, and I think there's also something about our sanctification process that needs to happen during these days that is very, very significant as we move forward to the time of the end and as we move through this time process.

And I think the Holy Spirit will pour out his ability through the merits of Christ to accomplish that during the same time.

And I really appreciate the lectures today.

I was unable to come last night because I thought it was at a different time.

And so 1 of the things that I really appreciated was the fact that religion or theology was combined with an element of art, which oftentimes the 2, I think, has more controversy and enmity than religion and science.

But anyways, so thinking about everything that I've heard and I kind of like received, I was thinking practically, how can I like allow this to impact my life and really affect everything, you know?

And so I came to the conclusion, and so the question is going to be, what do you think about my conclusion, Gerard?

The conclusion I came up with is that to really kind of embrace the art as a means to kind of share this message.

And the question is, what do you think about that?

A, and another question is, if the art was so pivotal, or so, not pivotal, but dang, if the usage of art, No, hold on.

If Martin Luther used art, right, if Martin Luther used art and the Reformation, right, should we, right, as Seventh-day Adventists, should we also use art?

And yeah, and so those are the questions.

The history of art in The Protestant Reformation has had a sad history, actually.

A lot of people blamed the Protestants because of the iconoclastic movement that came about right around that time by Zwilling and, what's his name?

They took everything that was in the church that had Mary to be a sinful representation of the old church, the old religion.

And so they went a little bit too far in destroying everything.

And believe it or not, as we've seen, and even some people have mentioned here, the Jewish position and how Luther didn't maybe take appropriate positions in that.

You have to remember these guys were making it on the go.

They had studied and things were happening.

So Luther at first with art wasn't sure what to do with it either.

He wasn't sure if he should go with his colleagues, but then later he realizes, no, that's fanatical.

And he kind of backs up and embraces art.

So you will always have, like the gentleman here next to me said, when there's a reform, some you, we, okay, to make this relevant, we've just seen statues being destroyed just recently.

Anytime there's a spirit of reform, art kind of gets either not, or financial trouble, art gets not supported or destroyed because it stands for something.

If you believe that art can stand for something, then Luther also got this position, became aware that it is necessary to use art because it's a form of communication that is immediately understood, it is powerful, and they knew that people looking at the booklet I gave you would immediately get it.

They would immediately get the Reformers' message, much more than studying all the theology.

Do you know, as Adventists, there's 1 aspect of the creation story I think that we have undervalued.

When God created man in Genesis 1, what was the statement he said?

Let us man in our own image and he says it twice.

Now I'm not a Hebrew scholar but I know this much about Hebrew.

It's small vocabulary meant it was hard to emphasize things So if you wanted to emphasize something, what did you do?

So when God says twice, 3 times actually, in the image of God, He created them, male and female, he created them.

What was God doing when he made that statement, I'm going to make people who are like me?

Wasn't he being the most creative that we have a record of?

And then he says, they're going to be like me.

And if we crimp or limit or attack creativity, we're actually attacking 1 of the prime characteristics of God that he placed in us.

And it's the image that he wants to reflect.

I read a wonderful book about Christian creativity and he said we most reflect God, not when we're preaching or praying or studying the Bible, but actually when we're being creative because we reflect the Creator's image in doing so.

Now, you might quibble with the waiting there, but I like the sense that he wants to restore to living faith creativity as an essential reflection of the character of God.

And this is something that has been written about many times before, but I just recently finished a commentary on the book of Exodus.

And what's very interesting, when you first deal with the sanctuary being built, which is an expression of great architect, architecture and art, The first time God ever pours out his Holy Spirit on anyone mentioned in the Bible specifically, It's on 2 artists that are responsible for creating the tabernacle sanctuary and its furnishings so God doesn't God values art very highly he used the image of the sanctuary an image of the sanctuary all through history to illustrate the plan of salvation.

And that is the complete plan of salvation that we have been given as a church to still proclaim today as Jesus is in the heavenly sanctuary.

So art is powerful, and you only have to look at what the last, what is it, 10 years now?

It's the 10th anniversary of the iPhone, right?

Often to our detriment because it can be used by both sides, right?

Yes, we need to use media for the church.

God created these ways, these art forms, we need to use them, but of course, it will be used by others as well, as we saw in the Reformation and Counter-Reformation.

Renaud, when you were telling us about the first book, the part about the recipe for chaos, where if we're all going to be able to interpret the Bible ourselves, we're liable to get a lot of different interpretations and it was supposed to be as the result of the Reformation that that would happen.

Hassell at the end, I understood you to say that it wasn't as a result of the Reformation, that it was, you know, the bankruptcy and stuff came from the result of historical critical scholarship.

So I'm just trying to kind of put those 2 together.

If a lot of people hadn't gone the way of historical critical scholarship, could the Reformation have not resulted in the chaos that was described in the book?

If they had followed, you know, certain principles of biblical interpretation, or do you think it's valid that that it just had to be that way because of the Protestant Reformation?

I'll have a stab at that first since I was mentioned first.

There's no doubt about the accuracy of the issues that historical criticism have brought to an understanding of the Bible.

I mean, they've undermined, they've dismantled, you know, it's seriously problematic.

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