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Advent HOPE Sabbath School

Dave Fiedler: Core of the Controversy

Dave Fiedler

Lucifer: Try Something New

Dear Father, I thank you for the privilege to be here.

I thank you for working out the details and covering all the loose ends that threatened to derail this occasion.

And just now I pray that you would give clarity of thought and that more than anything that might be accomplished in my mind that the inspired content would speak and be of value to those who listen.

Pray that you would bless to that end now, in Jesus' name, amen.

Now, 1 thing I should say, because you know, anytime you have a group like this, there's a chance, hopefully it's a good chance, that not everyone here is born in the fold and died in the wool Seventh-day Adventist.

Some of you may be kind of wondering what this operation is all about anyhow.

1 of the things that Adventism has to offer to the world is the the concept of what we refer to as the great controversy.

The understanding of the war between good and evil behind the scenes and in a greater level of detail than is common in other denominations.

Now, if you happen to not be a Seventh-day Adventist, I understand that.

I want you to understand that at this point, what I'm going to be presenting is a clarification, perhaps, if you wish, of an underlying concept that pervades Adventism.

We've grown up with it, some of us, and we don't even realize the degree that this great controversy concept is molding us.

But that's really what we're going to be looking at.

So whether you are prepared to agree or whether you are prepared to accept the authority of the sources I cite, that's okay.

At least you can say, oh, well that explains these guys.

Now I kind of understand why they think the way they do.

Now of course, I think that's the way we all could benefit by thinking, and I invite you to consider it.

So, we're going to begin with something less than your most common of sermon topics.

You don't often get a sermon on Lucifer, I don't suppose, but, you know, some general and I've forgotten who he was, and probably there's multitudes of them who claim the distinction, but someone once said that the first thing to do in a war is to know your enemy.

So we're going to be looking at some of that.

And yeah, I'm gonna bop back and forth so I can see what's happening here.

Now Lucifer is a great example of something that I find interesting.

In the business world, and I don't know, just every other world today, 1 of the more commonly repeated axioms is, you need to think outside the box.

Apparently, we're all living in a box, and very few of us can actually project our thought processes beyond the cardboard.

And so, the idea of thinking outside the box is, you know, boy, that's a valued thing, this innovative mindset.

That's a sales point if you're on your resume, right?

Well, you know, Lucifer was the first 1 to really do that.

And so now we have a little subtitle there.

Lucifer's just basically said, let's try something new.

And you'll see what I mean by that, what I think he meant by that as we go along.

Well, actually it's the middle of the beginnings because the Bible gives us 3 beginnings.

If I had just said, when is the beginning, biblically speaking, you would probably think of this 1.

Anybody else think of a different beginning?

It's not as clear cut perhaps and not as famous, but it's this verse.

Jesus speaking to the Jews, he said, You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do.

He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, for he is a liar and the father of it.

But what's interesting here is that Jesus says that the moment there was sin, there was murder.

Well, this second mystery is closely related with, or excuse me, the middle beginning is closely related with the second mystery.

Paul especially seemed to like that terminology, right?

The second mystery is the bad 1, the mystery of lawlessness.

1 of the interesting aspects of these 2 is that The first 1 was hidden from the beginning of the ages.

Now what makes that important is that the mystery of godliness preceded the mystery of iniquity or lawlessness in the New King James here.

But the mystery of godliness is the solution, the only effective response to the mystery of lawlessness.

In other words, God had the solution before the problem came up.

It's really hard to catch God very flat-footed.

You might as well give up on it pretty much.

Well, you're probably familiar with this mystery of lawlessness.

For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work.

The coming of the lawless 1 is according to the working of Satan with all power signs and lying wonders with all unrighteous deception among those who perish because they did not receive the love of the truth that they might be saved.

And for this reason God will send them strong delusion that they should believe the lie that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Now, there's an interesting little detail buried in that.

My Greek vocabulary is probably about 8 words.

But those who do tell us that there is a specific point that's mentioned here, a very specific point I should say.

You maybe are used to this verse in the King James.

It says that they did not receive the love of the Jews and that they all should believe a lie.

But the Greek authorities tell us that it's the definite article, right?

How many articles do you have these days?

Come on people, I taught English for 20 years, you gotta be better than that.

Well technically 3, but you were pretty close.

You can make it almost 2 because a and an are the same thing, it just depends on whether you start the next word with a vowel or not.

Now catch the difference here in case this is somehow a little vague in your thinking since seventh grade English class.

There is a difference between saying, there goes a car, and saying, there goes the car.

I don't know what the difference is, but in a normal conversation, you would know the difference, right?

If I'm talking about Fred's car, and I say, there goes the car, that's Fred's, right?

Remember, I wanted to find out where this thing began, right?

Well, the devil was a liar from the beginning as well as a murderer.

We often say that the first lie was you will not surely die.

Christ: Let Me Show You

Happy Sabbath, and a special greeting to the few of you who were not with us last night.

You missed a once in a lifetime opportunity, unless you know more about time travel than I do.

I do want to provide a little introduction because what we're covering is a continuous thread.

And so, if you miss the beginning, you're at something of a disadvantage.

Last night we had 1 of the less common sermon topics.

Because there is wisdom in knowing your enemy.

Some of the highlights, so that you just have the background.

Lucifer of course is the protagonist, or the antagonist I should say, in the great controversy.

The great controversy theme is, I would argue, 1 of the most profound and most far-reaching of contributions that the Adventist church has to make in the realm of theology.

You can't understand Adventists without understanding the Great Controversy.

And so if you happen to not be an Adventist, you're in the right place.

If you're trying to understand what these people are all about, this is really, I would argue, the most basic of fundamental propositions upon which Adventism is constructed.

Just unconsciously, consciously, Theoretically, philosophically, everything, it all stems from an understanding that we are involved in a great controversy between good and evil.

And this weekend, the purpose is to look at that just a little bit more.

And in 1 of the, if you're familiar with the letters and manuscripts releases from the writings of Ellen White, they were released about 2 years ago.

1 of the most fascinating statements that I've found in looking over that previously unavailable material.

Samuel White tells us that as the planning for earth was going forward, the covering cherub came and presented his request that he be the prince of this world, but that that was not accorded to him.

Jesus Christ would be the ruler of this world, and the law of heaven would be the standard law for this earth.

There are fascinating details which I can't take the time to go into any further because we did that last night.

And incidentally, for those who may be interested or perhaps are listening on AudioVerse, I will just mention that due to time constraints, this is not the full meal deal.

But there is a previous series of recordings, a five-part series that if you're fascinated, as I would like you to be, because I find it fascinating.

If you really want the whole thing, there is a series on AudioVerse already, from about 2 months back or something like that, down at Yeechee Pines.

I didn't know they were recording it for AudioVerse, but then all of a sudden, boom, there we are.

Today, however, we move on from beginning with Lucifer, and we look at Christ, which is more fitting for a Sabbath sermon, I think.

Jesus, well, Lucifer said, the subtitle for last night, Lucifer said, try something new.

And philosophically, you can make an interesting case that it wasn't in some ways that different from the law of heaven, which is service for others.

Now, you look at that selfishness, service for others, yeah, and you see the difference, but it would have been an interesting way, and we covered that last night, so I can't cover that anymore.

Christ's subtitle here today is let me show you.

To carry the thread, we have to begin with Lucifer's accusations.

If you go through, as I did, 134, 000 hits in the Ellen White writings, I boiled it down to there were only 9 accusations which Lucifer brought against the government of heaven.

My theory on that was, you know, if an argument starts and you can find out what the argument's over, then maybe you're better prepared to resolve the argument.

And so I went looking for the accusations of Lucifer against the government of heaven.

Angels are holy by nature and wise enough to govern themselves so they don't need God's law.

God was unfair when he exalted Jesus above Lucifer.

God's law is defective and needs to be changed.

And perhaps the measure of that change is neither angels nor human beings can obey God's law.

Number 7, actually, we won't have time to touch on this at all, other than for me to say that this is the 1 that everything hinges on, and if you want to go wading into really fascinating deep territory, Look into Lucifer's charge on number 7.

As a result of God saying, no, it is not arbitrary, Lucifer said, in that case, it makes forgiveness impossible.

And number 9, God is lying about all the above.

And since I see people diligently taking pictures of that slide, I will just simply mention that my PDFs of my presentations are always available on AudioVerse and you can get the whole thing from downloading it there.

So you don't have to spend all the electrons necessary to record them here.

Now, I left the audience last night with the question, if you're God, what do you do next?

The first 8 would have logically or simply or reasonably invited an explanatory comment.

God could say, well, let me discuss the angelic nature.

God could say, let me tell you about Jesus.

God could say, let me explain what pride really is and how that works.

None of that was possible because of the ninth accusation.

The ninth accusation in terms of formal logic is called poisoning the well.

When you say that your opponent is lying, It doesn't matter what he says.

Now what's interesting about this situation that God found himself in, that God had found themselves, however you want to phrase that, I'm not trying to pick a theological argument there.

But anyhow, however you want to deal with that, God now has to deal with these accusations.

And you know, you would think that God being God is probably saying, oh, I don't know, I could do it like this, or I could do it like that, I could do this, I could do that.

You know, God has a thousand means to provide for our needs of which we know nothing.

There was 1 way, only 1 way, and it's fascinating the stuff that God couldn't do.

How should the universe know that Lucifer is not a safe and just leader?

They cannot see as God sees beneath the outward covering, they cannot know as God knows.

Then to work to unmask Him and make plain to the angelic host that His judgment, Lucifer's judgment, is not God's judgment, that He has made a standard of His own and exposed himself to the righteous indignation of God would create a state of things which must be avoided." God couldn't go there.

God desired that a change take place and that the work of Satan be brought out in its genuine aspect.

But the exalted angel standing next to Christ was opposed to the Son of God.

The underworking was so subtle that it could not be made to appear before the heavenly host as the thing it really was.

Shattering 1 of our cherished childhood mantras, if you wish.

Satan could not be presented to the universe at once in his real character.

His crooked course must be allowed to continue until he should reveal himself as an accuser, a deceiver, a liar, and a murderer.

And we looked last night at the issue of murder.

And what we found was that murder is inherent in sin which begins the moment you doubt, the moment you lose faith in God's love and his wisdom.

There was some point in time when God said, Lucifer, please do this, and Lucifer said, no, that's better.

And the only way you can say that's better is to either say God's not smart enough to figure it out or to say God knows but he's trying to get me to do what's not in my best interest.

So wisdom or love, 1 or the other and both rapidly had to go.

Consequently, I would point out that still, some 6, 000 oddish years later, the solution to the issue is righteousness by faith.

Kellogg: So Close, So Far

Last night it was Lucifer, this morning it was Christ.

Today I'm going to try and do 2 sessions now, and let me tell you what I want to accomplish this session real quickly so that if I don't accomplish it you'll know what I was trying to do.

The premise I'm working on is Ellen White's assurance that the issues involved in the great final crisis are exactly the same issues that started with Lucifer in heaven and that Christ met in his lifetime on earth.

We have, however, a unique modern day exemplification of both sides of that in the person and work of Dr.

You can see the subtitle there, so close, so far.

And that's not so far along, as in so close but so far away type of thing.

And so this, I can tell you, all this material is from a book that I'm currently writing, and this 1 session here is going to try to cover the most ground, and consequently it's going to be the most superficial.

That's not to say that it's not worth your time, but we won't be able to go into a lot of things and I'm going to just go through.

What I want you to grasp is the degree of significance in the 2 phases of Kellogg's life and ministry.

Just for convenience sake I refer to them as the good Kellogg and the bad Kellogg.

There was a time when he was good and he was very good.

And there was a time when he was bad and he was very bad.

And so, I just, more than anything else, we're not going to go into a lot of the details of the hows and the whys in some things, but I want you to at least see that his life stands as a valid representation of both sides of this struggle.

Kellogg is without doubt the most colorful, intriguing individual that Adventism has produced.

Ellen White is in a category of her own because of the whole prophet of the Lord type of thing.

But beyond that, there is no 1 that holds a candle to Kellogg for just interest sake, let's put it that way, okay?

I'm assuming that you at least know that he had something to do with corn flakes, but he had a lot to do with more than that.

He wrote something like 50 some books in his lifetime.

He set the world record for abdominal surgery, 126 I believe it was, without a fatality, at a time when the norm was 20% would die.

If you slice the guy open in the chest, he had a 1 in 5 chance of dying.

And Kellogg went 126 or 46 or something like that, I forget what it was.

He was not always an exemplary Adventist.

He became a strong force for good and due to complicated circumstances, some of his own fault and some of the fault of others, he ended up being a strong force for evil.

And so we're just going to kind of zing through this and catch some of this.

I want you to grasp here, first of all, the possibilities.

Kellogg has done a work that no man I know of among us has had qualifications to do.

Okay, well that's, you know, this is, what's the year on that?

1888, okay, 1880s Adventism, you know, We didn't have a lot of what you would call highly educated professionals in those days.

Kellogg was clearly the most educated Adventist on the face of the earth.

So you could look at that and just say, well, okay, that's nice.

That's a very naturalistic explanation for that 1.

My dear brother, as I have before written to you, I know that the Lord has placed you in a very responsible position, standing as you do, as the greatest physician in our world.

Now this is a fascinating comment for a number of reasons.

Number 1 is this was actually written to Kellogg.

It was very rare that she did anything that would sound like flattery writing to him.

She would praise him and support him writing to his enemies, okay, and she would praise and support his enemies writing to him, okay.

So it was unusual for her to say something like this, and I would argue that Ellen White very rarely employs exaggeration as a literary technique.

So I think there's something significant in that comment.

And the fact of the matter is unfortunately that the church by and large failed to do that which contributed to his difficulties.

Kellogg with earnest untiring energy has testified by his works that he believes the word of God, and that he is not content to be merely a theoretical believer.

His work in the medical machinery line has had the appearance of being disproportionately large.

But he has seen the feeble efforts put forth by the churches whose practice has not been proportionate to the like.

He looked like he was disproportionately large, but that was really because everything else was disproportionately small.

And he has undertaken to educate his students to do service for the Lord.

In this he has only tried to walk in the light.

He has been doing the very work the Lord has specified should be done." Kellogg got a lot of comments like this, or there were a lot of support comments like that.

This is not a fanatical and superstitious work.

It is the work that Christ did when he was in our world.

And that's the key thing to the importance.

Kellogg grasped, if you were in the presentation this morning, this combined work of Christ, of preaching the truth and ministry, as L.Y.

Puts it in another place, the combined work of Christ-like ministry of the body and Christ-like ministry of the soul.

And so it is the work that Christ did when he was in our world.

The Lord has wrought with him in surgical operations, giving him wisdom and success.

Men not of our faith feel that although Dr.

Kellogg is a Seventh-day Adventist, yet he has wisdom and knowledge and a wide influence.

They feel that it would be the height of folly to ignore this.

Okay, there are many more of those kind of statements.

1 more here, you need to practice health reform as just as conscientiously as Dr.

Okay, so yeah, you know, she supported him.

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Series

Dave Fiedler: Core of the Controversy

Kellogg: So Close, So Far

Transcript

Parent Series

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Recorded

Parts

Lucifer: Try Something New

1h 10m

Christ: Let Me Show You

1h

Kellogg: So Close, So Far

1h 5m

Omega: Nothing New Here

58m

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