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Hope Channel

Inverse, 3rd Quarter 2021: Sexuality

Justin Kim

Israel Ramos

Jonathan Walter

Callie Williams

01 Counter-Cultural

There's something called scripts that are floating all around.

They dictate what we say and how we sit and how we present ourselves, even on the screen, on this episode of Inverse.

Coming to you from Silver Spring, Maryland, welcome to Inverse, a Bible-based conversation on life principles, contemporary issues, and thought-provoking perspectives.

Now here's your host, Justin Kim, with Inverse.

Hey friends, my name is Justin Kim and you're watching Inverse and we are here in the studio with my friends Jonathan, Kelly and Israel And on this quarter, we are talking about the topic of biblical sexuality The subject matter is a bit sensitive So if you have minors in the area or within your Washington vicinity, we want to give you a heads up and that viewer discretion is advised.

Are you excited to talk about this topic?

I know this is a very sensitive topic, but the Bible does talk a lot about sexuality and we want to invite you to go to inversebible.org and you can download and get the Bible study guides.

We have previous quarters on different books of the Bible on different topics and we believe that this topic is 1 that is very important for our generation today.

So, we want to invite you to go to that website.

We'll have a prayer and Israel if you can pray for us and we'll get into our subject today.

Father in Heaven, thank You for the opportunity that we have to study your word.

And specifically this topic, Father, we want to ask your presence to be with us, to guide us, in Jesus' name, amen.

Let's go to Romans chapter 12, verses 1 and 2.

And, Callie, if you can read that for us.

I beseech you therefore brethren by the mercies of God that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service and do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

Now we are talking about this topic of sexuality And I don't know, I get excited because the Bible talks about sexuality and we're going to address this.

But for some people, these 2 topics are kind of like, what?

I know you're probably watching out there and you're either like, yay, we're talking about this.

Why is that discomfort there when it comes to biblical, spiritual, religious, and theology and the Bible, and then when it comes to this other world?

Well, the Bible, as we just read here, calls us to a holy life.

And historically, sexuality and holiness have always been kind of presented as 2 things that are opposite of each other.

Sex has been presented often as this dirty thing, this thing we don't talk about, and there's shame involved, and all these things that we feel uncomfortable talking about.

And so there has been this disconnect really that the idea that everything has to do with the physical is not as important as the spiritual.

And religion is in your mind, faith is in your mind, and sexuality, that's your body, and even, you know, some religious denominations and so on, they will still promote this idea that sexuality is something that is lower and should not be so much focused on, it's not as important as the spiritual.

So let's let's back up a little we're gonna get there and and definitely definitely true that there's all these scripts what they call these are ideas these are things floating around so Israel tell me a bit more about these scripts.

Actual little pieces of fortune cookies flying around in the sky or what are they?

I think as societies, we just have we normally have these codes by which we function, these societal values.

And in some cultures, for example, it'll say that if you're a male, then you have this role, this script to play.

If you're a female, you have this kind of script that you must follow.

And these are really values that society places upon us as human beings.

And certainly sexuality is 1 of those scripts.

It tells us how it is that we should function.

What are things that are okay for us to do?

What are things that are not okay for us to do?

I think what's interesting too about scripts is it even dictates the smallest parts of our lives.

So like a script that I've learned in my home is you don't start eating your meal at a restaurant or at home unless everyone has food.

But there are, I go to other people's homes and the host can be offended if you don't start eating as soon as they give you food.

But those are different scripts and different ways that have influenced my behavior.

So I love you mentioned cultural mores and values and you mentioned codes and dictating roles that we play in society.

They also can impact like me talking with my hands or maybe me not talking with my hands, how we sit, even the clothes like this is appropriate.

I don't know fashion-wise, it is tolerable for our day and age, but maybe not for a hundred or 500 years ago.

How we interact in every single way, not just the abstract stuff, but also the very concrete things.

You know, there's also these massive scripts that are above entire societies.

You know, I moved from Europe to the United States and then a huge script in the United States is the idea of the American dream, right?

And like, you know, you go to college, you get married, you buy a house.

White picket fence, you know, all these things that you're supposed to do.

This is the script you're supposed to follow or at least strive after.

And that was quite new to me coming from the European context where it's okay to rent a little apartment for your entire life and you don't have to have a house, etc., etc.

So I thought that was something that was quite interesting and now that I've lived here for a couple years I can tell that that script definitely has affected me because you start thinking this way, but I still need to do this and make sure my retirement and da da da da da.

So some of these are definitely in the forefront of your brain, but you're saying there's some that are kind of like presuppositional there in the back of your brain.

Well they ultimately shape entirely who you are because now Jonathan is living the American dream more than I am.

It affects who we are, I think, at the very core of our being.

And you have these values, these scripts that are floating around.

You also have these mechanisms of art like movies and media and music and they capture these Floating around things and they put it into music or movie video form and then as you say, it's the American dream But because of the cultural power of North America these values maybe not in Europe and not in Austria, but the rest of the world, wants to live like the values that America has projected on them.

Yeah, and these groups are communicated, as you said, through stories, which is really powerful.

And it has, And as you said, it has affected the entire world because people want to follow the North American way, et cetera, et cetera.

So it's really, when you think about it, it's kind of scary because it makes you a little uncomfortable.

Like, am I controlling my own life or am I being controlled by the scripts that other people have, you know, implanted into me?

Yeah, even with, I mean, just the response to him, even if you're gonna be like, I'm not gonna abide by any script, you have to abide by some script to go against that script.

And I think it's, I also just like the usage of the word script here because I think sometimes we can say, oh, it's the same thing as subliminal messaging.

Because subliminal messaging, well, it's usually subliminal.

But there are some scripts that are subliminal, like maybe your family doesn't say, like I can't, well actually recently that did happen.

Someone in my family told my youngest brother like you don't eat until everyone has gotten their food because he wasn't operating by the script.

But before that interaction, I'd heard no 1 say that.

And so this is different though, because you can get it explicitly from movies and different things like that.

Some of these are genetically passed down, not genetically in our bodies, but through the family upbringing and education, they are passed down implicitly.

You're just like, what is everyone doing?

Sebastien Braxton

Sikhu Daco

02 Naked

Not physically naked, but spiritually naked is the topic for this episode of Inverse.

Now, here's your host, Justin Kim, with Inverse.

My name is Justin Kim and in the studio we have my friends Sebastian, Kelly, and Siku.

And we are talking about the topic of biblical sexuality.

It is a sensitive subject matter so if you have minors in the area we're going to give you a little bit of a heads up and you may want to clear out the room in the car or switch to something else and come back to us later but viewer discretion is advised.

On our episode we're looking at the concept of spiritual nakedness.

So this is our episode's title, Being Naked.

And we are in a arc, 13 week arc, on looking at the topic of biblical sexuality.

So if you're here for some other nefarious purpose, you can switch to another channel.

Heavenly Father, we are so privileged to be able to study your word.

And Lord, this topic is perhaps uncomfortable in ways that it needs to be and in ways maybe that it doesn't.

But Lord, we just pray that the Spirit of God that Jesus promised would guide us into all truth as we converse today is our prayer in Jesus' name, amen.

We're going to go to scripture, but before we actually get there, I'm going to ask Callie if you can kind of, we actually had a great episode last episode, and if you can kind of give us a recap, because a lot of that will impact what we're talking about today.

And if you've been watching, this is your first episode here and you're like, whoa, what are these guys talking about?

The backgrounds, you know, it's got this, you know, pink stuff going on, like this kind of, it is, this is a very risque subject, but we believe it's very important because scripture talks about it.

And what are some highlights that you remember from our last episode?

Yeah, so the first episode we talked about how we're all influenced by scripts.

So this idea that there are explicitly stated but also not so explicitly stated rules of how we talk about certain things, how we hold ourselves, and even about sexuality.

So there are scripts that we're told by social media or by movies or by people we're related to or by our friends, but also there are scripts that are found in scripture.

And ultimately we came to the conclusion that we shouldn't rely on ourselves or even things that we see in the world as our standards of what we should think is the proper script, but instead we should evaluate all of them by the Word of God.

Sexuality is 1 of those topics that once you see in scripture that you see it really everywhere, and that sexuality is a very, it's a sacred topic to talk about.

And so this is the premise that we're coming from.

We don't want to take this topic lightly or frivolously, and we want, there are some real-time applications and lessons that we can come away with.

Siku, I know our verse is Psalms 139, but I'd like to switch gears and go to another verse where we find our episode title coming from.

And I think that would probably be better that that set up our conversation here.

In Genesis chapter 3, verse 6 and 7, and see if you can read for us, and then we'll go to Psalms 139 also.

Verse 6, it says, so when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes and a tree desirable to make 1 wise, she took of its fruit and ate.

She also gave to her husband with her and he ate.

Then the eyes of both of them were opened and they knew that they were naked and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves coverings.

Okay, so let's talk about this verse a little bit, spend some time here.

I don't know about you guys when but the first time I read this first when I was a little kid I was just like you know, the giggles come out and we're like, and just trying to like, how, how does, what, what?

Like, it's just like, here's a huge disconnect, right?

Yeah, well, I think something that's interesting at the very beginning, in, in verse 7, it doesn't say that their eyes were open and they became naked.

It's that their eyes were open, they realized they were naked.

So there was something, it wasn't something that physically happened of their nakedness.

It was something that was fine became not fine.

And so the idea of nakedness too is just like, it's okay to be open even, and just using the word nakedness loosely to talk about like, you know, sharing vulnerability and things like that.

It's okay to be that way unless you want to hide something for whatever reason, a good reason, bad reason, whatever.

And so for them, it's like they were open and it was fine, but they realized that to them, it was no longer fine because of what happened in this experience.

Just to buttress Callie's point in chapter 2, verse 25, I mean, it's stated explicitly, Genesis 2, 25, it says, and they were both naked, the man and his wife, but then it says, and were not ashamed.

So it wasn't the physical reality of being naked because it already said that they were naked, But what happened in verse 7 of chapter 3 was not at a physical level per se, but it was as a result of what happened in the previous verses.

They had this realization that, you know, they had an encounter that led them to a different metaphysical experience.

So on a very literal level, we find in other passages that they were clothed with glory and what that looks like.

But on a spiritual level, this is, this is just, this, this transcends just a, they're not wearing clothes, right?

I think that's the point we're trying to get to.

When the Bible says at the very beginning of the verse, it says then the eyes of both of them were opened, right?

So this is not suggesting that they were blind, right?

So there's a recognition that the author is trying to communicate to us that there was a revelation that just took place as a result of this sin.

And so, this nakedness as a revelation wasn't so much that they realized that they were naked as much as it's contrasting that verse 25 that Sikhu was talking about.

So, the eyes being opened, it's like, well, they knew that they were naked, but then they went to sow fig leaves.

So, you see the contrast between being naked and not ashamed, being naked, knowing you're naked, and being like, well, we need to sow coverings.

So, there's obviously a feeling of, you know, as Callie used the word, exposure that has come from the result of sin in the human experience.

It's completely changed our relationship with vulnerability.

It's completely changed our relationship with being exposed.

Let me ask you, because these concepts of shame is emerging from this conversation, right?

And how does that differ from, I'm sure that The Bible doesn't talk about it, but you see evidence of it.

We have some of the concepts of secrecy, and it's a very comical passage in a sense, like God who knows everything, who sees everything, and then he's hiding in a bush, you know, some boxwood bush and then he's like here and he's hiding and God's like, where are you?

And he answers like, I'm just like, this is not making sense on any rational level.

So this is not, this has nothing to do with the physical world.

This isn't hide and go seek, but there is a, there's a lot of spiritual firsts that are coming out, spiritual problems, there's a diagnosis of shame, of guilt, of secrecy, of privacy.

So tell me more about this, Callie, and then Sebastian.

So shame and guilt are sometimes used interchangeably, but they're not the same thing.

Guilt is focused more outward, like I did something bad and this action or this experience hurt someone or things like that.

And it's kind of like, this is something I did, but it's not who I am.

So I did something, now I am a terrible person and I feel very terrible inwardly.

1 is more ontological and 1 is more existential.

And when you're, when you're looking at this, the very idea that they were covering themselves, right?

03 One of Two Gifts

God has given us 2 gifts of which we can choose from, 1 of which is singleness.

If you've been around young adult or single communities out there, there is always that 1 auntie who's out there trying to get people married off.

On this episode we're going to look at the gift of singleness.

My name is Justin Kim and in the studio we have Sebastian, Israel, and Siku with us.

We are looking at the topic of sexuality, and it is a very sensitive matter, as we have covered in the last 2 episodes.

And we want to encourage you that if you have minors, or maybe if the subject is not appropriate, to be mindful that this is the topic, and that viewer discretion is advised.

Siku, if you can pray for us, and we'll jump into Isaiah.

Loving Father, we're so thankful that we can come to your word to find guidance on all aspects of our lives.

And we pray that now as we're going to discuss particularly singleness in the context of biblical sexuality, that the Holy Spirit would be our teacher, put words in our mouths so that the ideas that are presented are not our own thoughts, but are representative of what your word teaches.

I know we said Isaiah, but we're going to actually go to Isaiah eventually.

Matthew, Matthew chapter 19, Matthew chapter 19, verse 10 through 12.

And Sebastian, if you can read those verses for us.

His disciples said to him, if such is the case of the man with his wife, it is better not to marry.

But he said to them, all cannot accept this saying, but only those to whom it has been given.

For there are eunuchs who are born thus from their mother's womb.

And there are eunuchs who are made eunuchs by men.

And there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake.

He who is able to accept it, let him accept it.

So we are looking at this topic of biblical sexuality.

We will cover it in a couple episodes from now that sexuality requires 2 individuals, not 1, not 3, not 4, 2.

And there's something powerful about that number.

I mean, He uses the word eunuchs in the old way.

And I want to ask Israel, like, why is it that...

Let's just...we're just gonna back...zoom out a bit.

And I'm gonna ask you a long time ago, like a long time ago when you were single.

For us it's been very recent, but for you it was like a long time ago.

Yeah, anyway, so especially in church communities, no, people wanna like find the single person and get them married off.

And for what it's worth, we do appreciate their ministry, so to speak.

I mean, a lot of marriages have happened in that respect.

But why, There's this passion that people feel like that singleness is not a form of righteousness and marriage is.

I think part of that just really has to do with the fact that some people are old school, you know, and then tradition has set in the minds of people that they think marriage is an essential part of growing up.

And so, I think more than it being a biblical reason for why these people in church want to marry you off, It has to do with their sense of stress, you know, you're not going to be happy, you're going to be single for the rest of your life, you're not going to ever find the happiness that you're craving for.

And so I think more out of a sense of fear that people won't be happy, they kind of try to push people along, I never had that situation, Sebastian on the other hand, so I think that that's really, that's really, and then I think you couple with that the fact that marriage is a biblical thing and so there are, you know, people think to themselves, unless you're married, you're not following that whole command of God, you know, that it's not good for a man to be alone, or that, you know, God made male and female, created He them to be in His image.

So, there is tension between verses like this, where Jesus says, or Paul says, it's better that you shouldn't be married.

And then they always balance that with God saying that it is not good for man to be alone.

Well, I think 1 of the tensions you have to navigate in that discussion, right, between what Paul and Jesus are saying, In the same passage in Matthew 19, He's saying, you know, in the beginning, it was not so, right?

So, it shows that when God created humanity, His ideal was for marriage to exist, right?

Everyone to experience the joy of that intimacy.

But in a sinful world, we find that there is a blessing and a goodness to singleness.

And I think Jesus' point is some people make themselves for that reason to build up the kingdom of heaven's sake.

And I think a lot of people who push that direction are sometimes trying to vicariously live through other people.

And I've had individuals that, you know, I was having conversations with and they were trying to push me and push me and push me, you know, early in my collegiate years, like, hey, go ahead and get married.

And, you know, I had my own reservations, right?

I had my own setbacks in prayer that, you know, I felt like God wasn't moving me in that direction.

And finally, after persistence, the person just came out and told me like, well, Sebastian, I just want you to get married because, you know, when I got married, you know, I got converted after I was married and my spouse did not follow You know in that same path and it's been tension in our marriage And I want you to experience the joy of having someone in the same faith in marriage And I'm like I understand your situation, You know, and obviously that's a sad situation, but at the same time, you know, we have to be careful that we're not pushing people into premature marriages.

Right, for the sake of my own resolution emotionally that I'm trying to vicariously.

They're often imposing their experience on another person and say, because it was that way, and if it happened to me, it would have rectified my situation, so I need to push it on somebody else.

I think Sebastian's butchersing what Israel said, but I think that sometimes imposing what our cultural expectations are, and then we justify it with scripture.

And so then we're using the Bible to, you know, to say, to, to Godify it, you know, holify it, but really it's just, yeah.

And there are some cultures that where it is culturally righteous to be married and they just kind of, like you said, they just take Bible and they put it in and there's other cultures that don't have that, you don't see that pressure.

I want to go back to scripture here, which I just find a little bit to be, a little bit, I always read scripture with a little bit of a humorous bend, especially of the 12 disciples.

In verse 8 and 9, Jesus is talking about, hey, you know, you should only get divorce if there's sexual immorality, right?

We're going to cover that in a future episode about divorce.

And then the response to that was in verse 10, as the disciple said to him, if such is the case of a man with his wife, then it is better that he doesn't marry at all.

Like I just find that to be kind of an interesting reaction.

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Series

Inverse, 3rd Quarter 2021: Sexuality

06 Marital Sexuality: Twoness

Transcript

Parent Series

Sponsor

Recorded

Parts

01 Counter-Cultural

27m

02 Naked

27m

03 One of Two Gifts

27m

04 Incredible Sex

27m

05 Marital Sexuality: Oneness

27m

06 Marital Sexuality: Twoness

27m

07 Marital Sexuality: Sameness of Nature

27m

08 Marital Sexuality: Difference

27m

09 Interconnectedness

27m

10 Pre-Marital Sexuality

27m

11 When Things Go Wrong

27m

12 Beyond Sexuality

27m

13 Purity

27m

Sound Doctrine