In this episode, Dr. K’dee Crews and Dr. Daniel Binus discuss what dark psychology is: the science of manipulation and mind control.

<p>In this episode, Dr. K’dee Crews and Dr. Daniel Binus discuss what dark psychology is: the science of manipulation and mind control.</p>

<p>Free sharing permitted under the Creative Commons <a rel="license" href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/3.0/us/">BY-NC-ND 3.0 (US)</a> license.</p>

Beautiful Minds Wellness

The Brain People Podcast 2025

Amanda Anguish

Daniel Binus

Politics and Mental Health

Welcome to the Brain People podcast, a show where 4 mental health experts team up to bring you practical tools for overcoming mental health challenges.

The Brain People don't replace your doctor or therapist, but we will give you some extra tools to help you on your journey.

So join us as we fight mental illness, 1 episode at a time.

Amanda Anguish, and I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist.

All right, well, today we're gonna have some, I don't know if I should say it fun, but it's gonna be an interesting topic.

And we're going to be talking about the effect of politics on mental health.

And this is a very timely topic because I've been having a lot of discussions with many of my patients about this very topic and the impact.

I didn't realize until we hit this recent election cycle what a dramatic effect it can have.

I don't know if you've noticed that on some of your interactions with patients as well.

Yeah, I've noticed a lot of people have been talking about it, even up through the election and then post-election.

And in fact, I think I just heard recently, well, I know I heard recently, it was 87% of therapists suggest that they're talking about politics in their therapy sessions.

Yeah, it's probably close to 100% it seems like nowadays.

So with politics being such a hot topic and affecting people's mental health and often not in such a good way, why do people even get involved in politics in the first place?

I mean, why don't we just steer clear of that whole arena?

But it seems like people often get attracted to that.

And that's probably why they're affected so much by it, because a lot of people do find great satisfaction in being involved in politics.

So for example, 1 of the reasons that we love being involved or at least reading about politics or watching it is because it makes us feel like we're doing our civic duty.

I might be 1 vote or I might be 1 person, but I'm getting out there and I'm being proactive and active in politics.

And I'm sure there's that sense of like you said, okay, I'm 1 vote, but I can influence other people to vote a certain way, Or I can try to sway things so that maybe more of what the agenda I want.

So there's that element of really wanting to influence things for a brighter future.

And when you're being told that, like, your vote counts and make a difference.

So that's 1 of the reasons why we get involved.

Another reason is something called social capital.

I mean, we all want to be connected to people, but social capital has to do with the fact that it's an easy way to connect with people.

If you have a political viewpoint and you find your tribe, then it's really easy to stick with those people and then build relationships based on that 1 solid thing you have in common.

That's an interesting thing that you just said there because I think a lot of people nowadays lack social connection.

I mean the data is out there right that there's more and more loneliness And so when people have that sense of isolation, and especially if they're not engaged, not only with the community, but in the past, more people were engaged in church and that sort of thing.

And if they're not involved in more of those sorts of things, it seems like people can more easily gravitate and say like, okay, I have a cause to live for and a place to connect with people.

And in a way it can almost become a quasi sort of spiritual or religious sort of involvement, if you will.

And we all know the God that they're often worshipping is maybe their candidate too.

But that social capital, like you said, is very similar to like a church community or a social club community, that it's 1 thing, and we all suddenly have something in common, and we can build off of that.

So some people don't even leave their homes, but they have their tribe based on whatever blog they're following or social media group that they're a part of.

Which is an interesting thing because nowadays we have people more and more moving toward the virtual space and the non-in-person space becoming in a lot of respects more important than what they're doing in the day-to-day real world, so to speak.

And then the next 1 that we recognize why people get involved in politics, it's a hobby just about anybody can be a part of, you know.

So you have something to, you have some kind of meaning and purpose that you're involved in.

If you can't cook, you can still be involved in politics.

If you can't, you know, if you're not great at sports, well, you can still be involved in politics.

So it gives you something to connect yourself to, to give yourself purpose.

So you don't have to leave your room or your house to do it, but it gives you a sense of like, I've got this hobby that I'm a part of.

So are you saying that politicians, they left their day jobs because they weren't doing so well at that?

Well, all of this is leading to something that we term election stress disorder.

Even though there's something that draws us into it, whether it's, you know, having people around us, a hobby, or some kind of like civic duty, it's still having a huge impact on people.

And when you really think about it, it's almost like an addiction.

You know, yes, there are benefits of it, but then what are the consequences of it too?

And I'm not saying that we shouldn't be involved in politics, but the side effects of it look a lot like addiction in terms of, you know, well, what does stress look like?

Stress, you know, racing thoughts, even physical manifestations, stomach aches, headaches, those sorts of things, not being able to sleep or eat.

All of these things are similar to, you know, things that we experience with stress, but they're all specifically related to election.

Yeah, and in your experience, and I don't know if you've read anything on this, Would you say that this whole election stress symptomology, does that tend to occur more leading up to the election or more after?

Or is it gonna be, I can imagine it could probably go either way depending on if your candidate is elected or not.

Yeah, and I think, you know, so I know we're similar age, but I don't remember any elections having the effect on us or politics having the effect on us.

Maybe I just wasn't paying attention until roughly about 2016.

That's when I started really noticing, but what happened before that, social media.

And so you take these things, and even nowadays what I see around me too is that people are making their lives based on politics.

And I don't mean just like politicians, Congress people, president, that sort of thing.

But now we have social media influencers that their whole, you know, life purpose in their social media influencing is about what side of politics they're on, sometimes bashing on the opposing candidate that they support or, you know, building up their candidates.

It's funny that we're talking about this after this 2024 election, but I saw this back in 2016.

Absolutely, and that's where I think a lot of, at least people I've talked to, wanna just blame 1 particular candidate, namely Donald Trump.

Because it's the elephant in the room, right?

But you're saying that it might be more than just Donald Trump.

Yeah, there's, because we have social media, and I remember back in 2016, I even got off social media because I realized that People that I loved, like truly loved, they were posting like incessantly on 1 subject.

And I would have to remind myself, Amanda, this person isn't just a Republican or a Democrat.

They're also a father, a mother, a friend, a church member, that sort of thing.

And I had to remind myself, this is just what they're posting.

But if we get involved in these election-type situations where we're watching it, listening to it, we're literally consuming it 24-7 because we can now, what does that do to us?

You know, I see couples who didn't care about politics up until, you know, 1 decided, oh, I must be Republican.

And now they can't get along anymore because even though they never brought it up before when they got married, now 20, 30 years later, suddenly it's gonna break up their marriage.

Yeah, and it's interesting because I think you're really onto something there, even from my observations and research on the effect of social media on people.

1 thing that I've noticed is that in general, not just with politics, but even like with the whole pandemic and everything, it created this very large polarization.

And I think that's how social media, when you look at how it's built out to basically send you information based on your interests.

Okay, let's say I have a little interest in, let's just use something more, maybe a little more neutral.

Like, let's say I have a little interest in like a skincare product, right?

Well, what's, what, and, and, and maybe I'm not like doing that much research on it, but social media somehow, you know, through, it's always watching, right?

And then now suddenly, like you're getting more and more of this and pretty soon you're like, oh yeah, yeah.

Psychology of Marketing

So join us as we fight mental illness 1 episode at a time.

Daniel Bynas, and I'm a psychiatrist, and I'm joined today by my co-host.

All right, well, today we are going to be talking about the psychology of marketing.

So if you've ever been duped or maybe you know somebody who has by some sales promotion or something, or you don't want to be duped, then this is for you.

And Amanda, Let's start out by asking you, what is your interest?

Why are you interested in this topic, the psychology of marketing?

Well, before I became a therapist, my undergraduate degree was in public relations.

And with that, I took marketing and advertising classes and that sort of thing, and I even spent some time doing fundraising for a living.

So I've always been interested in the psychology of just about anything, And particularly, I've told people that, no offense to anybody who's in marketing, but if I didn't have a conscience, I would love to do marketing psychology.

And as someone who likes to think through all of my decisions, I wanna not be duped when I'm out there buying things and buying things I think I need, but I don't.

And I also wanna help other people understand the science of marketing and the psychology of marketing to help themselves understand themselves better when they go out there as a consumer.

Yeah, a lot of this ends up boiling down to why do people choose to do the things that they do, especially of course, when it comes to spending money, but that's something most of us do several times a week, usually maybe even every day, right?

And so it's a very interesting topic because when you think even about the stressors that people face, what's the number 1 stressor that most people think about when they think about stress?

Well, actually, according to surveys, it is finances.

And so, when we talk about thinking how to deal with marketing and not getting suckered into some of these things, I think it's really important to understand some of the psychology behind that so that we don't just automatically go with whatever we maybe feel like in the moment or what looks shiny and new and interesting.

Because by doing that, we can really save ourselves a lot of stress, a lot of relational problems, a lot of sleepless nights perhaps.

And so, Amanda, I really appreciate that you have taken the time and you're not only have the background with psychology, but you also understand because of your training some of the elements of marketing.

And so could you help us maybe understand a little bit about some of the psychology that goes into marketing?

Because I think in order not to get tricked by something, it's helpful to understand a little bit more what's behind that, how they use marketing to, perhaps at times we might even say manipulate us into doing things that we don't necessarily want to do.

I mean, sometimes suddenly I feel like I need something even though before I never thought or even thought about or knew it existed, right?

And I think 1 of the starting points that's really important is to help people understand that behind just about every single product that's out there, especially the big brand ones, There are a group of scientists and psychologists that are working really hard to understand people's behaviors and their thinking in order to figure out how to sell their product to that person.

So it's not just, oh, somebody had a good idea for a product and then they put it out on the market.

But there's a lot of psychology even to the success of that product being in people's homes and in their hands or services because of the psychologist behind that.

So it used to, you know, when say a couple goes to buy a car, there, maybe they've seen multiple commercials for that car.

And typically, I mean, I don't want to be very generalized in this, but typically men want certain things from a car versus women want other things from a car.

And so if the couple goes together, the psychologists understand the dynamics of that.

By the way, they also understand who often vetoes the decision.

It's the woman who often makes the final decision for the car.

Because say, for instance, the husband or the man in the relationship will say, oh, it's fast, or oh, it looks cool, or it drives this way or that way.

Well, the wife will often say, but honey, this one's the safest 1.

And so the psychologists know, well, where do we want this car to land in terms of, if we know the women are often making the choices.

So a sports car wouldn't necessarily go for the safest person because maybe men are more prone to buy sports cars.

But if it's a minivan, who do you think is going to make the final decision on that?

So they're going to build up all of the things that maybe women would care about because they're probably gonna make the final decision on that.

And so there's, and you think about the amount of money that's spent on making these products, you better believe there's gonna be a lot of money on- Millions per product sometimes.

Right, on marketing them because otherwise it's a waste.

And so there is a lot of money spent on the psychology.

So can you Tell us a little more, some of the details behind the psychology when it comes to marketing to us as consumers.

Yeah, so there's generally 4 Ps of marketing.

The first one's product, and that has to do with the name.

We see a lot of pharmaceutical companies, and they just have these interesting names.

Sometimes it has a little bit of the diagnosis in it that it's used for, plus a bunch of extra Xs, Ys, and Zs or something.

Also, the design of the package, the packing that it goes into when it's sold.

Does it satisfy a need that the person has?

And does it provide an experience for that person?

And that's just the first of the 4 Ps product.

And you think that that's, well, yeah, they have to think of a price, but there's a lot of psychology that goes into, well, how much would people spend on this versus how much do we want to make on it versus how many people do we think actually want the product?

Do we put it at a high price point because then they see it as a luxury item versus a lesser price point, even though the quality is the same as something else on the market.

So all of these things are important in terms of the price.

How and where do consumers find the product?

So if you go into a grocery store, they call them, they call them like, oh, I can't even remember the name, but they'll put certain products at the end of the aisle so you see them when you're going in.

End caps, that's what they're called, yes.

Or even they have, say they place the sugar cereals down where the kids can see them as their eyes go by versus where do the healthy cereals wind up?

I think the health department should intervene there.

That seems like a real hazard for America's health.

Yeah, The healthy ones tend to be on the upper parts of the shelves where the adults are going to reach them.

But certain products will actually pay for a certain place in the supermarket, knowing that, oh, a kid could reach it here.

Or if the kid's in the shopping cart, they can just lean over and grab it.

So parents have a hard time saying no, and then it winds up in their cart.

The public relations of it, That's part of what I learned in school.

And how do we entice somebody to actually make this purchase?

And a lot of people know in marketing that if you get somebody, and this is happening early and earlier, if you get somebody to buy a product earlier in life, they tend to be more loyal to it.

So we're seeing, you know, with cartoons and stuff on TV, certain advertisements that I want this kid to get to like this, which encourages the parent to buy it, which then this kid will stay loyal to this brand for the rest of their life.

Well, you wonder why some of these fast food chains have playgrounds.

Right, that's a great way to- And happy meals.

Yes, all of that is a great way to just suck those kids right in and they're like, oh, this is, I remember that fondly in my childhood and you have that experience, right?

It's not just eating a meal and getting food, it's a whole experience.

And even the toy, They may lose some money on the toy, but they're gaining it in loyalty over time.

So they're creating something that's going to have long-term stamina.

And so that even if the kid gets a stomachache after they eat what they do, they're like, but I have the toy!

And the toy might wind up in the trash eventually, but they have that memory of playing in the playground, having the toy, that sort of thing.

Because usually I've always thought of marketing more on the promotion side, but there's so much even that goes on before that to make sure that it's something that could be appealing to me.

And then the promotion seems like that's kind of like, okay, now I'm going to get your attention and seal the deal, so to speak.

But there's a lot of background that goes on there that you don't even think about.

An interesting story with that is, I believe it was JC Penny that they, they would have these and they may still have them.

K'dee Elsen Crews

Complex PTSD Part 1

Daniel Bynas, and I'm joined today by my co-host.

All right, today we are going to be talking about a hot topic and that is complex PTSD.

So complex post-traumatic stress disorder.

And this is a topic that's actually gained quite a bit of traction over the last few years.

And some people might be confused how this is different than your classic PTSD.

Katie, can you just elaborate a little bit on what complex PTSD is, how that's related to potentially PTSD, post-traumatic stress disorder, and we'll Go from there.

Yeah, so I think to answer that, it helps to know kind of the journey that really the field has been on to understand PTSD, and I would say maybe trauma at large.

And so come with me on a journey of history, very simplified.

But basically, about in the 1980s is when, early 1980s, is when PTSD was recognized as a diagnosis.

And a lot of that research came from Vietnam veterans.

And so with PTSD, there was an emphasis on this life-threatening event, very extreme event, that would cause a host of different symptoms, which we can talk a little bit more about.

But basically, so PTSD was recognized of these symptoms that were happening, a lot of distress in relation to an event.

As time went on, however, people started to realize, well, what about individuals who have had prolonged experiences?

So not just maybe a life-threatening event, whether combat-related or even like a natural disaster or a car accident, but ongoing multiple chronic and complex traumas.

And people started realizing, not only is there a difference in the experience, And so maybe I don't fit the criteria for PTSD in relation to the experience, but also the symptoms are slightly different.

And that started to raise questions in which some people were being misdiagnosed with a host of both PTSD, as well as other personality disorders.

And so they question, is there a better diagnosis?

Judith Herman proposed complex PTSD as a diagnosis that better captured a lot of individuals' experiences that had had exposure to prolonged trauma and more complex symptoms than the PTSD diagnosis presented with.

So you might almost say that the importance of this topic and complex PTSD is really being able to identify individuals who have suffered from trauma, but maybe not those classic, like huge one-time event sort of traumas, like you said, a war, a natural disaster, or a rape, or a car accident.

And so maybe it's just not just one-time thing, but it's chronic, ongoing, long-term traumas.

And sometimes these traumas might not be as profound if you will, or as crazy, you know, as dramatic, maybe is a better word of saying it, but they over, especially over time, they have a huge effect on somebody.

And so does that mean that, whoa, well, they don't meet criteria for PTSD.

I guess they just have an anxiety disorder.

So that's where the idea of complex PTSD comes in where we say, okay, there is this person here really is suffering from trauma, even though it's not that classic, dramatic one-time event sort of trauma.

Yes, and then another layer to that is maybe it is that extreme, but perhaps especially because it's hidden by shame, years later, they're still suffering, but they don't meet the classic PTSD symptoms, like flashbacks, for example.

And so a provider is assessing them and saying, oh, you do not have active PTSD event, symptoms specifically, therefore you're not dealing with trauma.

And so it's either for those who have not experienced such a life-threatening extreme trauma, but still chronic experiences that overall add up to having extreme distress or the opposite where it is extreme, but perhaps they don't meet the active symptoms of PTSD and those extreme events just contributed to other presentations that still cause them distress but not in the same way that PTSD presents itself.

Yeah, and I think it's a very important point that you're making because what I've seen happen actually with a lot of my patients is that they will be confused about why am I the way I am?

And often to the point where they've been misdiagnosed, sometimes bipolar, you mentioned borderline personality disorder, maybe just an anxiety disorder or major depression.

While there might be elements of some of those symptoms, et cetera, A lot of times in my view as a clinician, I look at this individual and I say, wow, they've had so many childhood traumas.

And I think that's important to kind of connect those dots because if we're gonna help people to get better, we need to understand, well, what's the root cause here?

It's like a bipolar thing, or is there just, they're just worrying too much, or what's the core of what we're really dealing with?

Because those core issues need to be dealt with for people to get better, right?

Exactly, and I think a lot of times we have been focused on symptoms and symptoms alone.

And if you take that approach as a provider, as well as a person who's experiencing these things, I may not fit certain clusters of symptoms and or I may fit some, but it doesn't really address the root.

And therefore I'm gonna stay in the cycle of symptom management.

Now, as we're talking about some of those roots, like what kind of traumas would be typical for people to experience that could trigger CPTSD?

And we're not gonna try to do a exhaustive list here, but just what would be some common things that we might see that would trigger CPTSD symptoms?

Yeah, so a key word to think about is prolonged.

And so 1 of the most common examples is childhood abuse.

And within childhood abuse can include all the different forms of abuse but also childhood neglect and abandonment.

So we think about trauma being abuse, but neglect and abandonment, the absence of good happening, can also be in a chronic nature, very problematic, and can create the symptomology of complex PTSD.

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Series

The Brain People Podcast 2025

Dark Psychology

Transcript

Description

Parent Series

Sponsor

Recorded

Parts

Politics and Mental Health

31m

Psychology of Marketing

39m

Complex PTSD Part 1

43m

Complex PTSD Part 2

41m

Anger-Management

42m

DBT Skills

33m

Psychedelics

43m

Dark Psychology

33m

Shame

33m

Men-vs-Women

38m

Sound Doctrine