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Watch and Pray, or Dance and Play?

Karl Tsatalbasidis

Hosting its seventh annual conference, GYC's 2008 theme this was "For This Purpose." How do we find this purpose? By listening to and studying God's Word. Featuring inspirational speakers such as Justin Kim, Randy Skeete, Radim Passer, Chelsy Jourdan, Alistair Huong, Doug Batchelor, and more, this conference leads us in studying how we can reflect Christ's character.

Conference

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  • December 19, 2008
    10:45 AM
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our father in heaven Lord we know that Jesus is coming and we want to be able to sing and praise you with all of our being we already know the angelic hosts are doing so and we want to join in that flyer Lord we pray that you will help us we ask that you will wean us from the things of this world from its principles from this rudiments from its philosophies so that we can have an enlightened worship service one that will praise you with our intellect and with our emotions with our feelings so father we ask that you help us and that you guide us and we thank you for sending your spirit in Jesus name we pray and just for audio verse .org yes go ahead okay the announcement is a fine if there are any chairs available you need to go to that chair otherwise you need to stand in the hallway and saw a lot for those of you that are standing up there you need to find a chair or you need there you need to stand in the hallway for her for safety procedures are right so okay just for audio verse augmenting this pastor Carlton to CDs this saw seminar is the rock and worship music at the end of time and the session the session number six watch and pray or dance and play so in the session will be looking at dancing what about dancing Miriam danced David next and certain versions of the Bible in Psalm one forty nine verse three one fifty verse four it tells us the prison with Vance so why not been introduced dance into the worst service is a Solomon said there is a time to weep a time to laugh a time to mourn and a time to dance now if there is a time to dance it means that there is also not a time to dance right so how would you know whether it is the time to dance right now that's what were going to get into in this in the seminar and even if it is a time to dance here's the second problem what form will the dance be off all right so you got two issues so don't be so quick to when the Bible says only out of prison would dance okay let's do it and we haven't thought about when or how two very important issues and we've been talking a lot about how in the been the previous sessions will I want to link dancing also with theology and philosophy so if any of you were here for the first two sessions you will be able to understand what I'm saying right here and right now in Exodus chapter thirty two of the golden calf the Bible says in verse one up make us gods which will go before us all that's a fundamental change in the concept of God our understanding of God is not limited to what we find in the creation and we also found out there very early in the Christian church they bore Greek philosophy and they made constructions and meanings about God that were interpreted falsely from what they saw in the creation later on the Roman Catholic Church and now Protestant evangelicals have adopted that philosophical structure for their concept in their theological understanding of God so I'll make us gods which will go before us in verse for us as these be thy gods was real which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt out of the house of bondage tomorrow is a feast to the Lord and this is the people sat down to eat and drink and rose up the play and in verse nineteen Moses said are the Bible said that Moses came down and he saw the calf and the dancing the point here is we cannot separate the dance from the theological philosophical structure just like the music artist certain forms go on certain foundations no one builds a skyscraper on a six-inch foundation you cannot say that there is no relationship between the foundation and the structure every builder knows that that's false interestingly enough the building motif is very rich in the Bible for Sprint is chapter three Paul described himself as a master builder was he talking about Rick and mortar know he was talking about concepts ideas that's what he was talking about and so these things are all interrelated so in Exodus chapter thirty two you have a form of dancing that is of course out of control sensual entertaining with all covered that in the previous session there was also dancing at AOP or in the spirit of prophecy some music and dance communicate more than just rhythm melody and harmony if you get that from this seminar my job is almost done if you say that it's neutral he even bought into another philosophical foundation that has no connection with the sanctuary with the three Angels messages and with the pillars of our faith no connection whatsoever if you believe you can worship God anywhere you please you are not building on that foundation is no way and we discovered that many times here so music and dance communicate more than just run the melody and harmony they also communicate theology and philosophy when is it a time to dance you will find that is study your Bible says am looking for mind right now there is something as you study your body that's what we all don't be like brothers the Greg readily appear in Exodus chapter sixteen verse twenty this says that Miriam danced right one is a time to dance and movement of pharmacy this pattern exemplified when did Miriam danced before the Red Sea or after yes it was after God parted the Red Sea that she danced to change about the timbrel and an advanced judges Chapter 11 verse thirty four this is the story of Jeff and his daughter and when just the one that built military victory judges Chapter 11 verse thirty four it was then when his daughter danced with me for saying the Chapter eighteen verse six for Samuel chapter eighteen for six notices after the battle were David had slew the giant Goliath RIAA I noticed what it says in verse six and it came to pass as they came when David was returned from the slaughter of the Philistines that the women came out of all cities of Israel singing and dancing to meet King Saul with hybrids with joy and with instruments of music the only question I'm addressing now is when did the ladies all danced before Dana got there is not they danced afterwards makes sense the Chapter twenty one verse eleven for single twenty one this is where Saul gets a little hot under the collar this is services atheists are sent him on all business all is not this David the king of the land did they not send one to another of him and dance and sing Saul has slain his thousands and David his ten thousands twenty nine verse five same story again the Philistines again is not this David whom they sang one to another and dances sings solve slew thousands and David is involved they did that after he slew the giant for same in chapter thirty four sixteen woman come back to this one the Amalekites David and his men were in sick like the Amalekites came in they they levels of black and so what did they do they thought the battle was over and come back to this little later this is when they had brought him down behold they were spread abroad upon all the earth eating and drinking and dancing because of all the great spoil that they taken a land of the Philistines and of the land of Judah custody Amalekites that they saw a man we beat those Israelites you being an enemy that wasn't even there is solely that they will excuse the decks so they did that and saying that Jeremiah four thirty one verse four and thirteen someone is a time to dance before the battle or after the battle okay it's after a major victory that people want to pick on Miriam and so you know what Miriam was a woman of God I was Moses system and she took up the timbrel and she danced and God never said anything about that nominated Genesis chapter fifteen verse twelve to fourteen God warned Abraham that his descendents would be slaves in Egypt but they would they would also come out of Egypt with great substance it was after that that Miriam danced look at the statement of Richardson stage two eighty nine song the song of Moses that song does not belong to the Jewish people alone a point in which direction forward to the destruction not just of the national Allen these of enemies of Israel four for the destruction of all the folds of righteousness and the final victory of the Israel of God so we got to make a connection here between the song of Moses in which Miriam Bast and the song of the Lamb that DOS people are going to sing in Revelation fifteen minutes that supported here the prophet of the most beholds the white robed multitude of document victory standing on the sea of glass mingled with fire having the harps of God and they sing the song of Moses the servant of God and the song of the Lamb now people want to say what Miriam did it so therefore we can introduce it right now into the worship service when did Solomon say there was a time to mourn and a time to dance one would be the time to dance now all we threw with the issues of the beast in its markets in which now we're not through how we standing on the sea of glass right now now were not so would it be a right time to introduce dance right now according to the typology Nola would not to do that would be to violate the hermeneutical and local principles of interpretation and you do that only to justify what you want to do so you is you have no biblical right to inject that and say will they did it we are but they also children commit adultery on a kind of stuff to so just because something is mentioned in the Bible that Ms. gives you the license to do it without exercising any kind of care in how the Bible is interpreted that's not a responsible way for doing Bible I sold this point forward and we are not through yet within these famous mark as image well what about David he danced a minute to go through a little bit of a study now to try to link David's dancing and Jesus ascension and the implications for us I find it an interesting study look at some chapter twenty four percent in the ten song chapter twenty four in verses seven by the way Psalms chapter twenty two twenty three twenty four scorecard elect trilogy in on Psalm twenty two Jesus is on the cross of your reverse fifteen or sixty dollars of encompass me the assembly of the wicked and told me they pierced my hands and my feet in Psalm twenty three EA though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death I will fear no evil and Islam twenty four verse seven to ten it's a resurrection song in verse the second verse evidences lift up your heads OU Gates M.D. he lifted up ye everlasting doors and the King of glory shall come in think of this as an antiphonal store responses just imagine the folk on my work on left side just began to sing that and in the fall on the right side would say who is this King of glory and the folk on the less I would say the Lord strong and mighty the Lord mighty in battle Nebraska four on the right side with safe lift up your gates the doctor heads oh ye gates and let the monkey everlasting doors and the King of glory shall come in and these focal over here would say who is this King of glory and the others would say the Lord of hosts key is the King of glory and possess sound lifeless to you if you just use your imagination I may can you picture the scene who is this King of glory the Lord of hosts he is the King of glory from his this one a most marvelous victory on the cross this describing Colossians chapter due in military terms he disarmed all the principalities and powers in that chapter made a show of them only try answering over the minute I mean don't you think that there was some rejoice in their amen this passage is quoted two times in the spirit of prophecy that I know of some chapter twenty four percent and the tech it was first voted when David brought the ark back to Jerusalem to find that in the reference of their seven oh seven seven oh eight it was later quoted after Christ's ascension and desire of ages eight thirty three and it was alluded to in the book acts of the apostles on page thirty eight in connection with the inauguration of Christ in the outpouring of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost soul is mentioned into context David going to Jerusalem to bring up the ark and Jesus going up to heaven and saw a second segment chapter five verse twenty two to twenty five David won a great victory over the Philistines I mean and the Philistines came in mass this time and they wanted to squash the Israelites and David won a great victory over the Philistines who was the new David by the way I think it's Ezekiel who mentions the new David this Jesus now in second Samuel chapter six verse fifteen David and all of Israel accompanied the art to Jerusalem in a triumphant first session during which David leapt and best and by the way it is no record that I know of were men and women were dancing together and most of the kind of music we listen to would lend itself to that because it's so inundated with a lot with sexuality as that's the way is not but you can interject that into what they were doing back there so he leaned it says this is when they approach the city has David is approaching the city though the literal Jerusalem a just and proper seven oh seven this is a burst of song demanded of the watches upon the wall the dates of the holy city should be thrown open at this time Psalm twenty four for seven twenty four versus seven attend a song by a band of singers in an antipodal response seven oh eight pictures and profits and second Samuel six nineteen says this the service ended the king himself pronounce the benediction upon its people than with regal bounty he caused gifts of food and wine to be distributed further refreshment so David brings the art back to Jerusalem the joyous occasion that he sends out gifts to everyone else and that's mentioned the second same in chapter six verse nineteen as well now I want to switch gears to Jesus just like David Jesus won a great victory it's described in military terms and Colossians chapter two as he ascended the multitude of captive set free at his resurrection followed desire of ages eight thirty three says the heavenly host with shouts and acclamations of praise and celestial song attend the joyous train so just like David and his entourage were the literal Jerusalem Jesus is now ascending into heaven and he's got an entourage going with him as they draw near the holy city the escorting Angels along with the sentinels in the city saying the words of Psalm twenty four percent in the ten minutes of total response page eight thirty three eight thirty five of the desire Vegas is this than the portals of the city of God are opened wide and the angelic throng sweep through the gates limits the burst of rapturous music songs of triumph mingle with the music from the angel RS till heaven seems to overflow with joy and grace that doesn't sound too dull and boring to me what's the accompanying instrument again the heartbreak and again until the twentieth century I've never heard a heart accompanied by the backbeat but you know today anything 's possible when Christ passed within the heavenly gates he was enthroned amidst the adoration of the Angels as soon as the ceremony was completed the Holy Spirit descended upon the disciples of Christ and Christ was indeed glorified when David's ceremony was done he distributed gifts of food and wine when Christ was ultimately inaugurated in the heavenly sanctuary the Holy Spirit went out the Pentecostal outpouring was a miscommunication but the Redeemer 's inauguration was accomplished just as David gave gifts after the ark came to Jerusalem so Jesus sent the Holy Spirit the greatest gift the blesses waiting people now what are the implications of this the evidence strongly suggests that David's joyous dancing while accompanying the Arctic Jerusalem is a type or prophecy that finds its fulfillment in the resurrection and ascension of Jesus into the heavenly Jerusalem there are two important questions to consider when did the dancing in celebration of her and who was doing the celebrating it was after the military battle with the Philistines the David and all Israel tasks it was after Jesus victory over sin and Satan but the celebration began in heaven I don't know that there will be a revelation twelve percent to twelve Revelation chapter twelve were suspended twelve this is one of my favorite chapters because in seventeen short verses are condensed as a whole great controversy which began in heaven and which will culminate on the earth in just these seventeen versus and right here in the center is the greatest military victory that has ever been achieved and Jesus accomplished verse ten says and I heard what kind of voice you young folk you like that I heard a loud voice now this is not loud chaotic this harmonic like in revenue like a nexus chapter thirty two now there's two kinds allowed right and this is not that title out sources I heard a loud voice saying where in heaven now is come salvation and strength in the kingdom of our God and the power of his Christ for the accuser of our brethren is cast down which accused them before our God day and night he was cast down at the cross no longer any sympathy between the angelic host and the devil is a good try but he wasn't running any more sympathy from them they just saw him put Jesus to death on the cross he was cast down and in verse eleven says they overcame him that's the enemy they overcame the enemy by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony and they loved not their lives unto the death now notice what it says in verse twelve Bates is therefore rejoice who happens it says rejoice he happens and gave it well and then what about us keep reading Mrs. Wohl why to the inhabit her is of the earth and of the sea for the devil is come down unto you having great wrath because he know what that he hath but a short time I sent mean we all need to walk around saying in a wool was mean and was asked and I don't know what to do I is a defeated foe it simply means we need to be Honorable Mark were not quite there right now it says rejoice she happens now revelation twelve reminds me of the will of the amazing things of some of God 's people went through during the dark ages the Dragon persecuted God 's people God 's people had to flee into the wilderness and there are some of those people that willingly laid down their lives I had the privilege of the of well-being and for Polizzi in Italy in the foothills of the Alps just the summer and climbing Mount has to lose all or some of the dots people were led up to that mountain where the world where the people were for this soldiers were following them and finally was either it was either nonpoint board with a sword or you fall three thousand feet or so do your death MS exactly what there are other stories in the book brick controversies were some of the ladies were dressed in their in their own wedding garments as they are about to be executed that's the joy that God wants us to half that's that comes from principle that's so unlike the worship philosophies this almost are are are endorsing today worries if you don't tickle my fancy if you don't do it my way to hear these people would willingly laid down their lives what an amazing and they did so singing they did so with joy they died as conquerors so just because it says Walter the inhabitants of the earth and of the sleeve doesn't mean that we don't have to enjoy Paul in the managing prison writing even to the Philippians is rejoice in the Madison bots all he could I rejoice rejoice what this does mean is that we need to be on our bar because you can watch and pray and dance and play at the same time you can't do that you can only do one or the other so it's the ones who were in Jerusalem and on the way to Jerusalem that were really doing the celebrating that could let down there are no hard and really worship the Lord 's spirit and in truth unrestrained they didn't have to don't use in David's dancing as a justification for dance in the worship service Mrs. this typological implication regarding when and who is doing the celebrating dancing in the Temple service will the word car are for dances used only into instances referring to David's dancing but it's never used in connection with temple worship it was David himself who through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit declared that these of the instruments that are to be used I just shared with you in the previous seminar that is what it states through the rhythms with and that we experienced a lot of our motion and when it comes to movement when you explode that in all you really you really excluding nets so the art excluded those now let's look at the form of David's dancing this is an inspired commentary now the one question when is it time to dance the second question while if you don't do it party can and do it in a sense there's really no point even going near because is not a time to dance but let's answered anyway David's dancing and reverent joy before has been cited by pleasure lovers and justification of the fashionable modern dance but there is no ground for such an argument in our day was like one hundred years ago right in our day dancing is associated with folly and midnight revelry our day the music and dancing in joyful praise to God at the removal of the art I want to focus on very one important word had not the faintest and resemblance to the dissipation of modern dance that addresses the form that's why to me our wife is a theologian okay not just a devotional writer that you could read like in the morning like you would need a pop tart or something lashes of devotion or this is a Filipino you may not understand it but this is a highly philosophical statement and is given by one who recognizes the integration between theology and worship forms I don't know how God gave it to her but that is a philosophical statement when she says it didn't have the resemblance that the personal understands that the kind of dancing that they did at the Golden calf is not the kind of dancing that David is not the kind of dancing that Miriam did because certain forms only go on certain foundations there are other references the dance so if you want to justify this one aboard some of these Exodus thirty two verse nine of the golden calf we mentioned that Bill PR we mentioned that I want to concentrate on this one first things Chapter eighteen verse twenty six that's in the days of Elijah so God sent Elijah into the King and first things seventeenth he marched in their unannounced and he says there's nothing to be new nor rain but according to my work they went on out of there they chased him for a long time and finally after three and a half years he appeared to Ahab and he said we got to figure this thing out I okay with a figure this thing out I want you to take your profits on bail and meet me on Mount caramel and they did that is sold Ginger the lines he said you know this is what revenue year to build an altar to your God and I will build an altar to the Lord my God and the God that asses my fire let him be the true God I can only imagine those profits failed most than just shaking in their boots as they knew down deep inside that their religion was a farce they knew they couldn't put up and so they tried the best that they could all they made a valiant effort they erected there maybe I don't know what kind alters but adorned altars they got all that stuff together they were leaving they were dancing they were conning themselves and by the way some people think that if there's noise it's got to be the Holy Spirit as long as there's a lot of activity and noise that's when we know the Holy Spirit is there for this example tells me otherwise there were leaping and dancing there was a lot of activity there was a lot of hustle and bustle I will see no fire no fire whatsoever finally when they were through the Elijah said okay as my car and he erected the altar of God after three and a half years he erected that alter offered a simple word of prayer and before he could say in Jesus name fire came down there is a way that God works we can't just use any method and we can't say that leaping and dancing all this kind of music is associated with the Holy Spirit again if you've been going to church on Sunday could you got you want to spirit just been manipulated emotionally as all as happened when she walked away interpreting that is the Holy Spirit so God called Elijah after the end of three and a half years to erect the altar think about this for a minute there street half times in the book of Revelation God is called in Elijah movement to arrest the altar the sanctuary to lead people back to the true worship of God that's what he has called us to do there other negative references to dance like in Matthew fourteen verse six and Mark six verse twenty two when her earliest because John the Baptist preached that straight message and he said is not lawful for you to however the lady knew she could make an attack upon so she plotted and planned and steam and sought for a convenient occasion in which she could put her designed to work and she counseled her daughter the dance before the king while he was inebriated with his guests and after she was done until you it was breathtaking and the king said you know what I'll give you anything you want even up to the half of my kingdom and she says when she talks to her mother I want the head of John the Baptist right now and like one preacher said he should he gave her the upper half of the kingdom it on sorry I made a mistake in a you can have this half I'll give you the other half but the man had lost his moral courage he could look bad in front of the fellas you know you has no enemy now we all suffer pressure now not at all like what eldest he said the other day general youth conference in general youth horse and God is looking for general use conference generation of youth for Christ and leave it or not it takes a lot of moral Horace Christian but as you look at the cross and what Jesus went through what others went through was you keep your eyes focused there he will enable you to go through whatever he want you to go through and you will look back and say God that was the best experience so there are other negative references to dance one is a time to dance I do next did you know that there is unlimited there's an Elijah in the book of Revelation did you know there's a Jezebel in the book of Revelation Jezebel chat it does not make the same mistake because of my connections and get me on this one of the music seminar and I had Jezebel in my mind has again invited from Jezebel chapter due to my kids and never let me down on that and here is the four Gbytes image things that Revelation chapter two that's where you find this modern Jezebel she was a heathen queen rolling over God 's people you have a even great in the book of Revelation ruling over God 's people if you have any lives in Revelation chapter fourteen versus six the twelfth fear God and give glory to him for the hour of his judgment is come and worship him that made heaven and earth the sea in the fountains of waters cut out of Babylon and don't receive the Mark of the beast that stood out the modern-day Elijah that is discharged right here so type a logically speaking who should be doing the dancing and we should not be doing the nasty as the prophets of the Ellen Jezebel and her cohorts into the dancing is Elijah this is all this is the altar of God rise and measure the temple in the heavenly sanctuary that provides the proper integration between theology and doxology so not during the time of apostasy and for those of us that still believe this not on the day of atonement you don't find that they are either its ace Solomon season is not done on that day and were living in that time notice is very powerful statement from the book great controversy says the subject of the sanctuary and the investigative judgment should be clearly understood by the people of God all need a knowledge for themselves of two things the position and the work of their great high priest why is this so essential she says otherwise it will be impossible for them to exercise the faith which is essential at this time or to occupy the position which God designs them to fulfill so we need a knowledge of two things as I mentioned before God 's people sometimes been a day day day late and a dollar short Jesus has died on the cross the priest is still operating the useless sacrifices trying to gain access to the doctor that October twenty second eighteen forty four Jesus moved into the most holy place God 's people still stuck in the holy place is almost like the scribes and Pharisees would say what if we lived in that day we would do done that while he present truth is being mean and yet are we walking in it have we grappled with it have we realized the systematic implications scissors it will be impossible for them to exercise the faith or occupy the position which God designs them to fulfill our theme is for this purpose at UIC now interestingly enough after this statement in great controversy for eighty eight she says watch and pray three times and in the chapter ends watch and pray so friends this is clearly a time to watch and pray this is not a time to give sleeping or to get lazy in our Bible study or to lose our first love this is a time to be on our bar because the enemy of souls like a roaring lion is seeking a woman he may devour watching for a now one is dancing usually done after a major victory right did we not say that Jesus death on the cross was stated in military terms and Colossians chapter two is there a victory greater than that novel but we're not at that time right now so when we bring in a celebratory worship service were we can do anything we want our attention is not being focused upward Jesus is right now but it's being focused on a past event which is disassociated from what he is doing up there okay were celebrating like one of my professor says the false view of the atonement that's what were doing we've got to get it in our minds that are forms of worship are intimately connected with our ideas of God and the plan of salvation and when we one would normally partake of certain worship forms that are not according to the biblical constraints then all of a sudden things are reinterpreted so when we bring in the praise dancing and all kind of stuff we are focusing exclusively on the cross now don't misunderstand me on this we can't let the crossfire enough but our theological understanding of the cross does not only come from the process it comes from the integration of the process in the day of atonement together because what Jesus is doing now in the most holy place of the heavenly sanctuary is just as the social is what he did on the cross and has no surprise to me when pastors of celebration churches have trouble with the investigative judgment there's no big mystery because there intertwines worship forms in theology and philosophy and down and salvation are all intertwined so when you introduce this what you doing is what the same thing that a has been it's the same thing that Jeroboam did turning your back on the sanctuary and focusing somewhere else building your altar in a place where it's not connected with the sanctuary here establishing -year-old altar on the basis of your own authority on the basis of your own culture disconnected from the plan of salvation the way God has given it that's what happens doing this will place us in the same position as the Jews in the popular churches in eighteen forty three in eighteen forty four friends the light marches off Jesus says walk while you have the light lest darkness come upon you and if we are not following where he is if we're so we were so focused on what he is gone and in Antarctica false interpretation of what he is not the like will march on in the Holy Spirit will be poured out and we will not interpreted correctly dancing during the time of war can bring disastrous results the term with me back to this passage in verse and chapter thirty first sixteen eighteen as I said the Amalekites the of the Amalekites had thought that they had gained the victory but all I found there was the women and the children all the men of war were elsewhere and finally Windows metaphor can I saw the city level than the women and children gone the men who met most of the stores and other ridiculed David McDavid encouraged himself in the Lord is one of Mayfield anybody who thinks that they gone too far it was David's own compromise that led them to go into the Philistines it was that that set in motion this train of circumstances in many ways it was his responsibility and was his fault but he did not give and depression he did not give in to discouragement and neither should you or should I instead he encouraged himself in the Lord suffer no matter what you've done no matter how far you fall and encourage yourself in the long and move on anything and he asked for the high priest and he said via Britney Beerman and the these and you know what if we if we pursue this troop shall we overtake them yes you will surely overtake them so they finally get the reverse sixteen and of course all these uneven Amalekites their thinking is not that there's not anybody within a hundred miles of the place and so what are they doing there eating drinking dancing their guard is now verse seventeen David smote them from the twilight even under the evening of the next day and their escape not a man of them except four hundred young men which wrote upon camels and flat and fled and David recovered all the Amalekites had carried away and David rescued his two wives amazing why because they were in dance and play board they should of been and watched him for a mold and because they were not in watch him for a mold David came in like an avalanche and paying they were done did you know that the book of Revelation is all about the great controversy in the war that is going on it's all about that friends wherein the missile bottle we are in the midst of a war and we cannot leave the armor down right now we must press on for a little bit longer we must watch and pray for a little bit longer we can get sleepy when God wants to show us a great revelation is so much more to show us that the book of Revelation is all about this war and were not through with that yet your mug on Greek sort untold story of the Trojan horse they fought for years the Greeks and most Trojans and they couldn't get anywhere and I guess the Greeks being a little smarter use strategies in of those Moroccan win this war this is the idea so they got that Trojan horse a built-in they stuck their men and their enlisted a funeral peace offer and you guys we all you made good fight we made a good fight delicious culture as well as handles dome Trojans brought the horse into the city and what you think they probably did they let down their guard José never thought anything without it they were convinced that the Bible was over and so when the battles over what you do is celebrate and when the celebration was done in the fellows inside the horses pay this is a good time they came in and that was it how can the devil achieve victory over the remnant introduce Christian rock praise dancing since dancing is not after a major battle the subtle message that is being preached by instituting in the church service is that the war between Babylon and Israel is over no longer any conflict the war between Babylon is due in Israel is over this set of watch and pray this dance and play and the enemy like all roaring lion 's coaching in the grass camouflage so that you can't see him ready the house at our weakest moment that's how we can achieve it friends that's why oh why says that it would be impossible for us to occupy the position that God designs us to fulfill unless we understand the position and work of our great high priest we must focus on where Jesus is that we must see the proper integration between theology philosophy and worship forms and order our worship forms in such a way that's what we must do is make a little bit of an evaluation I picking on rock because it's very broad and it's very universal rock communicates a pantheistic and postmodern world view pantheism is the belief that there is there was no distinction between the creation and God God is confused with the creation we already discovered that when we turn our backs on the sanctuary the musical forms come from what we see our concepts of God come from the false interpretation of creation like Greek philosophy so it communicates pantheist and it communicates a postmodern worldview there is no heavenly sanctuary there is no transcendent God that is out there know he is confused with the creation therefore there is no distinction between the holy and the unholy are you following that train of thought that's the whole basis of the emerging church movement is not just the movement to tickle people 's fancy and try something new and innovative know it is a highly philosophical statement when they say there's noticed is holy and unholy that's because God is in everything insult him God is in everything how can something then be not only whatever is is holding and can be used we rarely think of the philosophical theological implications of there is no room for the Bible here there is no room for the objectivity of the ten Commandments there is no room for a God that is out there in the heavenly sanctuary Aniston worship forms that are connected with that rock has a negative effect on our physiology making it harder to maintain self-control and if our young people are having enough of a problem maintaining the great hormonal changes that are going on in their system we don't need to pour gasoline on the fire they communicate sex and drugs and the occult the drum set right here this is why I bring one off again there is a difference between the drum set and percussion there is nothing objectionable about this per se okay or if I was to take all oh and we can do this is nothing objectionable about about this okay nothing intrinsically wrong with that that's not a drum set the RA and that's why I footed they are so that you can see that this is the way of our rock jazz drummer plays all right so but that is not a drum set and is nothing intrinsically wrong with it as long as the music you're playing is sought is the thought influenced my melody and harmony is this the primary nonmusical characteristics the drum set is used solely to power the music of jazz and rock in the related hydrants sit right here now some people say well maybe even played a little differently you can't you will not find me one recording public drum set being used in such a way that cannot be filtered down to Robert Jess if you do he's not playing a drum set and if he is he's not you can conclude that he is faced on what you're listening to my teachers told me to rhythms that's all rock jazz and the related hybrids a pig is a big you can fume that you install you want still a big nothing wrong with this this is not a pig okay this is not a big this is not a big all right Mister this is not a pink this is a page okay I don't it is not clear is that then you do understand okay nothing wrong with this for this when you played like this rock jazz that's all you got started on the drums that is use the music is good the rock or just okay what the issue is not the issue is not the role of emotions and feelings and worship okay this is not in a like when I was in the Vatican or the end of the Catholic cathedrals we have the Gregorian chant and you gave strictly monophonic and you know you can't you can't you can sing in harmony you were talking about our Spartan musical diet here or there is no weather is no motion of incoming God created all these other foods to enjoy and now you tell me all I got is bread water no it should speed to the emotions okay but part of that is our own issue in our own problem well we must allow the Holy Spirit to change us and convert us before we can like and only give you to get candy and junk food all the time and you put before limited Olson in all an apple or something or even criminal for children over the junk food because that's what the venues that he was same principle applies with music as well so if you don't find some of it advertising it may not necessarily be the music so the issue is not the role of emotions and feelings and worship the issue is not having a spirit filled worship service interpreted correctly the issue is not allowing for differences that arise from our culture wants one zero in on the principles I got not just some examples of elements and again my wife saw uncle three-time champion choral conductor in the Philippines he had a group of the last general conference session to the one before they were playing the envelope you guys shake it like this so there was thirty of them about the native musical instrument and so they've constructed it in a way that they can play it and having a high degree of mother characteristics of melody and harmony or from the Caribbean you have the dead that the steel drums of the kettle drums and they can be played in a way without his primary as well so is that making sense soul were not overturning all the cultures in saying he got out of Jana learn Oregon and by the way you know many people say while they fought the organ was bad back then let me tell you why they thought it was that it was the same Platonic Greek philosophy that only allowed for Gregorian chant and so they organ them was using all these other contexts but there's nothing wrong with that intrinsically it can be used later melody and harmony can be used as well as other kinds of music the reason what had a problem with it is because the charts wanted this at the time but the church was building on not the sanctuary for loss you are building on my philosophical structure is a slight problem with it so the organ argument is a weak one the issue is not having a beautiful worship service the issue is not being practical in the choices of music that we use one is the issue it's realizing that the styles of worship we use affect the beliefs we have about God 's salvation and Christian experience and are therefore doctrinal that is an issue the issue is not making feelings and emotions the foundation of our doctrine of worship the issue is not making culture the foundation of our doctrine worship the issue is not making a doctrine of worship based on our own concepts of what's beautiful by the way if you look at the word beauty and the Bible fixes worship the Lord in the beauty of holiness sanctuary setting so our beauty are concepts of beauty and as and anesthetics should be philosophically linked to that and we spent some time talking about the fact that these things are all integrated just another story when I was going when I was not taking music history at York University we would always study the philosophy of the date first music history class we would study philosophy in on beating my head against the wall thing what's that got to do with music only now have a begin begun to understood to understand that whatever rules the heart forms the art of you ever wondered what 20th-century music is in the twentieth century and not in the fourteenth and fifteenth century why did they do that were smart enough not the philosophy did not exist back then when you listen the twentieth century music it defies all the musical rules why because there are no rules anymore painting farmers have the rise of postmodern philosophy it was after that and then later on that you have 20th-century music not before as if you were to do it before they would say you know Brazil the local beer known peanut understanding thinks but in the twentieth century makes for success why because the philosophical groundwork started in late the issue is not using the needs of the people to form the foundation of our doctrine worship Jeroboam said you know it's too much for you to go to Jerusalem to cost you too much longer to set up one worship center and then in the other industrial the Bible said that was a sin so not using the needs of the people to form the foundation of our doctrine worship a final appeal music and end time deception over the clock is ticking Daniel chapter three you're all familiar with it the ecumenical movement has failed on the basis of doctrinal unity the churches will never unite doctrinally Protestants and Catholics Protestants will still have a problem with Mary Bill still have a problem with prayers of intercession of the saints that's that's always good to be an issue but friends music is doing more to unite them than anything else and this is where I have a concern because at times in our universities we are using the worship experience to try to unite us and were doing it by using forms of worship that are engaged with the Bible says and that is not going to bring this unity what is going to bring this unity is the word in John chapter seven seventeen or John or Jesus said that they all might be wanted it was the work that was the basis of the unity and so you got all these events you know with all this kind of music and music is powerful people sat in your moral your morals and your logic goes out the window in a big crowd like that and when those musicians ask you to do something you'll do it and that takes a lot of courage to stand up against the crowd in that kind of environment but that's where this thing is having the music is conditioning costs to receive the mark of the beast that's what it is because in our minds as we listen to say we're really not so far apart theologically with all the rest of the folk when the fact is were miles apart the things you describe is taking place in the animal or to show me with a place just before the close of probation every uncouth thing will be demonstrated it will be shouting with drums music and dancing the senses of rational beings will become so confused they cannot be trusted to make right decisions and this is called the moving of the Holy Spirit no encouragement should be given to this kind of worship those things which have been in the past will be in the future were seeing it Satan will make music is there by the way in which it is conducted in me just say one thing about that again this can only be played one way so that passage doesn't apply to this it applies to this good life for the channel it applies to the guitar to bless others the next but again if you're playing at the way was designed to be played and you'll never bring me a recording that says otherwise that's what you got there but with all other instruments guide depends on hot post but I'm not in use the Jana why can't others can use the plan ultimately the way God wants them to or they can play other forms of music just like Ezra Nehemiah we are called to be the repairs of the breach we are given the duty of rebuilding the walls rebuilding the Temple and this involved even in Nehemiah 's day in obedience to the commandments of God my form was twenty seven they reared the evening he was the estimates that David has set up friends let's use the estimates of David let's use the estimates that have the characteristics of melody and harmony the stringed instruments would not cover up the voice of the word of God which was being sung and friends when Roman drives the music you'll find many people think they can you know unless there intimately acquainted with the song that also what you say again for the same reason over the harp is mentioned as an accompanying instrument of the book of Revelation and God doesn't do things in an arbitrary manner so we need a Reformation in music I wanted to briefly go over these these characteristics of the churches put out you can find this in the great controversy .org booth okay and you need to have this musical characteristics I need to run through this book because the Marty over it should bring glory to God and assist us in acceptably worshiping issue noble uplift and purify the Christian slots it should have a text which is in harmony with the scriptural teachings of the church it should reveal a compatibility between the message conveyed by the words and the music avoiding the mingling of the sacred and the profane we should shun theatrical and prideful display it should give precedence to the message of the text which should not be overpowered by the accompanying musical instruments it should maintain a judicious balance of the emotional intellectual and spiritual elements it should never compromise high principles of dignity and excellence in efforts to reach people just where they are it should be appropriate for the occasion the siding and the audience for which it is intended this is in the Church manual again but you know if something is really not theologically grounded no one to listen to it total avoidance of rock and jazz were send a related harvest us in the Church manual the raucous style common to rock the suggested sentimental roughly crooning style of the nightclub performer and other distortions of the human voice should be avoided music should be avoided that is saturated that's the key word there saturated with seventh ninth eleventh and thirteenth courts as well as other lush sonorities usually find that they most just but this is what it says is well these courts when used with restraint produce beauty but when used to access distract from the true spiritual quality of the text are right this pilot having as much salt as food I had overdid that one and the end result is the message is not conveyed anything which calls on due attention to the performer such as excessive affect affected bodily movement or inappropriate gestures final place in witnessing great care should be exercised to avoid excessive instrumental and vocal application when amplifying music there should be a sensitivity to the spiritual needs of those given the witness and of those who are to receive it the primary objective of all sacred music should be to exalt Christ rather than to exalt the musician or to provide entertainment while thank you for listening may the Lord bless each and everyone of us as we seek to make decisions for him and I just want to challenge you when you go home I want challenges as a church and what challenges of our institutions to see what we can do to move this thing in the right erection amen let's pray heavenly father thank you Lord for your part of the privilege of being here thank you for G Y C may be with every person that is here every person that will be listening may you give us the wisdom the tact and the ability to carry forth this revival in Reformation always hope Jesus comes pray Jesus Aurora in her room this is my audio viruses seem like a generation of advice you would like to learn more about you might think this is Dubya and done life that God is working like this is an online seminar please visit www. volume versus nonwork

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