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3. Jesus and Proverbs 8

Glyn Parfitt
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For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. (Isaiah 9: 6)



  • November 30, 2016
    7:00 PM


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You Father I pray that you will I open your word to us to die that your spirit will speak to us and guide us as we study that we might be thinking of the which I have to you I pray Jesus night for me. Now. As I mentioned last night. Now attitude that humility is a private in any study like this. We read in the book of eyes are. For under us a child is born unto us a son is given and the government shall be upon his shoulder and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor. The mighty God the Everlasting Father the principal use we looked at that before. He had Jesus a child who was to be born is called the everlasting Father. Not that he was God the Father but the Jesus before his birth in Bethlehem was a father to his rival. It was Jesus who taught us that his father will was also Alpha. And so he taught us to pry now father who out in heaven. And he told us that the Father Himself love with you. But returning to FS takes Jesus is described as the everlasting Father. As we saw earlier to die this is one of a number of verses where we are told that Jesus existed eternally before he came to this if. It were there are some who claim that Jesus existed and was not eternal in the past there was a time nice I when he kind into existence in the principle verses that I rely on to prove this idea of founding Proverbs I. And so we will examine this passion is to die. It says The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his why before his works of ours. I was set up from everlasting from the beginning though ever the earth was. When there were no depths I was brought forth when there were no i have fountains abandon with water. Before the mountains were settled before the hills was I brought full notice that this passage says. When there were no depths I was brought forth and before the hills I was brought before. They were there is a claim that this passage is a prophecy about Jesus and how he came into existence is this true. We need to not. We will begin by noting that we never we examined any piece of writing we must first of all determine what sort of writing it is. Is it in English as I. Is it a scientific publication is it power tree is it price. Is it a text or telegram. Or tweet. Or is it a parable. In the way we understand any piece of writing will be affected by the kind of literature it is. For instance Jesus told the parable of the Good Samaritan. And then said to the lawyer here I asked him he was my night. He said Go and do the law cause. Why did Jesus mean by this did he mean that he should spend his time walking up and down the Jericho ride with a donkey in tab. That he can pick up wounded travelers of course not. How do we know. It was a parable. Now if I were to quote you the following words. I. Wanted to learn me is a cloud that floats on ha vials and hills where no not once I saw a crowd a host of golden deafened us. What sort of literature is that. It is poetry isn't it how do we know. It rhymes play out rhymes with crowd and hills rhymes with def a delicious. And it has a regular rhythm. It also has something else that poetry often has you know what that is. It has personification What is that. It is trading non-personal things as if they were actual persons. In our power. Play out just said to be lonely. I Pads and i mean. I. Knew a few years in personification of. The Bible also uses personification and we need to realize that. The first piece of personification which used by God Himself. You remember that God said to kind the voice of the My Brother's Blood cry at out cry it out to me from the ground of. The earth have I been to man to be saved I rather brother's blood from my hand three pieces of piss on vacation they had. I was blood had a voice cried out. And the earth had a mouth. Which I happened to receive the blood of Abel. But there are longer pieces of percent of the caution in the. In Judges we read the following story. The trees when fought on a time to annoying to King over them and I said unto the olive tree right that why the US. But the olive tree said unto them should I leave my fattest way with. I on a God and man with by may thy honor God and man and God to be promoted over the trees. And the trees said unto the victory come down and write I rouse. But the fig tree said unto them. Should I forsake my sweetness and my good friend in God to be promoted I think the trees. Then said the trees on to the vine come down right now grass and the Vine said unto them should I leave my wine which she read Gone in man and got to be promoted over the trees. Then said all the trees under the bramble. Come down run Iver us and the Bramble said under the trees if in truth you are new and making of you then come and put your trust in my shadow and if not let Fox come out of the bramble and devour the Cedars of Lebanon. The meaning of this parable need not concern us now or when you can read the context for yourself in Judges nine. Epis to die is merely to show that some people like to use personification or extended personification to get a point across. Soul A man was one such person. Is called the wisest man who ever lived by from Jesus of course. And he like to personify wisdom as we will now see in the Book of Proverbs. Wisdom cry at with that so. Outer Earth her voice in the streets she cries in the chief places of Concourse in the up in News of the gite in the city she outer of her words sighing and goes on. Hear wisdom is personified as a famous person calling out to anyone who will hear. The personification is here indicated by the use of the words she and her. She calls out in the streets and in any place where people gather at the passage continues by recording her words. How long the simple ones how long will you love simplicity and the scorners delight in this going in fool's hight knowledge turn you at my reproof behold our pour out my Spirit unto you all my nine my words unto you because I have called in your repute I have stretched out my hand and no man regarded that you have said it nor at all my counsel and would not have moderate proof and so it continues to the end of the chapter. For the next couple of chapters Solomon continued to talk about wisdom but largely without personification For instance he said for the Lord giveth wisdom out of his mouth come at the knowledge and understanding. Happy is the man the find of wisdom. THE MAN THE GOOD at the understanding. Wisdom is personified again in chapter three verses fifteen to eighteen she is more precious than rubies and all the things they are kinds do not desire not to be compared under her link them dies is in her hand and in her left hand reaches a. Nona. Her wise and wise and pleasantness and all of her paths of peace. She is a tree of life to then lie how to pond her and happy is everyone that retain at that. Then we have a section without personification we find such type and says the Lord by wisdom have found the Earth by understanding had he established the heavens and. The wise shall inherit glory that shine shall be the promotion of photos. And a small amount of the son of a caution returns in the next chapter. Get wisdom get understanding the get it not neither to climb from the words of my mouth or forsake not and she show preserve the love her and she show Katie wisdom is the principal thing they forget wisdom and with all thy getting get understanding exalt her and she shall from out the she is John give bring the to Ana when the outlasting Bryce said. She shall give to the I had an ornament of Grice a crown of glory show she delivered to the. Proverbs continues largely without personification right through into Chapter seven in this section we find such verses as I have taught the in the why of wisdom I have led the in right paths. But the path of the just is as a shining light that shone with more and more into the perfect guy. For that commandment is a lamp and the lore is light and the reproofs of instruction on the why of lightness and probably six when suddenly we have this amazing piece of the son of a caution so I under wisdom that out my sis. And core understanding by kinswoman. Or is it says in the English standard version so I under wisdom you are my sister and inside your intimate friend. The rest of the chapter continues with that personification describing in literal day tile the pole of a thoroughly should man whose wisdom has departed him. In chapter I the son of a cation is resumed with these words. Dr not wisdom cry and understanding put forth her voice she standeth in the top of high prices by the why in the place of the pass she cry out that the guy pass at the entry of the city at the opening in of the doors. This is reminiscent of the why that the percent of the cation began in chapter one and now it continues through our problems itin much of Proverbs nine. It is the longest piece of sustained because son of a caution in the whole of the Bible and maybe in the whole of the English literature. In this passage we find such statements as received mind struction and not sober and knowledge rather than choice God but wisdom is better than rubies and all the things that might be desired and not to be compared to it and Blizzard is the man that here with me watching Dolly at my guides writing at the post of my doors for his I find at the may find a through life. And Shelob time five of the Lord. The personification ends with the following words this is improv It is nine. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom and the knowledge of the holy is understanding but by me die I die it shall be multiplied and the years of I live just be increased. The high point in this extended passage of personification is a long section where wisdom is speaking and the woods are recorded in the first person that is wisdom calls his self I and me. This passage begins it probably verse four and is introduced as follows. Death and wisdom cry and understanding put for voice. And to you a man I call and my voice is to the sons of men I.E. simple understand wisdom and you fills be of an understanding hide here for I will speak of excellent things and the eye opening of my lips shall be right things. In the middle of this long section where wisdom is speaking and calling herself I and me we have the passengers that began airing quietly to die. We were now to look at this in a bit more detail. The lead up to this section is worth noting it says. Counsel is mine and sound wisdom I am understanding I have strength by me Kings Rhine and princes to create jet decreed justice by me princes rule and Nobles even all the judges of the earth. I love them that love me and those that seek we Early Show find me. Riches and on. With me yeah i durable riches and righteousness. My fruit is better than God Yeah I can find God and my revenue than choice so vote. I lead in the why of righteousness in the midst of the paths of judgement that I might cause those that love me to inherit substance and I will fill their traces. Then without a bright wisdom personified begins talking bad have a relationship with God. The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his reply before his works of God. I. Was set up from everlasting from the beginning or ever the earth was. Then wisdom speaks as if you were born at that time. When there were no depths of is brought forth. When they were not found into bounding with water. Before the mountains were settled before the hills was I brought forth. While as yet he had not made the earth nor the fields no the highest power of dust in the world. Wisdom then speaks of being present with God as he help at the creation of the world. When he prepared the heavens I was there. When he said a compass fight upon the face of the depths. When he established the clouds about when he strengthen the fountains of the deep when he gave to the sea his decree that the waters should not pass his commandment when he appointed the foundations of the earth. Then I was by him as one brought up with him I was dying his delight. Rejoicing all eyes before him. Rejoicing in the habitable part habitable pot of the earth and my delights were with the sons of men. Because wisdom is being with God from all eternity and was closely associated with him in the work of creation she is well qualified to give us instruction now and she continues now therefore Aachen and to me are you Joan and for Bless and by that keep my wise here instruction be wise and refuse it not lace it is the man that here with me watching Dolly at my guys writing at the prices of my doors. This house section is clearly a piss on a vacation of wisdom and with this a great a vast majority of conservative commentators and evangelical scholars to diaper for instance the expose of his Bible commentary says a Proverbs ita. Wisdom On the other hand cannot be presented as an actual person but irony as I personification. And all but Bond says wisdom is personified in the Hebrew the noun is a feminine pearled as though this wisdom with the queen of all wisdoms uniting in herself or the excellences she lifts up a voice not in solitude but in the haunts of men without that is outside the walls in the streets at the highest point of all places of concourse and the up and spice of the guides with the elders made and the King sits in judgment. And of the brought forth passages he says I will toward his great deeps lying in Doc ness this was the picture there. Now disk time of which man can form any conception and yet the cow existence of the uncreated wisdom with the turn Oh yeah I was before that. Adam clack cause it. Piloting personification. I was brought before her Laddie. I was produced as by library laboring thrivers Mr Pack has thinks that the heathen poets derive their idea of Minerva's that is wisdom is being born of Jupiter's brine and some such high power waiting personification as that in the text. Yet there are some who see this passage not as personification but in speaking directly of Christ and seven according to them Christ was brought forth. We will now see that their reasons do not hold water. It is climbed that several New Testament verses applied these private verses to Jesus Chief among these verses is first Corinthians one twenty four he opposes. Under them which are called by Jews ingrates Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. Here Christ is called The Wisdom of God. Is this a reference to wisdom in Proverbs eiter. The context shows that it is not the previous verse says but we preach Christ crucified under the Jews a stumbling block and unto the grapes fully snus. The idea that salvation through a crucified Hriday man was out of thoroughly sinister to the greats and so it is to many to die. I. A UNIVERSITY LECTURER referring to the crucifixion of Jesus once said to me God was playing guy. But in reality the crucifixion of Jesus is our substitute is the most amazing demonstration of the wisdom of God that could ever be given. This is what Paul is referring to by calling Christ the wisdom of God in First Corinthians one twenty four it is not a reference to Proverbs ite. Likewise John one hundred three is cited as an allusion to Proverbs ite your now Herod guys in the beginning was the Word and the Word was WITH God and the Word was God The sign was in the beginning with God all things are made and by Him and without Him was not anything my that was my. Christ was there with God at the time of creation and did the work of creation wisdom is also there at that time by him and say's there is no illusion here we're told it is merely an illusion the figment of some people's imagination the same is true of the next passage sided collections one sixteen from by him will all things created that are in heaven and that are in a visible and invisible whether that be Thrones or dominions or principalities or pass all things were created by him and for him. Again there is no illusion he had a prototype. It is always to claim that some of wisdom statements sound like God speaking such statements as the theory of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom in the knowledge of the holy is understanding. And because I have. Hold in your repairs I've stretched out my hand a number nine man regarded that you have said it nor to my counsel and would be none of my reproof. Why shouldn't wisdom sound like God speaking. This is not any kind of wisdom it is God's wisdom. As it says in Proverbs two six for the Lord giveth wisdom out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding. Now wonder wisdom at times sounds like God Himself speaking but it is not a Bice's for directing the passage to Christ. We might therefore safely conclude that proverbs is a personification of wisdom that is not a direct reference to Christ. A way that this does not prevent us miking a secondary application of the passage to Christ as many have done. But as with all secondary applications not every day tile all of the passage applies. Thus the highly figurative stipends a bat wisdom being brought before cannot be used as proof that Christ was in any sense born at this time. These stipends simply do not apply to Christ at all. Now it is instructive to note have in white uses this passage in reference to Christ. In part Jackson prophets she said. And the son of God declares concerning himself. The Lord position me in the beginning of his Y before his works about he's quoting probably I I was set up from everlasting and then there is for dots which in a kite and a mission. When he appointed the pound I sions of the earth then I was by him there's one brought up with him and I was dying his delight rejoicing or wise before him. But did you notice something that brought forth passages are not there Ellen White has intentionally left them out. There out to other places where Ellen what quotes proverbs ict in reference to Christ. In these two places she included the brought forth passages that assures us of Jesus' eternal existence but before and after quoting Proverbs I notice how she does it. That would exist as she says as a divine being even the eternal Son of God in union and oneness with the father from everlasting he was the mediator of the covenant the one in whom all nations of the earth by the Jews and Gentiles if they accepted him were to be blessed. The Word was WITH God and the Word was God. Before man all I knew was were created the Word was WITH God and was God. The world was made by him and without Him was not anything my that was my. If Christ made all things He existed before all things. The word spoken in regard to this is so decisive that when no one may be left in day at. Night when need be left in DAD Christ was God essentially and in the highest. Since he was with God from zero eight Turnitin God ever all blessed forever more. The Lord Jesus Christ the divine Son of God existed from eternity a distinct person yet one with the father he was this a passing glory of Heaven he was a commander of the heavenly intelligences and the adoring homage of the EIN Jews were received by him as he's right this was no robbery of God. She then quotes proverbs items including the brought forth passages and then continues. There are lighting glory in the truth that Christ was one with the Father before the foundation of the world was a lie. This is the light shining into Doc place making it resplendent with divine original glory this truth infinitely mysterious in itself explains other mysteries and otherwise unexplainable trues while it is enshrouding in light unapproachable and in comprehensible. Before the mountains were brought forth or ever there has formed the earth and the world even from everlasting to everlasting them out God of. The people which sat in darkness or great light and to them which sat in the region in Shadow of Death. The light is sprung up here at the preexistence of Christ and the purpose of these manifestation to our world are Brazil and it is living beams of light from the eternal right. Here she Stites concerning Christ that He is the eternal Son. God. From everlasting he was the media of the covenant. He was God essentially and in the highest sense he was with God from all eternity. A distinct person yet one with the Fatah. What marvelous statements concerning the eternity of Jesus yet there is more after quoting proverbs itinerate repurpose to the preexistence of Jesus by quoting the one passage which we like to ever say Shiite with the turn a day of God more than any other from everlasting to everlasting. God. What an amazing statement to apply to Jesus. In the final passage. Where what applies proverbs to Christ she does the same kind of thing she says before I ever Ham was I am. Christ is the self is the preexistent self existant Son of God. The message he guy have to measure is to give to the children of Israel I was that sack under the Children of Israel I am had sent me on to you. The prophet Micah writes of him but there Bethlehem efforts that have been little among the thousands of euro yet out of the show he come forth on to me that is to be rid of. His going school with had been from about from the the lasting. Three Solomon Christ declared and she then quotes proverbs ite including the brought forth passages and then continues. In speaking of his preexistence Christ carries the mind back through this I juss he assures us that there never was a time when he was not. Close fellowship with the eternal God hater whose voice the Jews then listening had been with God as one brought up with him. Just as in the previous example Ellen what surrounds the brought forth statements. With this juror and says of the eternity of Jesus he begins by quoting the two mind past passages I used to prove the ten day abuse it Biblically before I bring hammers I am in John Knight fifty which he links with the story Moses at the burning bush and Micah five two concerning the birth of Jesus is going spoke with the brain from the out when they have a lasting. Then after quoting proverbs she says here shows us that there never was a time when he was not in close fellowship with the turn Oh God. What more definite statement could you get than that. There is that's no biblical ground nor is there Spirit of Prophecy grand for thing in that program site refers to Jesus having a beginning he does not is being there eternally with the father. Price is wonderful. This media was brought to you by audio first a website dedicated to spreading God's word through free sermon audio and much more if you would like to know more about audio for years if you would like to listen to more sermon lead to visit W W W audio verse or.


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