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Soil Tests: What They are Saying

Whitmar McConnell
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This class will use illustrations to explain what you are being told and what you should be told. 

Presenter

Whitmar McConnell

Owns and operates Golden Moment Farm in Means, KY

Recorded

  • January 19, 2018
    10:45 AM

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Father in heaven once again we just want to know how to increase life we want to know how to reflect your character we want to reflect your image in life as a witness and we just pray that anything that we can learn to help us to do that you would give us the eyes and ears to see and hear in Jesus' name. OK I forgot on the previous one how somebody can but I think pretty much the same people are in here and I think we changed too much so if I could ask somebody one of you to volunteer to count how many people are in the class and put it down there I appreciate it thank you. OK so what we need to do is what I'm going to do here is we're going to look at a few different report so reports and look at how they represent the information I could. Some labs won't let you have a say I don't have one because I don't work with them and they won't give you a sample. Report some of them have gone only to working with consultants they don't work with individual farmers or other individuals at all they only will do the lab reports lab tests for. Consultants so you can't you can't get them unless you're actually. Signed up with them as a consultant so it will work with the ones that I have There's actually one I just realize it didn't have up enough if I can find it quick enough I'll put up there that I want to deal straight. A C E C That's not a T.C.. But this this is a sample lab report from Logan labs ever heard of Logan labs before. A lot of people use this lab is this based on all right modeling this is probably the closest. If I could say that I'm elected to save is probably comes the closest. To the model of any lab that does not run. The right analytical methods. OK You'll see when you get down to the trace elements it goes off you wish you wouldn't know that because you're not familiar with those numbers but. I said it is particularly the trace elements where it's. It's very different so what you'll typically see on a social report is that you know the have the location this is identifying so that the grower knows well they wish which sample is this which lab report is for the sample is just ill tell you location us ample ID and there's sometimes will be a lab number on there that's for the benefit of the lab and for you to know you know what's what with this what what are these numbers coming from. Some labs like Logan will put on their sample depth and inches I'll just mention here they have six inches there most labs base their analytical method their analytics and their interpretive math is on about a six and a half to seven inch plow layer that's about two million pounds of soil in general not always if you can go out West where there's higher mineralisation into maybe two point two million pounds in a plowed layer because it's just heavier there's a lot more metals in it because of the mineral elements there doesn't mean it's balanced and you can have some places where very deficient in mineral elements that are highly weathered and they can actually be you know a little bit less but in general it's two million pounds and devaluation here for most people is not a significant factor until you've done a whole lot of other things and T.V. addressed a whole lot of other things that if you want to refine it down a little bit and figure out what your bulk density. Your soil is and then have whoever you're working with if it's you yourself or if it you're working with somebody to help you know what to do you can tweak that just a little bit to get a little more little more refinement and honing in on on the. You know a more refined application. You normally when you're taking a sample you want to take it from the depth of your probes or if you use a like a trial or something to take slices you want to take about a six and a half consistently take a six and a half to seven inch. Core. Because that's going to represent a so that you're going to fertilize because this sumption is you're going to till it in. OK if you're let's say you're taking a sample in a fruit orchard and you're not going to till the fruit orchard you would only want to take about a four inch depth. The reason for that is because you're an applied on the surface and if you took one to a six inch death and then you you apply that amount material you would have a lot more concentration up there on the surface and you really want because remember that's where most of the eroded activity is happening up into top two three inches if you put enough amendments on there to address six they have to seven inches then it's going to can be too concentrated and it can cause problems for you so if you're not going to disturb the soil it's best to do a four inch depth if you're going to be working to so then six seven inch you've probably heard. Some of you may have heard of Bob Gregory does a twelve inch deep sample. OK Now what's important is not necessarily see the lab is not going to know whether you've pulled a foreign sample or you pulled a six and a half and sampler a ten and sample or an eight hundred sample they're not going to know. So if you were to pull a twelve inch sample you need to be sure that you're capable of incorporating that material to about six to eight inches. So that year of youth because when you're taking a twelve inch sample you're taking you're measuring twelve inches of soil volume you're not at two million pounds anymore you're you're now at you know close to three and a half four million pounds of soil and so if you take that one you apply it up on the top two to three inches or even three or four inches it's going to be quite a bit more concentrated than you really wanted to be so you can take a soil sample I mean there are growers that take a sample down to six inches then they take the next six inches and they take the next inches it's a lot of nut growers and everything they'll take samples always down to twenty four inches they want to know what's everywhere. Because they want to know what they may be able to tap to it's not necessary that they're going to apply anything to that depth but they want to know what they might be able to get from that part of the soil what their trees playing to possibly get from it so it's all about you know making sure that whatever depth it is that you take. You're able to incorporate that material so that it's going to be incorporated into the majority of that area and not just up and then on the very surface of it so if you're not telling you're so oil what depth are you going to take about four inches you're going to be applying it to the surface. OK So there's a little almost also all tests there are some labs that do not run Exchange this at Logan have as a call a total exchange capacity the M.E. just measure means Millie acquittal insists that is the way they measure it so unit of measure so don't unless you're just really going to be into this and you want to find out then that that's all that means a million of them says the unit of measure that how they are representing it so they call it total exchange capacity there are labs that do not. Run cattle an exchange is the basis for their analysis international ag labs is anybody from A with international ag labs anybody that follows the reams and reams approach international ag labs normally does not run cattle an exchange they run it totally develop different analytical method using them the MOT method. I would just tell you I would just express this concern with you if you don't know what size your bucket is how do you know what you need to put in it you can't know Kenya. You don't know what if you have a one gallon bucket you put five gallons of the stuff in it. Or a five gallon bucket you put one gallon of stuff in it. If you don't know the capacity or so you can't know. What to apply to it that's the concern I have with that approach and I've dealt with growers who use that and it got themselves into trouble and then we did a simultaneous test we sat on the both labs sent on their sound McKinsey AG. To have the test done and he came back and I'll explain why he came back excessive and calcium and phosphorus. And Internet that his analysis from international I glad told him to put soft rock phosphate on you know is in soft rock possibly. Well the name itself tells you what one thing is phosphate and he's excess of already. Any and the other component of soft phosphate is calcium and he was excessive in calcium Well they've been following this practice for several years and they have an inclination to recommend soft rock phosphate pretty much all the time and so you know I told them I said can you you know you're you reconcile this you know this is what this is showing you that you've exceeded the capacity of this bucket and Eve exaggerated these two things but they're telling you to put more on so you need to sort this out with them he asked them so they actually Rana they ran a cat an exchange for him and it came back and showed him excessive and I still recommend he put it. I don't want to get into the whys in the wherefores of all of that but I'm just saying that. My concern with that whole process there is a lot of valuable information within that school of thought I just want to say that but I know that if you don't know the capacity your so you can know how much you need to apply to it you can't you just no way to know it you're just guessing. You know that one of the things the doctor enjoys say well you need to put. To do it with a two to eight thousand pounds of calcium. In your soul which is it how do you know which one it is he knew that there is a a range of what you would need but if you don't measure the capacity of the cell how do you know is it two thousand pounds is four thousand is it eight thousand is thirty five hundred what is it you need to know so I do know in particular that that that international ag labs they don't measure c c normally now they can do it I don't know how they're how they're doing that analysis so I couldn't tell you you know what method they're using on that you would have to ask them. So they don't use this one example and I don't have I did actually when I was at the put in here but they don't they don't actually run Exchange capacity so you would see it on their test. The next thing you're going to see on a cell test of course is the Ph. And. Remember I said ph just the measure of how much exchangeable hydrogen is in the soil it's not how much exchangeable calcium is not how much exchange the magnesium is in our potassium or sodium which is the other four major influencers on ph. When your PH is low which tells you that your hydrogen level is high your exchangeable hydrogen is high the more hydrogen ions you have the more acidic your soul gets so the lower your PH get there really follow that. OK so I'm sorry. The higher the more exchangeable hydrogen in your soil the more acidic it is and so the lower the ph goes is the way they it's the way they measure it and I always get accused of being too advanced for people and get in over their heads on not going to explain the logarithmic explanation of ph here if you want to go search it and look it up there's a reason it goes down when it when hydrogen goes up the quantity hydrogen goes up. But just know that you know the the more hydrogen ions there are in a slow their acid forming members it's a cat and it's acid forming and so the more that's there the more acid the soil is going to be. What it's telling you is. There's not enough alcohol and cattle hands that hydrogen the plant roots give off the hydrogen ions and the microbes give off the hydrogen ions and they exchange them for the nutritive elements hydrogen is not a nutritive element. And they exchange them for nutritive elements calcium magnesium potassium sodium off of the exchange complex and so the hydrogen takes the place of the calcium the magnesium or one of the other alkaline Catalans and when that Alkalinity is taken away and the cities added the ph goes down becomes more CITIC and so growers will take their cell tests and a look at the PH and a lot of times you got to get a test it was just ph phosphate in the task and nitrogen was recommended based on the crop so they were just seeing if you had enough phosphate potassium there to grow the crop or if you're going to have to add some and what the PH was to see if you were going to have the line so there are two different kinds of lime there's Callista decline which is high calcium lime has very little magnesium and is Dometic line which is about twice as much calcium as it is mag and there's Magnesium is about twice as much calcium is there is magnesium and growers will apply lime just to neutralize the PH now ph matters because the PH of the soil is going to determine the availability of different nutrients. And so it does matter but what how you address PH What is it that you need to correct about the PH is what where people get lost so growers depending on what part of the country they're from and what the limestone quarry is are in that area. That's the type of line they'll apply because they're just adjusting a PH they're not addressing what alkaline Catalans are missing they're just adjusting the PH to get it back up to seven to neutral. And so I can tell by looking at the soil tests that I get from different parts of the country where I know what the parent material is there so it's the callup the clay limestone cores or high calcium limestone cores and in Kentucky you know pretty much everything is high calcium limestone cores Indiana's the same way you get over into Virginia it's dolomite line. Stone quarries there and so. In Kentucky and Indiana in places I work like that if anything people are excessive in calcium into fission and magnesium and I get over into North Carolina and Virginia and places like that. They're excessive in the knees and you know deficient in calcium because they use in dollar might well I'm over there they're just adjusting ph nobody's addressing what the nutritive need is what's missing because there's too much hydrogen there and nobody's asking that question and so ph matters as far as available because they have the PH The soil will determine how the veil of all the neutrino is and they have charts out in put it in here but you can look it up with Ph You know availability chart of what's Ph. And they micro blueberries in here tried a lot of people to try. I one guy one guy who worked for the university tried three times and he died on them all three times trying to use the practices that and hit here's the thing the best blueberries don't grow in acid soil about you were told that were in. The best blueberries don't grow on acid so the reason that they say you have to grow in acid soil is because they found them in the wild in the Pine Barrens of New Jersey Michigan in Maine you know acid sandstone formations poor fertility blueberries require a lot of iron and manganese in the only way they get them is if it's really a set it because the more acidic it is the more available iron in manganese is but at the acidity levels the PH is that they say you have to grow blueberries that you can deal with potential manganese toxicity if you happen to be in a part of the country where manganese levels are naturally high you can deal with aluminum toxicity because free aluminum because to get is attaching to the Kohli's rather than. Alkaline elements like calcium and magnesium. And really what it comes down and I've asked I asked honestly I asked the big nurseries I asked that the universities in the states that grow most of the blueberries please tell me why you have to grow it that way. And the repetitive answer was You just have to grow it that way. Is not a scientific answer let me tell you a few things that don't happen one of things you because you're growing in that condition. They'll tell you blueberries can't use nitrate nitrogen and. They say it can't process it can metabolize nitrate nitrogen you know what's required to metabolize nitrate nitrogen. Molybdenum is required for the nitrate productive time in a nitrogenous and sign and without it and and also as a secondary factor Cobalt is required because the nitrogen fixing organisms require Coble they require B twelve so they have to have Cobalt. Cobalt is not an issue in a city so it's more available if it's if it's there in some cases it's not there. But molybdenum requires a higher PH to be available and. If you have it you probably only have a baby a pound. Maybe two pounds an entire two million two million pound player in an acre that's all you have is you don't need very much of it but in most cases there's not enough but if you lower the ph that low you just made a blueberry plant dysfunctional because it cannot get middle molybdenum to process the nitrate nitrogen. So of course it's not going to be a process nitrate nitrogen if you supply that if you balance the PH in you supply the molybdenum then it can handle nitrate nitrogen. Well. Another one they tell us it's a callous a fusion what they mean by that is that the calcium is toxic to it. It's actually a magnesium file it needs to have available magnesium and there's vision it's very sensitive to that but without calcium. When when a flower pollinates there's a rapid cell division time there where the embryo rapidly divides how many civilians there are is determined by how many calcium is there now what do you think that would affect. It would affect the size of the blueberry. Because what's going to happen next is the potassium is going to start filling out all those cells and let's say just to throw numbers out this a lot more than at let's say there's ten cells that after the multiplication process and there's fifty cells after the multiplication process which thing which you think is going to be a bigger Berry if you start with fifty cells or ten. You're going to get much bigger yields because you're going to get your once the Beria stablish is the potential for size is going to be a lot bigger and calcium is also essential in cell wall structure and so if you want to hold up you've got to have and you want it to have immunity you've got to have it so. Growing in a very acidic so like that calcium is hardly available. And are already depriving it trying to keep it depriving it of calcium to try to keep the PH low. And so. You know what I'm saying by this is I'm using blueberries because it's kind of one of those extreme conditions there are very specific needs that the blueberry has but a complete imbalance provides everything at that plant needs the best blueberries and the highest shields the best tasting blueberries grow on a healthy balance still not on acidic so so. So anyway when you see your PH is low it's telling you you're missing kadai and nutrients you know alkaline kadai and nutritive NEWCHURCH you're missing calcium in missing magnesium it's not telling you what how much of those you're missing or which ones you're missing is just telling you're missing those. Your job now is to determine which ones I'm missing. By applying the ones that you're missing to the levels that they should be at your ph will automatically adjust to where it should be which isn't about soil it always wind up between six and six and a half years they depending on where you maintain where you have to maintain calcium sometimes if you have a calcareous soil or where you choose to maintain potassium because you may maintain a little bit higher for what he plants they require a lot more potassium a seed may maintain a little bit higher. But it's always going to fall generally between six and six and a half and typically it's six three to six four it doesn't fall at neutral a lot of people think that it should be a neutral but you actually want some acidity in the soil because that's how you you're take advantage of the pear material you have there you know if you have phosphate phosphorous in the soil if you have potassium and so it's mostly. As do that's how that materials that the acidity is transferred from the coal to the rock material in the soil and that acidity breaks down that raw material and makes available the nutrients that are in it where there's potassium or phosphate or calcium or whatever in there so you want to slight acidity there you don't want it necessarily neutral it's not going to hurt you it's necessarily neutral but you won't have as much advantage as you would otherwise. The next thing that's going to be so is everybody get the Ph thing it's just telling you they're missing something and then you have to figure out what am I missing what needs to be there it's not there it's been taken in the growth process and needs to be replenished because I have to you know a lot of the line is used by the way as Course line is called AG line it's using what comes off the crusher bell went with you know Iraq Cory's stuff the fall through the belt and to scoop it all up in a cell is lime they were selling it in my area for fifty cents a tonne and they're just as it's a waste product for them they're just trying to get it out of there because they can't sell as Iraq and I asked the extension agent I said what's the you have the analysis for that quarry because I want to know because I need some calcium. And they don't know I mean it's just what the effective neutralizing value is it's a number based on one hundred percent calcium carbonate they have what they call an effective neutralizing value and so you could tell me that I said well what's the fine is a grind. And she said what you see me I've had growers like this because they're just putting it on to adjust ph and there's really really don't know a lot more than that about and you've got people working at these places that are just there to do a job and get a paycheck they're not really there is informed engaged interested people in what they're doing I've had actually actually had people get upset with growers when they called out which type A line is it is. They were told what difference does it make as a line. Because they're just adjusting ph they're not addressing nutritional deficiencies and missing missing things OK organic matter. Again I told you they could they could be representing the two different ways I don't I think that this is lost on incineration that Logan use is not Walkley black and so your real act if a cloak humus is probably lower than this now I'm not saying I believe that that's the case here but I'm not definitely sure that they're not using a walker black Most people have gone away from the Walkley black method because they lost on incineration is a cheaper faster test and it works chromium is required required in the Walkley black process and that's expensive and. They also have to handle as a hazardous waste the lab and so that's a hassle for him so they just went away from it even though they don't get as accurate information with it on it so you don't know which one of that is I don't know what Logan when I went out the one that I use which is Perry Labs which is by Kinsey Ag Services it's Walkley black it's actually closer humus it's not total organic matter percent so you really what the number you get is telling you is telling you what you really have as far as. Active what was called active humus which is a chart has that colloidal charge on it and it actually holds nutritive elements in that way organic matter actually holds nutrient elements in another way which is abs or inside as opposed to adsorb which is just attach to the outside that's what the charges you get both storage is that wave. So what the reason I'm telling us is that if you have another lab report and you want to have a little bit better knowledge of what it is that you've got there you might want to ask questions about how they're deriving the numbers that you're arriving. OK then you get down into you get down into the numbers they're either usually represented. At the different elements the and you see up there sulfur and they will name a list nitrogen up here. With the E N R on there is I don't think it's on here. They don't even put in the N R ON THEIR the what the one that I do the one that I use has an E N R And like I said it's just telling you you know estimating based on the organic matter percentage that you have how much nitrogen you can expect to become available from that source so you can you can kind of bank on being a made available to your crop you'll see here under phosphorous. They say smell it three there. They're telling you that that's the process they're using to derive this phosphorus So I do not know personally enough about what the numbers should be for phosphorous based on the mail of three analytical method to tell you whether those numbers are good or they're not I don't know. If it was based on the brave P. two which is a strong acid extract and when a doctor already used and or some arguments about all this stuff and why and why not and everything but I honestly can't tell you what those numbers mean I don't see that. On my cell test I'm going to show you that in a minute the way I do it do I can see I does it we they primarily do it I do more than they do actually I will put a desired value there. And this is one of the things you should expect from a lab if they know what they're doing they should be able to tell you what your desired value is. What value what quantity of material should you expect to have to be there and they should be able to tell you the value found as you see here with calcium and magnesium test they should be able to tell you what is a desired value based on the capacity that still and how much based on how much saturation of that cat I and you want. Which you'll see down here in just a second we're going to go through they should tell you what that is and then they should be able to by their analytic analytics tell you what was actually there the value found and then you will know and I sure in my excessive. I mean at least ten like say on this when in this particular first one here the short fifty three pounds this is based on pounds per acre You see they did sell for up there's parts per million the other thing I did on line with all the major elements was put it all in pounds because I just. A lot of people get lost with the parts per million thing it's easier for the people who work with it but I do stuff that I have to do in metric for Australia in Africa so I just converted the kilograms per hectare and I just do it that way but you know I put it all in pounds all of them just so that they're all consistent you're looking at them you'll also notice another thing is here as P two zero zero five that's the form that the plant utilizes with the form when you buy of a. Fertilizer and you have the number three numbers on there and the second number represents phosphate not phosphorus over in Australia they measure it as phosphorus and so over here if you had triple superphosphate which is zero forty six zero forty six percent phosphate over in Australia it's zero twenty zero because you have to multiply phosphate by point four four to get the actual phosphorus content and so over in Australia it's zero twenty zero Well they used to have a product in this country that was zero twenty zero eight and it was a precursor though forty six so it was less concentrated but if you actually turn that into phosphorus then it would only be about eight instead of twenty and be zero eight zero that zero twenty zero here this is a confusing thing to growers and nobody seems to know why they do well that part of their aims that they they represent it instead of representing it as the element which all the rest are well I take that on this test it is I'll talk about the testing that they're there representing this is a compound and so. It doesn't some people say well they did that because then people would think they were getting more and a bag of fertilizer so they thought it was worth what they were paying for and whatever I think it probably was just because that's the form the plant uses but if you're going to make that argument the form of sulphur that the plant use it is sulphate so why not represent sulfurous sulfate instead of elementals elemental sulfur and the reason I'm talking about this is because. People say sulfur is considered a secondary element not a primary or a major element is consider secondary of the major elements is considered secondary. Phosphorous will not lead from the soil unless it gets an extremely excessive levels it has to erode away as a wash away with the soil or blow away with the sill in the air once it's there it's there and it's not going anywhere. Sulfur easily leeches out of the soil. And so you can lose it easy now the big thing. If you actually took sulfur and compared it to phosphorus as sulphate or you took phosphorus and made it phosphorus instead of phosphate compel element to element it takes as much and sometimes more if you're growing specific kinds of vegetables and fruits as much or more sulfur than it does phosphorous and yet it's considered a secondary element and it leaches. And I can tell you that on its soil test I see almost consistently unless they've got another issue issue going on. There deficiency. And part of the reason this is happening is because all the average age of the farming communities is sixty. I don't know exactly what the number is down but it's about sixty years I mean it's that's it that's a terrible statistic for any vocation to have your average age is sixty it should be down around thirty. Or so but. The problem here is that most growers are still thinking in the past of what conditions were in the past a lot of sulfur came from burning of coal. The burning of gasoline it was incidental in that zero twenty zero I told you about they would take rock phosphate and they would react it with so fear it acid and that would member the other element in rock phosphate as calcium and so they would concentrate the phosphorus on the but then they would get calcium sulphate or gypsum and so that was the material and that's what they use for a long time and so growers were getting calcium in sulfur and they weren't even thinking they were getting it they just thought they were they were getting phosphorous that's gone that materials not available anymore they took the sulfur out of the coal stocks it took it out of the gasoline in all the places that incidental sulfur was coming from is gone and farmers are still thinking thirty years ago when that was all the case and so they all think that they're fine with their cell. Hurt and they're all deficient sulfur Why does this matter. When we eat is grown on soil sulphur the sulfur deficient when you grind here thinking you're trying to do something good healthy for your family. You take whole wheat berries you'll grind on this fresh flour you'll make it into a loaf of bread and you put it in your of and and you know what happens as soon as it goes above one hundred sixty degrees. If that sulfur deficient starts producing a carcinogen acrylic mind so it matters it really matters but we have that you know we get stuck sometimes you know the older we get especially we kind of. Stay stuck with our thinking the way it was in the past in Times change honest things change and we don't really taken into consideration. OK but anyway even on those who they don't have it there you should have any and are on your on your SO report that tells you what the estimated nitrogen releases for you should have that on there they don't have it on theirs. They should even on sulfur and phosphorus there and ions you so so and if they're there and ions it's not based on a percentage it's based on how many pounds but they still should be able to tell you. You know what your desired range of phosphorus should be what the desired range of sulfur should be you should have that number there and should have the number this is telling you. These are samples and I don't know if they were taken from real saw test or not we can see every single one of those sulphur levels is because that test is pretty standard but every one of those sulfur levels is extremely deficient. There. It should be it should be between fifty and one hundred parts per million and so in pounds most of those are anywhere from you know fifteen to twenty twenty five pounds and you should have anywhere from one hundred to two hundred pounds of sulfur there OK so you get down into the what they call the the Catalans exchangeable Catalans as calcium magnesium potassium and sodium and of course you'll notice on the first three they give you a desired value and a value found and I put on a deficit or surplus because a lot of times people have surpluses of those things they have too much of them and they have to be addressed you know how they don't do it on sodium they measured it. And I don't know really why but you need to know what the desired value is there to anybody grow beets go to you grow borrow barley. And beets if you have sugar beets or you go table beets or. Swiss chard similar Swiss chard have Let's finish. The goose foot family and barley and some other grasses we need a lot of sodium. And you need to have at least a half percent sodium in your soil it's a saturation percent thing. As a percentage because they all impact each other you get the pounds by the percentages which we're going to look at here in a second how many pounds and then I'll tell you illustration if we have enough time here on here. So how do you know you know how many pounds you have at how many you can go to I can go down here where the percentage is a member I said you need at least a half percent if you're going to grow in those crops for sure. And he's OK These would all be OK because they're above point five So you would have adequate sodium with that that. I do the same thing all the way down on all of them desired value value found in deficit not everybody I mean how many of you would be able if it how many of us have seen Well let me pull it up here we're just going to deviate from this one for a minute. Sorry I can put these on slides because they would become too hard to read. I mean have you ever seen a Soto's like that you can't really read it here really well but over here it says very high high medium low very low as they may have so a test like that. And then they give you the number found across here let me pull the other one it's not a graph like this this happens to be and I'll West. The way they report there's I believe most of the A and L. as reported the same way whether it's a L. east so there's a no West there's an L Canada I don't remember how many different they are I think that someone changed their name. But you'll see the you'll see next to these kind of blurry Can you guys see that OK it's kind of I was afraid that this was because I was going to blur out because of the resolution I love H L am and it's high low medium. Does that mean anything to anybody you have a number there what's it supposed to be if it says mediums I mean OK it's in the right place what if it says it's high. What is that what does it mean. Are if it's low. The most people don't know what to do with that. I had somebody that wanted to save money one time and I was helping them for free anyway so I don't know. Where they want to save money as one of our missions schools and they decided to send. Their samples off to N.L. West. They decided to send her samples off to N.L. West and. Sorry I think my bad battery is seen as better days and they got it back and this is what they saw and they don't have enough knowledge of social science in agronomy in what all that means. And so they called me up and said they said could you help us with that and I said I'd love to but. I don't know what they're talking about either. So this is another thing that you need to take in consideration when you're looking at how something is you know how much of something is going to cost you what is the value of the information you're getting. A lot of people say oh I can get it for half as much but then they don't get any recommendation with it. And how many people know what to do with it and less somebody tells them what to do with it how valuable of the numbers are you don't know what to do with it. So be sure and that's why I say you you need a lab test that's going to tell you what you want to have there. And you know that those numbers are of demonstrated themselves to be accurate valuable representation of what your condition is. You want to know what you should have there what you have there and what you need to apply and then you need somebody to be able to do you need to either know how to do it if you don't know how to do it that's fine we need to find somebody that knows how to do it because I could take I've I've had to help people other consultants out who messed things up because they just took the numbers as they came out of the lab report so let's say you have the desired value you have the value found you know the deficit and let's say you're short like on the sulphur we talked about there let's say you're short sulfur and so you based on the C C wanted two hundred pounds there and you only have twenty four you need to apply hundred seventy six pounds a night in to get up to your optimum level right. So that's what would if you took those numbers you just replenish what it said to resupply. You might make a mistake I have to look at every single one after I do the preliminary calculations on it and what I'm supposed to have. And what I have and what I need it to supply or need to get rid of let's say in that case you are deficient you need to supply that sulphur but you're also deficient in phosphorus really deficient phosphorus and you're excessive in the cattle and you have excess of one of those cattle and a couple of them have too much magnesium rich. Much potassium or calcium whatever sulfur leeches those Callahan's Al And so you would want to make sure you had the optimal level of sulfur there that you could write because that would help leach out those excessive cat ads but sulfur is antagonistic to fosters. And so if you're already deficient phosphorus and you put that back that optimum level of sulfur on there you're going to suppress that phosphorus even more and you might have an issue with enough phosphorus available so then what I have to do or anybody that's going to work with your help you is I have to make an adjustment so why you may want two hundred pounds there I may only put a recommend one hundred. That way you have enough for the crop to grow in the microbes that have everything they need and you can begin the process of removing those excess of Callahan's. But you're not going to you're not going to overly suppress the cost for us which are going to how you're going to be and you're going to apply an app and you're you're trying to build it and so you have to you have to factor things in like that most people don't understand a lot of people to work with with soil testing and because consultants they don't understand that there's a there's a one to one relationship between calcium and magnesium and you get the numbers back and and your magnesium looks great but you're short calcium a bunch of calcium and you go to apply the calcium and you don't take that into consideration for every point that calcium goes up magnesium going down a point. And we don't have time to go into all of that here but if I just applied high calcium line to address that I might push magnesium too low and then and then I'm creating a deficiency for the magnesium so I have to see everything John here and if any of you heard of John Muir by John Muir said one time that when you talk on anything in nature you find it's connected to everything else and this is the reality is that you know doing one thing is going to impact other things and you wanted to balance stability nature always wants to means to belittle and so you have to maintain that stability as much as you possibly can in the process of restoration I have grown to say I want to do everything I can and I say we can but you're going to create a lot of disturbance I just want you to understand that and so in my create some problems in the short term it will straighten out that. Because you're going to do your disturbance stuff you're going to you're going to destabilize it for a period of time and you know sometimes you have to deal with things that are unpleasant in the process of doing that it winds up in a better place but OK so you know again having somebody tell me it's very low or very high or I mean it gives me a general idea I need to do something if it's higher very high than I I know I don't want to put any on if it's low very low I know I'm going to need to put some on but I don't know how much I don't it's not telling you if you don't get a recommendation some labs do that but they charge you for that too you just need to be sure you ask them to do that you noticed that on the Logan labs one and this one there's no recommendation. It was just a lab report. No no recommendation if you want to recommendation you got to pay a lot more for it. Than what you get for the lab analysis and a lot of people don't take having situation I more people call me and said hey I can I can kind of give him a general idea with Logan with these other guys that I don't like doing it because if I make if I make a mistake and I'm going to talk about Perry labs a very loud that I use here when we're wrapping up. Which I did and I caused a major mistake for somebody to buy what I recommend because I tried to do something to save some money. And and it's cost is took us three years to straighten it out. Three years to straighten out and he's had a loss of income loss of yield. Now. I wish I would've done that he's the one who wanted to do it. And I should have agreed agreed to it. He's want to want to do it so he can't put it back on me and say I should have the intelligence to say you know what I really want to do that because I don't think that I can I can be accurate with what I tell you to do and what will look at that in just a second here and these lab reports came out of the same lab that I used to get the right information. And I'll tell you why it didn't work out that way. OK So and then go back to the other one because you can't read this you'll see over here we're going look at the percentages over here you'll see I'm over here on this when they've got on their. Those percentages by the way because they're using a different analytical method are not going to match up with the model percentages that Dr Albright developed they're just not going to match up with them. And so if you know what the numbers are supposed to be for this then those are the numbers you need to shoot for but what a lot of people are doing is you're taking all Rex model and they're trying to apply their analytical numbers to him and are just they're just missing the mark constantly this is and I can tell you it's that within the last few percentage points it's within the last few steps that you see major changes happening and if you never hit those last few steps you're never going to see that you're going to experience that you should eliminate disease pressure you should eliminate pest pressure you should eliminate the vast majority of wheat pressure. If things are working right that town doesn't sound too remarkable to you. I've done it. I've been on a farm a seven thousand acres that's done it seven thousand so it can be little it can be big. And there's very specific reasons why it happens but you need to be able to hit the target you need to have accurate information to get get you where you need to go so let me go back to this other when the Logan one because it's a lot clearer and. Has to go through that real quick OK So down here you see the base saturation percents it really should be cabin saturation percent. Because like I said hydrogen is and some of the other bases are actually acid Catalans they're not alkaline Catalans. And over here usually you should have over here the labs going to tell you what the desired range is and so they do hear that calcium sixty to seventy percent magnesium ten to twenty percent potassium two to five sodium point five to three other bases it varies and exchangeable prefer to have about ten to fifteen percent exchangeable Hardy and OK so now you know that well which is a sixty or seventy. Or ten or twenty there's a matter as long as you hit in the middle of that well I can tell you what if you get the middle of it you're going to be a whole lot better off than a lot of people are but somewhere in that range you're going to be a whole lot better than other people are but you wanted to you wanted to hit right on where you wanted to be and your exchange capacity is going to determine what percentage of calcium you want and what percentage of magnesium primarily those two potassium and sodium is a little bit more independent of that. So in general in the mainstream cat an exchange capacities the mainstream bucket sizes you're going to want sixty eight percent calcium and twelve percent magnesium. It goes up and down depending on the exchange capacity because as exchange capacity goes down in the buckets gets smaller gets smaller then you start running into not having enough pounds there is this particularly the case with magnesium you need to maintain at least two hundred prefer really two hundred fifty pounds or so as you go down it once you drop below. A An exchange capacity of five point two two or I'm sorry eight point six eight once you drop below that you you have to start changing this in order to maintain adequate magnesium there and your your calcium saturation you're going to lower some in your magnesium saturation you're going to raise there's a lot more to this dynamic that we have the time to get into but I'm just saying that there's a very there's a very specific target you're trying to hit there given your range there and the problem with with Logan is. What I'm telling you is what I know to be the right numbers. I've seen with advancing eco AG who uses Logan labs they actually put up here they don't use the Logans numbers they put seventy to seventy five percent there. And they're actually closer to correct because Logan the way I understand it Logan when when when. Albrecht would come up with a Albrecht and all of that method would come up at sixty a load is going to come up to seventy to seventy two. And there's other labs that come up at sixty four. There's And it's all about how it's analyzed and how it's represented and so let's say it's supposed to be seventy two. And used and you're shooting for sixty eight the ever going to hit. You never going to hit what is supposed to be sixty four years that you're shooting for sixty eight you're going to overshoot it. And you can have too much so you need to know what the numbers mean that's why the analytical math is and the model need to be consistent with each other. Nothing to do with competence about how things are analyze or anything it's about what the numbers mean and it really matters so you can go down the chute you should have that on there and you should. Calcium and magnesium they should be able to tell you which what percentage of calcium you need based on a C.C. and what percentage of magnesium you need. Potassium and sodium it's long as you have a minimum point five there the only time that I you know tweak that is if I know people are growing like the growers growing sugar beets or they're growing barley or they're growing you know person a big grower of spinach or Swiss Tartar or table beets we need to make sure there's at least point five will be a whole lot better fish one percent there than point five on it potassium it's you know see it shows you are two to five percent but actually if you're grown what he crops you'd really be better off and this is on an all right model I'm talking about here not on Logan because I don't know exactly where these numbers. All fall but you'd be better off seven percent because woody plants use a lot more potassium than then and best mostly perennial plants use a lot more potassium than. Vegetative plants do and your plants that doesn't it all this also includes if you're growing indeterminant tomatoes pull beings Q Cumbers anything that has an indeterminate. What's what I'm trying to cover. And then determine a growth pattern anyway you know where it is just want to keep growing and has a growing tip in that growing to keep going. You want to you want to maintain a little bit higher on that so that everybody kind of understand that that this is the stuff you should this is the information you need to have and if you don't know what to do with it you need to make sure that you have your work with somebody that does know something to do with it and if you're not hitting the target it may take you a few years this seven thousand acre farm it took them fifteen years. To get there. But their profitability is so much higher right now they're converting it all over to certified organic now because everything's working so well that they can take advantage of the marketing advantage of being certified organic. And make even more money because because of that so they committed to it and it took them fifteen years but and they're working with these I mean you know what the prices of food are I mean if you try to go to a farmer's market and everything it's one thing if you go to some big city where people think they have all kinds of money to spend to go to someplace that you where I live we kind of live in the transition between a bluegrass and Appalachian in Kentucky and so we're surrounded by multi-million dollar horse farms and shacks. Little the original tiny houses these little some little people that live in these and the. We have to be mindful of because whenever we're doing what we're doing. We the people that have the money they think they have which is just really financial engineering. May not always have that luxury and if you get everything you are doing to be dependent on that and you can't supply the person living in the shack because they have nothing they can really frame what you have to get to the point where you are productive enough that you have the generosity the capacity to be generous. Towards people and be able to supply because I mean God's looking out for those people as much as he is the people that have their financially engineered wealth. Can you hold it for just a minute. And it's my time we're just about out of time here so that you see if there's anything else I want to let me just move to this wind. You'll see on the bottom here. Is the main point that real quick that they go to parts per million with the trace elements because it tends to be a smaller number typically with copper and zinc. And not aluminum but Cobalt molybdenum you're talking about a lot smaller numbers and so you have to convert it memory study to spotlight times two and I'll tell you how many pounds you have because they don't tell you how many pounds you need here is that a good number is it a bad number you don't know if you don't know whether you're finally whether you need to apply it or not let me where is my OK I'll go back to the way here let me just show the this is the way you get a recommendation from me. And so you'll see if I just black that out because I didn't get permission from the grower to use this so I didn't want his name and everything up there so I just I just. Covered it up. You'll see the crop he's growing as blueberries I work with a lot of blueberry growers we actually they've actually started a co-op in Kentucky where all the growers because they're winding up producing a higher quality Berry and so they wanted to have their own co-op that they marketed through and everything so I work with a lot of blueberry growers. You'll have a total exchange capacity ph of the sill sample the humus I actually see the humus content in here because it's actual colloidal humus it's being measured here on that nice having to be his numbers and then under that a desired calcium magnesium percent so you'll see under sixty eight twelve so you know what you're supposed to be shooting for. And then then here you have what it is so in this case remember I said in Kentucky all I'm stone quarries are are high calcium lime so I always see this is guys are always way too high in calcium so you've got eighty three point eight six percent calcium the university although I had to in my grower speak at the the fruit and vegetable growers conference in Kentucky to him one guy did a presentation deliberately on mineralisation he's a blueberry nursery in Kentucky and all of the big guys from the university were there listen to his presentation and and then I had another grower who did so good in his first year of growing. That. They didn't realise that what he was going to share his the Y. but you know that they had share that year about you know how things went as a first first year and everything. But most people would tell you with that percentage of calcium there's no way you're going to grow blueberries. There's no way. And I can tell you there's lots of liberal growers grown blueberries with that much calcium in the soil. So he needs to bring that down and we're working on that but you know he has a problem here he doesn't have enough magnesium Emery said these guys always wind up not having enough magnesium and it's not that he doesn't have enough magnesium in that soil by the way. Those two should add up to eighty percent all the time and what do they add up to. Ninety three plus. Ninety three plus what that tells you is there's more magnesium there's just been suppressed by calcium there's more magnesium there but he has to have at least ten percent. Saturation available in order to get enough magnesium so we had to add magnesium you see down here we had to add magnesium to that so in order to make sure that that he had it. And on a down in case you see a mind to seven and a half percent you can actually have up to seven and a half percent I don't have time to explain why up to that and not past that. But you know the percent sodium other bases other bases just representing all those other trace elements metals that that are in the soil but they're in a so in small quantities and they have a way a calc it's a calculated number there. Of course exchangeable hydrogen there isn't any because of but he's above seven Ph D. and R. value there. And then you start working your way down here. I could do it this way sorry you start working your way down and you see on nitrogen there's no desired value. Nitrogen is the one thing that's going to be crop dependent and you have to target it to the crop and so that's why there's not a desired value there because because of that. But then you'll see on sulfur this is a value a value found in his case is very deficient so you'll see I'll put over here I'll put it very deficient deficient very high excessive It's kind of like the low medium high very high but at least you know what that means. Because there's a desired value there and you notice I represent is that a P two zero five it's actually represented as elemental phosphorus So that's why there's that the numbers would be different and you might see on another another test and on down through their. Calcium magnesium potassium sodium all of the trace elements desired value the value found and the deficit or surplus and usually it's highlighted if that surplus is a problem where it is with calcium you see it there highlighted as a problem. And then you know over on the side if it is or otherwise could you take this could you take this and. And understand it and know what to do with it. That's what you should expect from a slow test and less and less you know what to do with it how many of you know what to do it on your own if you just got a lab report. I'm not picking on you. It's just the reality if you don't you don't. And you need to you need to if you're going to use another lab I'm not telling you you have to use kins Jaeger or or work with me or any of that I'm what I'm saying to you is you need to know that what you're paying for is going to be worth what you've got and you going to know what to do with it. So. We have to stop so what I'm going to do I will be happy to answer some questions but do you think you understand a little bit more about you know your X. what your expectations should be. And expect that from long they should be able to answer your questions they should be able to answer what is our value they say oh well we really can't tell you that we don't and I suggest you find another line thank you everybody for your attention hopefully hope it was helpful this media was brought to you by audio first a website dedicated to spreading God's word through free sermon audio and much more if you would like to know more about audio verse or if you would like to listen to more sermons Please Visit W W W audio verse or.

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