Favorite Sermon Add to Playlist
Photo of David DeRose

Creation-Science Evangelism

David DeRose

Presenter

David DeRose

President of CompassHealth Consulting

Conference

Recorded

  • October 30, 2009
    11:15 AM
Logo of Creative Commons BY-NC-ND 3.0 (US)

Copyright ©2009 Adventist Medical Evangelism Network.

Free sharing permitted under the Creative Commons BY-NC-ND 3.0 (US) license.

The ideas in this recording are those of its contributors and may not necessarily reflect the views of AudioVerse.

SPONSORED

Audio Downloads

This transcript may be automatically generated

father in heaven we thank you for the privilege we have right now coming into your presence and father we have sensed as individuals and as a church how important this topic is we pray you help us and not only see them more clearly but to realize what role we can enhance as health professionals in making a difference in the local church that were a part of the communities in our families and beyond we thank you in Jesus name amen well by way of the perspective as we begin our time together were going to look at three different areas today on what a first look with you at some philosophical issues as they relate to creation science and the question is it is creation science important why did NASA question I'm just stating the fact that it is when you look at the excellent philosophical basis of first down were actually going to look at some things you may want to employ and not public presentations because that's especially with this seminar is geared for so first of August that he actually probably the larger portion of our time talking about why I think you should be excited and motivated to be involved in this subject taking a advocacy position your local church in your community and all of you who've registered have this CD this CD is something that a man is providing there is a number of the organizations and individuals who have allowed us to put their PowerPoint slides on here the deal with creation science since you want to be involved and then doing a creation science seminar a talk or sermon these resources are here for you to use there been granted to us to copy them freelancing about on this occasion for individuals see using their own presentations at all little but more in the way of background is just who I am I know some of you but not all of you I am a physician and public health professional I have boards of internal medicine and I still think I have an preventive medicine I need to recertify here very soon so I can tell you that here at the end of two thousand and nine most of what I've done in my professional career as a lot lines of preventive medicine about seven years ago I started a consulting practice mostly doing of programmatic consulting the health media I do contracted writing projects was doing it full-time for four or five years and a lot of what I was doing was working with faith-based entities add venison otherwise and got more involved with evangelism public evangelism and how health interfaces with that and so three years ago I was invited by the northern New England conference to scale back my work out with my company called compass health to half time and work as a pastor halftime so I'm employed half-time but in northern New England conference especially with the mandate to be involved in health evangelism actually think creation science and health evangelism are very closely linked we'll talk about that at least briefly in this first of the three presentations that I have for you I like is that this first one is really the longer presentation the other thing that is very important I think to emphasize for all of us is that we have credibility in the scientific realm even though we might say were not basic science as maybe some of you are not an PhD is a in all advanced training and some other discipline beside dentistry medicine why is in our communities in our congregations we are looked at as having a scientific knowledge base that has credibility attached to it so with that background let's talk about why I believe creation science is important and a question for you as we began and that is has anyone ever offered you a deal they just seemed too good to be true they might say one obviously asking the question in this section because this is not the financial health section and maybe people in this audience would be more likely to have a face in such a scenario but I wanted to give you a scenario about a deal that seems too good to be true and that will call the fellow Richard Richard has an old vehicle does this look like an old vehicle to it supposed to whether it does or not okay to dissolve vehicle it's all beat up and he means a very fine mechanics and his mechanic tells them you know I can six your whole Connelly mechanic I do bodywork and other cars breaking down every week but I can not only six it mechanically but I can totally restore this car now do it for two hundred dollars how does that sound to get too good to be true and the like I said were not in the financial seminar right now so one of you but see you Richard you decided to go for answer you give this mechanic your vehicle and I exactly tells you after a number of weeks not only is the car all repaired but he's going to personally deliver it to you if you would like the same business now well you say okay bring the carbide and then the next day as he comes by you see pulling into your driveway something looks like this you can deliver on his promise yet you say you are the men also those who are just listening you know it got us Sam Z sports car illustrated here I don't know what type of car that is some of you are better with those things and I am but were talking as we began about restoration the reason why I'm talking with you about restoration is because it's a theme in the Bible about motivation why would you be concerned about creation science is foundational to all biblical relevance revelation and asked chapter three verses nineteen and twenty one peters great sermon on the day of Pentecost he calls on the people they are to repent being converted that your sins may be blotted out when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord will listen carefully use this case will send Jesus Christ who was before preached to you the heaven must receive on tell how long has until the times of restitution or restoration of all things which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began why is Peter saying here is a theme of all of revelation what is he saying yes it's a plan of restoration the times of restoration the Bible is speaking the prophetic messengers are speaking about restoration and soaking everything this is the focus of biblical revelation using their Louisiana x-ray so what is restoration really involves what is restoration the rate making things that Brian is bringing things back to their original state the original designer purpose so think about it there the Bible is talking about a plan always worry things to their original state what is he talking about the Israeli fairness on the very premise that we haven't Genesis one and two is a big God created everything very good and he is going to return creation to that state so I'm time help was the first of all origins is not just a tangential issue foundational to the whole theme of the Bible is the plan of restoration and so we read in Genesis one one about God 's creation God is the active agent of creation we reviewed the end of that chapter that he made everything how very good so what I'd like to suggest you and I don't really need to even suggest it because we see in our ranks this adds an asset throughout Christianity is that most Christians today most of those who self identify themselves as Christians have actually laughed this straightforward testimony the Bible in Genesis one and two moving south to a single of origins there is totally human it derives DMI on shaky ground I was thinking about this cat so growing numbers of Christians really have an praise Darwin 's theory of evolution in fact it's interesting in the dialogue takes place in the secular marketplace we care about people like Francis Collins Francis Collins is a major figure major figure in medicine in the world meaning is currently the director of the National Institutes of Health he was a director of the human genome project is often interviewed in secular sources as far is his insights into origin and asset is what many is this our believing in Doctor Collins is just that he's a Christian what many Christians are actually saying is that if you look at Darwin 's theory of evolution it doesn't hold water so God must have been acting through the millions of years that evolutionary science is talking about so instead of just saying it's a process of nondirective process there is anger we need to believe in theistic evolution we can all live happily ever after we can all in all just smile me to be Christians you can be secularists so this is a prevailing theme in Christianity today and what is the Catholic Church with their pronouncements whether it's a evangelical scientists like Doctor Collins this is a prevailing theme in his intercourse has come into the Seventh-day Adventist church so let's just talk about Italy in its purest sense would evolution really speaking about whether it's theistic evolution or whether it's just saying you know there is no God and things just evolved on their own so this is a simple definition if you will of evolution that means the production of biodiversity through descent with modification whether through natural causes or by divine direction so there is a theistic evolution evolution implies mono filings of everything coming from a single tree you see knows those trees everything started from one organism and then branched out from there and that includes a common ancestry of humans and nonhuman 's go-ahead and will by me as I gather the problem I have to you have to make your comments short what they asked me to do because a taping is for audio verse even though we can amplify lighting is wrong and we will try to do that so you can hear it try not to wax eloquent and try to keep things focused so I can repeat the question in the weekend answer does go ahead and ask the question what he's getting it up and running go ahead Jim is used in a you as you will see a what is it was and is will will will will is my balls all the institutions that we have and will always have everything recently is not just a know exactly what's what's happened as the other theory of evolution as a unifying worldview that the human a staff and so in contradistinction to evolution we have creation pesos any act of God by personal agency is not just got one of the universe and then things develop he's bringing into existence separately diverse kinds of organisms and it certainly implies a separate ancestry human summit is very basic basic definitions here so we just love it I asked three verse twenty one that God is spoken by all his holy prophets since the world began to her interesting statement and I put this up here because some of the people that we even have resources on the CDs from our people who are very I would say very narrow even in their view of inspiration and let me take a little the sign we can dialogue about this if we need to summon those of you would think would be our allies in advocating creation science take a very literalistic view of inspiration the Bible so your Baptist King James only version neighbor actually is going to come to different conclusions and send me what the problem is what the problem with this is is if you have this view that God only inspired the King James version is facing a sound strange to some of you is a sound strange to some of you but if you in any evangelism or interfere interface with other of fundamentalist Christians evangelical Christians often have this concept and what happens is than words become cold words came whenever you see the word beginning that has to mean the same as Genesis one one in the beginning ending and what happens is instead of looking at the contextual 's structure of revelation looking at the original languages they make the King James version the inspired word of God and they make coastal world began that means Genesis one verse one I will tell you here in this context here I think you can make a case that this does point is to Genesis one two one three because the first prophetic message given is that message in Genesis three were the promises given that the Lord would put in with the between the seed of the serpent between the serpent seed of the woman so I'm just giving you a little aside here is make any sense to hear what I'm saying or is it that so tangential that I've lost most of you when I'm trying to do in some broad strokes is make you aware of some of the issues some of the dialogue NY is important him so restorations what we want to look at you and here's the question that if we really believe in this plan of restoration are we believing that if this will imitate the theistic evolutionary view what does the Bible talking about the ones are talking about is talking about returning the earth to some early stage of the evolutionary development gaining is seen as being the logical disconnect whenever you look in the Scriptures you look at the scriptural teaching they are based on effective Genesis one and two is a literal account of creation so you are not to spend a lot of time with this but you can go throughout the New Testament throughout the Old Testament is very clear that Bible writers when they were writing about what God was going to restore he was thinking about restoring the evening saying they didn't looking he has some fictional status whether it's Isaiah in the Old Testament whether it's Peter and his putting of these taxes is sixty five for the benefit of those listening for putting these up because were familiar with these and the Scriptures make it very clear that God 's plan of restoration involves bringing the earth back to its original created state and other creators it was very good indeed it was perfect this is part of the foundation I believe for health message and we'll talk about that in a little but more detail later so if you want to be on the cutting edge as far as a scriptural basis for health you cannot throw out the original creation account you can't say that things just evolved this undermines a lot of the biblical basis for creation now in stark contrast Lenny always interesting fact that duplicate slides appear on give you little Tony will story my first creation science and I gave earlier this year and we were doing at some of you heard in the previous session we're doing it to try to lead out to get more interest in the community for a big guy evangelistic series big as far as big as a small church can offer and so we advertise on Christian radio that we were doing this creation science seminar and my wife was up here in front Sonja will attest to probably how many times I said whatever got in my mind to do something like this because you know we got this thing all I advertised and I I mean I've never done it before and you always I tend to be a fairly optimistic person and my wife says if I say something to take an hour she says we say triple and it's usually accurate to her three times so it all here I had all this idea of law that I was getting it done to be ready for this series and and I'm the sole presenter thought we were doing two meetings on Friday night when we canceled the regular church service were doing several meeting Sabbath mornings were having a dinner for the visit enough everyone who comes in and were doing another meeting in the afternoon question-and-answer session will like what ever guiding me to do this but I used a lot from other people are willing to share with me and a lot of those resources are on the CD some of whom I don't agree with and every position they take but people are pulled together a lot of stuff and we'll talk about some of them as we go through our our sessions together sell when I presented that everything is not a polished presentation in fact the Lord rebuke me many years ago I was invited to preach years ago and I said I just don't have time to prepare to preach I can preach the Sabbath and I came to the church service that Sabbath and I can't tell you remember exactly what happened but I thought it was just terrible I don't know what happens no one showed up all I have this memory is that the Lord rebuke means that the reason why this happened is you are supposed to preach they asked you to preaching you didn't do it and some of you may not feel the same laminate saying you have to but don't be afraid to to speak when you don't have time to get everything all lined up for sale that's crazy because you look like a fool annual people in the community also you are people in the church will see if the Lord is opening the door for you to do something step out enjoy it I encourage it out why is that okay and he is to provide I've seen it time and time again so that so uses a master slides are on Italian to be honest with you I wish I had more time to prepare for this meeting today if I had waited until was all completed many would be next year but it was next to her to be bunch of other more pressing things it would until shortly before Kerry were talking about philosophical dangers of evolution the first one is it contradicts the biblical theme of restoration is the second one it divides the church and I don't need to tell you that a Seventh-day Adventist of this theme is dividing our church after speaking with someone who said that virtually all of the General conference vice presidents were recently together with the president would be on Paulson and I had really me with other leaders in the church in North America division and really wanting to take a very strong position on the literal creation account in Genesis one and two but this is a subset that is dividing our church today and I would like to suggest to you that he has the old ball lack of humility in the Christian church and many of its is one of the presenters who on his ministry graces they allowed us to share his materials here is someone by the name of the cantonment humming and I'll can hope some of you may be rolling your eyes I don't know can home and is a a Baptist Luzon is still in prison and don't be too smug because as best I can tell he may be in prison for nothing more than a Adventist ministries is done it had to do with how he was running his ministry and thinking he was avoiding taxes when he really wasn't but he made a lot of enemies you can listen to his presentations is a very colorful creation science speaker I first learned about him I was doing evangelistic series and some of the Baptists were attending my meetings shared some of can hold men's CDs with us but he is on he consistently puts down people who believe in evolution like their stupid idiotic and this is a common theme in Christian churches and creation science meetings and no matter how clear the issues may be to you this is not the way to deal with creation science in our churches okay so it is Seo old a lot of the rank or in this whole discipline and I wouldn't want you back to some of these fundamental statements of the Scriptures in Micah six eight he shown the old man what is good what is the Lord desires you what is due justly love mercy and walk humbly with your God and we walk humbly with God as we deal with creation science and origins we need to his second Chronicles seven fourteen nine senses already been focused on this during these meetings God is thinking about it and is very interesting piece thinking about healing his people and the conditions for that is what one of the conditions is humility so I force the purpose of this seminar here today is not to give you more ammunition so you can go back and show those stupid evolutionists in your church how wrong where and that's not the point so there's an abundance of in humility or maybe we should say pride on both sides of this issue so whether you're talking about creation or evolution when you call it intelligent design or naturalism and by the way biblical view of creation does not necessarily imply intelligent design people that believe in theistic evolution also believe in intelligent design often it's a look at some of the incivility here is the school teachers as Darwin report do I know you can read but remember this is being recorded and she says to the young student I grant you evolution was a theory to begin with but it evolved into a fact a long time ago so what are the implications of a statement like that you see a cartoon like them there's some implications and what we call people who don't accept fax software and still got a lot lose his words that describe lives of adolescents in fact and you're not accepting what's the problem party like this from time magazine Charles Darwin didn't want to murder God as he once put it but he did what is that imply and what it implies is this whole concept of evolutionary science is Jim illustrated basically erodes the whole foundation for the Christian faith now listen to Doctorow 's book is excellent origins linking science and Scripture but I think the review and Herald publishes that he hears he is a scientist sees attended values ahead of the geoscience research Institute he's attended many scientific meetings and here's some of the things he's her creationism is scientific prostitution what you think is is a good way to develop rapport between those who may see origins differently everything about this one creationists intentionally and cynically misleading well-intentioned citizens and are as crooked as a three dollar bill creationism as science court represents political and religious mischief and creationists offer a erroneous pseudoscience they pass off as scholarship but creationists are not immune to this this is actually one of can hold men's illustrations I'm not sure if it actually ended up on your CD or not but I don't know if you see what's happening here this is Darwin 's silly so and you see what's happening is supposedly taking someone's brains away and what is that imply they are arming to continue singing this whole issue is something that we need to talk intelligently about we don't need to be saying things like this things are creationist statements like many atheistic evolutionist your claim is yet another serious attempt to discredit the Bible and defend your atheistic faith faith and evolutionism maybe the degrees you have a I worth the paper on which the written for evolution is being accused of employing outdated and dishonest argument but I'd like to suggest to as many abolitionists whether they take the name of creation of Christian or not are honest people so my promises us as much scientific evidence and since he seems to support an evolutionary worldview so evolutionists are not inherently either idiots or dishonest is at three clear there is scientific evidence however that seems to support creationist worldview I think the evidence is strong and creationist inherently are neither idiots nor dishonest so one of the things I believe we have to do with you doing things in public whether you're talking with people in private we have to restore some civility in the dialogue K so why don't nonbelievers that have problems with creationism when it where they see as problems with what why why is a problem for okay they have to admit a creator and in this house of those atheistic agnostic evolutionists I was one of them at one time in my life so I can now relate to this matter than any of the rejecting God or at least question his existence the very same reasons I'd won't what are the reasons why did I question God 's existence things that make sense in dead things happen venal sin and suffering or the religious background that you have was not intellectually compelling and the doctrine of hell was one we often talk about the only reason is a loving God that burns people forever never been a very interesting thing about all this is I think there are many people that have rejected God that the Seventh-day Adventist message the biblical message regarding given to us as a people is part of the solution to addressing their evolutionist state mindset and what to talk about this a little bit more in a few minutes because the way to address that is not by telling them they're wrong is evolutionist and try to argue with science alone because his evidence to support worldviews you need to look at some of the undergirding evidences for bullies so when people hear about a God who is not worthy to worship which I would suggest you is the God that most churches reveal that most Christians demonstrate you want to talk to the average educated secularist AUSA tell me the first three things accounted your mind when you hear the word Christian what kind of things they had time to talk about Bible Belt I'm talking about a New York City and and in talking with things in the coming months hypocrisy what else is no fun narrow minded bigots trying to shop their ideas down peoples throats and these are the things that I hear when I talk with people character not about how loving and compassionate there we like to believe ourselves that when a new hopefully by God 's grace we are but the Christian lobby how does Islam do Christians really does we can go on and on and why is it because even well-meaning Christians have misrepresented God 's nature and his character so really what were calling ourselves back to look at this track but I wanted to let you know when I get a creation science seminar I don't spend a lot of time with this game I'm doing it in this setting because I think we need to have this kind of dialogue is due to be involved in working with you communities working with your churches but if you start talking like this is like some of you are asleep you lose your audiences are not really interested in the philosophy they're interested in and in all the science and the slides of the fossils and and we have a lot of been on your CV and I'll show you some of those in how I use it but I'm trying to help you see the basis for why we need to be passionate as health professionals using the credibility we have in our communities and our churches to take a public stand on this subject so why don't believers have problems with it why don't believers have problems with creationism when I'm talking about here okay Anthony science museum field a lot that I went to a secular college started in a secular college before I never heard Seventh-day Adventist and creation science was not what one made to Christ in the center they administer we tend to think it's an evangelistic tool I use it as an evangelistic tool because you can attract a Christian audience I will say that there is a lot of ability and just doing a creation seminar to women evolutionists secularist I think it helps around the Christians and attracts to your church and your venue especially we advertised window creation seminar we advertise it to Christians binders ways you can use it to reach secularist I don't think it would a look at Isaiah the book of Isaiah is very interesting reasons why I don't think this is the optimal approach but believers have problems with creationism if you do something in your church on creation science weaknesses in this and my local church when the last few months I was shocked by the kind of responses I got from longtime Seventh-day Adventist legitimate because when people are drawn up in the church there is anyone who really may not things have evolved over millions and millions of years I just like I mean it was amazing to me in so you think everyone sitting around singing the same hands are the praise songs whatever they're using in your church but hey when you have a long way to go as a church on grounding ourselves in this whole subject here's a story I like to share one of doing a creation science seminar is a story from a distant land and it's a story about Sue Sue was a young idealistic teacher and she wanted to go to a third world country and make a difference area educators the the children and an area where they had did not have access to good educational resources Kansas so when overseas to this distant place which will remain unnamed so was there she started hearing some very disturbing things about the community should recently moved to one day one of the children came and they said my father just died an elephant killed him a few days later one of the children's pets disappeared and then trampled by an elephant a while later it's so good brought books with her one of the books vanished believe it or not she learned Allison had actually taken the book out of the girls home this went on for a number of weeks and one day Sue went to a larger city some distance from where she was teaching and she was telling the shopkeeper you know it was strange to her she hadn't seen any elephants but there are all kinds of things that village these elephants are causing all kinds of problems in the shopkeeper just started laughing and laughing and laughing don't you know there's no elephant there haven't been à la Cincinnati are you sixty seventy years this is one of people don't know when something happens and they can explain these and Allison stated what he would think that different teacher like sale preaching is a mission in mind she said she suddenly had a new purpose in your synergy had teachers things about France over the course of the next five ten fifteen years at restoring that went to that school things started learning things like in all when the dog ate the paper or when that they couldn't find something or someone died missing dad got sick and died no more than a long losing Allison didn't you say cancel off your something to happen that they couldn't explain so we don't know why but no more silly so please would you I got it no longer what are people talking about holidays causing problems in their village became a day ago when a bloody corpse was seeing outside the village and villagers all went out there to look apparently happened the night before they couldn't figure out what it happened this individual had he been eaten they started questioning other villagers looked around they were just perplex why was this person beaten looks like he was stabbed whatever laying they are just outside the village after a number of hours of deliberating a stranger from the municipality overseeing that area came into the village and he said who was it that was gored by the elephant said Gore by Nelson Yamane to sell what tracks there on what it happened what happened here's the flyer even if you exclude the true cause from consideration no amount of science can provide a correct etiologic cancer why do I tell you this story and why do I tell out when I do creation science and I want to look with you it just a few definitions to make this very clear to see what we talk about science about why there's a conflict we talk about science we need to define our terms and in the Webster's dictionary and you'll find a definition like this for scientists systematized knowledge derived from observation study etc. well that definition now that permits a discussion about creation science right fits into that definition but if you look in other places we won't read this whole definition let's is look at this definition three and that one emphasizes the systematic study of the universe sounds pretty similar with the goal of developing explanations of causal mechanisms without reference to nonmaterial or supernatural causes I like that definition science exactly that definition excludes God from the equation and so just like that story if you say elephants don't do anything you can't use elephants to explain anything this is foolishness will that when an elephant comes and does something are you able to see it now so what I'm trying to help listening is the mindset that our people are reared if you are not racist Seventh-day Adventist educational system like I was you were reared in a mindset to television to mean he to schools where creation science is oxymoron you can't put the two together because one you can visit science so if you exclude the possibility of God and science I would suggest you is not honestly looking at all options when it comes to origin so this is I think a compelling argument to at least introduce if you're talking with someone who is an atheist or agnostic are they really being open they may have rejected God for various reasons it is an honest way to assess the evidence came missing corollaries in the motor movements were one is you can find plenty of foolish thing said by creationists and hopefully you and I won't be among those who say foolish things that we probably will at some point or another second one as he can find funny for saying sent by evolutionists and attacking the weakest arguments of an asset opponent is not a sign of great intellectual ability ability of guy and is what we typically do in Christian circles we find the stupidest things anyone who believes in evolution is sad and we ridiculed back and then how do how does that help us out as a help our kids how does it help our church members when they're exposed to more compelling arguments you taken a step further you think the question of origins is a slamdunk case then I would say you just haven't looked at the opposing perspective very closely so what's the solution and as we set our second concern is causing the as you search audio United Church of origins issues well some are saying we need to call a truce this is actually from not a Christian publication the Smithsonian the publication they have a electronic publication the just advances electronic but the title was as last year 's science to religion can't we all just get along cannot we all just get along well the problem with this as we can still be humble and advocate truth about a creator God and who was scientific integrity we don't have to say it doesn't matter what you think and this is really that postmodern answer they were applying more and more in our church missing what really doesn't matter as long as you know we worship the same God or it dies it matters usually when you look at more the reasons for so many are agnostics because they've never examine carefully the creator God is revealed in the Bible I believe that I also believe that many Seventh-day Adventists have embraced evolutionary science because of a similar lack of knowledge of God 's revealed word so it's got it's time that Christians are calling for civility but you can have it froze when the other side is gearing up for a more aggressive battle right that's was going on maybe we see all around us and these atheistic attacks are heating up we can look at all kinds of the background it is enough to do that but I just want to remind you that militant atheism is on the rise it doesn't mean that these people are dishonest but they are very selective in what they're talking about they don't talk about all the terrible things that atheists have done in history like Hitler or Stalin so I together on this we come together based on God 's word can we focus on God 's word we studied together we accept people where they're at but we don't compromise the truth so let's look more of these philosophical dangers and the next one is that evolution of skiers the evidence of God 's existence so the Bible claims to deal with ultimate origins we often quote Genesis one one in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth but there is a lot more in Scripture that emphasizes throughout the new and Old Testament Psalm ninety first two for example before the mountains were brought forth or ever you have formed the earth and the world from everlasting to everlasting you are God what does this say about God 's creators a clear yet history and see what what the liberal Christian community will tell you is that Genesis one and two is just figurative geologist allegorical it's just the old guy was just trying to make a point that there is a God in the word here because of him but none of the other Bible writers subscribe to their that all actually believe in a God who by his personal agency created the earth psalm ninety three the Lord is King he's relevant Majesty was pleased from everlasting even the name of God what is the name of God Yahweh I found that I have the self existent one in the New Testament you can read job Hebrews one Revelation one four by him crisis is Colossians all things were created that are inhabited in her honor is visible and invisible whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers I think according there correctly you can check me out the Bible than not seem to recognize though the value of God biblical arguments for God 's existence as Romans actually Romans one eighteen three twenty for since the creation of the world his invisible attributes are clearly seen being understood by the things that are made even his eternal power and Godhead so that there without excuse why is the Bible make this statement they say one of the compelling arguments for who I is is what we observe in nature it's not just scriptural revelations is not just the lives of Christians it should be a testimony to that but it's actually creation is a witness to the true God so God 's primary means I'd like to suggest you that all of converting the atheist or agnostic does not involve a debate over origins now I take you through as I mentioned to you by any insights in the book of Isaiah and this is something I use as a segue to an evangelistic series case and your daughter creation science seminar in your church or even a public meeting place many Christians are there any economy about creation science but many of them have called to get ammunition to use against their evolutionist friends and something means is very important seeing no one he was seen as fairly clearly in the book of lies all God 's sakes in many places netbooks and demonstrate he is the only true God he repeatedly in Isaiah asserts that he's the creator but he does seem to expect that these statements these assertions of his creator ship would be accepted as truth by the skeptic he gives to all their lives of proof God does through the inspired town of Isaiah as to why he should we worship about any other false God one of those other ways is through redemption in Isaiah forty four we read this I blotted out as a thick cloud by transgressions as a cloud by sins return unto me for ivory deemed the bus says the Lord thy Redeemer I'm the Lord that makes all things it stretches forth the heavens alone and spreads abroad the earth by itself I myself here there's a connection between one redemption and creation so all over again you can see in the book of Isaiah that God calls his people to knowledge in not only is the creator but as the Redeemer and so he's demonstrating the Cooley as his divinity not just by something in the distant past but by a present experience the author of these two lines of proofs is data processing and so in Isaiah forty six we read again these these streams coming together remember you're using this or I'm using it in my creation science seminar because I want to invite the people the next week to evangelistic series to look at this Isaiah forty six remember the former things of all front God there is none other I'm got there is none like me declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things that are not yet done saying my counsel shall stand and I will do my pleasure to serve your God is speaking about his prophetic work how there is no one like him he's unique he is divine Isaiah forty four says the Lord the King of Israel and his Marine team are the Lord of host I'm the first time the last beside me there is no God and who as I shall call him declare it set it in order for me since I appointed the ancient people and the things that are coming in shall come let them show unto them I am the Lord that makes all things I stretch forth the heavens I spread abroad the earth I frustrated tokens of liars make the minors may turn Wiseman backward and make their knowledge foolish I confirm the words of my sermon God is saying he performs the counsel of his messengers he says to Jerusalem used to be inhabited cities of Judah you'll be built and then his prophecy in Isaiah forty four Cyrus is continuing on about the drying up of the rivers and Cyrus what is going on here thoughts putting these three streams of thought together but he's the creator is the Redeemer and he is the God who speaks authoritatively through processing is what I what I do when I'm presenting a seminar like this as a look at if you come here to try to help your nonbelievers seem to the God of the Bible is true creation science can be helpful but the whole picture really is helping them to see God in the prophetic word as the authoritative the big God be in Aaron God to Bible prophecy tenants is seeing God as we deem her so where should you start I would suggest it seems a public meeting start with Bible prophecy as a means of reaching your friends with the truth of who God is not help them to trust in the saving God of the Bible so what we do a reasonable time limit is next week and I am up with him I say I don't like to do a creation seminar on glass I know there's something going on in the community this could build on these other two lines with a wonderful series coming up this evening talking about Christ and his saving power it from the context of Bible prophecy to see what you're doing is you're of course not only giving them the creation science message but you're making a bread to be evangelistic meetings are going to the site and I said it's coming right share this love is not the Bible prophecy meetings coming up and it's not something that I apologize and I say that's one doing the seminar is with that in mind because I complete what we need is Christians to be a powerful witness in this day and age we talked about three things the fourth reason why we need to be interested in the something well into the application of biblical position is evolution undermines the reality of Christ's saving work it actually undermines the connection between sin and death think about and many artists seem to stick evolutionists acknowledge that they have this disconnect because how do you put Christ as the one dying for the sins of the world you have how do you say that the wages of sin is death and at the same time said there was sent for millionaire 's death for millions and millions of years before since you see the problem this is from my the book of Doctor Baldwin added creation of creation catastrophe something like that maybe not for Kentucky might be seen this diagram created something creation account creation Calvary in catastrophe something like that but he has some of these illustrations there in the book I think these are all in your on your CD as well and appointing bags is if you believe in the conventional interpretation the geologic column your death before human sin and so there is no causal connection between sin and death and basically then how can you say Christ is dying to pay the wages of sin do you see how that's a disconnect and what did he really die for what they do just to show his love for us the Bible teaches something different yes it does show his love for his powerful but more than that if you believe that the fossil record was deposited by the slide van actually the slide with the global flight is a unifying concept in actually helping us to see that these fossil layers formed by the flood preserve this connection between sin and death is a recent creation in six literal days sin came into that experience because of the choice of Adam and Neve and Christ's atonement is preserved you could also use other arguments in this context the argument for morale any widen cultures all over have the same basic standards of morality why do cultures believe that adultery is bad or the murder is bad often that could be seen as an extension of this concept and the last concept to mention it is the Bible continually links crisis creative power with his re-create of power so there's thinking about this connection between sin and death and the atonement really you undermine create know the whole New Testament is based on his promise to God as Creator you can create you can re-create and have sought what happens we become new creatures we come to Christ so God doesn't have the power to create physical things how can he create new hearts previously were that disconnect is okay let me go onto the fifth point in the services up in about ten minutes and and then go on to other material you probably are actually more interested in this one is that evolution suggests that God is really not trustworthy and in essence that even does away with any of the statements of Jesus how can you believe that what you believe in Jesus when you set I will come again was telling untruths of literal truth if when he spoke about creation he was just speaking figurative usage so you undermine the whole foundations of revelation as basically a question about trusting biblical revelation let's just look at anti- message because I believe that the understanding of true understanding of creation is actually the undergirding for the hall and in this message revelation fourteen -year-old familiar with but remember the context of Revelation fourteen is Christ's imminent coming week to the end of the chapter an easy speaking about the reading of the harvest that's the context of the three Angels messages and when you look at the first Angels message by the way biblical scholars who looked at the structure of the book of Revelation how meaning of the term is often used to describe the structure of the book of Revelation in a kayak stick structure and for those of you who aren't familiar with the classic structure classic structure is based on the Greek letter kind which is I can ask and just like in acts if you come in from either direction comes to a central point in the middle that's the classic structured so the English literature where is the high point of the book typically entered the banana kayak six structure the high point the focal point of the work is where it's in the middle and so scholars even non- Adventist scholars who look at the book of Revelation has seen in it a Chi asked six structure and the sensor of the book of Revelation is actually the first Angels message Doctor Pauline if you want to read about this John Pauline has written about this some of you know him from Loma Linda now but this focal message about the eternal gospel and what is the call that goes out fear God and give glory to him for the hour of his judgment has come and worship him who did what and whom may the heaven earth the sea and the springs of water what is that a court of almost a direct quote axis lying and the only difference is Exodus twenty speaks about what they have in the earth the sea and all that in the mass and revelations as the springs of water by the fountains of waters we think the significance of man's got a fly that languages language is reminiscent of the flooding of the fountains of the great deep bursting forth so in the center of the book of Revelation 's anti- messages calling on people to worship the God of creation and it seems to suggest that creation message is not complete without talking our worldwide global flood very interesting isn't it and so this statement of our origins is being called and it's at the heart of the message not only at the heart of the ten Commandments the Sabbath commandment but it's at the heart of the book of Revelation so really the truth of God 's literal six-day creation is foundational to God 's commandments is foundational to our prophetic understanding of who we are as a people and so God I believe is raising up witnesses today to defend his six day six literal day creation account last thing I want to mention the highlight one other thing afterward that the last thing I'll spent any time with is how a believe in evolution erodes the foundation for health message we talked about this battle bedside is raging and I want to suggest to you that really the foundation for health in the Bible is laid in Genesis so God has a health program in Genesis some of you have have for each store had presented God 's natural remedies for the perspective of Genesis one and two humming and done ninety nine some of you know you can go look at Genesis one and so you finally find their defined in a nutrition you find exercise right you find pure water sunscreen all these elements that we talk about there all there in Genesis but is really based on two promises right that God intended humans to live forever in a provided everything in that garden necessary to foster that eternal myself if you believe you mean Genesis this is all implied in the account right guy would get down an environment that was designed to kill them if you live forever resorts insights it's a very powerful background if you want to give a spiritual father talks about natural therapies and lifestyle medicine so if you take away the historicity of Genesis one eleven when we look at another aspect of this not only to remove the foundations for the biblical message of health I suggest you you remove the underpinnings of God 's optimal lifestyle you see how can people adopt the health message is it just by working hard enough you alternately there's things in our lives that we can't control right natural there's habits that are still interested honoring all we can change them that's my perspective and I sure you can talk with the atheists in the stop smoking program and some atheist smoking it doesn't mean the guy didn't help and stop but they say I never ate knowledge Scott and I got victory over smoking but there are certain things we cannot change without God 's power clearly and certain things we have to the overlay you say we can't do anything without that's power of course we understand the point I'm trying to make without acknowledging his power now if we have to come to him in certain areas of my life so Genesis one to eleven you see that liberal higher critics would say look at were being sprayed from all this we know this historic goal of human thought God used that but it's not really literal wanted to 's if you do away with Genesis one to eleven it actually wheezes with the human works -based health message using the form if we don't have a loving God who created us out of love but at a work through eons of death and suffering of evolution to see what that says that about how we need to get into what is was is and how organisms it had out of humans and we were just work at it harder right the ones that are the strongest they will survive in a few two-week restaurant problem so I'm trying to help us see that this is not just something we can disabled look at its interesting dialogue and the endless church but I don't have to do anything with it because I'm not a geologist now I don't understand all these arguments the God who created is a guy who empowers us to live a whole and healthy life is a God who saves is a guy who speaks authoritatively in his word so evolution every man for himself the conservative you the literal view of inspiration and God is not showing is a path of legalism but it's true freedom in Christ and understanding of the beginnings it upholds the law the law giver and the power of that lawgiver to help us fulfill everything SEC of a loving God who gives a law that loving daughter is in its interface it please committed to help you achieve all that he's asked okay I want to take a little bit of time as we talk mostly about philosophy were to talk about things on the DVD and give you some ideas on what you can do in creation science seminar up of other quick presentations for you and our fifteen minutes or whatever that we have remaining but at this point at a reaction to what we've been talking about any questions anything 's that you want to share at this point this juncture when will give and maybe I should even pass this around to some of you guys really has made his events is a question or a statement to us by concerning the controversy I misread Roger Moore knows should be the supernatural and what was interesting is done he was involved with satanic worship and the demons and Satan referred to God how would you code you just survey how is the creator of the other title form but he goes on to say that the high priest of the Satanic Temple that he was involved with full of the largest counsel architects of the largest counsel that Satan and his angels had held at the beginning of the eighteenth century and that's reading in time strategies were one to convince humans that Satan and his angels did not exist to hypnotism and three the theory of evolution is that those interesting that the big guns of significant time one of those is evolution yet sits so when you look at it again it really does undermine the lasting message God has given to his people and I don't have time to flesh this out for you but I would challenge you with this and that is the mission of God 's last day people who has sometimes been described as the Elijah message and what I would suggest to what Elijah was doing was actually calling people back to God 's Genesis program that if you look at all the reforms you look at the accidents the axis was really calling people back to the Genesis lifestyle of Elijah does the same thing and I these are just quick notes but Don you say will be there a baptism that Elijah is associated with there has to be with the Old Testament Elijah because who is the New Testament Elijah John the Baptist well what kind of baptism was there and Elijah said to me you could be a look at this seminar is a number of baptism baptism by fire of Mount caramel and he and Randy Soliman is different dimensions of this by the Allies to message the reform message guy calling the message that prepares the way for the coming King is a message that includes the Sabbath which is intrinsically tied the gut creating in six literal there when you can't remove that so you can't say no things were created over eons and eons of time and the language of Genesis is so compellingly clear hostile not Michael but his father Gerhard has written one of the most exhaustive papers I've ever read on the theological background for why you you cannot be this exam example after example from the Hebrew why you cannot take any other position with Genesis one and saying in their literal twenty four hour days when losses and will we know the evening in the morning the standard 24-hour day but as in the Hebrews is so clear you can't say that since he has a ton K I may think how in semiotic places nowadays the creation science museum in Kentucky Ken ham has done so much work and has a magazine out in all kinds of lectures and things and when I meet some of the things that he likes about is a huge battle yet is a huge bin on glad you mentioned that can hand in his ministry answers in Genesis because one of his colleagues there is Mike Riddle Mike has allowed us to put all of his presentations on the sun in all that I had access to give me some sources we has posted different PowerPoint so all his presentations are on your things dealing with it is one of the pretty nice when dealing with radiometric dating you know things to explain it to laypeople and just so you don't have to do so much work you have the resources here and you can look through that we've got another point over here so were trying to keep all these microphones circulating I think one reason that people resist the creationist view is that it implies moral responsibility on others an excellent point is an excellent point yes leave the whole mindset that we can just do whatever we please that is removed by the whole evolutionary framework if you guys see that I'm not doing well at keeping this in front of me to one were speaking to you let me know have a comment and a question you very alluded to this but it's similar to subscribe to the theistic evolutionary theory they have to in essence except that the costs of evolution which is not is part of God 's will and that process involves death and destruction all and so that further raises the question cannot be trusted that he would allow such things to happen in fact not real output included as part of his plan I am a question is that when speaking someone who is an atheist and won't even allow the supernatural into his and to stop processes how do you begin to introduce the concept of the creator God when the only lounge the picture in the first place will that's one of suggesting that in example I can tell you that anything ever really came of it but I used to work in a I did some work with a research group in Manhattan Isaacson work-study arrangement large of preventive medicine research group at one of the other investigators who was there was a Jewish fellow we got to be pretty good friends and however I don't know how this all started but one of the things we would often talk about was creation science he was an evolutionist and he was at the time all in all bringing me the latest thing that Stephen Jay Gould had written before he passed away so we we would have dialogue and he I think it was more that that he was kind of intrigued me was honest I think but he was intrigued that someone who I guess he thought I was somewhat intelligent would actually believe this I think a lot of people in the secular world they are in because I know he respected me as so we're doing preventive medicine research but he respected me in that sphere so I think for some people if they don't have contact with with Christians there are actually inquisitive to to be open to hear some of the arguments of creation science annual hear testimonies of people who are evolutionists by the way I should mention this to you if you not familiar with illustrative media bought a lesser media produces creation science DVDs illustrate media and they have Bob one of them may interview a number of evolutionists who have become creationists because of scientific questions were questions were raised in a classroom or by other colleagues that they could so what's it's not that song that they went to a seminar and were converted by just raising the questions are not saying there is no value for doing at the casino this cannot and even for a Christian who believes this is a evolution to help that individuals see the disconnect between biblical revelation and the position Maytag if they're honest desk in a cause semantics and there you have to say you know why how can I harmonize us so so God does work that way as well okay one more comment in a minute to get ready for the next dominant I'll try to decide site what you come up with now come up with me to so that way can hold the mic in front of you on changing the presentation covered should really should be changed to lead from creationism to do something else I creation no something because that is an word seems to indicate a philosophy that's not believable my communism or some other isms in all these isms and I think creationism is been stuck there with us is a movie in the event the perhaps of you remove that it might be a better word will of course appreciate your comment of course that's what some have tried to do with intelligent design but intelligent design does not necessarily reject the millions of years is this is not the necessarily syndicate if you will or support Genesis one so yes you can use other terms and people have done that and I never called creationism I was a creation science is so yes I think that's something to be be aware of so when I'm alone with you now in the last in the time we have remaining are two presentations are you could do yourself based on material on this CD on if you want ask it what I show here I can tend help you with that too as those the things I'm showing you are not on the same day but nine reasons why exam confidence in the biblical creation account this is more what you'd present in a creation science seminar he wouldn't present you know an hour on philosophy I actually did that the first creation seminar I did and that's not what people really wanted to hear so on but I think it's important for us to to be cognizant of that and be aware of it this is a cause that they want to hear you know Sean Pittman is a fellow of physician 's website detecting design how many of them to his website at you you need to go to his website he's got all kinds of excellent material there is other organizations his contact information is on the CD he allowed us to use his output his power points on their geoscience research Institute Doug Davis of power points and Robinson Standish in particular so your contact information websites and things for these various ministries so one thing you can do is take things that are compelling to yield to give you some examples of things are compelling to me that I understand and some things that are that I don't understand that I wouldn't use my foot some of them in this presentation you choose what works for you that you can speak authoritatively about nine reasons and I here's a nine would look at what to talk about that the second law of thermodynamics what some call the myth of stellar evolution the inability to create life irreducible complexity the genetic code the Ministry of gender and age of the geologic column catastrophic nature of fossils and and living fossils so if you're writing taking notes you'll see all this again so the first one is the second law of thermodynamics most of you remember that from my physics our hemisphere where we were first exposed to it and the idea is that order tends to go to disorders a lot of interesting things get more disorganized over time they do not go from disorder to order unless there's some external source of input to the second law of thermodynamics these lives I think her in your on your CD but John this writer says that the second law tends to increase the conviction that there is a Creator who is the answer for the future destiny of man and the universe so normally systems wind down things don't wind up really evolution if you think about it is totally contrary to anything that we we see in nature if you really think of the full implications of kind so God says he is he's the self existent one now this I don't understand so I wouldn't do in a public presentation the last series I I did was when they in earth science teacher in high school teacher I trusted that he was up on some of these things but he talks about the myth of stellar evolution and speaks of the hall no Big Bang very interesting it would be regal one of these sources are the big banks start what was there before the Big Bang well a lot of the sources that was a singularity and on a you need saying it was their source here is saying it's an analog missing was the size of an animal to begin with that all the universe came from something the size of an atom that had all the mass in the universe all concentrated so you might sell his other sources that describe it differently but the point is is not unusual I've seen a number of secular sources and talk about this infinitesimally small massive than the great mass and infinitesimally small place for space so is there some business appealing and business units will only person to even someone like yourself a scientific background does it make sense that a great explosion with particles will be a great speed these particles are attracted to each other and form objects and galaxies and so there in all this discussion about dark energy and dark matter how do you explain something that really doesn't make sense and so what I these are just different models of what's happening the universe everyone says the universe is expanding now what's good happen in the future date today but Don was a lot like to tell people and doing a seminar I say beware of explanations that don't make any sense because it are smart enough I mean really if someone can explain something to you in way that makes sense to say well it on the big guy happiness with the scientists say again I don't understand all the stellar evolution and dialogue I'm not even very cognizant of the pivot even is disturbed people and the science teacher I worked with who studied this a lot more spoke about some of the problems the logical problems if you knowledgeable and this is a great things he uses you're not if you're like me I wouldn't do this in a seminar that I was giving but it's something that many people find compelling here's some quotes that had good menus I think I put his material on your CD nobody understands how star formation proceeds it's really remarkable we don't understand how a single star forms it we want to understand how tenderly and stars for so is very easy to get these global statements about how things evolve how stars evolve how galaxies evolved by he was sharing information with the audience how even intelligent scientists who are deeply involved in the subjects can't explain them whether there is a better explanation I don't know that's what I told you in the first presentation we don't want to do that if I'm not knowledgeable about something I want to find something that looks weak and put those quotes up and have someone who is a you know since assist come up afterward and say you know that guy or that source you cited is a lousy source of me nobody believes that anymore you'll want to do so

Share

Embed Code

Short URL

http://audiover.se/13sX3gO