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Logo of AdAgrA 2019: True Success

Elderberry Production

Renee Vandenberg



  • January 18, 2019
    10:45 AM


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Morning again many I'm sorry Vanderburgh we are from Green Bay Wisconsin. We own and operate a certified organic farm we currently have a small encourage about a quarter of an acre dedicated to all the various But if you have any kind of acreage at all one elderberry bush 1020 elderberry bushes makes a lot of berries the reason we do it is for health benefits. And what you're going to learn today is how to propagate by cutting and routing growing the site selection how to plant harvesting preserving canning and freezing What are your goals how many of you guys here have farms have acreage OK A lot of you could do who here has elderberries to you grow older berries a couple of you call what do you do with them for health OK what are your goals you need to think about that if you're going to plan some elderberries some people just want beautiful edible bushes in their yard and that can be a great reason somebody wants to make enough production for their own family we have enough Bushes that we produce enough juice for our family and our church in one year we get about enough for 2 years of service to our friends so now we're going to be selling a little bit we have a little roadside stand by our farm where we sell asparagus and a couple other things and we're going to be adding elderberry to that. But think about your goals and as you have your goals figured out you can figure out your site selection if you have a yard you can find a place in your yard where you can plant and elderberry bush it is best if you have 2 of them although they are self pollinating most of varieties are so it's not absolutely necessary to have 2 but it would be better for pollination and for larger berries this is the 1st place where I planted elderberries and I have 15 Bush's in the area probably from here to the end of the wall and that is way too many they go in and they're this big and you put them 5 feet apart 4 feet apart you're like liking it more in there and then they grow and that's my biggest problem with everything anything in my garden I have always forgot that things grow and get big so they intertwined and I had 2 different varieties there I had Johns and I had wild wooden Adams and so now I have no idea which is which because they root or go up from rhizomes and they come up and so not just completely intertwined it's very very hard to pick berries here because of stuff to the right is raspberries and the raspberries have actually gone in and they're really pokey So it's really hard to get on that side and the other side is the asparagus so the ferns have fallen over so these have gotten the the row is at least 7 feet wide so you need to really do a good job on figuring out site selection this is a 2nd place that I planted elderberries and I was going to make sure that time I got them far enough apart which I did but then they haven't grown together very well. This is a part of the rest of my garden and that's a hay field on the other side. It's a little too far apart so there isn't like an area here where it's good for production the problem with this on this garden is it's on the north and the west side so as the old berries get to be 6 or 8 feet tall they're going to shade out my garden so you have to look for a couple hours of the day anyway so you want to look in get a real nice place. I call that my kneeling garden because everything I do in there is on my knees and every time I'm down there that's like when I'm really thinking about God my standing gardens I just look at how beautiful everything is and it makes me think of the Lord but the kneeling garden when I'm down on my hands and knees with my fingers in the dirt that's when I really feel the closest gardening with God. This is one of our new places it's on a hillside it's very hard for us to farm we can't get in there real easily with our machinery so my husband said I could have it because he doesn't want it it's on a hillside we went along we mowed the hay down we got real close dug holes and when we planted these I'll go a little more into planting later we made nice big holes put lots of organic compost into there this actually is a clay Hill when we had our our manure pit dug when we had we had up until 2005 but when they did dig our manure pit we had a lot of clay that they didn't know where to go with and manure pits it is about 200 feet by 200 feet by 20 feet deep so that was a lot of dirt we had to find a place for so that's what we made this hill it's now producing after 20 years it's producing fairly well but still not up to the rest of the farm and that's one of the reasons why we chose this place elderberries are not real high feeders they don't demand a lot of care and they don't demand a lot of fertiliser if you want to make sure your soil is balanced but if they get what they need the really produce well but they're not like things that require more when you're propagating you want to decide if you want to go with hardwood cuttings or green wood cuttings we do green wood cuttings in the summer because they're easier to propagate the red a lot better the it's green and growing and they seem to just kind of take off this is a hard wood cutting I'm going to pass some of these around hardwood cuttings can be taken in the winter they can be shipped they can be mailed they can be kept in the refrigerator as long as you don't get them warm they won't sprout But as you guys go around just take a look at these and you'll see that these are about to Bud stage. This is what we do in January will go out and he had to take the chains on a couple of them I was so afraid of pruning so afraid of pruning that I actually left my older berries go for 4 years and I got a stump that was about this big and I got plants that were like 14 feet tall and I was so thrilled I thought it was going to get so many elderberries that year but the plant put all the energy into grown that wood and it didn't grow very many berries for me so I was very very disappointed and after that I had to remember just don't be afraid cut them down they'll come back but this is how we gather the sticks we go out in the winter when the plant is completely dormant and I don't know if you can really see here the big Actually back in there the really really big stump that we took out elderberry is most productive and 2nd and 3rd year would so what you do is after it's it'll get it's one plant in the middle start to make shoots settle come up the 1st woods as you're looking at these as they go around. This is probably only 2 year old wood this the little ones you'll see is going to be one year old wood sometimes you'll get them I had a special one here that was hollow it's probably going around as you look at the end if you find a hollow one those are ones you don't want to use I think he can even see the howl onus on this one. That's just not going to have enough nutrition The question is does. The question is do you need to do any propagation if you're going to have one in your yard the answer to that is no you don't need to propagate but you do need to prune so if you can find someone who wants your sticks that's a great use of them but as you go through your sticks you need to be very careful to pick out ones that are going to be viable. We gather the sticks in the House and the garage will go through them and will pull off all the dead ones and those we put in the wood burner the rest of them will take into the house the good long straight ones are the ones that seem to propagate a little bit better than 2 but a little bit better they're not going to if you'll see the ones you're looking at now the have little buds on them and they're going to feel a little bit swollen. They came on the airplane they were in the hotel room normally I would have kept them frozen and cold or at least in the refrigerator but now with all this travel they've kind of come to bugs well stage but after we cut out the bad ones the dead ones. Don't play a dead sticks the 1st year I did this I cut all those bushes down and I planted about 150 of them and they were all dead sticks and I didn't know you were supposed to look for the green so every every single one of them failed so look for a little bit of green on the side you can take your fingernail when those are coming around and kind of look at the green that's in there. When you do plant them as you're looking at them you're going to see the little nodes most of them will definitely have a little up to him some of them go straight out and it's kind of hard to see but if you plant them upside down they won't grow those proto little bit of green and they'll just die so you always want to plant with this end up and you can see the little buds wells on there these are all coming out that's how I used to plant them all in each pot because what I do so a lot of the plants off of our little stand out front I don't sow so many of the berries I kind of like to teach people how to grow it themselves instead of making juice for them this would be one of the ways that I would put them in any kind of plastic anything. You don't necessarily want it to drain you don't want to get waterlogged but you're going to use whatever kind of container you choose and there can be a little buds Well there can be a little green that comes out of the ones on the bottom and you cover it with your growing medium whatever you choose to use I use coconut core worm castings perlite but the one that I use a most now is leaf mold or leaf mulch and we get tons of leaf mulch from the city and we use that So you put your plants in it and make sure it stays moist and they should spoil it for you I don't put them in water you know this is not water this is just a plain plastic dish it had something in it some salad and so I use and the other one is it like a mushroom container then they add the soil after yes so that's the one without the soil and that is the one with the soil and eventually put soil in the other one. The question is is it just potting soil and you can use pot is so if you want although I don't think that that's the best when you get potting soil sometimes it'll make a little roots and then you kind of rip those roots out of there so I use things that is looser like perlite or coconut core or the leaf mold OK but you can use if you're doing them one at a time and you're not going to be pulling them out of the dirt then you can do anything you want and then potting soil is good then plant them in something that they want to be in rooting hormone. Occasionally OK rooting hormone we are certified organic farm and because of that reason I there is no such thing that I have found as a rooting hormone at least a commercial reading hormone that is organic so I don't use them there are kinds you can make by soaking in Willow. Willow shoots and stuff like that if you look on line you can find all those recipes for that kind of thing but I don't generally use it. But routine hormone that would be your personal choice by the time you were going to get any berries off of these that rooting hormone is going to be gone but if you would choose to use a reading hormone you would just dip it at the end whether it's liquid or powder dip the end and then put it in your mitts in your reading material this is when I used to do it in water almost every single one would sprout and I for some reason they just don't like the water they don't like to be propagated in the water and even if they do and you do get a good road system in there they're going to end up being weaker roots so that's why I use that some kind of growing medium now. I do it in a shoe box I've tried all different kinds of things I'll just put if I have like those ones to the rate there are all kinds of scraps from cutting ones that I knew had no Dhanam And so I just threw in a box and cut lined the box with a garbage bag so it would stay waste and then put the growing medium on top of it and a lot of them spotted like that when I get sprouts like this that's about when I plant them it can be a little bit longer if you if you want if you keep them dark they'll stay white if you keep them on the porch and it's cool they won't go real fast if you start to put them in a warmer place they'll start to grow a lot quicker. The question is Where do you do this in. Oregon So yes you could put it in your grass that won't slow it down very much in Wisconsin it was slowed down a lot and that's I guess what I meant by where the garage is depending upon how cold the cold are you don't want to refreeze them there is usually more than one leafnode on the inside of this but it's a lot of energy to get those out so you want to get it on the 1st flush. There is no reason why this time of year you can't start potty in them. They'll just grow in a pot and till they're ready to put outside and I don't know what your winter is like exactly here but there are some places where they could even plant them in January like Texas and South of myself personally I'd wait until the last frost. This is another way that I've done it is lay everything flat down in a box these are bigger sticks i Phone when you put the big sticks in a single pot they're not quite as good as the little sticks in a single pot so I'll lay them down the paper towel roll back there is to kind of get them on an angle like this not that they have to be but it can to get some tipping up so I know for sure which way is up then I'll put my growing medium on the top of them and just close it up like it is on the right and just leave it and I'll check it like once a week to make sure that there's an oyster in there and as long as there are more iced. You should get sprouts once we plant them I can be used to give up too soon can you guys see way down here this stick it had a shoot and that died and then see this little thing right there that's another one coming up a lot of times I give up too soon. Also tend to water a little bit too much they like the soil damp but not really wet I think I even have you can probably use you have a saw a little bit wetter on that one than it should be but just you know pray over them that's huge for me because elderberries are a little bit difficult to propagate I tried to buy some bushes at my local nursery and the one thing that he did say is we don't sell those there too hard to grow once they've grown You can't kill them. Yes. OK so that's what some of those that's a piece of. I called. The one the kinds that are on the backs there not sticks like this that have the perfect inodes on them but I would throw all my junk cuttings into the box and a lot of times I get in like this and it's just one more one more plan to get to share with somebody once they're going pot I'm up I keep them out of my porch my porch in Wisconsin starting in about March it really doesn't freeze out there anymore we have a little heater from the house that runs out their elderberries have some sort of antifreeze in their leaves and they really can handle a lot of frost but when they're young and tender you'd like to be as careful as you can with them you get them potted up and then they're ready to go outside by the time spring is there. The zone ranges from 3 to 9. Last year from Texas I gave a lot of them to people who lived in Texas and the answer was a pretty much the same there it's OK it was fine while it was inside and then it died when I put it outside and I think that in that 1st year you really need to tend them you really need to be careful you need to water them you don't want to let them dry out if you live in a more arid area they also don't like to be have really really wet feet you have to have well drained soil but if you have well drained soil they tolerate lots of different kinds of soil we have very heavy clay in Wisconsin so we have to build up and make sure they're kind of on a hill so they can run away this is what they look like if you put them individually and you'll think you know you have a lot of wonderful elderberries growing I'd say probably 9 out of 10 will get to the stage after the stage for some reason I've had when I pop them individually about 40 percent luck so when I'm trying to do a couple 100 at a time I don't want to take the space to pop them like this but if you're going to take one or 2 or 5 or 10 home you've got lots of room and might as well do it this way it's just as good as the laying down methods that a. The question is the varieties I have there they said. Exact answers that is I'm not positive but they are black elderberries black North American elderberries. This is the lead in that are used for them once they don't need a ton of light so I find them that they're OK on my porch with just the natural light coming in we do have a couple of these stands where we'll put some of them like I have a real small one that and that thing is just going to be a super Bush I might put it inside for a while and put it under the lights but other than that when they get a little bit bigger outside in the porch is just fine I've actually had a few of them potted they're the ones I did not sell last year and I didn't have time to put in my own field we've left them on the porch for 2 years and they've been fine we have in Wisconsin up in the river that goes into the Green Bay we have a car problem so they love it when the fishermen go out and both fish carp and they didn't have anything to do with their fish so we started getting in little you know one person at a time that would come in with their 50 pounds or 55 gallon bucket of fish and all of us when we started getting approached by these tournaments will you take our fish and much to my dismay my husband said yes the stuff is pretty smelly but we compost pile behind of that black pile is leaf leaves that we get from the city the city will actually bring us out some by trucks or dump trucks full of leaves because they don't have a place for everything and we compost them with the fish on the right is another line that's going to be another garden we put the compost down it's going to kill all the grass in a year we're going to move it off and that's going to be another garden area but between the compost of the leaves and the fish the picture doesn't do it justice but this stuff is so crumbly and so nice and so fertile I've built almost my whole garden almost my only raised beds out of it and then we put this around and inside the dirt when we plant the elderberries as well. We talked a little bit about site selection when I dig I kind of read through Ellen White's method of planting trees and I thought for a Bush it should probably be about the same thing so that's how we did know a hole that's 3 times as big of a pot this big isn't the same as digging a tree but we make them very large we've put natural dirt inside to everything that we that we should have according to her method planted them in straight lines this is our 1st row on what's going to be several rows but you can see the little string here you guys know how to use a string to make straight rows. Everyone's left. It well we have Baylor's trying lots of dealers trying to round our house so we just take a you know 100 foot piece of Baylor's twine and go from state to state and run the string tight and then we can plant right underneath it does anybody know what this is. Yeah I was so surprised when I walked in there I was like. You can see him down here he's just he's just going to town and these leaves he's just you get to cinched Now I had one and that's it we don't of course spray for anything. I picked him up and I took him down to the creek and I said I'm in the creek so hopefully he can eat something down there. But that's really the only time we've ever had a pest as far as that goes and he couldn't eat enough as Biggest he is and this thing was this big he could not eat enough to even put a dent in the elderberries. This is our other guy. I had no idea what was eating my. My everything in the garden and so we put up their cameras. As I go he's there so we have a couple of these that bowls as well that will dig holes they stay pretty far away from the elderberries for whatever reason they go down to the regular garden but we have had a couple of of mice or voles or whatever tunnel under the old barriers we just fill it in and they tend to go away but the biggest problem is the birds. The day before I had lots of elderberries on that plant and the birds just came and kind of ate them all but other than that you really have not very many problems with pests or diseases at least in our climate and I can't speak to any of their climate that's warmer lots of stuff in Wisconsin dies in the winter because it gets pretty cold so you can use I tried last year to use bird netting if you're going to use bird netting you have to set up some kind of a frame around it because the 1st time I threw the burden it in over there it went over all the heads of the berries and this is a pick the bird netting up all the birds just went flying off so it really didn't do any good but some sort of a rock or something to keep it over those couple days you could even probably put a sheet over them if you wanted to but it's just like there's just that one day when they turn right then the birds just know it as with just about everything else after you've picked all your berries what we do. There's we like to get them frozen like to keep them you know as frozen as quickly as we can they don't last real long. So we'll take a will pick them we'll put them in the boxes will bring them in the kitchen will run some off wash them all and set them upside down on towels and sometimes we'll run a fan on them to dry them off a little bit quicker I don't have a picture of a lot of the stuff I didn't really know I was going to be doing this during the time we were harvesting and everything but we'll take a big silver bowl and we'll just put the heads here here here here get all the stems up into the middle throw that in the freezer and we'll get them all frozen and once they're frozen you can take a fork or your fingers and just slide the frozen berries off of the heads because if you had to pick every one of those little berries off by hand you'd smushing need to lose 80 percent of the juice before you ever gotten picked. The question is Is it a problem leaving the stems on impressing I would not do that I have heard that there is I don't I say Paxson I don't know how poison it is actually is but I know it will give you a stomach ache if you eat them raw and I would not leave the stems on myself you can do research the statement is that this young gentleman says that the Sens can be very toxic and I believe you also raw so make sure you cook them before you eat them in one way or the other and remove as much of the stems as you can when you freeze them and knock them off you're still going to get little pieces of stem one more thing that we do if we want to get rid of some of that as once they're frozen they come out you have a minute bucket or a BIG will roll across a big cookie sheet and the berries are still frozen in the roll and the little teeny tiny pieces a STEM they won't roll because they saw out a lot quicker than the berries do the berries are bigger and elderberry stocks also have some sort of antifreeze and I don't know what I'd put in there to make them that freeze but they don't freeze as much as the berries so if you roll him across a cookie sheet a lot of the little teeny pieces a stem will stick and just the berries will come through theoretically. OK. Once we get the berries frozen we can can we usually do our canning in the winter because it's there's just no time on the farm in the in the summer the fall we're trying to put away as many tomatoes as we can and hay and everything else so we usually do this in the winter. You can bring it up to boiling that's how I process everything that I brought here like this all of this pure elderberry duces been processed over to 12 it was brought to boiling and can if you have your elderberries at home and you want to make it in something that you know when you're going to use it you can bring it only up to I believe it's 165 or 185 whichever you're comfortable with and that will save a lot of the flavonoids for how long I don't know the answer to that question I don't know the question was for how long are you supposed to bring it up 265 I can't answer that question I don't process it that way OK So we bring it up to boiling and then we put it into the jars with a teaspoon of pure organic lemon juice in each one of the little half pints so although it's pure Elsberry juice there is a little bit of lemon juice in there just for food safety and to add a little bit of acidity. One teaspoon for each have pint The question was how much lemon juice and at the end of the day this is what you get we can do about 60 jars before we came. It was quite a production for a little kitchen in Wisconsin we have something called the pickle law where you can process under $5000.00 worth of goods in a year and sell them without a commercial kitchen as long as you market and that's what's on here you have to mark your products I don't know what your state's laws are but we have to market as this product was made in a private home not subject to state licensing or inspection and then it has the ingredients on after that which is elderberry and lemon juice so that's what we need to do to be able to sell it at our little roadside stand or here at the conference. But in reality. This is what it looks like when you're doing. A probably looks a little more like your kitchen I wasn't going to I took that beautiful picture I cleaned up and I said you know what that's what. I mean because because I look at everyone's gardens when they take a picture of the guy everybody only takes a picture on the day they read it but the Says reality. OK So this is our recipe that we use. I've tried to get a lot of different recipes and find out how you reconstitute elderberry juice to have some kind of idea how much you take it it's a real difficult thing to figure out if you guys ever used or heard of Sam because that they sell in the store. I believe it's approximately 32 percent elderberry duce lots of sugar water and a couple other things in there. You can make elderberry duce to 100 percent but I don't myself personally I've cooked it that way a lot with the berries like this with enough water to cover and I feel like 2 cups of berries should make about a cup of juice that's just my feeling when I want to use this stuff we actually didn't have enough juice to to make enough to bring here to the conference we have a place where we can purchase it from an organic farmer in Iowa and what they do is they freeze dry their berries and then they have some drip ins that come off of that as they're freeze dry in it and that's what we use for the stuff that we have here at the conference and that is absolutely 100 percent so I figured out kind of a little percentage to try and get it the same as that so that you know what you're taking because if people go and throw you know 6 cups of water on top or 2 cups of berries it's still going to be dark purple but it's not going to have as much kick to it so this is the the surf recipe that we use to take about a tablespoon you can take a teaspoon or tablespoon for preventative and a tablespoon 45 times a day when you're sick I'm not sure what the chemistry is in it but there's something in the elderberry that stops viruses from replicating So if you take elderberry juice and take it off and because it doesn't stay in your system a real long time like taking 5 tablespoons in the morning is not the same as taking one tablespoon throughout the day so take it as often as you can it will help keep that virus from replicating and hopefully you won't get sick that all started my daughter I had one that went to public school and she bit her fingernails and every time she came home with a cold we just line up the aisle the very deuce because we knew we were all going to get sick. And I'm sorry that was someone comet It was called Little and it attaches to the virus yes. The statement is to take it every hour even instead of every several hours to droppers full Oh and the honey. If you get it in a jar like this and then you want to reheat it or if you're if you don't make it immediately off of your berries from from being frozen you want to warm it up a little bit so that your honey will melt it's a good idea to use your own local honey that has of all your own allergens and stuff in it the this do so they make weave they say it'll last 2 months in their fridge or it or I don't trust that I have had it in the refrigerator for a month I've actually had it in the refrigerator for 3 months and then of a sudden it was starting to turn into wine I don't think it'll spoil but it will for mental little bit. So. I think that that's a good 3 months now as far as re freezing it we do we rephrase it if I was to make some out of this and I only did half of it I would freeze the pier do so without the honey in it so that I could just like the little ice cubes and put in little glass containers something like that so it's ready for the next time you get a cold and canned like this they're good for they say they're good for 18 months I used to be a year they have a little better canning taps now so now they're saying it's 18 months but once the seal is broken then that that's all gone you have to freeze it or do something to preserve it. The health benefits there's people here that would even know more about the health benefits than I would. Know is when my kid would come home with a cold it would keep the rest of us from getting it and have her not get it as bad. The flavonoids you need to cook at a lower temperature to preserve them it has anti-viral and anti-bacterial the anti-bacterial not as much as the anti-viral but the honey helps with the enter viral as well and it's a huge boost to the immune system you can research the benefits for yourself to see if it fits into your lifestyle and you're your plan the only thing I've heard about problems besides the digestive problems if you eat either the raw berries or if you eat the stems is that if you have an auto immune disease because it will really boost your immunity and if you have some sort of an auto immune disease it might make that inflamed OK. I feel like. Tending the older berries a spiritual every time I go out in the garden and I look at how pretty they are the flowers in the spring and the berries and I just think I can just find myself thanking God that I have this opportunity to do this when we share with other people it's also a great opportunity to share the blessings we've had we have a number of people that come through our farm in the summer and also we have gardening classes in the fall and. It's a wonderful way to share what you've what you've done what you know how to do and it doesn't matter what you know how to do as far as farming gardening anything when you share what you're doing that has to do with the outside outdoor lifestyle with it vary and lifestyle your blessing to everybody I just can't believe that people walk up to me and say oh how do you do that or how do you whatever I can't you know you're so lucky to live on this farm and all these different words people say to me I'm like See this is just my life you know it's what we've always always done and my husband was born on the farm his grandma had the farm so we're going to be what's called a century farm in another 3 years I know some people have talked about knowing your land after 97 years we nor land fairly well and that's that's a really good place to be at the same time it keeps you a little bit attached but when people come in and say you know this is so much different I have to remember what it was like myself growing up in town and it is quite a bit different I didn't move out until the country until I was 18. OK if you if you can get your county extension isn't to come out and help you identify Otherwise you can look from books but the rule of thumb is if they're black they're OK and if they're red they are not red elderberries are poisonous have I had any success with green wood cuttings. Yes in the summer we'll take the green wood will cut it and will rot that it usually is pretty successful probably a little more so than the hardwood cuttings but the green wood cuttings can't travel they like sunshine so you can have full day sunshine if you want I've also seen them grown successful on the side of a garage where they only have a half a day of sunshine so I think it all have to do with you know how much production a little more sunshine a little more production when you started out the 1st year you want to pick off the flowers because you want the plant to have more energy to go into the roots you can use those fires as a something I forgot to say as well the flowers when you drive them you can use them for a tea and they also have the same medicinal benefits as the juice probably not as potent but they still but they still do and they're pretty nice so the 1st year you pick up all the flowers dry them for tea the 2nd year your was going to be a little bit thicker the 2nd and the 3rd year of your of your plants is the most productive that they're going to be by the time they go to the 4th year you should be pruning them back OK The question is how far apart do you plant them depending upon how much room you have anywhere between 6 and 10 feet. At 6 feet they will grow together if you want to hedge at 10 feet it'll take a lot of years for them to grow together so I plant mine in the field of 10 feet so it's easier to pick. The question is was the Caterpillar the only pest pressure the answer is in our Yes that was all there was I know that in other places they have certain kinds of fungus or whatever that in general the elderberry is very resistant to any kind of pest or or disease pressure at our place the deer do not bother but we have it right next to apple trees and plum trees which the deer just love I'm not going to use the word rhizome because I I'm that techno that like raspberries are rhizomes but this when it roots it will send a root out and it will grow up from the rut if that makes it arise ohm then it is OK The question I believe is how deep do you plant them if I had a stick like this. And I had it in a pot this deep I would just still planted at the pot level I wouldn't take a stick like this and planted it in a pot that big OK you want to give lots of room for the rats if I had one this big now this one has 1234 no than it I'm going to plant this to here and so this is how deep I would plant this one I might pick off the leaves at the top the other thing you can do is once you have them laying down like this one with the 4 nodes if I would have happened to lay this down and I would have some of these coming up this way I would plant it like this in the ground I would even pot it like this if I had room for it but these longer sticks Unfortunately with some of these they're very very fast growing there's a lot of room in between the know those and you get a lot fewer cuttings that look like this then look like this OK so these 2 you can lay down flat and plant if you like you can put your dirt level and anywhere right you can planted as deep as you want as long as these are roots but if your if your top green dies and you have green coming out of here and a root coming out of there I still leave the stick on but then I'm planting it down here OK if you don't want to bury your green and if this is the only place that you have green from or you don't want to bury all of your grain you can bury some of it yes so the question is does it need sun while they're sprouting and the answer is No it does not need sun you can sprout some like those little white spots that you saw they can just stay white and that's not an issue as long as it has enough nutrition in it stick to get itself going you know once they start falling over something like that or if they get I've already planted them with ones this long and those are that was way too long as it was looking for sunshine this media was brought to you by audio verse a website dedicated to spreading God's word through free sermon audio and much more if you would like to know more about the universe or if you would like to listen to more service please visit W W W. 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