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New Look at the Sabbath

Clifford Goldstein
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Clifford Goldstein

Editor of the Adult Sabbath School Ministries Quarterly

Conference

Recorded

  • January 1, 2010
    9:30 AM
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father again we come to you now in the name of Jesus I thank you for the opportunity to be here and I just pray for the presence and power of your spirit in the name of Jesus I ask Amy to start out some verses Hebrews four nine through eleven domain is therefore a rest of the people of God for in that first in that he is entered into his rest he is also ceased from his own works as God did from his let us labor therefore to enter into that rest lest any man fall after the same as example of unbelief Hebrews four nine through eleven ago I recently had a discussion with someone from the mine was getting ready to leave the Adventist church as I said in one of my meetings yesterday you know I first joined the church thirty years ago you usually hear this thing nobody ever leaves the church over doctrine they leave all or are you now personal issues without I said it's a mix people do leave the church over Doctor I mean it's it's out of other words more now than it used to be here whether because you got the Internet he got more communication and all but I get all people are leaving over doctrine now that was surprising though in this case is stronger wasn't over the usual stuff that people 's would leave over it wasn't over eighteen forty four in the judgment which he remembered many years ago there was a big poop law over that I don't think there's such a good lover and I knocked I think you got a hold overall that doesn't care one way or not it which is so good but that's that's another sermon was an Alan Wiley which is a common one it wasn't over prophecy it was surprising you would know the name I told you the guy that and so happy and he's solid as a rock now but it was a little scary there for a while I pretty much assumed he was a loss means gone and I just stayed in touch with them to be friends with him and not but anyway that he was going to leave over was over the center surprisingly enough usually over the Sabbath and in recent years there has been a movement of those who were once part of us who have broken away and before long they do abandon the Sabbath I think there's a number of reasons that they want to get rid of it I think there's a number of reasons but I think mostly because they want to be part of the mainstream evangelical movement you want to be part of the mainstream or whatever add keeping the Sabbath keeper you know you're not going to fit in and I think of a number of churches in the area where I live there was an avid pastor named Richard Fredericks he broke away right I gave my favorite when he first broke away he told I did all the people the Sabbath is sacrosanct never to change I predicted in four years he would be a Sunday keeper I was wrong about two years already Sunday keeping this Clay pack Colorado I used to know Clay these broke away Sunday keeping church not marked in Arizona broke away Sunday keeping church did our last laugh Arizona broke away Sunday search now usually either things whatever drive them away okay but they all eventually great and they hit the Sabbath as well and before long they throw out the Sabbath and it's not just ask Adventists as well deal with some of this stuff it's some many evangelicals have been writing against the seventh day Sabbath as well and they been doing it for years but in recent years I've noticed that it's more than the it's much more sophisticated the argument against the Sabbath it's much more than the usual Jesus changed the Sabbath to Sunday or Paul changed the Sabbath to Sunday or we don't need to keep the ten Commandments anymore but I have other arguments against it a bit more sophisticated and the gist of the argument as I understand the gist of their argument as I understand it because it's never quite totally made a whole lot of sense to me that the argument goes like this are truly blessed is found in Jesus and his completed work for office because our rest has been fulfilled in Christ the seventh day Sabbath assembly of the old covenant has been superseded and thus abolished and it is now a legalistic work that robs us of the new rest that Christ offers us in the new covenant doctrine of grace okay now that's my best understanding without trying to caricature it I think most of them who would would say yeah that pretty much explains that position that's essentially the argument as I said is a lot more sophisticated than Jesus changed the Sabbath to Sunday or Paul change the Sabbath to Sunday which you know you don't know that I know better than that certainly the ex- Adventists know better than that okay so the argument is been that the Sabbath has been superseded by Jesus and I'll rest in him and what he is gone you'll done for us more and more even among evangelicals this is the argument that being hurts I think even some of the evangelicals are catching on their catching on as saying in all this the obvious I mean you read the Bible where does Jesus shaves the Sabbath the saga of the word is Jesus you really read the Gospels Jesus as many a full-time teaching people how to keep the Sabbath and I'll knock him out nowhere changing it in changing the date so he will be the then non- Adventists are doing it as well DA Carson is a well-known evangelical writer he edited a whole book that argued essentially against the Sabbath he argued against the Sabbath claiming that Sunday quote is a new day of warship that was chosen to commemorate the unique salvation historical event of the death and resurrection of Christ damn it sounds pretty sophisticated and as I said it's better than Jesus changed the Sabbath to Sunday let me read it again the sets Sunday is quote a new day of warship that was chosen to commemorate the unique salvation historical event of the death and resurrection of Christ now right off the bat there are a couple of big problems with this as we know just to review I mean the Sabbath is old covenant you know runs into a problem because as we all know will him existed before there was a covenant you know before the release was a covenant with man you got the eternal covenant between God and in all and and and and and and the somebody Genesis two one three zero three that the heavens and earth were finished and all the host of them and on the seventh day again this is free fall Reis Inc. on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made and he rested on the seventh day from all the work which he had made and God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it because that in it he rested from all the work which he created in May again just for starters right off the bat yelled at five years the Sabbath exclusively to the Jews exclusively to the old covenant is you know is to is not quite right when it existed prior to the Jews when it existed prior to any of God 's covenants with people and also you got the University of the Sabbath seen here it's right here at the start of the human race right before there were any religious or political divisions it was right there at the beginning along with marriage which was used as universal at the Sabbath as the Sabbath I mean you see the universality of year there are some Jews who do understand that we do understand that the Sabbath really was you made for all people now there is some traditional Judaism they think is blasphemy for non-Jews to keep the Sabbath but others can understand Martin Buber a Jewish scholar once wrote about the universality of the Sabbath they went at the bottom line is as we all know this nothing really new here you've got the Sabbath instituted before the old covenant before the fall all the force before anything is fair it's just it's about as far back as you can get it's about as fundamental as you can get it God is the creator pointing to God is the creator and meet its no German philosopher once asked the question why is there something instead of nothing minutes about his fundamental questions you gas why is there something instead of nothing while their something instead of nothing because God created it and the sound stands as the universal and then he and he is just as bad as far back in creations you can go to McDonald's get behind the Sabbath is the get the God himself as he is the creator and then you got the Sabbath okay you got that pairs I think right off the bat back on the news that argument of of much power and then there's the need to chisel out the fourth commandment from the Decalogue while somehow leaving all the others and placed me on sure we've all had this experience we did talk about the Sabbath and they say well you know we don't need to keep ten Commandments anymore we don't need to when and of course you ask him a few questions and you realize they don't really believe that you know when and so on and so forth somehow all the others are firmly in place but this one but one which just happened to exist before sin the only one is the only one that has been taken out replaced by Sunday that's when I found all the other nine remain while the other nine remaining but somehow this one commandment is pulled out so it's really just nine commandments on a Sunday which you know somehow or another they believe in their areas finding recently that some of these Commandments days in America ten Commandments days in American I've often thought why are these people pushing for the ten Commandments when they don't really believe in all ten and I promote a law contained in containing a fundamental precept that has long been nullified you know about that on why is that of pushing for the ten Commandments to dump the advocate for the public posting of the other nine in the fourth commandment is being replaced as Carson said as quote the new day of warship that was chosen to commemorate the unique salvation historical event in death and resurrection of Jesus to them saying the satellite nine Commandments and I will have the missing Monday recommend you know commanding the new day of worship that has been chosen for the unique yarn and on and on but they don't do that don't just talk about the ten Commandments as I said these are basic problems at most of us know with the Sabbath but there's another one another one that's just as big but I only thought about recently as I was talking to this guy who was on the edge of leaving Memphis I thought for sure he was gone I thought moms can to try to keep communication open with him but we got the scope read the fourth commandment Exodus twenty eight through twelve remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy six days thou shalt labor at all I work with the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord by God and that thou not shall not do any work you your son your daughter your manservant your maidservant nor the cattle within thy gates sure this with a stranger within my gauge that ties a ride in for in six days the Lord made heaven near the sea and all that in that is and the Lord blessed the seventh day and how may we all know this ravenous we know this very well as ironic here we'll get to that is what does this tell us to do it tells us not to work it tells us in a sense did show out it tells us to arrest we are sans our daughters are servants are animals even the stranger among us it's all about West the Sabbath is about resting it's about not working about not striving whatever now here's the point here's the point it's so incredibly simple it's so incredibly simple and yet I I I don't know I never thought of it before you know here is the one commandment is the one commandment that devoted to rest the one commandment that expresses West the one commandment that gives us a special opportunity to rest how is it that the one commandment that's all about the rest has suddenly been turned into the new covenant universal symbol of salvation by works can you see the point can you see the point the one commandment that is all about by its nature is all about West is the one commandment that a son when you keep it your suddenly accused of trying to work your way to heaven can you see the irony that the article one command mean that you know the way Paul Harding you're being legalistic to turn her in your way to have anonymous internal working right and my key and headed in the iron the one commandment that's all about rest is the one commandment that has suddenly become the metaphor for salvation by works I mean what what is wrong with this picture here I mean far from being a symbol of works the Sabbath is the Bible 's overarching symbol of the rest that God 's people have always had in him it's a symbol of the rest that we have in him from the preflight web of Adam he added amenities in to the new covenant rest that God 's followers have an Christ's work of redemption for the Sabbath is a real time manifestation of the rest that we do have in him Jesus is come unto me all that you labor and are heavy laden and I will give you rest take my yoke upon you and learn of me for I am meek and lowly of heart for you shall find rest unto yourselves for my yoke is easy and my burden is light he will give us that rest and that West finds its explanation its expression in the keeping of the fourth commandment seek any one can say here's the thing I said anyone can say that their resting in bed they are resting in Christ anyone can say that they are they are they are resting in Christ's works for them but then and that they are saved by grace and that Christ's work is save them but the keeping of the Sabbath is a visible extortion it's a visible expression of the rest that we have in Christ I living parable of what it means to be covered by grace are equally west from secular work stands as a symbol of all arrest in the works that Jesus has done for us please see the point here and I said and you were saying to my friend never forget the moment I'll never forget the moment when I was with this guy and we were talking and I was pretty sure that point was a long evening we were to lose him I forget he was caught up into this new covenant Reston Jesus knew cutting grace are rest is in him our Sabbath rest is in him remember I said to him I said I said but yet but the sound is how I will delete its blasts I weekly its brass the rest that I have been Jesus by being able to specifically rest on the Sabbath day I even thought about it I just said it in his eyes lit up and he said wow I like that I never thought of that and you're not enough and I think that moment began were slowly but surely not about a few weeks later he colonies as you know I've been studying this and I think I'm coming down on your side and now he's a teacher at one of our colleges and easy to engrave anything he's become quite quite conservative and he's always one extreme or the other I can come on compounds at how little here you know found out a little here out and set out for the plaintiffs it is the symbol of all rest in what Jesus has done for us again anybody can save the rest in Christ but the sound really gives you an opportunity to truly rest to shower to shower away not just saying we believe in the rest we trust in Christ enough in what he's done that we can take one seventh of our lives and rest in the Lord for he that entered into his rest has also ceased from his own works as God did from his Hebrews four nine that's a direct reference to the creation to West are resting in God and if that's not pointing to the Sabbath of creation what is she ought be our obedience to the Sabbath commandment is a way of saying hey were so sure of our salvation in Jesus so far insecure in what Christ has done for us that we can in a special way less from our works because he know what Christ has accomplished as we know what Christ has accomplished for us through his death and resurrection significant turn the tables on that argument we can turn the tables on that argument and say you gets you say you're resting in Christ we have a visible expression and manifestation of the rest we get to enjoy it every week in the Sabbath commandment the Sabbath is a very real very expressive very visible expression and manifestation of the rest that we have in Jesus as I said we just don't have to say we can express it in a real way it was yellow it seemed logical it would seem logical to say to someone it would seem logical to say to someone that by adhering to the commandments against adultery when your child work your way that go against stealing why you legalist your child work your way to heaven or covetousness and idolatry I mean we could logically you want to go that route you could be accused you know a little more logically of legalism of salvation by works that is if you could be accused of legalism I obeying the commandments and I suppose that you could get all if you were keeping any of as a means of trying to earn your salvation that could be legalism but please know I like to think that as evidence were beyond the point of thinking in our obedience to the law earns our salvation I'd like to think that where we does anybody here really think you really think that your upkeep and the law well enough to be saved by his anger you really do you really think your kingdom the law working the second tenet well enough to be saved by video to stand before God and judgments it will look out well I kept the Commandments and of course I like to think we're beyond that I mean the point is the law is to point out sin not to cure it the law shows us the problem it was not it was never meant to solve the problem in all the old analogy of the law is a mirror and I does look in the married year after year and it just gets armed men really care I don't really care much about but it's not getting rid of the gray hairs is not getting rid of the wrinkles it's not didn't read anything wasn't meant to do that it was to show the gray hairs and wrinkles and so on but it can't cure it any more than obedience to the law can solve the problem caused by certain classes therefore by the deeds of the law that shall no flesh be justified in his sight for by the law is the knowledge of sin the law points out sin what shall we say then is the law gives sin God for bid may I had not known sin but by the law pride not known lust except the loss that thou shall not constitute again and again the law points out the problem if we were going to be a dancer but my point is that if we were going to be accused of being legalists if were going to be accused of being legalistic it should be because we keep the other command but we are legalists because we were trying to earn our salvation because we west on the Sabbath day of being the primary there is just as striking the one commandment that tells us the rest the one commandment that we that we restaurant that's the commandment that we are accused of trying to earn our way to heaven on and I just line that's just beyond ridiculous I mean the irony of it all by resting on by resting on the Sabbath were trying to work our way to heaven reminds me of the kid in the orphan who kills this packaging kills his parents and then pleads to the judge to have mercy on them because because he's an orphan in the night now you can be just as we can be legalistic but the Sabbath and always any of the commandments and I know I don't help we don't know we don't keep the Sabbath because we think it's going to save us if you see about if you think you keep in any of the commandments that make you good enough to be saved you're being a legalist and out whether any of the commandments that way will I think somehow this Avenue suite lost control of the dialogue and we found ourselves defending this weekly rest we have in Christ from the argument that somehow antithetical to rest in Christ and are somehow we only wait wait where somehow he defend the fact that we don't have rest in Christ because work because where resting on the Sabbath day that we don't have our rest in Christ somehow the argument has gotten out of control are you know we've lost control of the argument you my argument is that far from being and the faculty race file from being antithetical to salvation by by grace are resting in the Sabbath is a visible manifestation and expression of the rest and range that we have in Christ we just don't say we have that rest we live out that rest is ideally a limit out every day but especially in the Sabbath a weekly reminder of the grace of the rest that we have in Jesus Joe in the Bible creation and redemption are inseparably twine or inseparably intertwined you mean John John beginning of me was the creator and he's a Redeemer and was only by virtue of him being the creator could he be the Redeemer and creation is so important reminder of creationists on twentieth think about this to sell it for God demands one seven one seven of our ally 's every week without exception to remind us to remind us not only of him as our Creator but jumps but mostly as our group is as because she's creator out of that creation he's also our Redeemer what other commandment what other commandment it all is still for the one other doctrine rather is so close shall so crucial and this gets into this whole creation evolution thing creation is so important crisis creator is so important that he demands one seventh of our lives without exception without exception to remind us to remind us of him as Creator and directly as a result creator he is also are repeating itself applies we come once a week we have this reminder so I just think the irony irony here the irony here is the burden of proof than should be on those who claim he claiming to have rest in Christ I'm missing out on the New Testament 's most obvious obvious expression of the rest in Christ and that is the seventh day staff made to be accused of working your way to heaven by resting by resting on the Sabbath day I mean the irony is so strong the Army there is so strong that I just somehow we just seem to have missed it Mister do I think we could turn the tables on the other way and say no you are missing out on you just saying you have to rest in Christ you just set the Sabbath is a visible manifestation of that rest is versus in Hebrews there been a lot of controversy over him therefore there remain as they are there remain at therefore a rest of the people of God for he that is entered into his rest has also ceased from his own works as God did from his let us labor therefore to enter into that rest lest any man fall after the same example of on believe maybe it's a clear reference to resting in Christ as God rested on the Sabbath day there does remain a rest of the people of God arrest found in Jesus and what he has done for us in all my pain for our sin arrest that is expressed in among other things the seventh day Sabbath you know which the commandment the one commandment that's especially devoted to special especially devoted to allowing us to enjoy in the unique way the rest that we have been cracked like that it is soon or later and I hear that argument as I said the more sophisticated today the author here how often do you hear today from people Jesus changed the Sabbath to Sunday dinner that you hear that you're not sometimes but you don't hear about as much how often do you hear the other argument that our rest is in Jesus our rest is in Jesus yet you can see more yet Moore is a lot more sophisticated it's a lot more coming lot and the Adventists these ex- Adventists you get on their websites I get they arrest last magazine proclamation I don't get it every every quarter when it comes out and I've noticed over the years when Desmond Ford broke away or whatever thirty years ago they had a publication and interest in stopping after bike the second third year it's the same thing over and over and over again I get Gail Rasul last publication it's the same thing over and over and over again they just repeat the same stuff you know it's just the same little mantra in our rest is fulfilled in Christ therefore we don't have to keep the seventh day Sabbath and Isaiah said somehow we need to learn to on this argument around the turn this argument around and say no we have the resting gees and we express that rest every week through keeping the Sabbath we express that the assurance of salvation that we have to revisit obedience to the law and puts his credit the Austin place of our less than perfect obedience to the law so we rest in what Christ has done for ops and again not just a matter of saying it but through the Sabbath we express it in unique way a way that really goes back to the beginning a right that was just a few thoughts I have on on the Sabbath we still got plenty of time you do have any any questions on this but I just wanted to really point out this idea of the irony the irony of us being accused of working our way to heaven by resting on the Sabbath okay yes sir go ahead I will be a better word that's having what I want to be the problem with expressing manifesting and that's better that's even yeah I'd say that even forgets that it's taking part of the rest that's good that's good I like that that's even a better way yet taking part in the right yeah I yeah I think that's about being clearer way of saying that I highlight that I like this we learn okay go ahead now yeah yeah I mean that's that's all the sessions you have decided not made I want I will it's an argument it's okay but I don't think everything stands or falls on I don't think everything stands or falls on me think it was just God 's way of the developers you need God 's way of telling the Israelites in all in particular in that context remember the Sabbath and I went I would put too much into anatomy and is rare but I don't think it's that you know you and I can really convince anyone on the wood that alone can go ahead the map well to well good point I think again all context itself even without the Greek you know God rested from his work of creation so that points us to the Sabbath okay go I just got a the you think it stands I think it stands from the common argument that it doesn't we know which is not is not very lots was eight what's the big deal what's the big deal okay what day does it matter what they say I think they might argue the legalism comes in because were picking a specific day in all and yet well that's the day the Bible said that they go you can argue logically and rationally for all the other commandments you could argue logically and rationally from natural law if you want over all the other commandments but you all hard there's no weekly there's nothing in the stars the weekly cycle in others nothing special you with your mama as the moon once a month in the circuit on the sun around the earth and all that but the Sabbath the seventh day is almost arbitrary and we keep it seven eight only because God says the key the seventh day it's a specific command that makes it stand out specifically the other sound of his always been a test the Sabbath is the test with ancient Israel even before Sinai it was a test and here's the thing to overcome get your hands you know as I study creation in this whole issue it's never been clear to me how Sabbath ends Sunday issue it makes so much sense to me about why that would be the outward to find the mark in the last day because again Sabbath point shoot you God as creator everything is doctrine we believe everything we believe every teaching not one of them makes a lick of sense apart from God as creator J Mesa do not judge you know what you're the blame doesn't start out with a statement about the nature of Christ doesn't start out with a statement about the about the atonement doesn't start out with a statement about obeying the law it doesn't start out with a statement about anything it starts out with statement about God as creator because that's the foundation upon which everything else we believe everything else we believe everything stands from God as creator why is there something instead of nothing as that philosopher is about as basic in its far back as you can get God as Creator to bring back any farther is to go to God himself Kate God is creator and then right there at the bottom line level and then at the foundation of the world you're right will of God is the creator is the seventh day Sabbath can you see the point here everything stands from God as again I can't reiterate this enough what is atonement apart from God as the creator of the same apart from God as a career what is the cross just another murder Jews and baseball in front of all that wasn't created by God when we start to every document everything everything rests on God as the creator and the Sabbath is the symbol of God 's equator you can't get any further back and sent in the last days to see that means you see the point here that being over Saturday and Sunday that being intimate Sofia so the point is in the thirty years as an Ibanez the Sabbath Sunday as the last is the issue in the last eight months more sensed me now than it ever did you really don't like the fact that really all people ideas Aristotle of all people because Aristotle said he can understand anything to the understand its origins you understand its causes beyond and I thought about that and I started to know typical fashion that's unscrewed the church up for two thousand years is known in Greek philosophy with Christianity Scott messed this up but I tend to do that though I try to be careful with her but that was a good point is everything less on God as the creator and the Sabbath as is your kicking out at the most fundamental level that's why in the last face Sunday that makes so much sense to me now how's it all got to play out how the whole world to get the Mark of the beast that's a whole other that's a whole other issue but the theology the theology of the Sabbath and and and Sunday being the issue in the last days it's so clear to me now I can't see it is anything else because nothing else is more fundamental the cross Jesus all that all doesn't make sense apart from God as creator so that's getting right the most fundamental level possible Maui on the whole world getting caught up in that that's another issue but as I told him the other day I first joined the church I joined the church in nineteen eighty I thought how on the world as America ever enforce the mark of the beast upon the world went in with the Soviet Union go to disappear sometime now and then kaboom so I saw how all that apply out I don't know what it makes so much sense to me Sabbath Sunday okay but your next go-ahead articulate okay I don't say that again the Sabbath day that also the Sabbath is not foreshadowing anything this was a reminder of what already happened not what is the calm get well but again I think it's it's a sign of God as creator and his Creator and Redeemer and behold I create a new heavens and a newer you could argue it's a symbol of the week creation as well because God 's Ghana create a new heaven in fact it was very interesting general wonder why in the Bible Jesus was when Jesus did his healing on the Sabbath the Pharisees gave him such a hard time and the reason that they gave him a hard time is because the Jews believe that the Sabbath was a symbol of what they call in Hebrew as long off the world to come K and make because they believe in the world to come there was good be no sickness no disease nor death the Sabbath was a case on the alone hop off so in Jewish tradition you weren't supposed to do anything on the Sabbath that when ripping done in the old Omaha because I don't see anywhere else I think about the Bible as avid as we struggle with this is everybody start with the Scripture tells you to keep the Sabbath but doesn't give you a whole lot of details about how to do let's be honest with it we just don't have a whole lot of details about how to do it you know Jesus came and the con ironies Jesus came and how to loosen up the sex and remember Jesus came and how to loosen up the Sabbath keeping you know we have to can't count back off a little on how you spin it something interesting for us as Sabbath keepers to deal with but but the point is it was seen as a symbol of of of of David on the new heavens and the new worth of the world comes I don't think you could just lock it into just the past click okay go ahead and all you I think about all the time till the question of he said that there defending creation and they deny the Sabbath and XO said he was really sick of you who back a new study the Om creation movement in America who were the founders were Seventh-day Adventists Seventh-day Adventists were the ones that really started the whole creation thing in in in Christianity ends as we see we sort of lost or some sort what yet but that is the irony of a while back so I wrote an article in the review and some people wanted to reprint it some non- Adventist group wanted to reprint it was an argument again evolution from a biblical standpoint and I have one line in their I had one line in there about the Sabbath you know as a sign of creation and they wanted they wanted to rephrase that line it all as a symptom of something given to the Jews and I thought about it for a little while was okay let them do it I said little do you know I mean at this point are not ready for I wanted to get the other points as well but it is amazing it is amazing you can make these evangelicals wonderful loving Christians so many ways yourself but you mention the Sabbath if you have that experience and some of them can go ballistic they go ballistic and a hen again especially over the years when I see it's foundational to everything because creation is foundational to everything we believe it to gap creation everything crumbles and there's the sign of it and they reject up in a metadata for a while there patiently with the common high-speed lateral here great you him now where is the biblical evidence wares available evidence and the point is you had apostasy in the church your half the letters of the New Testament if they happen a number of Paul's letters in the New Testament were dealing with apostasy in the church that well while this may be in it had it all become an issue then put it this way and we think we know this very well look at the state that Paul had to deal with over circumcision can you imagine if they were changing the Sabbath if there were some issue about changing the Sabbath I mean the whole Journal New Testament in the context of begin to see their arguing they are arguing his history there arguing it out there there there there arguing from silence I would say look at the Scripture look at Jesus example look at Jesus command under the fact that there might have been some people keeping Sunday as I said in an area where I live I said this or that a pastor abandon left the church started keeping Sabbath with his breakaway people then started having a Saturday evening worship and then have Sunday and then eventually over time as more and more not happy with anonymous background came in eventually they completely abandoned the Saturday night warship and started going to son and I think that's a microcosm of how the whole change of the Sabbath came there was originally both and then over time the change came I think that's one argument from history and silence than from Scripture okay you next year your hand up I is in a you yeah yeah three the fact that never go to church on Sabbath William Howell is is almost comedic drama doesn't say go to church again keep the Sabbath holy is almost as if you understand how they kept the back in the Old Testament times including travel far they didn't even open yet the key is not really in which they go to church I mean is it sinful to go to church on Sunday and any of you ever been invited by your friends to go to church on Sunday unable to go back at any others out there that the problem is not going to church on Sunday the problem is what you do on Saturday and what you don't do that's where that's where the issue is that you there well enough that's good points she cannot she also said to execute said that when I opened it this way I used to think that the Sabbath as long as we kept the Sabbath would be protected from revolution and yet the letter the world and the power of the world is so strong that the number years ago I went to a debate I heard a debate on tape between an atheist and theist at what's under that certain everybody was flocking to for a while and breakdown Willow Creek yeah that was a habit as Mecca for a while as well every and that they had a debate between an atheist and theist over the existence of God then a fetus which is finding William Lane Craig who's one of my heroes and he's really really he's reformed Christian in all and some just he is brilliant I mean guys got to PACs they put him up against some force should knock yourself out with Madeleine Murray O'Hare you know that American atheists is side they would be like putting me in the boxing ring with George Foreman or so I was a junk it was a joke at one point in the debate the question of evolution came up and I was so disappointed and William Lane Craig is a one point he said now the verdict is still out on evolution will have to see I will thought was fascinating was the atheist made a point which I thought was so powerful otherwise what you scratch to be atheist the point here is he said evolution is how Satan would create not God how I was so disappointed I thought William Lane Craig and then it hit me how could this really and theologian I mean the guy just blows my mind out the abuse of how smart he is a sinner how can he be caught up in the help you need not be circumvented it may William Lane Craig doesn't keep the seventh day Sabbath so he can have this and your even after this year that ideally what a perfect and that was ten years ago and it's obvious now it's obvious now that the lure of the world and the power of the world is so strong that even the seventh base sounded isn't strong enough for some first Psalm you know to protect them from from evolution I'd like to believe that the vast vast majority of the Avenue church hasn't caught up in that nonsense but the fact that even some are just shelters etc. definitely been here we've been here to augment a few minutes left J Arthurs are iconic go-ahead go-ahead and that now that's a tough hottie that's been the stronghold that has been as I said the struggle for Sabbath keepers from day one is how do you keep the Sabbath how do you and I know a if it's particularly when you're busy when you're busy and I think sometimes my kids in on a summer vacation in however not work in that harder average and how they they don't appreciate the Sabbath the way you know we do when your work a lot harder I don't know I just think that Sabbath expose anything that has rich it can really is more than some mind frequently gets somewhat doing this doing that I wasn't raised in the church I was really fabulous Italian stories about how well they can go in the water only up to your knees on the Sabbath and I'll add that if you ever read you really freak out you can get feeling a chance to get on it all that they got the Talmud which is like Jewish commentary on the Bible and they got to track tapes on keeping the Sabbath and it's just on believable the rules and regulations about keeping the saddle visit the deer walks in your house on the Sabbath in Okanagan oh you can only open the door certain direction to let them out and you can't pick up a rock on the Sabbath but the child holds a rock and you can pick the child holding the rock and on and on and so you and and and and week to I've often wondered I've often wondered if you get all I can say is look at the model the biblical model that you got with Jesus it's a little scary particularly for consistently other conservative if you're a conservative he he the warning with Jesus as I said I had a friend at the GC hoops at them he wants he said you know he pointed that out to me one time because I was always in our early self-appointed heresy hunters in all and are again on on on and then I look at the model of Jesus and he was trying to loosen some of the people okay particularly on the Sabbath it was like you know and so I don't know that please don't think I learned a while back it got to be so careful with what you say it could take statements out of context I want to run on online at a whole thing about gay marriage I was blogging something on somebody's blog I yeah yeah Allawi somewhere about that right now and I and the whole context and the whole contact I was closing and I guess it's having I'm sure Jesus I'm sure Jesus looks fondly upon engaging in all monogamous sex or something like that coming the whole context was so as I wrote this line I said to myself be careful some of them take the static context I thought no way nobody would be that low in this whole context to do that and I have been fighting Matt for six months now the fact is a minor the GC print it out but I will want to have a get out to harass me on and harassed me on a daily like that I learned a lot one of the rooms you know they also make you think I came and took a picture of me and the next thing I know he's got a journey I stuck my time we took the pictures got studs in my time is nearing it is not that on the walls I thought I'd give you leave them alone there would on the Internet but you might apply in all matters it just the bottom line is I I think maybe maybe the reason the Bible doesn't give us a whole lot of details about how to keep the Sabbath is because the Lord wants us to work it out ourselves with it within the parameters of the principles that were given a few principles that were given because it's so easy I said look at what happened with the Jews after the Babylonian captivity and their desire to protect the Sabbath they got to the point where Jesus himself was accused of being a Sabbath breaker and so that's when he also said that it has a difficult questions at all I think in the end it's your attitude towards what the Sabbath means in and I think it's reflective of your whole attitude towards God so I think that's that's it sorry sorry let's pray that again I thank you for the truth of the Sabbath I thank you for the West the rest that we can enjoy the physical rest and we can have a visible part taking I have the rest that you offer us each that is offered us and we can do that through the Sabbath at this distaste on helpless to be balanced and twisting wound through this more more about what it means to be saved and you and how you would have us to live in Christ name I pray amen this was used by odd numbers for CYC generation of Christ you would like to learn more about you might see please visit www. 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