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Church: From Member to Follower

Justin Kim


Justin Kim

Assistant Director of Sabbath School/Personal Ministries and Editor of the inVerse Bible Study Guide for the General Conference


  • August 1, 2019
    1:45 PM
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So you have fear guilt and shame. And I love those 3 things I don't love those 3 things either the concept that the cross in the writings of spirit or prophecy and the Bible the cross removes these 3 things these 3 things and these 3 things oh you're not not text picks the middle part is what the world is dealing with and the world Micio logically is divided into these 3 worlds OK And for now the other the easiest one is fear many parts of Africa. Indigenous Latin America and indigenous Asia is fear base. Well if you feel if you follow along not really but yeah I mean there obviously there's this fear on a general level everywhere but built into the culture so just very superstitious they believe their spirits all around and so some only they will outside and then they'll see a cloud and they see an ominous black cloud and oh the spirits are angry today well today maybe a not good day to go out into harvest they may be angry so today I'll just stand being here and they'll make some tea and they put the tea leaves and T.V.'s come out and then they flare in a weird way in the old the spirits are very very angry today very very well today I guess I should not you know and then they interpret all these things that way Korea guess what now automatic you think it's a shame based society but he used to be a what a few basis and if you look at modern Korean Christianity Yeah there's Christianity Yeah there is the shame based Confucian culture but but but underlying presupposition is a lot of shamanistic elements within Korea. I remember one time I was sitting. I don't I mean you do this by a bad habit but I sit and I cross my legs and I 100. Yes you know. And my mom was like Cruise mom who has my mom down down down down like why and she's like well we just don't do that one where we don't like give me a reason why I'm like Spock give me a logical reason put. The blessings fall out of your foot. OK We've been adding this for like like all my life you've been you know administering your life. So where is the hope of the police coming from. Where is the pick stored and Saku bit about in my book and I'm going to as a mum as a mother I'm going to as a mom. So I went to the kitchen and I got a bull. And I put the bowl underneath my foot I was watching T.V. like this. And then I took the boat off as I put it back on my head. And she was laughing so I was like that it doesn't work that way I'm like well how does. This is what system is this and the reality is there used to be a system there used to was but we kind of forgotten what that was but the remnants of it is still we have these little superstitious things that this morning it was raining and it was sunning at the shining at the same time and I remember my grandmother says hold on only she's a couple. Like the tiger is getting married. Why. Is that so this is this is I know not all of it as some of this but as these remnants and it's it is it is Korean history in a lot but rooted in is that and lot of these quote unquote under undeveloped or primitive cultures are still fear based and when we come in and we talk about we open Romans or top of the righteousness of God It really doesn't make sense it just kind of goes over their head your guilt is taken away your shame and you're like OK well I don't deal with kill I don't deal with shame but they deal with fear on a daily basis and so what they need is they need to know that God is more powerful than all the spirits in their world so through prayer or through a miracle or through something amazing like wow this God is the God of all gods and there a lot of verses that give us fear based answer to fear based culture Number 2 is guilt based guilt based is you did something wrong and you're going to be punished as a result you will be punished and many of the European societies Australia South Africa and Canada and America are guilty be like hey if you do this you will go to hell for Amber and there's this kind of like and we don't believe in that yes but there is this punishment I will I need to get into heaven I won't get into heaven this is on the front of their mind a natural result of that is they want when there is law they want to follow the rules and then when they when someone breaks the law they look to law for justice we all get to have to abide by the rules and if you break the rules you're going to be punished. And there looking for rights my rights your rights my right as a woman I believe this by right as I'm in my right and this happens in the cafeteria here I saw it. I saw my own eyes I told him until noon OK I'm not going anywhere another judgment on this is standing there and he's there and how and when he comes in through and she's like moves him aside and gets the eggs and moves and he's like just not sure and he's looking for some kind of legal system to provide him justice but there's no justice a Korean can't meaning cafeteria. There is no justice whatsoever OK so he's not in a fear based He's not in shame based He's looking for the guilt to be placed upon that grandmother's heart but it didn't happen so that's the world out there so in guilt based the righteousness of God the what the he who takes away your sin he who gives you purity all these things really make so the American Christianity comes from this tradition you see that last is shame based OK So shame based does not believe in spirits all around there's not look towards one judge giving you just this shame based is based on the public perception of everybody. Social pressure and you take that and you add social media and what do you get perfect marriage very interesting that America although it is a guilt based culture it's slowly moving towards a shame based culture with social media. You know used to the next generation if they don't like if you break up with a girl you just shame her on the Internet with all this whatever that's very very very interesting that this is happening all these things take place at church as well. I met a pastor this week and you know his you know Koreans because everything so external They say hey how are you and his response and I just. Get the proof. That it came on and I have gained weight to confess my sins before you and so yeah I'm like yeah and so half of me was like Well hello to you too. All right but the other half was like yeah I mean yeah this is Korea and for those of you have been in Korea has long enough you kind of expect that and like well oh yeah Mexico which was in the U.S. has a bias as they all nice you know some complementing him back was somehow I'm presenting this this the series and it got somebody in somebody and got back to him and so he thought I was talking about him in the seminar so he comes back to me and he says he I'm so sorry I'm so sorry people are talking in this shame the south is all these dynamics are taking place and so it's so much fun. And shame factor his guilt factor and he's like hey I didn't mean anything by it and I said Pastor I'm an American it's all good when I say it's all good I say once it's all good and I mean that it's all good and. Like I said it once and I'll say it twice we're totally good like I'm laughing we need to laugh at these things I mean we need to laugh we don't we become insane and so it's cool how these things take place especially at church. So we have big Asian American experience the experience of the community instead of the experience of Jesus is for most. The really a means to experience Jesus is secondary but experiencing the Korean hon. Joke this is what is most important because if you feel this enough you won't leave church and this is where they almost kind of miss it so there's these almost 3 version number one Churches can become a Korean art museum you go in I'm like hey this is so and so and they graduate from this place and this is so and so is mom and this is so so and this mom is related this person's you know father and this person 2nd cousin is actually married to my dry cleaners you know dogcatcher and that's why we're happy church you know this is kind of and so it's just kind of you're walking in watching and you become like this you're just the friend here part of this community. Are you again you are OK so you're more Korean than we think we have a Korean cultural center so some people come to church because they just need to keep their culture of alive and you're very familiar with this I remember when I was little we talk hung CULE at my church and even as a young child I'm thinking you know why are our parents so strong in teaching us Korean No I didn't I know how to read I know how to write I love Korean I loves his own long I know the whole history like yes you know needed to get forever you know that's that's the power to that but why were they so strong on pushing that but understanding the 2300 day prophecy understanding the Daniel 2789 understanding Revelation 14 they're like yeah that's that's kind optional and even baptism studies are like if you feel ready you know you can you can do it you can do it later. But. You must learn core you know you of course it is flowing through you and good is flowing through you and and you did and so this is very interesting the guys did it really pushed on the girls they had to make the where it will humble can learn each piece of the humble and then you know fan dance how many of churches have the fan dance and you have to go to a senior citizen center and show all these non Koreans and this is the fans that you do. And then I go home and just love Japanese culture and they were not Japanese workers. So you have this cold cream cultural center motif and just I mean I know making fun of them but in their defense they are immigrants and they've totally left behind their mother culture and they're coming to a foreign culture and in many ways their experience period experiencing depression experiencing failure they're not getting the language I mean they're eating all of time and just if they want to eat their own food and so I lease they just need have a little bit of a safe space just for them to be themselves so I'm not blaming the Koreans because Americans do the same exact thing when they leave America yes Americans go and funny thing is when other country other countries other nations when they leave their country they're called immigrants but Americans leave America their call expatriates. Right there not like Hi I'm an American immigrant to Korea now you're an expatriate for some reason as a very double standard there anyway so these Americans do that they do the same thing so we're not blaming we're just trying to trying laughing and see these patterns and lastly some churches. Our family churches Yeah like everyone just related everyone and there's this mentality that if you are a. Part of this church and everybody you can do it and use it if the if you win the patriarch you win the whole family and so this is this occurs in Africa you in the chief you've got the whole village and this is also ancient Korean thinking if you get the patriarch all of their kids are part of this church and that's that says I'm interested. This is just a quick this is a minor point if you were never happy at any a church and you're looking constantly for the perfect church don't join it because you will ruin it. OK so I want to disabuse our minds there is no such thing as the perfect church OK we are all on this journey to find and and we are we all be ourselves being imperfect even if we do we get imperfect as a result of these these mana mano types are not bad but when they are are they become more visible when this does make sense when these things become more visible and more prominent then the spiritual function of a church then it becomes bad it makes sense so spirituality is primary and the culture is secondary that's fine. But if this is primary and spirituality is secondary some seeing. OK there are some issues in immigrant churches there's a generational barrier there's a language barrier and yesterday I was listening to Jimi we're at a crossroads where this generational in a language as sexy now coming to inversion points where it's before it was like if you automatically hear Korean side if you're young you're automatically English side and if you talk to some of them so my kids their primary language is Corinne K. but youngest only speaks Korean when we and we talk to some of the elderly because they see that they're young they are sick and oh are you a little boy the cute boy how are you and my kids I was like them was a modern them. So these are to make you think the generation and the language is exactly the same but now as the as more immigrants from Korea are coming that are younger and as the English side is getting older it's not a clear cut barrier anymore and not easy to judge that way and I was there is there is a cultural barrier there are these new groups that are emerging at post college young single adult young married or the older married or older single families with kids and there are some churches this is obviously not in the administers because a little bit smaller but in the Baptist Methodist Presbyterian convocations they actually have this they are like a post-collegiate here young adult single Here middle adult here middle adult married here confused adult with kids here and really old but single here post and they have all these little groups and really we've come to a point where we don't know how to minister to all these different groups. There is coming a point we're trying to strike stride differentiate differentiate and in a sense we're eroding the fabric of the church. Because really really need everyone together and there's a certain grace about happens when you have done bumpy up at a church together as well OK when the people of the sauce everywhere as possible in the West they say I think therefore I am in the east OK this isn't something cute this is actually kind of motif it's not if you think that you are it's if you belong you all. You need to be along to somewhere and so we do this too we say hey where you from what church you go to we're do you belong. In the ancient Korean ways they said What is your father's name and when they 1st asked me like why do you want to know my dad's name like did he do something wrong like I don't I don't you want to catch him out I don't know what we were but that they just do what they want to find out which family you're a part of. Koreans do this I'm the 1st born son a better saw a Massachusetts church therefore I am so they it becomes very very specific on who you are. Yet like my my wife does this she says oh I'm the 2nd born daughter of Elder KU of the kind I'm church and come you know prophets I'm like wow that is like a like a zip code of identity of who you are this creation American issues there is you take Asian performance and American and she meant and you got a perfect. Formula for workaholics OK being creative American is very difficult. Koreans Asians are all about external performance it's just the way our extra now and and Americans about success and you put those together it becomes especially a pressure for fathers and mothers but fathers we do deal with perfectionism perfectionistic tendencies you have theology and there are certain weird theologies that promote perfectionism it becomes very dangerous to your spiritual condition and as a culture we lack thankfulness and humility OK it's because we're so sensitive and we're always in front of people you can't really vocalize your think fullness it's almost people interpret it as a sign of a pride and arrogance so you've got to put yourself down as a result if you say if you think of too much it's almost as if you're. Tellin talking if that's or heard. In public so you want to do that we accomplish to lessen our debt so that we may distain others and more debt but we are all comparatively in the same spot in the light of the cross OK you're going to think that we accomplished the lesson our debt so they can disdain others and more debt. So like well I'm not really that bad I'm not that bad well comparatively that person is worse but under the cross We're both in the pit together. There are wonderful things about being in the Asian American OK And like I said I got I had to I got to pastor a Korean American church American church 550 members in downtown Detroit got to pastor a career in Korean church where like 3030 members 15 members felt like 100 members sometimes because although we will stop complaining. So Asian Americans are very only almost ambidextrous we can be right handed or be right handed we can be left handed left handed we can interact with Koreans pretty easily we can interact with with with Westerners pretty easily we have this mobility that we need to capitalize on. We are usually intelligent men usually I mean there's exceptions in this room but we usually we are intelligent we are usually educated not because what we want to be educated but because our community forced us and paid for us and and then and now they want they want to withdraw those those those contributions we know we understand what grits if you get a chance read the book called grit by enjoy a duck's worth she's actually Korean you know that she's actually Korean she married and her maiden name was taken and she's the docs but she grits you know you know she's saying Can John you know you are in this and every Korean War movie is based on that you know all these North Korean sob stories are based you know used as cold as the middle of the winter the room water was frozen and there was barbed wire but you just get through it and you're bleeding you chop off you're all remember you on one leg you're hopping over the border and they shoot you down your family is gone but the but you finally made it to the war because that's a wonderful Korean story OK diligence is another one we are socially aware and we think through implications. OK So because Westerners are so individualistic they just do what they want to do and they don't really think through all the permutations of how their actions will impact the entire community Asians calculate all this thing in real time. Right to do that we want to compete with what we're doing and so the social calculation I call it the new C antenna are supersensitive Korean Americans kind of have this hybrid we're not as sensitive as the Koreans but were much more sensitive than the Westerners so when the Asian Americans enter into a Western context almost social calculations are very advanced and we very promising for future leadership so in board meetings a lot of Asian Americans like hey that might not be a wise idea why well this can happen this can happen this can happen this can have and this can happen is going to go to and they're like we never ever imagined the possibility of all these things yeah well no option number one has a 44 percent chance in this one a 33 percent chance and 2 percent chance and we do all the mathematics with the social implications and this is really really good for leadership and cast vision casting and organizational development we learn how to be non-offensive. OK which is very ironic because when Koreans hang out Koreans are like a you're fat you're ugly and and whoa what's with your face we we we we do that but when we hang out with with Americans or Western We know how to play the polite card and add a kid and you know we do that well we believe in relationships. Koreans especially they got the partying thing down. Right and I mention this anecdote my wife we had people over our house and you know when when westerners hang out they just hang out they just 2 people here 3 people here 2 people here and we're just eating our order and just slipping away and my wife is like Sol what are we going to do next and like you know this is it this is we don't do more snow we need to play a game I ain't playing a game with all these and just you can do it you know let's get in a circle I mean you know you do this you know. You cool whatever you like please. Let's learn American social skills but when westerners are invited they love it and they just feel like wow oh people have fun like this on a weekly basis Yep Koreans do this every single every single week we do this. Hospitality We really is part of grain in our culture yes where one uses a Korean you know how many cooks for a 1000 people in her home and the whole church is coming over and she's just like oh I just pull this together and it's just like 900 pound sons and she's wearing a humble and she's a welcome to to our house and all these things so you know Koreans are really big and hospitality on average we have higher wealth and we endure pain we don't complain we just just hold it in and just kind of you know keep your head down it's kind of our natural reaction this should be reasons why we choose a local church usually you graduate you get married you get a profession you move into a local area and because we really don't think about church the habits that we got from our parents our local church is usually the reason is what we what how we choose a new church the reasons of choosing a local church as it should be a place where trained as a what a soul winner. That's really the function of a church but many people say well I want to go where there's only careens I want to go where the potluck is really good which is a bad reason to go to church OK I want to go to church where the pastor is really good the pasture doesn't have to be a good preacher It is a travesty when the pastor is too good of a preacher and then all these people come to hear him and then when he leaves the church is just emptied out but that's not a community that's just an audience listening to something it's not an ideal church OK. The pastor should be a saw a trainer or an of the elders should train you on how to be a soldier so many of you who are in the in the professional world you're like well I'm just a pediatrician I'm not a soul and I pay the pastor to do that the pastor is not a soul winner now that's the motif we get from the Korean churches where the elders just we get together we just money money money we have to pay the spot pastor salary and the pastor is the $1.00 that's all the visitation the pastors the one that's baptizing every one know the pastor is to train all the elders and the elders go out and do the work this is the secret to the growth of the administrators in Africa where the growth is the largest one 3rd of the world church is in Africa one local pastor has 33 churches $33.00 churches and each of these churches has about 20 elders and these elders are doing their work they're working from $9.00 to $5.00 but they're going out and doing Bible study doing all the visitation and they're doing the funeral and all these things and that and then they're just getting trained one see here they see their pastor once a year I was doing evangelism allowed and they said Hey Pastor we're so sore we have to give you our smallest church like that's OK and I'm here to help you guys whatever you guys need how many members are there 800 are there. This is your smallest church yet it's a spinoff of the Mother Church Mother Church is 2500 members like oh yeah it's really small it says. Yeah I go to church at 930 I'm late for church people are there at 830 to get a seat and they're praising the Lord for an hour now your presupposition all this is Africa these are an educated people that are like in mud and they're just like we have nothing to do so let's go to church and just seeing these are educated city post-doctoral professionals Africa is different from what it was even 10 years ago really thinks that China that the society and economy has really grown and they're really serious about their faith and they're not Pastor dependent something we have inherited from our parental generation is we need a pastor every church needs one pastor but the spirit of prophecy says that if you have these one pastor hovering over your churches your pastor can paralyze the growth of the local church something to be where oh it's so good winning agency Number 2 a place to be fed biblically Amen so you're not you should have a good pastor can preach or a good elder that has a good Sabbath school study but really we get fed big glee over to a place to bring your HU and your hoop so Church is not a place where you get fed primarily. But as you're in your practice or as or in your in your field of work and then you interact with these people you have a certain drive to bring them to church well which church do you feel comfortable in bringing your potential contacts to a lot of times in the Korean subculture is I work for 6 days and then Sabbath is the day of my rest and I don't want to interact with these Americans man and you shut it down today is a day of holy careens and you just I get to talk or in and have my kids play with other Korean kids and it's a it's a fair arm. Of sanctified races it is when we point the finger and say hey black people wanting to worship only with black people that's racism white people only wanting to worship with white people that's racism but I'm Korean and I have the right to only want to worship with with Korean people or something whole latently wrong with that in our presupposition Now I'm not saying we're all racist or like we we hate everyone that's non Korean We had a super I'm not saying that we need to think through some of these implications of how we do church the fact that the adult generation the I say the adult and the 1st generation doing it it's OK because they don't speak English but why do we do that if we're interacting on the on a on a daily language English level and therefore place where you develop church leadership skills this is where we're going to talk about a place for spiritual courage men and biblical fellowship Amen a place to hone what's. Mission focus and I surmise that many Korean American fellowships Adventist or not have a lack of mission folk they just exist for the sake of existing. But I really applaud that the Collegeville Korean church because their mission focus there ain't that many Koreans in college deal Tennessee but their mission focus is for the students so they customize all of their their programming to it to train these students for the future Andrew's living Springs the same as their base the next universities talking to elder nanny and he's like hey we have a small that old dinky Korean church in Hickory North Carolina right how many Koreans are there just then. But there was a monk community so this this Korean church that hey we're Asian The They're Asian there's a similar affinity we've got this is our mission focus and that's what we need in each of our local churches and lastly to place deep in your biblical Adventists beliefs and that that's pretty self-explanatory this is the admin is go Amen It was developed in the 1990 S. people think it's like some kind of me sonic symbol and we can talk about that afterwards I don't think it is it's just a logo and that's all it is there is no demon in there upside down I mean the maybe you can see it I don't see it. The Bible in Revelation talks about. Church and titties and this is where we get this is where we get our identity has now been is OK so what church are you a member of. Spencer dispensable Korean he although although in nomenclature He's a member of Spencer Ville he's not a member of Spencer Ville Korean He's a member of the rude Y. administration of which the local branch is Spencer Korean. It makes sense and I know some of you like well that's just kind of wordplay isn't it no because when you attend the Spencer Ville Methodist Church you one member of the Spencer Bill Methodist Church and only the Spencer Ville Methodist Church they do not have a global system that church member you are only a member of their whereas if you're a member of the agonist shirt you are a member of the world wide church you have a say and world governance of how the church works but the local expression of worship is in his a local church that makes sense so these 2 little church entities one is a organization of deception found a Revelation $13.00 and $1.00 is an organization of warning Revelation 14 These are 2 world wide organisations you always have these opposites in Revelation you have the Holy Trinity the unholy trinity the supper the with Jesus and then the wicked who are eaten by birds another kind of dinner that you don't want to be a part of you have the enter Christ you have Christ have these opposites going on here you have 3 frogs that go into the whole world and be the seed here you have 3 angel that go into the world and they war and both go to the whole world and if you look at it crazy ology meaning structures of churches there are only 2 D. nomination S. that have a wound wide structure guess what they are. Camera hearing all sorts of Babylonian mumble. Roman R.C.C. Roman Catholic as a glide system same thing if you're a member of the Catholic Church you were a member of the. You're not a member of Spencer to a Korean Catholic Church. You're a member of the world meaning your memory because your wherever you are you're always a Catholic and as administering were always an agonised wherever you go you're an admin this member OK The mission has nothing to do a salvation you understand is just an identification you place on yourself so let's just be clear clear with that so in the biblical church you have there's a our theology unites us in belief our church manual unites us in practice in practice that changes all the time and it can't that's OK The changes with the times it's OK to change. A church that unites us and sustenance this is tie a tie that is amazing because when you return tie when you return tie Amen not when you pay. When you return tie Amen I just want to say that because this is a controversial point with the 1st generation on the go to your she may have the need to go. You're not naming it. You're not paying it you're poor you know joining it returning Anyways I stop your tie your tie goes up to the convention on a different site it goes up to the conference from that percentage goes to the the Union from the unit goes to the division division the General Conference meaning you can't track where you are quote your dollar is going it just gets diffuse into the world church meaning everyone is helping everyone and it goes top down bottom up and it's just this this excuse this crazy way of how the world church functions many people don't like this especially millennial generation. If I'm going to recruit Turner pay I want to know exactly where this is going Yeah but this is where your surrender because it's not your money to begin with if you're going to be giving it back to God and should it be misused God will punish the misuse or so we have solace in God's vengeance and I really I really believe that and as a pastor as a gospel of the ministry I mean we take very seriously how we use ties I'll admit to you not everyone dies not every leader does unfortunately but God may God have mercy on that individual OK no matter what I do that will not be equal justice God will will remit that person for whatever they did a church an action a Sabbath school I was not a school director for the General Conference Sabbath school is so active around the world side a school is where people saddest calls are growing and divine service is shrinking in North America and Europe satis goal is shrinking but those services are going to come inverted and I don't we don't know why we don't know why and the church in communication used to be the Abbotts Review magazine Agnes World magazine but now with social media our church is no longer has a way to communicate with ourselves on an equal way people are reading whatever magazine they want whether it's conservative or liberal whatever blogging want and the church conversation has really eroded not because of the church really pissed off the world a world that's changed and and that's kind of a sad instance this is a crazy ology from some of this may be very boring but I do. When my father went to church. There was an abuse of ties. And so the natural inclination for a lot of Korean churches is to go congregation to withhold a tie and just give like $2.00 for ties to and say hey we're paying tied and you $2.00 but then your your annual budget is like a $1000000.00 There's a certain dissonance there well it's not a matter of money but it's a matter of theology and this is where $1.00 system is called the Pesca Paul system this is not the Episcopal denomination you understand OK you have a scope OSA means overseer superintendent or a bishop you have Bishop. Priests and deacons and this is the angle can Lutheran and Orthodox churches I mean you have churches here there underneath a rector and underneath the wreck of a bishop and a bishop underneath an archbishop OK this is a hierarchy another way of saying this is a hierarchy a version of this is the papal system OK the papal system is yet the pope Bishop pastor and faithful and these are the ordained and this is the an ordained these are the holy ones even on holy ones so if supreme authority and Cardinals archbishops bishops and priests and local members really do nothing there and significant OK this is a system that we know that we don't like because we're we're adding this we're like oh the Catholics they're really bad question how is this really good you can been trained very well incidentally there's nothing going in this yes Joe. I'm sorry uniformity in what believe so everyone here totally believes the same thing and if you don't believe what happens to you excommunicated a year out because there is uniformity what else. Structure OK every every church organization has structure but this one is very rigidly hierarchical So you know definitely who's in charge and who's not OK Korean culture is the structure because it's militaristic. No and they just obey and just it's just mindless obedience it's easy OK what else it's sufficient money go to the top one guy makes the decision money is spent game over no talking no committee no Ci going until 2 o'clock in the morning just fish it so you've got uniformity of belief fast where you're working why is this bad. How come on having this why is this bad human human humanity can corrupt the system is can be easily abused yes if the top guy is bad then LOL then it's all bad OK So that's that's where that's it never to yeah be independent congregational system and I want to be respectful many of you may come from churches that even though you're part of the atmosphere you may be functioning like an independent Congregational Church. In this instance instance the local church has supreme authority it's the other one but it's not inverted upside down old you have upside down authority in theology a person on time is all in the congregation meaning the church board chooses who the pastor is the church board chooses how to use the money the church board is the ultimate authority and who chooses the church board is the congregation OK So and then and many American churches are in the pen or congregation know even interview their pastors their church parties around here in the past year OK So what do you believe it will I believe that Thursday is the Sabbath Well we don't we leave that we don't like us and they have enough and they interview and while I believe that Tuesday is the Sabbath when we believe that true we now we want you to be our pastor teach us what you know which is kind of theologically cyclical because you're choosing who gets to direct your theology and it's this there's no there's no standard anywhere same thing with ties. Some of these congregations like the prosperity gospel has a smiling Pastor Joel Osteen he is the pastor you know I mean how many church members of the have he has. A lot so then they all pay time right where does all that ties go. To him so if you only want to get into business if you want to get into profit get to be a pastor of an independent Congregational Church I mean that guy so much money he's got 5 houses and Lamborghinis and yachts and he's like it's tired God gave it to me I'm the pastor. Now you think about it as a pastor if I have a 500 member church is that Pastor doing well yeah he's doing well pastor of a 5 member church is he doing well now he's struggling financially you understand how that's bad so the pastor and this a lot of Korean Presbyterian churches the pastor will come and Pung when you come out to our church come out come out come out well the underlying motive is come out because I need your tie that to live and that's not a good motivation. Then you have the Presbyterian system this is not the prosperity Errington nomination this is the Presbyterian ecclesiology authority rests on church membership through assemblies local church is governed by one assembly this is some is governed by another water assembly this theory of governance was developed by John Calvin John Knox is most popular in the reformation movement and it has to do with bishops presbyters as elders these are all the same thing executive responsibilities delegated to representative bodies This Means Committee now some of your committees it's less all this red tape and politics but what alternative do you really have. To have a local body that determines everything give one person or d. of representatives through representatives and it defuses the power meaning abuse is virtually impossible because are so many bodies and so if people are saying own the avenues schurz there is he's conspiracies the you think elder wilson really i'm he cannot have any calculated if you knew about the actual structure of the agnes church it is impossible for one person to create this map i mean he has the be the genius of all in these lucifer himself to create this conspiracy of all conspiracy our system makes it virtually impossible for that happen ok because a so many people talk and if the should that happen so authority in the church rests in the church membership this is why everyone everyone of you do you know where your membership lives ok and men so if you're no know when you're baptized they baptizer you and then the pasture asks we'd like to vote this person into membership and they need a 1st from the congregation in the in this 2nd and then the whole congregation votes the mint when you pick i'm a member of the avenue what are the perks where you get a little weed of country car to get 10 percent off at the a.b.c. and i know no know that when you're a member you get to vote on who represents you and to a higher body of office That's really in and maybe thing on the war that's not a big perk Well if you don't care about church politics and church politics maybe turned up a lot talk about that but you get to determine the direction of the church through who you choose so when the concrete when the conference has a constituency get involved many Korean churches don't get involved because they don't know the language and they say well we can vote anyway and then the Americans will but will however they want anyway so why even go but our generation has missed out because no one has taught us how all this all works so we just end up continually being containing being a congregational entity executive sponsor be delegated to the bodies and officers in 3 levels local conference Union conference and in General Conference there are only 3 levels of the church some of you are thinking well what about the division the division is not another level it is on the same level as the General Conference but it is a division of the general official name the division of the General Conference local conference Union conference and General Conference. We baptized a lady. And she was she's new to add in tism and she said we just we just need more unions in the church and we need less divisions in the church and she didn't understand about this ecclesiology. But we have a lot of unions and we have 13 of it and all we've got to get rid of all divisions in the church Mike Yeah I don't think you know what we're we're talking about and so you have these are the 13 divisions of the world church these divisions and that policy and each of these levels have responsibilities I'll talk about that at the General Conference it's all about mission we have no say in membership So if Joe is here and he starts like you know if he wants to be a 4th day Adventist. Excuse me. Ted Wilson our conference President cannot come down to Spencer will careen says Joe I don't like you excommunicate he can't do that he has no power whatsoever for example if you guys know some of the policies that are happening one administering a versity was teaching inerrant doctrine and someone saying well why can't I listen just go down and just say just fix it he has no jurisdiction on that level whatsoever in the Catholic system the pope can come down and say excommunicate. It's fixed right away and sometimes I was like Man that would be super awesome but that's an abuse of power that's not human beings we're not. To be given to that So these are divisions we are in which division the all know North America division Korea is over there could the current conversation and General Conference talk is that this this is called the North Asia Pacific Division this is where Korea North Korea Japan Mongolia and China are at China is deciding to leave the division altogether and so they may end up being a union all by themselves attached directly to the General Conference due to Mission Micio logical issues and because of that if that occurs this division will have some some interesting dynamics going on in the future. Oh yeah these there are 33 divisions in Africa sub-Saharan Africa one 3rd of the churches right here one 3rd here on the other 3rd is here in Latin America so you take all of Latin America and Africa that's 66 percent of the church Asia is about another 252020 percent I should say you take all of America all of Europe and Australia it's only 8 percent of the World Church. 8 percent on the books you calculated about 4 percent of point 4 percent actually attend church and it's dying as we speak. And the other church the other other stuff the church it's growing like crazy here in this or this blue area is called the Middle Eastern Union it is a mystery as is the 1040 window there are some cities where it will take at the current rate of vandalism 1048 years to reach the entire city. And so these are these are places where not even avenues there's not even one Christian in the entire city and these are areas that we really need to reach out some of you are our missionaries are former missionaries and you know more but this is where the General Conference really. Emphasizes on this is an example of a division this is the essential Africa division I'll be going to Ghana and Cameroon next year in January and in February there's a lot of amazing things happens I'm just giving an example what a division looks like this is a union this is the North Pacific north north Pacific Union and North America which comprises of Idaho that's a weird shaped Idaho but it's a whole conference opera Columbia Washington Oregon Montana and Alaska this is the Arizona local conference an example of what a state conference looks like and this is an example of an ugly minister OK. So the local church they are in charge of membership and local mission so in your local church I'm like I am part of the you know X X local church what is what is your mission focus you determine that your local conference cannot determine that your local conference cannot present can say I don't like you I excommunicate you had enough church they have no jurisdiction whatsoever and you may be wondering why is that a math problem. Local Church determines membership for example of Gina is walking around I know she doesn't do this I'm going to pick on her and she goes around and she's drinking alcohol on you know Sunday you know 12 o'clock noon at Wal-Mart at the front door just drinking out and she's totally like wasted right and then all of my administration when it was like the B.S. going on we need to go to Wal-Mart and. And she's like you know doing crack in front of them marijuana and whatever so then we're not judging her salvation but her public witness is is is under threat so we bring her membership up to the at the local church not conference not General Conference I things and say you know what there's like 900 of us told the Star she was wasted we got photo we got video footage we got to sign testimony that she's like you know addicted to Oxycontin all these things and so we just think not that we're judging her salvation but she's not a bonafide 70 Agnes witness so if anyone if she does something and it was like 7th Day Adventists we can say well she's not a something I missed and that that decision is determined by the local congregation. OK not a salvific effect but a witness component Now you may be thinking that's kind of an extreme case it gets pretty common when it comes to divorces and remarriage is and it gets really sticky the jurisdiction is on the local church or area OK Number 2 is a little conference is their jurisdiction is selection and training of who pastors not the local church but the local conference is in charge of that so whether you have 500 members or 5 members the 2 pastors get paid exactly the same by the local conference and the local conference determines that So if I have 500 members my motivation to do Benjamin is just the same as the 5 member church is they're just they're just doing evangelism for evangelism sake and not worrying about tithing and the numbers and all those things the union conference has to do with local policies and in that thing them they are can text to allies in the mission in their local area and up to 3 levels the unions are the smallest or should be structurally the smallest of the 3 levels and lastly General Conference is in terms of structure this is the weakest and the thinnest but their responsibility is the most because they're in charge of global mission for example if a lot of stuff is happening in South America and nothing is happening in the Middle East they say South America can you help us you take some of your your people some of your resources and you bring him over to the Middle East and you spread the mission work equally so that the world grows together it is a low white quote every member of the church has a voice in choosing officers of the church the church chooses the office of the say conferences delegates chosen by the state Congress choose the offices of the union conferences and then chosen by the union converses choose the office of the General Conference she talks about this this is a structure how you all vote and go into the committee OK God has ordained that the representatives of his church from all parts of the earth when assembled in General Conference shall have what. Authority and that's just talking about all parts of the Earth should have representation what are what are you supposed to do this is the great commission that Elizabeth so wonderfully mentioned yesterday this is an example of how. I can get distributed this is not the same for every conference OK So this is an example of one conference so a local church gives 100 percent of its ties to the local conference whether they do that or not no one is really checking just like how your local Treasurer does not check your finances whether you're paying your tithes or not the local conference doesn't check so if a church gives $2.00 or they're giving $200000.00 they just want to make sure something is coming through but usually it's $2.00 a like well the membership is $5000.00 the rolling into dollars of something's going on and you might get a visit from your local conference President soon regarding that OK the local conference gives 16 percent of the vision 9 percent to the Union this is different for every everywhere conference but for example and then the local union gives 10 percent to the division and the division gives a certain percentage to the General Conference currently they don't any used to give 18 percent of its budget to the General Conference and everyone else gave 2 percent and now because they said that's so unfair so any do you want to go down to 2 percent and wants everyone else to come to 3 percent some of these divisions are really poor It's like going for 2 to 3 is really a big budgetary hit for us and so that's that's the current talk right now. I'm going to skip over some of these parts but basically get involved in. They may get involved and I'm not going talk about how to get involved one way to get involved is go to your local church board if you're a leader we have been abused by Archie going then. Because I remember a man my dad used to come away to a 2 in the morning for him to finish is she going to and how many fist fights how many yelling Have you experienced because of she won it and I got traumatized but she going it is supposed to be church boards are supposed to be really good experiences if if if you pray hard enough for that to happen what is the function of a church courts many people think it's about finances and about color of the carpet This is the purpose of church boards the board will study local field Committee recommendations for what evangelists the programs and methods that's the function of local church boards and in the finances as opposed to inflame the Evangelism the carpet color informs the evangelism but sometimes we talk about everything except evangelism it's just kind of added the agenda item you may be wondering your church you don't have enough money do evangelism you know enough people do evangelism not enough spirituality do evangelism OK So evangelism is I don't if you got it but you have edges so board meetings are boring. You have to call to order minutes reports and this is kind of this you know I want to go through all this you guys probably know this I didn't know all this how do you make a motion. To sing on the you know all the Korean words you want to know this process this is part of parliamentary process that every avenue asleep or should know there is interruptions 3 versions appointed privileges you've got lighting on you technical point of order is an error in the process in order information is clarifications G.C. session is happening next year in 2020 it will be. Live streamed 5 years ago they called it the point of order a phone because so many people did not know how this process works if you say Point of order you get to go right to the front of the line right and you get to say but if you have a point of order you can only say hey there's an error in process you skipped over this you didn't do this and can mention it but some people didn't know this so it's like Point of order they go up to the front Well I think that on it and they say that's not a point of order please sit down and summon up one American to go to the front skip this line it's an abuse of the system we need to know all these things on how they work now this is really sobering and then I'm going to take a little bit of time is that OK just a little bit more time to breeze through this say 10 attends every board meeting he attends every business meeting sometimes he's the only one there because the church members don't come up. He said every committee meeting if he can impress anyone's mind to make objections and to throw in suggestions that we delay the work hours and weary out those who are called upon to tend these mean is that happened. Totally that's like every Christian church porch meeting I ever been to and he's Satan's big screen really well. So she says here that board meeting should be spiritual exercises that you question your motives Sammon your motives that you do not unwisely criticize or condemn propositions sometimes it becomes a criticize a fun just to show how smart and angry you are she says this before a board meeting excessive amount of food eaten or improper combination does injurious work especially with board meetings how do you do in Korean culture. And it is how many of the humble you have a little you know humongous dinner and know that you're. Going to. Go in and then you have this thing that's where you're going is until like 2 in the morning and you go and you can't do nothing after that. She says I present this as a cause of situation in many counts and board meetings where questions to many careful study I've been given by little consideration of the decisions of the greatest importance I mean hurriedly me I mean she she knew this stuff was happening OK she says that this position is a witty things that create a laugh when the wants of the cause under construction a consideration whether a committee meeting a boarding or any other for business is not of Christ so some people make fun of it and just get all critical and just kind of be all snarky does not get praise through this OK last slide last slide this is less like My point is this let's grow up. Yeah like we are no 20 something 30 something 40 something 50 something 60 something we are Committee leaders in our work area we're in administration for hospitals where unlike you know the governor governments or whatever but when it comes to church we're still like kids. And you know we just go home and just sit with the 10 and we go. Let's grow up let's start cooking and bringing something to potluck. And men. I'm just going to go and some free food you know fair you. Know bring something crucial something to church. And when Nominating Committee says Do you want to do this say yes and even if you don't know what you're doing pray through it pray through it and stand up and become a leader for God or. Do you want God's grace to help you in this endeavor I know some aggressively well but not mean not mean no no no all of us because there's not a number of us in this community for anyone to say will not meet you know all of us and to get involved whether it's Korean whether it's American or the some hybrid in the middle or it's Indian or I'm on the whatever what it is let's get involved for Jesus let's pray. Father we saw need your Grace Lord we need courage in the way that we're been programmed we think it's about ability and competence but Father we just need your spirit help us to stand up to grow up and can only do this by your grace we ask for forgiveness for our unwillingness in the past and father because you were so gentle and so kind we know you will forgive us but we still want to ask. And then as we get into positions of leadership it's not about power or movement or or ambition but it's about fulfilling the Gospel commission in our local areas. So Father bless each of my brothers and sisters in a very special way of whatever Korean American Asian American they are on the spectrum and more and may all of us be part of this last they were. Spread the gospel into the hands of the. Premise Jesus name in this media was brought to you by audio verse a website dedicated to spreading God's word through free sermon audio and much more if you would like to know more about audio verse if you would like to listen to more sermons leave a Visit W W W audio verse or.


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