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A Combined Work – Physicians & Ministers

Eric Nelson


OBJECTIVES 1. Understand the Spirit of Prophecy council on ministers and physicians working together. 2. Discuss the relationship dynamics between pastors and physicians. 3. Identify opportunities in your church to improve medical evangelism.


Eric Nelson

Assistant Professor of Surgery, University of Tennessee, Chattanooga



  • November 1, 2019
    2:00 PM
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Did Jesus we're thankful for your blessings thankful for this conference time that we can come together and share share about what you are doing in our lives how it is you are using us to reach others we can hear testimonies from around the world about your work now for the next. Short time here as we are thinking about a combined ministry pastors and physicians working together I ask that you would through the power of your Holy Spirit. Allow each person here to catch a new vision for something new that they can do to serve you and to hasten your coming pray these things in your name Amen. See here if this is working. Those of you who are here for song service this morning I was amused by my father in law far and near the fields are teaming But of course he explained that we should be spelling it this way because who needs to be teaming up. Physicians and ministers or should we say pastors because we're all ministers exactly right aren't we were all ministers so pastors and physicians pastors and doctors we need to be working together and men so far and near the fields are teeming hopefully that will be true and that I already referenced our west peppers talk he said this I wrote it down true ministers and true physicians aren't that different all of them are supposed to be. Working for the eternal good of every single soul that they come in contact with right so physicians and ministers aren't really that different. This talk is kind of a follow on last year I know Teenie was here any of you here in my talk last year I worked with the Alvin Adams was here I shared with Patti Guthrie and with my Pastor Chris Anderson and we talked about the tale of 2 sit churches South Bay is a church that I attend and it's a very different church than the Mt Shasta church where Patti Guthrie attends but both of us our churches had this in common that we read Alvin Adams book and if you have not read this book then talk with this gentleman over here and figure out how you can get one. Or 2 couple cases of them and I give them to every single person who is active in Health Ministry in our church and asked them to read it so that we're all in the same page very practical and principles and practice of health evangelism. This is kind of the stuff that Chris Anderson and I were kicking around for this talk I'll just put my notes up there. These things in Boulder are some of the things that we were most interested in sharing and it's highly ironic that Chris is not here to help me out we're supposed to be a team and Christie if you're listening to this on audio verse. I still haven't quite forgiven you for ditching me but he's doing a good work we're in the middle of our evangelistic series and he's preaching tonight on baptism and so he couldn't really be here and follow up on all the interests that have been created there. We have several people there attending as a direct result of our help of Angeles I'm at least 2 that I can think of. One is a Catholic and the other I'm not sure what his background is but it's been inspiring to be able to work together with Pastor Chris in this evangelist It series he works together with us on all the health evangelism of the church I think he's the emcee or are there to provide spiritual support and spiritual thought at pretty much every single program that we do and just 2 days ago I had to share about the mark of the beast of the evangelistic series so that was I was exciting to be able to participate in that and then the week before I was able to preach about Daniel 7 and Revelation 13 and the United States and Bible prophecy and those sorts of things. I think it's important that pastors and physicians work together in both of these realms don't you talk about that little bit more. He should have been here to talk a little bit more about this it was as a result of coming to a man that. He became excited about health of vandalism and kind of by way of personal biography I am the health of vandalism coordinator for a church. But I have to say it was actually it's not usually the way it works usually there will be some physician or other health care professional in a church that says we need to do some health vandals and I just went to a man and this is going to be exciting let's do it on our church we're already doing some health evangelism largely as a function of being planted recently from the East Region church which is very active in health work but. Chris Anderson came to amen and read the principles and practice of health vandalism and he was the one who came to me and said we need to do more of this when you do it this way and that was inspiring to see how he was able to connect with another pastor here from the Greenville church germy are not all in there of course very active and healthy vandalism as well and share ideas and see how things are working back and forth. So I wish he would is here to share his perspective on some of those things but again he has to preach about baptisms nights so I guess we'll give him a pass this time I also want to say that. There's a little bit of a holy competition here between Greenville and South Bay We're winning this year there are I think 10 families from the south a church here and I think it's a testament to how excited we have become about health of vandalism and I'm excited to see that and of course I think the Greenville church only has 5 families here so just calling them out maybe next year we'll take the lead again but as your pastor here or other members from your church here might be something to think about what can you do to have your church your entire church become excited about health of vandalism. So we're going to talk about some of these things and here are the learning objectives that were printed in the program this is a c.m.e. activity you need c m a Be sure to sign your name out of the booth and they'll have to fill out a on line evaluation of this course and how well we do it covering these 3 learning objectives I'm not quite sure of the best way to go through this 123 there are 10 people here there are 10 people here thank you for pointing that out Tony that's very convenient because I just so happen to have 10 quotations from the Spirit of Prophecy elven Adams is going to give you one and we're going to take a short break will you read it think about it and then I'm going to come around with his microphone and ask you to share your thoughts. About what that quotation says. About ministers and physicians working together so take just a moment to read that over meditate on it think about it we'll also have them on the screen and just because. You're not limited to sharing about your own quotation you'll be able to look at everyone else as well and if there's some additional thoughts we'll share those as well take about 2 or 3 minutes right now just to think about that pray about that if any of you have additional quotations in the back of your mind that you'd like to share Feel free to look those up on your i Phone and we will all set a timer here for 2 or 3 minutes and we'll talk to those more some of the walk around try to do all of these things at once. Who has number one. Number one. They are numbered. You have number one that's a wonderful and what's your name. That's right Vanna feel free to hold I think we've put it on the screen so everyone is that the one you have up there I think it is when you just read that and then tell some your thoughts on it all right so Leva medical workers present the important truths of the 3rd angel's message from the physician viewpoint physicians off consecration and talent can secure a hearing in large cities the times when all the men would fail as physician unite with ministers and proclaim in the Gospel in the great cities of the land their combined labors will result in influence in many minds in favor of truth for the time this is a long line. It's a very much South x. planetary but as health care providers we are. Patients all knowing. Where to go to they invite us into their intimate lives they are vulnerable to us. And therefore they tend to trust the doctors or health care provider now a sister wife says. If the. Christian physician or Christian health care provider if we surrender. To cry and allow him to work with us in our. Van Of course we can do far more reach people that even some gospel workers are on able to reach and I can give you some. Some of my stories. I had a local physician called me a couple months ago she said Me attacks and she said Oh I am on my last cycle of chemotherapy and I said what I didn't know you had cancer she said yes I had breast cancer she vats particularly physicians she's been I'm 70 Adventist but she knows that I'm an Adventist doctor and she called to me to accept me if she could come to my church and have my pastor annoying to her. Physicians doctors I mean Christian physician if we surrender our lives then God will use us now many times your mind saying well I don't know the 3rd angel's message I am not a pastor I don't know this or I don't know that but that's where Sister White speaks about that come by in ministry where they have the health care provider should work along with the pastor and that is the true form of evangelism now I've had the privilege in working with many different pastors whether it's in the health of vandalism or general evangelism and combining because many people are open to hearing about health physical health and therefore if we if they know that they're going to be learning how to take better care for their health then we probably are have them a little more open also to healing the soul so I really do believe that. If we dedicate her allies as Christian physician then the Lord can use us mightily and I'll just give you can I take August 2nd. Before you do back up and tell me more about the lady who had breast cancer so yes why did she decide Ok I know you're 70 I want your pastor to annoy me while I write our Ok so I shortcut the story so I have a television show and I had invited her to come and discuss breast cancer on my show so I invited a group of female physicians and I said we're going to discuss. Physicians mean female health so her topic was breast cancer and she said would you know 3 months after I discussed breast cancer on your show I was diagnosed with breast cancer and of course I'm not in the community as a. As a Christian doctor she didn't answer pastor she knows about her lifestyle because I promote lifestyle medicine she knows about how we eat and all of that so she did not go to her church but she came to my church so on the Sabbath as she called my pastor and on the Sabbath the pastor spoke about a lifestyle surrendering your life and eating differently in lifestyle medicine in general so she came and she got annoying Ted then she had her mastectomy and would you believe that she had no canister seen in the lesion when she was totally healed and that was Americal and she has since returned to her church she has change your lifestyle she's now eating a plant based she meditates in all of its Christian physician and as the doctor Dr Simmons spoke this morning what are people in you want imprints are we really leaving and we just have to reflect Christ always and then thank you as I look at those quotes. And as I said previously it's important that physicians and pastors work together but does anyone want to comment about what the 3rd angel's message from the physicians point of view might look like Greg's got his hand up. Because you remember the 3rd angel's message right kind of shall we say direct strong what the physicians point of view on that well I I can only voice what I my understanding. It says that the 3rd angel's message is the righteousness of Christ in verity right. And my understanding of the righteousness of Christ is it's the birth perfect harmony of the law in the Gospel coming together as it was with as we witnessed in Jesus and as we bring Jesus into the center and so as we're discussing the medical problem that the patient has and we're talking about the principles of health we're talking about the laws of health and that relates directly to. The law of God and Jesus wants us to. We talk about the law of God to help the person understand how to go in the right direction but he wants us to have the compassion of Christ and the Gospel of Christ mixed in with the law so to speak as you're discussing the health problem and to take them to Jesus in that verbal e actually talking to them about the Great Physician and taking them to the Great Physician So you're still in your inner motions your attitude you want to have compassion and yet also uphold the standards that you know the person needs to reach to to reach health or to obtain health thank you I was wondering maybe twenty's or the mark of the beast there but that's not so far removed is that I mean that's natural law and we want to understand the connection between God's Law natural I guess Dr Kelly I just want to add Mike yes I would like to just I you know I mean really turn to Revelation 149 and 10 to refresh my mind and the 3rd angel followed them saying with a loud voice if any man worship the beast and his image and receive the mark in his forehead I'm sorry receive his mark in his forehead or in his hand the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation and he should be tormented with fire and brimstone the presence of the holy angels in the presence of the lamp and I looked at this. The present the important truth is plural of the 3rd angel's message from the physicians viewpoint and I was asking myself what is the physician's viewpoint on important truths from these 2 verses and I don't. But here's the thoughts that came to me and I love to hear others' thoughts about this very thing boy came to my mind is that the. 3rd angel the message is talking about the forcing of the conscience to worship. In essence an image made to the son in law the mark that that the Catholic Church claims is the evidence of their power and their authority and we have we as physicians to things can on time one is we increasingly are understanding the relationship between the mind in the body and between and the importance of the conscience in good health and so how I would approach this because the rest of this quote says. Physicians of consecration talent can secure a hearing in large cities at times when other men would fail so what I understand this text to be saying to me. Is that if we consecrated ourselves and and have spent the time to get the training and knowledge to have talent then God will give us the opportunity to have an audience when other people can't raise an audience and I believe that the way we do this is part of it is that we need to think in point like I give talks I'm sure you do too and whenever we give a talk we create a presentation we put together our thoughts we have learning objectives and I believe I have been working in asking God to help me to prepare those very presentations to be prepared to give a talk on the 3 angels the 3rd angels message from a physician's perspective which would not be in other words primarily from the Bible although it would be biblical but it would be from physiology from from psychology from the physicians perspective thank you yes real quick. I really leverage what we have 9 more to go here I really believe. I really believe in this what Ellen g. wanted to say and how do we leader a patient to Christ just saving the soul and not only of the body that's what I really believe even though she was the 3rd angel message but finally what we want is eternal life and how do we do that that's what we really need to think about thank you for your comments yes I just wanted to comment on the part secure hearing because we often think that maybe in a hall or presentation but in our day and age those hearings can be in any different media form television can be radio it can be I mean these things are broadcast over everything social media these are things that we I think need to start thinking about about how we can secure a hearing in large cities very good today attention your eyeballs are the prime thing that is sold on the Internet you understand that right that's why everything on the Internet is free it's not free they're selling your eyeballs your advertising real quick I swear we got we got 9 more to go remember and then that's just the 1st learning object I really appreciate John's comments and I think both Greg and I had the same response when we saw it for the 1st time I had ever seen the physician's view point. And our viewpoints as physicians have always as we treat people include the concept of informed consent and that as relating to the 3 inches message is absent we're talking about forced coercive behavior whereas from a physician's viewpoint we do not force or we should not coerce through the manipulation of information so that a patient chooses a line of treatment for them because we want them to good we should allow them freedom and let the truth set them free to make their decisions and for me that's the physician's viewpoint that I'm developing just in the Lowman to on that and I ask myself this question I read this it says it talks about you know physicians are consecration our talent to secure here where others fail that to me indicates a a status and that when we combine labors we must ask ourselves Are you willing to then take the respect and awe that people have for you in your profession and share or even transfer it to the mit to the minister of the gospel rather than she would say ha this stage I'm the physician I'm going I'm going to tell you what you must know and do can we share the the eyeball time or you know when that when that hearing is secured Will you give that away to your pastor partner would you even be willing to give away your time in salary so that he can have a nuff to put a roof over his head and make sure his kids get an education is like yours did well who has number 2 thank you all for sharing that's wonderful All right honey put it up on the screen there that is number 2 isn't it. Yes Yes Yes Ok if our physicians and our ministers can work together in the presentation of the truth to the people more can be. They could be influenced by the minister laboring alone a man very true I agree. But I'm leaving. The reason. I believe one of the greatest reasons for this is that. When. We are working together we can influence people but also people today will come to a health program that would never come to a spiritual program we see that all the time in our in at our center we seen it in our ministry that there are people that would come to our cooking school to our stress seminar to our wellness programs to all of our health programs but wouldn't come but once they come to these programs. And we share very wisely we share Christ right there in the health programs then we see that the people are open to spiritual things and we invite them to our spiritual programs in fact in our cooking schools and many of our health programs we do this but we will just literally at the end or near the end of our health program say it's a cooking school we will say something like this ladies and gentlemen you've been coming now for the last 4 weeks we have 2 more weeks to go and we've given you a principle that will help you to live even 10 to 12 years longer and so many of you have been thrilled and come up to us and said We love this program thank you for. Giving us these years of life but you know what we want to give you a 1000000 trillion years of life eternal life and so if you would like to come to our next program called revelation of hope we would like you to just fill up our church would you just pass out the programs right now and just pass out the brochures programs but the brochures and I should so passed out the brochures and inside the brochure we will have a pre-registration card and on that pre-registration card will say if you would like to pre-register for revelation of hope the next one that will give you your eternal life then you can just sign up for that and will reserve us the and as you go out just hand it to the host or hostess at the door and we have had literally scores and scores little a hundreds of people in fact in one program we had a 100 people that transition from our cooking school into our revelation of hope and so people are always wondering how can you transition from the health programs you see if we're just giving health education then the community can do that. That's right but if we're doing health ministry then we are 7th Day Adventists have a whole new you know responsibility and so we feel that in every program that we conduct on health that we give them an opportunity to come to our next program right now we just finished our wellness program we have right now every Tuesday night we have about 16 and we're just a little church where a new church that we've just raised up and we have 16 known Adventists that are coming and we have some Adventists too that are coming to the spiritual program on the parables every Tuesday night and. So I believe that if our physicians and ministers work together in presenting the truth then more people will be reached because more people will come to help then if we try to give a Bible study if we just try to go out and give a Bible study. If we knock on doors for example I teach people how to knock on doors and how to do surveys and you know when we're out there knocking on these doors and we do a survey on biblical Fames we may get only a few people that will sign up for bible studies but if we go out there and knock on doors and then ask them the questions that we do if there was only one lecture that could be held in town tonight which one would you be most interested in Bible prophecy just general Bible study health or family and will have different options by enlarge and I've done thousands of these all over the world I did door knocking down in Australia and it was amazing down in Melbourne Australia and we will have more people that will respond to the health but the key is this that we've learned over 53 years. Is the key is that if you're going to say if you're going to put that on your on your survey what do you have to give to the people so we give to the people all yes what we're having a natural lifestyle cooking school and here's a brochure we're beginning in just 2 weeks from tonight and so we would like you to sign up or we're having a stress management program or a wellness program here's a brochure so when they're interested in something then you give them something and so we have where I believe that if we work together if a pastor tries and my husband is an effective pastor and effective worker and Vangelis loser but me yeah. But look but the thing is this if you. He has to work alone then he cannot influence the way that if we have our physicians and and our medical people giving health programs and working together and never going to have that influence and the other reason that it's going to be more influence is that I feel that as we get teams together God is going to blast so much more because you know what there is no star of Angelus there's no star preacher there's no star worker there is no star physician God wants everybody to be a star and as we work together God is going to blast $100.00 fold more so I believe that we will influence more and we will have more results if we can work together and I have a burden for us to work together so I we just are going to open a new health retreat center I just want to say this one more thing that we're going to open up a new health retreat center it's for pastors because our pastors have no place to go and we just bought a $1200000.00 building on 10 acres of land and but now I just got the idea when we're here that we need to have some of our pastors coming with some of our physicians and we need to combine them because as they work together we're going to have more result good so we just got a new idea right here and see the fruits of that who is number 3 thank you and who is number 4 All right good you guys are kind of sitting beside each other for sake of time here's what I'm going to do you don't have to read the whole thing out loud it's going to be on the screen I'll give people a few seconds to read it on a look at both 3 and 4 and they're kind of complimentary as you see so actually I guess for sake of the record a good read a really quick there Franklin the Gospel minister should preach the health principles for these have been given to God as a monk the means needed to prepare people perfect character. Therefore health principles have been given to us that as a people we might be prepared in both mind and body to receive the fullness of God's blessing the medical missionary work has its place and part in this closing gospel work all right thank you that continues this is the same article this is of I split it up just for sake of space on the screen this is the same continuation here and see if you see how these things are related to Krishna position as a high calling with his fuller knowledge of the human system and its laws he is in a position to preach the gospel of salvation with much efficiency and power the 1st and chief object of the Gospel and all that pertains to it is to seek to save that which is lost the Ministry of the gospel whether by the minister or the visitation is to reach out to a man to man a helping hand where ever it is needed it is to minister to the sick and suffering physically as well as to the sin sick soul hear the Gospel minister and the Christian physician unite and the Bible worker in her visit from house to house as well all right thank you so Franklin any comments about yours fact it might be helpful to us the Andrews as well there I will give him a moment as well yeah I like it it's very direct but the Gospel minister is charged with the responsibility of preaching health principles it's not the older traditional view that the Gospel ministers preach the conscience of the of the of the Bible or peer process though they're instructed that they should be expected to. Included in their message is you preach health principles but that the reason given here is pretty clear that the whole point of the health message is to foster and achieve perfection of character and that I'm inferring from this quote that we as a people you know given to us are to get that as we get 1st dibs we're 1st in line to that God gave that to us and we're to accept that act on it and then we'll be prepared to use that to then expand the circle of influence to those who are not part of us as a people thank you Andrew any comments on your quote here so here we saw the Gospel ministers supposed to be doing what preaching health principles so what about the physician. You know the yeah the physicians the high calling and where to work together with the with the with the pastor. You know I never supposed to visit people in their houses like that house as it's. Something that's been lost nowadays but maybe something that we should return to you know yeah you go to all of the ministers. He is in a position to preach the gospel of salvation with much efficiency and power. That that is quite striking you know I think that. It's interesting that she's saying here as a physician we have a perspective that maybe the ministers do not have the perspective that we bring up my chief efficiency and power thank you interest so I thought these quotes were excellent you have a gospel minister is preach health principles here's why as Franklin said to perfect the people in character the Christian vision is to preach the gospel of salvation this quote Pastor Chris found this and it jumped out to him and he wrote me an e-mail says I think you need to be preaching more and I need to be doing more health classes and it's true do you see that there is a unity that this calls for here the Gospel minister in the Christian physician unite the Ministry of the gospel whether by the minister or the physician it's the same thing goes along with what Wes Pepper said this morning thank you who has the next the next quote here all right number 5. Going to read that very quickly and then comments ministers and physicians are to work harmoniously with earnestness to save souls that are becoming entangled in snake snares they are to point men and women to Jesus their righteousness their strength and the health of their continent countenance continually they are to watch for souls there are those who are struggling with strong temptations and danger of being overcome in the fight with say 10 occasions he says will you pass these by without offering them assistance if you see a soul in need of help engage in conversation with them with him even though you do not know him pray with him point him to Jesus this work belongs just as surely to the doctor as to the minister by public and private effort the physician should seek to win souls to Christ. So the so again this is bringing in the harmonious are and similar activity of the physician and the minister that we need to be sensitive to those in need listening to the Holy Spirit and directing people to Jesus not just. Diagnosing them and giving them a treatment you know in the traditional physician activity but looking always to point our patients to Jesus when whenever we can continually watching for souls thinking about where their soul is at and the strict temptations that they have and the struggles that they have in a spiritual sense so that we may pray with them and point them to Jesus who can fix that problem you know so much of what we deal with his physicians and health workers are spiritual problems they may come in with a g.i. bleed but they actually have a spiritual problem because of the alcoholism or whatever and we so often in the hospital on the collect that fact and don't adequately. Take time with that and so I think that we can learn for if we spend more time with ministers and doing the spiritual work we can learn how to how to be more sensitive to that aspect and can become more skillful in our work to help people have full healing not just physical but spiritual healing. Thank you I think Dr Adams number 6 Number Number 6 is really a condensation of what you read in number 5 and it is speaking to the physician it says there is to be no division between the ministry and the medical work the physician should labor equally with the minister and with as much earnestness and thorough and us for the salvation the soul as well as for the restoration of the body and so I think this is telling us that the work of the minister in the work of the physician is exactly the same as the minister there is not to be any division they need to work equally and if you're really concerned about a diagnosis because you're a doctor you should be equally concerned about the soul as the minister would be thank you number 7 and number 7 Dr Kelly. In this effort in behalf of the cities we need we greatly need the cooperation of all classes of laborers especially do we need the help that the physician can render as an evangelist if ministers and physicians will plan to unite in an effort to reach the honest hearted ones in our cities the physicians as well as the ministers will be placed on vantage ground as they labor and humility God will open the way before them and many will receive a saving knowledge of true you know what I take out of this that we haven't really seen so plainly in previous text all those very harmonious use here especially the need of a physician as an evangelist and this is exciting to me because that's exactly what took me later in life into medicine was to be a medical evangelist in fact when I was in the my pre-med in my forties I was being asked by my professors what I kind of medicine I wanted to do and I said I want to be in a medical evangelist so I'm apologetic I've asked God Lord make me a medically Vangelis and I believe he's been honoring that I'm very anxious to see what the rest of these texts have to say. My own father in law would people ask him what his profession was on the Gospel medical mission or health and lost people kind of look at him and you could tell a lot about a person and their response to that you could tell how much they history in our church they knew and how much they had read of these type of quotations and I would kind of give them a hint of what to say next Ok who's got number 8 Dr Aha. So. The importance of our making our way in the great city this deal came before me in this work physicians and got so many I needed we must proceed our petitions to the Lord and do our best pressing forward with all the energy possible to make an opening in a large serious Had we in the past worked after the last planned many lives will be shining brightly that are going out. And it is a power for thanks to my initial impression palm when I read this was a wide emphasis on bigger cities was given the differences between the cities and their smiles sister and daughter came to me was that maybe it is because in the bigger cities who have more options in the bigger cities will have more temptations that topically are to the bigger cities in the bigger cities they are more destruction us so that means that. Physicians on health care workers projects in the biggest cities we have a unique opportunity to reach out to sources in need of from times I come in just because of the area where protests oftentimes I come in touch with patients who have lost loved ones to to gun violence arm maybe patients who are suffering from HIV Aids patients who. Have made mistakes in their lives due to the freedom of living in the midst of want to pull up shots so this test they say are a minder to us that's of course we've all established the fact that we need to work together we diminish most of the Gospel but as physicians in particular we need to seek out the opportunities where we should actually work after the last blood. It's interesting let's go to has a plan I'm not blind he says well stated in the bible however job he supports alt Dick diplomacy of God to dogs who has a predator before us because he can say this might be Ok 10 commandments this might be the laws of health but when we want to do we it's a cut into understanding of the patient's needs that's where we fall into the same problem as the people whom we seek to hope that dairy supply and that God has laid out our job to just follow the plan it doesn't really matter what outcomes may be just point out your splines to be patient. You see there was in the past worked up to the Lord's plans I would ask us are we now working according to the Lord's plan it's a good question I have one minute left to do the 2 other learning objectives so with your indulgence I'm sorry for you I think I missed the 2 of you perhaps apologize here are the quotations. I will read in for sake of the recording and then without comment to try to say something about the other 2 objectives here ministers and positions sound an alarm call upon the people of God to be true and faithful be on your guard remember that as you cooperate with God you have as your helpers angels that excel in strength medical missionaries and workers in the gospel ministry are to be bound together by indissoluble ties. You might remember how many of you have read this book the souls of several of you have read it if you haven't I recommend it its kind of based on this quotation when the Gospel minister and the medical missionary workers are not united there is placed on our church is the worst evil that can be placed there do you believe that. It's very interesting to think that one through from Loma Linda messages page 59 so this topic we're talking about is extremely important. I don't have time to interview you as I was hoping to about this topic I will tell you that I'm thankful West peppers said this this morning so it takes it off me I'm not saying this is Wes he said that pastors are sometimes what he said lazy and incompetent that's what he said not mean outs I'm not saying that and if pastors if you're listening this is definitely not you he's the type of Pastor that will do all of the janitorial work if you let it so Wes peppers said that sometimes perhaps on average pastors are perceived as lazy and incompetent as I was talking to my wife about this it does seem that if you can't and again Wes Pepper said this If you can't figure out what else are going to do go on through college just be a minister you heard that it's true it is terrible on the other hand doctors are sometimes what it west covers say they're arrogant cocky they have a God complex they're harsh they're cutting and as I've been thinking about this for quite some time do you see why the relationship dynamics between ministers and physicians could be strained at times. Yeah why is that it seems to me that they are experts in different domains I think on average it's likely true that those who end up as physicians have higher i.q. than average would you agree with that assessment however it also seems to me that those who end up being effective pastors might have higher e.q. who's than average the one work with facts and knowledge and statistics. Pathways of care the other work with people and that's in some cases a lot harder at least for me. It might be oh here's another thing that I've thought about the doctor is working with. I'll give you an example from my own life on the top of the food chain in the operating room there's a group of probably 10 people that are only there to serve me and my needs so that I can help the patient that goes to my head West talked about that it's very it happens everybody there saying yes or yes or yes doctor how can I help you Dr whatever it is I get it I'd say I need this instrument someone will run across the hospital if need be they will send someone in a car to another hospital to get the instrument that I need I have that kind of authority if you will in my office I have a nurse and a bill or enough front desk and have all sorts of people and they are all there to serve me and make me comfortable So presumably I can help the patients do they ever call me out on stuff to ever tell me I'm lazy or incompetent No of course not because I could fire them think about the pastor a pastor is working with volunteers by and large he thought about that there's a whole different power dynamic there they can just walk away they can quit the pastor does not have the same type of authority it's a moral authority it's not a. More of a forced or authority if you will my patients are going to walk away from me they have cancer they're further going to die but if a pastor preaches something that people don't like what happens they walk away can you can you see the difference in the personalities that develop underneath those pressures and what happens in those work together entirely different domains of knowledge entirely different backgrounds entirely different normal interactions with everyday life. And when those 2 people don't work together well the worst evil is placed on our churches that can be placed there can you see how doctors and pastors might compliment each other however. Would it be helpful if you had someone with higher i.q. to help. I'll use myself as an example a surgeon with perhaps a lower than average each you would that be helpful yes it would would it also be helpful for pastors perhaps to have some guidance from. Someone who has more experience with quackery to guide in what might be wise and unwise health of vandalism approaches can you see that that might be helpful as well so there are different relationships that can develop between pastors and physicians it can be very positive or can be very negative allow me to say this in your relationship with your pastor I think it's very important that you recognize their authority I'm speaking to physicians here it's very important you recognize their authority recognize that they have more tact than you do that they approach people differently and that that is valuable and I think it's important that physicians tell their pastors that they have the permission to rebuke them and be a spiritual authority to them. Do you think that's hard for pastors sometimes with positions there are financial deny now mix in many churches there are all sorts of power dynamics there that can be very unhealthy so it's important for physicians to tell their pastors that they have that permission so again I recognize that recommend that you read this book called The Sozo by Dave Fiedler has a new book that even easier to read especially toward the end that I think is very helpful. We don't have time to go over learning objective number 3 identify opportunities in your church to improve health evangelism this was our plan that we presented last year for our church and by and large these graduation sabots have been very helpful we're still doing dinner with the Dr we've added some cooking classes after our presentation last year we added a stop smoking program because we were so excited to hear what Patti Guthrie had to say but you know what none of those things work I have decided this after reading some of these books and thinking just this morning what works is personal unselfish service and I sometimes think that all of these programs it's kind of yeah I get someone to go to this program this one this one they'll come to some shopping tourism gets no excuse in Bible studies go to profs seminar be baptized that's the plan and as a physician I've outlined the plan we're going to follow the flow sheet but that's not always the way it works. This is from Francis Peabody one of the essential qualities of the clinician is interest in humanity for the secret of the care of the patient is caring for the patient patients know and people know when they come to your health program whether you really care about them or whether you don't. I wish I had time to tell you a story that happened just 3 days ago. My wife and one of these health programs met someone and invited them over to our home and they came and they were spiritually very open it's that personal touch that personal unselfish service that allows us to connect with people. This is the future for our church and we're taking lessons from the Finley's church and trying to develop a location that based on the geography based on the layout and design will be a witness in this community to reach people with the Gospel My prayer is that each one of you as you think through what it is Jesus asks you to do in the community that you are in how is it that you can improve as a medical evangelist How is it that you can learn unselfish service from Jesus. Lets our heads for prayer to Jesus We each need to learn from you the master medical Evangelist the master gospel medical missionary help us in our churches to as we interact with the pastoral staff to recognize that you have placed them there with spiritual authority to guide your church help us to value the emotional intelligence the expertise in building relationships and reaching out to people and navigating complex web. Of relationships give us. Physicians a desire to work together to give us a ability to recognize the value of working together with our past or colleagues. Recognize the dangers that exist if we don't. We surrender our lives in our ministries to you help us to recognize you've called us just as much to call any pastor to minister to the spiritually. Every single. Reasons to. Make us effective missionaries for Jesus. This media was brought to you by audio verse a website dedicated to spreading God's word through free sermon audio and much more if you would like to know more about audio 1st if you would like to listen to more sermon or leave a visit w w w dot audio Verse dot org.


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