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Logo of InVerse, 3rd Quarter 2020: Foundations of Discipleship

03-Power of Discipleship - Prayer

Israel Ramos Justin Kim Sikhu Daco Jonathan Walter


Do you sense your need for prayer the way you sense your need for air?



  • July 13, 2020
    9:00 AM

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When's the last time you've been wrong before someone without a filter words coming out that you never thought you'd say emotions coming out and when's the last time you were robbed before God Find out on this episode of adverse. Coming to you from Silver Spring Maryland welcome to. The Bible based conversation on my principle the time for everything and talk about. Now here's your host just in time with him. Hey friends out there we want to greet each one of you with a warm welcome here on in verse I want to invite my friends who are all around the world in their own home studios in the midst of the season and we are studying together the theme of discipleship and if you want to follow along with us in our Bible study guides you can go to inverse Bible dot org once again in verse Bible God orgy and there you'll see our past episodes and past Bible study guides and follow along with us in our discussion going to Luke Chapter 11 today for this episode and going to have a word of prayer in secret and you pray for us. A loving father we are thankful for the opportunity that we have to study you know would and within will or the gift of prayer that we can communicate with you not just us and you but we can open our hearts up so we pray that as we have this divine interaction that all eyes will be blessed so that we can be a blessing to others as well Hades. I mean thinks he can do Jonathan you can go to Luke Chapter evil of in Luke Chapter 11 and for those who are out there who are watching please get your Bibles out you turn them on whatever you got to do and read with us this program called in verse so we want to be in the verse and some passages are a little bit long and we do that because we want to get the full context of what Jesus is trying to say so Johnson can you read from verses one to Will Well let's see verse one when I wrote look 11 now it came to pass as he was praying in a certain place when he ceased that one of His disciples said to him Lord teach us to pray as John also taught his disciples so he said to them when you pray say Our Father in heaven hallowed be your name your kingdom come your will be done On earth as it is in heaven give us day by day our daily bread and forgive us our sins for we also forgive everyone who is indebted to us and do not lead us into temptation but deliver us from the evil one. And he said today which of you shall have a friend and go to him at midnight and say to him friend let me 3 loaves for a friend of mine has come to me on his journey and I have nothing to set before him and he will answer from within and say Do not trouble me there are doors now shops and my children are with me in bed I cannot arise and give to you I say to you though he will not arise and give to him because he is his friend yet because of his persistence he will arise and give him as many as he needs saying so I say to you no verse verse 9 here so I say to you ask and it will be given to you seek and you will find knock and it will be open to you for everyone who asks receives and he who seeks finds and to him who knocks it will be opened if a son asked for bread from any father among you will he give him a stone or if you ask for a fish Well he give him a serpent instead of a fish here we see a wonderful passage Jesus talks about prayer and I want to ask Israel can you kind of recapitulate recap for us and what we talked on discipleship and link this to our topic today on our prayer so the book of Luke is actually a manual one discipleship in from the very beginning to the very end it discusses this important topic of discipleship it gives us 2 basic pictures one of the pictures that portrays of discipleship is this picture of the journey and many times you hear him refer to the people of the way they are going on the way or being a part of the way this is referencing the journey that a disciple takes from being of color to Christ from the beginning all the way to the u.n. in other important picture that my favorites that is portrayed in the book of Luke is also this picture or this idea that discipleship is something that takes place within a family circle and so over and over in the book of Luke you will see how there are these these titans into the family circle and this is kind of what is taking place in Luke Chapter 11 essentially will stay. In Clay's you find Jesus Christ speak you know his disciples and telling them how you know the flock of God that God in heaven is like a father like these that aside people on this earth are like his children and so he begins to portray this picture of a family be a picture between a father and a son and in this context in this dialogue prayer emerges and so in order to have a real whether it's a relationship a family which is the foundation of the basic foundation of these family units or between husband and wife there needs to be 3 things that happen. I need to be able to speak there need to be dialogue I need to be able to speak with the people within my family circle the 2nd thing is I need to be able to listen people need to speak to me and I need to be able to listen to them and thirdly my family relationship needs to expand between just my husband and wife and husband and children modern children to the rest of the world in other words there's an impact that explains it starts in the family circle but it extends beyond it well that's essentially what is taking place and Luke is addressing the conversation that we have got we speak. Now those are some great insights about family in the book of Luke let's actually go to verse verse one of Luke 11 and says now came to pass as he was praying in a certain place that he ceased and one of His disciples said to him Lord teach us to pray I think that's just so profound there it shows you that it shows at least for me that prayer can be taught it's not something inherent in people it's not a gift it's not a supernatural. Spiritual Gift so to speak every Anyone can can learn how to pray so I can have something that perhaps the disciples before didn't know how to do or did and didn't do well but afterwards were able to mimic or copy or to do as Jesus. I want to ask you what are what are some insights that you see from from prayer and discipleship from this passage in the glove and. I mean going with. The idea of seeing Jesus praying that something that they wanted to mimic that seeing the example of Jesus is what met them to a desire to do it so it was something that they saw there was something special in the way that Jesus when he prayed to his father that they hadn't seen elsewhere apparently because it teaches how to pray the way that you are praying and so as disciples like wanting to have the kind of relationship that Jesus had with his father to ask that Jesus with to step out of so I guess in discipleship it's important to be able to communicate with our Heavenly Father says she has communicated with his heavenly father and I like when you say that it's something that can be taught it's not just something that can be taught but it's something that Jesus wanted to teach because he could have said no I'm not going to teach you right now but he goes on to teach them give them a model for this is what it looks like when you pray and you talk to your heavenly Father and so got Jesus and wants us to be able to communicate with our Heavenly Father so it's part of our experience in our relationship with God I appreciate the family dynamic and the title that Jesus used for God as Father that is all talked about and then you also brought up that Jesus prayed in a way that was that the disciples thought Man desists this is something different and we want to do that Jonathan I want to ask you what what was that and when did we have to be do we have to be should we I guess how my source of phrases question do we have to witness that or can we have I don't know my purposes are totally wrong. Even here in 2020 can we sense Jesus type of prayer that make sense. I'm not sure but I'm still kind of. What I think I found profound that as the cassette that the disciples heard Jesus' prayer and they were so inspired by that there must have been something about the prayer that was different to what it was that I mean it wasn't like voice or was inflection like well I guess that's what I'm getting at well Jesus in a different spot says talks about you know useless repetitions that have been going on maybe maybe there was a source of form of prayer going on in the temple that was just repetitive or the same phrases or you know a certain Bible verse that in an often sells on a bet but if you do it mindlessly there's no real connection going on you know and so they probably heard Jesus talk to his father as a son talks to his father and there was something real about it it was a deep connection and I'm sure I mean they saw Jesus they were with him that's what the subject is all about right spend time with him to heard him talk to his father about the real things that are going on they heard him weeping they're hurting him him him struggling with things later on in the Bible you know in the gospels we have recorded prayer in the garden to get them any We're being told that the disciples were sleeping with someone must have heard Jesus prayed there in agony you know Father not my will but your will so because it was recorded so you know they were close to him they heard him talk to his father and it was real raw and organic to use a buzz word so really and he was it was a vain repetition and empty thing it was a very close and intimate that he had into the great irony where where Jesus then prays what we call the Lord's Prayer and just to your point that Jesus didn't pray in vain repetitions but yet now in modern contemporary Christianity there are many of us who do pray the Lord's prayer maybe not and in vain way but we do repeat it and sometimes just verbatim without actually thinking about it and and how that Roy. All organic experience as you say is what I want to ask you so we went from Jesus's teachings to disciples and then he goes into Lord's Prayer and then he bust into a parable Can you explain this parable what the connection is here with prayer and we can juice a lot out of this because this is one of Jesus' essential teachings in the book of Luke as you mentioned. As as as we mentioned before in the Lord's Prayer we're referring to God in Heaven as the Heavenly Father and so this is actually more than anything what what Jesus wants to do is you want to give us an understanding as to what is the character of God And he saying look the character of God is like an earthly father but a 1000000 times better and so he says as you in order in so in order to give us this picture of what the character of God looks like you then tells the parable of someone who is not like God at all and he says there's a certain when he comes to another friend in the middle of the night at an unreasonable time he asks for an unreasonable request and the person who was inside his friend who was inside at midnight in bed with his children he responds from inside and he says leave me alone I can't get up to fulfill your need and then Jesus gives us a punch line there are some things that we will not do because of friendship in other words there are limitations to friendship but there aren't any limitations between your heavenly father and yourself in other words where in human relationships we have limits there are no limits there's nothing that God is not willing to do for the salvation of humanity and so he says there are limits of friendship I will not arise and give you because you're my friend but because of your persistence I will give you as many as you need and so look just trying to portray your a picture of the fact that God is able to give us what we need and God is willing to give us what we need but many times we stop we don't persist in our conversation with God because we give up too early and. My different angle that I kind of understand this is that because they were friends that he was able to be persistent because they were they were. They were they were good friends and here Jesus was saying like look isn't if you can do this on a human level how much more with God to. Long with your friendship and your persistence received more how much more able is God able to answer as your primate I just remember I mean our one time in that I needed something and I actually called Israel and I was like man should I bother it wasn't at midnight and he wasn't in the bed with his kids I was just thinking like it's Israel like I know I can bank on this and because we're friends and because this is an emerging situation that I think he will he will follow through and so I call them and he didn't really pick up so that was that's a different situation that's a different parable altogether the ordinary even the good billet was there. And it's it's very interesting to. See that scene that Jesus plays out here the kind of as you mentioned earlier the shamelessness of it which teaches them that you can be quote unquote seen this with God You can be told the real with him you can and noisy God Not really he was going to be annoyed but you can you can feel like you're annoying God because he would rather have you talk to him even if it's you know maybe a negative thing than not talking to him at all so Jesus is telling us come at whatever time talk about whatever you want to talk to and just come and talk to me he wants that communication that connection with us I really love that story that you put in here tonight to simply hear well hold on thought Israel we go to break and we come back and we'll listen to what Israel has to say in defense of my story about him. As impressed been a blessing to do you have questions comments off the back you'd like to leave us find us on social media by searching. On Facebook Twitter and Instagram for you to while there join us like us contest comes up next the handle again and invest Bible non-state Now back to the discussion. Hey welcome back friends going to go to Israel for his response. In the previous in the previous segment we were talking about persistence and John was talking about how it's not there's a difference between persistence and vain repetitions and many times you ask ourselves a question like why does God make us be so persistent and you know this might my my oldest boy he's graduating from 8th grade and he has a special gift that he really really wants and he's asking for this gift like almost every single day as a matter of fact he even asked last night when I go home more ask about it again and he finds subtle ways to bring it up so I always to bring up this topic the funny thing is he doesn't know is that I already actually bought the gift for him I had a right here right and right in the studio that meant this and know that having just announced I didn't even know I just put it as if you know that. I already got it now the war reason why I don't tell him I have it is because he's a major Now you know he really has any conversations with and so this is a great. Predikant. And so many times this is a thing like if God answers our prayer immediately Number one we won't appreciate the gift as much Number 2 will cease praying of God gives us what we want to be of you will stop talking that's just human nature and so a lot of times in person there to help us develop a relationship with God and also to help us more clearly understand his character and I think that's why God allows this this persistence as a necessity in conversation in conversation with him and that's something that kind of. I think that's a fact that there's interest. Here and I'm ending on a thing or 2 that. Say that I really like that because the thinking about cricket as as part of a relationship not as a slot machine but where you go in you a lot more no vending machine vending machine to slot machine it's Temple interesting you going to deposit you programming on that. If you get what you want but it's not just going to get what you want from God but it's actually a conversation in the context of relationships. And because sometimes we view it as a vending machine that I just want to go to God and get what I need from him and then I can go about my life being persistent get difficult but going back to look test 11 this assistance is a context of a friendship right so it seems like the friendship emboldens the individual to continue persisting with their requests in the context of the sentence like you know I have what I need to have what I need you know like he's not going to send me to jail for banging on his door because we're friends you may not want to get out of bed because it's late but we're friends you know this kind of like a relationship context in which this persistence happens I think that part of you know I got the quiet assistance from us is to develop that relationship that friendship with him. Yeah persistence in the presence of God is really the process of tuning into his will because we don't know his will we don't understand righteousness but God is changing us right the process of sanctification he transforming our lives and the more time we spend with him the more we persist as the more we will learn his will we will realize oh this thing I've been persisting on might actually not be good for me sometimes the silence of God in the light of persistence is teaching us about him and then when he does enter it teaches us also about Ok this is something that is in harmony with this will so persistence in his presence transforms understanding of who he is and gives us a greater appreciation also for the character of God I love how you all have been brought out the theme of persistent and later on in verses what 9 through 13 Luke is really emphasizing the goodness of God and it's something that Israel has brought out the good character and I think these 2 ingredients are so crucial because if God wasn't good and he just God wanted us to be persistent if we could take Israel's object lesson he just kind of like you know dragging us along on this game just because he needs someone to talk to and is teenager on us won't talk to him but we know that God is a good God and we know that Israel was a good dad and probably there's going to be a relationship that's that deepened after the gift but the to work together to work together and the apex really seems in verse 11 I'm sorry verse 13 which we didn't read in the open in verse 13 if you then being evil I think that's just really profound insight into the nature of humanity would have time for that but you being evil know how to give good gifts your children how much more will you give while your heavenly Father gives other versions and Matthew says good things but here in Luke specifically says the Holy Spirit has to those who act. So tie this in discipleship how what is she is trying to teach in the larger picture for every disciple from his original 12 all the way down to us what are the principles of prayer for the site for us all with Israel was the the foundation of God's character is love that's clearly what he establishes in this passage and he's basically saying you will not persist in prayer if you do not really believe deep inside your mind that God is good we won't persist in prayer if we don't believe either God is good and that he has the bread to give to us and lastly that we have nothing to give the people before us because you have this friend that come visit my date's or nuts or something he would say look I don't have much but your it is yours what I have right and that's a temptation that many I think we have we think we have something to offer but the foundation of the site must be I have nothing to offer the people God is good and he has what I need in order to be successful disciple of him and of me as an evil person if I know how to give good gifts to my children then the question is how much more will it was the Holy Spirit the Holy Spirit by the way is the universal gift if you look at the Book of Acts the Holy Spirit gives Commandments the Holy Spirit fills people those spirit discernment the Holy Spirit gives comfort boys Spirit gives whatever you need at that time the Holy Spirit is the answer is the universal answer and he's willing to give reasons that. Something. Yeah it's a powerful gift the Holy Spirit is God's presence it is God in your life and what the text actually says in the Greek is that this and it comes back to persistence it says here how much will you have in the Father give the host good to those who ask him to greet indicates a continual form of asking this is a daily thing a daily connection because your capacity to receive more and more of God is really like God eternal and so as we walk with God as we are disciples of Jesus through the presence of the Holy Spirit in our lives who we can ask for we are transformed changed and powered as will the saying in the book of Acts he was guiding the disciples into witnessing into into amazing opportunities to share more about Jesus with others which means this is what it means to be a disciple to be filled with His presence and that happens in this time of prayer in a continual prayer exercise just like we breathe the air we in the same way we need to pray and have this constant connection with God as disciples of Christ. I love the foundation that you're all laying here is that there's a specific this factor the old King James calls it in part to nitty we don't use that word anymore but that persistence like we talked about in another point is not just repetition repetition repetition repetition but it's foundation is in the relationship is through the Holy Spirit it's it's a it's a persistence of a fervent sea of zeal. There's this concept of Shana less than this that we need before God a raw open this and that's something that's developed not through some kind of you know some some manual or some book or through some just just principles to follow that's that's an organic thing I think that's that's very it's a hard think describe just from you know a program so to speak any moment now I'm just so sorry it's developed based on sense of that's what is the moment if you can't store he's got nothing to offer that's really to be raw that's what he's going to be crazy and Sunni and dramatic because he understands he's got nothing to offer and I think when we have reached that place in our experience then we will really learn weaves to be God But what's funny is like what comes to mind is like when we're talking to each other like even in this in this and it's format that we have here with the 4 screens or even in our friendships or it just any relationship there's like the social rules like hey we're supposed to do this don't do this like I don't go up there and just kind of like look in the forehead and like you know I don't see this couple like we always have these be so sure but there are also these There's also the His there's other other things like hey maybe I shouldn't say this way they may understand me the wrong way or am I going to say this right use this word or whatever there's always this these these these layers that that impact or communication but with God all these layers are out and it's just you know heart to heart no rules no no. No rules of engagement no rules of whatever I just it's just it's pure and that's that's that's the communication that that Jesus out with the father very very profound. Practice for me too I mean to be inspired by as as the Siple you know my thoughts go to 1st us alone Ians chapter 5 where or where Paul says that we should pray without ceasing Yeah so can you Kowen Johnson Titus and the sea saying. Persistence the passion she create a composite picture for us here well so as we discussed the persistence is not about repetitions It's about showing depth and God cares having a connection with him through which we are transformed persistence is the process through which God teaches us about his loving character and he shows us in the process that he's good that he's going to help us I mean we didn't even touch upon a subject of spiritual warfare and prayer prayer is so much more than just talking to God It is also learning from him how to interact with this world how to witness and how to break down spiritual barriers in our own lives and the lives of other people so being a disciple of Jesus means to be a prayerful soldier for Christ who more and more becomes like Jesus in the process of walking with him and prayer is essential as we said earlier it's like breathing in the process of the point about how to interact with the world through prayer that has a profound point to seek who. Well I just want to point out that at the beginning of the passage that we read the disciples asked Jesus teach us how to pray and what we've been discussing you know demonstrates that Jesus yes he gave them the Lord's Prayer that when you study it it's principles that you can implement in your prayer life but he didn't just give them a formula you gave them there's an attitude that you approach God with when they said teach us how to pray that prayer is not what you're saying but about the relationship that you have. I want to thank each of my friends for their wonderful insights on prayer please follow our episodes Past Present and Future of Hope t.v. dot org And join our social media channels thanks so much for joining us we'll see you next week you're on and you've been listening to inverse a Bible based conversation with the Alaric that's wrong with the Jonathan Law that Sebastian Braxton seeker Dr Herbst just an. Inverse is brought to you by the hotel room television that changes along with this and more inspiring every story there's an interest that help to forge a harness on social media. In the 1st 5 until next time this is enforced.


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