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Logo of InVerse, 3rd Quarter 2020: Foundations of Discipleship

10-Process of Discipleship - Preserve

Justin Kim Sebastien Braxton Jonathan Walter Callie Williams



  • August 31, 2020
    9:00 AM

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40 percent imagine 40 percent of your patrons not coming back 40 percent of your customers never coming back and that's happening in some parts of the church on this. Verse. Coming to you from Silver Spring Maryland welcome to the Bible based conversation. Temporary if. You're just in with him for. A welcome friends we are in this arc on talking about this cycle ship in the last couple of weeks and we're so glad you decide to join us and we're so happy to be in the studio and we are properly distanced but we are hanging out with other people and I am an introvert but I am I have become a converted extrovert we are our resident extrovert and our resident over extrovert so we have a good time on this. Talking about preservation preservation Sebastian Please pray for us I think I think we all need it so you need to be leading on to this but. Let's pray. Father in heaven what a privilege it is to be back here studying your word together Lord we have come through some very interesting times but we ask now that as we open your words you mean take us to heavenly places that you may guide us as we continue in our study on discipleship into know best how to preserve the harvest that gone has provided is our prayer in Jesus' name amen amen amen we want to acknowledge Cali who is also out there she is calling in and pre-shared Cali and her near sacrifice and her willingness to be involved and her deep insights and her participation has just been a while awesome and wonderful all addition to your inverse team so thanks for that I love you very much and I don't know it sounds more like a you know by the saying well yeah I love a lot and I think I'm missing. Out on the say something some other things about him anyway we're talking a 40 percent loss 40 percent loss and rather than going to a Bible verse Let's talk about a little bit apart this this is not an every part of the administrators This is not a partner and every part of Christianity this is not a this is just what's happening nowadays and Johnson let's start off on a discussion of just kind of start off the cuff what's happening well a lot of people the numbers are you know not lying a lot of people all leaving the church and the question is why especially we have a huge gap between the teenager age group and then 50 and above so in between there something is happening where a lot of people leave and that 40 percent depending on where you look and so I'm just thinking of my peers the people I grew up with the majority of them are not in the church anymore unfortunately and when I you know in conversations with them I've been trying to understand you know why and what's going on and I think of multiple reasons as with any issue but in this situation that I'm thinking of right now it was a lack of. Friendship there was no real friendships going on no connection with other members and also a lack of purpose. Not being able to to participate really or have another opportunity to contribute so those were some major factors as others where there was just kind of a they felt it was like a judge mental spirit that they felt in the church and didn't feel very welcome and so there was that you know I can do my own thing and they left and I preach it and I think this is good that we need we need we need a space to talk about these things but I want to be very careful because I think it also irks me that people often use this as a platform for a particularly agenda hey this is the reason why everyone is leaving so we only do the visit this is the answer and then they'll push this and then really everyone has their own version of what this is and I know I'm using my hands but they're using this and I think it's we need to talk about it and that's been you I think I would share some of the that that that that background I know in the young adult group that I was a part of I'm the only person that's still in the church there may be one or 2 that are you know flickering on and off and there's different reasons I think the part about perspective I come from is I never really knew the Bible I never knew about discipleship I didn't know how to do a devotional life I didn't know anything about the doctrines of the church I didn't know Jesus even though I was in the church for about 17 years so I mean any of those things are related and a little different I would you guys have asked I think one thing I can add to this is also you know a lot of times people join a community in leave a community because what we want them with is not what we want them to and it's like I can't go take a girl out and be like I'm taken to nice restaurants and I'm very like polite and gentle and then as soon as we're now in a relationship all of that goes out of the window no dates no. Open your door get your own door can you pay to Bill it's like wait this is really backwards to how you brought me in this relationship and I feel like a bait and switch right we're doing this above and beyond Evangelist the campaign with the lights and the love and we'll pick you up and now that you're a church member hey such an easy ride to church that's out there I weigh yourself yeah missiles Good luck hope you survive and to me that kills so many relationships and people's willingness to stay committed to the church Kelly your your spirits. Yeah I really relate to a lot of that and I really like what Sebastian especially brought up about this continuity of a relationship because you we put everything at the beginning but you know I felt even myself that after I became on fire for the Lord like Ok she's good we will not ignore her and her attention everybody else and that really just makes you feel like you're just a number and someone's just trying to get something out of you and so then your friends were given you bible studies like I thought we were friends but they're like well you know we done to you so we're good now and that kind of mentality that we bring into it is so destructive and it's it's also really hurtful because then you just feel used by people and by a system and I guess you know agreeing to everything else that at the end of the day you know as Christians we don't stay because of the people we stay because of Jesus and we need to keep that mentality but it's still really discouraging when people treat you as a number and not as a relationship or another human I mean in this there's different modes of a young adult ministry and then just going with your experience I mean I had the same experience there where as a young adult they wanted me to come to church they're such low expectations and I come up to church at like $1145.00 you're like you know. I'm totally late and I'm only here for lunch whereas you're such a great question I don't know who Jesus is and you know this is kind of dichotomy that's happening and then expectation is solo and then once I am in then there is no no effort to to train the spiritual leaders no challenge it's it's this it's it was a weird experience I think just in that we run into this other problem with young adults which is that we don't challenge them I remember doing ministry with university students in Boston right you talk Harvard and mit these top universities in the country and this young girl was a freshman at mit and the school already had her the summer before her semester even begin teaching a class on Calculus to incoming freshman so when you think about that you're thinking Ok. Come to the church they might let you do scripture reading go to mit Oh you can teach a whole class on calculus before even taking one class on campus because the school believes that much in you and I feel as if we kind of cultivated that opportunity with young adults they would say wow the church really believes in me and they're willing to give me those responsibilities and I think if we if we matched that more in challenge young people we would see a greater retention of them staying in and they would feel more committed to the movie now we can talk about young adults because we are young adults or we saw most things where young adults and we were talking about the young adult ministry John let's broaden out in terms of discipleship so connect where have we been in this grow agricultural cycle and then now and preserve and then where how does that connect with what we're talking about well when it comes to this opera when it comes to connecting with Jesus and helping others to connect with Jesus. We have learned that there are different steps you know we have to prepare the soil we have to to build relationships we have to plant. Some seeds the Word of God we have to study with them help expose them to truth and when it comes to preserve it is now that we have made you know people made a decision you want to make sure that it continues you know you you want you want the you want then to not also being gauged and continue that work of this opposite because Jesus told us to be disciples but also to disciple other people and so in that preserve this is where. Connecting with other you know having friendships comes in with with other members and friends but then also engaging in reaching out and having that attitude of I want to lead others into the same experience that I have had so there's a lot of intentionality needed in this in this part of the cycle that we have been talking about but where it where is the line there are some people are like well I'll do the bible study saying I'll do the prayer thing I'll do the church thing but when you say the word he then. Elizabeth or ministry or outreach like whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa that is for like graduate school church like I am still elementary school and I don't I don't want to do that or I I'm a natural introvert a person's I don't know I'm a or I'm socially awkward or so what do you. How do you bridge that best Masako you're pretty awkward. I think I think for many it's a matter of meeting people where they are and where they're comfortable a lot of times if you only give them one Modahl little in order to share you eventually them it's kind of like are you going to go door to door and pass out tracks like this no and then I would then you don't love Jesus you're not serious about souls give me a wide variety of opportunity you know maybe I go door to door in prayer or there's prayer on the road right hold a sign people pull over and set of you know a pit stop a prayer stop you know different people can also serve the poor I remember being a part of a homeless shelter and passing out clothing singing songs and having devotion with whoever wanted to stay on South Africa they provide a meal every week for the homeless anybody can come it's really nice tablecloths so I feel like those are the opportunities that by diversifying the ways by which we fish from then it will bring more people into years like my creativity we need more ideas and all of that but what there's actually it's I think is a step me tween So you have that person and they don't want to do to get to the next level and we do we do need creativity totally agree with you about how do we how does that happen what is the anatomy Jonathan there's a great need for mentorship having a connection somebody comes new into the into the church just not connecting that person with an experienced person who through friendship and spending time together and doing ministry to get and learning from each other I mean what Jesus did he said follow me this had been with them. You know and and they learn and they grow and through that mentorship experience people will be emboldened and empowered to you know learn to do some of these things that they. There's a connection going on they're not on their own just Ok enough to do this they have the support system of a mentor I think that one on one experience has been lacking and you talked about the top of the show about the relationships we just assume that people be part of the church and then we've given up on his want to only we need to create duty. For what helped me was someone who took time and energy for me who knew me and knew the we the weirdness and a hooker in this that I have and my unique contributions and unique ideas and from there to creativity was able to come out when I come back after the break we'll look at how do we mentor how do we become mentored and act enter into a conversation about practical mentorship. Has embraced been a blessing to you Do you have questions comments all feedback you'd like to leave us find us on social media by searching. On Facebook Twitter Instagram for you to while there join us like us comes up next I'll handle again is in 1st Bible Belt states now back to the discussion. A welcome back we're looking at this concept of mentoring in on one and one relationship and how many of you out there have been mentored by someone in your local church or have had a spiritual adviser spiritual mentor and I believe everyone here we've all had that kind of relationship with somebody we really encourage you to find an advisor find a mentor or mentor someone else so to Cali in Cali what has been what's your perspective when it comes to mentoring. Well I have benefited so much from mentorship even by actually are you guys in the room right now so I have you know conversations and asking different things but I think one of the biggest I guess details about mentorship that I didn't really understand for a long time is that mentors aren't like these spiritual perfect giant gurus that know everything and like a merge with blessings and they're trained like they just. Have I know you just and I know who you really are but the main thing is just you know a little bit more than that person and maybe not even about everything but just about something and true it might be like you know way more like just knows way more than me about certain things but it's not it doesn't have to be this large gap or Canyon and that's going to how I felt like if people ask me spiritual questions like why ask me like talks about no but I did actually know the answer to the question that is to feel qualified to answer but something that I've learned even through teaching you know I teach some software engineering classes right now and I don't know everything about software engineering but I know a little bit about the topic at hand and the same thing with spiritual things if you have some way to give someone else knowledge or wisdom that you have you can be a mentor you don't have to wait until you have the answer to every question or can understand every weird verse of Revelation as long as you know something about something spiritual then you can be a mentor and so that that's not me for a little bit but at the end of the day we don't have to know everything which you know something really cool aspects about mentoring is that you end up picking up some attributes of your mentor in other terms of character obviously knowledge but maybe even style and even ways of communicating values I mean so much of who you are as a person is transferred to another person and we receive those from from other people so let's go to to look 15 which I really want to emphasize is one aspect of Jesus. A value that he wanted passed on in his disciples go to Luke 15 and Luke 15 is a chapter that has these 3 very famous parables and Jonathan what's what's in these 3 parables Well you have the parable the lost sheep parable of the lost coin probably lost son and they represent different kind of loss and this for example of the parable lost sheep is an individual that was part of the flock but kind of wandered away over time or got distracted or whatever it is that got him away the last coin is in the house it was lost in a house that means to someone who is in the church but is lost in the church and then the last one is someone who will fully says I'm done with this and rejects you know God in the parable the father goes away but then returns which is in your beautiful sort of redemption and so this is Jesus is pointing out there's different ways of being lost and it's important to reach out we see the beautiful character of God in him reaching. What I also love is there is the lost motif in all 3 I also see there are celebrations in all 3 there is rejoicing all of Heaven reach always says when that which is or who that which was lost or who was just that which was that which was lost because it's it's a thing but it's actually a person and in the last thing the last person has now been redeemed and so there is that joy that which which I believe is so crucial in the current Christian discipleship in the Christian walk right is that we have these mountain top experiences with the Lord and those are would provide joy but do we have these moments where we are overjoyed that through my relationship with God and Him disciple a need that we have participated in bringing someone back to that old county what's been some of your experiences in the celebration in encountering loss in this and the world. Yeah I have had the privilege of giving the couple Bible studies to different people but even beyond that even before I talk about that I want to talk about even just my coming to know Jesus and that celebration I saw in other people and I saw that it wasn't the people there's a very few there's a few key people who had lots of conversations with me were praying with me answering all of my very detailed questions and I could see that they weren't just trying to dunk me as I was saying earlier but they were like Man I really want Cali to experience this piece and this joy and this wonderful connection with Christ and when I made that decision I mean like there are very there are some people my life who are crying like every time I talk about I like men and they were when I met you yeah. And so even experiencing that joy and someone else's eyes helps you see how much Jesus rejoices over our personal salvation is not just about racking up points or add a membership it's like and this human soul came to know Jesus and that is fantastic and so I've been privileged to experience that myself of giving Bible studies to people and seem people who are the beginning of my conversations with them they're like man you know I really think truth exists and going from that to now they give Bible studies and they run ministries and I'm like that's as wild as completely change that person and that gives me so much joy even when things happen in my life and I'm like you know I just things aren't going the right way or I'm discouraged Jesus reminds me of like and I'm I think you know my life is a waste but Jesus like look at what I used to do and even that can bring us joy and encouragement along our way brought some awesome that think you're sharing I mean this I mean I when you were talking reminds me of expenses that I have with my mentor and hopefully expense I can give to other people right I'm so Meshal answer this question how how do we how do we find a mentor and we just going to do are we room you be my mentor like because that also and I know people who have done it that way if that's not a great way. No I think with mentorship there's a couple ways that you can go about it sometimes you can start off as what we call like a tacit mentor where someone impacted you at a distance right you read an article a book that they wrote you heard a sermon or presentation they gave me like wow that was really moving like I really resonate with this person's experience and you start off at a distance and eventually may get an opportunity to talk with them one on one and a lot of times the the mentor and the mentee it's still a relationship and it has to be entered into voluntarily so to me it's both of you alone acknowledging in that moment like hey I think there's some chemistry here and and a mentor saying I really want to develop and cultivate your gives and on the other side the mentees like yeah I would love your help right in your investment in me to help me to grow I think another way to go about it is also to immerse yourself in communities in which you're going to find an encounter someone who is clearly going to be more knowledgeable or more experienced in that area than you and by stepping in to I say I really want to get deeper into the Bible so let me go to a Bible study and I may notice and just and he knows a lot about this theological question that I had in my mind again it creates an opportunity for me to be in that environment in to discover someone who may be a little bit more events like Calley said doesn't have to be astronomical you know ph d. to my nothing but it's more like wow he knows a little bit more let me glean listen and affirm and mentors love teachable people and the more teachable you are you're humble you ask questions you know what you don't know you will automatically attract mentors because that's where they want to invest. Is is there a difference between personal development mentorship and Christian mentorship spiritual mentorship some time there is definitely overlap but is there also a. Difference Yeah I think that that is actually pretty powerful and we see in x. in 215 the reason why Gene. He was telling these parables was because he was hanging out with the tax collectors not tax collectors who are you know considered kind of like the trash or so the trash society the traders right but they were also wealthy and they probably had opportunities to educate educate themselves be they had personal development opportunities a poor person would not have had and so they had all this but Jesus knew that they had a different need as well that's why he was hanging out with them he was spending time with them that's what he says here he was eating with them receiving them and the charities of course then like that so yes there is a difference there is a need for personal development you know professional development but when it comes to spiritual development as a mentor or mentor or relationship the mentor has the power order the privilege rather to help his mentee to. To gain and understand understanding of of eternal realities which goes way beyond professional development public speaking skills or whatever it is the kind of skill you want to have when it comes to spiritual development here it is now the mentors challenge and privilege to help a person to to develop into becoming more and more like Jesus and that's extremely humbling when if you have a mentor now you know you've got to pray because how do you do that how do you help this young person to get to this point so it is there's a huge difference in the head there's a lot of need of prayer as a mentor and realizing that this burden is something that Jesus has put on those who have had an experience with him as you said you don't have to have a Ph d. in b. or Cal is that you don't have to be like amazing and know everything you know if you have an experience of Jesus you can share it with someone else you can help someone who's younger in the journey to do that but humility lots of prayer and intervention intentionality is needed and you know I would also add to complement would Jonathan is saying is that Christian mentorship is. Also different because we're not just learning a skill set right I can learn a skill from you but I don't want to be like you and in Jesus's example he wasn't just presenting the message he was the message so it wasn't just I want to learn from Jesus I want to be like Jesus and to me that is the call of Christian mentorship I'm not just here to pass on skills in spiritual development in those spiritual disciplines I'm here to also leave an example that is worthy of imitation and I think that's the higher calling of Christian mentorship which is I can just be like on with the job to study the Bible but I have no discipline of my own devotional life you know I need to be able to see and to me that's why Christian mentorship has more power because for me to be next to you and see you studying the Bible is much more profound and has an impact on me than you giving me a book or a list of skills and you know methodology to apply you know after hearing the 3 of you you speak what's coming the a composite picture that's emerging in my mind is is Christian mentorship and preservation discipleship has 2 points right so the mentor really locks us in into the skills and sets and develops us as a person but from this point where we're actually points to Jesus and creates that line and it's and I think what the cool word is customize it's a customized relationship for me for towards Jesus right and there are some people who are all about mentoring and so they give us all the skills in the programs or whatnot but it's not for Jesus it's just for here and then we have all these Christian programs that are all about Jesus all these events but they're really not it's not really about me it's just for everyone together but you have this individual customization and you have Jesus as the end point and you draw that line and it and it's on one on one work and it's something that we really encourage all of you to be a part of or to endeavor in is this one on one this. Mentor work and that's been as. Bared out fruit for Born out fruit for for all of us here and we really encourage you to get into the Bible be part of this grow model Find a mentor knock on the door a contact Sebastian or Cali or Israel or Doniphan or seek to contact people that you know that are godly and they're not perfect as Calli said We hung out our issues but they would drive us to the foot of the cross for more information go to inverse Bible Dorji or you'll find Bible studies of our previous topics from different t.v. shows and also go to hope t.v. dot org And verse can see our archives you can binge watch for hours and hours all of us talking thanks so much for joining us we'll see you here next week on in verse with. Us. You've been listening to invest a Bible based conversation. As well that with Jonathan Wald Sebastian back. Just. In this is brought to you by the. Television that changes. But this morning Spike ever so there's an inverse. Or a. Bias on social media. In the 1st 5 until next time this isn't bias.


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