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Logo of InVerse, 4th Quarter 2021: Deuteronomy

02 Rebellion and Consequences

Israel Ramos Justin Kim Jonathan Walter Callie Williams


Does God have a nose?



  • October 4, 2021
    9:00 AM
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Close your eyes and think, what does god look like? Does he have a white beard? Does he sit on a throne? Or does he look like something else? We'll talk about the physical features of god on this episode of inverse. The coming to you from silverspring, maryland. Welcome to in a bible based conversation on like, sensible, contemporary issues and thought provoking perspective. Just in can with You guys my interest in kim and you're on in verse in a studio with me is israel and jonathan and kelly. And we're in the midst of studying the book of deuteronomy. When encourage you to go to hope t, v dot or g slash inverse, you look at last week's episode and see how we get into this wilderness experience. So hey guys, come back to you and we are in deuteronomy one of my, I don't, I would not say it's one of my top 10 favorite books of the 5. But after last episode, i mean, is we're getting there. I mean it's, it's every time we do study a book of the bible, it tends to lead to be made for my favorite. So we'll get into that. I wanted you to write me chapter 4 deuteronomy chapter 4. But before we the bible, when asked that, we pray jonathan, if you can help us. Sure of pray. Father, we're here again to open your word to grow from your word and lord, we just want to invite the holy spirit, teach us what we need to learn today, Not assess, but all those who are watching and studying with us and a prayer as we journey through this book of your army, they will grow closer to you and have a more committed and more fruitful relationship. We thank you so much, lord in jesus' name, amen. Name in man. Go to judy on the chapter for verse, minutes, a long chapter. $49.00 version, do we have enough time for the whole $49.00 vs. So let's start from verse 29 to 31. If you read those vs for us, all right, 1st 29. But from there you will seek the Lord your god, and you will find him if you seek him with all your heart and with all your soul, when you are in distress and all these things come upon you. In the latter days. When you turn to the Lord your god and obey his voice, the Lord, your god is a merciful god. He will not forsake you, nor destroy you, nor forget the covenant of your fathers, which he swore to them. Yeah, this is kind of the apex of that passage. We're in chapter 4. So right after chapter 4 is after 5, where the 10 commandments are given. We're gonna look at the next episode. What you like an exodus 20 and do drop me 5 other 2 times with the 10 commandments. I mentioned one emphasizes jesuses are god's creation. Jesus also created according to the new testament but also the to me 5 emphasizes he redemption secretion, redemption right before this giving of the 10 commandments. We have chapter 4 and God kind of gives us kind of preface or kind of his plea before his grand opening. What's going on here? israel? Yeah, as we've mentioned before, the book of deuteronomy, not only, not only speaks of the law, but it also speaks in the book of do not. I mean, not only talks about law, but it also talks about life. It talks about instruction. It's, it's, it's really more than that. It's a book of experience, a book of life stories that are retailing, the experience that god has had with his people, especially a child in chapter 4. He begins by talking about verse 7, you know, for what great nation is there that has god, you always so near to it versus what great nation is there. That has such statutes and righteous judgments as are in the law which are set before the day. When, when we're talking about the lot, it's more than just 10 commandments more than just regulations, but it's talking about how is it that a person can really experience happiness, right, perfect, and a great life. Now, what I, what I appreciate it about that set up that moses gives us in the, in the beginning of chapter 4, he's talking about the comparison between great nations and the nation of israel. And this appeals to human nature, right? Because what we want more in this light than anything else, we don't want to great god, we want to be great ourselves. And then he's, he's, it's kind of like he's bringing to my look. All of these nations, as great as they are as powerful as they are, as wealthy as they are. They're missing this one thing. And that is that they don't have god near to them the way you do. And so even though you might be a small nation, even though you might look like a feeble nation, even though you might be at the bottom of all the nations, you have this great privilege. Yeah. Of having the great god of the universe and. And so this is something that kind of that is portrayed and then he says, what makes the difference between whether or not you will appreciate god or you will a great god, or you will appreciate a great nation and then it becomes as kelly red, it's an issue of the hearts, right? If you want god near to you, if you want the great god, if you want to appreciate the greatness of god near you, then you will have me, you will when you seek for me with, with all your heart. I appreciate the introduction in any then he goes into verse 15 into this kind of section on be wearing idolatry, not to reproduce god or reproduce him in a physical feature which we shall go to the theme in the beginning, the opening of the show, those god have physical features, why does god not want to be reproduce? What so bad about I dollar tree from the spot there. Well, I $1.03 is the oldest humanity really. It is. Every time humans try to make something that you know, god clearly instructed not to do or to do, and they just do their own version of it. That is really idolatry. And so like you see it already right in the beginning with cane when he did the sacrifice. That was not he did a sacrifice to forgot ask for, but he did it according to his own way. And so he, he form to sacrifice in his own image sort of thing that I want to in my way of what god is saying. I have clear instructions, i've clear showed you the way to go and just follow my way. Now when it comes to his, you know, you're asking about physical features and those kind of things. We do know from genesis and we did studies numerous times and in birth that god created humanity in his own image. Now that of course can be interpreted in many ways, but it does, you know, throughout scripture as seems to be. It does allude to the fact that god does have physical features that he can be seen. I mean moses saw, you know, god is back face to face and in his back and, and, and so the seems to be a physical, visible presence of god that can be seen where that is always the way he looks, you know? Or if it's only when he enter after the humans, we don't have all the information on that. But it seems to be some kind of form that he have. And going to one of the questions that you asked about why a dollar tree in this case of creating these images is wrong, is because we cannot create an image the accurately represents god. We can't conceptualize. And even if we're even talk about physical forms, just like you can't confine him, even so like, you know, he'll come and dwell in the temple, but you can't, can find that even to a temple. And so to say this is what god looks like, or I need to go to this house and then see god, you're bringing down his physical presence. You're confining him to a place or can buy him to an appearance or can find it to an experience that you control. And it even just takes away who god is. And so you're just like, god, god is all these things and God is so transcendent. But then you're like, oh no, no, actually he's just like in my pocket or like he's in my living room. Yeah. No, I think the last time I really appreciate in our last episode, we looked at how god is a relational god. And as he says, that sounds filter, i mean it's heat or time element or there needs to be investment and it's just it's emotions involved. It's quite complex and in that complexity for us to read, use that complexity to mirror, you know, I was martin factors or whatnot, and then put in your pocket. Yeah. Right. Then you're just, you've just kind of reduced to this complexity to something that you can ultimately control and the dangerous even impose yourself upon it. And there's different ways that we do that. And there's piggybacking on what you just said. There's 2 things that strike me in terms of the problem with that knowledge. And one of them is that salvage doesn't work right? The whole story of creation, redemption is the purpose. God needs to make us into his image to restore us the image of our maker and so and humanities attract is the opposite, right? Trying to create all this divinity into our, in the arm and, and, and so in a warm idolatry is making got into the image of man, right? And that just won't work salvation because we take god, we make them in our image and then we say you're going to save us. So that doesn't work in terms of salvation. The other reason is because it doesn't work relational either, right? When we talk about god being a jealous god, I often had problems with that. Like 24 for the Lord. Your god is a consuming for a jealous god starting to get in there. And so I had this problem with going to God, why are you so jealous? Why are you insecure? You know, until until I got married, right? And, and then once you're married and you love someone, everything like all of a sudden, jealousy is important, right? And it's not that I don't trust my wife, it's just, I don't trust everyone around my wife. And so you know, you get to a point where, where I can never imagine in my life, I can never imagine myself being comfortable with someone kissing my wife. The way I kiss my wife, right, what someone holding my wife, the way I hold my wife relationally it doesn't work, doesn't mean that no one can hold or no one can kiss or whatever. It doesn't mean that. But you can't do that. The way I do it right, that is reserved specifically for me. Why? Because I'm a jealous husband. And so jealousy works within the context of relationships, essential for the, for the stability relationships. And so I, poetry, is it, is it breaks down the relationship that exists between us and God, because it's a form of, it's a form of adultery. And you know, it's not just about like, oh, you know, if we make an idol and we worship dad and I really mean god, but I need something physical. It's not just that god is upset about that alone. It's also that he is concerned for us because he knows that we are missing out on the, you know, you mentioned relationship and salvation. He were missing out on that healing process that he's offering in that relationship. And he's trying to restore us the image of god. He's trying to restore us from this brokenness that we are in a broken mess that we are into, you know, into the complete healing. That's a very race oriented rather than just being petty. You meet or not? You drew another picture of me right now. He's like, you're missing out because you're trying to self medicate by making your own little thing instead of taking the medication that I'm offering, which is the only one that can help you. Yeah. I think it's, I think you just said it actually, but I love to harp on the non arbitrariness of god, especially in the old testament because in the old testament that's when we often say he's arbitrary or just being petty. But it's exactly right. But I dollars for the reason god doesn't like idolatry is not because he's like, I don't like, I don't like you're in that don't like it is a so, you know, you're missing the point. We can actually have a relationship. If you do that and it's, it's not, it's not concern for himself because god knows who he is. God isn't like, oh, you do me a bad picture. I don't like it like that does not look like you just like, oh, you're going to fundamentally misunderstand who I am actually, who you are if you do that and so I would rather not do that. Yeah, I want to try to bring in this is element of what you read before. Earlier in verse 29. It says here from there you seek the Lord your god, and find him if you seeking with all your heart and with all your soul. And it's a dollar tree is a great evil, it's great temptation, not for the pettiness that humanity is just chilling a little stature. But it, it prevents us from seeking god with all of our heart f one. 0 my, my gods right there. And I've only used one percent of my whatever just just and it reduces that relationship, reduces that koreans altogether. When we come back up to the break, we will look at this. How does heart religion, real spirituality and idolatry? How are they connected? Why? What's so wrong with them, and how do we commit adultery on a daily basis? This is in verse. I'm justin. Stay with us. I have been a blessing to you. Do you have questions, comments, or feedback? You'd like to lever find us on social media by searching in booth bible on Facebook, twitter, instagram, or youtube. While you join us, like us caught us thumbs up a handle again, is inverse bible know faces. Now back to the discussion, ah, welcome back. We're here in the studio, we're looking at the topic of idolatry in the book of deuteronomy and God, actually repeaters over and over and over again. And we stablish that idolatry is not merely decrease of image that god is peddling, angry with when there's a deeper heart religion, heart problem going on here. You're on me chapter 4 and I want to ask you guys, let's, let's look at the vs overs 29. 30 and 31 in which kelly read and connect those 2 things. Real heart, religion, real sincere covenant experience that we've talked about. Couple season go. You can go to hope t v dot org slash inverse book and that season. But how is how, what's the connect between that tree, israel and John, you will seek the Lord, your god, and you will find him if you seek for him with all your heart and with all your soul. We have the guide in as to how we are able to communicate and to find god. Any other guide outside of that will be limited guide and my end up leading us to the wrong conclusion or to the wrong destination. Often with, you know, when it comes to relating in our, in our context today, one of the biggest problems that we have is texting. Right? I mean, we're, we're in a room the same room together and instead of having a conversation together, we're texting. There are so many problems with texting. Right. Just this past week. I was uncle is fully complaining. Yeah. I had to text them one. Yeah. And about this very important situation that we were dealing with. Yeah. And she's married to another man. Right? Yeah. And it's like 12 o'clock at night, but I just got done with work and it's an emergency. So I text, i'm like, are you awake? She says yes. And then my next 6 is, can I call you? Yes, and I'm and then and then so I call her up the 1st thing. The 1st thing is, the 1st thing I have to say is like, hey, can you make sure you tell your husband what this is about? The content. Yeah, yeah, it doesn't depend relations are you I Yeah. Are you awake? Can I call you right? Yes. And so that's the problem with idolatry, is that it does not lead down to a real conversation even though those words are there. Are you awake? Can I call you, it's not a clear depiction of the relationship, or the purpose of our conversation, and in a similar way. Idolatry is that way. Ok, we're, we're having a conversation which in the text alone can be very mis, misleading. Yeah. In terms of what we're actually trying to communicate or accomplish, okay. And so I dollar tree, even though it's there, even though what we're reading is real, even though that actually did happen, it leads us away from the real thing essence of the real thing. And so god says, the way in which you find me is not through text. The way in which you find me is not even through a phone conversation. The way in which you find me is through an intimate connection. That's the only way you're going to find me, which requires be investment of your whole heart, a total commitment to the relationship. So it's has all the forms and structures and elements, but it's missing that crucial piece of the heart of communication, of heart, heart communication and the heart. You know why the hard bible pocket, you know, talks about it all the time, the whole heart hopeful everything. The heart is, you know, from a biblical perspective, the core of your humanity. This is where you make your decisions, your emotions and all that is there. And this is where, you know, you, you, you make your covenant with god or your problem with something else. Whatever it is, got a thing. The central who you are, I need that to be connected to me. Why? Because when thin entered it, you know, our lives. Yeah. It destroyed our heart. It is going our ability to make the right decisions in destroyed our ability to define solutions. And so because the heart is fully sick and deceitful, if the bob with that give your heart to me and then I will fix it. But a dollar tree is when we take the think that only god can provide and we try to seek them somewhere else. We say, you know, I have this issue of, you know, I don't know know, self discipline or, you know, I lie or whatever it is. And, and I'm going to try to follow some program, some routine that's going to fix it. And you know, that's so many services and product other than, you know, promise you these things. But everything but the heart. Exactly. And so it's, it's the outward forms, but it does not transform that the core of where it all stems from, which is the sinful broken us enough. There are you, st. Johnson, to in this, in his commercialize a world that we live in every commercial, every product, every, every advertisement that's on social media and destroy my social meet experience. And me from this upset that they're tracking me with all my, all these things, are they all forms of I dollar tree in our modern age? It can be, if we go to those things to these products, to try to make up or try to do the things to our heart that only god can do. God has put it, turn it into our hearts. And he is there cravings, that a hearts have a broken hearts have for healing, for restoration, for love, for, for transformation, industries around the world. They know these things about the needs and they capitalize on how to tap into the profit. Exactly. And you know, that might even be solutions that are temporary. Yes, but long term solutions will not happen until god has a heart because he's the only one that can actually heal. And I think in moderation, we get to we talk about we can talk by dollar tree and you know, immediately cause my think, my daughter think statue, right. And like I so primitive that is so pre modern world, in the post modern age and do we still have idols today you're saying Yes. What it, let's make a little more real. What are our tangible idols that, that our generation is currently being subsumed? And kelly, i think, kind of broadening the definition beyond statues. No offense, i feel you. This is just placing a higher affection on something else. So you can, the crazy thing is that you can't be starting with idolatry and still love god. You just love something more and you prioritize something more or you, you know, seek their help more. There have been times where and you can also start with adults with, with objectively good thing, like a relationship, romantic or otherwise, or just certain people or certain experiences where you're stressed or you're just not doing well. You like, how do I feel better? I go there and these that and that, that is idolatry because you're experiencing something that only god can, can fix all the god can heal. And instead you go to something else which ultimately doesn't work, but that evens that experience with that I thought I heard somewhere where she was talking about the dollar tree of the bible. You know, like why are you telling you the how are you going to be that the bible is like the holy holy holy bible. And he's entitled a B, B bala, tree. Yeah. People all the tree, the knowledge and just taking the bible, mixing it with where you know, we do. I do have tendencies for that that know that one day that I'll just read a bible verse, right. And without a relationship with god, without even subscribing, i don't know or any my heart i my bible to day. So that this magical incantation will now protect me from all bad things. And me just carry my bible and put in my bag. I won't read it, I don't see this as a portal to an relation with god. Just having the bible in the or under my arm. Bless me right. That this can be an object. It falls in that category. Yeah, a good thing. I think another way to that, I see a lot more with my generation is seeing the buy was a self help book of like this is super profound, really great council. Jesus, you really lived a life. I'm going to go apply that. I'm going to apply that. Yes, my life is not about a relationships about and it almost sounds good, right? Because like I'm just seen jesus my example. And I'm just going to fall after him like, oh, great old covenant. It right like this sounds good. I'll do it. Yeah. Gotta do that to you know, another way to we can create, even with god, we can say I'm going to create god in my own image and not just making a statue, but I'm going to pick and choose what I like about god, or what I want him to be like, yeah, and it's driven from my sinful heart. I'm like, you know, I want got to be this. Why don't? Yes. A lot of questions. They throw at the old testament look, I don't like the old testament. Yes. You know, they might not even have read it, but someone said it's bad. So well, I'm just the new testament fishing and, and so they're really only seeing half of god. You know, I mean to see I know jesus and all it's beautiful right in jesus building on all the old testament stuff as well as we have seen covenant study. So making gotten our own image can even happen with christianity if there are believe in the bible. But I think I'm gonna select this. I don't like that. I'm going to what I felt in my worship experience over. I'm just going to do it this way. And not let the word of god and our listener, we've got to inform it one way of going away from all trees to say I'm going to not be afraid of the things that I don't like. You know, I'm saying okay, I'm gonna let all these things create a beautiful picture. The complete picture of who god really johnson. I mean, I'm just thinking while you were talking to me, do you have people who mister experiences? Yeah. There were people who deny the justice, the judgment, the law, and they want the Grace base, god mercy, and compassion. And they have also the flip side. Like, hey, I don't want that much. I don't want the love guy. That's all easy stuff. I was like this, I want to be in and then they create god in their own image according to their own personality, their own temperament. And it's an easy god to worship in them. Callian and israel. I was want to say a quick side comment on something said and that is just the fact that verse 29 is where you are on me. And it's in the old testament because like drop inside, i think a lot of times we're scared of the old testament because we haven't read it. Yes. And the best way to overcome that is just to read it and then it sounds so mundane for like your or or read it not fall asleep through it or not read and check off like I did, I just don't want other people be like, oh yeah, you don't need to read that or like that book. There's no gospel movie. Like, yes there is. Yes. Yeah, there's just read it. Well, no, daniel, well no to Well appreciate it. When you are, as we're talking about idolatry, one of the things you know, the question is, what are the things that are idolatrous in our generation? I'm thinking of myself, what is there that is not, you know, and I think it boils down to perspective. We often have the perspective in the question that we have to ask ourselves is have we found god or we finding god, you know, and a lot of times we approach our relationship with god as though it's a past tense, we've already found him. Oh yeah, I know god, I found him already. My God, you know he's, he's the, he's the manly man. He's got a gun, he will kill people, he will defend he's the great defender or no, no, that's not my gum. I got his social justice, jesus, you know, and we start, we start taking jesus aspects as you already eloquently says, and we make them in our own image and that, that all of these things, the fact that we have found god, will inevitably create idols. Right? That is the sure path to idolatry, because god says, know if you're, if you're, if you have already found me of you already finished me. If I'm a finished product in your mind, you've already made me into an image. You've already made me into an idol. Whereas, what is necessary is the opposite and that we will continually find god because we are finite people. He's an infinite god throughout the rest of our lives, we will be finding him more and more. And that's the only way for us, not only to prevent idolatry, but to also have god's purpose established in our life. Now, I like what you mentioned earlier, said in the side common that you know, what has our affections. And I think for all of us here and the viewers as well, you know, I think everyone, you, you know, we, we believe in god and we want to follow him a great way to see where do we stand in this discussion about all a tree is what does have have our greatest affections? You know, we can pray about him for god's show me. Are you really the most important thing in my life? Do you have my entire heart, my entire soul? And God will gladly help us with that. He's not against us. And so I think it's important that we ask ourselves is on a continual basis because we easily slip into this in even having got as part of our life, but then something else more important. So like, does god have a whole heart? I think that the question I want to take away the discussion, my reaction is there is idols everywhere. How do I get them out there is I'm freaking out and it's not our generation and has more idol than any other generation in an earth history. Like, what do we do? Your reaction was like, man, I'm going to get rid of all these idols myself and I would say you can't, you cannot go crushing these idols all around you. It is the Grace of god, the new covenant god who comes and gives us the strength, gives us new eyes to see as jonathan said, and to allow us to get rid of these idols in our life. This is one of the 10 commandments that our promises that god has given. That's our prayer. Hopefully that's yours. Go to inverse bible dot orgy and download the bible study guide for this arc on the topic of deuteronomy. We'll see you next week here on in verse, ah, with ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, You've been listening to invoice a bible based conversation tele rodeo ro. Jonathan was the fashion braxton dachelle. Justin can the inverse is brought to you by the whole chem television that change his life more by episode in hope to Find us on social media. Inverts bible until next time, this is invoice.


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