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Incubating Ministries for Strength and Stability

Steve Dickman
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Steve Dickman

President of Harbert Hills Academy




  • August 4, 2011
    10:45 AM
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I know if you have a question when I was I'll repeat your question so they goes on this because what happened is these are being recorded to be put up on the website and you can go back in and look at them later you can send something else to look at it I need to soak best the reason were doing all these microphones is that we get the proper recording some of the windowing ministry empowered by the Holy Spirit working together and when that happens now we will be able to reach the world we will be able to do God 's business here in such a way that his work is finished and we can go home to that heavenly kingdom I then asked why we do ministry were not doing ministry just a new ministry ministry in order that they may be souls in the kingdom and we may complete the work that God is given us to do here on planet Earth that's a big assignment because the world is a big place there's something else here that you want to think about when it comes the ministry if God has called you to some form of ministry it may not agree with everybody else's idea of ministry okay you may be called to do something that no one else has been called to the icon for the lady this morning I'm just seeing if she's here she came notion of future delete it she came by the bloodthirsty call me she had a ministry is and that she was trying to get started with it she wanted some ideas about what the business we start talking a little bit and when I found I would administer lesson may God bless you in your ministry because this is so needed God is calling her to minister to people who are needing to come out of the homosexual lifestyle she has a personal experience with this she was in the lifestyle for twenty years and she has come out of that God has delivered her from that and now she is beginning a ministry to help other people who are struggling with that adulation nice out last comment in a weird night why should we talk there were some then well guess what this is an issue even within the Seventh-day Adventist church and God is calling her through her experience now to be used in helping someone else is not a blessing isn't it in the and and and I just wanted to encourage her to keep doing what she's doing and to follow God 's leading she says I'm a little bit scared I said you need at least inform your 501(c)(3) essences nonskid do that because the government has control addresses okay was talk about questions then if you don't form 501(c)(3) and you don't get yourself organized white how you do business you want me to write to check personally for your ministry and you just open your personal bank account are you accountable in such a way that I could agree to do that well maybe not fully I mean that really would be accountability well so it do you think God is leading you start this ministry just so that you can do it while you're alive or maybe he has a vision that they should be a ministry that you carry on after your gone and how you going to do that if you have no organized way to do this if you're not kind of having gone through the process that you need to go through so she's thinking a simple way to get to the point where you need a facility to do business you need something to do business even if in a personal name or you have an organizational name to carry business and to do business like any and so there's a whole much of a practical things will talk about today and so we need to move forward we will demo talk about but we have this objective that we need to reach the world we need to reach out to the world with the good news of Jesus what here's a little cycle that you might think about first of all God may give you an idea a sick husband well you might be praying and God would suddenly give you that idea or the Hobart anyways we'll talk more about that but after your idea you have to do something to carry for the idea right and you said okay tell me to go to Walmart and buy fifty dollars of groceries delivered that family while there was an action involved wasn't there and it took some planning ahead to get up out of your seat and you have to take your car and drive to Walmart to buy fifty dollars of groceries and deliver the house was a little planning and organizing involved well what you doing that you might see in a family that has some needs he's a whiny number fifty dollars of groceries CBA to grow now some bills found I could get that is and here's another family with some groceries and so you begin to function and to operate and grow and then there comes a point in which the ministry begins to take on a whole different idea thinking are not just doing this by myself I need help and so the minister begins to take on this idea that we must mature the ministry we can't believe it where this meet good you just say okay God every day when I get up if you want me to buy groceries to somebody I will and you just do that but it seems like God grows specs it's a something small that he begins to add to it and had to it and tweeted this week and pretty soon something is growing about how the world because God was helping you guiding you along the way and then fifthly associate and collaborator is an important part of ministry did you know that coming to ASI is a part of keeping your ministry strong if you come to a SI and you rub shoulders with other people who are doing ministry you'll go home with new ideas you will go home with a blank slate I guarantee you come ASI you walk around you talk to other people are doing something similar and you get you begin your mind is how do you see how you are doing that did you see with the denominator is money what do I think thank you for that idea in the home he implemented a stealing Sunday's idea you might even talk to me might help you in another idea in your ministry in fact that collaboration would mean when I see something that somebody else is doing and I decide maybe God is leading me to do that and I would talk to them as a well once you just come over and do it at my place as well and you do it over there do it over here for me because I don't have any expertise to do and so we began to think broader now as we collaborate together and as we utilize our God-given talents and skills and we began to look for ways that we can collaborate together so this is kind of ministry development cycle that roadmap that I put together this idea there's a need to plan and organize it in the operating growth is a need to mature the organization and is in need of follow through with association with other organizations and collaboration with other people who are in ministry okay so let's take a look at first of all just talk for a few minutes here about this idea stage and I really want to emphasize throughout this entire presentation that I believe that God is your primary partner in ministry you can have human counsel and human counsel is wonderful but God is your primary partner in ministry and prayer at every stage of the game in every way through your entire ministry experience and hopefully when we take that approach we won't make as many mistakes we are human beings we will make mistakes in ministry I can look back on my experience in ministry and I've made a lot of mistakes over the years I freely admit that but somehow God is still blessed and were still involved in ministry he still uses those things he teaches me every day and I always say learn how to learn quick that wasn't a good experience for me not to forget that lesson and not to do that again because I didn't like the results of doing so as we are involved in ministry we need to make sure that we really have prayer first on our list and Tom I I told Mike and I understand the front row guys take their name in vain during the session now Mike and Diana have a ministry in Nicaragua where if you're going to go to where they minister you better get your boots on because it's a long ways as talking to someone this morning and Brian Traxler and he's been on a mission trip down there some kids us to be great experience form account in two days of travel to get there he said today's lesson take today's ice and Weller Circle copycatting factors along the way anyway Mike and Diane do ministry in the jungle of Nicaragua the Miskito Indian people they called me up number of years ago on a set Lord has instructed us to start a radio station in Nicaragua in the jungle I went all that's very interesting and I listen and I said let me know if I can ever help you now that was a good and bad statement altogether the same statement and I hung up the phone and I said to myself you don't do radio in the jungle first of all there has to be a place yet have electricity at a lot of things and then you had better have a radio experience and that is in selling equation today there is a radio station in the jungles of Nicaragua broadcasting to the Miskito Indian people it's the only radio station the world of broadcast and Miskito Indian language now why did that happen first of all they didn't listen to me because I probably would've given that counsel Mike are you sure you want to do this I didn't say that fortunately at the time so I don't have to say you know I I said that but I was thinking okay but no radio experience knowability I said this this doesn't sound like I called them in a specific way to do this and so as they began to pray and God revealed to them a burden to minister to these people the villagers are so far out that if you go to one of these villages it takes you one full day on the river in a canoe to get from the jungle village that they are in to the next jungle village up the river to where the people knew the gospel so manuscript practical thing to do but just very complex in an environment and so you know it in as they began to pray and God opened the way step by step right not all at once but step-by-step it began to happen up at this it was scared with happen all the wants of God takes you one step at a time associate and counsel together get counsel but make sure you always take that counsel back to prayer Lord I believe this is what you're leading me to do and I talked to Steve Dickman he said don't do what I did do it anyway okay that's exactly what you should do it anyway don't listen to my counsel of God telling you to do something that's what you need to do because I'm just a human being and you need to take God 's counsel first on right so but pray associate counsel together and ASI you get lots of ideas here you're already here so I know that you're experiencing that as you walk around the booths and other things well you better do some planning and organizing or even be in trouble and talk as I have studied this and learned about it some of the things that they and God doesn't reveal everything it wants and so you notice that we put some arrows here what is the vision that God is leading you to do what is it that you feel impressed that God is leading you to do well do you know that were a lot more likely to accomplish something we set out to do if we write now I'm if you just simply think I see the paper and you say I'm in good SI next year when it's in Dallas you're more likely to go than you are if you don't write it down and decide you could do that okay and so if you have certain things you want to accomplish it's good writing down state division and then you can begin to refine the vision as you talk with people even begin to refine the vision and the certain things here at this again at this actions that you would do what you're stating and refining your vision again you're praying your sharing the vision and you're getting feedback S kind of a cycle I'm praying in the more similar to Gettysburg to do this and I'm not sure what I should do but I'm praying to you today to show me the way and then you go out that day and you find your friend and you say listen I was praying this morning and got impressed me about doing this when you think about this and she began to get that feedback from other individuals wow that's a neat idea is if someone can help you and some other people began to give you counsel and you share the vision you share what God has designed needed to impressing it to do now in the case of the radio station Nicaragua what happened is that Diana shared the vision one day and as they were praying and in and might say no and Diana saying yes to them were not in full agreement about what should happen okay and Mike says why take ten thousand dollars the Lord sends ten thousand dollars and I guess we to do that well she shared that vision wonders in the call that he didn't even know she wouldn't office and hand her a check she mounted car and opened it up and check for ten thousand dollars for radio station and run Pentagon confirmed the vision and what was how did it happen it happened because the vision was shared and got impressed somebody else that that was a good vision and he impressed that as for the exact amount that was needed to inspire might say okay God knows as he knows what we need he knows we need to be inspired to carry forward in this vision is gas now could not have some expert and radio to go down Nicaraguan do this mission probably not because it's a stupid you know probably not they would've said that won't work they tapped on my children Diana showed as they didn't know enough to know when work and so now it's done all right such as an example of how God works as you share your vision with people other people get excited distance overhears some dear friends of mine Goddess inspired their work in Cuba and they had this vision that he shared with me about a year ago or so of doing some medical missionary work down there and getting a little lifestyle center established on Inktomi May two million dollars for this that I don't understand that she said that time but what is she doing she is beginning to share the vision of what was the God was laying on their hearts to do Yardley doesn't fulfill that vision I believe that in Cuba there's got to be a lifestyle training center and there could be used by God to help accomplish that vision because God is late and on their heart okay so if God is laying something in your heart share with people don't be afraid to share your vision with people they might say you're stupid or that you know that doesn't make any sense you never do that but if you pray that God is oppressing you and keep sharing that vision because you don't know for sure what God has in mind and we're not for God 's plan to delay consequent decide where to cooperate with him in his plans right we do try to help his his plans move forward well about planning and organizing plan the organization and an end this is something that could be as simple as okay this is very simple at this point back to the no buy some groceries for a family idea as a very simple form of ministry you you know your setting aside easy wireless set aside fifty dollars my paycheck every month until my groceries or people get away with God is impressed me to do when you restart the plan would you shop for an simple things like that so can be a very simple plan every first Tuesday of the month when I get off work and then go to Walmart and buy fifty dollars of groceries and undivided in butter jelly and in and in these things and take it out given way of case it can be very simple or it might be a longer-term thinking as shed probably includes long-term thinking we are thinking about thirty five years from now where do you envision God leaving your ministry to be so if were not thinking to the future it's hard for us to get there you understand that now number of years ago Harvard is counting the institution I managed we got involved a supplanting and at that point in time we had eighteen students in Count those is not too big of a number we send out is a planning we said you know we believe that we should have more than eighteen students and that we should grow was when we went to regrow to well probably about fifty students is where we could be nicely accommodating students and so our five-year plan was to have fifty students enrolled in Harvard is gathered was been three years since that plan was put in operation two and half years whatever it is to an half years and this year will have fifty five students probably fifty or fifty five students enrolled at Harvill 's Academy now they didn't happen by accident it happened because we put a plan that we said in order to make this happen we need to do the following things and we really prayed and sought God 's counsel in directing our efforts in the way we thought he was leading us and God has blessed that so don't be afraid to plan some people say I'm just a get up in the morning because that's what Jesus did he just prayed and whatever .com to do that's what he did there's some truth in that and you should always pray every morning and you should do whatever .edu to do that day but study the Bible and you'll find that God has plans for your life and it's not an accident that you came to a assigned two thousand eleven since I have a plan for you Jeremiah twenty nine eleven I have plans for you plans to prosper you and give you a future John chapter fifteen I think verse sixteen I have chosen you will why not choose you Mrs. and ordained you that you should know what were my daughter now will God has a plan the point is not has a plan for your life and if he has a plan for your life then I think it's appropriate that as we do ministry we have plans as well studied out it's in the Scriptures you can find it there how God has plans on glad God 's plan because it says that she says don't be afraid fear not there don't award on the leave you but I'm coming back is that a plan that God has each planning comeback right and happen by accident it's a plan of God to return and finish the sent problem on this planet in in the universe and will not be living in a perfect environment and I'm glad it's in God 's plans and that is not a hidden plan to publish my day put it together in a book and he laid off everybody can read it we know what God 's plans are okay so don't be afraid to publish your plan don't be afraid to make a plan don't be afraid afraid to publish your plan as long as you prayed about it and it counseled with others in and on your done your work don't be afraid of publisher plan other people need to know about your plan alchemy help if they don't know what your plan is how can they really be involved in voter planets that don't be afraid the plan organize and think strategically about what God is leading you to do okay pray times to hear the planning stage for sure another thing is your beginning ministry and Lohan will take a simple example again of the groceries and when to say what about it here how about you might need some people to help you okay so at the planning stage and the stage at which you look into the future democracy people help you you usually get a list of people using why I think so-and-so can help you do this and you make a list of five people you think of help you with this effort that you're working on and you began to talk to those people filter and refine the list to talk number one unless he's not sorry not interested number two of us all young love that idea let me know to begin a filter and refine your list individuals who are willing to help you and you educate them you changed them because he will always know how to help volunteers may shortly I don't know what to do you sure what to do you let them help you but you show them and teach them what they did and a heroine here has fifty eleven years of experience in ministry and he seen more boards operate and probably I even know exist in the world and he's seen them all the good the bad by Harold and sometimes you have you have people that are sitting on a board and they really don't know how to how to operate in a board environment and are causing problems on the board because they don't know what that is was not necessarily a bad person but they don't know what ability needs an education your job is to educate your board members and will get to that so as you think about this as as God is giving you a bird to do ministry you also have some other burden to give you along the way in one of those is you have to educate people about help you so board members have to be educated to they don't all know everything you have to be educators how to help you best okay and then uses these individuals use people in your ministry used people in your idea stage newspaper in your planning stage used a laser beginning to develop and move the this project forward because guess what if people are involved they will help you if people are not involved they will watch you do the work and they'll be happy to smile still look at all the wonderful work is being done right over here in this smiling watch the work being done and when you go talk to somebody out there sharing this concept they said it talked a number of individuals who administer initiative what would you rather do would you rather than of me give you a ten thousand dollars for ministry in your setting or would you rather that I bring a group of people to your ministry and help you do ministry and is on the foreign travel and organizations that are overseas and the person said I would much rather have what the people in the money yes they desperately need the money but more than that they saw that if people would come and see what they were doing then there would be more people that knew about what they were doing in the message was spread and they would have other resources coming into the system that they wouldn't have otherwise so that's an important concept in getting people involved in what you doing and allowing them to have a part of that so you want to educate these individuals and use these individuals get them involved what you're going to make sure that they are well taken care of take care of the people are helping you out just you don't don't don't don't abuse them and sometimes when ministry probably have a tendency not to fully bank and take care of the people that are helping us make sure you put away in place to thank the people are helping them take good care of them so where we had in the stage of development at this point we're planning and organizing and the praying developing list individuals filtering refining that list educating them and using them as you get started now in the stage where you kind of plan you get this idea you plan it needs the kind of things rolling little better in math time operate and grow the organization as a process here and as you beginning to do ministry and and guess what at this stage you do not yet qualify for ASI membership so were counted in the pre- stage of ASI membership because of an organization has to be in existence for one year and have at least two people in the ministry yourself to someone else the port qualifies for ASI membership as to what we want to do is help you get to that stage so that you can qualify for ASI membership okay so now your operating organization your growing organization what does it look like to operate and grow an organization view definitely keeping prayer in the list you might need to find a physical sponsor not physical sponsor is someone like OCI or possibly a local charge or someone who can assist you in such a way for instance that you might need some money to do ministry I was involved in another organization down in no in Nicaragua called Azariah Edmonds ministries and for a number of years their organization was hosted by a local Seventh-day Adventist church said you wanted to contribute to that ministry you sent funds to the buyer seven Venice church it was I don't remember the name of that is any distant funds there and noted on man those were to help with that ministry in Nicaragua and they would help that organization unit do that okay so you might have fiscal sponsor you must how your you're planning your implementing your evaluating your adjusting your planning and implementation of a cycle so you're in you're in the growth stage you're your planning something you're planning a trip you're implementing a project and then you come back home and evaluate how that went and you plan the next adventure I mean project and you are you planning implement that you come home and you let me say what also well when I do wrong or music that went great when we derive as they began to work through that process of evaluating adjusting planning implementing and an economist likely to carry on and at this stage you may have a group of the people we talk about during my call them advisors does it can have a board with the efficiently to my writer lament myself I will wonder you have a board anyway yeah okay what house does speak to those things that humans would just get that information we get down here just a little bit so as we mature the organization we're still praying were still sticking for counsel and God has led to the point where your physical sponsor whether the LCI or a local church and yourself have agreed I think it's time for us to go to the next step it seems like things have grown to the point where we need our own way to identify ourselves and do business we need our own recognition in the laws of the land we need to hold property we need to exercise authority is a corporation we need to do that business of this corporation in a more official formal way and so you begin sick I think we need to form and we call it a 501(c)(3) which is a nonprofit corporation recognized in United States of America as an official way to do business for a ministry nonprofit organization charter bylaws this is where Harold is thought Harold has more information in his brain and business books he could write books about this he seen so much of but there's some basics here and here would you speak to these ideas that should be done at this point to make sure we don't make mistakes and I'm going to let you use this microphone right here on few will dispute to this so that we're a 501(c)(3) organization is an abbreviation for IRS regulations violence he 's reading it recognizes certain qualified corporations as being in taxes instead that's really important is it that way you have a minister his ascribing your drawing on no time to begin operating under orders or final of the taxes is as is your business your is your operation and is the world recognizes people are our view law and yet is for your ministry it is going on I will so they don't want to enhance your say they don't want to enhance your say by giving to you donations that ultimately could be taken out of the ministry and put in your pocket or go to your heirs there's lots of examples there's lots of examples where that sort of thing has happened and so it it's really important for you to get a facial 501(c)(3) status now the treasury department is very interested in who they give that qualification that status to because there's a certain recognition if you have that status that you are somehow reached a plateau of accountability and that your reliable and that you have certain obligations there's another reason that they typically people and organizations that earn money earn are obligated to file a tax return and pay income taxes on their property if you have a 501(c)(3) organization you jump that who and people can contribute to your ministry and get a tax deductible receipt for it and in effect the government is partially supporting your operation because the taxes that would have gone through it now become the benefit of the donor so the governments interested in adding the event and the process of qualification for 501(c)(3) is not an easy thing they asked some very searching questions and I know that some people are able to do that on their own we typically suggest that they hire a good CPA or a lawyer who is familiar with that kind of thing they just cut down an awful lot agrees coming with that privilege of being a 501(c) three tax-exempt organization is an obligation to account for nearly and what they call nine ninety form that reports to IRS what has been the nature of your activity over the last year who will be your donors over five thousand dollars and what kind of things did you do last year how did you spend your money and is there any kind of self-dealing there are other are there people on your boards that are interconnected by marriage or relationship they therefore researching questions because they want to know that it's a bona fide operation and so the IRS 501(c)(3) the United States is a process you go through with the federal government the United States government corporations are not organized under the federal rules or organize a under the stadium or you're going to operate and so you have a state Corporation and that Corporation there are all kinds of different classifications of corporations the ones that were typically interested in our nonprofit corporations for the public benefit for religious purposes or things of that time and they are you have to following qualify with the state rules that apply in whatever state jurat typically people can go through the incorporating process with some counsel but can do that at snap that's not real difficult like the IRS for Bible and three C status once you get your organizational status in the state that you're going to functioning and having not valid nonprofit corporation you can do business but you can't issue tax-exempt receipts and that's very important if you're going to have an appeal to donors someone may give you fifty dollars but they're not likely to give you five thousand dollars or some large some if they don't get a corresponding tax deduction for event on the tax bracket of the donor that means in effect of benefit back to them both fifteen hundred and two thousand dollars and that's fairly significant now if you're interested in working within the framework in the seven-day Adventist church in in in ASI we have some things that were interested in an ASI people who come here to our convention and give to our offerings they want to know that they have given to an organization that is on a five responsible and is likely to do what they've agreed to do and so and that it will ultimately go to enhance the benefit of the seven Dennis Church that's our orientation of ASI that we want to make sure that our our membership in our applicants for funding from ASI are right qualified organizations and we require for a applicant to ask CSI for funding to be able a properly organized state nonprofit corporation we act require that they have IRS 501(c) three tax status or if they are out of the US organization that wherever they are it is possible that they have similar status and in their country of origin now we want to know from an ASI perspective that the ministry is not just generally in the do good business but we want to know that they are a or an organization that significantly is supportive of the set of the administered faith ministry we make no apology about that there lots of the things out there but we think that if were you were handling seventy Adventist money we want to make sure that enhances the ultimate work of the church in Seoul in in our review for either membership are for applicant funding we look at their corporations articles of incorporation that's the key document that is the fundamental description of what your organization is all about and your bylaws it tells the organization how to operate were looking for three things were looking for some of earnings statement in your articles of incorporation bylaws that you are doing this good thing whatever it is in support of the seven adventure clear and clean now we get applicants for membership and for funding that don't contain that kind of language and sometimes it's inadvertent or innocent and sometimes very deliberate sometimes some of ministries like to walk on both sides of the fence they like and not be identified in a public way is that they are seventy because they want they want to raise money for bathroom from the Baptist urban which is all okay but it isn't okay if you're wanting to be a part of our organization so we want to clear and clean lead essay in your articles and bylaws whatever it is googling things were going to do is all done in support of the ministry message of the second Adventist church is after we say then the people who were involved in a ministry are really important now when you create when you create a corporation it's an interesting thing you are actually creating from the law 's perspective a new person you're giving birth to a organization that has legal status and the US Supreme Court very recently issued a very controversial ruling that they have the same status as rights of a supporting political activity and so forth is an individual and they can't be muzzled and so cool runs a corporation becomes a very important thing and so we say this if you're going to be an ASI member or an ASI applicant performing we want to know are all of your officers and all of your directors required the members of the seven batters and regular church in regular family we make no apology about that either because we know whoever runs an organization controls the organization and if they are not committed to the same crews that we are that's okay with us but you can't plan our game we say that you in order to be involved in ASI that your your officers and directors need to be members and regular standing assembly administers and so we say that out loud upfronts and the last thing that we are interested in is that in the event that you dissolve your organization and organizations sometimes have a life expectancy like people they they they draw are strong there prospers and made a begin there Wayne and weaken and die and like people sometimes a guy with lots assets and we want to know is the event that this organizations ceases to be able to function the people had the dreamer gone but they have the valuable piece of land over the corner or the shopping center Walmart wants to come in it's worth a million or they have other assets and we say we want the assets of the organization upon the dissolution the goal to a Seventh-day Adventist owner controlled organization now it can either be to their organized set of the administered for another way Seventh-day Adventist ministry that we want we want to make sure that the that the fund 's goal back into a ministry and purpose that would support the seventh at the church and so we require that the dissolution clause in the event that you have to cease to do business that that that the primary of a organization that gets those resources after the payment of all your bills and debts those back to be used to enhance the sender is we have another concern and we've seen some examples recently that are kind of troubling rocks one is that sometimes the organization as its main form either through copying someone else's work and it just inadvertent or through design sometimes that people create a corporation that is not a supporting ministry the Seventh-day Adventist church but it is a church it becomes a church the organization and we don't we don't admit that kind of organization and membership in ASI because ASIS and composed of businesses and organizations that function in support of the Seventh-day Adventist church as a supporting ministry and so we are interested to make sure that the corporate descriptions that are in the articles of incorporation particular bylaws are supportive of the church but are not church you if you'll understand what I mean and sometimes it's an easy thing and that the state doesn't really care it is a work in a form that the the people who believe in you may describe all the Seventh-day Adventist beliefs in your organization it is necessary by the way and that you are going to do always the things and then we'll be able to ordain our own workers and to discipline our own members and create other churches in concrete were not interested now that would disqualify you from the other I caution that I'm I for more aware and sensitive to is a tendency of people to say well it's a whole lot easier set of happiness Board of Directors are five people in seven people were eleven people and getting them together my husband and I we think alike would just happen to us and our cousin who never come to the meetings and will just run ourselves what were really interested in is having a bona fide Board of Directors and has the benefit a multitude of counselors because I love that there is wisdom and strength and so we want to see a Board of Directors it's real that's an actual organization that because it will enhance and increase your likelihood of success and that you'll be able to conduct a viable ministry you have other people helping you stay on course directors and directors are the group of people within an organization of corporate organization to have the ultimate responsibility for the control of the other organization the ministry yes ultimately the question was can I speak to the exposure that directors would have in a 501(c)(3) corporation let me say this as I said a moment ago in the creation of a corporation you have created a new and different body separate from the individual members who make up that organization the leadership that our unit has its own set of rights its own set of responsibilities generally speaking the activities of a corporation immunizes or keeps you free from liability for the activities of the Corporation unless there's fraught unless there is a failure on the part of the directors to exercise due diligence in in in addressing themselves to the issues before and are given deliberately ignorant of the misconduct of people in the organization now that the law doesn't the law doesn't say that directors have to be perfect in their judgment in other words if you're faced with this problem in the director say we have this problem before us and they explore the nature that problem and consider all of the issues and they make judgment day over here and it turns out ultimately to be wrong and someone is harmed by that wrong decision the person is harmed by that wrong decision would probably not prevail against the directors for personal liability if they went through the process of looking at the problem considering all of them aspects of the problem and made an intelligent decision even though wrong but if they have this problem out here and they ignore and don't do anything to analyze the problem and come to a decision a mandate someone is harmed by it and they have not gone through the due process arrangement there could be liability that follows now the 501(c)(3) aspect of it doesn't change that significantly they are the the except in this way that you have an organization fails to carry out the purposes for which it was given tax-exempt status and instead of running a ministry there are gambling casino or they do some other erotic car marsh and a loser or lottery and it whatever they get away from their purposes the tax-exempt status of the organization will be withdrawn and they may retroactively withdraw the tax-exempt status so that the donors who made contributions to the organizations would be subject to audit and an penalty for having donated to her organization that was found to be inappropriate and so that kind of penalties and fallen improperly run 501(c)(3) organization the question is to try our raises is it would be easier and starting ministry to just operate under the auspices of the church let me if a church will in effect cover your ministry that's a real act of grace and exposure on behalf of the church and so if they'll do what they probably won't do it for long because of this if if so one makes a donation to Harvard Hills and says I give the harbor he appears five thousand dark dollars Harbor Hills you'll pass it on to the Indian reservation for who are you from the loss perspective if I give you five thousand dollars to Harvard fields it then becomes their responsibility to make sure that the receipt of that money and the use that money carries out their corporate taxes and purposes with manner not include helping the Indians for food sold in if a church in fast donations and passes them on to you for your use they are exposed and made it if you don't want to write in Eugene Oregon made you don't cheat you make mistakes and maybe you get sicker you get this interest and the money is somehow inappropriately used the church is status and any other nonprofit organization that passes through money SQL to another exact organization is at risk for that and it's that the quicker that you stand on your feet and a half year old who qualifications your own responsibility the better off you'll be Mister Steve thank you appreciate that in when I have a question about what's happening in in this realm I always call here and I say Harold help me I need some help were doing this and Harold and I worked together on a number of different issues related to ministries and we found some pretty sticky situation so were not talking to from the perspective of an experienced presenter yes no we don't know we don't the three areas of interest it that I indicated to you are very easily inserted in the other boilerplate things when it in the article it will say the corporate purpose of this organization targeting business is business and we suggest to you to add this language all in support of seventy and is church its message and ministry gave been in your your BIOS will say that the qualifications for the officers and directors of this corporation are in a list them and we say and shall be members and Ray understanding the seven evidence church and then at the end of the year your articles of incorporation or bylaws or be a dissolution clause it says in the event that this organization ceases to function in all of his bills wind up its affairs and and give the money to a tax exempt organization and we say add on that is owned or controlled by the Seventh-day Adventist church it's very simple yes that's an interesting question I don't know whether you your question is stimulated by the fact that it is a Montana the corporate soul who is interested in ASI membership I as a of my career was a trial lawyer and I sued this Catholic Church one time for an automobile accident arising out of a priest driving a truck that struck my client struck and I found out what a corporate soul was the corporate soul is a organization recognize at least in California and perhaps elsewhere that allows a corporation to function as a nonprofit with corporate soul meaning one director one person and if the question is what we think of that we think it lacks the kind of base that every ministry ought to have been an abundance of qualified in and interested counselors and we probably would not approve that because it lacks the NASA 's what we think is a necessary need for counselors to assist its legal and it's okay as far as the state is concerned but we want to make sure that an organization is not the private domain of a single person or single-family but rather really reflects the support of other interested people I was talking with someone this morning in fact this concern was what if I start a corporate ration and I get a Board of Directors and that I don't like what they say well my response was that's what you should do is to start a corporation and get a Board of Directors and you might not like everything they say but they are holding you accountable and is true that there are there have been in the history of scene board members who have been not giving the best counsel and are steering in the right direction it tends to be some friction on the board but eventually the situations will clear themselves up a preponderance of members of the board will decide how to handle those things and so all of us need accountability we need structure and we need yes to pray and seek wisdom from God but it also is very true that accountability and structure are good for a ministry I will tell you how reveals Academy over the years we've had some really good board members who held as accountable and their sometimes a pain but when they phone you accountable you know that you have to do a certain thing in each of it bored me that better be done and is not a bad thing it's just that you didn't have time to do it the previous session in and you may get raked over the coals this time he decided I no longer get that done because that person commented and asked that question again that I get that done is not as bad patients are overwhelmed with ministry and you don't always get the things done in so getting a good solid board is a whole other topic we could spend a whole seminar just talking about boards of directors and how to properly select and instruct them on monitoring and train and educate news books and volumes written about that one topic but when I put cover on it they were discovered to have you probably do need a Board of Directors if you want to be your soulless corporation you can do that so Corporation average called their but it's probably not benefited ASI membership and that's one reason we want to talk to this group of people who are interested in doing ministry is to say do it right now if you want to think about ASI Ministry of membership eventually they better created this thing straightened out now their corporations right now whose boards are in session meeting today but in this process that have applied for ASI membership for funding and we rejected them and now they're going back to straightening out paperwork it would've been much easier to do right the first time because they don't want the purpose is to align with the administration they do want not to be a church of their own and they do want these bangs but somehow they got a cycle and things were done wrong and it's just hard to get them corrected once there been done wrong and so it's better to take the Council and the front end and you'll find many divergent views today what we're presenting today is basically the ideas of ministry and ministry development that will help you to be in harmony with the purposes and intents of ASI and how ASI would like to see its ministries develop into business and many other ways to do it and were not against necessarily those ways that we just think this is the way ASI would like to partner with ministries have it on a strong foundation good solid boards and counselors and and and 501(c)(3) organizations that are held accountable and actually do business in the correct way with the state and art are doing the things they should do tween the state and federal government reports and other things that need to happen so I'll list the sake of an sorry yes this man are there disadvantages to seven Venice Christians having 501(c)(3) 's note that's a question that could be debated for a long time and the question I would ask is this if you're not going to be recognized in that way how are you going to do business as a ministry is true that you could have property put in your own name and do business and do ministry with property in your own name best for the people who give you money to you personally so that you can do ministry but in terms of accountability in terms of structure that's not probably the best plan if you're going to be in operation as a ministry doing real business at a level that we would say is about just buying a few groceries then it probably needs to be structured as a 501(c)(3) because that's what our government recognizes are the pitfalls and assist them probably so but there seems to be more benefits than there are pitfalls according to what I would say be my personal evaluation of when I see the options are ministry at Harvard his Academy could not exist in the way that it does know we could exist as a for-profit corporation it's true we could change in August and is that of the not-for-profit were not for profit was to make some money at this I know that would really would make much money at it but we certainly would have the potential to be a negative thing for a number of people who donate to our ministry the laws of land are structured to allow this and in my opinion all of God 's work should use that to its maximum adventure colossal landlubbers use it for maximum advantage yes okay thank you for that comment is Henry Peterson some of the rest you can handle be recorded on our our system is she saying that from her experience there is definitely some advantages to the nonprofit it has the way smooth report on certain issues that a for-profit organization in a struggle with more when you're dealing with the government you dealing with certain things need to happen is certain of plans are trying to carry out then nurse certain advantages to having the 501(c)(3) status and you say we are in fact an official 501(c)(3) recognized organization and the local governments at all okay you're doing nonprofit work for the benefit of the community let us assist you in getting this started over here you need a piece of property cleared through the zoning or whatever you need and you have that official status and then it makes since the road a little smoother as your interacting with local governments etc. so there are some definite advantages to that any questions at this point that need to be addressed I just have some summary yesterday ASI is not in the insurance business unfortunately for instances some degree here we might say that being a good thing to do does offer some kind of blanket insurance for all the ministries but we don't do that we don't act as a clearinghouse for that sort of thing are our our members are members and we have certain services that we offer but that's not one of the service since okay the me speak to that I think I understand your question the question was if you have in your ministry and you want to bring someone to assist you from outside the country and you need to issue in our one visa okay and your public benefit ministry versus a religious ministry this is another whole area where we could spend probably three seminars just talking about they are one piece and what that means and how to relate to it I'm simply going to tell you it's a very complex issue and probably you're not going to get an answer from me and so I can tell you that ASI saw struggled with this to a degree on how if there's any thing they could do to assist the ministries in some sort of relationships with the charts in this sort of thing and we don't have any answers yet were still paging through some of those things looking at options and how that might work but it's evident that the whole nature of this visa process is become so complex as promised so many issues that I say God bless you as you attempt to do those things we do then and Arbor Hills Academy and we fight those battles in a spin a certain way we have a way that we do it but we don't guarantee any success in and we needed we say it's it it's the best way or that it always works it just sometimes you get approval sometimes you don't and it's a complex issue of yes men okay letter determination and ten twenty three form Harold can you shed any light on this one the one that corporate when a corporation is properly filed within a state may issue a a certificate of existence if you will for their organization than the process that you go through to get your tax exempt 501(c)(3) status is entirely separate without IRS when they have made a determination are looking to let adequately they won't tell you that we're happy to report to you that you have been approved and that you have tax exempt status and the donors and donations can be a receipt can be issued for tax credit until you have that letter you don't have what you need well with we went through the process for our organization I'm involved with and it took about a year and it's not easy in the forms are voluminous and it's a it's an expensive searching process and the balance is that it had it's a good thing frankly that the government is so careful because it helps screen out inappropriate organizations from receiving tax benefit and people being scammed and so it's a burden but it's it's not without some benefit okay thank you Harold for sharing your wisdom with us yes ASI is an organization exists within the structure of the North American division and our executive secretary sits in the office in his general conference headquarters we try to stay in tune with issues that may affect our ministries but there are always things out there that could bite you from the side and you wouldn't be watching as just another issue that in our society today deserves some attention by every organization that functions because it is a real issue and are things being done to affect the legal status of organizations that are valid organizations just because they have a certain stand on a certain topic and is true and and I don't know that we have any answers but we are young we try to stay aware of issues like that and Andrew we can tell it at least be aware of them so we can give some level of counsel to organizations to but if you can't stand in the other place as a Seventh-day Adventist then to say no this is not in harmony with biblical principles and so there's no other place we can stand the seventh and is meant to stand where we stand and you might say someday the tips of the fall we know that things happen as a result of where we stand less just that touch on this one last time to finish up here and grab time is is time expired I think it has him not having my cock your hand up okay we're we're at the end of our time but join ASI attend conventions and conferences network and learn you can't join ASI as a ministry until you've been in business for a year and have two employees that sort of thing or two members participating with you so won't I do is visit training now so that you know how to do it the right way so that when it comes time for you to join ASI will be an easy process but so you may not qualify right now except maybe your a lawyer or doctor or something else it already has a membership of ASI business person God is leading you to do ministry now instead of business and you already have an ASI membership at some point you may want to transition that membership under your ministry name and forget to membership so that your membership as a business and as a ministry and why is that because the exhibit hall over here we allow people to exhibit we have a certain level of confidence that we generate while allowing people to come in we say these people have passed muster they exhibit and retweet we believe in them we've seen their paperwork okay and people walking around and taking an interest in a ministry know that if they haven't passed that master by just their business they've been a member and but yet they bring in now their ministry they begin to exhibit that we have seen the paperwork we can speak on their behalf so were tightening up on that as the days go by and years go by were slowly typing that up and we want the ministries to show their hand as it were just a paperwork and make sure that were in harmony on everything and then we bless them to me in the exhibit hall people can walk around some level of confidence that ASI has done some good village Joseph and the people there deserve to be there and to be funded and have potentially some of your contributions in their ministry okay thank you for coming today I got bless you and maybe less your ministry and your focus on developing a strong and grown in a medium with my audio is poorly and not having maintenance services in industry you would like to learn more and I find a coming out and I is the more is a free online service please visit www. nonbeliever is not


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